Is anyone still working on this deck? Not specifically related to my post, but here's my list for those interested, which I like but am tweaking constantly.
The deck has some really good draws. It's weaker to graveyard hate than I'd like but the payoff is quite high too.
On paper, combining the consistent size of Tarmogoyf and Death's Shadow with discard spells and Stubborn Denial and the grinding potential of Snapcaster Mage while maintaining excellent mana efficiency seems awesome.
According to the rest of the internet, Sultai Shadow is all but non-existent. I'm interested to hear what people's thoughts are on this:
What's holding Sultai Shadow back in general?
We don't have a card advantage engine as great as Kcommand. Sultai Charm is kinda close, but still not good enough imo.
Another reason is Terminate vs our suite of removal. Terminate is just so good, we make due with Dismembers, Decays and Pulse - but Terminate is just much efficient than any of those. We need to find a card that gives us a real reason to be Sultai. Part of that equation might be Traverse, but what UG creature or land are we fetching with it that gives us a reason to be Sultai?
If we had a Sylvan Library in Modern, that would give us a compelling reason to be Sultai. Other cards that are Green and good in this deck are Golgari Charm, which is powerful in these strategies, Pulse and maaaaybe Scavenging Ooze; but Ooze might be too mana intensive for DS decks.
Found this list. Seems interesting. More like abzan with blue.
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Little angel, go away come again some other day the Devil has my ear today I'll never hear a word you say. He promised I would find a little solace and some peace of mind. Whatever. just as long as I don't feel so desperate and ravenous.
Has anyone tried this kind of shell just adding a blood crypt and kommand? That's what I've been doing. Seems an easy solution to really the only thing Sultai lacks. Kommand is really the only super powerful red card in any of the Shadow shells. Sultai red gives you access to literally all of the best cards from all of the variants to set up as you choose.
Has anyone tried this kind of shell just adding a blood crypt and kommand? That's what I've been doing. Seems an easy solution to really the only thing Sultai lacks. Kommand is really the only super powerful red card in any of the Shadow shells. Sultai red gives you access to literally all of the best cards from all of the variants to set up as you choose.
This seems to me like a great idea! Let us know how that worked out.
This seems to me like a great idea! Let us know how that worked out.
Works great IMO. I've spent a lot of time configuring it with all of the components I find the best from both Jund and Grixis shadow all in one deck. I'll provide a list and explain a lot of my thinking and reasoning behind the configuration of the deck. I've played a lot of shadow over the past few months, swapping back and forth from jund, grixis, and sultai, and I truly feel that the sultai deck is the most powerful overall. Obviously, I am one guy, likely the only one anywhere playing the deck, and it would benefit from more people giving it a try and adding their input. So hopefully someone will take the time to read this and be intrigued, with that being said, here is my current list, please note it is constantly evolving:
Maindeck:
4x Street Wraith
4x Death's Shadow
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Snapcaster Mage
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4x Mishra's Bauble
4x Serum Visions
4x Fatal Push
1x Dismember
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
2x Traverse the Ulvenwald
2x Liliana of the Veil
Sideboard:
3x Stubborn Denial
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Flaying Tendrils
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Collective Brutality
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Snapcaster Mage
3x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Temur Battle Rage
I love Jund's aggro element but feel it lacks the consistency of grixis having fewer cantrips. So running 4 serum to go along with bauble and wraith to boost it up to 12 total.
Have the full 8 discard - just great cards, serum helps prevent you from topdecking too many of them, and synergize great with goyf and LotV.
2 snaps + 1 in the board - just a great card especially when you have so many potent 1 mana spells, great late game card, only run 2 - it's a 3+ mana play and there are already 2 lili and 2 kommand. Tarmogoyf costing 2 rather than the 1 the Delve creatures typically cost make this more relevant.
I personally play a lot more against non-shadow/push decks than ones with them, so tarmogoyf just always seems great. Feels like a more consistent threat to me than the delve threats even if he dies to push and costs 2. Have a tasigur as well - sometimes you traverse for him as a push proof threat, or when in topdeck mode and you can make use of his ability. Heavy cantrip hands can let you even tutor and play him on turn 2 when you aren't yet low enough for shadow. Most often you just draw him once in a while as a 1 of and it is EXTREMELY rare that you don't have a graveyard to delve away. The deck can't support multiples of these but he's usually always a great card when you do draw him.
I'm currently on 17 land - 5 being actual lands - playing 4 colors - to me the riskiest and most inconsistent part of the deck. I rarely have actual mana issues, no more so than Jund or Grixis really, but it is definitely weak to decks like Merfolk and UW with spreading seas and ghost quarters. Hate bears less so - the matchup goes pretty well for me usually.
At the end of the day, I think the mana can be tweaked however you want it depending on preference. I tend to flood a lot and I find that 1 landers are some of the most successful and powerful hands with these decks because of all the cantrips - and you're just all gas. Perhaps my card choices are not ideal but I'm just one guy - there are many ways to approach building the deck, but 4 colors to me is the way to go IMO - you're taking the damage anyway and it gives you so many powerful options. The decks with spreading seas and whatnot are typically hard anyway.. not sure it really makes it too much worse - my config has 6 blue cards, 7 green cards (1 is abrupt decay) and 2 red cards main, rest being black. It's not really much more color taxing than the other decks that are only 3 colors but play more of the secondary and tertiary colors.
I find this configuration is more aggressive along the lines of jund but eliminates a lot of the inconsistency that deck can suffer from, the serums are really powerful in these death's shadow decks for the draw smoothing, and snap provides a lot of late game punch that Jund definitely lacks. I find Grixis can spin it's wheels a lot with the cantrips, and it actually plays death's shadow much less consistently than Jund with the 4 traverse, and this deck which has 2 traverse and nearly the same amount of cantrips. Goyf can be played in multiples whereas multiple delve threats can be hard to get online. Green also offers some really nice sideboard options and versatile cards (grudge, decay, pulse).
You aren't playing any thought scours or tarfires, and all of your cards are truly good individually. Stubborn denial is a fine card, but I run it SB - it is a card that I find can be a blank a lot of times - it requires another card to make it powerful. Traverse is extremely powerful but running 4 of them you definitely run in to situations where it is blank and topdeck multiples, and you have to run tarfire to eliminate that inconsistency.
Claim//Fame is a possible powerful option, likely as a sideboard card against the mirror/midrange decks. I like the sideboard but obviously meta dependent.. there are certainly no shortage of options regarding sideboard cards for this deck.
Let me know what you guys think, and if anyone picks it up and plays with it sometime, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.
Esper Charm Seems about the best cheap 2 for 1 you have access to. They have access to it also and don't play it, so obviously it's not that great. But maybe going for the second best option and not splashing in more colors may be the better option at the end of the day. Then again you are deaths shadow so its not like all that extra hurt is really that bad after all.
While I know it's not a traditional death shadow card I would think that snappy could be what y'all use for that needed 2 for 1.
4 stubborn
4 seize
3 traverse
1 decay
3 push are plenty of targets for it.
Also since the max cc of the deck is 2 I think Bob should see play in here somewhere.
hi guys I've been thinking of running a Sultai Delver decklist that uses Death's Shadow, Dark Confidant and Tarmogoyf in conjunction with Delver of Secrets, Thoughtseize and countless fetches to out-tempo and disrupt the opponent. The main purpose of splashing Black is for hand disruption & quickly gaining as much card advantage as possible.
Should I still keep things with Delve in as alternative finishers? I mean, they're kinda high curve, and Goyf wants those fetches in your 'yard.
I play GDS and wanted to try BUG because having green is more consistent on applying pressure with Traverse. I haven't tested the list yet, but would appreciate inputs from those who have experience with it. Thanks!
Actually like opt in this build. Need the instant to get 4 types in the yard. Snapcaster will probably be targeting traverse anyways.
Very nice looking list.
New to this deck and thread. I've been on a break but was playing classic Jund Midrange until my break just before the release of BFZ.
Anyways, I love the play style of the BUx builds and splashing green for Traverse feels like it adds some consistency. I'm still tying to learn the deck but as of now I've just been working with the following:
I've been having a hard time with the Bant or 4 Color Humans decks that float around my LGS. I was hoping that the 2 Flaying Tendrils would be enough but the Mayor and Thalia's Leutenant effects just seem to push their creatures out of sweeper range and the deck goes a little too wide for the targeted removal that I have access to.
Is the Humans deck enough of a thing that I should worry about it outside of my LGS? We have at least 3 players in a pool of a little more than 16 that bring it to FNM.
Feels like that last list would rather have Mishra's Bauble instead of the thought scours. Scour is good but not so much in these builds as they are so tight. You really want to increase your amount of types to activate Traverse. Plus bauble is so good turn 1 when you have a fetch land and a non fetchland. You get to pop bauble and figure out your next play while effectively setting yourself up. You like the card you can play the non fetch. You don't like the card then you play and crack the fetch. This play is strong because it's free while still allowing you to play your turn 1 discard effect.
I haven't considered Bauble in my list. I had thought about Jamming some mix of LotV and LtLH in place of Simic Charm and the 2 Rancor. Rancor is cute and gets quite the response when I stick one on a Tasigur, Tarmogoyf or Death's Shadow.
This seems to me like a great idea! Let us know how that worked out.
Works great IMO. I've spent a lot of time configuring it with all of the components I find the best from both Jund and Grixis shadow all in one deck. I'll provide a list and explain a lot of my thinking and reasoning behind the configuration of the deck. I've played a lot of shadow over the past few months, swapping back and forth from jund, grixis, and sultai, and I truly feel that the sultai deck is the most powerful overall. Obviously, I am one guy, likely the only one anywhere playing the deck, and it would benefit from more people giving it a try and adding their input. So hopefully someone will take the time to read this and be intrigued, with that being said, here is my current list, please note it is constantly evolving:
Maindeck:
4x Street Wraith
4x Death's Shadow
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Snapcaster Mage
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4x Mishra's Bauble
4x Serum Visions
4x Fatal Push
1x Dismember
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
2x Traverse the Ulvenwald
2x Liliana of the Veil
Sideboard:
3x Stubborn Denial
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Flaying Tendrils
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Collective Brutality
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Snapcaster Mage
3x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Temur Battle Rage
I love Jund's aggro element but feel it lacks the consistency of grixis having fewer cantrips. So running 4 serum to go along with bauble and wraith to boost it up to 12 total.
Have the full 8 discard - just great cards, serum helps prevent you from topdecking too many of them, and synergize great with goyf and LotV.
2 snaps + 1 in the board - just a great card especially when you have so many potent 1 mana spells, great late game card, only run 2 - it's a 3+ mana play and there are already 2 lili and 2 kommand. Tarmogoyf costing 2 rather than the 1 the Delve creatures typically cost make this more relevant.
I personally play a lot more against non-shadow/push decks than ones with them, so tarmogoyf just always seems great. Feels like a more consistent threat to me than the delve threats even if he dies to push and costs 2. Have a tasigur as well - sometimes you traverse for him as a push proof threat, or when in topdeck mode and you can make use of his ability. Heavy cantrip hands can let you even tutor and play him on turn 2 when you aren't yet low enough for shadow. Most often you just draw him once in a while as a 1 of and it is EXTREMELY rare that you don't have a graveyard to delve away. The deck can't support multiples of these but he's usually always a great card when you do draw him.
I'm currently on 17 land - 5 being actual lands - playing 4 colors - to me the riskiest and most inconsistent part of the deck. I rarely have actual mana issues, no more so than Jund or Grixis really, but it is definitely weak to decks like Merfolk and UW with spreading seas and ghost quarters. Hate bears less so - the matchup goes pretty well for me usually.
At the end of the day, I think the mana can be tweaked however you want it depending on preference. I tend to flood a lot and I find that 1 landers are some of the most successful and powerful hands with these decks because of all the cantrips - and you're just all gas. Perhaps my card choices are not ideal but I'm just one guy - there are many ways to approach building the deck, but 4 colors to me is the way to go IMO - you're taking the damage anyway and it gives you so many powerful options. The decks with spreading seas and whatnot are typically hard anyway.. not sure it really makes it too much worse - my config has 6 blue cards, 7 green cards (1 is abrupt decay) and 2 red cards main, rest being black. It's not really much more color taxing than the other decks that are only 3 colors but play more of the secondary and tertiary colors.
I find this configuration is more aggressive along the lines of jund but eliminates a lot of the inconsistency that deck can suffer from, the serums are really powerful in these death's shadow decks for the draw smoothing, and snap provides a lot of late game punch that Jund definitely lacks. I find Grixis can spin it's wheels a lot with the cantrips, and it actually plays death's shadow much less consistently than Jund with the 4 traverse, and this deck which has 2 traverse and nearly the same amount of cantrips. Goyf can be played in multiples whereas multiple delve threats can be hard to get online. Green also offers some really nice sideboard options and versatile cards (grudge, decay, pulse).
You aren't playing any thought scours or tarfires, and all of your cards are truly good individually. Stubborn denial is a fine card, but I run it SB - it is a card that I find can be a blank a lot of times - it requires another card to make it powerful. Traverse is extremely powerful but running 4 of them you definitely run in to situations where it is blank and topdeck multiples, and you have to run tarfire to eliminate that inconsistency.
Claim//Fame is a possible powerful option, likely as a sideboard card against the mirror/midrange decks. I like the sideboard but obviously meta dependent.. there are certainly no shortage of options regarding sideboard cards for this deck.
Let me know what you guys think, and if anyone picks it up and plays with it sometime, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.
After playing a lot of different decks in the format, I'm back to BUG shadow and want to tune a BUgr list very similar to the one above. My goal was to keep the explosiveness of the jund version with the consistency of the grixis version.
The most prominent changes compared to my former BUG list are:
Only 2 Traverses instead of 4. They were realy important for the consistency of the jund version. But they are VERY weak to gy hate and are not a desired turn 1/2 play.
Serum Vision over Thoughtscour. With less Traverses the delirium pressure is not that big and SV is the better card in most situations.
Only 3 Snapcaster. Whilst being a great card, I don't want to draw him too early/often, especially after cutting Thoughtscour.
2 Kollaghans Command. The Snappy-command-engine is the main reason to splash red.
1 Lightning Bolt. Bolt is still a great card, especially together with snappy. Bolt-Snap-Bolt can still catch a lot of players off guard.
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Collective Brutality
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Golgari Charm
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
1 To the Slaughter
I've had some good success so fair. Went 3-1 last week defeating Elves, Kiki-Chord and 5-Color midrange with Tribal Flames. Lost to tribal Goblins. This week I went 2-1. Defeated Jund and this weird deck using Forbidden Orchard and Illness in the Ranks plus the Hunted creatures. Lost to Valakut. So far I'm really liking the deck. Any suggestions are welcome. I think the sideboard needs a little work.
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Little angel, go away come again some other day the Devil has my ear today I'll never hear a word you say. He promised I would find a little solace and some peace of mind. Whatever. just as long as I don't feel so desperate and ravenous.
So I went 2-0-1 Saturday night. I added a Godless Shrine to the main deck and 3 Lingering Souls and a Ranger of Eos to the sideboard. I defeated dredge and abzan each 2-0. I played for fun against the other undefeated player. He is on 8 whack and wrecked my face. So far I’m enjoying the deck.
Little angel, go away come again some other day the Devil has my ear today I'll never hear a word you say. He promised I would find a little solace and some peace of mind. Whatever. just as long as I don't feel so desperate and ravenous.
@avey I tried out Liliana of the Veil and found her +1 to hurt our plan very badly. That's why I went with Liliana the Last Hope since she can return one of our threats. I think I'll try LOTV out again this weekend. Maybe I was just using her wrong.
Went 1-3 tonight. Lost 0-2 in all my matches. Lost to abzan, g/b tron and elves. Got a buy in the fourth round. Deck just wasn’t working tonight.
Little angel, go away come again some other day the Devil has my ear today I'll never hear a word you say. He promised I would find a little solace and some peace of mind. Whatever. just as long as I don't feel so desperate and ravenous.
Little angel, go away come again some other day the Devil has my ear today I'll never hear a word you say. He promised I would find a little solace and some peace of mind. Whatever. just as long as I don't feel so desperate and ravenous.
This thread seems kinda dead but I am posting here mainly to get my thoughts down somewhere and would love some feedback if anyone is still playing around with BUG Shadow.
Have put in about 50 games on MTGO tourney practice lobby and so far sitting around a 55-60% winrate, which isn't excellent but also isn't too bad. I feel like there is still a lot to learn and a lot of improvement left in my play with the deck, and also I really really enjoy playing it, so I'm going to stick with it.
- No delve creatures. I ran 2 tasigur for awhile but ended up deciding he went against the traverse/goyf plan too much, which we are pretty all-in on, so replaced him with grim flayer. Have been very pleased so far. Grim is an excellent t2 play that has nice synergies with traverse/goyf and can pull you ahead quickly if left unchecked. Also the trample helps getting damage through chumps when you don't have access to temur battlerage.
- 3 basic lands. Initially ran a breeding pool over the island, and that still may be more correct I am not sure yet. However with the prevalence of FoR, path, and moon, I do like having access to the island. Feels good cracking a fetch for your forest and using traverse to get your other basics and play around a moon.
- 6 hand disruption spells. I think this is the right number. My very first build jammed in 4 thoughtseize, 3 IoK & 2 whispers of emrakul however I quickly discovered that was way too much and Iok can be a terrible topdeck. There is a huge difference between a t2 hymn to tourach (mark rosewater calls the greatest discard spell ever printed) and a t4, 5 or 6 whispers.
- No Liliana. This may be incorrect, however as Shaggy states above, her +1 hurts us badly, which means we will hardly ever ultimate, and if we need more removal I think we are just better off replacing her with better, more efficient spot removal.
- Shriekmaw in SB. Have been really impressed by this so far. Can be brought in as tutorable removal in matchups where you know it will be effective. Have been exploring other silver bullet tutor targets for traverse but haven't found many I like so far. I found scooze too mana intensive as I am often operating on 3 lands.
Anyway, would appreciate any suggestions or feedback
I'm currently on Jund Shadow splashing blue for Stubborn denial but that plan will switch to Sultai splashing red for TBR once the new toys are released. My big question to you all isv what do you think about Mausoleum Secrets? If we swap Mishra's Bauble out for Architects of Will, we get our Undergrowth to X=1 fairly easily and then can tutor out Fatal Push, Death's Shadow, or Thoughtseize. It gets to X=3 a lot faster than you think, which then opens up tutors for LOTV, Unmoored Ego (out of SB), Collective Brutality, Dismember, Assassin's Trophy, Countersquall (my favorite!) The list I'm testing:
Crime/Punishment is super sexy as a sweeper out of the board because it can be tutored for X=2!!
Overall just being an instant speed tutor means you can wait until the time is right to search, rather than have to tutor main phase, give them your information, then cast it the following turn.
Sup dudes, I just found this thread. I've been playing different versions of BUG for a few years, since Khans. This is what I've been taking to FNM recently, I have been very happy with this list. It's updated to include GRN. I'd love to get a discussion going about BUG again.
Funeral, I like this take on Mausoleum Secrets a lot. I think with this deck, space is so tight that we have to decide if we want to run the Architect / Mausoleum Secrets engine, or the Bauble / Traverse engine. I think there's merits to both and I'd love to see what people can do with secrets. My only complaint with the deck you posted is that I'm not crazy about the nobles. I think this deck can do a ton with only having 2 creatures in the grave so I'm not sure they're really necessary.
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We don't have a card advantage engine as great as Kcommand. Sultai Charm is kinda close, but still not good enough imo.
Another reason is Terminate vs our suite of removal. Terminate is just so good, we make due with Dismembers, Decays and Pulse - but Terminate is just much efficient than any of those. We need to find a card that gives us a real reason to be Sultai. Part of that equation might be Traverse, but what UG creature or land are we fetching with it that gives us a reason to be Sultai?
