R1 vs Blue Moon with Kiki (2-1)
G1 he systematically clears my board with Burn spells and takes the offensive with double Snaps into Burn to finish me off.
G2/G3 I out-value him with Voice, Gaddock, Bugler and Rallier while holding back threats to play around Anger of the Gods. Spellskite ends up winning the match by keeping him off the combo via redirecting Pestermite's untap ability and giving me another turn to swing in.
R2 vs Storm (2-0)
G1 Dork into back-to-back Reflector Mages to bounce Baral and then Electromancer next turn. Evolved a Voice into Shalai which he cleared a couple turns later with Grapeshot-Remand-Grapeshot. Fortunately he'd fetched suboptimally so he was one R short of being able to combo out and I killed him with beats next turn.
G2 is hazy, I mull down to 4 but convert it into a combo on ~T4 after he fails to find a mana bear.
R3 vs Burn (1-2)
Super close games. Similar to the Blue Moon matchup the package of Voice, Bugler, and Rallier help me keep a reasonably aggressive board presence and buy me time to evolve into Shalai. This worked well one of the games, but G3 he hit double Eidolon and I had a grip full of 2-3 CMC spells without removal, allowing him to edge me out of the game.
R4 vs Infect (2-0)
G1 I wasn't sure what the opponent was on and kept a 6 with double Bird and double Oath, which converted to Cobra and T4 combo win
G2 I kept a hand with Path, Hierarch, Reflector, and Evo. Bounced his early Glistener, Path'd his Inkmoth, and then evolved Hierarch into Spellskite to lock the game down.
Thoughts:
Dorks - 3 Bird / 3 Hierarch / 3 Cobra felt great. Reliable ramp most of the night and didn't flood out. Blue Moon did land a 3-for-1 Electrolyze hitting Hierarch and Cobra but Rallier subsequently rez-ing Cobra next turn kept this from being a blow-out.
Bugler - nal2's changes have addressed most of my issues with Bugler. I really liked the split of 2 Bugler in the main and 2 in the side.
Rallier - Far from being just a "monkey card", Rallier was key to a lot of important tempo plays, kept 2 CMC hate cards such as Skite on the board, and felt worth including even as a Bugler whiff and RIP nonbo. 2 feels like the right number.
Mainboard Spellskite - MVP of the night by securing two matches, though I have more Infect in my meta than most.
Stonehorn Dignitary - I landed this once vs Burn but I had already walled off his creatures so it just felt a little win-more. I can still see it being good, but I'm a little soft to Burn so this slot might get shuffled around to something like Huntmaster of the Fells. I've been kinda medium on Huntmaster in the past since we can't control his flip very well, but his current synergy with Bugler and Lark, combined with the the value of him generating non-graveyard dependent card advantage and help to the Burn matchup might make him worth revisiting.
4x Felidar Guardian - I understand nal2's argument to run 3, and it's true that I drew a couple mediocre Felidars, but for now I will stick with the set if only to maximize combo rates.
Voice vs Wall - I think you could justify either option right now. All of the 2+ power creatures -- including Voice -- combine to make beats a very real plan B, which won me several games that I don't think I would've won if I'd had Wall instead. After previously getting walloped by some really aggressive lists like Shadow where I was dying with cards in hand I was happy to have Voice’s double block back in the list over Wall’s block + draw.
Reveillark - Copying Lark with Saheeli and rez-ing Bugler + Cobra helped win a game vs Blue Moon. I think I still like it in the side since it's a little slower and not a Bugler hit, running the 3rd Reflector MB over Lark.
Eidolon of Rhetoric - I cut Eidolon because (1) this is a more explosive combo-focused list and Eidolon hurts our own tempo enough that I found myself bringing it in for relatively few matchups outside of Storm-type combo lists, on top of that (2) I hadn't seen as much Storm/KCI locally so Eidolon had been really rotting in the board, and (3) this list had 2x Path, 2x Gaddock, 2x RIP, and Shalai vs Storm and all of that plus Stony (minus Shalai) vs KCI so we aren't completely unprepared for those matchups. Of course, the night that I cut Eidolon I have 2 Storm decks and a KCI deck show up ^_^;. But the Storm match went well tonight so for now I feel vindicated... Maybe it's worth having Eidolon as the final nail on those matchups, but there may be other matchups that need the attention more, such as Burn.
In the games when I land cleric I usually bring him back with renegade and sun titan but RIP may just be better. Gaddock teeg seems good vs terminus. Thanks for the feed back. I 5-0d a friendly league last night.
@Mull234turn5win: my only suggestion would be to possibly swap the MB Pridemages out for another 2-drop (the rest of the Voices? Wall?) since you have the disenchant angle covered with Acidic Slime and with Evo to find Slime you generally don't need too many more copies of that effect. But if you expect to face a lot of KCI, Lantern, and Affinity running the Pridemages could make sense.
@Koopa: I'm sure nal2 will add his own thoughts but I found Unified Will to be unreliable due to its creature clause in too many matchups, awkward on mana where we have to leave open (and potentially waste) 1U while the rest of the deck is hungry for mana to develop the board, and perhaps most importantly Gaddock accomplishes many of the same goals while having many advantages / synergies as a 2 CMC creature. I would personally run a 3rd Gaddock before the first Unified Will, but if I really wanted a counterspell I would run Negate before Will.
