I've tested lingering souls in my list instead of bloodghast and they are ok. In some games they help me to chump or survive against flying dudes although the deck becomes bit slower (cause blooghast are free attacker).
For now I've only switched 4 ghast for three lingering souls and added a third copy of lava axe so right now I've plenty of ways to discard while keeping my removal high enough (4 snipper, 3 axe, 4 hunters, 3 pariah).
I played Grave Scrabbler in earlier iterations of the deck but finally I removed them because:
1) I've added the kolaghan's command which are more useful
2) The scrabblers are ok but not awesome.
Also I think cryptbreaker are a waste of slots in the deck. For me they are slow and lot of times irrelevant. It's true that it can provide you card advantage with infestation and the scrabblers (that I don't play) but the deck is full of virtual card advantage so they seem unnecesary to me.
Copter seems to me to be a better flying blocker while also being a better clock and a discard outlet. What does k command do for you g1's? We aren't a deck that controls the opponents hand, a deck that cares about any artifacts really, you cut scrabblers that recurs dead creatures at almost the same cost, and it's 3 cmc and that's a high cost if you're having yourself discard. Cutting cryptbreaker seems insane to me. The card is a t2 discard outlet/token maker as well as a card draw engine (this is why I'm on 2 crawlers as well). Scrabbler goes nicely there too (being it's a zombie) while getting your bgh/scrabblers back. I personally can't get behind those two cuts at all but if that works for you great.
Played a few paper matches last night.
2-0'd boggles bridge and pariah were great there.
1-2 against titanshift. Match feels rough g1. G2 I ts seeing titan, scapeshift, anger so I take scape. T2 play infestation (make a guy on his end step) t3 bloodmoon attack and pass (make guy at their eot). T4 attack pass. Opponents t4 cast chandra +s to anger I make a guy madness in pariah flip and then win basically. G3 I keep 1 land on the draw with cb, bloodmoon, bridge, infestation, squee, and copter. I didn't think I could find much better of a hand at 6 so I kept and failed to see a land for 4 turns and it was too late.
1-2 8 wack (newer player but I helped him through it) G1 got ran over G2 removed the 2 loyalist and won easily with sniper. G3 removed 2 loyalists then he topdecked the 3rd. Match doesn't seem that bad but loyalist is definitely an issue. Good chance I just got unlucky but will find room for 4sniper.
2-1 vs humans g1 didn't hit 3rd land to really get things moving. G2/3 all the removal is just too much.
All that being said these are my next changes.
Main out
2 priest (card has honestly been good but I need room)
2 gravecrawler (felt like a madness card and helped zombie tribal but I need early blockers and this doesn't fit there)
Main in
2 blood moon (helps vs almost all t1 decks right now)
1 hazoret (just not willing to give up on it but likely shouldn't have a spot here and should be another copter)
1 ruthless sniper (1/2 early blocker/crewer for copter seemed more relevant vs 8wack so I want to go up to 4
Sb out
2 blood moon
1 hazoret
Sb in
2 fulminator mage (help vs valakut mainly can be recurring though scrabbler. Also crews the t2 copter(should really be on 3 copter lol))
1 kalitas, traitor of ghet (well we make zombies and vamps so... lifegain is good and vs burn bridge is bad. Worth a testing)
Thanks for sharing your match results, KTROJAN. And I agree, taking Cryptbreaker out of this build is crazy, as is Grave Scrabbler.
To note: I ALWAYS forget that Big Game Hunter is ALSO an answer to emmy; that 'protection from colored spells' text is....finicky at best. But now that I think about it, you're right. It's not a spell, but an ability targeting him.
I've gotten a few games in with copter in the place of call....just doesn't seem to get me there like call does. Too many limitations, and by that I mean it can only loot for you when it attacks or blocks(relegating it to an only combat enabler, plus you have to slightly over extend to use it by crew'ing it. I think this decks strength comes from the fact that MOST of our discard enablers are enchantments, not creatures. There's far, FAR less enchantment hate than there is creature hate, even post-board for many decks. I just feel infestation/call is more likely to stick around and allow you to really get the synergies going. I'll post some match results with copter later.
