I have played against ETron a bunch at home, MrDude, against my primary play partner, and have a positive win rate so far. All is Dust (or an unanswered Chalice on 3) is a game loss for us for sure. Chalice on 1 is also vey good. But other than that I feel pretty good about the match.
My list is a little different from yours. I have Thoughtseize #4 in the board, which is very good in the match. I have 2x Wall of Omens main, which are great against Matter Reshaper and can also chump a Seer or Smasher to preserve a walker for a crucial turn. I also have a lower curve, with no 5-drops and fewer 4-drops, so I can get my deck's game plan online a little faster.
Not sure if those things would help, but I will say that I don't feel a need for Kor Firewalker. With 4x Trials plus two Walls and one Brutality in the main, my Burn match is pretty good without any dedicated hate.
Bitterblossom has continuously been one of the strongest cards in the deck. So I have moved up to 4 copies and supplemented this with 2 sorins. This list feels the strongest of the iterations so far and my last league went 4-1 losing only to titanshift. I've cut all the card draw, apparently it isn't needed with value engines such as blossom and walkers in the deck.
The curve of discard --> blossom --> walker --> walker has been strong against almost every opposing deck.
I personally don't like the sorins as a card very much, but their role of lifegain + fast clock with blossom/souls tokens has given them a place to stay so far. The lifegain has been so relevant that even though I lost the titanshift matchup I actually won game 1 because sorin and lingering souls got me up to 38 life and scapeshift was unable to kill me.
I have also swapped my field of ruins into tec edges to hedge my tron matchups more and because with 4 drops being the upper limit it gives me a benefit during flooding out.
TL:DR Version -- My Opinions
23 lands = 4 drop maximum CMC
Bitterblossom must be at least 2 copies
Card draw doesn't seem neccessary
2-2 tonight, couple of fetches swapped in for the Caves and Chapel.
R1, 2-0 vs. Jeskai Geist: Won the roll and then rode Spirits and Faeries to victory in both games.
R2, 2-0 vs. Jund: Lost the roll. In G1 I smacked him around with some Spirits and then cleared the board with Damnation to swing in with Gids for the win. In G2 he made a tactical error and left me with a RiP in hand after taking a BB with his opening disruption; that RiP ended up neutering all 4 Goyfs to permanent 0/1 status throughout the game.
R3, 1-2 vs. Grixis Midrange: Won the roll and G1 but lost G2 & G3 to one of my shop's better players, whom I've beat several times with this deck over the past month. Pia and Kiran Nalaar out valued me as my opponent maxed out on Countersquall draws, backed up by Izzet Staticaster. I was missing the Wraths I took out after G1, after dying to Mom and Dad beats.
R4, 0-2 vs. Eldrazi Tron: I won the roll and IoK'ed his Map away, seeing him on two Tron lands, but leaving him a Chalice. Naturally he topdecks a Map on his opening draw. It was trivial for him to run me over after that, in part because I punted by discarding a much-needed Wrath to Lili too early in the game. In G2 an early Chalice stranded a total of 5 cards in my hand, by the final turn, and he countered my Damnation with Warping Wail. In this match he also drew two Ratchet Bombs, and blind-Needled Ally on T1, which was in my opening hand, and was the only walker I would see in the match. So, yeah. Tron did Tron things and my interaction was very bad.
Looking forward to Friday and this weekend at the GP side events. Will write up.
All of your lists seem to have one thing that bothers me, you play 6-8 token generators (Souls, BB) as well as 2-3 mainboard sweepers, in the same deck. to me this feels counterintuitive, to flood the board and then draw wrath spells. Have such issues come up? Or does it seem to work out regardless. I like the idea of running no sweepers with the full 4 Lingering Souls and 4 Bitterblossom. Then go heavy with Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Sorin, Solemn Visitor , and Elspeth, Sun's Champion as ways to facilitate a token plan. Plus, Gideon of the Trials can make Bitterblossom's lifeloss negligible.
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Nah, you need the sweepers, minimum of three, I reckon. Both token generators have resistance to sweeper effects (as, obviously, do the planeswalkers and Heart, too). The second half of Souls can hang around in the yard until after the sweeper, and BB just keeps pumping out the Faeries post board-clear too. But the real fun is in sweeping in main phase one and then activating one or more large threats for the same turn's combat phase. It's completely possible to swing for 8 on T4 on an empty board, or for 13 on T5.
Tokens are a plan B in this deck, the way I see it; they mainly help protect the walkers. Gideon and Lili are plan A. Sorin, Solemn Visitor is a card I've been considering, but unlike the other cards (except Heart) it is very bad on an empty board by itself. Still, his synergy with BB and Souls might make him worth it.
Well haven't posted recently, had a whole bunch of middling results for a few weeks. Also I have bought into 5C Humans and have been having fun stepping away from my midrange roots for a bit.
Anyway my past six results were 2-2, 2-2, 2-2, 2-2, 0-3 (drop), 4-0. In the very first of those matches I got beat up as bad as I hope it ever happens, by a kid with his first Modern deck, at his first Modern event, on U-Tron, who mulled to 4, drew natural Tron on T4 off DESPITE my T2 Ghost Quarter to prevent it, and then killed me with a Spine of Ish Sah/Trading Post/Academy Ruins lock. Wow, was I salty about that one. But, variance is a thing, works both ways, that's the game we play, yadda yadda. (Kid had no sideboard.)
In the first two tournaments I was back to 2x Heart of Kiran, but I'm now convinced that is wrong, since it needs a walker to crew it. I still like one though.
I was at the GP Oklahoma City this weekend. I went 4-4 drop.
In retrospect I still feel like the deck is very powerful. I got really screwed in the 8th round giving me my 4th loss. He was playing Humans (was giddy with glee when I seen what he was playing) and I got stuck on 3 lands with 2 Damnation in my hand in the 3rd game. Even the guy I played said "I have no business beating that deck". I agree sir... I agree...
Round 1: 0-2 vs Lantern control. Not much to say here. Its Lantern control and it sucks. Game 2: I brought in the 1 Collective Brutality 1 Disenchant 1 Anguished Unmaking 1 Oblivion Ring, and opening hand he Thoughtseize one out of my hand, then Lantern came down and he was able to shread the rest off my deck the rest of the game. Hate that deck.
Round 2: 2-1 vs Burn: We have a great match up vs Burn. Kill any of there little dudes, then use Gideon of the Trils to tick up 1 time making him 4 counters. SO they need to use 2 burn spells on it. Or you just win. And if they do use 2 burn spells to kill him, then you are given 2 turns it feels like to come back in the match. I had no problems. Good match up.
Round 3: 2-0 Jund: This was another good game for us. We can kill any of there treats even if they do Thoughtseize us. Was a easy round.
Round 4: 2-0 vs Burn: Same as round 2. Easy stuff.
Round 5: 0-1-1 vs. GW Value town: This was just grindy match that seemed like no end. He had the Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Ramunap Excavator, Courser of Kruphix, combo on me both games. I could Wrath of God and he god stuff back with CC and the grind started again. Was really long match.
Round 6: 0-2 vs Blue/Black Faeries: I had never played agenst Faeries before. This was odd and even after a Inquisition of Kozilek he still got out Bitterblossom turn 2 both games and he had the counters in Remand and some flash faeries that could counter, and he out lasted me.
