First run with the deck 4-1. I made a mistake in game 3 of my 5-0 match vs jeskai Kiki angel control deck. I accidently mulled my good 7 for a less than seller 6. I eventually lost. Fun deck though definitely has power. I really enjoyed having worship in the deck as well
Has anyone every tried magus of the moat? A way to slow down humans and fish. Worship works great but it's not able to be tutored up. Just thinking. I might just be doing result thinking and not big picture.
Magus of the Moat stops us from winning with our own combo. This gives them time to find an answer (Reflector Mage, Dismember etc), and we don't have many ways to get rid of the Magus ourselves once we're ready to combo (Evolution, plus whatever spot removal we have). Also, it doesn't even do anything against flying creatures like Mantis Rider or Flamewake Phoenix, which are some of our biggest concerns.
Since Cobra apparently allows us to cast an RRR spell like Kiki Jiki, we can probably also afford to run Archangel of Tithes. I think I like that more against the aggressive decks, since it has a pretty nice body.
Do we really want Magus of the Tabernacle in a deck with 25+ creatures? We might have enough mana to pay the tax for them, sure, but how does that lead to us winning the game? We still need mana to cast more spells, and it doesn't even stop Mantis Rider, which is probably the key aggressive creature in the format right now.
I ran into the leyline bug today during my 5-0 match. vs burn. I submitted for reimbursement but I would have won on turn 3. I didn't know leyline was bugged on modo
I'm running gearhulk in the side, it's surprisingly versatile, you can catch anything from elves to lantern control (lots of lantern at my LGS) with it. Probably meta dependent though, it seems good against humans, but it's lacklustre vs affinity. Definitely wouldn't maindeck it either.
Went 2-2, winning against Ponza and Esper Superfriends in very convinving fashion and losing two very close matches against UB Control and Goblins. Against UB I really felt the rules change regarding damage redirection: Saheeli and Liliana were on the board for several turns together, but I couldn't stop Lili from ticking up und ultimating. Keeping planeswalkers in check used to be one of Saheeli's great strengths in matchups like this one.
I had several games where Sun Titan, Kiki-Jiki and Acidic Slime were absolutely crucial. Sun Titan somehow slipped through against UB Control and turned the game around completely by returning Saheeli, Rallier, two Oaths and dealing 6 damage to a Liliana the Last Hope with 7 loyalty. Kiki as a game-winning tutor target came up several times, and was also cast from hand as early as turn 3, always ending the game on the spot. Acidic Slime showed up just when my Esper opponent was stuck on two lands, and got to work on those.
Shalai, Reveillark and P&K never came up.
I think I like Wall of Omens over Coiling Oracle just because the mana really gets better this way, but I'll need to play more games to be sure.
On the topic of Gearhulk: It's a very solid card to beat decks with lots of creatures as well as Lantern and Bogles. However, it needs to land at the right time, otherwise it hurts us too much or them too little. It got a little worse with the rise of Hollow One (recursive creatures, Hollow One is an artifact) and the disappearance of Lantern after the recent unbannings. Against Humans, it can't answer Mantis Rider.
How do you guys beat jund? I keep losing to it. What specifically do you do post board and what is bad main deck that you take out? I'm obviously doing something wrong
Jund should be favorable for us as long as we're approaching it as an attrition battle. Because of their suite of interaction, you want each draw to matter as much as possible. Cut some number of mana dorks (Cobra's first), Evolutions, and any bullet cards you feel might be low impact in a grindier game. You want cards (Voice and Rallier) that generate value regardless of whether or not they have a removal spell.
I've seen sigarda, host of herons in a lot of sideboards. What matchups are you looking to bring her in? Control?
Not really control if it's a match up where you expect board wipes or lots of counters, Thrun might be better there.
Jund sometimes runs Damnation I suppose but against their general removal and Liliana Sigarda is great. She's also good against Eldrazi Tron if you expect All Is Dust out of them. I guess she blanks Living End's sacrifice effect?
She's also good against any deck that can't outrace a 5/5 flyer potentially on turn 3 if you Evo into a ramped 3 drop on 2.
After playing some more I think that 3x Felidars is the most awkward number of Felidars. If you want to run a value midrange list (which it looks like you do) I think 1-2 Felidars (with 2-3 Evo) makes sense. If you want to push the combo then 4 Felidars with 4 Evos and Kiki is the way to go, IMO.