@nal2: Terminus is one of the main reasons I like the idea of running the extra 2 Buglers in the side, although I haven't gotten to test the matchup yet.
I cut counterspells because often I just unload as much as possible on my turn and can't really afford to hold up counter mana. It's also a pretty optimistic game plan with just a couple of non-tutorable counter spells - too many times they end up when I'm already behind or, in Unified Will's case, I don't have enough creatures to make it work.
Re: Terminus: I'm currently exploring having a couple of Planeswalkers in the sideboard for the UW Control matchup. Right now I'm trying Ajani Vengeant (which is also good against other matchups) and Venser, the Sojourner, but could see Chandra, Torch of Defiance being good as well. They are a non-combo with Gaddock Teeg in play, so perhaps playing stuff like Domri Rade and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar is smarter, although they are a lot weaker imo.
After a couple of rough weeks, I decided to put my tinkering hat on, and now that I've got reasonable access to Competitive Leagues (manatraders!), I'm not limited to paper if I want a quality testing ground.
I just went 3-2 with this list, which isn't bad for a first draft.
I beat Humans, Titan Shift, and UR Wizards. I lost to Humans, and RDW.
Wizards: A very close 3 games. I really missed Staticaster in this one.
Titan Shift: He lacked the quantity of interaction he needed to keep me from comboing off two quick games in a row.
Humans: In the match I lost, I had sluggish hands, and I died on turn 4. The match I won was lopsided in the other direction.
Burn: I stuttered, and couldn't quite recover in a close G3.
It feels like I want a 22nd land, but I'm not positive what should get cut. Maybe a Noble Hierarch? Both matches I lost, I struggled to hit land drops, and the deck generally feels pretty hungry.
Bugler feels good, but I'm right on the edge of an acceptable number of hits.
Siege Rhino felt like a million bucks.
Glittering Wish was consistently good, but I'm not stoked on my current sideboard. Slaughter Games, Fracturing Gust, and Crumble to Dust are iffy to me.
I felt the lack of Eldritch Evolution a couple of times. Bring to Light is capable of some really cool stuff, but it lack the explosiveness of Evo.
Overall, I had a great time with this build, and I'm going to run it through a few more leagues tomorrow to see if it has legs.
Wow Siefer, that is something different for sure. I like the approach, and the pure number of unusual choices all in one deck. I've played both lists with Rhino and with Kiki, but having both at the same time seems super sweet.
However, as you said, at least a few Eldritch Evolutions should probably be in there. Also, neither BTL nor Wish can find Stony Silence or Worship, so mabye different choices should be made there.
I wanted to revisit a card I'd suggested a while back, Kalonian Hydra:
-technically 0 power, synergizing with Bugler and Lark
-presents a 2 turn clock if untouched
-Saheeli/Kiki copy of Hydra doubles size of original Hydra
-gives non-black builds a large trampler other than Siege Rhino
-Bolt & Push proof, still gets hit by Path & Dismember
-no ETB so no interaction with Felidar and low value floor
@shelldell, is the main motivation the bugler/ lark synergy? If not, green gearhulk seems reasonable for the reasons you set forth plus it has etb triggers.
@shelldell, is the main motivation the bugler/ lark synergy? If not, green gearhulk seems reasonable for the reasons you set forth plus it has etb triggers.
@shelldell, is the main motivation the bugler/ lark synergy? If not, green gearhulk seems reasonable for the reasons you set forth plus it has etb triggers.
For those of you who have tested Bugler I have two questions:
a) Does Bugler have a high enough hit rate/are you happy with the effect [i]compared to[/c] pure card quantity of Tracker? (They occupy the same card advantage slot.)
b) Does the curve of unimpactful 2- and 3-drops (with a tad too many 3-drops) get compensated? (e.g. through more consistent comboing)
a) The thing is, Bugler you can just run out as soon as you hit 3 mana, since removal for it doesn't really matter and a 2/3 can be a useful blocker in various matchups. Tracker usually comes out later, needs more mana to actually come online, and it doesn't always want to get involved in combat right away. And that last point really matters when you get run over by Bloodghast, Goblin Guide, etc. Tracker is a lot better when the game goes long, but Bugler has way more impact short term and especially when facing aggression or removal. They both cost 3, but play very differently in my experience. Bugler's hit rate has been reasonable in my testing, as long as you have something in the ballpark of 25 hits in the deck. The fact that it has a good body to benefit from Noble Hierarch's exalted plays into that (since Hierarch becomes more relevant as a hit). I like it against UW and other grindy decks, as well as matchups where blocking early matters.
b) You actually do combo more consistently with Bugler, but still a little too slow for my taste. It's great at finding a combo piece eventually, but looking at 4 cards doesn't exactly guarantee a combo next turn. More often you go through a chain of Buglers, Walls and Oaths etc until you get there on turn 6 or 7. What we really need are more ways to actually combo by turn 4-5, in order to have a better chance at racing decks like Tron, Storm or KCI.
I agree that Knight is a great card. It's land utility function is broadly helpful and most of the time it will be a decently large creature for 2 less mana. You are also correct than Hydra still loses to Path / Terminus.
However I wouldn't say that Hydra does no work against UW Control. If they Path our early Voice / Gaddock then ramping us into a Hydra's 2-turn clock could be dangerous. If they don't have Path in hand a lone Hydra essentially requires them to clear the board with Terminus, allowing us to present a fast clock while committing fewer threats to the board.