Round 7: 2-0 vs. Eldrazi Tron: This was the most wierd match of the night. I normal have a bad match vs E. Tron. BUT!... The man that was my opponent, came to the table MAD! Like PISSED OFF! MADDDDD!!!! I dont know what happend, I got to the table early and was just talking with the guys around and we was joking and laughing, you know just having fun. When he got there I asked "Hi how are you?" He replyed "Not good" In a very angry tone.
While he got setup I talked with the guys around and then he still looked so mad when he sat down I said "Hey man, you okay?" he said "no not at all" after that I just left him alone.
As for the match every thing went my way, nothing he did mattered much. I won both games kind of easy witch is very weird for me vs this deck.
After we was done and packing up out stuff he just started cursing and very loud about being angry over losing and "How once I would like to make a God Damn day two, and his ******* deck to work just once." as he was walking away. Super odd.
Round 8: vs Humans: Game one goes as you would think, I killed every thing. He was surprised by a main deck Damnation and I just rolled him over.
2nd game I had a clunky hand he got the PERFECT hand and he won. no big deal. 3rd game, I had some removal, 1 Swamp, 1 Godless Shine, and 1 Damnation, and 1 Gideon of the Trials. All I had to do was draw land and win......
I drew a Tectonic Edge and then never seen another land the rest of the game. I was able to hold him off for turn with Fatal Push and Patch to Exile, but he kept come back with more dudes. I even drew the 2nd Damnation. But no land to cast it. Before the last turn for him to win he cast a Kitesail Freebooter and seen my hand and was in shock. "Oh man now I see whats going on, I thought you was trying to slow roll me" No sir... my deck just didn't want to work all of a sudden. After the match he said "sorry man, I had no business beating that deck".
That's the way magic goes some times. That's my report. I still think the deck is really good. There is something here in this type of deck. I know I don't have the best 75 cards. But something to work off of and make better.
I have been in the three-lands-so-no-Wrath-effect boat SO many times. Makes me think maybe a copy or two of [c[Bontu's Last Reckoning[/c] might fit the bill better.
This is a list I'm running that I'm testing. I'm trying Weathered Wayfarer in these controlling list where its pretty much the only nontoken creature to grab Shrine to Nyx for mana ramp. Since we have a bunch of different lands to gain advantage.
Haven't played this deck much over the past couple of months but I'm not ready to write to off yet. With that in mind, I found an old CFB article that covers the difficulty of resolving a 4 CMC Wrath effect against fast go-wide aggro in time to prevent an ignominious death:
This article absolutely cements my sense that there is absolutely zero space for big Elspeth, and probably no room for big Gideon or Ob Nix, in this deck. The article is very definitely worth a read and I wish I'd stumbled onto this information a long time ago. The money quote: “Six mana is way more than five... maybe two mana more.”
Decided to build this deck for GP Santa Clara. Played six scheduled events and about six turbo events (1 match each). The weekend was a blur, so I only have minimal notes. Here's my list:
Match 1: Ad Nauseam
Game 1 - He mulled to five and my discard knocked him off balance until the Gideons killed him.
Game 2 - He combos out.
Game 3 - He gets laboratory maniac and "wins." I realized I had actually won the game after because I had a Gideon of the Trials with an emblem and he couldn't have won with maniac. Oh well :/
1-2
Match 2: Death's Shadow
I don't remember either game, but it was a one-sided affair in my favor. This probably is our best match-up. 2-0
Match 3: Storm
Game 1 - He mulls and I remove his hand with discard. A timely LOTV ultimate keeps him from the lands he needs to past in flames from his graveyard. He dies to a Gideon.
Game 2 - My removal kills off all of his creatures. He gets a blood moon into play, but surgical extraction on his grapeshot is the game. He concedes because he didn't side in empty the warrens after seeing me discard mass removal game 1.
2-0
Turbo Game 1: Burn
Easy match up as I drew a collective brutality and a gideon of the trials both games. 2-0
Turbo Game 2: Affinity
Game 1 - my spot removal holds the line until I surprise her with a wrath. That wins me the game.
Game 2 - Blood moon prevents me from playing magic.
Game 3 - A turn 2 stony silence and a wrath effect are enough to win the match.
2-1.
Modern 2:
Match 1: Affinity
Game 1 - A one-sided affair with all my removal.
Game 2- He drops a blood moon. I fetch for a plains in response, but draw 3 fatal pushes. I die shortly after.
Game 3 - I keep a risky one land hand with 3 paths, 1 push, and a stony silence. I never draw my second land.
1-2
Match 2: Bye
Match 3: My opponent and I split so that we can play in the next event.
Modern 3:
Match 1: Eldrazi and Taxes
Game 1 - Bitterblossom tokens overwhelm him.
Game 2 - His mana denial plan shuts me down.
Game 3 - We play a long game of attrition as my removal slowly withes his creatures away until my planeswalkers give me the advantage.
2-1
Match 2: Tropical Merfolk
Game 1 - He's flooded for a few turns, allowing me to play 3 'walkers and take control of the game.
Game 2 - A timely spreading seas and island walking lord wins him the game.
Game 3 - Spot and mass removal prevent him from getting the critical mass of fish people he needed to win. I keep a ghost quarter up
the whole game to prevent spreading seas from being a factor.
2-1
Match 3: My opponent and I split so I can play the next event.
Modern 4
Match 1: Affinity
She's not running blood moon and I don't have mana issues. The games were super easy as a result. 2-0
Match 2: Eldrazi Tron
Game 1: He mulls to five, but he still has a chalice on one. Lucky for me, I kept a hand with a Gideon of the Trials and a Liliana. Still, he gets enough
Eldrazi on the board that he gets me down to five. He's at 8. I decline to block with any of my spirit tokens. I draw a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. I pop him for his anthem emblem and win.
Game 2: Chalices and All is Dust beat me down.
Game 3: Despite an All is Dust, I play enough creatures on the board to win. A couple of wrath effects keep his eldrazi army at bay (drawing two cards from two dead thought-knot seers certainty helps!)
2-1
Match 3: We split.
Turbo Game 3: Kiki-Cord
Game 1 - This is a long war of attrition, but he's not prepared for a wrath game 1.
Game 2 - Orzhov Pontiff kills my spirit tokens and then his creatures kill me.
Game 3 - I path his Kiki-Jiki when he tries to combo out and Gideon my way to victory.
2-1
Turbo Game 4: Esper Gifts with Thopter Foundry Combo
Game 1 - He combos out.
Game 2/Game 3 - Rest in peace stalls his deck long enough for my deck to finish him.
Modern 5:
Match 1: Eldrazi Tron
I lose terribly despite an easy game 1 because he mulls to five. 1-2.
Match 2: G/B Rock
Game 1: Lingering souls is really good against G/B decks.
Game 2: A timely night of souls betrayal cripples my token army.
Game 3: Nissa, Vital Force emblem lets him draw 20 cards and I'm buried by his card advantage.
1-2
Match 3: Jund
Both games were long wars of attrition, but I have more removal for his creatures than he has for my 'walkers. He make's a mistake in sacrificing his LOTV to use her ultimate instead ticking up to 7 to keep her in play. I go from 8 to 4 lands, but the deck only needs 4 lands to function.
