I think lingering souls makes you pretty favored in the mirror. You could potentially play things like Phyrexian unlife as well for the grixis shadow mirror
Here's my list, been winning FNMs consistently with this version give or take a card or two difference while tweaking. Fairly confident it's the strongest version of shadow that I've played of the all the variants. Access to path and white sideboard hosers have been great and lingering souls fit the plan so well to not only keep applying pressure but also to control your life total against aggressive decks so that your big hitters rarely have to hang back on defense. Been testing Mana leak over extra Inquisitions and they feel really powerful in this shell where we often apply a faster clock than even turn 1 delvers from back in the day when leak was at it's best then.
My local meta features a lot of tiered decks and a lot of grind. Lots of bant/abzan company, affinty, burn, Tron, and the occasional jank
I would stick with 3 Surgical Extraction over the Spellbombs, personally. Seems great in so many matchups, and with 4 Snapcasters we only have to keep up 2 mana to flash it back.
I've always been a bit skeptical of Ashiok in modern--I get why it can be good, but having no impact on the turn you play it really hurts. I think in its place I'd run some sort of catch-all answer like Echoing Truth, Detention Sphere, or Anguished Unmaking.
I've been playing Esper Shadow online and am going to be moving forward playing it in paper. I like it so much more than Grixis because Path to Exile is just so much better than Terminate, and the sideboard cards are second to none.
Also, I saw this at Modern Monday this past week and am totally stealing this idea to try out: Phyrexian Unlife.
I agree with surgical being better in general, but I like having things like spellbomb for kolaghans command style decks where the drawing cards is important. Orzhov Charm felt weak in the main, but I actually like it in theory out of the side. Having an instant speed death's shadow could be really crucial when holding up stubborn denial mana all game. The removal mode was also pretty cool, allowed me to kill someone out of nowhere by killing a 5/6 got eot. The 3rd Lingering Souls felt great, collective Brutality I reduced in favor of another denial, as I feel that's better in just about every match up that Brutality would be used in. Ashiok was insane vs Jund shadow. I boarded into a pseudo-control deck with Damnation, Ranger, and more removal, and ashiok generated free threats over and over. Really liking it.
Edit:Regarding tendrils: It was pointed out to me that affinity and company decks are already pretty good match ups post sideboard, whereas Jund or Bant eldrazi are more difficult. So Damnation replaced them. And often when brining in wraths I felt that I was more controlling anyways, and would rather have a more complete wrath.
I mean i think Bant Eldrazi is just going to be a really tough matchup (Maybe the toughest). I don't think Damnation is going to sway the matchup that much. You're going to want the 2nd brutality when you play vs burn or a company deck. Stubborn denial is great vs the company decks too and pretty good vs the burn matchup but brutality is an A+ in those matchups
Burn spells do deal infect damage at 0 life but it is still very good against "Burn" as it doesn't force you to gain life
(which you don't really want to do with DS) and ignores Skullcrack effects completely.
It is similar to a spell that gains you 10 life and says lifegain can't be prevented.
Hey man, I like the list. I am currently transitioning from grixis delver to DS (now that I have the money and time to buy the DS and Wraiths), and I really believe Esper is the way to go. If you are willing and have time, I'd be interested in hearing how you sideboard in various matchups. The list looks strong, and I'd like to get a head start on learning the different matchups while I wait for my cards. Thanks!
I've seen Phyrexian Unlife in more sideboards but I never quite grasped what it does and in what match-ups you want it?
If I remember correctly, instant and sorcery spells do not deal infect damage when you are at 0 life? They have to attack you with 10 damage on the board? So I guess it does wonders against Burn, and Combo?
Yeah it's basically an extra 10 or more life. It actively pumps your shadows when you're in the negative too. It's mostly for burn but it's probably pretty decent vs merfolk and zoo too. It's good against lightning storm out of ad nauseam as well
I took Esper to FNM and the deck played pretty well. Having access to Path and Souls felt incredible in the mirror. But I have a question to pose for those running any flavor of Shadow: Are you all activating Tasigur with any real frequency? I found that the 4/5 body was a huge detriment against opposing Gurmags and Tarmogoyfs. The extra delve cost can sometimes matter, but I'm considering cutting my Tasigurs for all Gurmag next time. Thoughts?
I took Esper to FNM and the deck played pretty well. Having access to Path and Souls felt incredible in the mirror. But I have a question to pose for those running any flavor of Shadow: Are you all activating Tasigur with any real frequency? I found that the 4/5 body was a huge detriment against opposing Gurmags and Tarmogoyfs. The extra delve cost can sometimes matter, but I'm considering cutting my Tasigurs for all Gurmag next time. Thoughts?
I only activate if I have 5+ mana. I have lost a lot of Tasigurs to removal as soon as I tapped out for it, leaving up 1-2 mana represents that you can protect it. Also, not activating it telegraphs that you have some kind of protection/counter spell that you are saving. I am currently running a 2/2 split on Tas/Angler.
I agree about waiting until five mana. And five mana happens so infrequently in an 18-19 land deck that it makes me think running only Gurmag Angler just for the 5/5 body is reasonable. I played a Tasigur on Friday into a Grixis Control player's Tasigur, and if mine had just been Gurmag I would've basically won on the spot. Deckbuilding around that situation feels more beneficial than hoping for a meaningful Tasigur activation in our deck.
I agree about waiting until five mana. And five mana happens so infrequently in an 18-19 land deck that it makes me think running only Gurmag Angler just for the 5/5 body is reasonable. I played a Tasigur on Friday into a Grixis Control player's Tasigur, and if mine had just been Gurmag I would've basically won on the spot. Deckbuilding around that situation feels more beneficial than hoping for a meaningful Tasigur activation in our deck.
I think the upside of it being that much easier to play on turn 2 is too appealing. It does do well in the long game as well. You don't need that much to play a turn 2 tasigur, feels significantly more with Gurmag. Need an extra card like a 2nd street wraith
That might sometimes happen, true. With a non-fetch, fetchland, and Thought Scour, you can afford a Tasigur but not a Gurmag on T2, which in classic Grixis strategies (I played Delver for 2 years) is very standard. But this deck runs 11-12 fetchlands AND Street Wraiths. If both lands are fetches, Gurmag is active with a Thought Scour. Street Wraith improves those odds. And really, I don't think we're desperate to stick a turn 2 threat, especially in Esper. Holding up Path and Fatal Push or playing discard on turn 2 is often the play anyway.
I still think the 5/5 body against opponent Tasigurs and Tarmogoyfs (these 2 are all over the place, at least where I play) is a larger boon than late-game activations that almost never happen. I'll just have to playtest and check back!
Awesome! Looks like its only noteworthy decision is more Lingering Souls and no Liliana of the Last Hope anywhere in the 75. Really a statement about the value of Souls in fair match-ups, I think.
How do we feel about the devoted druid company deck? Do you feel like we should have some things in the board for it or do you feel like we are decently set up to beat them? I think we want all 4 stubborn denials post board if you have them. I think the chords and companies are too important
Previously I've done a lot of work with Esper transcendent and delve so I'm pretty familiar with the basic core of the deck. I've been having a lot of success with delve in the past few weeks so I decided to pick up a set of shadows and see the difference.
I opted for 4 paths over surgical because I see lots of eldrazi and delve creatures in my meta.
As far as my sideboard is concerned I'm open to suggestions. Do you think geist is a good option as an alternative threat when you can't reliably delve? Should I have a 3rd denial in the 75? Opinions on Lilly otv?
Thanks for sharing! That's the direction my list has been moving -- more creatures, more counters. I'm running 4 DS/4 delvers in my list, but that's felt like I'm short on threats. I like that you've added another Gurmag Angler and the three Deprive for additional protection. On MTGO I've found that many opponents will carelessly run into counters like Stubborn Denial, so I'd been considering the best way to work more permission in. Have you missed the early interaction from the reduced discard package (no IoK)?
Orzhov Charm looks underpowered, but I can envisage a few blowout opportunities as an EOT flashed DS or blocker removal + quick life loss for an alpha strike. LTLH is a card I've been kicking around as well; the cost has put me off until I'm certain that she's what I'm looking for in that slot. I'd love to work LOTV in, but she's more removal in an already stacked deck.
For your SB, what do you find yourself using Engineered Explosives and Celestial Purge against -- Affinity and Abzan for the former, Dredge and Jund for the latter? No issues with EE being much slower than Flaying Tendrils?
Feeling short on creatures is probably a result of a couple things for me. One -- I'm probably a little too cavalier playing an early threat without being able to Denial against decks that play removal. Two -- finding a second threat once the first has eaten a Path or Push can be dicey when I'm now behind on board state and drawing at 7 out of X cards.
That's where I like your list (plus me playing a little more cautiously when needed). An extra Angler plus a Charm (or LTLH) are more firepower, Deprive and upping the maindeck Denial are more protection. Definitely going to try those changes.
I've liked Tendrils versus Affinity, but also for the odd 8 Whacker/Elves/Zoo match-up or the Abzan Counter Company that's everywhere online. Like you point out though, weaker in the mirror and Junk/Jund variations plus more flexible in the smatterings of long-tail decks out there.
Thanks again for sharing. I'll be playing a similar decklist and I'll let you know how it fares on MTGO.
Hey i split first at a 60 person iq in Columbus yesterday. I went undefeated all the way up to the finals. Deck felt very strong. You can find my list on the SCG page. On orzhov charm, it overperformed for me every round. I think 1 of is great. I'll get more detailed later
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4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Thoughtseize
4 Thought Scour
4 Serum Visions
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Stubborn Denial
3 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
2 Lingering Souls
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats
2 Watery Grave
2 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Ceremonius Rejection
2 Collective Brutality
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Flaying Tendrils
1 Stony Silence
2 Path to Exile
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Ranger of Eos
I feel like the main deck is pretty solid, but the sideboard I'm not sure on. Could I get some critique there please?
"I do have fun. Winning is fun."
Modern URB Grixis Shadow
EDH URG Animar
My local meta features a lot of tiered decks and a lot of grind. Lots of bant/abzan company, affinty, burn, Tron, and the occasional jank
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Serum Visions
3 Thought Scour
3 Path to Exile
3 Fatal Push
4 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Mana Leak
3 Lingering Souls
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Marsh Flats
2 Godless Shrines
2 Watery Grave
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Countersquall
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Disenchant
2 Collective Brutality
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Liliana, the last hope
1 flaying tendrils
1 Damnation
1 nihil spellbomb
1 spell snare
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
2 Ceremonius Rejection
2 Collective Brutality
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Flaying Tendrils
1 Stony Silence
2 Path to Exile
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Ranger of Eos
I would stick with 3 Surgical Extraction over the Spellbombs, personally. Seems great in so many matchups, and with 4 Snapcasters we only have to keep up 2 mana to flash it back.
I was thinking I'd run Damnation, but Flaying Tendrils actually seems great for Dredge, Voice of Resurgence, Elves, etc. I guess this one's meta-dependent.
I've always been a bit skeptical of Ashiok in modern--I get why it can be good, but having no impact on the turn you play it really hurts. I think in its place I'd run some sort of catch-all answer like Echoing Truth, Detention Sphere, or Anguished Unmaking.
Really like your mainboard, btw.
Also, I saw this at Modern Monday this past week and am totally stealing this idea to try out: Phyrexian Unlife.
Looking to run this next week:
4x Flooded Strand
1x Godless Shrine
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
4x Marsh Flats
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
Sorcery (12)
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Serum Visions
4x Thoughtseize
3x Fatal Push
1x Orzhov Charm
3x Path to Exile
3x Stubborn Denial
4x Thought Scour
Creature (15)
4x Death's Shadow
2x Gurmag Angler
3x Snapcaster Mage
4x Street Wraith
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Planeswalker (1)
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1x Collective Brutality
2x Countersquall
2x Disenchant
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Lingering Souls
2x Phyrexian Unlife
2x Stony Silence
2x Surgical Extraction
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
1 Collective Brutality
2 Stubborn Denial
1 Path to Exile
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Stony Silence
1 Damnation
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Lingering Souls
1 Orzhov Charm
I agree with surgical being better in general, but I like having things like spellbomb for kolaghans command style decks where the drawing cards is important. Orzhov Charm felt weak in the main, but I actually like it in theory out of the side. Having an instant speed death's shadow could be really crucial when holding up stubborn denial mana all game. The removal mode was also pretty cool, allowed me to kill someone out of nowhere by killing a 5/6 got eot. The 3rd Lingering Souls felt great, collective Brutality I reduced in favor of another denial, as I feel that's better in just about every match up that Brutality would be used in. Ashiok was insane vs Jund shadow. I boarded into a pseudo-control deck with Damnation, Ranger, and more removal, and ashiok generated free threats over and over. Really liking it.
Edit:Regarding tendrils: It was pointed out to me that affinity and company decks are already pretty good match ups post sideboard, whereas Jund or Bant eldrazi are more difficult. So Damnation replaced them. And often when brining in wraths I felt that I was more controlling anyways, and would rather have a more complete wrath.
"I do have fun. Winning is fun."
Modern URB Grixis Shadow
EDH URG Animar
(which you don't really want to do with DS) and ignores Skullcrack effects completely.
It is similar to a spell that gains you 10 life and says lifegain can't be prevented.
Hey man, I like the list. I am currently transitioning from grixis delver to DS (now that I have the money and time to buy the DS and Wraiths), and I really believe Esper is the way to go. If you are willing and have time, I'd be interested in hearing how you sideboard in various matchups. The list looks strong, and I'd like to get a head start on learning the different matchups while I wait for my cards. Thanks!
Yeah it's basically an extra 10 or more life. It actively pumps your shadows when you're in the negative too. It's mostly for burn but it's probably pretty decent vs merfolk and zoo too. It's good against lightning storm out of ad nauseam as well
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I only activate if I have 5+ mana. I have lost a lot of Tasigurs to removal as soon as I tapped out for it, leaving up 1-2 mana represents that you can protect it. Also, not activating it telegraphs that you have some kind of protection/counter spell that you are saving. I am currently running a 2/2 split on Tas/Angler.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I think the upside of it being that much easier to play on turn 2 is too appealing. It does do well in the long game as well. You don't need that much to play a turn 2 tasigur, feels significantly more with Gurmag. Need an extra card like a 2nd street wraith
I still think the 5/5 body against opponent Tasigurs and Tarmogoyfs (these 2 are all over the place, at least where I play) is a larger boon than late-game activations that almost never happen. I'll just have to playtest and check back!
4x Flooded Strand
2x Godless Shrine
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
4x Marsh Flats
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
Sorcery (12)
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Lingering Souls
4x Serum Visions
4x Thoughtseize
4x Death's Shadow
3x Gurmag Angler
3x Snapcaster Mage
4x Street Wraith
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Instant (13)
3x Fatal Push
4x Path to Exile
2x Stubborn Denial
4x Thought Scour
Planeswalker (1)
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Anguished Unmaking
2x Collective Brutality
1x Disenchant
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Esper Charm
2x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Phyrexian Unlife
2x Stony Silence
3x Surgical Extraction
Previously I've done a lot of work with Esper transcendent and delve so I'm pretty familiar with the basic core of the deck. I've been having a lot of success with delve in the past few weeks so I decided to pick up a set of shadows and see the difference.
I opted for 4 paths over surgical because I see lots of eldrazi and delve creatures in my meta.
As far as my sideboard is concerned I'm open to suggestions. Do you think geist is a good option as an alternative threat when you can't reliably delve? Should I have a 3rd denial in the 75? Opinions on Lilly otv?
Edit: updated list
Orzhov Charm looks underpowered, but I can envisage a few blowout opportunities as an EOT flashed DS or blocker removal + quick life loss for an alpha strike. LTLH is a card I've been kicking around as well; the cost has put me off until I'm certain that she's what I'm looking for in that slot. I'd love to work LOTV in, but she's more removal in an already stacked deck.
For your SB, what do you find yourself using Engineered Explosives and Celestial Purge against -- Affinity and Abzan for the former, Dredge and Jund for the latter? No issues with EE being much slower than Flaying Tendrils?
That's where I like your list (plus me playing a little more cautiously when needed). An extra Angler plus a Charm (or LTLH) are more firepower, Deprive and upping the maindeck Denial are more protection. Definitely going to try those changes.
I've liked Tendrils versus Affinity, but also for the odd 8 Whacker/Elves/Zoo match-up or the Abzan Counter Company that's everywhere online. Like you point out though, weaker in the mirror and Junk/Jund variations plus more flexible in the smatterings of long-tail decks out there.
Thanks again for sharing. I'll be playing a similar decklist and I'll let you know how it fares on MTGO.