For my list I am trying to lean on the graveyard as little as possible -- even the current 3x Voice, 2x Rallier, 1x Lark is pushing it IMO. Knight can still be shrunk down to a 2/2 in the face of opposing hate such as RIP (or our own copy).
Hydra also has trample built in rather than taking a turn off to tutor up Wolf Run with Knight.
Lastly, as I mentioned Hydra is effectively a win con with Saheeli/Kiki. The best case scenario would be T2 Cobra, T3 Hydra, T4 Saheeli copy Hydra, swing for 32 points of trample damage. I doubt that we'll curve out exactly like that very often but in general it's a reasonable mid-late game alternate win-con.
Knight is definitely the safer and more consistent choice, but the rest of the deck is so packed with safe value creatures and we stress the opponent's removal enough with our combo attempts that I'd like to try one copy of a (Bugler/Lark-compatible) Baneslayer style card that really punishes them if they don't have an answer on hand immediately.
-----
Regarding your Bugler questions:
A) I have cleanly whiffed on two Bugler casts in the last 8 matches including one instance of sending a potentially game-winning Saheeli 2nd from the top to the bottom... but the theoretical hit rate is still quite good (89%) so I'm not worrying about the whiffs much right now. In terms of Bugler vs Tracker I think Bugler is a more consistent mainboard card. When you're on the back foot vs an aggressive deck Bugler gets you another card immediately without additional investment and thus has a more expendable body. When you're trying to pressure a control deck Bugler still gives guaranteed free value and is a true 3-drop rather than waiting for Tracker + land drop. It has a higher floor than Tracker but a lower ceiling. Bugler is also a part of the reason I feel like I even have a chance vs Burn despite running so few dedicated hate cards.
B) I'm not really sure what you mean by unimpactful 2- and 3-drops. The recent builds have added enough higher impact <= 2 power cards that I don't think this is so much of a problem anymore. I also haven't had any issues at all with my current curve. I wouldn't say that Bugler adds any consistency to the combo since he mostly draws you into the flicker half, and I usually side him out vs fast decks where I just want to combo and don't care about card advantage.
Bring to Light Saheeli update: I went 4-1 in a competitive league last night, losing to 8 whack (and roughly 73 Goblin Grenades). I then lost in the top 8 of a PPTQ today, with both of my loses coming against the same Hollow One player. Deck felt consistently strong throughout the day, but I feel like I need a) more and better graveyard hate and b) a more powerful creature than Acidic Slime to Bring to Light for when a combo kill isn't in play.
I'm going to suck it up and add a couple of Rest in Peaces to the board. Acidic Slime is great at what it does, but I want something else when I'm not going for the kill, or grabbing a Command to stabilize. What do folks think about Baneslayer as a curve topper? I've explored this angle before, but I'm intrigued by the potential to just go get it without question. Other options include (but aren't limited to) Angel of Sanctions, Glorybringer, Thragtusk, and Blood Baron. In particular, I want something that can turn around a bad situation against decks like Burn and Hollow One.
Regarding the Knight/Hydra discussion: I adore Knight, but needing to untap with it has always been the big hangup for me. For Saheeli decks, I want cards to be making a big splash the moment they come down. Hydra occupies a similar space, I think. It's a big beater, and Bugler fetches it, but I'm not sure a mid-range beat-stick is what we're after. At least, not unless it's providing something else (life, a card, etc).
On the topic of Bugler, I'm wavering a bit, at least in a deck with Bring to Lights and Glittering Wish. I currently have 23 hits, but I've been wondering if I'd rather just draw a card. I've been thinking about some fun stuff for that slot: Champion of Wits, Tireless Tracker, Bygone Bishop, Rogue Refiner (I know), and even a Runic Armasaur.
For bonus fun I'm attaching a screenshot from game 3 in the finals. I mulliganed to 6 and kept a one lander and scryed a Birds of Paradise on top. In opponent's turn 3 they cast Acidic Slime to blow up my only land (screenshot taken here). When it's my draw step I draw a card and after some thinking I'm able to win that very turn.
What's the card and how do I win?
Building this deck now and browsing for lists. I saw this puzzle and had to solve it.
The card needed is a fetch:
play fetch (1 mana)
crack fetch (2 mana)
tap the fetched land for 1 mana (3 mana)
tap the bird (4 mana)
eldritch the bird into renegade rallier (1 mana)
renegade brings back the fetch (2 mana)
crack fetch (3 mana)
tap fetched land (4 mana)
felidar guardian (0 mana)
guardian blinks rallier, rallier brings back fetch (1 mana)
crack fetch and tap fetched land again (3 mana)
SAHEELI FOR THE WIN
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
1) With only 4 mana dorks I think 21 lands will end up being one too few, especially vs decks with a lot of 1-mana-removals. That's what I felt when running 21 lands at least and then I even ran 6 mana dorks.
2) 1 Steam Vents, 1 Mountain and 2 Ghost Quarters will probably lower your chances of playing mana dork on turn 1 or Voice of Resurgance on turn 2. I don't think Steam Vents is necessary in this deck and your list doesn't even run any blue cards apart from Saheeli Rai which many times can be cast for any mana thanks to Oath of Nissa. I would cut the Steam Vents and replace it with a Horizon Canopy (or another fetch).
