I've done a little bit of messing around with just UB.
It kind of boiled down to "why am I limiting myself to just these two colors"
as teachings lets you utilize a wide variety of options, which just UB do not have.
Splashing white or green in particular allows you tons of utility.
If you want to stick with a more "straight-forward, less painful, more consistent" style of control deck, you can just ditch the mystical teachings.
Anyone here toying with a UB teachings list draw go style?
I didn't like just U/b. I felt like there wasn't enough utility out of the 2 colors. Esper was great because the only cards that I played in the main with white were Esper Charm and Path to Exile. Esper Charm is a massive blowout sometimes.
Ultimately, I chose red though because of the extra reach to end games faster.
Could anyone here post a list (UB or Grixis) with good results?
This is the list that I've been piloting to good results. The deck looks a little awkward with the numbers but so far they have been working for me. I've done lots of testing and playing around with the numbers. This is about as good as this version of the deck is going to get. There may be other avenues that you want to take (Vendilion Clique or Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir) but I didn't think the other options were as impactful as I had originally anticipated.
I have also been a little underwhelmed with Slaughter Pact recently with all of the black creatures running around but the numbers of them are declining and Eldrazi is raising. So, for now it's still in the deck. I would replace it with a Terminate however, if the number of black creatures starts to pick up again.
The last thing you should know about this deck, it's not very good at fighting pure control decks. It can get the job done but we don't have as many counterspells as they do, we have a lot more removal that is dead in most cases, and we have way more top end than they do. It's a tough match-up but not unwinnable. Discard in Collective Brutality, Kolaghan's Command and out sideboard Duress go a long way when paired with Snapcaster Mage.
Edit: It is also notable that if the number of "Titan Shift" decks goes up, adding 1-2 more Shadow of Doubt is probably correct. And if the number of "Storm" decks keeps going up, adding more Disallow or even Mindbreak Trap is probably correct
With Storm Being so prevalent and with all the creature combo decks (I play at RIW Hobbies and a bunch of the guys took Bant counters company to the SCG Cincinnati this past weekend 10/21-10/22) I think this deck is really well positioned. I have lots of removal, Disallow makes perfect sense against Storm, and I have a lot of hate for most other match ups, i think this deck can do great.
(3) Disallow might be a lot in the deck considering I am still worried about the burn match up, I don't know what else to do against it though. Collected Brutality is really good in some matches and just abysmal in others. I'm not sure if I want to try to fit it in the 75 anymore or not. Concede the burn match up and focus on everything else seems to be where Im at until I can solve this problem.
Edit: The Disallows also help out the otherwise bad match up.... control. Pure Jeskai control decks used to have their way with me but these new iterations using spell queller seems to be in the prime spot for this deck to run over them in game one andget some help out of the board in game(s) 2/3
It's possible that the deck was good. It's also possible that his answered lined up well with your threats. I don't want you to think that I'm saying his deck was bad. Just giving out some input on the deck itself. It seems like its a little clunky.
This is the new version of the deck that I will be trying this weekend. I made some changes in the board to help combat Burn. I also wanted to help fight some of the big mana decks so I added some Shadow of Doubts. I also felt that The Scarab God might be able to help fight some of the creature combo decks.
Trying out another version of the deck soon. I figured it was time to try Search for Azcanta so I added 2 of them and added a Desolate Lighthouse for just a little bit more card selection
Updated list. I added 2 Blood Sun to the Sideboard to help fight the Titan Shift matchup. It shuts off our fetch lands, flipped Search for Azcanta, and our Desolate Lighthouse but I still think it's worth having to help the match. I will find out more once I test.
I've also cut Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir from the deck completely as I didn't find him very useful in most match ups. He was a big help against control but having access to the Collective Brutalitys in the board makes that match up a little bit better anyways.
It kind of boiled down to "why am I limiting myself to just these two colors"
as teachings lets you utilize a wide variety of options, which just UB do not have.
Splashing white or green in particular allows you tons of utility.
If you want to stick with a more "straight-forward, less painful, more consistent" style of control deck, you can just ditch the mystical teachings.
I didn't like just U/b. I felt like there wasn't enough utility out of the 2 colors. Esper was great because the only cards that I played in the main with white were Esper Charm and Path to Exile. Esper Charm is a massive blowout sometimes.
Ultimately, I chose red though because of the extra reach to end games faster.
This is the list that I've been piloting to good results. The deck looks a little awkward with the numbers but so far they have been working for me. I've done lots of testing and playing around with the numbers. This is about as good as this version of the deck is going to get. There may be other avenues that you want to take (Vendilion Clique or Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir) but I didn't think the other options were as impactful as I had originally anticipated.