Found this list. Seems interesting. More like abzan with blue.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
This seems to me like a great idea! Let us know how that worked out.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
Works great IMO. I've spent a lot of time configuring it with all of the components I find the best from both Jund and Grixis shadow all in one deck. I'll provide a list and explain a lot of my thinking and reasoning behind the configuration of the deck. I've played a lot of shadow over the past few months, swapping back and forth from jund, grixis, and sultai, and I truly feel that the sultai deck is the most powerful overall. Obviously, I am one guy, likely the only one anywhere playing the deck, and it would benefit from more people giving it a try and adding their input. So hopefully someone will take the time to read this and be intrigued, with that being said, here is my current list, please note it is constantly evolving:
Maindeck:
4x Street Wraith
4x Death's Shadow
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Snapcaster Mage
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4x Mishra's Bauble
4x Serum Visions
4x Fatal Push
1x Dismember
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
2x Traverse the Ulvenwald
2x Liliana of the Veil
4x Polluted Delta
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Bloodstained mire
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Swamp
1x Blood Crypt
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Watery Grave
1x Breeding Pool
Sideboard:
3x Stubborn Denial
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Flaying Tendrils
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Collective Brutality
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Snapcaster Mage
3x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Temur Battle Rage
I love Jund's aggro element but feel it lacks the consistency of grixis having fewer cantrips. So running 4 serum to go along with bauble and wraith to boost it up to 12 total.
Have the full 8 discard - just great cards, serum helps prevent you from topdecking too many of them, and synergize great with goyf and LotV.
2 snaps + 1 in the board - just a great card especially when you have so many potent 1 mana spells, great late game card, only run 2 - it's a 3+ mana play and there are already 2 lili and 2 kommand. Tarmogoyf costing 2 rather than the 1 the Delve creatures typically cost make this more relevant.
I personally play a lot more against non-shadow/push decks than ones with them, so tarmogoyf just always seems great. Feels like a more consistent threat to me than the delve threats even if he dies to push and costs 2. Have a tasigur as well - sometimes you traverse for him as a push proof threat, or when in topdeck mode and you can make use of his ability. Heavy cantrip hands can let you even tutor and play him on turn 2 when you aren't yet low enough for shadow. Most often you just draw him once in a while as a 1 of and it is EXTREMELY rare that you don't have a graveyard to delve away. The deck can't support multiples of these but he's usually always a great card when you do draw him.
I'm currently on 17 land - 5 being actual lands - playing 4 colors - to me the riskiest and most inconsistent part of the deck. I rarely have actual mana issues, no more so than Jund or Grixis really, but it is definitely weak to decks like Merfolk and UW with spreading seas and ghost quarters. Hate bears less so - the matchup goes pretty well for me usually.
At the end of the day, I think the mana can be tweaked however you want it depending on preference. I tend to flood a lot and I find that 1 landers are some of the most successful and powerful hands with these decks because of all the cantrips - and you're just all gas. Perhaps my card choices are not ideal but I'm just one guy - there are many ways to approach building the deck, but 4 colors to me is the way to go IMO - you're taking the damage anyway and it gives you so many powerful options. The decks with spreading seas and whatnot are typically hard anyway.. not sure it really makes it too much worse - my config has 6 blue cards, 7 green cards (1 is abrupt decay) and 2 red cards main, rest being black. It's not really much more color taxing than the other decks that are only 3 colors but play more of the secondary and tertiary colors.
I find this configuration is more aggressive along the lines of jund but eliminates a lot of the inconsistency that deck can suffer from, the serums are really powerful in these death's shadow decks for the draw smoothing, and snap provides a lot of late game punch that Jund definitely lacks. I find Grixis can spin it's wheels a lot with the cantrips, and it actually plays death's shadow much less consistently than Jund with the 4 traverse, and this deck which has 2 traverse and nearly the same amount of cantrips. Goyf can be played in multiples whereas multiple delve threats can be hard to get online. Green also offers some really nice sideboard options and versatile cards (grudge, decay, pulse).
You aren't playing any thought scours or tarfires, and all of your cards are truly good individually. Stubborn denial is a fine card, but I run it SB - it is a card that I find can be a blank a lot of times - it requires another card to make it powerful. Traverse is extremely powerful but running 4 of them you definitely run in to situations where it is blank and topdeck multiples, and you have to run tarfire to eliminate that inconsistency.
Claim//Fame is a possible powerful option, likely as a sideboard card against the mirror/midrange decks. I like the sideboard but obviously meta dependent.. there are certainly no shortage of options regarding sideboard cards for this deck.
Let me know what you guys think, and if anyone picks it up and plays with it sometime, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.
4 stubborn
4 seize
3 traverse
1 decay
3 push are plenty of targets for it.
Also since the max cc of the deck is 2 I think Bob should see play in here somewhere.
Should I still keep things with Delve in as alternative finishers? I mean, they're kinda high curve, and Goyf wants those fetches in your 'yard.
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
1 OVergrown Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
2 Snapcaster Mage
16 Spells
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Stubborn Denial
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Serum Visions
4 Opt
4 Bauble
3 Traverse the Unvenwald
Very nice looking list.
Anyways, I love the play style of the BUx builds and splashing green for Traverse feels like it adds some consistency. I'm still tying to learn the deck but as of now I've just been working with the following:
BUG Shadow v2: Traverse, Goyf, Rancor, Decay
4 Death's Shadow
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Street Wraith
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Fatal Push
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Stubborn Denial
4 Thought Scour
4 Thoughtseize
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Simic Charm
1 Dismember
2 Rancor
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Stubborn Denial
2 Collective Brutality
1 Go for the Throat
2 Flaying Tendrils
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pulse of Murasa
2 Nihil Spellbomb
Shared via TopDecked MTG
I've been having a hard time with the Bant or 4 Color Humans decks that float around my LGS. I was hoping that the 2 Flaying Tendrils would be enough but the Mayor and Thalia's Leutenant effects just seem to push their creatures out of sweeper range and the deck goes a little too wide for the targeted removal that I have access to.
Is the Humans deck enough of a thing that I should worry about it outside of my LGS? We have at least 3 players in a pool of a little more than 16 that bring it to FNM.
BWBAthreos, God of PassageBWB (Shadowborn Clerics)
BWBAthreos, God of PassageBWB (Shadowborn Clerics)
After playing a lot of different decks in the format, I'm back to BUG shadow and want to tune a BUgr list very similar to the one above. My goal was to keep the explosiveness of the jund version with the consistency of the grixis version.
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Snapcaster Mage
4x Street Wraith
4x Mishra's Bauble
4x Serum Visions
2x Traverse the Ulvenwald
2x Fatal Push
1x Dismember
1x Lightning Bolt
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
3x Stubborn Denial
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Watery Grave
1x Blood Crypt
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Breeding Pool
1x Steam Vents
1x Swamp
The most prominent changes compared to my former BUG list are:
Only 2 Traverses instead of 4. They were realy important for the consistency of the jund version. But they are VERY weak to gy hate and are not a desired turn 1/2 play.
Serum Vision over Thoughtscour. With less Traverses the delirium pressure is not that big and SV is the better card in most situations.
Only 3 Snapcaster. Whilst being a great card, I don't want to draw him too early/often, especially after cutting Thoughtscour.
2 Kollaghans Command. The Snappy-command-engine is the main reason to splash red.
1 Lightning Bolt. Bolt is still a great card, especially together with snappy. Bolt-Snap-Bolt can still catch a lot of players off guard.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Street Wraith
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Gurmag Angler
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Liliana the Last Hope
4 Mishra's Bauble
1 Dismember
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Fatal Push
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Serum Vision
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Thoughtseize
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Breeding Pool
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Watery Grave
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Collective Brutality
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Golgari Charm
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
1 To the Slaughter
Found this list online. Any thoughts?
So I went 2-0-1 Saturday night. I added a Godless Shrine to the main deck and 3 Lingering Souls and a Ranger of Eos to the sideboard. I defeated dredge and abzan each 2-0. I played for fun against the other undefeated player. He is on 8 whack and wrecked my face. So far I’m enjoying the deck.
Went 1-3 tonight. Lost 0-2 in all my matches. Lost to abzan, g/b tron and elves. Got a buy in the fourth round. Deck just wasn’t working tonight.
This list was posted in the Abzan thread. Thoughts?