3) 8 fetch lands are 1 or 2 too few to be able to abuse Lotus Cobra and Renegade Rallier. I would never run fewer than 10 fetches myself.
I agree with nal2, counting fetchlands you have a total of only 14 green sources. Personally, I prefer 18. Also, the more shocklands you run (currently 6 in your list), the more damage you take whenever you draw them and have to play them untapped. If at all possible, play no more than 4 or 5 of them, and as nal2 already pointed out, you don't need Steam Vents anyway.
I would also recommend replacing a Kitchen Finks with a Reflector Mage.
With respect to Militia Bugler: Putting the occasional Saheeli on the bottom shouldn't be an argument against the card. You can just as well shuffle a Saheeli away from the top of your deck with a fetchland or Evo, you just don't see it happen in those cases. While it might feel bad, it's just variance, and you have to keep in mind that whenever you don't see Saheeli with your Bugler trigger, you've come 4 cards closer to the next Saheeli. Instead, you should judge Bugler by what its trigger actually achieves.
Which brings me to the point that, the more I play with Bugler, the less it impresses me. While it usually hits something (but I've also had quite a few complete blanks lately), it rarely does something great. The percentage of hits that are actually relevant (Felidar, Kiki, a handful of cards that matter in the respective matchup) isn't where I want it to be. While in theory, it can find both halves of the combo, in practice there is usually only one Kiki you can find, and chaining Buglers and Felidars for a few turns just doesn't accomplish enough in a format as fast as Modern. Maybe I've just not found the right shell for it yet, so I'll keep testing Bugler some more, but I'm not very high on the card at this point.
The plan is to assemble the combo asap. The more time they get, the more likely they assemble Tron or get to five mana to crack a Oblivion Stone. Mulligan if you don't have combo pieces or sideboard cards.
This matchup should be pretty good after sideboard. Removal for their creatures come in and graveyard shenanigans come out since we are bringing in Rest in Peace. The last cards we take out, Bugler and Oath, could be something else, but we need to make some room for removal.
I'm not gonna lie, this matchup is our worst imo. There are ways to win, but we need to get a little lucky and dodge Terminus which is the main reason this matchup is hard (not getting die triggers for Voice of Resurgence is rough).
This has turned into a pretty good matchup for me lately, especially if they start getting too reactive. The way we lose is if they go aggressive with Mantis Riders and Thalia's Lieutenants. I would recommend NOT sideboarding in Izzet Staticaster here, simply because they run 4 Phantasmal Image. You can also sideboard in Stony Silence in this matchup on the play, on the draw I think it's a little too slow.
This is a classic "a little bit here, a little bit here" sideboard since no maindeck cards are terrible. We do have some great sideboard cards though and the plan is to land a Lone Missionary and start getting it back with Ralliers and Felidar Guardians. I'm usually trimming some combo cards here since the combo is very fragile vs their spells and we usally win by gaining too much life and value or locking them out with Worship. Keeping Acidic Slime in is also important I believe, mainly because of Eidolon of the Great Revel.
Again a "little bit here, a little bit here" sideboard, but here we bring in Rest in Peace so we can bring out some of our graveyard interaction cards. The upside with this matchup comparing to Burn is that they have less interaction so we can combo off more likely. The downside is Worship doesn't help vs Collective Brutality. Overall I think we're a bit favored in this matchup simply because we have so many blockers. Izzet Staticaster shines against Bloodghast, but can also kill Flameblade Adept with the help of Felidar Guardian.
vs Mardu Pyromancer
In this matchup I usually sideboard similar to the Hollow One matchup.
This is a grindfest and while it's tempting to bring in Rest in Peace vs their Tarmogoyfs and such, I believe getting back Voice of Resurgance etc is very good vs all their discard and removal. We don't have a lot to bring out here, but I usually take out some Eldritch Evolutions vs deck with lots of discard/removals and/or counters. Eidolon of Rhetoric is here for Bloodbraid Elf and we can even bring in Izzet Staticaster for their Dark Confidant.
vs Grixis Shadow
This sideboard is very similar to the Jund matchup imo - sometimes we can bring in Rest in Peace, although grinding back our Voices are very strong. I haven't landed on which approach is the best, but the Rest in Peaces are better here because it hoses both Snapcaster Mage and their delve creatures.
This matchup is similar to Humans with two exceptions - 1) Voice of Resurgance is better because of their flash creatures and 2) if they're on Bant, Gaddock Teeg hoses their Collected Company. Worship is also better in this matchups since they're less likely to have an answer for it.
Let me know if you have questions for some other matchups.
In other news, I 5-0'd again yesterday, hopefully the deck gets picked up on Wizards site. I'm getting very close to what I will play at GP Stockholm now, not 100% on 2-3 cards in the sideboard though.
3x Birds of Paradise
3x Noble Hierarch
3x Lotus Cobra
3x Voice of Resurgence
1x Spellskite
3x Reflector Mage
2x Militia Bugler
2x Renegade Rallier
4x Felidar Guardian
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1x Acidic Slime
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Spells (11)
4x Saheeli Rai
4x Oath of Nissa
3x Eldritch Evolution
1x Breeding Pool
1x Flooded Strand
3x Forest
2x Horizon Canopy
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Path to Exile
1x Fiery Justice
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
1x Blood Moon
2x Gaddock Teeg
2x Militia Bugler
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Stonehorn Dignitary
1x Reveillark
G1 he systematically clears my board with Burn spells and takes the offensive with double Snaps into Burn to finish me off.
