Tasigur and ol' gurmmy dodge bolts and pushes. If you run stubborn denial as well then you've got some nice counters for paths as well. Quite powerful, I think. Ranger is cool but unlike the jund version there's no traverse the ulvenwald to tutor it up which is probably what makes it so good in that deck. Thought scour is also great with souls (I'd be ok with only ever playing milled souls from the gy) and giving targets for snapcasters. I've played an Esper-delver-shadow version and was quite unimpressed with Delver. Having street wraiths let you power out shadows faster and can be held as potential tricks too.
You are playing a delver deck with only 24 instants/sorceries. That seems real low. I disagree with your assessment of Tasigur/Gurmag as well. Often playing one of those two early is the best route to victory as they both dodge some of the most common removal spells being played right now (push, bolt, abrupt decay).
Alright! I'll change up my deck. I played tasigur when he came out and just found him to be meh. Since then I have been off playing other decks that just don't care about him. But I have changed up my deck to:
You're playing a Delver deck which happens to run Shadow, not a Shadow midrange. Therefore, maindeck Ranger, Liliana, Souls, Esper Charm are pretty much horrible choices (Liliana, the Last Hope could be understandable, but Of the Veil? You don't want to discard spells in a Snapcaster deck!). Also your Snap count is too low. At the BARE MINIMUM it must be a three-of. But four is just better, expecially if you up your cc1 removal count by one or two (5 between Path and Push seems very low).
My suggestion: cut Ranger, two Liliana, 2 Souls, 2 Esper Charm. Add two Snapcaster, 2 Path/Push, one Tasigur, two Stubborn Denial (seriously, where are the Stubborns? The main reason to play this deck, I would say). You are a go-under deck in game one, while in g2-3 you can be more midrangey if needed (both siding midrangey stuff like Souls or AVisions).
I was trying to go for a midrange deck that played delver. But the deck looks like a mis-mash of a death's shadow deck and a delver deck. Which, is probably not good. I should probably stick to a list from SoDamnLucky's qoute:
It looks like the decks went more of the non-delver route and added lingering souls and path to exile as the white cards. I am really liking the 5-0 MTGO list:
Really wish someone was streaming with Esper Shadow or posting vids. Seems like the deck would have gained enough traction by now for someone to be doing it. I don't have a lot of time to play, so seeing someone else talk through the various matchups would be super helpful. Anyone here stream?
I ran this to a 4-2 record in a local 56 person tournament. The sideboard is not optimal but the maindeck felt decent. AV was terrible out of the sideboard.
I beat Titan Breach twice, Sun and Moon, and Affinity. I should have lost to affinity as he got a cranial plating on an Etched Champion and then didn't pursue his two turn clock allowing me to play EE on 3 and survive.
I lost to Jund Death Shadow and Infect. Infect would been easy had I gotten land 2 in game 3 or drew a non-land game 1. My poor sideboard helped me lose to JDS. Top decking AV late is bad.
I agree with most of your statement. Orzhov Charm was my least impressive card. There were a few times that none of the modes were helpful. Lingering Soulsbeing cast against us is problematic.
Really wish someone was streaming with Esper Shadow or posting vids. Seems like the deck would have gained enough traction by now for someone to be doing it. I don't have a lot of time to play, so seeing someone else talk through the various matchups would be super helpful. Anyone here stream?
I agree. It is hard to find esper death shadow videos, but I found a video of Michael Majors playing esper death shadow here. Some audio portions are muted and the action starts around 1 hour and 3 min. His decklist is here.
Samyou3I streamed some tonight, i think he's going to be looking to stream it some more. He went 4-1 narrowly losing to abzan. The deck looks very good
Samyou3I streamed some tonight, i think he's going to be looking to stream it some more. He went 4-1 narrowly losing to abzan. The deck looks very good
Thanks for letting us know! I found his stream here.
I am looking forward to watching it. It looks like we both have very, very similar decklists (with Liliana of the veil mainboard). My current list is in my signature, but I am tempted to cut the ranger of eos for something else.
thoper combo 1-2 I made a huge mistake this game and it cost me the win.
spirts 0-2 This matchup is really tough. It probably would of been better if my liliana, the last hope would of showed up.