2-0
Modern 6:
Match 1: Simic Goodstuff
He looked like he wandered in from an EDH game, with prophet of kruphix and venser in his deck. It was odd. 2-1.
Match 2: Collected Company
He stomped me, as collected company is really good against mass removal, as are selfless spirits after boarding. 0-2.
Turbo Game 6: Tropical Merfolk
He's unprepared for all the removal I have. As long as they don't have too many spreading seas early, this feels like an easy matchup. 2-0.
Bontu's last reckoning was worth it as long as the opponent didn't see it coming (most game 1s). If they prepare for it, the drawback can hurt us badly. I think the cmc of 3 instead of 4 is very useful, but the drawback requires more careful play than a 4 cmc wrath would. Tombstalker was a way of avoiding pithing needles and token hosers, but it never felt necessary. I consider it a flex spot for alternative finishers like Heart of Kiran.
The only matchup where the deck really struggled was Eldrazi Tron. Death's Shadow, Jund, Storm, Tropical Merfolk and Affinity are all favorable matchups (minus the blood moons). I think practice against Collected Company might improve the match up, so it might not be as hopeless as it feels at first. Overall, the deck did very well and the format was very diverse. I won a foil tarmogoyf and a booster box of Hour of Devastation, so the deck is worth it in GP side events at least
Hey, awesome, thanks for posting! Glad someone's keeping the dream alive (and testing Bontu's). I've been on 5C Humans for a little while but am thinking about coming bak to my Orzhov roots... I appreciate your perspective. Did you ever find GQ a problem for WW or BB, at 4 copies?
Hey, awesome, thanks for posting! Glad someone's keeping the dream alive (and testing Bontu's). I've been on 5C Humans for a little while but am thinking about coming bak to my Orzhov roots... I appreciate your perspective. Did you ever find GQ a problem for WW or BB, at 4 copies?
Nah, the color balance of the deck felt right. The only mana troubles I had were due to mana screw or mana flood from variance.
I think this deck is very well set up to take advantage of mass removal, even mass removal with a drawback like Bontu's. For a wrath to be effective, it has to generate card advantage, i.e. one wrath has to take out at least two creatures. Bontu complicates things since it stalls our tempo for a turn. Its cheaper to cast, but its drawback means that we might want to spend a few turns to properly set it up. So even though it costs three, we're incentivized to wait beyond turn three to actually pull the trigger.
To obtain card advantage from Bontu, we either need a permanent that can act as a spell even when our lands are tapped or we need the opponent to overextend so badly that the card advantage generated by casting Bontu is overpowering. The former is created by our planeswalkers - even when we're tapped for a turn, a Gideon or a Liliana in play can still act as spells even if we can't use the cards in our hand.
As for the latter, the deck greatly encourages our opponents to overextend: Our discard encourages our opponents to play their best cards or risk losing them. Spot removal, tokens, Gideon of the Trials first ability, and Liliana of the Veil second ability means that our opponents can't just cast one creature and expect it to win the game for them. They have to play at least two creatures to overcome everything we have. And if they do, our mass removal will generate the card advantage required to be game winning cards.
I keep wondering if a card like Hour of Reckoning would be helpful in a deck like this. The CC of 7 seems daunting, but if we have 3 creatures in play you can cast it for Four. If you have four creatures in play you can cast it for 3. So its definitely harder to play, but the upside doesn't sweep your creatures. I've played one and liked it, but I don't think it can be played in large number and needs to be played with other sweepers to keep from being bum rushed.
Hey everyone! Been searching for a thread like this one and really excited to potentially help "keep the dream alive" as @deaddrift put it :). I have played UW Control traditionally, but recently been wanting to create a brew that was different and felt more in development rather than already complete. I think BW are the two strongest colors in modern at the moment between MB and SB and was interested in seeing if I could do a control build off of that. I had recently watched Frank Lapore and Craig Wescoe run through some BW Control/BW Superfriends brews successfully and I'm looking to combine the two ideas w/ a more traditional control feel. Here is my decklist which I've been playing recently:
The deck has less planeswalkers, more in terms of card draw, ways to gain back life loss, and soft/hard counters. I have taken it to my local FNM as well as been playing on MTGO. I have been really pleased thus far with how it's performing and excited to continue to modify it. If you guys have any thoughts/suggestions/questions, I'd be happy to hear them. Hope this thread continues to grow!
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I think the mana tithe, rebuff the wicked, and ixalan's binding, while not useless, are too cute to stick, and dash hopes is just bad in this deck. I think you'd do better with more souls, pushes, and thoughtseizes.
I am planning on trying heart of kiran in a more planeswalker heavy build. I assume people have tried them but I never see them in lists anymore. It just seems too good at preemptively protecting the planeswalkers to not be playing, while simultaneously giving us more speed against decks we can't durdle around with.
I'm looking at replacements for Dash and Rebuff, however Ixalan is surprisingly powerful as an answer to resolved threats, like powerful planeswalkers or combo pieces. For me, it's had a similar effect as Detention sphere. The mana tithe has also been able to do well for me especially in the early turns. I feel like the deck needs some sort of surprise counters, as much of the current meta is a topdeck away from turning the corner. BW just doesn't have that in its arsenal except these cards. Also worried about having too much discard at the cost of more life. Between Lilli and my current suite of discard, I haven't had a hard time getting them off their important cards. It's been more board stability I've needed and a way to stop their powerful topdecks. More push may be one way to help, like you said.
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Tithe is a cool card and I love getting people with it once and siding it out, it is just so low impact and an awful top deck. One way to not lose topdeck wars is to have better topdecks yourself. While TS and IoK aren't great either, they are necessary evils to the deck. dawn charm also just does not seem good here. Your list seems to have too many situationally useful cards that would leave you with too many bad hands. I like collective brutality in those slots and they also help get rid of some of the unnecessary discard spells later for at least some value. 6 discard spells are generally preferred in decks running them. It really is the sweet spot where you'll probably have 1 turn 1 but won't draw a ton of them throughout the game. 5 gives you quite a bit worse chance at one in the opener. I only run 5 in my GDS deck but that deck is packed with draw spells and snapcasters so it was a conscious decision there. Binding just seems way overcosted for a sorcery speed removal spell and the "can't cast with the same name" seems occasionally useful but in no way worth the cost. I'd rather just have runed halo or hero's downfall in that slot.
Been continuing to modify the deck and listening to the helpful advice on the thread. It seems like Bitterblossom has grown in popularity with this deck, however I feel going that route basically makes this a BW token variant, whereas I'm looking to go more the control route. Here is my updated list:
So far the changes have helped dramatically and I'm pleased with testing results. I'll continue to test out and see areas of weaknesses to potentially change moving forward
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Looks a lot more consistent now. Personally I'd go down to 3 boardwipes in the main to fit in another push or path, but other than that I like the list.