With that said I would vote P&K and Lark, swap Thragtusk for Wingmate Roc, and swap the 3rd Felidar for Glorybringer. Shalai gets better (and unfortunately Geahulk gets worse) the wider you make your board, and Roc + P&K + Splicer all support going wide. At that point Gavony starts to look like a more attractive utility Land than Ghost Quarter. Glorybringer can help add a bit of interaction while keeping your mana centered on Naya.
In an unknown meta, I would probably lean toward a combo-heavy build. I have my doubts about running 0 Ralliers, since the card's synergy with Voice (and Oath, even if that comes up less often) makes me want to have access to at least one copy. Also, only 6 fetchlands in a deck with Knight otR? That doesn't seem right, you want to have a good chance to have it out of Lightning Bolt range as early as turn 2. I think 9-12 fetches is where you want to be if possible.
R1 Mono-W Eldrazi & Taxes G1 My opponent lead with inspector after a mull to ~5, and I curve Bird into Cobra. T3 Opponent plays Displacer, and I play Acidic Slime to blow up his only white source. Next turn I chip in with Slime and Cobra, then play Kiki copying Slime. Opponent scoops. G2 Was fuzzy but I mull down to a slower hand leaning on Worship. My opponent hits Flickerwisp and Displacer, essentially invalidating Worship and I die a few turns later. We discussed this later and still feel that it's worth bringing at least one Worship in since he has only 4 outs. G3 I toss the match with a keep of Bird, Cobra, Fiery Justice, Stomping Grounds, and two Fetches. My logic was that I'd be ready to cast essentially anything I drew T4, that Justice can just decimate a lot of Taxes board states, and the extra lands might help if he set up his LD plan... T3 I hit his Inspector and Displacer with Justice (feels good!). On his T4 he plays Reality Smasher and I have meanwhile proceeded to draw two Birds and two more lands (feels bad!). Ded. Lesson learned, in a build with 10x dorks you can't afford to keep a fast hand without a win con. (1-2 in games, 0-1 in matches)
R2 Mono-U Merfolk G1 My opponent has a slow start with no T1 play. I lead with Birds into T2 Reflector Mage to bounce his T2 Lord. T3 I play Saheeli and Reflector Mage, bouncing his 3-drop. T4 I draw another Reflector Mage and by T5 I copy Reflector with Saheeli and swing in with two Cobras and three Reflectors for lethal. G2 My opponent mulls to 4 and I combo out T3 >.< (2-0 in games, 1-1 in matches)
R3 Skred Red
G1 & G2 go pretty similarly, he Skreds my dorks and plays Blood Moon but I ignore it with more Dorks/Oaths and combo out T4-T5. (2-0 in games, 2-1 matches)
R4 Lantern Control G1 My oppponent leads with T1 Inquisition into T2 Pithing Needle naming Saheeli. I have a hand with Wall and Reflector Mage. I proceed to draw three more Saheelis and another Reflector Mage over the course of the game. I take him to 6 life but eventually scoop once he has 4 mill rocks + Cage + double Bridge. G2 I combo out T3 or T4. G3 I keep an amazing hand with Tracker, Shalai, Oath, Cobra, Rec Sage, and two lands. He dismantles a lot of it with triple discard but I draw and stick Saheeli and Oath my way into Gaddock and Slime. He scoops a few turns later. (2-1 in games, 3-1 in matches)
Thoughts & Takeaways
After months of trying to attack an aggro-heavy meta with a 50:50 midrange-combo plan going all-in on combo with 10x Dorks, Walls over Voices, 4x Felidars, 4x Evo, and Kiki has been transformative. Despite some of the oddball decks I played tonight my LGS is converging with the global trend of people playing silly linear decks -- also present tonight were 2 Boggles players, Burn, Affinity, Cheeri0s, Mill, Infect, and more. As much as I miss Siege Rhino (<3) having a consistent, fast, proactive combo plan is the way to go right now.
I was pleasantly surprised with Slime and continue to like it as a land-hate card over Magus of the Moon.
Tireless Tracker was solid and I recommend it over cards like Sigarda due to its better CMC vs Control and application against Prison decks.