I don't understand how you think scrabbler is meh; it allows for some silly synergy; discarding a creature and madnessing it out to get it back to get you a 2/2 token, PLUS another 2/2 zombie(Zombie Infestation)
. Plus you can chain them together!
Basically, with an infestation, it sorta reads madness scrabbler into play, get 2 2/2s, and get a creature back(mostly hollow one cuz its a removal target or you had to cycle it). Or you can pitch a flashback spell OR a squee. It's a solid card for us.
Just on speculation, Oona's Prowler and Olivia's Dragoon seem to be better discard enablers on the surface than Smuggler's Copter, as I previously stated, the copter is actually a narrow-looking outlet on paper; you have to crew it meaning you gotta have another creature(probably a token that would otherwise be attacking) AND it ONLY works if it is declared as an attacker OR declared as a blocker. I think prowler wins that competition on paper. Copter DOES have a more flexible casting cost, a fatter butt, they both fly, both have 3 power, but in a case where you don't want to attack, say, they have a good, flying board....delver? Then prowler's WAY better as they won't REALLY want to discard(most delver decks are tempo/pseudo-control) but in case you can't attack, at least the prowler and dragoon allow you to make dudes at the end of their turn. Infestation really is the pivotal card in the deck, as it gives us the ability to have a board presence while also giving us a permanent, anytime, no cost outlet to make said dudes, essentially giving them all flash.
For reference, these are the 2 mana cost discard outlets we have(obviously we have the Cryptbreaker but that is in its' own section and only costs B) in black(or artifact) that are legal in modern:
Now, these are the only outlets that somewhat fit the bill; the best of them can be used at instant speed. One of the greatest strengths of a madness deck is the ability to play stuff at the end of your opponents' turn, or things that normally wouldn't be an instant suddenly become one. Copter kinda squashes that, however efficient it is. This deck seeks to bury the opponent in overwhelming card advantage, and having an outlet that only SOMETIMES works defeats the purpose, this is after about two dozen games with it now. But hey, if copter works for your meta then it's not BAD, just not quite as versatile, but vs more of a creature-heavy meta, I could see it being better.
OH, hey ya'll. Found some super duper tech for us those of us that run Hollow One against various goryo's/other recursion. It's even good against coco, and for us, we get 2 upsides for Hollow One....Faerie Macabre!
I don't run copter in place of call I run it as well as call. copter loots and that matters even if you don't have madness enablers. With a squee it basically reads draw a card for 0 cost to you while you attack with a 3/3 flying threat. Copter also just gets you to what you need faster. Squee is a very key part of this deck and if have at least 1 you're just way better off. Cards like copter/breaker just help me get to it, bridge, blood moon, or the best discard outlet for the occasion. I've thought of pack rat but 3 mana just to discard is too high imo. I'm not sure how hollow one fits in either. I get we discard a lot but a vanilla 4/4 isn't really that big of a deal when we are on the go wide plan. It's still smaller than tasigur, angler, drazi's, death's shadow as well as the fact that if discarding it it doesn't give extra value like madness creatures do. I'm not saying it's wrong I'm saying where is it better (even more so if you don't have infestation out because it's still a 3 drop then). My deck is clearly a bit different so take that into effect too when you're reading my thoughts.
Ok after 5 games where I got to use copter, it deserves a spot. I'm on the same page as you KTROJAN, run it WITH call as opposed to instead of it, call's a darn good enabler by itself just not our best. But I wonder...I found myself not using the copter for madness'ing, but rather just for the draw...and since these decks get hellbent SUPER fast, I wonder if Asylum Visitor wouldn't be better. It's better in the card draw department at least, drawing you 2 cards per cycle of turns, just doesn't fly and doesn't have quite the booty. But, then again, it doesn't soak up another creature just to allow it to function(although sniper's the #1 target for crewing the copter) while the other one is a bit better in that regard. Copter's far better vs affinity, but visitor's far better vs control and grindy-er games, digging you deeper. Also, and this deserves mention for some points for visitor, you can control the card drawing a lot easier due to madness aka flash and if you're behind visitor will still draw you cards. I dunno what do ya'll think about that comparison?
I don't think it works as well as you'd like.