So something that has been a huge bane of my existence while testing on MTGO has been the sheer volume of Tron I've been facing. I've roughly played Tron 3/5 of my opponents over the past few weeks. Now this could just be me and an absurd amount of bad luck but it's making me look to better position the deck against it and decks using other powerful land cards. UW control uses Spreading Seas as a four of to great effect. Part of the reason is also the added cantrip but the effect does have the benefit of throwing off the opponent of their land and cutting off a color, especially early game. I'm looking at potentially running Contaminated Ground to similar effect in this deck to make it more controlling in the current meta. It can help hedge against Tron, cut off colors, and take opponents off life points if they need to use it. Especially with the printing of Blood Sun I think this could be an interesting idea. Any thoughts? I plan on testing this week and can let you know how it goes.
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I've been playing this deck since the rules change and I really feel like I'm getting in a good place with it. I keep tweaking cards here and there but I'm pretty settled on most of the core pieces.
Bitterblossom in my opinion is the best card in the deck, just curving BB into Gideon of the Trials is simply too much for most other midrange decks to handle. It's also one of the only 2 drops we have available that lives through a Wrath.
And that's what our deck is best at. We are an AMAZING wrath deck, one of the best in Modern if not the best. We need to maximize our ability to close out the game after a Wrath and Bitterblossom does that better than any other 2 drop we have. It even blocks better than Wall of Omens, and is harder to Kill.
3 of X - Playing BW and our card advantage is all virtual. BB tokens, PW tokens, PW's as removal... we need the draw step to give relevant cards and losing too many to the legendary rule (even after the change ) can cost us games. BB isn't legendary but the 2nd and especially 3rd copy lose value. We do take advantage of the 2nd BB significantly better than a more classic BW tokens deck though.
1 of's - Also due to the legend rule, or that these are cards where though good enough for inclusion the second copy loses SO much value that we can only afford to play one.
Pack Rat is the prime example here, its often just too slow but its such a nice insurance policy that it pulls it weight. Sometimes it's doing and awful Bitterblossom impression as you throw your rats under a Goyf, and other times you rat for 5 turns in a row then rat your opponent to death. Be prepared to side out.
Heart of Kiran can be crewed by Brimaz or Kalitas, even sometimes with summoning sick tokens. It races amazingly which earns it the maindeck slot, HoK into GotT is a nice clock with solid defense. Gets sided out a fair amount too though with basically being a "pump spell". Ofc is the first cut every time Stony Silence is brought in.
Brimaz is one of the weaker cards in the deck, I've thought about swapping him with 3 mana Thalia. He occasionally is very good though, one of the better blockers in our colours on 3 mana.
Sorin, LOI - Surprisingly good. Gaving access to another anthem is very nice, and in stalled games (which happen often) he can often either pump out multiple emblems or ultimate. I assumed originally he'd be worse than a 2nd Solemn Visitor but being able to have both out certainly comes up, as does just buying time to ult. Like I said I was surprised too.
Lili of the Veil - Remember those stalled out games I talked about? Well, this is how we blow them open. She is very rarely terrible in game 1 and she gives you outs to deck that are going to put you into long games (Where you're much more likely to see the 1 of). Things like Lantern Control or Chalice/Moon prison or Enchantress, you end up in a position where you can't kill them and they can't stop Gideon Emblem... LoTV finishes up those games. She certainly gets sided out in a lot of matches as well though.
Other Stuff -
Windbrisk Heights - Card advantage! IMO we activate it easily enough and can certainly use any way to squeeze out extra cards. We have a lot of attacking options. I've certainly chump attacked with a Vent to get a much better card out from under a Windbrisk.
Lili the Last Hope - We don't run enough creatures to play her maindeck, but in any matchup where her +1 kills creatures she is amazing. The whole deck is designed to protect planeswalkers and her ult is a gameender even as a far as ults go.
Wrath Split - I used to play 3 *** to play around Ezuri, but with Humans gaining so much popularity I think its a bit better to play around Meddling Mage.
Anyone else taking a similar approach? I might be taking this to GP Toronto so I've been trying to tune it for the field. I feel like I have game against anything, especially after board. Combined with the free wins you sometimes get off Trials Emblem, I'm pretty convinced this deck is stronger than Oops! All Gideons! the meme would suggest.
I've been playing this deck since the rules change and I really feel like I'm getting in a good place with it. I keep tweaking cards here and there but I'm pretty settled on most of the core pieces.
Bitterblossom in my opinion is the best card in the deck, just curving BB into Gideon of the Trials is simply too much for most other midrange decks to handle. It's also one of the only 2 drops we have available that lives through a Wrath.
And that's what our deck is best at. We are an AMAZING wrath deck, one of the best in Modern if not the best. We need to maximize our ability to close out the game after a Wrath and Bitterblossom does that better than any other 2 drop we have. It even blocks better than Wall of Omens, and is harder to Kill.
3 of X - Playing BW and our card advantage is all virtual. BB tokens, PW tokens, PW's as removal... we need the draw step to give relevant cards and losing too many to the legendary rule (even after the change ) can cost us games. BB isn't legendary but the 2nd and especially 3rd copy lose value. We do take advantage of the 2nd BB significantly better than a more classic BW tokens deck though.
1 of's - Also due to the legend rule, or that these are cards where though good enough for inclusion the second copy loses SO much value that we can only afford to play one.
Pack Rat is the prime example here, its often just too slow but its such a nice insurance policy that it pulls it weight. Sometimes it's doing and awful Bitterblossom impression as you throw your rats under a Goyf, and other times you rat for 5 turns in a row then rat your opponent to death. Be prepared to side out.
Heart of Kiran can be crewed by Brimaz or Kalitas, even sometimes with summoning sick tokens. It races amazingly which earns it the maindeck slot, HoK into GotT is a nice clock with solid defense. Gets sided out a fair amount too though with basically being a "pump spell". Ofc is the first cut every time Stony Silence is brought in.
Brimaz is one of the weaker cards in the deck, I've thought about swapping him with 3 mana Thalia. He occasionally is very good though, one of the better blockers in our colours on 3 mana.
Sorin, LOI - Surprisingly good. Gaving access to another anthem is very nice, and in stalled games (which happen often) he can often either pump out multiple emblems or ultimate. I assumed originally he'd be worse than a 2nd Solemn Visitor but being able to have both out certainly comes up, as does just buying time to ult. Like I said I was surprised too.
Lili of the Veil - Remember those stalled out games I talked about? Well, this is how we blow them open. She is very rarely terrible in game 1 and she gives you outs to deck that are going to put you into long games (Where you're much more likely to see the 1 of). Things like Lantern Control or Chalice/Moon prison or Enchantress, you end up in a position where you can't kill them and they can't stop Gideon Emblem... LoTV finishes up those games. She certainly gets sided out in a lot of matches as well though.
Other Stuff -
Windbrisk Heights - Card advantage! IMO we activate it easily enough and can certainly use any way to squeeze out extra cards. We have a lot of attacking options. I've certainly chump attacked with a Vent to get a much better card out from under a Windbrisk.
Lili the Last Hope - We don't run enough creatures to play her maindeck, but in any matchup where her +1 kills creatures she is amazing. The whole deck is designed to protect planeswalkers and her ult is a gameender even as a far as ults go.
Wrath Split - I used to play 3 *** to play around Ezuri, but with Humans gaining so much popularity I think its a bit better to play around Meddling Mage.