After talking with Emzed we agreed that Shalai is an awesome role player but we both found ourselves tutoring her up less than expected and moved her to the side.
Overall the deck performed really well and seemed well-positioned!
Went 4-0 at 20 person FNM with this deck. I've been really liking having two mainboard reflector mages and acidic slime. I'm still not sold on Sun Titan in the main, but I'm not sure what to run in its slot. Huntsmaster is absolutely insane in the deck. It not only acts as life gain and clogs us the board, but it can also remove small toughness creatures. I've only been on the deck for about a month, but overall it has far exceeded my expectations, especially its midrange plan b.
R1: 2-1 against Devoted Druid Company
R2: 2-0 against Ponza
R3: 2-0 against B/W Planeswalker Control
R4: 2-1 against Mardu Pyromancer
I like that list a lot, and in general I'm not as big of a fan of the heavy mana dork lists. I like idea of multiple Reflector Mage as well. Huntmaster seems to be in slot that occasionally gets used for Pia and Kiran Nalarr but that has both the bonus of 3rd creature/evasion it also has double red and no life gain. I'll leave huntmaster in as well for now. Sun Titan seems to be in spot that can either be a Kiki, 3rd Felidar, Glorybringer type of card. I'd leave titan in if want to have extra value for longer attrition/control matchups or as backup combo. I imagine you win less with combo overall and instead just midrange value more often.
I like that list a lot, and in general I'm not as big of a fan of the heavy mana dork lists. I like idea of multiple Reflector Mage as well. Huntmaster seems to be in slot that occasionally gets used for Pia and Kiran Nalarr but that has both the bonus of 3rd creature/evasion it also has double red and no life gain. I'll leave huntmaster in as well for now. Sun Titan seems to be in spot that can either be a Kiki, 3rd Felidar, Glorybringer type of card. I'd leave titan in if want to have extra value for longer attrition/control matchups or as backup combo. I imagine you win less with combo overall and instead just midrange value more often.
Yep. I usually kill with the midrange plan more often than the combo route (usually making copies of reflector mage to bounce the opponent's creatures). I think its better in my LGS meta anyways as people are running more removal than normal.
Was wondering if anyone has strategies/recommendations against control decks, in particular Jeskai and Grixis have been giving me trouble. The dorks die, the Eldritch Evolutions get countered, the Saheelis get bolted, etc. Is it all about trying to rush out a Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon? Feels like both the combo and the midrange plan fall off the radar here.
Went 2-2 tonight with the same list I posted before (4 Cobra, 4 Felidar, Kiki, Reveillark). My wins were not close (vs Blue Tron and Esper Control) whereas both losses (Affinity and Jund) went to 3 games and could have gone either way. Some thoughts:
Reveillark was very good tonight. I drew it twice vs Jund and it dominated the game both times. It's obviously way too slow in combo matchups, but one of the very best tools to win grindy games. If Burn isn't a factor in your meta, it's probably better than Thragtusk.
Pia and Kiran also convinced me tonight. Returning it with Reveillark felt like cheating. Multiple flying blockers (with the option to get even more if you flicker or copy it) is such a huge factor against Affinity or Humans. But, the RR cost was difficult.
Kiki-Jiki won several games, but also got stuck in my hand twice with only two fetchable red sources in my deck. I will definitely add either a second Stomping Ground or basic Mountain for next time.
@Jankoz: Dorks and Evolutions aren't great against those highly interactive decks for the reasons you described, you should trim a few when sideboarding. Try to keep Saheeli out of Bolt range if possible by using +1 unless you are confident that your -2 activation won't be disrupted by removal. Other than that, cards like Voice, Rallier, Thragtusk, Sun Titan, Reveillark, Tireless Tracker and Felidar blinking Oath should gradually generate card advantage. Lean on those cards, chaining enough of them together is your best route to victory. Moon effects and Gaddock Teeg can provide some level of disruption, but will usually not lock them out entirely.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Since Cobra apparently allows us to cast an RRR spell like Kiki Jiki, we can probably also afford to run Archangel of Tithes. I think I like that more against the aggressive decks, since it has a pretty nice body.
