Playing the things we want is not the issue most of the times because we charge our rocks up quite fast so the impact of sculptor is not worth it in my opinion.
He is also a creature with a small body which dies to all kinds of removal, but where coretapper can sac itself for even more game impact, sculpter can not.
It also depends on the build, so in mine, i play lots of planeswalker which arent affected by sculptor.
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Well yes and no.
The answer to that question depends on which kind of strategy you prefer.
If you want an all in combo strategy, the Paradox engine is sure as hell in the list. If you play a grindier version it may not see play.
The archetypes of the dice shell in the discord chat are marked as:
1 - Paradox combo
2 - stompy
3 - scepter combo
4 - thopter sword
5 - toolbox prison(list from gp prague; played by Camillo Lukesh)
So there are plenty of versions to chose from
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I've been working on a Magistrate's Scepter deck for the past 4 months and decided to check out how other people were using Paradox Engine on this site to see if i could find any other cool interactions, win cons, or consistency that i was lacking.
Stirring seems like it could be a good early game dig piece and i love that Wildfire is in your list. how do they work for you? Is Wildfire there to buy time in case you don't have infinite turns set up by turn 3/4?
Happy New Year everyone! I created a deck based on Paradox Engine and it turned out to be fairly similar to the Factory deck. Just put it here for reference. The main deck forces opponent to lose with Slaughter Pact, or decks opponent with Elixir of Immortality.
And if anyone is interested, here is a list of combos this deck can pull out, sideboard considered. The fun here is that all cards other than Natural State in the sideboard are tutor-able with Glittering Wish, and with Djinn Illuminatus, we can put all the combos in hand.
Infinite Draw, the basic combo: Paradox Engine + 2 Temple Bell + enough artifact Mana. 2 Temple Bell gives practical infinite draw at 2/3 hit chance per draw. When in doubt, make it 3 along the way.
How have the current versions of this deck fared against T1 recently? I built something around the engine about a year ago using Aetherflux or Ballista to win.
As Ratwohl #217 pointed out this combo has potential of turn 2 kill. Unfortunately I have not encountered such draw. My goldfish draws yield 1/3 turn 4 kill, 1/3 turn 5 kill and 1/3 fizzle, which is acceptable for casual. For competitive, maybe something like 1/2, 1/4, 1/4, with some lucky turn 3.
So any suggestions as to improve the speed or opening consistency?
Well the deck is quite good at the moment, but i guess with the banning of kci it will get more attention and will be played by more people which may result in more good tournament placements.
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Hi guys, I'm interested in doing a thopter/sword dice factory smashup. I know thopter sword inside and out, but I'm not sure about the numbers on the dice factory engine. I would assume 4 nodes and 4 coretappers are essential, but do you have to play 4 copies of both everflowing chalice and cornucopia? What is like the minimum number to run if you're looking at the low end, like 4 and 2?
The reason I want to use a dice factory engine is because I want to use clock of omens as an infinite engine for thopter sword, which requires a mana rock, so I thought why not maximize how good your mana rocks actually are.
I can advise to join the Dice Factory discord where we have various forms of dice factory builds including thopter sword builds.
I have included a 2/2 split in my list that i am currently playing.
About the numbers of everflowing chalice: people tend to play 3 but i still run the full 4.
I don't know if clock of omens is really needed because Filigree Sages exist. With Cornucopia charged to 4 counters makes infinite mana as well, but it is still a creature.
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Thanks Heskatet for the info. I like clock of omens because it makes infinite thopters with sword + foundry + any mana rock, like an opal, without needing a mana rock with 4 or more charge counters, and because it isn't a creature.
I threw a list together and went 4-1 in a mtgo friendly league. The deck was way more swingy than a typical thopter sword list, ramping quickly, but having a harder time being consistent and assembling stuff. I really wanted another mana sink (1 inventors fair was always nice), or another thing to put charge counters on for value, other than mana rocks.
Because thopter sword was my only combo, coretapper played a little poorly, whereas turn 1 surge node and rock was always sweet. I think I either need to up the number of payoffs, or cut the number of charge counter producers. Either way, deck was very fun to pilot.
Magistrate's scepter is a charge counter sink you can try.
I often use coretapper as a tempo play: play him, sac him, ramp a rock for 2 and have more mana than the opponent the next turn to power out stuff.
I don't know if you joined the discord yet, but look it up and look at all the archetypes there and get inspired by them.
I, personally, am a player that wants to have a solution for most situations in the game. So that is why i also play planeswalkers as additional threats and for the case if stony silence is on the board.
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Whats the updated most promising list(s)? I am in the discord and I have trouble finding what people are currently playing. I think this archetype has a lot of promise, just needs refining process to happen a la KCI.
I have had success with this at FNM. I call the deck "Memnarchs Paradox". Great fun!
Did you know Memnarch lives in the Darksteel Citadel and created the Myr as mindless servitors?
I arrived at Citanul for the 2nd half of the Paradox combo and Memnarch / Ballista for the win condition after serious thought and careful logical reasoning. I claim there are no better options for the "all in on Paradox combo" version of the deck.
Fabricate could be Whir in a control heavy meta; countered Fabricate sucks. A single Filigree Sages isn't bad, but doesn't jive with Everflowing Chalice. The deck can make all five colours so the sideboard is highly tunable. Too bad Stony Silence is lights out.
Has anybody tested the above deck from GPash? It definitely looks interesting with the inclusion of Blightsteel Colossus. I would be curious to hear some thoughts.
Yeah people in the Dice Factory discord are testing this list (or a really close to it). So maybe just join in and see what they are discussing. I personally haven't tested it so I can't give you any insights.
Private Mod Note
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
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He is also a creature with a small body which dies to all kinds of removal, but where coretapper can sac itself for even more game impact, sculpter can not.
It also depends on the build, so in mine, i play lots of planeswalker which arent affected by sculptor.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
The answer to that question depends on which kind of strategy you prefer.
If you want an all in combo strategy, the Paradox engine is sure as hell in the list. If you play a grindier version it may not see play.
The archetypes of the dice shell in the discord chat are marked as:
1 - Paradox combo
2 - stompy
3 - scepter combo
4 - thopter sword
5 - toolbox prison(list from gp prague; played by Camillo Lukesh)
So there are plenty of versions to chose from
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
1 Academy Ruins
2 Inventors' Fair
3 Darksteel Citadel
3 Aether Hub
4 Glimmervoid
4 Spire of Industry
1 Forest
Artifacts - 24
3 Everflowing Chalice
4 Astral Cornucopia
3 Mox Opal
4 Surge Node
4 Coretapper
2 Voltaic Key
3 Magistrate's Scepter
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Board the Weatherlight
2 Tezzeret's Gambit
3 Wildfire
Planeswalker - 6
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
2 Nature's Claim
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Lux Cannon
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Spellskite
1 Defense Grid
1 Damping Sphere
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Welding Jar
Modern
xWBAffinityBWx
BBBVampiresBBB
BURGDice FactoryGRUB
Check out the Primer!
4x Astral cornucopia
4x Coretapper
2x Sword of the Meek
2x Thopter Foundry
4x Board the Weatherlight
3x Tazzeret, Agent of Bolas
2x Tezzeret the seeker
3x voltaic key
3x Wildfire
3x Tezzeret's Gambit
3x Surge Node
3x Mox opal
2x Magistrate's scepter
1x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Glimmervoid
4x Spire of Industry
3x Darksteel citadel
2x Ghost Quarter
3x Inventors' Fair
1x Academy Ruins
1x Forest
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I've been working on a Magistrate's Scepter deck for the past 4 months and decided to check out how other people were using Paradox Engine on this site to see if i could find any other cool interactions, win cons, or consistency that i was lacking.
4 Coretapper
3 Master Transmuter
Artifacts(26):
3 Mox Opal
4 Astral Cornucopia
4 Everflowing Chalice
3 Springleaf Drum
3 Throne of Geth
4 Magistrate's Scepter
3 Paradox Engine
2 Myr Turbine
3 Tezzeret's Gambit
3 Whir of Invention
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
Land(18):
2 Encroaching Wastes
1 Field of Ruin
3 Gemstone Caverns
2 Dreadship Reef
1 Academy Ruins
1 Inventor's Fair
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 Island
1 Swamp
Stirring seems like it could be a good early game dig piece and i love that Wildfire is in your list. how do they work for you? Is Wildfire there to buy time in case you don't have infinite turns set up by turn 3/4?
If you resolve it in t3 or 4 you will mostly be so far ahead that most opponents just scoop after that
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
3 Astral Cornucopia
4 Everflowing Chalice
4 Mind Stone
2 Mox Opal
//Charge
4 Coretapper
4 Surge Node
//Dig and Draw
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Temple Bell
3 Tezzeret's Gambit
//Combo
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Hive Mind
1 Isochron Scepter
4 Paradox Engine
1 Prototype Portal
4 Slaughter Pact
1 Academy Ruins
4 Field of Ruin
2 Forest
4 Inventors' Fair
1 Island
2 Tolaria West
3 Yavimaya Coast
1 Atarka's Command
1 Biovisionary
1 Djinn Illuminatus
1 Glittering Wish
1 Invoke the Firemind
4 Manamorphose
4 Natural State
1 Spitting Image
1 Stitch in Time
And if anyone is interested, here is a list of combos this deck can pull out, sideboard considered. The fun here is that all cards other than Natural State in the sideboard are tutor-able with Glittering Wish, and with Djinn Illuminatus, we can put all the combos in hand.
Infinite Draw, the basic combo: Paradox Engine + 2 Temple Bell + enough artifact Mana. 2 Temple Bell gives practical infinite draw at 2/3 hit chance per draw. When in doubt, make it 3 along the way.
Infinite Mana: the basic combo + Elixir of Immortality or Paradox Engine + Isochron Scepter + Slaughter Pact + valid target + enough artifact Mana. In fact the basic combo produces practically infinite mana.
Infinite Heal: the basic combo + Elixir of Immortality. Good against infinite damage decks, otherwise just to deter aggro to surrender.
Infinite Damage: Sideboard. Infinite Mana + Invoke the Firemind. And also Isochron Scepter + Atarka's Command in special situations. This is good when we swap 4 Natural State for 4 Slaughter Pact to deal with Stony Silence and the like.
Infinite Token: the basic combo + Elixir of Immortality + Prototype Portal + Coretapper. Again practically infinite without Elixir of Immortality. Primarily for Slaughter Pact + Isochron Scepter to kill and force a lose with Hive Mind, otherwise another mild deterrence for aggro to surrender.
Infinite Kill: Paradox Engine + Slaughter Pact + Isochron Scepter + 2 artifact Mana. This is one of our win con. Also good against non-haste token and aggro.
Infinite Turn: Sideboard. Djinn Illuminatus + Stitch in Time + Infinite Mana + Elixir of Immortality. Usually one more turn is enough, but we can completely lock some weird decks out and beat down with our infinite tokens or Djinn Illuminatus itself.
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Inventors' Fair
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Yavimaya Coast
1 Spire of Industry
// Core
4 Coretapper
4 Astral Cornucopia
4 Everflowing Chalice
4 Surge Node
4 Mox Opal
4 Voltaic Key
// Draw and Tutor
4 Whir of Invention
4 Ancient Stirrings
// Combo
4 Paradox Engine
3 Otherworld Atlas
1 Temple Bell
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
1 Approach of the Second Sun
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
As Ratwohl #217 pointed out this combo has potential of turn 2 kill. Unfortunately I have not encountered such draw. My goldfish draws yield 1/3 turn 4 kill, 1/3 turn 5 kill and 1/3 fizzle, which is acceptable for casual. For competitive, maybe something like 1/2, 1/4, 1/4, with some lucky turn 3.
So any suggestions as to improve the speed or opening consistency?
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
The reason I want to use a dice factory engine is because I want to use clock of omens as an infinite engine for thopter sword, which requires a mana rock, so I thought why not maximize how good your mana rocks actually are.
I have included a 2/2 split in my list that i am currently playing.
About the numbers of everflowing chalice: people tend to play 3 but i still run the full 4.
I don't know if clock of omens is really needed because Filigree Sages exist. With Cornucopia charged to 4 counters makes infinite mana as well, but it is still a creature.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I threw a list together and went 4-1 in a mtgo friendly league. The deck was way more swingy than a typical thopter sword list, ramping quickly, but having a harder time being consistent and assembling stuff. I really wanted another mana sink (1 inventors fair was always nice), or another thing to put charge counters on for value, other than mana rocks.
Because thopter sword was my only combo, coretapper played a little poorly, whereas turn 1 surge node and rock was always sweet. I think I either need to up the number of payoffs, or cut the number of charge counter producers. Either way, deck was very fun to pilot.
I often use coretapper as a tempo play: play him, sac him, ramp a rock for 2 and have more mana than the opponent the next turn to power out stuff.
I don't know if you joined the discord yet, but look it up and look at all the archetypes there and get inspired by them.
I, personally, am a player that wants to have a solution for most situations in the game. So that is why i also play planeswalkers as additional threats and for the case if stony silence is on the board.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Did you know Memnarch lives in the Darksteel Citadel and created the Myr as mindless servitors?
I arrived at Citanul for the 2nd half of the Paradox combo and Memnarch / Ballista for the win condition after serious thought and careful logical reasoning. I claim there are no better options for the "all in on Paradox combo" version of the deck.
Fabricate could be Whir in a control heavy meta; countered Fabricate sucks. A single Filigree Sages isn't bad, but doesn't jive with Everflowing Chalice. The deck can make all five colours so the sideboard is highly tunable. Too bad Stony Silence is lights out.
4 Mox Opal
4 Astral Cornucopia
4 Everflowing Chalice
4 Surge Node
4 Coretapper
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Fabricate
3 Paradox Engine
2 Citanul Flute
[Win]
1 Memnarch
2 Walking Ballista
2 Spellskite
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
2 Voltaic Key
[Land]
1 Academy Ruins
4 Inventors' Fair
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Spire of Industry
3 Yavimaya Coast
1 Island
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Damping Sphere
2 Blood Moon
1 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Torpor Orb
2 Welding Jar
2 Rest In Peace
Some random thoughts:
Merchant's Dockhand, Hangarback Walker, Steel Overseer, Scrap Trawler, Arcbound Reclaimer, Master Transmuter, Myrsmith
And a deck inspired by the new approach.
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Inventors' Fair
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Yavimaya Coast
1 Spire of Industry
// Creatures
4 Coretapper
1 Cogwork Assembler
1 Merchant's Dockhand
1 Arcbound Reclaimer
1 Steel Overseer
4 Astral Cornucopia
4 Everflowing Chalice
4 Surge Node
4 Mox Opal
2 Voltaic Key
3 Paradox Engine
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Fabricate
2 Citanul Flute
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Coretapper
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Lodestone Golem
1 Platinum Angel
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Astral Cornucopia
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Everflowing Chalice
2 Lightning Greaves
4 Mox Opal
4 Surge Node
4 Darksteel Citadel
8 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Inventors' Fair
4 Damping Sphere
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Nature's Claim
1 Walking Ballista
2 Dismember
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Spellskite
2 Welding Jar
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy