I don't think we will find a better counterspell that stubborn. Maybe a squall in the board but I have no room and it so similar to stubborn just morendiffixult to cast. I run 3 rejections in the board and without a 4th stubborn since I needed to make room for sweepers.
I'm not looking for a better counterspell, but one to complement denial (which i run 4of main).
Match : Junk (big, rhinos etc)
Game 1 went well but was very close and very lucky. After tonnes removal from both sides it quickly came down to a topdeck war. We were in a bit of trouble after opp stuck a lili, last hope with a rhino in the bin. didn't have enough mana to play the rhino so ticked up lili and passed. We are on 2 life and hellbent... Draw step saves us with our singleton maelstrom pulse to take care of the lili. Opp procedes to draw lands while we draw traverse > find snap > flashback traverse > find shadow > play shadow with all our excess mana Opp died next turn.
Game 2 played similar to game one except this time opp drew 3 copies of lingering souls and got there off the back of an army of flying tokens through a goyf and a large shadow chumps for days.
Game three was very close to playing out like game 2. Definitely feel I need a golgari charm or 2 in the board for lingering souls decks. Anyway we got there by traversing for grim flayer to trample over tokens and just milled everything till we found maelstrom pulse. pulse killed 6 tokens when we finally drew it (third draw step) we had dropped to 5 life. Luckily our opp bricked and we drew an Ashiok which milled 2 rhinos and our opp bricked again. swung in for 4, neg 4 ashiok and helix effect kills our opp. That sweet sweet justice!
Match 2: Merfolk
Game 1 was very 1 sided for us. Opp was obviously very tired as we played a turn 1 thoughtseize on the play.. and took aether vial from a hand of 2 silvergill, 2 lords and a kira.. Opp played a cavern on turn 1 and just 'forgot' to play vial. Oh well, good news for us. He bricks on lands for 2 turns while we strip his hand some more and stick a 5/6 goyf. he finally draws land and starts chumping with silvergills, we get a lili and a shadow and abrupt decay cleans up kira. Go to game 2.
Game 2 was much closer. We took reejery from hand with discard, pushed a silvergill, then snap pushed a lord the next turn and blocked a mutavault, leaving opp with just a silvergill in play, 1 dispel and 1 seas claim in hand. We drew 4 lands in a row while he drew lord of atlantis into master master... GG
Game 3 we won on 1 life. very close game and we were lucky opp didn't have a turn 1 vial otherwise we would definitely have lost. It was tense. Saved by stubborn denial! After a little back and forth it came down to a race, opp attacked us aggressively instead of keeping back blockers for a pair of goyfs. We crack in and play a small shadow. opp untaps and plays a second lord.. I quickly do the math.. the attack (with island walk) leaves us at 1! We only have 1 card in hand and it's a stubborn denial.. opp swings the team, taking us to 1, then casts vapor snag targeting shadow.. We counter it and win on the back swing. Wooo!
Match 3: Esper As Foretold
Rough games here both went pretty much the same - game 1 opponent drew 9 extra cards off ancestral visions and we couldn't stick a threat (understandably). We died to colonnade beats. Game 2 he drew 6 extra cards using as foretold and also used it to kill our stuff, cast snapcaster mage for free and flashing back cryptic, cast mana leak on lili... card is busted lol. anyway, he landed a gideon and cast a restore balance, wiping away our last goyf and using flagstones to stay ahead of us on lands. gideon turning into a 5/5 indestructible got the job done for opp from there
Match 4: Ad naus
This MU seemed super favourable.
Game 1 he suspended 2 lotus blooms but had nothing else going on, we took an anticipate and an echoing truth from his hand with discard and rode a pair of tarmogoyfs to victory after abrupt decay killed a bloom to pump them to 5/6's.
Game 2 our opp top decked the ad naus for the combo win after landing an unlife the turn before, we was dead in 2 swing even through unlife
Game 3 opp mull'ed to 5 and scryed top. We thought scoured him, hitting angels grace and a land. He played a scry land and passed. We untapped, played a thoughtseize, took his ad naus and then surgically extracted it. Opp was borrowing the deck from a friend and quickly went to ask him if there was anyway he could still win.. his friend said "maybe if you draw storm and a keep sandbagging lands but probably not" I showed him my hand of goyf, goyf, shadow, denial and he scooped 'em up lol.
Overall 3-1. Pretty good showing, first time testing this particular pile of cards. Flayer was new for me, seemed pretty good actually, turned on delirium a couple of times, put removal on top or threats depending on what I needed etc. Nice to help set up but is kinda on the slowish side (only 4 power, what is this pleb?) but trample is relevant in some cases. In fact, I'm toying with the idea of running 1x Rancor... Anyway, both the merfolk and the abzan MU's didn't feel very strong, despite us taking the matches. Definitely feel they could have easily gone the other way if we hadn't got lucky. Islandwalk is a big problem and lingering souls is a huge beating. As foretold was brutal but that's probably to be expected of most control decks. Package of hand disruption+thoughtscour+surgical continues to be combo kryptonite.
Thanks for reading! Hope this was helpful in some way. If you have any suggestions or feedback on the list, please let me know
Match : Junk (big, rhinos etc)
Game 1 went well but was very close and very lucky. After tonnes removal from both sides it quickly came down to a topdeck war. We were in a bit of trouble after opp stuck a lili, last hope with a rhino in the bin. didn't have enough mana to play the rhino so ticked up lili and passed. We are on 2 life and hellbent... Draw step saves us with our singleton maelstrom pulse to take care of the lili. Opp procedes to draw lands while we draw traverse > find snap > flashback traverse > find shadow > play shadow with all our excess mana Opp died next turn.
Game 2 played similar to game one except this time opp drew 3 copies of lingering souls and got there off the back of an army of flying tokens through a goyf and a large shadow chumps for days.
Game three was very close to playing out like game 2. Definitely feel I need a golgari charm or 2 in the board for lingering souls decks. Anyway we got there by traversing for grim flayer to trample over tokens and just milled everything till we found maelstrom pulse. pulse killed 6 tokens when we finally drew it (third draw step) we had dropped to 5 life. Luckily our opp bricked and we drew an Ashiok which milled 2 rhinos and our opp bricked again. swung in for 4, neg 4 ashiok and helix effect kills our opp. That sweet sweet justice!
Match 2: Merfolk
Game 1 was very 1 sided for us. Opp was obviously very tired as we played a turn 1 thoughtseize on the play.. and took aether vial from a hand of 2 silvergill, 2 lords and a kira.. Opp played a cavern on turn 1 and just 'forgot' to play vial. Oh well, good news for us. He bricks on lands for 2 turns while we strip his hand some more and stick a 5/6 goyf. he finally draws land and starts chumping with silvergills, we get a lili and a shadow and abrupt decay cleans up kira. Go to game 2.
Game 2 was much closer. We took reejery from hand with discard, pushed a silvergill, then snap pushed a lord the next turn and blocked a mutavault, leaving opp with just a silvergill in play, 1 dispel and 1 seas claim in hand. We drew 4 lands in a row while he drew lord of atlantis into master master... GG
Game 3 we won on 1 life. very close game and we were lucky opp didn't have a turn 1 vial otherwise we would definitely have lost. It was tense. Saved by stubborn denial! After a little back and forth it came down to a race, opp attacked us aggressively instead of keeping back blockers for a pair of goyfs. We crack in and play a small shadow. opp untaps and plays a second lord.. I quickly do the math.. the attack (with island walk) leaves us at 1! We only have 1 card in hand and it's a stubborn denial.. opp swings the team, taking us to 1, then casts vapor snag targeting shadow.. We counter it and win on the back swing. Wooo!
Match 3: Esper As Foretold
Rough games here both went pretty much the same - game 1 opponent drew 9 extra cards off ancestral visions and we couldn't stick a threat (understandably). We died to colonnade beats. Game 2 he drew 6 extra cards using as foretold and also used it to kill our stuff, cast snapcaster mage for free and flashing back cryptic, cast mana leak on lili... card is busted lol. anyway, he landed a gideon and cast a restore balance, wiping away our last goyf and using flagstones to stay ahead of us on lands. gideon turning into a 5/5 indestructible got the job done for opp from there
Match 4: Ad naus
This MU seemed super favourable.