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Lotus Cobra
3x Wall of Omens
4x Renegade Rallier
1x Eternal Witness
1x Reflector Mage
4x Felidar Guardian
1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Acidic Slime
1x Reveillark
1x Sun Titan
Other Spells 12
4x Oath of Nissa
4x Saheeli Rai
4x Eldritch Evolution
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Flooded Strand
1x Arid Mesa
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Breeding Pool
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Stomping Ground
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Temple Garden
3x Forest
1x Plains
1x Horizon Canopy
2x Gaddock Teeg
1x Selfless Spirit
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
2x Fiery Justice
1x Stony Silence
1x Damping Matrix
2x Rest in Peace
2x Blood Moon
2x Worship
I had several games where Sun Titan, Kiki-Jiki and Acidic Slime were absolutely crucial. Sun Titan somehow slipped through against UB Control and turned the game around completely by returning Saheeli, Rallier, two Oaths and dealing 6 damage to a Liliana the Last Hope with 7 loyalty. Kiki as a game-winning tutor target came up several times, and was also cast from hand as early as turn 3, always ending the game on the spot. Acidic Slime showed up just when my Esper opponent was stuck on two lands, and got to work on those.
Shalai, Reveillark and P&K never came up.
I think I like Wall of Omens over Coiling Oracle just because the mana really gets better this way, but I'll need to play more games to be sure.
On the topic of Gearhulk: It's a very solid card to beat decks with lots of creatures as well as Lantern and Bogles. However, it needs to land at the right time, otherwise it hurts us too much or them too little. It got a little worse with the rise of Hollow One (recursive creatures, Hollow One is an artifact) and the disappearance of Lantern after the recent unbannings. Against Humans, it can't answer Mantis Rider.
Not really control if it's a match up where you expect board wipes or lots of counters, Thrun might be better there.
Jund sometimes runs Damnation I suppose but against their general removal and Liliana Sigarda is great. She's also good against Eldrazi Tron if you expect All Is Dust out of them. I guess she blanks Living End's sacrifice effect?
She's also good against any deck that can't outrace a 5/5 flyer potentially on turn 3 if you Evo into a ramped 3 drop on 2.
With that said I would vote P&K and Lark, swap Thragtusk for Wingmate Roc, and swap the 3rd Felidar for Glorybringer. Shalai gets better (and unfortunately Geahulk gets worse) the wider you make your board, and Roc + P&K + Splicer all support going wide. At that point Gavony starts to look like a more attractive utility Land than Ghost Quarter. Glorybringer can help add a bit of interaction while keeping your mana centered on Naya.
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Noble Hierarch
4x Lotus Cobra
3x Wall of Omens
3x Renegade Rallier
3x Reflector Mage
4x Felidar Guardian
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Acidic Slime
1x Sun Titan
Spells (12)
4x Oath of Nissa
4x Saheeli Rai
4x Eldritch Evolution
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Flooded Strand
2x Stomping Ground
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Breeding Pool
1x Temple Garden
2x Forest
2x Plains
2x Horizon Canopy
2x Stony Silence
3x Fiery Justice*
2x Worship
2x Gaddock Teeg
1x Selfless Spirit
1x Reclamation Sage
2x Tireless Tracker
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1x Thragtusk
R1 Mono-W Eldrazi & Taxes
G1 My opponent lead with inspector after a mull to ~5, and I curve Bird into Cobra. T3 Opponent plays Displacer, and I play Acidic Slime to blow up his only white source. Next turn I chip in with Slime and Cobra, then play Kiki copying Slime. Opponent scoops.
G2 Was fuzzy but I mull down to a slower hand leaning on Worship. My opponent hits Flickerwisp and Displacer, essentially invalidating Worship and I die a few turns later. We discussed this later and still feel that it's worth bringing at least one Worship in since he has only 4 outs.
G3 I toss the match with a keep of Bird, Cobra, Fiery Justice, Stomping Grounds, and two Fetches. My logic was that I'd be ready to cast essentially anything I drew T4, that Justice can just decimate a lot of Taxes board states, and the extra lands might help if he set up his LD plan... T3 I hit his Inspector and Displacer with Justice (feels good!). On his T4 he plays Reality Smasher and I have meanwhile proceeded to draw two Birds and two more lands (feels bad!). Ded. Lesson learned, in a build with 10x dorks you can't afford to keep a fast hand without a win con.