Anyone else taking a similar approach? I might be taking this to GP Toronto so I've been trying to tune it for the field. I feel like I have game against anything, especially after board. Combined with the free wins you sometimes get off Trials Emblem, I'm pretty convinced this deck is stronger than Oops! All Gideons! the meme would suggest.
I like your deck a lot. I play something similar, but without so many Gideons and I actually like your Gideon plan a lot. I am not sold 100% on your creatures being main deck material, but I like all of them.
I like Pack Rat. I think it helps with tossing cards late that aren't as good IE discard spells or removal that would otherwise just sit in your hand. Its usually really slow, but it can win games especially against decks with lots of removal. I run one main.
Auriok Champion, I run two in my sideboard. They are good versus burn. Good verses Death's Shadow and that's enough to include them. I'm not sure they are good enough main deck, but I think they are very strong. You maybe right to run one main and another one or even two in the sideboard is not out of the question.
Brimaz and Kalitas are okay... I wish they survived Wrath... If I could think of a good creature that did I'd recommend that. They both make tokens and help you go wide, but both can die. I like adding these types of creatures after sideboarding so that my opponent has sided out his targeted removal.
I really like Intangible Virtue as a one or two of in the deck. You have enough token generators, and its the Vigilance that I think really is awesome. Being able to attack with your mostly flying tokens and then still block on the back swing can be back breaking. For this reason, I think the second Intangible Virtue is worth less than the first by a big margin and I'm happy to only run one or two even though it doubles my clock in most cases.
I'm not sold on Heart of Kiran. Like you said its mostly a pump spell and when its dead because you can't crew it, that hurts. Copter and Harvester can both be crewed by Souls tokens. Copter is card selection. Both work really well with Bitterblossom since the new token has summoning sickness. But it maybe that Kiran is great defense for Planeswalkers.
What about one Legion's Landing? You should be able to flip it routinely enough, once you do its pseudo card advantage as if you don't have anything else you can make the token. Lands are hard to deal with. Its legendary so with one it doesn't sit in your hand, but this can protect Planeswalkers pretty well.
I totally agree with the Wrath split, almost no difference so its better that Humans can't name it with Meddling Mage.
I would look at Secure the Wastes or Rise of the Hobgoblins. These are nice mana sinks late in the game. Secure is good early just to protect a Planeswalker or emergency put a blocker out there for Death Shadow. I like my one copy of Rise because I have a White Pips matter subtheme with Nythos in my Wb deck. I also run Weathered Wayfarer to find the lands I really want. But I'm not generating the super mana that some Nythos decks generate, it just sometimes is a good ramp. Vault of the Archangel is very good with the Rise of the Hobgoblins since I can give my tokens firststrike and death touch.
Good luck.
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My list is a little different from yours. I have Thoughtseize #4 in the board, which is very good in the match. I have 2x Wall of Omens main, which are great against Matter Reshaper and can also chump a Seer or Smasher to preserve a walker for a crucial turn. I also have a lower curve, with no 5-drops and fewer 4-drops, so I can get my deck's game plan online a little faster.
Not sure if those things would help, but I will say that I don't feel a need for Kor Firewalker. With 4x Trials plus two Walls and one Brutality in the main, my Burn match is pretty good without any dedicated hate.
The curve of discard --> blossom --> walker --> walker has been strong against almost every opposing deck.
I personally don't like the sorins as a card very much, but their role of lifegain + fast clock with blossom/souls tokens has given them a place to stay so far. The lifegain has been so relevant that even though I lost the titanshift matchup I actually won game 1 because sorin and lingering souls got me up to 38 life and scapeshift was unable to kill me.
I have also swapped my field of ruins into tec edges to hedge my tron matchups more and because with 4 drops being the upper limit it gives me a benefit during flooding out.
TL:DR Version -- My Opinions
23 lands = 4 drop maximum CMC
Bitterblossom must be at least 2 copies
Card draw doesn't seem neccessary
My deck,
4 Concealed Courtyard
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
3 Swamp
4 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Fetid Heath
Planeswalkers (11)
3 Gideon of the Trials
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Wall of Omens
Spells (20)
4 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
4 Lingering Souls
2 Damnation
1 Wrath of God
Enchantments (4)
4 Bitterblossom
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Collective Brutality
3 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Flaying Tendrils
2 Anguished Unmaking
[Modern] BW Superfriends, UW Control, E&T
[Pauper] UB Control
[Standard] Sultai Eneergy
My Twitch Account
https://go.twitch.tv/andyboydrobin
R1, 2-0 vs. Jeskai Geist: Won the roll and then rode Spirits and Faeries to victory in both games.
R2, 2-0 vs. Jund: Lost the roll. In G1 I smacked him around with some Spirits and then cleared the board with Damnation to swing in with Gids for the win. In G2 he made a tactical error and left me with a RiP in hand after taking a BB with his opening disruption; that RiP ended up neutering all 4 Goyfs to permanent 0/1 status throughout the game.
R3, 1-2 vs. Grixis Midrange: Won the roll and G1 but lost G2 & G3 to one of my shop's better players, whom I've beat several times with this deck over the past month. Pia and Kiran Nalaar out valued me as my opponent maxed out on Countersquall draws, backed up by Izzet Staticaster. I was missing the Wraths I took out after G1, after dying to Mom and Dad beats.
R4, 0-2 vs. Eldrazi Tron: I won the roll and IoK'ed his Map away, seeing him on two Tron lands, but leaving him a Chalice. Naturally he topdecks a Map on his opening draw. It was trivial for him to run me over after that, in part because I punted by discarding a much-needed Wrath to Lili too early in the game. In G2 an early Chalice stranded a total of 5 cards in my hand, by the final turn, and he countered my Damnation with Warping Wail. In this match he also drew two Ratchet Bombs, and blind-Needled Ally on T1, which was in my opening hand, and was the only walker I would see in the match. So, yeah. Tron did Tron things and my interaction was very bad.
Looking forward to Friday and this weekend at the GP side events. Will write up.
Tokens are a plan B in this deck, the way I see it; they mainly help protect the walkers. Gideon and Lili are plan A. Sorin, Solemn Visitor is a card I've been considering, but unlike the other cards (except Heart) it is very bad on an empty board by itself. Still, his synergy with BB and Souls might make him worth it.
Anyway my past six results were 2-2, 2-2, 2-2, 2-2, 0-3 (drop), 4-0. In the very first of those matches I got beat up as bad as I hope it ever happens, by a kid with his first Modern deck, at his first Modern event, on U-Tron, who mulled to 4, drew natural Tron on T4 off DESPITE my T2 Ghost Quarter to prevent it, and then killed me with a Spine of Ish Sah/Trading Post/Academy Ruins lock. Wow, was I salty about that one. But, variance is a thing, works both ways, that's the game we play, yadda yadda. (Kid had no sideboard.)
In the first two tournaments I was back to 2x Heart of Kiran, but I'm now convinced that is wrong, since it needs a walker to crew it. I still like one though.
Interesting take on the deck type, not all-in on Gideon like my deck is.
In retrospect I still feel like the deck is very powerful. I got really screwed in the 8th round giving me my 4th loss. He was playing Humans (was giddy with glee when I seen what he was playing) and I got stuck on 3 lands with 2 Damnation in my hand in the 3rd game. Even the guy I played said "I have no business beating that deck". I agree sir... I agree...
