OK, there's this guy on MTGO called __matsugan, and s/he's been pretty persistent with this Turbo Devoted Vizier Combo deck. It's shown up in 3 MTGO Modern Challenges (it's made it into the Top 32 every time, and yes, it got 6th place the last time) and gone undefeated in 1 MTGO Modern League (you can see recorded proof here):
After testing the deck on Cockatrice, I don't have that big a clue how __matsugan keeps getting better and better at Top 32-ing MTGO Modern Challenges with it--it basically folds to disruption + removal pre-board (e.g. BGx Midrange, UWR), if Burn kills your first Devoted Druid you are probably screwed, it's stuck racing Affinity and it doesn't seem to make it out alive notably more than half the time, and Eldrazi Tron has surprising amounts of game against it. All the sideboards are clearly anti-Death's Shadow, and only the latest sideboard respects opposing Path to Exile by playing Blood Baron of Vizkopa. OK, so it's consistently faster than Abzan Company and Ad Nauseam from my testing, it has a decent time against RG Valakut, and it can catch UW Control flat-footed surprisingly often, but then Dredge keeps Conflagrateing Devoted Druids without Haste...
My Cockatrice test version turned into this after several games (subject to change; the sideboard is untested):
3-4 Summoner's Pact: It finds Devoted Druid and win cons. Shame it doesn't find Vizier of Remedies, and it's easy to put this deck in a position where it can't pay the next turn's upkeep. I find 4 of them a bit clunky precisely because it doesn't tutor for Vizier of Remedies and the backfire chance is awful, but __matsugan doesn't...and that's where the arguments begin.
1 Duskwatch Recruiter: A way to find your win con that you can Summoner's Pact for is a great idea.
1 Wild Cantor: Because the case where you need all your remaining mana (often from Devoted Druid) to cast Vizier of Remedies will happen surprisingly often. Summoner's Pact for this girl now turns this case into a win.
4 Hall of the Bandit Lord: Giving Devoted Druid Haste enables soooo much. You dodge sorcery-speed removal, make opponents uneasy, make Summoner's Pact sorta playable as a tutor, make Pact of Negation sorta playable as combo protection...
2 Horizon Canopy: Yes, land cantrips make the deck that much more consistent.
4 Oath of Nissa: One of the best cantrips in the deck. It finds both creatures and lands. Like every cantrip-that-finds-specific-cards in this deck, it whiffs somewhat often.
4 Pact of Negation: As much as I wanted Blossoming Defense to work out because it doesn't backfire with a nigh-unpayable upkeep next turn, G really is too much to pay when comboing off.
1-2 Conjurer's Bauble: Sticking discarded or dead win cons back in the deck is fine enough. The fact that it's a colourless artifact cantrip is more important.
__matsugan and I definitely don't agree about these cards (some of which I've tested and tentatively ditched):
Commune with Nature: I still love this card as a 4-of. __matsugan's ditched it entirely in his/her latest list. I don't get it. As often as it whiffs, and as much as it doesn't grab anything but creatures, it's still the best at digging for combo pieces, bar none.
Ancient Stirrings: __matsugan's run this up to a 4-of. I hate it and have pared it down to a 1-of. Yes, it finds lands and some cantrips (and a win con), but Mishra's Bauble is such a slowtrip, and you're lucky if you get Horizon Canopy or Conjurer's Bauble with it. ...And even those cantrips don't dig very far.
Manamorphose: It's "free", it filters your colours, it's an instant you don't want to sandbag, and you might be able to pay for Pact of Negation or hardcast Street Wraith with it some day...but those days are getting rarer and rarer. I seem to be more tempted than __matsugan is to rip it out entirely.
Deadshot Minotaur: Yes, it's one of the closest you can get to Summoner's Pacting for Vizier of Remedies, but a dig-1 cantrip sucks at getting her when you're desperate.
Uncage the Menagerie: All the ability to grab both combo pieces and/or win cons, none of the backfiring. It doesn't overload your hand with creatures, but you don't need that many.