Game 1 he suspended 2 lotus blooms but had nothing else going on, we took an anticipate and an echoing truth from his hand with discard and rode a pair of tarmogoyfs to victory after abrupt decay killed a bloom to pump them to 5/6's.
Game 2 our opp top decked the ad naus for the combo win after landing an unlife the turn before, we was dead in 2 swing even through unlife
Game 3 opp mull'ed to 5 and scryed top. We thought scoured him, hitting angels grace and a land. He played a scry land and passed. We untapped, played a thoughtseize, took his ad naus and then surgically extracted it. Opp was borrowing the deck from a friend and quickly went to ask him if there was anyway he could still win.. his friend said "maybe if you draw storm and a keep sandbagging lands but probably not" I showed him my hand of goyf, goyf, shadow, denial and he scooped 'em up lol.
Overall 3-1. Pretty good showing, first time testing this particular pile of cards. Flayer was new for me, seemed pretty good actually, turned on delirium a couple of times, put removal on top or threats depending on what I needed etc. Nice to help set up but is kinda on the slowish side (only 4 power, what is this pleb?) but trample is relevant in some cases. In fact, I'm toying with the idea of running 1x Rancor... Anyway, both the merfolk and the abzan MU's didn't feel very strong, despite us taking the matches. Definitely feel they could have easily gone the other way if we hadn't got lucky. Islandwalk is a big problem and lingering souls is a huge beating. As foretold was brutal but that's probably to be expected of most control decks. Package of hand disruption+thoughtscour+surgical continues to be combo kryptonite.
Thanks for reading! Hope this was helpful in some way. If you have any suggestions or feedback on the list, please let me know
Thx for your report! You asked for feedback on the list:
1. Add Street Wraith ASAP!
2. Architects and scour are effects you don't want to pay mana for (see 1.)
3. Change the Grim Flayer to more Snapcaster
All my comments point towards the "main decklist" skullscorcher and me are advocating for.
@1470MAN Thanks for the report, and congrats on the 3-1! I love Surgical Extraction in this deck because we can interact on pretty much every axis to stop them (discard, removal, and countermagic) and then neuter their deck while growing our own threat.
I recommend finding room for some Golgari Charms and a full set of Stubborn Denial in your 75. Charm is great against a ton of decks that beat up on us, and would have given you a fighting chance against As Foretold (blanks Supreme Verdict and Fatal Push, kills As Foretold and Spreading Seas). Stubborn Denial is probably the best counter in the format right now, and fittingly it's only great in a BG deck.
Yes, that's 62 cards maindeck, seemingly just for 2 more fetchlands. Architects of Will, an extra Lili, and Grim Flayers take the place of one Tarmogoyf and Snapcaster Mage. And the white splash is maintained in the sideboard. But Sultai, specifically because of the strength of Stubborn Denial, is now a legitimate build of Death's Shadow Aggro.
EDIT: On my phone but Sultai Shadow came in 6th at the Modern Open in Baltimore.
Yes, that's 62 cards maindeck, seemingly just for 2 more fetchlands. Architects of Will, an extra Lili, and Grim Flayers take the place of one Tarmogoyf and Snapcaster Mage. And the white splash is maintained in the sideboard. But Sultai, specifically because of the strength of Stubborn Denial, is now a legitimate build of Death's Shadow Aggro.
EDIT: On my phone but Sultai Shadow came in 6th at the Modern Open in Baltimore.
I have some thoughts about the future of the deck given the recent trends regarding Death's Shadow. Between the four major events that happened this weekend, Death's Shadow with blue splash is just as common as with a white one, and Grixis Shadow is solidly Tier 1. This makes Stubborn Denial the premier counterspell in Modern, meaning that people will begin to expect and, to the extent they are able, play around it. Regardless, 3x Stubborn Denial is now standard in every Death's Shadow Aggro's 75, and most are running them maindeck. I don't know if this is good or bad for us; it feels like it might hurt our Death's Shadow Aggro matchup a little, where we were somewhat favored (at least in my experience).