Here is the deck list I settled on.
1 Gideon Jura
3 Gideon of the Trials
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Damnation
1 Day of Judgment
1 Wrath of God
2 Fatal Push
3 Path to Exile
1 Collective Brutality
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls
3 Night's Whisper
3 Thoughtseize
1 Isolated Chapel
3 Godless Shrine
3 Marsh Flats
4 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
4 Swamp
4 Tectonic Edge
1 Collective Brutality
1 Disenchant
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Stony Silence
Round 1: 0-2 vs Lantern control. Not much to say here. Its Lantern control and it sucks. Game 2: I brought in the 1 Collective Brutality 1 Disenchant 1 Anguished Unmaking 1 Oblivion Ring, and opening hand he Thoughtseize one out of my hand, then Lantern came down and he was able to shread the rest off my deck the rest of the game. Hate that deck.
Round 2: 2-1 vs Burn: We have a great match up vs Burn. Kill any of there little dudes, then use Gideon of the Trils to tick up 1 time making him 4 counters. SO they need to use 2 burn spells on it. Or you just win. And if they do use 2 burn spells to kill him, then you are given 2 turns it feels like to come back in the match. I had no problems. Good match up.
Round 3: 2-0 Jund: This was another good game for us. We can kill any of there treats even if they do Thoughtseize us. Was a easy round.
Round 4: 2-0 vs Burn: Same as round 2. Easy stuff.
Round 5: 0-1-1 vs. GW Value town: This was just grindy match that seemed like no end. He had the Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Ramunap Excavator, Courser of Kruphix, combo on me both games. I could Wrath of God and he god stuff back with CC and the grind started again. Was really long match.
Round 6: 0-2 vs Blue/Black Faeries: I had never played agenst Faeries before. This was odd and even after a Inquisition of Kozilek he still got out Bitterblossom turn 2 both games and he had the counters in Remand and some flash faeries that could counter, and he out lasted me.
Round 7: 2-0 vs. Eldrazi Tron: This was the most wierd match of the night. I normal have a bad match vs E. Tron. BUT!... The man that was my opponent, came to the table MAD! Like PISSED OFF! MADDDDD!!!! I dont know what happend, I got to the table early and was just talking with the guys around and we was joking and laughing, you know just having fun. When he got there I asked "Hi how are you?" He replyed "Not good" In a very angry tone.
While he got setup I talked with the guys around and then he still looked so mad when he sat down I said "Hey man, you okay?" he said "no not at all" after that I just left him alone.
As for the match every thing went my way, nothing he did mattered much. I won both games kind of easy witch is very weird for me vs this deck.
After we was done and packing up out stuff he just started cursing and very loud about being angry over losing and "How once I would like to make a God Damn day two, and his ******* deck to work just once." as he was walking away. Super odd.
Round 8: vs Humans: Game one goes as you would think, I killed every thing. He was surprised by a main deck Damnation and I just rolled him over.
2nd game I had a clunky hand he got the PERFECT hand and he won. no big deal. 3rd game, I had some removal, 1 Swamp, 1 Godless Shine, and 1 Damnation, and 1 Gideon of the Trials. All I had to do was draw land and win......
I drew a Tectonic Edge and then never seen another land the rest of the game. I was able to hold him off for turn with Fatal Push and Patch to Exile, but he kept come back with more dudes. I even drew the 2nd Damnation. But no land to cast it. Before the last turn for him to win he cast a Kitesail Freebooter and seen my hand and was in shock. "Oh man now I see whats going on, I thought you was trying to slow roll me" No sir... my deck just didn't want to work all of a sudden. After the match he said "sorry man, I had no business beating that deck".
That's the way magic goes some times. That's my report. I still think the deck is really good. There is something here in this type of deck. I know I don't have the best 75 cards. But something to work off of and make better.
Great play report, thanks for posting.
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Walking Ballista
3 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Intangible Virtue
1 Legion's Landing
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Nevermore
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Path to Exile
1 Quarantine Field
4 Lingering Souls
2 Secure the Wastes
1 Rise of the Hobgoblins
2 Bitterblossom
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Field of Ruin
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Marsh Flatts
1 Fetid Heath
4 Godless Shrine
1 Swamp
1 Emeria,the Sky Ruin
1 Shambling Vent
1 Mistview Plains
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
5 Plains
1 Sundering Growth
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
4 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Devout Lightcaster
1 Nevermore
2 Rest in Peace
1 Wrath of God
1 Damnation
1 Day of Judgment
1 Leyline of the Void
https://www.channelfireball.com/home/in-development-the-deadly-four-mana-mark/
This article absolutely cements my sense that there is absolutely zero space for big Elspeth, and probably no room for big Gideon or Ob Nix, in this deck. The article is very definitely worth a read and I wish I'd stumbled onto this information a long time ago. The money quote: “Six mana is way more than five... maybe two mana more.”
3x Marsh Flats
3x Godless Shrine
4x Concealed Courtyard
2x Shambling Vent
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Plains
2x Swamp
1x Isolated Chapel
3x Caves of Koilos
Creatures (3)
2x Wall of Omens
1x Tombstalker
Planeswalker (10)
3x Gideon of the Trials
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
3x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3x Lingering Souls
3x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Bontu's Last Reckoning
2x Collective Brutality
1x Wrath of God
1x Night's Whisper
Instant (7)
4x Path to Exile
3x Fatal Push
Enchantment (2)
2x Bitterblossom
2x Crucible of Worlds
2x Stony Silence
2x Rest in Peace
2x Anguished Unmaking
2x Disenchant
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Wrath of God
2x Surgical Extraction
Match 1: Ad Nauseam
Game 1 - He mulled to five and my discard knocked him off balance until the Gideons killed him.
Game 2 - He combos out.
Game 3 - He gets laboratory maniac and "wins." I realized I had actually won the game after because I had a Gideon of the Trials with an emblem and he couldn't have won with maniac. Oh well :/
1-2
Match 2: Death's Shadow
I don't remember either game, but it was a one-sided affair in my favor. This probably is our best match-up. 2-0
Match 3: Storm
Game 1 - He mulls and I remove his hand with discard. A timely LOTV ultimate keeps him from the lands he needs to past in flames from his graveyard. He dies to a Gideon.
Game 2 - My removal kills off all of his creatures. He gets a blood moon into play, but surgical extraction on his grapeshot is the game. He concedes because he didn't side in empty the warrens after seeing me discard mass removal game 1.
2-0
Turbo Game 1: Burn
Easy match up as I drew a collective brutality and a gideon of the trials both games. 2-0
Turbo Game 2: Affinity
Game 1 - my spot removal holds the line until I surprise her with a wrath. That wins me the game.
Game 2 - Blood moon prevents me from playing magic.
Game 3 - A turn 2 stony silence and a wrath effect are enough to win the match.
2-1.
Modern 2:
Match 1: Affinity
Game 1 - A one-sided affair with all my removal.
Game 2- He drops a blood moon. I fetch for a plains in response, but draw 3 fatal pushes. I die shortly after.
Game 3 - I keep a risky one land hand with 3 paths, 1 push, and a stony silence. I never draw my second land.
1-2
Match 2: Bye
Match 3: My opponent and I split so that we can play in the next event.
Modern 3:
Match 1: Eldrazi and Taxes
Game 1 - Bitterblossom tokens overwhelm him.
Game 2 - His mana denial plan shuts me down.
Game 3 - We play a long game of attrition as my removal slowly withes his creatures away until my planeswalkers give me the advantage.
2-1
Match 2: Tropical Merfolk
Game 1 - He's flooded for a few turns, allowing me to play 3 'walkers and take control of the game.
Game 2 - A timely spreading seas and island walking lord wins him the game.
Game 3 - Spot and mass removal prevent him from getting the critical mass of fish people he needed to win. I keep a ghost quarter up
the whole game to prevent spreading seas from being a factor.
2-1
Match 3: My opponent and I split so I can play the next event.
Modern 4
Match 1: Affinity
She's not running blood moon and I don't have mana issues. The games were super easy as a result. 2-0
Match 2: Eldrazi Tron
Game 1: He mulls to five, but he still has a chalice on one. Lucky for me, I kept a hand with a Gideon of the Trials and a Liliana. Still, he gets enough
Eldrazi on the board that he gets me down to five. He's at 8. I decline to block with any of my spirit tokens. I draw a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. I pop him for his anthem emblem and win.
Game 2: Chalices and All is Dust beat me down.
Game 3: Despite an All is Dust, I play enough creatures on the board to win. A couple of wrath effects keep his eldrazi army at bay (drawing two cards from two dead thought-knot seers certainty helps!)
2-1
Match 3: We split.
Turbo Game 3: Kiki-Cord
Game 1 - This is a long war of attrition, but he's not prepared for a wrath game 1.
Game 2 - Orzhov Pontiff kills my spirit tokens and then his creatures kill me.
Game 3 - I path his Kiki-Jiki when he tries to combo out and Gideon my way to victory.
2-1
Turbo Game 4: Esper Gifts with Thopter Foundry Combo
Game 1 - He combos out.
Game 2/Game 3 - Rest in peace stalls his deck long enough for my deck to finish him.
Modern 5:
Match 1: Eldrazi Tron
I lose terribly despite an easy game 1 because he mulls to five. 1-2.
Match 2: G/B Rock
Game 1: Lingering souls is really good against G/B decks.
Game 2: A timely night of souls betrayal cripples my token army.
Game 3: Nissa, Vital Force emblem lets him draw 20 cards and I'm buried by his card advantage.
1-2
Match 3: Jund
Both games were long wars of attrition, but I have more removal for his creatures than he has for my 'walkers. He make's a mistake in sacrificing his LOTV to use her ultimate instead ticking up to 7 to keep her in play. I go from 8 to 4 lands, but the deck only needs 4 lands to function.
2-0
Modern 6:
Match 1: Simic Goodstuff
He looked like he wandered in from an EDH game, with prophet of kruphix and venser in his deck. It was odd. 2-1.
Match 2: Collected Company
He stomped me, as collected company is really good against mass removal, as are selfless spirits after boarding. 0-2.
Turbo Game 5: Eldrazi Tron
Chalices and All is Dust are hard to beat. 0-2.
Turbo Game 6: Tropical Merfolk
He's unprepared for all the removal I have. As long as they don't have too many spreading seas early, this feels like an easy matchup. 2-0.
Bontu's last reckoning was worth it as long as the opponent didn't see it coming (most game 1s). If they prepare for it, the drawback can hurt us badly. I think the cmc of 3 instead of 4 is very useful, but the drawback requires more careful play than a 4 cmc wrath would. Tombstalker was a way of avoiding pithing needles and token hosers, but it never felt necessary. I consider it a flex spot for alternative finishers like Heart of Kiran.
The only matchup where the deck really struggled was Eldrazi Tron. Death's Shadow, Jund, Storm, Tropical Merfolk and Affinity are all favorable matchups (minus the blood moons). I think practice against Collected Company might improve the match up, so it might not be as hopeless as it feels at first. Overall, the deck did very well and the format was very diverse. I won a foil tarmogoyf and a booster box of Hour of Devastation, so the deck is worth it in GP side events at least
[EDIT] Left it at home by mistake and played Colorless Eldrazi Stompy instead, going 3-1. Oh well!
Nah, the color balance of the deck felt right. The only mana troubles I had were due to mana screw or mana flood from variance.
My analysis on Bontu's Last Reckoning and other mass removal in this deck:
I think this deck is very well set up to take advantage of mass removal, even mass removal with a drawback like Bontu's. For a wrath to be effective, it has to generate card advantage, i.e. one wrath has to take out at least two creatures. Bontu complicates things since it stalls our tempo for a turn. Its cheaper to cast, but its drawback means that we might want to spend a few turns to properly set it up. So even though it costs three, we're incentivized to wait beyond turn three to actually pull the trigger.
To obtain card advantage from Bontu, we either need a permanent that can act as a spell even when our lands are tapped or we need the opponent to overextend so badly that the card advantage generated by casting Bontu is overpowering. The former is created by our planeswalkers - even when we're tapped for a turn, a Gideon or a Liliana in play can still act as spells even if we can't use the cards in our hand.
As for the latter, the deck greatly encourages our opponents to overextend: Our discard encourages our opponents to play their best cards or risk losing them. Spot removal, tokens, Gideon of the Trials first ability, and Liliana of the Veil second ability means that our opponents can't just cast one creature and expect it to win the game for them. They have to play at least two creatures to overcome everything we have. And if they do, our mass removal will generate the card advantage required to be game winning cards.
2 Wall of Omens
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Gideon of the Trials
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Gideon Jura
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Fatal Push
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Mana Tithe
2 Path to Exile
1 Rebuff the Wicked
2 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
2 Dash Hopes
2 Dawn Charm
3 Night's Whisper
3 Lingering Souls
1 Damnation
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Wrath of God
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Ixalan's Binding
2 Concealed Courtyard
4 Field of Ruin
3 Godless Shrine
1 Isolated Chapel
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
3 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Disenchant
1 Lost Legacy
1 Ruinous Path
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Witchbane Orb
1 Runed Halo
2 Stony Silence
1 Rule of Law
The deck has less planeswalkers, more in terms of card draw, ways to gain back life loss, and soft/hard counters. I have taken it to my local FNM as well as been playing on MTGO. I have been really pleased thus far with how it's performing and excited to continue to modify it. If you guys have any thoughts/suggestions/questions, I'd be happy to hear them. Hope this thread continues to grow!
UWAzorius Titan ControlUW
BWOrzhov ControlBW
I am planning on trying heart of kiran in a more planeswalker heavy build. I assume people have tried them but I never see them in lists anymore. It just seems too good at preemptively protecting the planeswalkers to not be playing, while simultaneously giving us more speed against decks we can't durdle around with.
UWAzorius Titan ControlUW
BWOrzhov ControlBW
2 Wall of Omens
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Gideon of the Trials
1 Liliana of the Veil
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
3 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Path to Exile
2 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
3 Night's Whisper
4 Lingering Souls
1 Damnation
1 Settle the Wreckage
2 Wrath of God
1 Runed Halo
1 Phyrexian Arena
2 Concealed Courtyard
4 Field of Ruin
2 Godless Shrine
1 Isolated Chapel
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
3 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Disenchant
1 Lost Legacy
1 Ruinous Path
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Torpor Orb
2 Witchbane Orb
2 Stony Silence
1 Rule of Law
So far the changes have helped dramatically and I'm pleased with testing results. I'll continue to test out and see areas of weaknesses to potentially change moving forward
UWAzorius Titan ControlUW
BWOrzhov ControlBW
UWAzorius Titan ControlUW
BWOrzhov ControlBW
I've been playing this deck since the rules change and I really feel like I'm getting in a good place with it. I keep tweaking cards here and there but I'm pretty settled on most of the core pieces.
Bitterblossom in my opinion is the best card in the deck, just curving BB into Gideon of the Trials is simply too much for most other midrange decks to handle. It's also one of the only 2 drops we have available that lives through a Wrath.
And that's what our deck is best at. We are an AMAZING wrath deck, one of the best in Modern if not the best. We need to maximize our ability to close out the game after a Wrath and Bitterblossom does that better than any other 2 drop we have. It even blocks better than Wall of Omens, and is harder to Kill.
Enough about BB though, my current list is -
1 Auriok Champion
1 Pack Rat
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Instants
3 Fatal Push
3 Path to Exile
Sorceries
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtsieze
1 Collective Brutality
4 Lingering Souls
1 Damnation
1 Day of Judgement
1 Wrath of God
Artifact
1 Heart of Kiran
Enchantment
3 Bitterblossom
3 Gideon of the Trials
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Gideon Jura
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Liliana of the Veil
Land
3 Concealed Courtyard
1 Flooded Strand
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Swamp
2 Windbrisk Heights
1 Celestial Purge
1 Collective Brutality
2 Disenchant
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Rest in Peace
1 Shadow of Doubt
2 Stony Silence
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Blessed Alliance
Some notes on the card choices:
3 of X - Playing BW and our card advantage is all virtual. BB tokens, PW tokens, PW's as removal... we need the draw step to give relevant cards and losing too many to the legendary rule (even after the change ) can cost us games. BB isn't legendary but the 2nd and especially 3rd copy lose value. We do take advantage of the 2nd BB significantly better than a more classic BW tokens deck though.
1 of's - Also due to the legend rule, or that these are cards where though good enough for inclusion the second copy loses SO much value that we can only afford to play one.
Pack Rat is the prime example here, its often just too slow but its such a nice insurance policy that it pulls it weight. Sometimes it's doing and awful Bitterblossom impression as you throw your rats under a Goyf, and other times you rat for 5 turns in a row then rat your opponent to death. Be prepared to side out.
Heart of Kiran can be crewed by Brimaz or Kalitas, even sometimes with summoning sick tokens. It races amazingly which earns it the maindeck slot, HoK into GotT is a nice clock with solid defense. Gets sided out a fair amount too though with basically being a "pump spell". Ofc is the first cut every time Stony Silence is brought in.
Brimaz is one of the weaker cards in the deck, I've thought about swapping him with 3 mana Thalia. He occasionally is very good though, one of the better blockers in our colours on 3 mana.
Sorin, LOI - Surprisingly good. Gaving access to another anthem is very nice, and in stalled games (which happen often) he can often either pump out multiple emblems or ultimate. I assumed originally he'd be worse than a 2nd Solemn Visitor but being able to have both out certainly comes up, as does just buying time to ult. Like I said I was surprised too.
Lili of the Veil - Remember those stalled out games I talked about? Well, this is how we blow them open. She is very rarely terrible in game 1 and she gives you outs to deck that are going to put you into long games (Where you're much more likely to see the 1 of). Things like Lantern Control or Chalice/Moon prison or Enchantress, you end up in a position where you can't kill them and they can't stop Gideon Emblem... LoTV finishes up those games. She certainly gets sided out in a lot of matches as well though.
Other Stuff -
Windbrisk Heights - Card advantage! IMO we activate it easily enough and can certainly use any way to squeeze out extra cards. We have a lot of attacking options. I've certainly chump attacked with a Vent to get a much better card out from under a Windbrisk.
Lili the Last Hope - We don't run enough creatures to play her maindeck, but in any matchup where her +1 kills creatures she is amazing. The whole deck is designed to protect planeswalkers and her ult is a gameender even as a far as ults go.
Wrath Split - I used to play 3 *** to play around Ezuri, but with Humans gaining so much popularity I think its a bit better to play around Meddling Mage.
Anyone else taking a similar approach? I might be taking this to GP Toronto so I've been trying to tune it for the field. I feel like I have game against anything, especially after board. Combined with the free wins you sometimes get off Trials Emblem, I'm pretty convinced this deck is stronger than Oops! All Gideons! the meme would suggest.
I like your deck a lot. I play something similar, but without so many Gideons and I actually like your Gideon plan a lot. I am not sold 100% on your creatures being main deck material, but I like all of them.
I like Pack Rat. I think it helps with tossing cards late that aren't as good IE discard spells or removal that would otherwise just sit in your hand. Its usually really slow, but it can win games especially against decks with lots of removal. I run one main.
Auriok Champion, I run two in my sideboard. They are good versus burn. Good verses Death's Shadow and that's enough to include them. I'm not sure they are good enough main deck, but I think they are very strong. You maybe right to run one main and another one or even two in the sideboard is not out of the question.
Brimaz and Kalitas are okay... I wish they survived Wrath... If I could think of a good creature that did I'd recommend that. They both make tokens and help you go wide, but both can die. I like adding these types of creatures after sideboarding so that my opponent has sided out his targeted removal.
I really like Intangible Virtue as a one or two of in the deck. You have enough token generators, and its the Vigilance that I think really is awesome. Being able to attack with your mostly flying tokens and then still block on the back swing can be back breaking. For this reason, I think the second Intangible Virtue is worth less than the first by a big margin and I'm happy to only run one or two even though it doubles my clock in most cases.
I'm not sold on Heart of Kiran. Like you said its mostly a pump spell and when its dead because you can't crew it, that hurts. Copter and Harvester can both be crewed by Souls tokens. Copter is card selection. Both work really well with Bitterblossom since the new token has summoning sickness. But it maybe that Kiran is great defense for Planeswalkers.
What about one Legion's Landing? You should be able to flip it routinely enough, once you do its pseudo card advantage as if you don't have anything else you can make the token. Lands are hard to deal with. Its legendary so with one it doesn't sit in your hand, but this can protect Planeswalkers pretty well.
I totally agree with the Wrath split, almost no difference so its better that Humans can't name it with Meddling Mage.
I would look at Secure the Wastes or Rise of the Hobgoblins. These are nice mana sinks late in the game. Secure is good early just to protect a Planeswalker or emergency put a blocker out there for Death Shadow. I like my one copy of Rise because I have a White Pips matter subtheme with Nythos in my Wb deck. I also run Weathered Wayfarer to find the lands I really want. But I'm not generating the super mana that some Nythos decks generate, it just sometimes is a good ramp. Vault of the Archangel is very good with the Rise of the Hobgoblins since I can give my tokens firststrike and death touch.
Good luck.