Pros over copter
1 Madness
2 IF opponent is hellbent you get an extra card
3 No need for another creature to get a card
4 doesn't get destroyed by artifact removal/stony
Cons
1 doesn't fly (matter both blocking and attacking)
2 is a 1 toughness
3 cost life to draw
4 always a creature (can't evade removal if you want)
5 doesn't enable discard
6 requires you to be hellbent
I personally just don't see it but then again I love the looter scooter!
You make some good points with that comparison, but at least 1 of those is a nombo; the life loss. People play BOB and that costs MORE life, has less toughness, etc. The copter does dodge sorcery-speed removal, but that's it. I'm playing some games with both and I'll report.
You make some good points with that comparison, but at least 1 of those is a nombo; the life loss. People play BOB and that costs MORE life, has less toughness, etc. The copter does dodge sorcery-speed removal, but that's it. I'm playing some games with both and I'll report.
Jund dies to bobs as well as treats them as dead draws late game sometimes. Bob also gets killed by the jund player often too just so they don't die. The lowlife loss from bob in jund is still a downside they just hope to control the opponents hand enough that they can do more damage than what's dealt to them. Yes on average bob probably does 1 maybe 1.5 damage to its player per turn but the advantage come t3 where this would be t4 at the very earliest depending on how you mulligan.
I got 3 matches in this am
2-0 gw value company
2-0 w/b taxes
2-0 u/b control
Love moon main and love that once infestation is out we don't need too much mana.
You make some good points with that comparison, but at least 1 of those is a nombo; the life loss. People play BOB and that costs MORE life, has less toughness, etc. The copter does dodge sorcery-speed removal, but that's it. I'm playing some games with both and I'll report.
Jund dies to bobs as well as treats them as dead draws late game sometimes. Bob also gets killed by the jund player often too just so they don't die. The lowlife loss from bob in jund is still a downside they just hope to control the opponents hand enough that they can do more damage than what's dealt to them. Yes on average bob probably does 1 maybe 1.5 damage to its player per turn but the advantage come t3 where this would be t4 at the very earliest depending on how you mulligan.
I got 3 matches in this am
2-0 gw value company
2-0 w/b taxes
2-0 u/b control
Love moon main and love that once infestation is out we don't need too much mana.
Yeah, if you peek earlier in the forums, I agree; moon is great for us. I find myself bringing in moon more than any other sideboard card, so it probably earns a MD spot.
Round 1 vs G/B Delirium: Win, 2-1 - The game he won he had a bonkerz draw with 3 Grim Flayers(this was round 2) and he managed to keep me off infestation with Abrupt Decay while roasting my Cryptbreaker. Starting to think that the Liliana and 4th Call should be there, after all(at least I felt that way during this match but that' nominal), that's the list that top 8'd a tournament that drew over 800 people, that's GOTTA count for something.
Round 2 vs titanshift: win, 2-1 - I played this deck back when it first came out with Summer Bloom before it was banned and it's MUCH slower without it, altho Azusa, Lost but seeking is good but it still packs a punch and without a way to deal with Valakut it has inevitability. In both games Blood Moon and Thoughtseize were all-stars, and they really just can't deal with our ability to make dudes constantly, especially if they're Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle is ruined.
Round 3 vs American control: loss, 1-2 - Good ol' red white and blue...it was actually the first deck I ever built when modern came out, but at that time it couldn't keep up with the combo decks that have since been neutered; but, this deck is still good. Wall of Omens is a real pain as it can staunch the bleeding long enough for them to get to cryptic turf, and at that point, you're right next to snapcaster+cryptic/helix/bolt and their colonnade. I think this might even be the toughest match I've played yet; mardu madness is built for a creature-based format for sure. Maybe some tweaking with Psychotic Episode, I dunno. Thoughtseize was good in this match, but felt like it only prolonged the inevitable. Sniper was also an atrocious draw; even pariah felt like it was has they have so much draw.
Round 4 va Affinity: This match is BAD. Cranial Plating is our biggest problem, unless they go under us, which happens more often than not. Anyone got some good tech vs affinity? Seems to be our worst match-up.
And BOTH require life, BOB usually costing most unless you get a land. I'm gonna try both and see what's better. Plus, visitor can draw you 1 card each turn, while bob only draws during your upkeep AND usually costs more life. I'll report.