G2/G3 I out-value him with Voice, Gaddock, Bugler and Rallier while holding back threats to play around Anger of the Gods. Spellskite ends up winning the match by keeping him off the combo via redirecting Pestermite's untap ability and giving me another turn to swing in.
R2 vs Storm (2-0)
G1 Dork into back-to-back Reflector Mages to bounce Baral and then Electromancer next turn. Evolved a Voice into Shalai which he cleared a couple turns later with Grapeshot-Remand-Grapeshot. Fortunately he'd fetched suboptimally so he was one R short of being able to combo out and I killed him with beats next turn.
G2 is hazy, I mull down to 4 but convert it into a combo on ~T4 after he fails to find a mana bear.
R3 vs Burn (1-2)
Super close games. Similar to the Blue Moon matchup the package of Voice, Bugler, and Rallier help me keep a reasonably aggressive board presence and buy me time to evolve into Shalai. This worked well one of the games, but G3 he hit double Eidolon and I had a grip full of 2-3 CMC spells without removal, allowing him to edge me out of the game.
R4 vs Infect (2-0)
G1 I wasn't sure what the opponent was on and kept a 6 with double Bird and double Oath, which converted to Cobra and T4 combo win
G2 I kept a hand with Path, Hierarch, Reflector, and Evo. Bounced his early Glistener, Path'd his Inkmoth, and then evolved Hierarch into Spellskite to lock the game down.
Thoughts:
Dorks - 3 Bird / 3 Hierarch / 3 Cobra felt great. Reliable ramp most of the night and didn't flood out. Blue Moon did land a 3-for-1 Electrolyze hitting Hierarch and Cobra but Rallier subsequently rez-ing Cobra next turn kept this from being a blow-out.
Bugler - nal2's changes have addressed most of my issues with Bugler. I really liked the split of 2 Bugler in the main and 2 in the side.
Rallier - Far from being just a "monkey card", Rallier was key to a lot of important tempo plays, kept 2 CMC hate cards such as Skite on the board, and felt worth including even as a Bugler whiff and RIP nonbo. 2 feels like the right number.
Mainboard Spellskite - MVP of the night by securing two matches, though I have more Infect in my meta than most.
Stonehorn Dignitary - I landed this once vs Burn but I had already walled off his creatures so it just felt a little win-more. I can still see it being good, but I'm a little soft to Burn so this slot might get shuffled around to something like Huntmaster of the Fells. I've been kinda medium on Huntmaster in the past since we can't control his flip very well, but his current synergy with Bugler and Lark, combined with the the value of him generating non-graveyard dependent card advantage and help to the Burn matchup might make him worth revisiting.
4x Felidar Guardian - I understand nal2's argument to run 3, and it's true that I drew a couple mediocre Felidars, but for now I will stick with the set if only to maximize combo rates.
Voice vs Wall - I think you could justify either option right now. All of the 2+ power creatures -- including Voice -- combine to make beats a very real plan B, which won me several games that I don't think I would've won if I'd had Wall instead. After previously getting walloped by some really aggressive lists like Shadow where I was dying with cards in hand I was happy to have Voice’s double block back in the list over Wall’s block + draw.
Reveillark - Copying Lark with Saheeli and rez-ing Bugler + Cobra helped win a game vs Blue Moon. I think I still like it in the side since it's a little slower and not a Bugler hit, running the 3rd Reflector MB over Lark.
Eidolon of Rhetoric - I cut Eidolon because (1) this is a more explosive combo-focused list and Eidolon hurts our own tempo enough that I found myself bringing it in for relatively few matchups outside of Storm-type combo lists, on top of that (2) I hadn't seen as much Storm/KCI locally so Eidolon had been really rotting in the board, and (3) this list had 2x Path, 2x Gaddock, 2x RIP, and Shalai vs Storm and all of that plus Stony (minus Shalai) vs KCI so we aren't completely unprepared for those matchups. Of course, the night that I cut Eidolon I have 2 Storm decks and a KCI deck show up ^_^;. But the Storm match went well tonight so for now I feel vindicated... Maybe it's worth having Eidolon as the final nail on those matchups, but there may be other matchups that need the attention more, such as Burn.
Creatures
4x Birds of paradise
4x lotus cobra
2x voice of resurgence
2x qasali pridemage
4x renegade ralliers
1x reflector mage
4x felidar guardian
2x Bloodbraid elf
1x thragtusk
1x Acidic slime
1x sun titan
Other
4x saheeli
4x oath to nissa
4x eldritch evolution
Land
22
Sideboard
3x fiery Justice
2x remorseful cleric
1x spellskite
1x gaddock teeg
2x Stony silence
1x izzet saticaster
1x avalanche rider
2x lone missionary
1x cataclysmic gearhulk
1x eidolon of rhetoric
Thank you
Everyone: What's our plan vs Terminus? Thought my sideboard was alright vs UW Control but have lost two matches in a row now vs that deck.