I have also been a little underwhelmed with Slaughter Pact recently with all of the black creatures running around but the numbers of them are declining and Eldrazi is raising. So, for now it's still in the deck. I would replace it with a Terminate however, if the number of black creatures starts to pick up again.
The last thing you should know about this deck, it's not very good at fighting pure control decks. It can get the job done but we don't have as many counterspells as they do, we have a lot more removal that is dead in most cases, and we have way more top end than they do. It's a tough match-up but not unwinnable. Discard in Collective Brutality, Kolaghan's Command and out sideboard Duress go a long way when paired with Snapcaster Mage.
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Torrential Gearhulk
Instant/Sorcery:
3 Mystical Teachings
1 Consume the Meek
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Terminate
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Pact of Negation
3 Cryptic Command
2 Countersquall
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Spell Snare
1 Shadow of Doubt
2 Censor
2 Collective Brutality
3 Fatal Push
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Graven Cairns
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Duress
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Damnation
1 Disallow
2 Dispel
3 Gifted Aetherborn
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Surgical Extraction
Edit: It is also notable that if the number of "Titan Shift" decks goes up, adding 1-2 more Shadow of Doubt is probably correct. And if the number of "Storm" decks keeps going up, adding more Disallow or even Mindbreak Trap is probably correct
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Torrential Gearhulk
Instant/Sorcery:
3 Mystical Teachings
1 Consume the Meek
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Terminate
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Pact of Negation
3 Cryptic Command
2 Countersquall
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Spell Snare
4 Opt
1 Disallow
3 Fatal Push
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Graven Cairns
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Damnation
2 Disallow
2 Dispel
3 Gifted Aetherborn
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Surgical Extraction
With Storm Being so prevalent and with all the creature combo decks (I play at RIW Hobbies and a bunch of the guys took Bant counters company to the SCG Cincinnati this past weekend 10/21-10/22) I think this deck is really well positioned. I have lots of removal, Disallow makes perfect sense against Storm, and I have a lot of hate for most other match ups, i think this deck can do great.
(3) Disallow might be a lot in the deck considering I am still worried about the burn match up, I don't know what else to do against it though. Collected Brutality is really good in some matches and just abysmal in others. I'm not sure if I want to try to fit it in the 75 anymore or not. Concede the burn match up and focus on everything else seems to be where Im at until I can solve this problem.
Edit: The Disallows also help out the otherwise bad match up.... control. Pure Jeskai control decks used to have their way with me but these new iterations using spell queller seems to be in the prime spot for this deck to run over them in game one andget some help out of the board in game(s) 2/3
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Torrential Gearhulk
Instant/Sorcery:
3 Mystical Teachings
1 Consume the Meek
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Terminate
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Pact of Negation
3 Cryptic Command
2 Countersquall
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Snare
3 Shadow of Doubt
1 Syncopate
3 Fatal Push
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Graven Cairns
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Damnation
2 Dispel
3 Gifted Aetherborn
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Collective Brutality
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Mindbreak Trap
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Instant/Sorcery:
3 Mystical Teachings
1 Consume the Meek
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Terminate
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Pact of Negation
3 Cryptic Command
2 Countersquall
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Snare
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Logic Knot
3 Fatal Push
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Desolate Lighthouse
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Dispel
3 Gifted Aetherborn
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Collective Brutality
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Mindbreak Trap
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Torrential Gearhulk
Enchantments:
2 Search for Azcanta
Instants/Sorcery:
3 Mystical Teachings
1 Consume the Meek
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Terminate
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Pact of Negation
3 Cryptic Command
2 Countersquall
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Snare
2 Logic Knot
3 Fatal Push
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Desolate Lighthouse
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Dispel
3 Gifted Aetherborn
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Collective Brutality
2 Blood Sun
1 Mindbreak Trap
Updated list. I added 2 Blood Sun to the Sideboard to help fight the Titan Shift matchup. It shuts off our fetch lands, flipped Search for Azcanta, and our Desolate Lighthouse but I still think it's worth having to help the match. I will find out more once I test.
I've also cut Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir from the deck completely as I didn't find him very useful in most match ups. He was a big help against control but having access to the Collective Brutalitys in the board makes that match up a little bit better anyways.
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Torrential Gearhulk
Enchantments:
1 Search for Azcanta
Planeswalkers:
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Instants/Sorcery:
3 Mystical Teachings
1 Consume the Meek
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Terminate
1 Pact of Negation
3 Cryptic Command
2 Wizard's Retort
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Snare
2 Logic Knot
3 Fatal Push
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Sunken Ruins
3 Island
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Dispel
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Collective Brutality
3 Gifted Aetherborn
1 Damnation
Updating the list to try out. Not sure that this is the correct sideboard. Will update after testing.