Eternal Witness: What does __matsugan do with Walking Ballista--hide it in his/her deck? If Walking Ballista gets discarded or played and killed/suicided, you can't rely on finding Conjurer's Bauble and stuffing it back into the deck. I've run into cases where I played Walking Ballista for X = 0 just to enable Delirium fast enough, so I need that Eternal Witness. Besides, E. Wit. is actually a pretty good cantrip during the combo turn in practice (just make her grab an already used cantrip), and you can make her get another combo piece instead if that's how the game goes.
Seek the Wilds: A fifth Oath of Nissa that digs one more but costs twice as much is better than a bunch of other options out there. I guess Commune with the Gods and Gather the Pack are in similar camps, but I'd rather not whiff if I'm paying that much, and there are more lands in this deck than enchantments.
Grapple with the Past: It's like a love child of Oath of Nissa and Eternal Witness--it's fine at digging for combo pieces, and it precisely brings back dead/discarded ones. Being an an instant you'd rather not sandbag helps for Delirium.
Vessel of Nascency: I've tried this before. If it weren't for the fact that it takes 3 mana to crack, I might have kept it in my deck. It comes dang close to never whiffing, and it digs fairly hard.
Which of these card choices do you approve of? Are there other ways to improve this deck? How does this do so well in the hands of __matsugan in the first place? Do you think __matsugan will ever Top 4 a MTGO Modern Challenge with this deck?
The best way to improve this deck is to get rid of all the speed stuff and play Collected Company in it. Read the very first line in the linked article again, he doesn't disagree. Historically, an all-in turn X deck will always end up inferior to a turn X+1 deck with better defenses and/or backup plans. These bad all-in decks are not hard to spot, really; most of them shoehorn Simian Spirit Guide for a reason that is not "turn 5 Through the Breach is too slow", or Pact of Negation without the intention of paying for it (this deck is one such offender).
The next few lines says maybe it can get to the top if it's fast enough though. Dude seems to be getting some numbers with this build so maybe it's possible.
Historically speaking tolarian academy was banned in everything because it's too fast.
Flash received an emergency ban for being too fast also.
Thanks for starting this thread, Lectrys! I played _matsugan's latest list at FNM a few weeks ago to a 2-2 record and definitely noticed some of the same problems you highlighted. Going forward I'm going to try this list:
The four Unbridled Growth (a throw-back to _matsugan's original list) do three things in the deck: they turn Hall of the Bandit Lord into a painless source of mana, they put an enchantment in the yard for Traverse the Ulvenwald, and they cantrip. One of my biggest peeves with the latest list was the inability to reliably turn on delirium, which slowed down the deck considerably. You couldn't cast most of the instants until the combo turn and you couldn't get an enchantment into the yard unless you drew two Oath of Nissa.
I’m not sure about the sideboard just yet. I know I want some number of Defense Grids or maybe Dosan the Falling Leaf. Gideon of the Trials could be good for grindier match ups where he lets you pact for value and Hope of Ghirapur could do work in the Walking Ballista build. I gotta wonder though: if the match versus Grixis Deaths Shadow is so bad, why did _matsugan devote so many narrow sideboard slots to it? Would it be better to write GDS off, and devote SB slots to the other 94% of the metagame?
The Deck´s main Goal is to cast or reanimate a Devoted Druid on turn 1 or 2 and find the other Combo Peaces with tutors and cantrips.
Card choices:
4 Devoted Druid and 4 Vizier of Remedies: Main Combo for infinit mana.
1 Walking Ballista: Prime Wincondition and a great way to turn on Delirium
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt: Secondary Wincondition and also a great way to turn on Delirium (The reason to play her over Rhonas)
2 Duskwatch Recruiter: Finds the right Wincon or your Combo pieces if the Game goes Long.
4 Chancellor of the Tangle: A way to play Devoted Druid or 2 Cantrips Turn 1. Also Lets you turn on and cast Traverse the Ulvenwald with Looting. And a way To win the Game, if you fail to find your other wincons(just drop 2 6/7´s and beat down)
4 Street Wraith: for Delirium
4 Mishra's Bauble: for Delirium and sometimes you can time Fetchlands for scrying
3 Manamorphose: for Delirium and Mana Fixing
4 Faithless Looting: fastest Way to Turn on Delirium. Allows for an alternative way to play Devoted Druid early by reanimating it.