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
@Koopa: I'm sure nal2 will add his own thoughts but I found Unified Will to be unreliable due to its creature clause in too many matchups, awkward on mana where we have to leave open (and potentially waste) 1U while the rest of the deck is hungry for mana to develop the board, and perhaps most importantly Gaddock accomplishes many of the same goals while having many advantages / synergies as a 2 CMC creature. I would personally run a 3rd Gaddock before the first Unified Will, but if I really wanted a counterspell I would run Negate before Will.
@nal2: Terminus is one of the main reasons I like the idea of running the extra 2 Buglers in the side, although I haven't gotten to test the matchup yet.
Re: Terminus: I'm currently exploring having a couple of Planeswalkers in the sideboard for the UW Control matchup. Right now I'm trying Ajani Vengeant (which is also good against other matchups) and Venser, the Sojourner, but could see Chandra, Torch of Defiance being good as well. They are a non-combo with Gaddock Teeg in play, so perhaps playing stuff like Domri Rade and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar is smarter, although they are a lot weaker imo.
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen
I just went 3-2 with this list, which isn't bad for a first draft.
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Voice of Resurgence
4 Lotus Cobra
3 Militia Bugler
1 Reflector Mage
1 Eternal Witness
4 Felidar Guardian
1 Siege Rhino
1 Acidic Slime
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Spells
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Glittering Wish
3 Saheeli Rai
1 Primal Command
3 Bring to Light
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
1 Plains
3 Forest
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Bounding Krasis
1 Bring to Light
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Saheeli Rai
1 Slaughter Games
1 Stonehorn Dignitary
2 Stony Silence
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Worship
I beat Humans, Titan Shift, and UR Wizards. I lost to Humans, and RDW.
Wizards: A very close 3 games. I really missed Staticaster in this one.
Titan Shift: He lacked the quantity of interaction he needed to keep me from comboing off two quick games in a row.
Humans: In the match I lost, I had sluggish hands, and I died on turn 4. The match I won was lopsided in the other direction.
Burn: I stuttered, and couldn't quite recover in a close G3.
- It feels like I want a 22nd land, but I'm not positive what should get cut. Maybe a Noble Hierarch? Both matches I lost, I struggled to hit land drops, and the deck generally feels pretty hungry.
- Bugler feels good, but I'm right on the edge of an acceptable number of hits.
- Siege Rhino felt like a million bucks.
- Glittering Wish was consistently good, but I'm not stoked on my current sideboard. Slaughter Games, Fracturing Gust, and Crumble to Dust are iffy to me.
- I felt the lack of Eldritch Evolution a couple of times. Bring to Light is capable of some really cool stuff, but it lack the explosiveness of Evo.
Overall, I had a great time with this build, and I'm going to run it through a few more leagues tomorrow to see if it has legs.However, as you said, at least a few Eldritch Evolutions should probably be in there. Also, neither BTL nor Wish can find Stony Silence or Worship, so mabye different choices should be made there.
-presents a 2 turn clock if untouched
-Saheeli/Kiki copy of Hydra doubles size of original Hydra
-gives non-black builds a large trampler other than Siege Rhino
-Bolt & Push proof, still gets hit by Path & Dismember
-no ETB so no interaction with Felidar and low value floor
a) The thing is, Bugler you can just run out as soon as you hit 3 mana, since removal for it doesn't really matter and a 2/3 can be a useful blocker in various matchups. Tracker usually comes out later, needs more mana to actually come online, and it doesn't always want to get involved in combat right away. And that last point really matters when you get run over by Bloodghast, Goblin Guide, etc. Tracker is a lot better when the game goes long, but Bugler has way more impact short term and especially when facing aggression or removal. They both cost 3, but play very differently in my experience. Bugler's hit rate has been reasonable in my testing, as long as you have something in the ballpark of 25 hits in the deck. The fact that it has a good body to benefit from Noble Hierarch's exalted plays into that (since Hierarch becomes more relevant as a hit). I like it against UW and other grindy decks, as well as matchups where blocking early matters.
b) You actually do combo more consistently with Bugler, but still a little too slow for my taste. It's great at finding a combo piece eventually, but looking at 4 cards doesn't exactly guarantee a combo next turn. More often you go through a chain of Buglers, Walls and Oaths etc until you get there on turn 6 or 7. What we really need are more ways to actually combo by turn 4-5, in order to have a better chance at racing decks like Tron, Storm or KCI.
However I wouldn't say that Hydra does no work against UW Control. If they Path our early Voice / Gaddock then ramping us into a Hydra's 2-turn clock could be dangerous. If they don't have Path in hand a lone Hydra essentially requires them to clear the board with Terminus, allowing us to present a fast clock while committing fewer threats to the board.
For my list I am trying to lean on the graveyard as little as possible -- even the current 3x Voice, 2x Rallier, 1x Lark is pushing it IMO. Knight can still be shrunk down to a 2/2 in the face of opposing hate such as RIP (or our own copy).
Hydra also has trample built in rather than taking a turn off to tutor up Wolf Run with Knight.
Lastly, as I mentioned Hydra is effectively a win con with Saheeli/Kiki. The best case scenario would be T2 Cobra, T3 Hydra, T4 Saheeli copy Hydra, swing for 32 points of trample damage. I doubt that we'll curve out exactly like that very often but in general it's a reasonable mid-late game alternate win-con.
