When building a deck that has access to a card that is virtually the same but has different emphases. My case in point:
VS.
Of these two cards i can tell have different values; one is a turn faster but dies to 'bolt, the other lives but is a turn slower. How do I make the most optimal choice for that slot in a tempo deck?
What is the deck ? (BR/Jund Madness type deck ?)
What is the common removal (or blockers) you expect to face ?
Personally I'd evaluate Reckless Wurm higher for the evasion and 4th point of toughness over the haste of Incorrigible Youths.
Haste isn't always relevant, especially if you can "madness in" the card on the opponent's turn (end step).
What is the deck ? (BR/Jund Madness type deck ?)
What is the common removal (or blockers) you expect to face ?
Personally I'd evaluate Reckless Wurm higher for the evasion and 4th point of toughness over the haste of Incorrigible Youths.
Haste isn't always relevant, especially if you can "madness in" the card on the opponent's turn (end step).
It is madness, in BR, the common removal of the modern format and the standard tier 1 or 2 deck creatures. At the moment there is a strong death's shadow showing in my meta with a smattering of a few other combo and aggro decks here and there. I was leaning to the wurm as the youths seem the would just end up dying to a bolt as soon as i cast it.
A bit sad they didnt reprint the anger and filth in modern.
I did read that one, that version seemed a bit too slow. the one i am working on isn't vampire tribal, it just happens that the discard outlets are vampires
#I think that Smuggler's Copter is probably the best madness enabler as it is also a good card
(unlike Zombie Infestation), I'd run 2-4x of them in the deck.
#Ravenous Bloodseeker is a rather underwhelming as a creature, I'd suggest going with Heir of Falkenrath instead.
It only lets you discard once but with all the other enablers it should be enough and you get a much better creature (a 3/2 flier) out of the deal.
Would definitely consider that new artifact golem for this deck.
Also there is a raise dead that has madness of 0. I like that card in theory. Discard it and a dude to infest and madness the guy back. Discarded 2 cards technical but only paid 0 to to get one back. Then play the golem for 1. Then you also have the ability to get the discard effects and bring back a lord or whatever happens to have died.
#I think that Smuggler's Copter is probably the best madness enabler as it is also a good card
(unlike Zombie Infestation), I'd run 2-4x of them in the deck.
#Ravenous Bloodseeker is a rather underwhelming as a creature, I'd suggest going with Heir of Falkenrath instead.
It only lets you discard once but with all the other enablers it should be enough and you get a much better creature (a 3/2 flier) out of the deal.
#Fiery Temper works well with discarding but you can run Lightning Bolt which does the same thing without any setup/enabler needed.
#Without any way to get back your lands (like Life from the Loam) I'd advice running cards like Flame Jab or Raven's Crime as they're pretty weak anyway and you have a low land count as it is.
Same thing with Magmatic Insight, the card is too narrow and might be dead too often, you can use Insolent Neonate (or Tormenting Voice) instead.
#What is Street Wraith for ? Just a free cantrip for Hollow One ?
I'm not sure that it is worth a card.
#Bloodhall Priest is one of the better payoff options for a deck like this and I'd suggesting adding it
(even at the expense of some Reckless Wurm).
I know the bloodseeker does a terrible Aquamoeba impression, but it is repeatable for the turn he is out. Also, i chose it for a discard outlet in red so i could still have options if i don't happen to get black in my opening hand. but if i was to choose a black discard outlet it would be Oona's Prowler or my least favorite Trespasser il-vec
True, it would work better with noose constrictor, but the evasion is nice since we do not have filth or wonder in modern.
Fiery Temper is more resistant vs thoughtseize and its ilk. Granted I will most likely lose one to a 1st turn discard spell.
Flamejab/raven's crime are still playable since i don't need more than 4-5 mana to play the deck. With that they are still playable if discarded.
the insight is cheaper and does the same thing.
the wraith is draw, with the added bonus of being able to spit out a hollow one on turn 1 or 2.
Bloodhall is pretty terrible, without hellbent is just a 4/4 not to mention it's harder to cast.
As noted above the mana base isn't were it should be. Thus, it state quite in flux at the moment.
With this deck i am building it with the Tempo archetype in mind. I tried selecting the best options for a given type. But overall the deck doesn't need more discard outlets just higher quality ones. But alas, this is modern...
However, if there are more optimal cards for slots i will give it a try.