(1-2 in games, 0-1 in matches)
R2 Mono-U Merfolk
G1 My opponent has a slow start with no T1 play. I lead with Birds into T2 Reflector Mage to bounce his T2 Lord. T3 I play Saheeli and Reflector Mage, bouncing his 3-drop. T4 I draw another Reflector Mage and by T5 I copy Reflector with Saheeli and swing in with two Cobras and three Reflectors for lethal.
G2 My opponent mulls to 4 and I combo out T3 >.<
(2-0 in games, 1-1 in matches)
R3 Skred Red
G1 & G2 go pretty similarly, he Skreds my dorks and plays Blood Moon but I ignore it with more Dorks/Oaths and combo out T4-T5.
(2-0 in games, 2-1 matches)
R4 Lantern Control
G1 My oppponent leads with T1 Inquisition into T2 Pithing Needle naming Saheeli. I have a hand with Wall and Reflector Mage. I proceed to draw three more Saheelis and another Reflector Mage over the course of the game. I take him to 6 life but eventually scoop once he has 4 mill rocks + Cage + double Bridge.
G2 I combo out T3 or T4.
G3 I keep an amazing hand with Tracker, Shalai, Oath, Cobra, Rec Sage, and two lands. He dismantles a lot of it with triple discard but I draw and stick Saheeli and Oath my way into Gaddock and Slime. He scoops a few turns later.
(2-1 in games, 3-1 in matches)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Temple Garden
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Hallowed Fountain
Creatures
1 Acidic Slime
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Felidar Guardian
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Lotus Cobra
1 Noble Hierarch
2 Reflector Mage
4 Renegade Rallier
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 Sun Titan
1 Thragtusk
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Eldritch Evolution
4 Oath of Nissa
4 Saheeli Rai
1 Lone Missionary
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Reflector Mage
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Cataclysmic Gearhulk
1 Rest in Peace
2 Blood Moon
2 Stony Silence
2 Fiery Justice
Went 4-0 at 20 person FNM with this deck. I've been really liking having two mainboard reflector mages and acidic slime. I'm still not sold on Sun Titan in the main, but I'm not sure what to run in its slot. Huntsmaster is absolutely insane in the deck. It not only acts as life gain and clogs us the board, but it can also remove small toughness creatures. I've only been on the deck for about a month, but overall it has far exceeded my expectations, especially its midrange plan b.
R1: 2-1 against Devoted Druid Company
R2: 2-0 against Ponza
R3: 2-0 against B/W Planeswalker Control
R4: 2-1 against Mardu Pyromancer
Yep. I usually kill with the midrange plan more often than the combo route (usually making copies of reflector mage to bounce the opponent's creatures). I think its better in my LGS meta anyways as people are running more removal than normal.
Was wondering if anyone has strategies/recommendations against control decks, in particular Jeskai and Grixis have been giving me trouble. The dorks die, the Eldritch Evolutions get countered, the Saheelis get bolted, etc. Is it all about trying to rush out a Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon? Feels like both the combo and the midrange plan fall off the radar here.
Reveillark was very good tonight. I drew it twice vs Jund and it dominated the game both times. It's obviously way too slow in combo matchups, but one of the very best tools to win grindy games. If Burn isn't a factor in your meta, it's probably better than Thragtusk.
Pia and Kiran also convinced me tonight. Returning it with Reveillark felt like cheating. Multiple flying blockers (with the option to get even more if you flicker or copy it) is such a huge factor against Affinity or Humans. But, the RR cost was difficult.
Kiki-Jiki won several games, but also got stuck in my hand twice with only two fetchable red sources in my deck. I will definitely add either a second Stomping Ground or basic Mountain for next time.
@Jankoz: Dorks and Evolutions aren't great against those highly interactive decks for the reasons you described, you should trim a few when sideboarding. Try to keep Saheeli out of Bolt range if possible by using +1 unless you are confident that your -2 activation won't be disrupted by removal. Other than that, cards like Voice, Rallier, Thragtusk, Sun Titan, Reveillark, Tireless Tracker and Felidar blinking Oath should gradually generate card advantage. Lean on those cards, chaining enough of them together is your best route to victory. Moon effects and Gaddock Teeg can provide some level of disruption, but will usually not lock them out entirely.