2 Claim // Fame: A way to get back Combo Pieces after they are delt with. and a way to combo off in one turn by giving Haste.
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald: Coretutor for Combo Pieces or missed Lnaddrops.
2 Commune with Nature: cantrip+Delirium
4 Oath of Nissa: cantrip+Delirium
Another Version of this Deck is with 3 Nahiri, the Habinger and an Emrakul as alternative Wincon.
Your list is very consistent how have you been doing with it?
Agreed. Looks great. I'm also curious. Also like the Chancellors. I quickly swapped them out in Amulet Bloom shortly after their print.... Way back in the day.
Just ran the combo in my head for your turn 1 win. Looks good.
Yours looks like reveal Chancellor. Play hall. Cast druid. Tap untap tap and manamorphose. Then cast vizier. Add infinite Mana and cast ballista. A lot less conveluted and less sexy than the amulet Ftk which for my amulet was....
Reveal Chancellor. Play amulet. Play Simisc growth chamber. Play summer bloom. Play growth chamber x3. Play primetime. Search for land that gives haste and +2/+0. Attack for 8 and search up 2 red hideaway lands. Either get green Titan or Emmy. If green Titan play for free then get 2 green hideaway lands. Look for Titan or Emmy. If Titan cast for ree and get get 2 green hideaway lands. Look for Titan or emmy. If Titan get 2 red hideaway lands. Play Emmy....
Never mind. RTFC in effect. Hall entera tapped. Ugh.
Maybe the recent shift towards aggro decks has worked in this deck's favour. Hollow One decks and Affinity don't always have the removal spell in hand, and this deck can shrug off one removal spell if it gets Pact of Negation or Postmortem Lunge. Humans puts up a stronger fight pre-board from my latest testing, though--Meddling Mage should optimally name Walking Ballista against this list, and even if they "mess up" and name Devoted Druid first, their 3-4 Phantasmal Images ensure they have double Meddling Mage too often. And then Thalia, Guardian of Thraben can often buy a crucial turn or two if Meddling Mage won't come.
I don't quite know whether to approve of the Adventurous Impulse-instead-of-Oath of Nissa swap. On the one hand, Oath of Nissa is an enchantment, which should help turn on Delirium better than a sorcery would in a deck with 11 other sorceries. On the other hand, Adventurous Impulse bins itself immediately and guaranteed.
I like the double Walking Ballista in this maindeck, though--Thought-Knot Seer should be enough reason to want more than one win con maindeck. Playing Ballista for X = 0 and dumping it into the graveyard to turn on Delirium also becomes a more viable play (and it was one that I was desperate enough to use today in testing). And then there's the nonzero chance of killing that Meddling Mage naming Vizier of Remedies because it was too late to name Devoted Druid.
1 Forest
4 Hall of the Bandit Lord
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Temple Garden
3 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures
4 Devoted Druid
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Street Wraith
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Walking Ballista
1 Wild Cantor
4 Commune with Nature
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Manamorphose
4 Pact of Negation
4 Summoner's Pact
1 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Unbridled Growth
4 Mirran Crusader
1 Mystic Enforcer
4 Path to Exile
4 Qasali Ambusher
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Forest
4 Hall of the Bandit Lord
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Temple Garden
3 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures
4 Devoted Druid
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Street Wraith
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Walking Ballista
1 Wild Cantor
3 Ancient Stirrings
4 Commune with Nature
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Manamorphose
4 Pact of Negation
4 Summoner's Pact
1 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Oath of Nissa
4 Mirran Crusader
1 Mystic Enforcer
4 Path to Exile
4 Qasali Ambusher
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Forest
4 Hall of the Bandit Lord
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Murmuring Bosk
2 Temple Garden
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
Creatures
1 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Devoted Druid
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Street Wraith
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Walking Ballista
1 Wild Cantor
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Weird Harvest
1 Manamorphose
4 Pact of Negation
4 Summoner's Pact
2 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Oath of Nissa
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1 Defense Grid
1 Devout Lightcaster
4 Mirran Crusader
1 Mystic Enforcer
4 Path to Exile
1 Qasali Ambusher
2 Reclamation Sage
After testing the deck on Cockatrice, I don't have that big a clue how __matsugan keeps getting better and better at Top 32-ing MTGO Modern Challenges with it--it basically folds to disruption + removal pre-board (e.g. BGx Midrange, UWR), if Burn kills your first Devoted Druid you are probably screwed, it's stuck racing Affinity and it doesn't seem to make it out alive notably more than half the time, and Eldrazi Tron has surprising amounts of game against it. All the sideboards are clearly anti-Death's Shadow, and only the latest sideboard respects opposing Path to Exile by playing Blood Baron of Vizkopa. OK, so it's consistently faster than Abzan Company and Ad Nauseam from my testing, it has a decent time against RG Valakut, and it can catch UW Control flat-footed surprisingly often, but then Dredge keeps Conflagrateing Devoted Druids without Haste...
My Cockatrice test version turned into this after several games (subject to change; the sideboard is untested):
4 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Forest
2 Temple Garden
3 Windswept Heath
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Murmuring Bosk
Creatures
4 Devoted Druid
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Walking Ballista
1 Wild Cantor
4 Street Wraith
1 Eternal Witness
4 Mishra's Bauble
1 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Oath of Nissa
4 Pact of Negation
1 Manamorphose
3 Summoner's Pact
1 Grapple with the Past
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Commune with Nature
1 Ancient Stirrings
1 Uncage the Menagerie
1 Seek the Wilds
1 Defense Grid
3 Mirran Crusader
1 Caustic Caterpillar
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1 Mystic Enforcer
1 Qasali Ambusher
1 Shriekmaw
1 Spellskite
4 Path to Exile
These are card choices that __matsugan and I agree with:
__matsugan and I definitely don't agree about these cards (some of which I've tested and tentatively ditched):
Which of these card choices do you approve of? Are there other ways to improve this deck? How does this do so well in the hands of __matsugan in the first place? Do you think __matsugan will ever Top 4 a MTGO Modern Challenge with this deck?
The best way to improve this deck is to get rid of all the speed stuff and play Collected Company in it. Read the very first line in the linked article again, he doesn't disagree. Historically, an all-in turn X deck will always end up inferior to a turn X+1 deck with better defenses and/or backup plans. These bad all-in decks are not hard to spot, really; most of them shoehorn Simian Spirit Guide for a reason that is not "turn 5 Through the Breach is too slow", or Pact of Negation without the intention of paying for it (this deck is one such offender).
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Big Johnny.
Historically speaking tolarian academy was banned in everything because it's too fast.
Flash received an emergency ban for being too fast also.
4 Devoted Druid
4 Street Wraith
1 Rhonas, the Indomitable
1 Wild Cantor
4 Summoner’s Pact
4 Pact of Negation
4 Manamorphose
2 Uncage the Menagerie
4 Mishra’s Bauble
1 Conjurer’s Bauble
4 Oath of Nissa
4 Unbridled Growth
4 Hall of the Bandit Lord
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
2 Temple Garden
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
This version emphasizes speed. The four Manamorphose increase your turn two kill rate (T1: Hall of the Bandit Lord, T2: hasty Devoted Druid, make GG, Manamorphose into GW, cast Vizier of Remedies, Summoner's Pact or Uncage the Menagerie for Rhonas, the Indomitable). You can also cast them as a cantrip to put an instant in the yard for Traverse the Ulvenwald.
The four Unbridled Growth (a throw-back to _matsugan's original list) do three things in the deck: they turn Hall of the Bandit Lord into a painless source of mana, they put an enchantment in the yard for Traverse the Ulvenwald, and they cantrip. One of my biggest peeves with the latest list was the inability to reliably turn on delirium, which slowed down the deck considerably. You couldn't cast most of the instants until the combo turn and you couldn't get an enchantment into the yard unless you drew two Oath of Nissa.
Playing Rhonas, the Indomitable over Walking Ballista and Duskwatch Recruiter frees up an extra slot in the deck. If I run into a lot of Platinum Emperion’s, I’ll switch back, but I think the it’s possible to win before your opponent casts Madcap Experiment. Ensnaring Bridge is easily beatable by attacking with Devoted Druid as an 0/2 and then pumping after attackers are declared.
I like the third Horizon Canopy or Temple Garden over Murmuring Bosk since it comes into play untapped and we never really need black mana.
I’m not sure about the sideboard just yet. I know I want some number of Defense Grids or maybe Dosan the Falling Leaf. Gideon of the Trials could be good for grindier match ups where he lets you pact for value and Hope of Ghirapur could do work in the Walking Ballista build. I gotta wonder though: if the match versus Grixis Deaths Shadow is so bad, why did _matsugan devote so many narrow sideboard slots to it? Would it be better to write GDS off, and devote SB slots to the other 94% of the metagame?
Goryo's Fuse Combo UBR
Your list is very consistent how have you been doing with it?
Just ran the combo in my head for your turn 1 win. Looks good.
Yours looks like reveal Chancellor. Play hall. Cast druid. Tap untap tap and manamorphose. Then cast vizier. Add infinite Mana and cast ballista. A lot less conveluted and less sexy than the amulet Ftk which for my amulet was....
Reveal Chancellor. Play amulet. Play Simisc growth chamber. Play summer bloom. Play growth chamber x3. Play primetime. Search for land that gives haste and +2/+0. Attack for 8 and search up 2 red hideaway lands. Either get green Titan or Emmy. If green Titan play for free then get 2 green hideaway lands. Look for Titan or Emmy. If Titan cast for ree and get get 2 green hideaway lands. Look for Titan or emmy. If Titan get 2 red hideaway lands. Play Emmy....
Never mind. RTFC in effect. Hall entera tapped. Ugh.
Goryo's Fuse Combo UBR
1 Forest
4 Hall of the Bandit Lord
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Temple Garden
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
Creatures
1 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Devoted Druid
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Street Wraith
4 Vizier of Remedies
2 Walking Ballista
1 Wild Cantor
4 Adventurous Impulse
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Commune with Nature
1 Postmortem Lunge
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
1 Manamorphose
4 Pact of Negation
4 Summoner's Pact
1 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Mishra's Bauble
2 Postmortem Lunge
1 Defense Grid
1 Dissenter's Deliverance
4 Mystic Enforcer
4 Path to Exile
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Slaughter Pact
Maybe the recent shift towards aggro decks has worked in this deck's favour. Hollow One decks and Affinity don't always have the removal spell in hand, and this deck can shrug off one removal spell if it gets Pact of Negation or Postmortem Lunge. Humans puts up a stronger fight pre-board from my latest testing, though--Meddling Mage should optimally name Walking Ballista against this list, and even if they "mess up" and name Devoted Druid first, their 3-4 Phantasmal Images ensure they have double Meddling Mage too often. And then Thalia, Guardian of Thraben can often buy a crucial turn or two if Meddling Mage won't come.
I don't quite know whether to approve of the Adventurous Impulse-instead-of-Oath of Nissa swap. On the one hand, Oath of Nissa is an enchantment, which should help turn on Delirium better than a sorcery would in a deck with 11 other sorceries. On the other hand, Adventurous Impulse bins itself immediately and guaranteed.
I like the double Walking Ballista in this maindeck, though--Thought-Knot Seer should be enough reason to want more than one win con maindeck. Playing Ballista for X = 0 and dumping it into the graveyard to turn on Delirium also becomes a more viable play (and it was one that I was desperate enough to use today in testing). And then there's the nonzero chance of killing that Meddling Mage naming Vizier of Remedies because it was too late to name Devoted Druid.