Knight is definitely the safer and more consistent choice, but the rest of the deck is so packed with safe value creatures and we stress the opponent's removal enough with our combo attempts that I'd like to try one copy of a (Bugler/Lark-compatible) Baneslayer style card that really punishes them if they don't have an answer on hand immediately.
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Regarding your Bugler questions:
A) I have cleanly whiffed on two Bugler casts in the last 8 matches including one instance of sending a potentially game-winning Saheeli 2nd from the top to the bottom... but the theoretical hit rate is still quite good (89%) so I'm not worrying about the whiffs much right now. In terms of Bugler vs Tracker I think Bugler is a more consistent mainboard card. When you're on the back foot vs an aggressive deck Bugler gets you another card immediately without additional investment and thus has a more expendable body. When you're trying to pressure a control deck Bugler still gives guaranteed free value and is a true 3-drop rather than waiting for Tracker + land drop. It has a higher floor than Tracker but a lower ceiling. Bugler is also a part of the reason I feel like I even have a chance vs Burn despite running so few dedicated hate cards.
B) I'm not really sure what you mean by unimpactful 2- and 3-drops. The recent builds have added enough higher impact <= 2 power cards that I don't think this is so much of a problem anymore. I also haven't had any issues at all with my current curve. I wouldn't say that Bugler adds any consistency to the combo since he mostly draws you into the flicker half, and I usually side him out vs fast decks where I just want to combo and don't care about card advantage.
I'm going to suck it up and add a couple of Rest in Peaces to the board. Acidic Slime is great at what it does, but I want something else when I'm not going for the kill, or grabbing a Command to stabilize. What do folks think about Baneslayer as a curve topper? I've explored this angle before, but I'm intrigued by the potential to just go get it without question. Other options include (but aren't limited to) Angel of Sanctions, Glorybringer, Thragtusk, and Blood Baron. In particular, I want something that can turn around a bad situation against decks like Burn and Hollow One.
Regarding the Knight/Hydra discussion: I adore Knight, but needing to untap with it has always been the big hangup for me. For Saheeli decks, I want cards to be making a big splash the moment they come down. Hydra occupies a similar space, I think. It's a big beater, and Bugler fetches it, but I'm not sure a mid-range beat-stick is what we're after. At least, not unless it's providing something else (life, a card, etc).
On the topic of Bugler, I'm wavering a bit, at least in a deck with Bring to Lights and Glittering Wish. I currently have 23 hits, but I've been wondering if I'd rather just draw a card. I've been thinking about some fun stuff for that slot: Champion of Wits, Tireless Tracker, Bygone Bishop, Rogue Refiner (I know), and even a Runic Armasaur.
Building this deck now and browsing for lists. I saw this puzzle and had to solve it.
The card needed is a fetch:
play fetch (1 mana)
crack fetch (2 mana)
tap the fetched land for 1 mana (3 mana)
tap the bird (4 mana)
eldritch the bird into renegade rallier (1 mana)
renegade brings back the fetch (2 mana)
crack fetch (3 mana)
tap fetched land (4 mana)
felidar guardian (0 mana)
guardian blinks rallier, rallier brings back fetch (1 mana)
crack fetch and tap fetched land again (3 mana)
SAHEELI FOR THE WIN
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
1) With only 4 mana dorks I think 21 lands will end up being one too few, especially vs decks with a lot of 1-mana-removals. That's what I felt when running 21 lands at least and then I even ran 6 mana dorks.
2) 1 Steam Vents, 1 Mountain and 2 Ghost Quarters will probably lower your chances of playing mana dork on turn 1 or Voice of Resurgance on turn 2. I don't think Steam Vents is necessary in this deck and your list doesn't even run any blue cards apart from Saheeli Rai which many times can be cast for any mana thanks to Oath of Nissa. I would cut the Steam Vents and replace it with a Horizon Canopy (or another fetch).
3) 8 fetch lands are 1 or 2 too few to be able to abuse Lotus Cobra and Renegade Rallier. I would never run fewer than 10 fetches myself.
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen
I would also recommend replacing a Kitchen Finks with a Reflector Mage.
With respect to Militia Bugler: Putting the occasional Saheeli on the bottom shouldn't be an argument against the card. You can just as well shuffle a Saheeli away from the top of your deck with a fetchland or Evo, you just don't see it happen in those cases. While it might feel bad, it's just variance, and you have to keep in mind that whenever you don't see Saheeli with your Bugler trigger, you've come 4 cards closer to the next Saheeli. Instead, you should judge Bugler by what its trigger actually achieves.
Which brings me to the point that, the more I play with Bugler, the less it impresses me. While it usually hits something (but I've also had quite a few complete blanks lately), it rarely does something great. The percentage of hits that are actually relevant (Felidar, Kiki, a handful of cards that matter in the respective matchup) isn't where I want it to be. While in theory, it can find both halves of the combo, in practice there is usually only one Kiki you can find, and chaining Buglers and Felidars for a few turns just doesn't accomplish enough in a format as fast as Modern. Maybe I've just not found the right shell for it yet, so I'll keep testing Bugler some more, but I'm not very high on the card at this point.