I like the idea of Notion Thief against Jace the Mind Sculptor. I wonder if 17 lands is enough to hit 4 mana consistently.
Have put in about 50 games on MTGO tourney practice lobby and so far sitting around a 55-60% winrate, which isn't excellent but also isn't too bad. I feel like there is still a lot to learn and a lot of improvement left in my play with the deck, and also I really really enjoy playing it, so I'm going to stick with it.
This is my current build:
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Polluted Delta
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Watery Grave
1x Island
1x Forest
1x Swamp
Creatures
4x Death's Shadow
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x Grim Flayer
4x Street Wraith
3x Stubborn Denial
4x Thought Scour
4x Fatal Push
2x Abrupt Decay
Sorceries
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
Artifacts
4x Mishra's Bauble
1x Shriekmaw
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Disdainful Stroke
2x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Flaying Tendrils
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Golgari Charm
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Ghost Quarter
Comments on my build:
- No delve creatures. I ran 2 tasigur for awhile but ended up deciding he went against the traverse/goyf plan too much, which we are pretty all-in on, so replaced him with grim flayer. Have been very pleased so far. Grim is an excellent t2 play that has nice synergies with traverse/goyf and can pull you ahead quickly if left unchecked. Also the trample helps getting damage through chumps when you don't have access to temur battlerage.
- 3 basic lands. Initially ran a breeding pool over the island, and that still may be more correct I am not sure yet. However with the prevalence of FoR, path, and moon, I do like having access to the island. Feels good cracking a fetch for your forest and using traverse to get your other basics and play around a moon.
- 6 hand disruption spells. I think this is the right number. My very first build jammed in 4 thoughtseize, 3 IoK & 2 whispers of emrakul however I quickly discovered that was way too much and Iok can be a terrible topdeck. There is a huge difference between a t2 hymn to tourach (mark rosewater calls the greatest discard spell ever printed) and a t4, 5 or 6 whispers.
- No Liliana. This may be incorrect, however as Shaggy states above, her +1 hurts us badly, which means we will hardly ever ultimate, and if we need more removal I think we are just better off replacing her with better, more efficient spot removal.
- Shriekmaw in SB. Have been really impressed by this so far. Can be brought in as tutorable removal in matchups where you know it will be effective. Have been exploring other silver bullet tutor targets for traverse but haven't found many I like so far. I found scooze too mana intensive as I am often operating on 3 lands.
Anyway, would appreciate any suggestions or feedback
BGUSultai Shadow
BURGrixis Shadow
BGUSultai midrange
BRWMardu Pyromancer
BGRJund
4 Death's shadow
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Street Wraith
4 Architects of Will
4 Noble Hierarch
Spells
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Stubborn denial
3 Fatal Push
4 Mausoleum Secrets
1 Countersquall
1 Assassin's Trophy
1 Abrupt decay
1 Dismember
1 Slaughter pact
1 Liliana of the veil
4 Verdant catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Watery grave
1 Godless Shrine
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Lingering Souls
1 Island
1 Snapcaster mage
1 Batwing Brume
1 Orzhov Charm
1 Collective Brutality
2 Spell Snare
1 Bitterblossom
1 Crime // Punishment
1 Assassin's Trophy
1 Abrupt decay
1 Unmoored Ego
Crime/Punishment is super sexy as a sweeper out of the board because it can be tutored for X=2!!
Overall just being an instant speed tutor means you can wait until the time is right to search, rather than have to tutor main phase, give them your information, then cast it the following turn.
Draft My Cube!
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Watery Grave
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Breeding Pool
1x Swamp
1x Island
Instant// 15
4x Opt
3x Stubborn Denial
4x Fatal Push
2x Dismember
2x Assassin’s Trophy
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Deaths Shadow
4x Street Wraith
2x Snapcaster Mage
Sorcery// 8
4x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Traverse the Ulvenwald
Artifact// 4
4x Mishra’s Bauble
Planeswalker// 2
2x Liliana of the Veil
2x Collective Brutality
2x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Bitterblossom
2x Bontu’s Last Reckoning
1x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Stubborn Denial
1x Assassin’s Trophy
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Kira, Great Glass Spinner