It does for most metas. Moon can lock players out the game from the early turns. I also like bridges main. I'm seeing a kinda weird Free-win Madness deck forming from all this.
Now all ya need to do is find a good planeswalker to run in that. Lilly probably works best.
I would greatly appreciate more decklists posted with tournament reports and deck-changes like adding or removing smuggler's copter. It would give some context to what you're talking about.
My list is the same as posted above still. You don't really need a walker to sit behind the bridge because you're making an army to sit behind it. Then one you have 1-2 squee you are free to attack while your opponent is locked out. I actually just beat jundvine 2 matches in a row that way a minute ago. I also just beat titan shift with my new setup not seeing a bloodmoon at all. Fulminator reanimated was good enough to buy me plenty of time. In a world of ds everywhere now as well as eldrazi's I think my list is set up very nicely. I'll be playing it like this for awhile before making any other changes with the exception of the 1 flex spot. 3rd copter, 3rd moon, 4th call, or 1st hazoret not sure what's best there. Deck feels really good
Copter's a great add. It allows you to draw first which is really key. The bridge has been really good. A really great card for our synergies. Thank you for pointing out that tech KTROJAN
That said, in your deck I think Hollow One gets way worse. I found with an infestation out, it almost always costed me 1 or 0, and although it doesn't fit the going wide plan, in syncs with dumping a bunch of cards, and with the added ability to cycle if need-be and then get it back with scrabbler while simultaneously making it cost 2 less is really good CA.
Kinda like cycle hallow one. Discard 2 to infestation. 1 of them was a scrambler. Madness it in to bring back hallow one and cast for free. End with 2 2/2s and a 4/4 for 3B and costs a net of 0 card disadvantage.
Kinda like cycle hallow one. Discard 2 to infestation. 1 of them was a scrambler. Madness it in to bring back hallow one and cast for free. End with 2 2/2s and a 4/4 for 3B and costs a net of 0 card disadvantage.
Other than not agreeing with the hollow one, looting, and street I really don't think you want 4 check lands. You don't want to have one enter tapped in the first two turns. T1-T2 are key turns and having a land enter tapped is back breaking. It comes up with 1 so I can't imagine how often it comes up with 4.
Yeah you're right, we NEED to play one of our enablers on T2. 2 checklands is plenty; if we have a smooth turns 1 and 2 the deck generally does what it's supposed to and possibly messing with that is really, really, REALLY bad for our gameplan.
Okay so y'all would change the mana base slightly. Good deck otherwise?
If you want me to be honest I don't care for it no. No snipers seems wrong, street wraith/hollow one seems like the "well their doing it so it must be right", and looting imo isn't where you want to be for your discard outlet (again feels like you're trying to mix this with the hollowvine deck). You have no way to kill small creatures and only 3 bgh for big creatures (ds/eldrazi's). Without sniper you have 4 1 drops in cryptbreaker (looting t1 isn't where you want to be I'd imagine unless you're just looking for an enchantment).
Okay so y'all would change the mana base slightly. Good deck otherwise?
If you want me to be honest I don't care for it no.
That's fine. I'm trying to help ouy guys build a deck that works.
No snipers seems wrong,
The games I've seen with this deck the sniper does very little,
Isn't an out to the new deck, is too small an effect for the big beaters in modern.
street wraith/hollow one seems like the "well their doing it so it must be right",
Of course that's what it is. I'm going along with the ideas posted on this thread.
and looting imo isn't where you want to be for your discard outlet (again feels like you're trying to mix this with the hollowvine deck).
I'm suggesting you use looting to find your actual answers. Rather than just snipers get actual card draw from squee, use it as an engine, and have the cards you actually need and want.
You have no way to kill small creatures and only 3 bgh for big creatures (ds/eldrazi's).
Doubt you need a way to actually kill small creatures. This deck is designed to go wide. While also have card draw and selection. Big cheap guys can also be shut down with bridges. Bgh being in this deck is a concession to what y'all want. I wouldn't play with card personally. Imo, it doesn't provide enough pressure to combo and control.
Without sniper you have 4 1 drops in cryptbreaker
Sniper isn't really that good. Doesn't race well, doesn't do enough against combo and control. And doesn't stack up well against the format defining deck.
(looting t1 isn't where you want to be I'd imagine unless you're just looking for an enchantment).
(or bridge) Pretty much just using this as a way to set up early. Look for bridge, moon, or another answer or engine.
I'd suggest that turn 1 sniper isn't where you want to be. What does sniper do against DS, goyf, Emmy, planeswalkers, zoo rush, etc. It pretty much only puts in work against a few mana dorks. Then it fails there all too often since it doesn't come online until turn 3 usually. After a call or infestation is there.
Copter seems to me to be a better flying blocker while also being a better clock and a discard outlet. What does k command do for you g1's? We aren't a deck that controls the opponents hand, a deck that cares about any artifacts really, you cut scrabblers that recurs dead creatures at almost the same cost, and it's 3 cmc and that's a high cost if you're having yourself discard. Cutting cryptbreaker seems insane to me. The card is a t2 discard outlet/token maker as well as a card draw engine (this is why I'm on 2 crawlers as well). Scrabbler goes nicely there too (being it's a zombie) while getting your bgh/scrabblers back. I personally can't get behind those two cuts at all but if that works for you great.
Played a few paper matches last night.
2-0'd boggles bridge and pariah were great there.
1-2 against titanshift. Match feels rough g1. G2 I ts seeing titan, scapeshift, anger so I take scape. T2 play infestation (make a guy on his end step) t3 bloodmoon attack and pass (make guy at their eot). T4 attack pass. Opponents t4 cast chandra +s to anger I make a guy madness in pariah flip and then win basically. G3 I keep 1 land on the draw with cb, bloodmoon, bridge, infestation, squee, and copter. I didn't think I could find much better of a hand at 6 so I kept and failed to see a land for 4 turns and it was too late.
1-2 8 wack (newer player but I helped him through it) G1 got ran over G2 removed the 2 loyalist and won easily with sniper. G3 removed 2 loyalists then he topdecked the 3rd. Match doesn't seem that bad but loyalist is definitely an issue. Good chance I just got unlucky but will find room for 4sniper.
2-1 vs humans g1 didn't hit 3rd land to really get things moving. G2/3 all the removal is just too much.
All that being said these are my next changes.
Main out
2 priest (card has honestly been good but I need room)
2 gravecrawler (felt like a madness card and helped zombie tribal but I need early blockers and this doesn't fit there)
Main in
2 blood moon (helps vs almost all t1 decks right now)
1 hazoret (just not willing to give up on it but likely shouldn't have a spot here and should be another copter)
1 ruthless sniper (1/2 early blocker/crewer for copter seemed more relevant vs 8wack so I want to go up to 4
Sb out
2 blood moon
1 hazoret
Sb in
2 fulminator mage (help vs valakut mainly can be recurring though scrabbler. Also crews the t2 copter(should really be on 3 copter lol))
1 kalitas, traitor of ghet (well we make zombies and vamps so... lifegain is good and vs burn bridge is bad. Worth a testing)
To note: I ALWAYS forget that Big Game Hunter is ALSO an answer to emmy; that 'protection from colored spells' text is....finicky at best. But now that I think about it, you're right. It's not a spell, but an ability targeting him.
I've gotten a few games in with copter in the place of call....just doesn't seem to get me there like call does. Too many limitations, and by that I mean it can only loot for you when it attacks or blocks(relegating it to an only combat enabler, plus you have to slightly over extend to use it by crew'ing it. I think this decks strength comes from the fact that MOST of our discard enablers are enchantments, not creatures. There's far, FAR less enchantment hate than there is creature hate, even post-board for many decks. I just feel infestation/call is more likely to stick around and allow you to really get the synergies going. I'll post some match results with copter later.
I don't understand how you think scrabbler is meh; it allows for some silly synergy; discarding a creature and madnessing it out to get it back to get you a 2/2 token, PLUS another 2/2 zombie(Zombie Infestation)
. Plus you can chain them together!
Basically, with an infestation, it sorta reads madness scrabbler into play, get 2 2/2s, and get a creature back(mostly hollow one cuz its a removal target or you had to cycle it). Or you can pitch a flashback spell OR a squee. It's a solid card for us.
For reference, these are the 2 mana cost discard outlets we have(obviously we have the Cryptbreaker but that is in its' own section and only costs B) in black(or artifact) that are legal in modern:
Zombie Infestation
Call the Bloodline
Oona's Prowler
Oblivion Crown
Skirk Ridge Exhumer
Rakdos Guildmage
Pack Rat
Stromkirk Condemned(although this one's probably the worst for us)
Undertaker
Smuggler's Copter
Heir of Falkenrath
Oblivion Crown
Olivia's Dragoon
I'm probably missing some obscure artifact or something, or just can't remember some various one, but these are the only ones at 2 cmc anyone would consider in their right minds.
Now, these are the only outlets that somewhat fit the bill; the best of them can be used at instant speed. One of the greatest strengths of a madness deck is the ability to play stuff at the end of your opponents' turn, or things that normally wouldn't be an instant suddenly become one. Copter kinda squashes that, however efficient it is. This deck seeks to bury the opponent in overwhelming card advantage, and having an outlet that only SOMETIMES works defeats the purpose, this is after about two dozen games with it now. But hey, if copter works for your meta then it's not BAD, just not quite as versatile, but vs more of a creature-heavy meta, I could see it being better.
OH, hey ya'll. Found some super duper tech for us those of us that run Hollow One against various goryo's/other recursion. It's even good against coco, and for us, we get 2 upsides for Hollow One....Faerie Macabre!
My current ideal list
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Smuggler's Copter
Creature (23)
4 Big Game Hunter
4 Cryptbreaker
4 Grave Scrabbler
1 Grim Lavamacer
3 Ruthless Sniper
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
3 Voldaren Pariah
3 Blood Moon
3 Call the Bloodline
4 Zombie Infestation
Land (21)
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Dragonskull Summit
11 Swamp
2 Darkblast
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
Pros over copter
1 Madness
2 IF opponent is hellbent you get an extra card
3 No need for another creature to get a card
4 doesn't get destroyed by artifact removal/stony
Cons
1 doesn't fly (matter both blocking and attacking)
2 is a 1 toughness
3 cost life to draw
4 always a creature (can't evade removal if you want)
5 doesn't enable discard
6 requires you to be hellbent
I personally just don't see it but then again I love the looter scooter!
Jund dies to bobs as well as treats them as dead draws late game sometimes. Bob also gets killed by the jund player often too just so they don't die. The lowlife loss from bob in jund is still a downside they just hope to control the opponents hand enough that they can do more damage than what's dealt to them. Yes on average bob probably does 1 maybe 1.5 damage to its player per turn but the advantage come t3 where this would be t4 at the very earliest depending on how you mulligan.
I got 3 matches in this am
2-0 gw value company
2-0 w/b taxes
2-0 u/b control
Love moon main and love that once infestation is out we don't need too much mana.
Yeah, if you peek earlier in the forums, I agree; moon is great for us. I find myself bringing in moon more than any other sideboard card, so it probably earns a MD spot.
Round 1 vs G/B Delirium: Win, 2-1 - The game he won he had a bonkerz draw with 3 Grim Flayers(this was round 2) and he managed to keep me off infestation with Abrupt Decay while roasting my Cryptbreaker. Starting to think that the Liliana and 4th Call should be there, after all(at least I felt that way during this match but that' nominal), that's the list that top 8'd a tournament that drew over 800 people, that's GOTTA count for something.
Round 2 vs titanshift: win, 2-1 - I played this deck back when it first came out with Summer Bloom before it was banned and it's MUCH slower without it, altho Azusa, Lost but seeking is good but it still packs a punch and without a way to deal with Valakut it has inevitability. In both games Blood Moon and Thoughtseize were all-stars, and they really just can't deal with our ability to make dudes constantly, especially if they're Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle is ruined.
Round 3 vs American control: loss, 1-2 - Good ol' red white and blue...it was actually the first deck I ever built when modern came out, but at that time it couldn't keep up with the combo decks that have since been neutered; but, this deck is still good. Wall of Omens is a real pain as it can staunch the bleeding long enough for them to get to cryptic turf, and at that point, you're right next to snapcaster+cryptic/helix/bolt and their colonnade. I think this might even be the toughest match I've played yet; mardu madness is built for a creature-based format for sure. Maybe some tweaking with Psychotic Episode, I dunno. Thoughtseize was good in this match, but felt like it only prolonged the inevitable. Sniper was also an atrocious draw; even pariah felt like it was has they have so much draw.
Round 4 va Affinity: This match is BAD. Cranial Plating is our biggest problem, unless they go under us, which happens more often than not. Anyone got some good tech vs affinity? Seems to be our worst match-up.
And BOTH require life, BOB usually costing most unless you get a land. I'm gonna try both and see what's better. Plus, visitor can draw you 1 card each turn, while bob only draws during your upkeep AND usually costs more life. I'll report.
Now all ya need to do is find a good planeswalker to run in that. Lilly probably works best.
My list is the same as posted above still. You don't really need a walker to sit behind the bridge because you're making an army to sit behind it. Then one you have 1-2 squee you are free to attack while your opponent is locked out. I actually just beat jundvine 2 matches in a row that way a minute ago. I also just beat titan shift with my new setup not seeing a bloodmoon at all. Fulminator reanimated was good enough to buy me plenty of time. In a world of ds everywhere now as well as eldrazi's I think my list is set up very nicely. I'll be playing it like this for awhile before making any other changes with the exception of the 1 flex spot. 3rd copter, 3rd moon, 4th call, or 1st hazoret not sure what's best there. Deck feels really good
That said, in your deck I think Hollow One gets way worse. I found with an infestation out, it almost always costed me 1 or 0, and although it doesn't fit the going wide plan, in syncs with dumping a bunch of cards, and with the added ability to cycle if need-be and then get it back with scrabbler while simultaneously making it cost 2 less is really good CA.
3 Ensnaring Bridge
Creature
3 Big Game Hunter
4 Cryptbreaker
4 Grave Scrabbler
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
3 Voldaren Pariah
4 Hallow One
3 Street Wraith
2 Blood Moon
2 Call the Bloodline
4 Zombie Infestation
Sorcery
4 Faithless Looting
Land
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Dragonskull Summit
6 Swamp
Pretty sure this is a pretty solid build.
Other than not agreeing with the hollow one, looting, and street I really don't think you want 4 check lands. You don't want to have one enter tapped in the first two turns. T1-T2 are key turns and having a land enter tapped is back breaking. It comes up with 1 so I can't imagine how often it comes up with 4.
Yeah you're right, we NEED to play one of our enablers on T2. 2 checklands is plenty; if we have a smooth turns 1 and 2 the deck generally does what it's supposed to and possibly messing with that is really, really, REALLY bad for our gameplan.
If you want me to be honest I don't care for it no. No snipers seems wrong, street wraith/hollow one seems like the "well their doing it so it must be right", and looting imo isn't where you want to be for your discard outlet (again feels like you're trying to mix this with the hollowvine deck). You have no way to kill small creatures and only 3 bgh for big creatures (ds/eldrazi's). Without sniper you have 4 1 drops in cryptbreaker (looting t1 isn't where you want to be I'd imagine unless you're just looking for an enchantment).
That's fine. I'm trying to help ouy guys build a deck that works.
The games I've seen with this deck the sniper does very little,
Isn't an out to the new deck, is too small an effect for the big beaters in modern.
Of course that's what it is. I'm going along with the ideas posted on this thread. I'm suggesting you use looting to find your actual answers. Rather than just snipers get actual card draw from squee, use it as an engine, and have the cards you actually need and want. Doubt you need a way to actually kill small creatures. This deck is designed to go wide. While also have card draw and selection. Big cheap guys can also be shut down with bridges. Bgh being in this deck is a concession to what y'all want. I wouldn't play with card personally. Imo, it doesn't provide enough pressure to combo and control. Sniper isn't really that good. Doesn't race well, doesn't do enough against combo and control. And doesn't stack up well against the format defining deck. (or bridge) Pretty much just using this as a way to set up early. Look for bridge, moon, or another answer or engine.
I'd suggest that turn 1 sniper isn't where you want to be. What does sniper do against DS, goyf, Emmy, planeswalkers, zoo rush, etc. It pretty much only puts in work against a few mana dorks. Then it fails there all too often since it doesn't come online until turn 3 usually. After a call or infestation is there.