I was aware of call to the netherworldand did consider it to pick out the wraiths again. but decided it didn't do enough to pressure my opponent. Could you further explain your changes as to why you chose they way you did?
I was aware of call to the netherworldand did consider it to pick out the wraiths again. but decided it didn't do enough to pressure my opponent. Could you further explain your changes as to why you chose they way you did?
Lol. Just for beats. Pure smashy the facey. Deck would be grossly consistent. Is it good enough? No clue. Lol But could be a good starting point if you don't like the way the other deck handles.
I like the interaction with wraith and calls also. I could see good plays where you go turn 3 Gathan raiders. Cycle wraith, unmorph raiders discarding Calls to bring back wraith. Cycle it again then play 2 or so Holmes. Bonus points if that gets you hellbent. IDK. Just throwing out an idea.
I was aware of call to the netherworldand did consider it to pick out the wraiths again. but decided it didn't do enough to pressure my opponent. Could you further explain your changes as to why you chose they way you did?
Lol. Just for beats. Pure smashy the facey. Deck would be grossly consistent. Is it good enough? No clue. Lol But could be a good starting point if you don't like the way the other deck handles.
I like the interaction with wraith and calls also. I could see good plays where you go turn 3 Gathan raiders. Cycle wraith, unmorph raiders discarding Calls to bring back wraith. Cycle it again then play 2 or so Holmes. Bonus points if that gets you hellbent. IDK. Just throwing out an idea.
Hmm, how would your list fair against 'bolt and fatal push? I might end up splashing green fornoose constrictor
Here is the build I'm playing, it can be pretty fast with a draw that includes a couple of Bloodghasts and the lord effect of Stromkirk Condemned. Heir of Falkenrath is a pretty efficient creature here as well and most importantly has evasion.
Hmm, how would your list fair against 'bolt and fatal push? I might end up splashing green fornoose constrictor
Nearly perfect. Since the creatures mostly cost 5 and are 4/4s and 5/5s.
But it seems it dies to both pretty badly in the event you lose your discard outlet since you cant activate it more than once. Also, in this case anything under 4 dies to fatal.
Here is the build I'm playing, it can be pretty fast with a draw that includes a couple of Bloodghasts and the lord effect of Stromkirk Condemned. Heir of Falkenrath is a pretty efficient creature here as well and most importantly has evasion.
Once a turn is more than enough, the madness cost isn't free anyway and the deck doesn't have a lot of mana to cast/madness more than 1 creature a turn anyway so the restriction isn't really relevant most of the time.
Once a turn is more than enough, the madness cost isn't free anyway and the deck doesn't have a lot of mana to cast/madness more than 1 creature a turn anyway so the restriction isn't really relevant most of the time.
Oh that, played a version of squee/infestation a long time ago. It was a thing way back in the early 2000's. As for today i don't think it can get there.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
VS.
Of these two cards i can tell have different values; one is a turn faster but dies to 'bolt, the other lives but is a turn slower. How do I make the most optimal choice for that slot in a tempo deck?
What is the common removal (or blockers) you expect to face ?
Personally I'd evaluate Reckless Wurm higher for the evasion and 4th point of toughness over the haste of Incorrigible Youths.
Haste isn't always relevant, especially if you can "madness in" the card on the opponent's turn (end step).
It is madness, in BR, the common removal of the modern format and the standard tier 1 or 2 deck creatures. At the moment there is a strong death's shadow showing in my meta with a smattering of a few other combo and aggro decks here and there. I was leaning to the wurm as the youths seem the would just end up dying to a bolt as soon as i cast it.
A bit sad they didnt reprint the anger and filth in modern.
I did read that one, that version seemed a bit too slow. the one i am working on isn't vampire tribal, it just happens that the discard outlets are vampires
I've found that most of the good creatures for this deck (especially in BR without green) are mostly vampires anyway outside of Reckless Wurm.
Vampires also happen to have Falkenrath Gorger which is like a "madness lord" for the tribe.
this will make it a bit easier to see the direction i am moving in.
4 Hollow One
4 Bloodghast
4 Olivia's Dragoon
2 Ravenous Bloodseeker
4 Reckless Wurm
4 Street Wraith
1 Zombie Infestation
Instant (8)
4 Fiery Temper
4 Traitor's Clutch
Sorcery (10)
4 Faithless Looting
1 Flame Jab
3 Magmatic Insight
2 Raven's Crime
1 Bloodstained Mire
6 Mountain
4 Sulfurous Springs
7 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
A few notes, i know the mana base is off and the infestation is still in testing.
(unlike Zombie Infestation), I'd run 2-4x of them in the deck.
#Ravenous Bloodseeker is a rather underwhelming as a creature, I'd suggest going with Heir of Falkenrath instead.
It only lets you discard once but with all the other enablers it should be enough and you get a much better creature (a 3/2 flier) out of the deal.
#Traitor's Clutch isn't very good and can probably be replaced, you are unlikely to one-shot anyone and even with flashback the card isn't mana efficient or useful enough imho.
Something like Fatal Push, Terminate or even a discard spell like Collective Brutality or Inquisition of Kozilek/Thoughtseize would be much better.
#Fiery Temper works well with discarding but you can run Lightning Bolt which does the same thing without any setup/enabler needed.
#Without any way to get back your lands (like Life from the Loam) I'd advice against running cards like Flame Jab or Raven's Crime as they're pretty weak anyway and you have a low land count as it is.
Same thing with Magmatic Insight, the card is too narrow and might be dead too often, you can use Insolent Neonate (or Tormenting Voice) instead.
#What is Street Wraith for ? Just a free cantrip for Hollow One ?
I'm not sure that it is worth a card.
#Bloodhall Priest is one of the better payoff options for a deck like this and I'd suggesting adding it
(even at the expense of some Reckless Wurm).
Also there is a raise dead that has madness of 0. I like that card in theory. Discard it and a dude to infest and madness the guy back. Discarded 2 cards technical but only paid 0 to to get one back. Then play the golem for 1. Then you also have the ability to get the discard effects and bring back a lord or whatever happens to have died.
With this deck i am building it with the Tempo archetype in mind. I tried selecting the best options for a given type. But overall the deck doesn't need more discard outlets just higher quality ones. But alas, this is modern...
However, if there are more optimal cards for slots i will give it a try.
But I'm writing this post to possibly suggest a different take on this deck.
4 Hallowed One
4 Heir of Falkenrath
3 Bone Picker
4 Bloodghast
4 Streetwraith
4 Reckless Wurm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Call to the Netherworld
I was aware of call to the netherworldand did consider it to pick out the wraiths again. but decided it didn't do enough to pressure my opponent. Could you further explain your changes as to why you chose they way you did?
Lol. Just for beats. Pure smashy the facey. Deck would be grossly consistent. Is it good enough? No clue. Lol But could be a good starting point if you don't like the way the other deck handles.
I like the interaction with wraith and calls also. I could see good plays where you go turn 3 Gathan raiders. Cycle wraith, unmorph raiders discarding Calls to bring back wraith. Cycle it again then play 2 or so Holmes. Bonus points if that gets you hellbent. IDK. Just throwing out an idea.
Hmm, how would your list fair against 'bolt and fatal push? I might end up splashing green fornoose constrictor
Heir of Falkenrath is a pretty efficient creature here as well and most importantly has evasion.
4x Falkenrath Gorger
4x Bloodghast
4x Asylum Visitor
4x Heir of Falkenrath
4x Stromkirk Condemned
4x Bloodhall Priest
4x Reckless Wurm
Artifact (4)
4x Smuggler's Copter
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Fatal Push
Lands (21)
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Blood Crypt
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
4x Mutavault
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Swamp
1x Mountain
2x Rakdos Charm
2x Collective Brutality
2x Terminate
2x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Extirpate
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
Nearly perfect. Since the creatures mostly cost 5 and are 4/4s and 5/5s.
But it seems it dies to both pretty badly in the event you lose your discard outlet since you cant activate it more than once. Also, in this case anything under 4 dies to fatal.
this list seems pretty solid but how do you activate madness if your restricted to once a turn?
hmm, but doesn't that make bloodhall less useful?
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/35515_Daily-Digest-Squee.html
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=14061
https://www.channelfireball.com/videos/modern-monday-mardu-madness/
It plays a lot of horrible cards (Ruthless Sniper, Voldaren Pariah, Grave Scrabbler, Call the Bloodline, Zombie Infestation)
and I'm not sure that the synergy and incremental advantage it can get is enough to compensate for it.
Oh that, played a version of squee/infestation a long time ago. It was a thing way back in the early 2000's. As for today i don't think it can get there.