Overall, I am liking the list that I currently have. I run a more mid-range version with only 2 counters mainbord. I am liking liliana of the veil mainboard instead of liliana, the last hope (she is in the side) because LOTV is more applicable to a broader field. Some decks just cannot beat a turn 1 discard, turn 2 discard, turn 3 liliana of the veil. And during the games that I played today LOTV was just better. The games didn't last long enough (or I didn't have a creature in my graveyard) for liliana, the last hope to shine. I am going to test her out some more and liliana, the last hope will definitely be in my 75.
I am still getting a feel for how the deck plays (I have only played 10-ish games with it now) but I am liking the singleton ranger of eos. I am at 3 delve creatures because having more than 1 in your hand is just bad. Since I run a more mid-range build, a single orzhov charm might be decent in this deck to buy-back the snapcasters and/or put the death's shadows back on the battlefield.
The deck did have some really powerful plays though. Turn 3 death's shadow + tasigur after a thoughtseize makes the opponents sigh.
Just recently got this deck together and it feels strong. Went 3-1 at my lgs' Tuesday modern event.
Match 1: Affinity 2-1
Game 1: This game was long and grindy. I drew a lot of removal and 2 snapcasters but couldn't find a fatty. He had two cranial platings on board and it was just a matter of time before I died to a top decked creature.
Game 2: Turn 2 stony silence and a turn 3 tasigur got there pretty quickly.
Game 3: Very close game. I had to take a lot of damage off of an ink moth nexus and got to a scary 8 poison. Eventually landed two death's shadows. He didn't leave enough blockers back and swung for exacts after Orzhov charming his blocker
Match 2: Jund 2-0
Game 1: Had removal for his two creatures, resolved 3 shadows on turn 3. Quick win.
Game 2: Grindy game. Ranger of Eos and Lili, Last hope just kept me miles ahead with shadows on board.
Match 3: Dredge 0-2
Game 1. Outmatched. Not enough removal to keep up with his big board and my fatties were just endlessly chumped.
Game 2: Didn't get much better after boarding. Spell bomb slowed him down but he recovered and took control.
Match 4: Battle of Wits/ Scapeshift/Kiki Chord 2-0
Game 1: This deck is wild. Resolved a Tasigur and took his removal and only win con (scape shift).
Game 2: He resolved a restoration angel and attempted to war gate for what I assume was Kiki jiki. Stubborn denial stopped the war gate, path stopped restoration angel and 2 death's shadows overwhelemed him in a hurry.
Plan to keep playing this deck for the foreseeable future. It's too fun and seems well positioned.
Hi everyone, I have been playing Esper death's shadow since I saw Calebd play it on stream, I have been playing a modified version of his list, which has two lingering souls main with one orzhov charm and no ranger of eos. Is ranger really that good in esper death's shadow?
I just play ranger of eos as a fun one-of. So far, it has been a fine card.
Orzhov charm seems like it would be so great for this deck. You can buy-back snapcasters, bring back death's shadows from the graveyard, or kill a creature. However, people who have played it said that it hasn't been great. I haven't tried it yet though.
I found where CalebD started to play some esper shadow on twitch here.
I started with charms in my initial lists. They seemed great in the beginning. There is obvious synergy with several other cards, has a moderate amount of versatility, and is at a casting cost that makes sense for the deck.
However, as I played more with the deck I began to realize that the most common mode I use is the removal spell aspect of it. I have rarely used the bounce mode as protection or value with snapcaster mage. Our death shadow's are often not in the grave yard. Lastly, I ran into multiple times where I couldn't even use it due to not having enough life.
There are times when one of the modes are real good and then it feels amazing. This helps to mask the shortcomings of the card for a period of time. Unfortunately, there are too many times where the game drags out. You have gotten low, either by dropping your own life or them attacking, and then you top deck it without any hope of being able to use it effectively.
I entered a local tourney with esper shadow Saturday and i won. It was only 12 people though. I beat merfolk, affinity, seismic swans, and ad nauseam with a cut to top 4. beating Hatebears and Ad Nauseam in the top 4. Here is my list, i don't think i would change anything, it was great. None of the matchups were very close. I honestly feel like this is the best shadow shell. People just don't know it yet. It answers small creatures, big creatures, combo decks and it kills quickly. It just does everything you could want
I'm deciding whether to run Grixis or Esper Shadow, and Path to Exile, Lingering Souls, and Stony Silence seem like great reasons to try white. Having read this thread though, it seems like a lot of people have been waffling between incorporating Delver of Secrets or sticking with Street Wraith like the other Shadow shells. I find this confusing.
Do those running Delver find adequate self-damage/card-filtering more difficult to achieve? With no Wraith (and no incidental self-damage options like Lightning Bolt and Kolaghan's Command) isn't Death's Shadow a turn or two later to the party than we'd like? With no reach that red offers, it looks like the Esper lists will precipitate grindier, longer games. Delver doesn't seem like the sort of card suited for that style of play to me, but I haven't sleeved up the deck yet.
The only sideboard cards i didn't touch were the ranger and geist. There weren't any grindy decks there, i am certain i would want them in those matchups. The orzhov charm was pretty good. I only got the chance to use 1 mode though. Against affinity and merfolk. It was fine though. The card that i brought in the most was echoing truth, idk if any of you guys have tried it but it's a great catch all to just about every deck in the format. I got to bounce a couple leylines against ad nauseam. (Which was huge). The 3 stubborn denials main deck i liked a lot, i think it's just important we are able to interact with just about everybody. I brought in the extra 2 vs swans and ad nauseam and they didn't disappoint. Like i said, everything felt great. I think 2 is the right number of souls in the maindeck. I brought them in vs affinity which it's great there. I boarded out street wraith vs the aggressive decks. I feel like i'm more aggressive than i should be with my life total sometimes, it almost cost me a couple games. It was my first time playing a shadow deck though so i'm sure it'll come with time.
On delver i think street wraith is where you want to be. Despite boarding it out in the aggressive matchups it's pretty important in the combo matchups. It enables turn 2 delve threats pretty regularly along with a thought scour. Along with the obvious quicker death's shadow
I tried anguished unmaking, i thought the the lifeloss wasn't worth it. You can't really bring it in for the aggressive matchups. 3 life seems like a lot vs affinity when they're going to be pressuring your life total anyways. Echoing truth is excellent vs affinity, merfolk, lingering souls tokens, tron threats, ensnaring bridge, weird cards like worship, big eldrazi, elves. It's just great. The main appeal is it eats up leyline of sanctity. Which can be a problem against the decks we need to disrupt from the hand. It comes in vs almost everything. And i am playing 1 disenchant. I considered cutting it for the 2nd truth. Disenchant is fine though. I would probably play the 2nd truth over the anguished unmaking
In the delver/shadow builds, i have been playing 4 dismember instead of street wraith. It ups the spell count for delver, takes care of most of the formats creatures, can drop my life quicker than street wraith, and drop it in different chunks (4, 2, or no life, depending on the situation), always trumps street wraith as a pump spell in the mirror ( your shadow gets -5, my shadow gets +4 better than pumping your shadow for 2). Against creatureless builds, once i get to 11 life, i can target my dismember at my own deaths shadow as a pump spell at end of my opponents turn, and it will live as a 6/6.
Hey guys, first time posting in this thread. I'm a mtgo grinder and I've been playing grixis deaths shadow for about 3 weeks, with fairly strong results.
I had great success during the original grixis control era (printing of tasigur and gurmag) with switching to esper and winning the mirror with lingering souls. I'm considering trying this strategy again.
Would you guys say you feel favored in the mirror? I plan on essentially running grixis shadow with souls and path over Command and bolt. (Obviously some of the lists people are posting here are ridiculous, I wouldn't be interested in playing dismember, delver, LotV, orzhov charm, deprive or anything like that)
Let me know your thoughts
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Alright! I'll change up my deck. I played tasigur when he came out and just found him to be meh. Since then I have been off playing other decks that just don't care about him. But I have changed up my deck to:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Death's Shadow
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the golden fang
1 Ranger of Eos
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Liliana of the Veil
Sorcery (13)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Serum Visions
2 Lingering Souls
3 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
2 Orzhov Charm
2 Esper Charm
4 Thought Scour
Lands (19)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Swamp
And after looking at other esper shadow delver decks it seems that they are all pretty similar to this one, except I have ranger of eos, lingering souls, and esper charm instead of gurmag angler and stubborn denial.
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
I was trying to go for a midrange deck that played delver. But the deck looks like a mis-mash of a death's shadow deck and a delver deck. Which, is probably not good. I should probably stick to a list from SoDamnLucky's qoute:
However, here are some decks that did well recently.
1st in a PTQ: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/613705#online
5-2 at a PTQ: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/608547#online
Went 5-0 on MTGO today: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/614486#online
It looks like the decks went more of the non-delver route and added lingering souls and path to exile as the white cards. I am really liking the 5-0 MTGO list:
4 Death's Shadow
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
2 Tasigur, the golden fang
2 Gurmag Angler
Sorcery (13)
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Serum Visions
3 Lingering Souls
4 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
2 Stubborn Denial
4 Thought Scour
Lands (19)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Swamp
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
Also what is the opinion on cards like Anguished Unmaking and Countersquall for the SB ?
4 Death's Shadow
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Street Wraith
Sorceries 11
4 Serum Visions
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Collective Brutality
Instants 14
4 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
2 Orzhov Charm
2 Stubborn Denial
4 Thought Scour
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats
2 Watery Grave
2 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Path to Exile
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Countersquall
3 Ancestral Vision
2 Lingering Souls
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Disenchant
2 Stony Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
I ran this to a 4-2 record in a local 56 person tournament. The sideboard is not optimal but the maindeck felt decent. AV was terrible out of the sideboard.
I beat Titan Breach twice, Sun and Moon, and Affinity. I should have lost to affinity as he got a cranial plating on an Etched Champion and then didn't pursue his two turn clock allowing me to play EE on 3 and survive.
I lost to Jund Death Shadow and Infect. Infect would been easy had I gotten land 2 in game 3 or drew a non-land game 1. My poor sideboard helped me lose to JDS. Top decking AV late is bad.
I agree with most of your statement. Orzhov Charm was my least impressive card. There were a few times that none of the modes were helpful. Lingering Soulsbeing cast against us is problematic.
I agree. It is hard to find esper death shadow videos, but I found a video of Michael Majors playing esper death shadow here. Some audio portions are muted and the action starts around 1 hour and 3 min. His decklist is here.
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
Thanks for letting us know! I found his stream here.
I am looking forward to watching it. It looks like we both have very, very similar decklists (with Liliana of the veil mainboard). My current list is in my signature, but I am tempted to cut the ranger of eos for something else.
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
Overall, I am liking the list that I currently have. I run a more mid-range version with only 2 counters mainbord. I am liking liliana of the veil mainboard instead of liliana, the last hope (she is in the side) because LOTV is more applicable to a broader field. Some decks just cannot beat a turn 1 discard, turn 2 discard, turn 3 liliana of the veil. And during the games that I played today LOTV was just better. The games didn't last long enough (or I didn't have a creature in my graveyard) for liliana, the last hope to shine. I am going to test her out some more and liliana, the last hope will definitely be in my 75.
Here is my current decklist:
4 Death's Shadow
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Gurmag Angler
4 Street Wraith
1 Ranger of Eos
Sorceries (12)
4 Serum Visions
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Lingering Souls
Instants (12)
3 Fatal Push
3 Path to Exile
2 Stubborn Denial
4 Thought Scour
2 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (19)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats
2 Watery Grave
2 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Collective Brutality
2 Countersquall
1 Damnation
1 Disenchant
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Esper Charm
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Lingering Souls
2 Surgical Extraction
I am still getting a feel for how the deck plays (I have only played 10-ish games with it now) but I am liking the singleton ranger of eos. I am at 3 delve creatures because having more than 1 in your hand is just bad. Since I run a more mid-range build, a single orzhov charm might be decent in this deck to buy-back the snapcasters and/or put the death's shadows back on the battlefield.
The deck did have some really powerful plays though. Turn 3 death's shadow + tasigur after a thoughtseize makes the opponents sigh.
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
Match 1: Affinity 2-1
Game 1: This game was long and grindy. I drew a lot of removal and 2 snapcasters but couldn't find a fatty. He had two cranial platings on board and it was just a matter of time before I died to a top decked creature.
Game 2: Turn 2 stony silence and a turn 3 tasigur got there pretty quickly.
Game 3: Very close game. I had to take a lot of damage off of an ink moth nexus and got to a scary 8 poison. Eventually landed two death's shadows. He didn't leave enough blockers back and swung for exacts after Orzhov charming his blocker
Match 2: Jund 2-0
Game 1: Had removal for his two creatures, resolved 3 shadows on turn 3. Quick win.
Game 2: Grindy game. Ranger of Eos and Lili, Last hope just kept me miles ahead with shadows on board.
Match 3: Dredge 0-2
Game 1. Outmatched. Not enough removal to keep up with his big board and my fatties were just endlessly chumped.
Game 2: Didn't get much better after boarding. Spell bomb slowed him down but he recovered and took control.
Match 4: Battle of Wits/ Scapeshift/Kiki Chord 2-0
Game 1: This deck is wild. Resolved a Tasigur and took his removal and only win con (scape shift).
Game 2: He resolved a restoration angel and attempted to war gate for what I assume was Kiki jiki. Stubborn denial stopped the war gate, path stopped restoration angel and 2 death's shadows overwhelemed him in a hurry.
Plan to keep playing this deck for the foreseeable future. It's too fun and seems well positioned.
Orzhov charm seems like it would be so great for this deck. You can buy-back snapcasters, bring back death's shadows from the graveyard, or kill a creature. However, people who have played it said that it hasn't been great. I haven't tried it yet though.
I found where CalebD started to play some esper shadow on twitch here.
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
However, as I played more with the deck I began to realize that the most common mode I use is the removal spell aspect of it. I have rarely used the bounce mode as protection or value with snapcaster mage. Our death shadow's are often not in the grave yard. Lastly, I ran into multiple times where I couldn't even use it due to not having enough life.
There are times when one of the modes are real good and then it feels amazing. This helps to mask the shortcomings of the card for a period of time. Unfortunately, there are too many times where the game drags out. You have gotten low, either by dropping your own life or them attacking, and then you top deck it without any hope of being able to use it effectively.
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
3 Path to Exile
3 Fatal Push
4 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Stubborn Denial
1 Orzhov Charm
2 Lingering Souls
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Marsh Flats
2 Godless Shrines
2 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Countersquall
1 Path to Exile
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Disenchant
1 Echoing Truth
2 Collective Brutality
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Lingering Souls
1 Ranger of Eos
Do those running Delver find adequate self-damage/card-filtering more difficult to achieve? With no Wraith (and no incidental self-damage options like Lightning Bolt and Kolaghan's Command) isn't Death's Shadow a turn or two later to the party than we'd like? With no reach that red offers, it looks like the Esper lists will precipitate grindier, longer games. Delver doesn't seem like the sort of card suited for that style of play to me, but I haven't sleeved up the deck yet.
Any insight?
On delver i think street wraith is where you want to be. Despite boarding it out in the aggressive matchups it's pretty important in the combo matchups. It enables turn 2 delve threats pretty regularly along with a thought scour. Along with the obvious quicker death's shadow
I tried anguished unmaking, i thought the the lifeloss wasn't worth it. You can't really bring it in for the aggressive matchups. 3 life seems like a lot vs affinity when they're going to be pressuring your life total anyways. Echoing truth is excellent vs affinity, merfolk, lingering souls tokens, tron threats, ensnaring bridge, weird cards like worship, big eldrazi, elves. It's just great. The main appeal is it eats up leyline of sanctity. Which can be a problem against the decks we need to disrupt from the hand. It comes in vs almost everything. And i am playing 1 disenchant. I considered cutting it for the 2nd truth. Disenchant is fine though. I would probably play the 2nd truth over the anguished unmaking
I had great success during the original grixis control era (printing of tasigur and gurmag) with switching to esper and winning the mirror with lingering souls. I'm considering trying this strategy again.
Would you guys say you feel favored in the mirror? I plan on essentially running grixis shadow with souls and path over Command and bolt. (Obviously some of the lists people are posting here are ridiculous, I wouldn't be interested in playing dismember, delver, LotV, orzhov charm, deprive or anything like that)
Let me know your thoughts