A recognizable Sultai list placed 6th at the Baltimore Open. The list skews a little closer to Grixis than our stock list, especially running a full set of Serum Visions, and plays only 3 Traverse the Ulvenwald and two maindeck Snapcaster Mage. Apart from the Serum Visions, I really like this list, and have been having luck with just two maindeck Snapcaster Mage and a pair of Liliana, the Last Hope. Oftentimes being able to "flashback" a creature is better than a spell, so having a split between her and Snapcaster feels good. I think the balance between aggro and longevity is Sultai's strength, and finding the right number of Snapcaster feels like the key. Four has been a little too slow for me recently, especially when plan A is always to flood the field with Death's Shadow and Tarmogoyf.
Thanks for all the feedback guys, really appreciated. I'll be tweaking the list and playing in another decent FNM sized modern tournament either later this week or next week - will post a breakdown of matches along with updated deck list then!
Hello, I have been lurking here for a couple weeks. Really enjoying Sultai Death Shadow. Wasn't a big fan of bauble but continued to use them up until the success of Grixis DS where I adapted cards like Serium Visions and Tasigur. Today my LGS hosted thier weekly Tuesday Night Modern where I went 4-0. Very Pleased with how it has preformed in MTGO and paper.
Should have included it.
Round 1: 2-0 (R/G Devotion)
His deck was about speed. How fast he could make mana. Sadly Abrupt decay was the all-star for hitting his enchantments while Fatal Push killed his Abor Elf and Satr. Stubborn Denial countering his Tooth and Nail kept me going. Game 2 he managed to get 14 mana with Emrakul in his hand. I thoughtseize'd it away.
Round 2: 2-1 (Elves)
He was a very new Elf player. I am a seasoned elf player but I did lose game 1. Kept a 1 lander with a visions that didnt pay off. Game 2 and 3 I won. Strongly feel that He was at a huge disadvantage since I have been playing Modern Elves for almost 2 years now. Also Snapcaster, Flaying Tendrils was MVC.
Round 3: 2-0? (Elves)
Long time friend there and borrowed my foiled elf deck. He owe me 2 concession from IQs and we really don't enjoy playing each other. He conceded so we could get food.
Round 4: 2-1 (Mardu)
Game 1, Lingering Souls won him the game.
Game 2, I was super aggressive and had 3 death shadows out really early with 6 life left.
Game 3 was a great game. Sadly his turn 2(my turn 1), he casted Collective Brutality discarding Lingering Souls. I Stubborn Denial'd it and paid 2 life to surgical them all out. It was the best thing I could have done against that match. Super glad and he wasn't happy. I did reassure him that now that all the lingering Souls from his deck are gone, I will eventally draw a few dead cards I brought in only for Lingering Souls.
Went to GP Copenhagen with Bug shadow and went 5-4. Doesnt sound impressive but i was impressed by the decks and I had a lot of good and exciting games.
List was with 3 snap, 3 denial, 2 veil main, 3 iok
Here are some notes from the games:
R1 turned out a had a bye from my PWPs.. very nice
R2 UW merfolk 2-1
G1 things are looking good until he spreading seas my only green source and im stuck with 2 goyf and pulse in hand. He overruns me
G2 is more tight and i get to "daze" a rest in peace in his second turn since i opted not to play anythin turn 2. Im riding big creatures for the win
G3 is the same, where he tries to survive by sticking a worship (tapped out). I attack him to 3 and next turn he goes master of waves (he had two in hand). I am sitting with pulse and waited for a time to nuke the worship but just finish the master and attack for the win.
R3 Grixis Shadow 0-2
G1 and G2 he answers all my threats where i cant answer his (angler).. oh well. i had no feet on the ground.
R4 Living End 2-1
G1 hadnt faced the new LE since it got its last cards from amonkhet. So i die quickly to a living end that brings back 4-5 creatures. My liliana sacs one of them and push takes another, but the rest are 5CMC and untouchable for me..
G2 I counter everything important with denials and lands a fast beater
G3 Turn 1 nihil and 2 stubborn as back up while I murder my opponent
R5 Lantern control 2-0
G1 i love this matchup. my win rate is 100%, albeit only a few games played. I keep attacking while he tries to built up a controlling position. He has a third codex after I destroy the ohers but no combo or lock. Eventually i hardcounter a brdige and win
G2 is the same, but he has grafdigger, the regeneration 0 mana artifact and needle on wraith or lily. I get a creature going tho and cerem. reject his bridge. QUick games
R6 Affinity 0-2
An affinity build where i play poorly and pose no threat and is beaten down. He has 3 master of etherium which makes it hard. G2 is the same
R7 AD nauseaum 2-0
First time playing against this deck with bug shadow and was looking forward to it. Knowing that rejections are quite good i boarded them in. I dont remember much of the games but i discard him some, counter some, and beat quickly both games
R8 Esper 1-2
A very bad matchup with souls, narset, liliana and huge creatures i cant answer. Oh and push+path+snap. auch. I get him one game with timely denials i think. otherwise i cant cope with his card advantage and removal
R9 Grixis control 1-2
Winner goes to day 2 and he starts by turn 2 tasigur and i have a 3/4 goyf (creautre, and sourcery). It never grows tho, as i only have lands and traverse in hand, so the tassi goes all the way eventually.
G2 my decks work great and we have a tight match with snaps and counterspells.
G3 is the most tight game i've ever played and most grindy. We end up in turn 40 or something in top deck mode where each of us have anwswers all the time. I actually have 3 goyf damnation'ed but had liliana and shadows in hand. He kept klling things and i at some point decide to recure a shadow with lily rather that ticking up and going for slow ultimate kill, which seems like the best way. I eventually cannot answer his last tasigur and dies.
Great game tho.
Not the most descriptive report i know but its what you get when brain is running full time for 8 hours.
Great to play the deck and it worked really good.
MVP was denial - insane card and I am going back to 4
I mulliganed 1-2 times which is great
I felt i lost the matchups where i wasn't really favored anyway so im okay with the losses.
Thx for your report! The delve creatures are problematic for our deck. I run two maelstorm in the sb for them. Tokens and affinity are also prblematic. Did you run the Flaying tendrils in your sb)
I'm really interested in trying this version of deaths shadow out. I'm missing two baubles currently. Also been reading through the thread. Deck seems very versatile. Looking forward to testing soon.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Little angel, go away come again some other day the Devil has my ear today I'll never hear a word you say. He promised I would find a little solace and some peace of mind. Whatever. just as long as I don't feel so desperate and ravenous.
Been trying some spicy 1-ofs online. Mostly to play against opposing DS. Been blowing players out with Vapor Snag. Personally going mainboard one for an up coming IQ. I have also been playing testing with Unnatural Predation. You wouldn't want to target your opponents creatures with Temur Battle Rage but giving your opponents blocked goyf/DS trample saves your death's Shadow by growing after damage is assigned and dealt. Also can just win the game for you. I wouldn't bring Unnatural Predation to a competitive event but in testing was hilarious and a great spicy 1-of with snapcasters.
Been trying some spicy 1-ofs online. Mostly to play against opposing DS. Been blowing players out with Vapor Snag. Personally going mainboard one for an up coming IQ. I have also been playing testing with Unnatural Predation. You wouldn't want to target your opponents creatures with Temur Battle Rage but giving your opponents blocked goyf/DS trample saves your death's Shadow by growing after damage is assigned and dealt. Also can just win the game for you. I wouldn't bring Unnatural Predation to a competitive event but in testing was hilarious and a great spicy 1-of with snapcasters.
This deck really seems to lack the card advantage that Kolaghan's Command provides. Any thoughts on something like Grim Discovery or Hag Hedge-mage as possible one of's.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Little angel, go away come again some other day the Devil has my ear today I'll never hear a word you say. He promised I would find a little solace and some peace of mind. Whatever. just as long as I don't feel so desperate and ravenous.
Is anyone still working on this deck? Not specifically related to my post, but here's my list for those interested, which I like but am tweaking constantly.
The deck has some really good draws. It's weaker to graveyard hate than I'd like but the payoff is quite high too.
On paper, combining the consistent size of Tarmogoyf and Death's Shadow with discard spells and Stubborn Denial and the grinding potential of Snapcaster Mage while maintaining excellent mana efficiency seems awesome.
According to the rest of the internet, Sultai Shadow is all but non-existent. I'm interested to hear what people's thoughts are on this:
The thing that makes Sultai Shadow, and indeed Sultai in general worse than Grixis or Jund is a grindy 2-for-1 type card like Kolaghan's Command. Without it, we get to 1-for-1 over and over again, but never really gaining any advantage, especially if we play against Grixis with its Snap-KCommand loops.
Spell Pierce
Negate
Countersquall
Logic Knot
Deprive
Disdainful Stroke
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
I'm not looking for a better counterspell, but one to complement denial (which i run 4of main).
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
The guy realy likes his scours. We not anymore ;-)
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
4x Thoughtseize
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Dismember
3x Fatal Push
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Stubborn Denial
3x Mishra's Bauble
4x Thought Scour
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
4x Death's Shadow
2x Grim Flayer
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Breeding Pool
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Overgrown Tomb
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Watery Grave
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Collective Brutality
1x Damnation
2x Dispel
2x Fulminator Mage
1x Nature's Claim
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Surgical Extraction
Match : Junk (big, rhinos etc)
Game 1 went well but was very close and very lucky. After tonnes removal from both sides it quickly came down to a topdeck war. We were in a bit of trouble after opp stuck a lili, last hope with a rhino in the bin. didn't have enough mana to play the rhino so ticked up lili and passed. We are on 2 life and hellbent... Draw step saves us with our singleton maelstrom pulse to take care of the lili. Opp procedes to draw lands while we draw traverse > find snap > flashback traverse > find shadow > play shadow with all our excess mana Opp died next turn.
Game 2 played similar to game one except this time opp drew 3 copies of lingering souls and got there off the back of an army of flying tokens through a goyf and a large shadow chumps for days.
Game three was very close to playing out like game 2. Definitely feel I need a golgari charm or 2 in the board for lingering souls decks. Anyway we got there by traversing for grim flayer to trample over tokens and just milled everything till we found maelstrom pulse. pulse killed 6 tokens when we finally drew it (third draw step) we had dropped to 5 life. Luckily our opp bricked and we drew an Ashiok which milled 2 rhinos and our opp bricked again. swung in for 4, neg 4 ashiok and helix effect kills our opp. That sweet sweet justice!
Match 2: Merfolk
Game 1 was very 1 sided for us. Opp was obviously very tired as we played a turn 1 thoughtseize on the play.. and took aether vial from a hand of 2 silvergill, 2 lords and a kira.. Opp played a cavern on turn 1 and just 'forgot' to play vial. Oh well, good news for us. He bricks on lands for 2 turns while we strip his hand some more and stick a 5/6 goyf. he finally draws land and starts chumping with silvergills, we get a lili and a shadow and abrupt decay cleans up kira. Go to game 2.
Game 2 was much closer. We took reejery from hand with discard, pushed a silvergill, then snap pushed a lord the next turn and blocked a mutavault, leaving opp with just a silvergill in play, 1 dispel and 1 seas claim in hand. We drew 4 lands in a row while he drew lord of atlantis into master master... GG
Game 3 we won on 1 life. very close game and we were lucky opp didn't have a turn 1 vial otherwise we would definitely have lost. It was tense. Saved by stubborn denial! After a little back and forth it came down to a race, opp attacked us aggressively instead of keeping back blockers for a pair of goyfs. We crack in and play a small shadow. opp untaps and plays a second lord.. I quickly do the math.. the attack (with island walk) leaves us at 1! We only have 1 card in hand and it's a stubborn denial.. opp swings the team, taking us to 1, then casts vapor snag targeting shadow.. We counter it and win on the back swing. Wooo!
Match 3: Esper As Foretold
Rough games here both went pretty much the same - game 1 opponent drew 9 extra cards off ancestral visions and we couldn't stick a threat (understandably). We died to colonnade beats. Game 2 he drew 6 extra cards using as foretold and also used it to kill our stuff, cast snapcaster mage for free and flashing back cryptic, cast mana leak on lili... card is busted lol. anyway, he landed a gideon and cast a restore balance, wiping away our last goyf and using flagstones to stay ahead of us on lands. gideon turning into a 5/5 indestructible got the job done for opp from there
Match 4: Ad naus
This MU seemed super favourable.
Game 1 he suspended 2 lotus blooms but had nothing else going on, we took an anticipate and an echoing truth from his hand with discard and rode a pair of tarmogoyfs to victory after abrupt decay killed a bloom to pump them to 5/6's.
Game 2 our opp top decked the ad naus for the combo win after landing an unlife the turn before, we was dead in 2 swing even through unlife
Game 3 opp mull'ed to 5 and scryed top. We thought scoured him, hitting angels grace and a land. He played a scry land and passed. We untapped, played a thoughtseize, took his ad naus and then surgically extracted it. Opp was borrowing the deck from a friend and quickly went to ask him if there was anyway he could still win.. his friend said "maybe if you draw storm and a keep sandbagging lands but probably not" I showed him my hand of goyf, goyf, shadow, denial and he scooped 'em up lol.
Overall 3-1. Pretty good showing, first time testing this particular pile of cards. Flayer was new for me, seemed pretty good actually, turned on delirium a couple of times, put removal on top or threats depending on what I needed etc. Nice to help set up but is kinda on the slowish side (only 4 power, what is this pleb?) but trample is relevant in some cases. In fact, I'm toying with the idea of running 1x Rancor... Anyway, both the merfolk and the abzan MU's didn't feel very strong, despite us taking the matches. Definitely feel they could have easily gone the other way if we hadn't got lucky. Islandwalk is a big problem and lingering souls is a huge beating. As foretold was brutal but that's probably to be expected of most control decks. Package of hand disruption+thoughtscour+surgical continues to be combo kryptonite.
Thanks for reading! Hope this was helpful in some way. If you have any suggestions or feedback on the list, please let me know
Legacy: RUG Delver
Thx for your report! You asked for feedback on the list:
1. Add Street Wraith ASAP!
2. Architects and scour are effects you don't want to pay mana for (see 1.)
3. Change the Grim Flayer to more Snapcaster
All my comments point towards the "main decklist" skullscorcher and me are advocating for.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
I recommend finding room for some Golgari Charms and a full set of Stubborn Denial in your 75. Charm is great against a ton of decks that beat up on us, and would have given you a fighting chance against As Foretold (blanks Supreme Verdict and Fatal Push, kills As Foretold and Spreading Seas). Stubborn Denial is probably the best counter in the format right now, and fittingly it's only great in a BG deck.
Also, out of curiosity, why not run Street Wraith?
3 Liliana of the Veil
Creature (14)
4 Death's Shadow
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Grim Flayer
4 Street Wraith
1 Architects of Will
Sorcery (12)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
Instant (9)
4 Fatal Push
2 Stubborn Denial
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Mishra's Bauble
Land (20)
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
2 Windswept Heath
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Watery Grave
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Stubborn Denial
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Stony Silence
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Collective Brutality
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Lingering Souls
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Phyrexian Unlife
Yes, that's 62 cards maindeck, seemingly just for 2 more fetchlands. Architects of Will, an extra Lili, and Grim Flayers take the place of one Tarmogoyf and Snapcaster Mage. And the white splash is maintained in the sideboard. But Sultai, specifically because of the strength of Stubborn Denial, is now a legitimate build of Death's Shadow Aggro.
EDIT: On my phone but Sultai Shadow came in 6th at the Modern Open in Baltimore.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/658341#online
Any chance that we are getting promoted from "deck creation" to "developing competitive" (or even tier2)?
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
A recognizable Sultai list placed 6th at the Baltimore Open. The list skews a little closer to Grixis than our stock list, especially running a full set of Serum Visions, and plays only 3 Traverse the Ulvenwald and two maindeck Snapcaster Mage. Apart from the Serum Visions, I really like this list, and have been having luck with just two maindeck Snapcaster Mage and a pair of Liliana, the Last Hope. Oftentimes being able to "flashback" a creature is better than a spell, so having a split between her and Snapcaster feels good. I think the balance between aggro and longevity is Sultai's strength, and finding the right number of Snapcaster feels like the key. Four has been a little too slow for me recently, especially when plan A is always to flood the field with Death's Shadow and Tarmogoyf.
Legacy: RUG Delver
4x Death's Shadow
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Street Wraith
3x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tasigur, The Golden Fang
Instant (10)
4x Fatal Push
3x Stubborn Denial
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Dismember
Sorcery (13)
4x Serum Visions
4x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Traverse The Ulvenwald
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Liliana of the Veil
Land (18)
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Polluted Delta
2x Watery Grave
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Breeding Pool
1x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Golgari Charm
1x Flaying Tendrils
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Fulminator Mage
1x Threads of Disloyalty
1x Damnation
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Collective Brutality
2x Spreading Seas
Round 1: 2-0 (R/G Devotion)
His deck was about speed. How fast he could make mana. Sadly Abrupt decay was the all-star for hitting his enchantments while Fatal Push killed his Abor Elf and Satr. Stubborn Denial countering his Tooth and Nail kept me going. Game 2 he managed to get 14 mana with Emrakul in his hand. I thoughtseize'd it away.
Round 2: 2-1 (Elves)
He was a very new Elf player. I am a seasoned elf player but I did lose game 1. Kept a 1 lander with a visions that didnt pay off. Game 2 and 3 I won. Strongly feel that He was at a huge disadvantage since I have been playing Modern Elves for almost 2 years now. Also Snapcaster, Flaying Tendrils was MVC.
Round 3: 2-0? (Elves)
Long time friend there and borrowed my foiled elf deck. He owe me 2 concession from IQs and we really don't enjoy playing each other. He conceded so we could get food.
Round 4: 2-1 (Mardu)
Game 1, Lingering Souls won him the game.
Game 2, I was super aggressive and had 3 death shadows out really early with 6 life left.
Game 3 was a great game. Sadly his turn 2(my turn 1), he casted Collective Brutality discarding Lingering Souls. I Stubborn Denial'd it and paid 2 life to surgical them all out. It was the best thing I could have done against that match. Super glad and he wasn't happy. I did reassure him that now that all the lingering Souls from his deck are gone, I will eventally draw a few dead cards I brought in only for Lingering Souls.
Thx for your report! The delve creatures are problematic for our deck. I run two maelstorm in the sb for them. Tokens and affinity are also prblematic. Did you run the Flaying tendrils in your sb)
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
To improve the MU against the delve threats, I'll test a new removal suite:
2 Fatal Push
2 Dismember
2 Abrupt Decay
It could be that the disability to kill large goyfs and shadows reduces the viability of dismember compared to push. Testing will tell...
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
I run 3 Fatal, 3 Abrupt and 2 Dismember. Thinking of cutting one abrupt for another stubborn denial ( had 3 ).
Running 3 Snapcasters at the moment. That's why I'm not going full playset of fatal.
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=15782&d=296833&f=MO
18 LANDS
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
17 CREATURES
4 Death's Shadow
2 Grim Flayer
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
21 INSTANTS and SORC.
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
4 Fatal Push
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Serum Visions
3 Stubborn Denial
4 Thoughtseize
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 OTHER SPELLS
4 Mishra's Bauble
SIDEBOARD
3 Collective Brutality
1 Creeping Corrosion
3 Flaying Tendrils
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Stubborn Denial
Serum Vision over Inquisition of Kozilek is something to discuss.
A 2-2 split between Grim Flayer and Snapcaster Mage is also interesting.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
Unnatural Predation and Vapor Snag are effects that are not worth a card IMO. The card disadvantage is real.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
4 Death's Shadow
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Flayer
2 Architects of Will
Planeswalkers
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Liliana of the Veil
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Traverse the Ulvenwald
Instants
3 Fatal Push
4 Thought Scour
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Go for the Throat
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Watery Grave
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Forest
I've been adjusting it a lot. Street Wraith vs Architects of Will/Thought Scour, Tasigur, the Golden Fang vs Grim Flayer, Bitterblossom, land configuration.
The deck has some really good draws. It's weaker to graveyard hate than I'd like but the payoff is quite high too.
On paper, combining the consistent size of Tarmogoyf and Death's Shadow with discard spells and Stubborn Denial and the grinding potential of Snapcaster Mage while maintaining excellent mana efficiency seems awesome.
According to the rest of the internet, Sultai Shadow is all but non-existent. I'm interested to hear what people's thoughts are on this:
What's holding Sultai Shadow back in general?
UBRGrixis Kiki Control
BGUSultai Shadow
GWRBushwhacker Zoo
EDH:
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose
GWU Roon of the Hidden Realm
WUB Puresteel Midrange WUB