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen
vs Tron
+2 Gaddock Teeg
+2 Stony Silence
-3 Voice of Resurgence
-1 Reflector Mage
The plan is to assemble the combo asap. The more time they get, the more likely they assemble Tron or get to five mana to crack a Oblivion Stone. Mulligan if you don't have combo pieces or sideboard cards.
vs UR Storm
+ 2 Rest in Peace
+ 2 Gaddock Teeg
+ 1 Path to Exile
+ 1 Lightning Helix
+ 1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
- 2 Renegade Rallier
- 1 Eternal Witness
- 1 Reveillark
- 1 Acidic Slime
- 1 Militia Bugler
- 1 Oath of Nissa
This matchup should be pretty good after sideboard. Removal for their creatures come in and graveyard shenanigans come out since we are bringing in Rest in Peace. The last cards we take out, Bugler and Oath, could be something else, but we need to make some room for removal.
vs UW Control
+ 2 Gaddock Teeg
+ 1 Geist of Saint Traft
- 2 Reflector Mage
- 1 Lotus Cobra
I'm not gonna lie, this matchup is our worst imo. There are ways to win, but we need to get a little lucky and dodge Terminus which is the main reason this matchup is hard (not getting die triggers for Voice of Resurgence is rough).
vs Humans
+ 1 Path to Exile
+ 1 Lightning Helix
+ 1 Stonehorn Dignitary
+ 2 Worship
- 3 Voice of Resurgence
- 2 Renegade Rallier
- 1 Eternal Witness
This has turned into a pretty good matchup for me lately, especially if they start getting too reactive. The way we lose is if they go aggressive with Mantis Riders and Thalia's Lieutenants. I would recommend NOT sideboarding in Izzet Staticaster here, simply because they run 4 Phantasmal Image. You can also sideboard in Stony Silence in this matchup on the play, on the draw I think it's a little too slow.
vs Burn
+ 2 Worship
+ 1 Lightning Helix
+ 1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
+ 1 Lone Missionary
- 1 Saheeli Rai
- 1 Eldritch Evolution
- 1 Lotus Cobra
- 1 Voice of Resurgence
- 1 Reveillark
This is a classic "a little bit here, a little bit here" sideboard since no maindeck cards are terrible. We do have some great sideboard cards though and the plan is to land a Lone Missionary and start getting it back with Ralliers and Felidar Guardians. I'm usually trimming some combo cards here since the combo is very fragile vs their spells and we usally win by gaining too much life and value or locking them out with Worship. Keeping Acidic Slime in is also important I believe, mainly because of Eidolon of the Great Revel.
vs Hollow One
+ 2 Rest in Peace
+ 1 Path to Exile
+ 1 Lightning Helix
+ 1 Stonehorn Dignitary
+ 1 Izzet Staticaster
- 2 Renegade Rallier
- 1 Voice of Resurgence
- 1 Eternal Witness
- 1 Eldritch Evolution
- 1 Reveillark
Again a "little bit here, a little bit here" sideboard, but here we bring in Rest in Peace so we can bring out some of our graveyard interaction cards. The upside with this matchup comparing to Burn is that they have less interaction so we can combo off more likely. The downside is Worship doesn't help vs Collective Brutality. Overall I think we're a bit favored in this matchup simply because we have so many blockers. Izzet Staticaster shines against Bloodghast, but can also kill Flameblade Adept with the help of Felidar Guardian.
vs Mardu Pyromancer
In this matchup I usually sideboard similar to the Hollow One matchup.
vs Jund
+ 1 Path to Exile
+ 1 Lightning Helix
+ 1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
- 1 Eldritch Evolution
- 1 Lotus Cobra
- 1 Oath of Nissa
This is a grindfest and while it's tempting to bring in Rest in Peace vs their Tarmogoyfs and such, I believe getting back Voice of Resurgance etc is very good vs all their discard and removal. We don't have a lot to bring out here, but I usually take out some Eldritch Evolutions vs deck with lots of discard/removals and/or counters. Eidolon of Rhetoric is here for Bloodbraid Elf and we can even bring in Izzet Staticaster for their Dark Confidant.
vs Grixis Shadow
This sideboard is very similar to the Jund matchup imo - sometimes we can bring in Rest in Peace, although grinding back our Voices are very strong. I haven't landed on which approach is the best, but the Rest in Peaces are better here because it hoses both Snapcaster Mage and their delve creatures.
vs Spirits
+ 2 Worship
+ 1 Path to Exile
+ 1 Lightning Helix
+ 1 Stonehorn Dignitary
+ 1 Izzet Staticaster
(+ 2 Gaddock Teeg if they're green)
- 2 Voice of Resurgence
- 2 Renegade Rallier
- 1 Acidic Slime
- 1 Eldritch Evolution
This matchup is similar to Humans with two exceptions - 1) Voice of Resurgance is better because of their flash creatures and 2) if they're on Bant, Gaddock Teeg hoses their Collected Company. Worship is also better in this matchups since they're less likely to have an answer for it.
Let me know if you have questions for some other matchups.
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen
Bad news: the author, Parker Ackerman, copied Nal2's 5-0 list card for card, put his name on it in the article...
edit: the author says the article will be updated to credit Nal2 / Beakid as soon as they can
I think it would be a fun way to hang out, tune decks together, and discuss slots in real time. Hope to see you all on!
In other news, I 5-0'd again yesterday, hopefully the deck gets picked up on Wizards site. I'm getting very close to what I will play at GP Stockholm now, not 100% on 2-3 cards in the sideboard though.
EDIT: It's up!
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen