I feel the same way about death cloud. If I could run wildfire in its place, I would. The mana doesn't allow it though and death cloud has a few other benefits as well. All in all, I think this version is the most versatile and consistent compared to the others I have built and against the meta.
The Eldrazi version is my second favorite but is too fair imo. It is good against all the decks the sultai version is and vice versa. That said, I only own the sultai list in paper.
Thank you for the report.
I thought that death cloud
Isn't that good. I also wanted to test Tezzeret because he is so damn good. In my list I could basically play 5 color and would love to try him, maybe instead of the main blood moons.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I think both Death Cloud and Wildfire/Force have their benefits, but I think that Death Cloud is the harder hitting spell unless they go wide. Opponents can try to play around WF/DF in game 2 or 3 by holding hand hand, but DC will just rip it out.
Maybe I'll try a super greedy version replacing the clouds, but right now I'm still learning the deck.
I heavily recommend Tezzeret, being an alt win com through 5/5s or the drain has been super relevant.
Redbaron, how do you sideboard? Most of the time I found myself taking out clouds and an atlas, and sometimes some Tezzerets. Is this right? My thought process was bring out DC when it will be too slow and Tezzerets for Wurmcoils and Atlas as a flex.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
Death cloud is the easiest card for them to disrupt because of the restrictive BBB cost. Unless I need the removal such in the case with knightfall or something, I will side it out.
Its more that we can include it and it fills a role. It can sometimes win games on its own or help push us over the threshold to victory game 1.
Game 1 is unknown so dc is our proactive card that rips apart almost every deck. Having the full set of atlas helps us be faster game 1 against an unknown opponent when turns are very close.
@kingavarice
How do you like the two tilapia west? What do you transmute for? Does the tapped aspect of it come in to play often?
How do you like the split tezz?
Do you find this way of combining out harder than if you can draw into more gas? What if any of your key pieces get destroyed?
The sideboard feels a little forced because of the limited number of slots in the deck. Having less pieces means you need to have the jars and side them a lot I am guessing.
The side seems fine and the deck looks good against weenie decks and ramp. What worries me with a build like this is a weaker game against combo, midrange, or control.
Discard and counterspells look like they would tear you up.
Took the same list through a competitive league this time, and went 4-1 as well. Really, really starting to like this deck. All I have are super short notes since I wasn't expecting to do well.
Round 1: Eldrazi Tron.
I combo'd off game 1 after screwing up his Chalice to allow me to throw down the rocks ending with a Death Cloud for 19. Game 2 I tried to screw with things again so I could cast my spells, but he had double Ratchet Bomb to wipe my board clean. Game 3 was equally gross where he just continually get drawing the answer to whatever I had. T3 Wurmcoil wasn't good enough compared to Ballista + Collar. It was gross.
0-1
Round 2: BW Eldrazi Taxes
This deck seems to be super popular online, and I haven't dropped a match to the deck so I'm all for it.
Game 1 was pretty uneventful, I just did the standard combo game-plan while he had no idea what was going on, and scooped when I went for Death Cloud on 11 (Note this didn't kill him and brought me to 3).
Game 2 he was able to stick Thalia and a few Tidehollows and Thought-Knots which caused me to be 1 mana short from going off when presented with lethal.
Game 3 was similar to game 1, and while he did have a Thalia out, she didn't do too much all by herself other than be annoying. In the end I just hit enough artifacts for Tezz, proliferated, and then won.
1-1
Round 2: BW Eldrazi Taxes
All I will say about Game 1, is this was Turn5:
Game 2 was a super strong and rampy hand, but he had Stony Silence on turn 2 and I was "stone" dead to it. I tried to float a few turns to hit a colored land and a Nature's Claim but it didn't happen.
Game 3 he kept an all colorless hand and a vial, and didn't do anything for a few turns. This let me go crazy and I went to down to 4 cards left in my library before I realized I did not have an Elixir OR any more Gambit's to ult Tezzeret. After realizing this I played 2 Wurmcoils, a Leyline, and Tezzeret with a +1 before passing. My opponent cast a Relic Warder to take a Wurmcoil and then discarded something like 25 cards to hand size. Taking the Wurmcoil didn't matter as I immediately just -4'd Tezz and won the game.
2-1
Round 4: Burn
Game 1 I was able to lead off with Inventor's Fair and 3 artifacts (Key, Opal, Chalice) and that bought me a lot of time. Eventually we got to the point where I was at 12 and was about to go off. Fortunately he only had 3 land, and no combination of Burn spells kills me, so I had no problem letting him draw 30+ cards. I eventually won with Tezzeret. I expected him to bolt Tezz in response to Gambit but instead he Skull Cracked in response to the ultimate. Okay.
Game 2 I was ready to go ballistic but he had a turn 2 Eidolon and that just stopped everything. Eidolon had totally slipped my mind since recent decks I've seen have switched to Shrine, and I was not prepared.
Game 3 I mulled to 6 with a Leyline and some fast ramp. He snap kept his 7, which I assumed meant he had Eidolon, but instead he was all spell heavy and weak to Leyline. I just got out a bunch of mana and played the value game until I hit some threats. He did Smash to Smithereens my Atlas so I couldn't combo. Two Wurmcoils were all I had left over, but I guess two 6/6 Lifelinkers will get you there.
3-1
Round 5: Abzan Taxes
Game 1 was the same as every other taxes match up. He's prepared to stop me from doing normal deck things, but we don't play that game. I combo off and end it with Tezzeret for time's sake.
Game 2 I kept a hand that wasn't dead to Stony, but didn't do much else if it did land. He mulled to 5 and had the Stony along with Noble and Mirran Crusader. The Crusader was putting in beats and right when I finally got the Decay for the Stony, he played another one. Fortunately I drew Tezzeret, and he was starting to flood, which allowed me to just start pumping out 5/5's. Even though there was still a Stony in play, I played Paradox Engine so I could give my dude's pseudo vigilance which really helped me win I think. If I just had to sit on defense (I was at 2, gaining 1 a turn through Fair) I think he would have taken it. Eventually I drew a Citadel and once that became a 5/5 the game was over.
4-1
Again, no tweaks to the deck yet. I feel like Eldrazi Tron is rough, but definitely win-able, he just happened to hit everything he needed. The only change I am currently thinking of is swapping the basic Swamp to a basic Forest as the decks that land Stony are also likely to Path / GQ the fun lands, and being able to ensure the green for the Nature's Claim seems big.
Otherwise, I still think I'm in love with this deck and am going to start putting it together in paper. Fortunately, everything other than the Moxes are cheap!
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
Tolaria West is a split card. About 10% of the time, it's your land drop for turn 2 or turn 3. I tend to tutor for Inventor's Fair, but I've also used it to grab Astral Cornucopia after the one I had in play was destroyed and once I got a Walking Ballista to take out enough creatures to buy a turn I needed. It is versatile, but it is definitely one of the weaker cards in the 60 in both of those uses and sometimes, they get boarded out. I wonder if it might be better to just play one Inventors's Fair and one basic land in their place.
I actually haven't played at all with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. I just swapped Ugin for it with the introduction of the new planeswalker rule. I like Tezzeret the Seeker quite a bit, its ability to grab the Ensnaring Bridge the turn it is cast has won a lot of games.
Most typically, I will lock people out with Ensnaring Bridge and Wildfires and then I go for the combo all in one turn once I have enough mana. If you use Planar Portal, you only need one copy of each.
I definitely do think it is tuned a bit for weenies, which is what the majority of my local metagame is on. I am curious about what cards you think are good in the other matchups. I think I have decent tech for the combo decks. Chalice on 2 is good against Storm, Pithing Needle names Lightning Storm against Ad Nauseaum & Devoted Druid against Counters Company & Knight of the Reliquary against Knightfall and also Witchbane Orb stops a lot of win conditions. Midrange is close, Wildfire is definitely the key card in those matchups. Control is definitely rough.
For sideboard slots, I am not sure about the 3-2 split of Nature's Claim/Abrupt Decay. I actually just took that from your list, Redbaron, I'm at 3-1 right now, with the last slot being a Nihil Spellbomb, but I don't mind having another answer to Stony Silence. I know some of you guys play Blood Moon, I feel like that could definitely slot in as well but I would probably want 3 copies and I'm not sure what I would cut.
I see it as a more reactive card when compared to atlas, ancient stirrings, or tezzeret.
The deck really doesn't like picking artifacts back up that we spent time adding counters to. I think it would be good against other reactive decks being an instant, but I don't think it would really provide more gas than the current options. Especially sitting at a cmc of 4.
That said, I havent tested it. I could see it being nice in a list like kings that is more toolbox-combo.
I have not. I think Death Cloud is much better in this spot. Even though it hits us, it hits the opponent much harder than Torment of Hailfire would and doesn't give them any options about it. Hitting lands is one of the biggest things that helps us because it buys us more time if we are durdling. Our ramp usually puts us ahead in mana very quickly so losing lands is a non-issue.
Unless we can cast it for lethal, I don't think the opponent would want to sacrifice much of their things anyways.
I've been trying a 2 Death Cloud 1 Torment of Hailfire split, and it's been alright. Torment has so far only served as a fireball effect when I'm at a lower life total. I haven't yet run into a situation where I can try to stabilize with it, like I have multiple times with Death Cloud.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
it's simply the best 1 mana filter in modern. But after playing games after games i started to recognize a real problem everyone should notice: u can only find colorless spells
Maybe don't play so many colored spells then?
There are few people on the planet more disposed to try to jam Wildfire at every available opportunity - I still try to make Modern Annex Wildfire work, it really doesn't, I am sad... I just keep looking at these lists with stuff like Wildfire and Gearhulk, and I'm wondering why you are diluting what is effectively a very efficient linear combo deck with random 5 and 6 drops.
Traditionally successful Wildfire lists leverage Artifact acceleration to break the symmetry of Wildfire, enabling it to come down faster and to be easier to recover from yourself. The 'problem' with this in Modern is that the Artifact acceleration is both relatively 'fair' - no Grim Monoliths-into-Thran Dynamos here! - and awfully slow. In effect, what you are trying to do is to use the underlying Dice-Factory engine to power out a relatively mediocre Midrange plan - Subpar Covetous and Wildfire - when you could just win the game on the spot with the same amount of effort and different cards.
Modern is increasingly a format about having the most explosive gameplan and executing through the least amount of effective disruption. Affinity and Storm do not care about your Turn 4 Wildfire. Eldrazi Tron is ecstatic that you are blowing up the world and leaving behind Reality Smashers. Look at Regional results from large areas like Atlanta, or Chicago; CoCo and Humans are the fairest decks you can expect to play against, everything else just runs hot and fast.
So I haven't read the thread, but don't you just get shut down by Stony, or by EE or Ratchet Bomb?
Yes. The attractive part of the deck (for me) is that you are effectively Affinity but you don't have to interact with the Combat Step. Stony Silence is a beating, you have to SB for it. Honestly, EE and Bomb are less of one for me, because they are MUCH less prevalent in SBs across modern. But it's really no different to something like Tormods Crypt to any reanimation strategy, or Aethersworn Cannonist to Storm.
I have to disagree with you ellomdian.
Wildfire works and that really good for me so far! Like you say, it is a combo list, but it has so many angles to attack your opponent. I also play Blood moon main, and have the combo and also Ugin. I played against Eldrazi tron and they are far from ecstatic when I blow up the world with wildfire and mostly leave them with mostly nothing. Because I also play ghost quarter just for the reason to take out problem lands. Even if there is a smasher on the board I also have Ensnaring Bridge to shut smasher down. I have answers for so many things in this deck and wildfire is just 1 of them. You have to realise, that Wildfire on T3 or T4 often leads enemies to scoop. It isn't by far a mediocre midrange plan, it is a threat for them locking them out of the game when it resolves along to all the other things we do.
Sorry but that's my opinion to it.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
well, this is not only very polemical but also pretty thoughtlessly: in which world can u compare Covetous dragon ( i guess thats the card u a reffering)with cards like walking ballista,etc? i dont see it sry. And obvsly is the card wildfire against some amount of match ups not that great: i wrote sthg about it, but u also may not have seen it respectively just didnt care
Coveteous Dragon was the original win condition for the Artifact-accelerated Wildfire deck when the card was first printed. Kai won Worlds in '99 with it. Your deck is trying to accelerate out a Wildfire using Artifact Mana, and winning with a creature that is unlikely to die because of it.
I'm not trying to suggest that your ideas are bad, or that your deck is bad. I'm asking if winning with a synergy-card like Wildfire is that much better than just winning without it.
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Modern: Dominium Eminens
Legacy: UB Tezz (Check out My Primer at TheSource)
Vinitage: Oath
@ellomdian
The reason covetous dragon was such a beast is because he was an evasive beater who came down early in an environment where flying was actually good and he survived the Wildfire. Imo, the real thing that the modern worlds wildfire deck lacks is Mishra's helix. There is no card at all that can replace it.
Dice factory is the spiritual successor of the deck but not the same deck. We have a lot of options in the way that we build the deck. Dice factory is simply the best artifact ramp shell that happens to interact very well with wildfire. We lack the control aspects of Kai's list and we can't get them back. We are just best suited to do most the things that Kai's list was trying to do. I can see why you say covetous is a sub par finisher, but you need to think that compared with the rest of the deck and the meta that it was in, the dragon was good and fast.
In blba's deck, I agree wildfire almost seems out of place. Running only a couple of copies, I'm not sure how often you can cast it quickly enough for it to be too impactful against bad matches. I think maybe a Lux Cannon and another Ensnaring Bridge would probably do him better than the wildfires.
Also, I'd say the mana accel is anything but fair. It has about the same upper end mana wise, it just takes more cards to pull off. Being able to get more than 2 or 3 out of a rock can be huge when facing artifact destruction.
The deck above has 62 cards, I can't remember right now what is the extra card but I'll update tonight. The real deck is only 61.
I enjoyed running the heavier combo version and being able to go off almost at any turn, but I also felt that sometimes I drew too many of the same pieces and got stuck. Similarly, even though it made some easy targets to shave off for sideboard games in grindier match-ups, the existence of too many pieces still hurt sometimes.
In exchange I added Whirs and some bullets, so I still had roughly the same ability to grab the combo pieces, but now I could also just tutor for specifics to the situation.
I took the idea for Witchbane Orb main from Kanister who plays it with Whir in Lantern, and he mentioned how much better his game 1s are against stuff like Valakut and Burn since they don't have an answer game 1. I would like a Bridge, but I haven't been able to acquire one yet.
Batterskull is for a beat stick, but I generally try to avoid it unless necessary so opponent sides out removal and i can bring in Wurms and Heralds.
Nissa is a fun of. I haven't played her yet but for optimisation she should probably be cut.
I'm having second thoughts on Cloud and Stirrings now. Cloud did win a game and can still be devastating, but triple black means I must hit rainbow lands and or Astral, which isn't always a guarantee in the early turns where I may need it. Something like Cylonic Rift works early, but does lack the ability to strip the hand and lands.
Stirrings has an increased chance to whiff, but it is also one of the best turn 1 plays to setup for a strong turn 2. I haven't yet had it whiff but I have there be effectively no choice when revealing. Maybe a shave down to 3, but the card is still too good.
Cage is because I ran into a lot of Dredge online and I really sucked in that matchup. Dredging 4-5 or more a turn makes it easy for them to dig to Ancient Grudge to disrupt me from going off or ramping, and Cage helps along with atoppinv theie creaturss. Its alao extra Storm and Company hate.
Onto the games:
Round 1: Naya Zoo
Game 1 he does a Burn impression only playing Goblin Guide and Nacatl along with Atarka's Command. The draw was pretty slow and I was able to just naturally go off with Atlas and Engine, ending eith a Tezzeret ultimate.
Game 2 I see a Burning Tree Emissary but I still think he's on a weird Burn list. I keep drawing land while he hits for mediocre beats and I eventually die.
Game 3 was dream land. I was able to turn 2 Batterskull followed by a turn 3 Padeem, followed by a turn 4 Wurmcoil. He had 8 artifact hate carda sided I'm but was stuck on one land and never got there.
1-0
Round 2: UW Tron
Game 1 was pretty standard midrange beat down. He had a Gifts heavy hand and was planning to go for it but I whirred for Witchbane Orb in response. I played my Batterskull and just went to Town with it. He had removal but not Counters to stop it from coming back over and over.
Game 2: This was super grindy and I blanked a Gifts with an Orb in response again. It was going a similar route as game 1 but he eventually had a Negate for the Skull. We both kept drawing land but his make more mana and eventually Emrakul came down.
Game 3: We were running low on time and this was going to be super grindy, but I was blessed with a T2 Tezzeret hand. I just kept making constant 5/5s and he ran out of soon removal before dying. Highlight of this game was once again Whirring for Witchbane in response to Gifts.
2-0
Round 3: Affinity
Game 1: kept a "slow" hand and was punished by double overseer and double signal pest. If my Chalice was a Cornucopia, I could have double whirred for Atlas and Engine on my last turn and stole the game.
Game 2: He kept a hand reliant on a Plating but I was able to Whir for my Needle before he could attach and bought myself many turns. I had an Engine and was about to Inventor's Fair for Atlas when he had to leave and scooped the match. EZPZ
3-0
Round 4: Grixis Death Shadow (Split but played out)
Game 1: He was playing Standard last week and hadn't seen what the deck did yet, so he did typical Shadow things getting down to 6 and beating face. Eventually he made the mistake of tapping out, and while I was at 6 as well, upkeep Fair put me to 7. I death clouded for 6.
Game 2: Since he was expecting a spell based combo he was sitting on Denials and was not at all prepared for Wurmcoil. I had a Ruins and Chalice on 7, so it was going to be a very rough fight for him. Eventually he trades a Shadow for a Wurmcoil but then I slam Engine 2 and he scoops.
4-0
Nothing super crazy but I do enjoy the flexibility of Whir without going all in on a Tezzerator plan.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
Nice finish. Whir of invention is really strong and always helps with it's toolbox in each game 1. Ensnaring Bridge is a very good addition but keep in mind that Bridge shuts wurmcoil engine and Batterskull down in some situations. So you have to think when to play what.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
It's more just being able to have the option to grab it if necessary. Fortunately, there's still old school combing off and Tezz ult that can be done behind the bridge so it wouldn't be too terrible.
It'd probably come out the games where I bring in Coil though. Herald at least still does things even when locked behind the bridge.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
Too bad it doesn't transform until the beginning of the end step. I think this provides an alternate avenue of ramp more so than supplementing the current engine. Could definitely be of use in a non-black and or toolbox style of list I think. Maybe even in the big mana RUG style list that plays Karn and Ugin. I don't think it'd be spectacular in the combo list.
Definitely agree. I've never needed extra mana in combo, only spells to trigger engine (Drew 6 lands in a row and whiffed once. That was miserable). Witb Ballistas, Whirs, and other big stuff I think it's desirable to help achieve more consistency. Makes throwing out Chalice and Cornucopias for 0 less painful too.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
I think I have only ever had 1 game where I started the combo and fizzled. But I don't try to combo out until I have 3 counters on the Atlas. 6 lands in a row is pretty unlucky in a deck that only runs 17 typically. And you figure you had 1-3 lands in play already. I'd say it's very unlucky. The thing I don't like about ballista is that we often don't have enough creatures and generally want to blank enemy removal game 1. It can be great and versatile, a monster in some matches, but I don't think its for me. At least not in any of my current lists save maybe the Eldrazi one. Haven't tested it in there, it'd probably be quite good.
I do like that list you put together. I also just realized you got interested in the deck from the reddit thread way back when. Glad you found the deck. I need to make some videos with my Sultai list.
The Eldrazi version is my second favorite but is too fair imo. It is good against all the decks the sultai version is and vice versa. That said, I only own the sultai list in paper.
Modern
xWBAffinityBWx
BBBVampiresBBB
BURGDice FactoryGRUB
Check out the Primer!
I thought that death cloud
Isn't that good. I also wanted to test Tezzeret because he is so damn good. In my list I could basically play 5 color and would love to try him, maybe instead of the main blood moons.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Maybe I'll try a super greedy version replacing the clouds, but right now I'm still learning the deck.
I heavily recommend Tezzeret, being an alt win com through 5/5s or the drain has been super relevant.
Redbaron, how do you sideboard? Most of the time I found myself taking out clouds and an atlas, and sometimes some Tezzerets. Is this right? My thought process was bring out DC when it will be too slow and Tezzerets for Wurmcoils and Atlas as a flex.
Its more that we can include it and it fills a role. It can sometimes win games on its own or help push us over the threshold to victory game 1.
Game 1 is unknown so dc is our proactive card that rips apart almost every deck. Having the full set of atlas helps us be faster game 1 against an unknown opponent when turns are very close.
Modern
xWBAffinityBWx
BBBVampiresBBB
BURGDice FactoryGRUB
Check out the Primer!
How do you like the two tilapia west? What do you transmute for? Does the tapped aspect of it come in to play often?
How do you like the split tezz?
Do you find this way of combining out harder than if you can draw into more gas? What if any of your key pieces get destroyed?
The sideboard feels a little forced because of the limited number of slots in the deck. Having less pieces means you need to have the jars and side them a lot I am guessing.
The side seems fine and the deck looks good against weenie decks and ramp. What worries me with a build like this is a weaker game against combo, midrange, or control.
Discard and counterspells look like they would tear you up.
Modern
xWBAffinityBWx
BBBVampiresBBB
BURGDice FactoryGRUB
Check out the Primer!
Round 1: Eldrazi Tron.
I combo'd off game 1 after screwing up his Chalice to allow me to throw down the rocks ending with a Death Cloud for 19. Game 2 I tried to screw with things again so I could cast my spells, but he had double Ratchet Bomb to wipe my board clean. Game 3 was equally gross where he just continually get drawing the answer to whatever I had. T3 Wurmcoil wasn't good enough compared to Ballista + Collar. It was gross.
0-1
Round 2: BW Eldrazi Taxes
This deck seems to be super popular online, and I haven't dropped a match to the deck so I'm all for it.
Game 1 was pretty uneventful, I just did the standard combo game-plan while he had no idea what was going on, and scooped when I went for Death Cloud on 11 (Note this didn't kill him and brought me to 3).
Game 2 he was able to stick Thalia and a few Tidehollows and Thought-Knots which caused me to be 1 mana short from going off when presented with lethal.
Game 3 was similar to game 1, and while he did have a Thalia out, she didn't do too much all by herself other than be annoying. In the end I just hit enough artifacts for Tezz, proliferated, and then won.
1-1
Round 2: BW Eldrazi Taxes
All I will say about Game 1, is this was Turn5:
Game 3 he kept an all colorless hand and a vial, and didn't do anything for a few turns. This let me go crazy and I went to down to 4 cards left in my library before I realized I did not have an Elixir OR any more Gambit's to ult Tezzeret. After realizing this I played 2 Wurmcoils, a Leyline, and Tezzeret with a +1 before passing. My opponent cast a Relic Warder to take a Wurmcoil and then discarded something like 25 cards to hand size. Taking the Wurmcoil didn't matter as I immediately just -4'd Tezz and won the game.
2-1
Round 4: Burn
Game 1 I was able to lead off with Inventor's Fair and 3 artifacts (Key, Opal, Chalice) and that bought me a lot of time. Eventually we got to the point where I was at 12 and was about to go off. Fortunately he only had 3 land, and no combination of Burn spells kills me, so I had no problem letting him draw 30+ cards. I eventually won with Tezzeret. I expected him to bolt Tezz in response to Gambit but instead he Skull Cracked in response to the ultimate. Okay.
Game 2 I was ready to go ballistic but he had a turn 2 Eidolon and that just stopped everything. Eidolon had totally slipped my mind since recent decks I've seen have switched to Shrine, and I was not prepared.
Game 3 I mulled to 6 with a Leyline and some fast ramp. He snap kept his 7, which I assumed meant he had Eidolon, but instead he was all spell heavy and weak to Leyline. I just got out a bunch of mana and played the value game until I hit some threats. He did Smash to Smithereens my Atlas so I couldn't combo. Two Wurmcoils were all I had left over, but I guess two 6/6 Lifelinkers will get you there.
3-1
Round 5: Abzan Taxes
Game 1 was the same as every other taxes match up. He's prepared to stop me from doing normal deck things, but we don't play that game. I combo off and end it with Tezzeret for time's sake.
Game 2 I kept a hand that wasn't dead to Stony, but didn't do much else if it did land. He mulled to 5 and had the Stony along with Noble and Mirran Crusader. The Crusader was putting in beats and right when I finally got the Decay for the Stony, he played another one. Fortunately I drew Tezzeret, and he was starting to flood, which allowed me to just start pumping out 5/5's. Even though there was still a Stony in play, I played Paradox Engine so I could give my dude's pseudo vigilance which really helped me win I think. If I just had to sit on defense (I was at 2, gaining 1 a turn through Fair) I think he would have taken it. Eventually I drew a Citadel and once that became a 5/5 the game was over.
4-1
Again, no tweaks to the deck yet. I feel like Eldrazi Tron is rough, but definitely win-able, he just happened to hit everything he needed. The only change I am currently thinking of is swapping the basic Swamp to a basic Forest as the decks that land Stony are also likely to Path / GQ the fun lands, and being able to ensure the green for the Nature's Claim seems big.
Otherwise, I still think I'm in love with this deck and am going to start putting it together in paper. Fortunately, everything other than the Moxes are cheap!
I actually haven't played at all with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. I just swapped Ugin for it with the introduction of the new planeswalker rule. I like Tezzeret the Seeker quite a bit, its ability to grab the Ensnaring Bridge the turn it is cast has won a lot of games.
Most typically, I will lock people out with Ensnaring Bridge and Wildfires and then I go for the combo all in one turn once I have enough mana. If you use Planar Portal, you only need one copy of each.
I definitely do think it is tuned a bit for weenies, which is what the majority of my local metagame is on. I am curious about what cards you think are good in the other matchups. I think I have decent tech for the combo decks. Chalice on 2 is good against Storm, Pithing Needle names Lightning Storm against Ad Nauseaum & Devoted Druid against Counters Company & Knight of the Reliquary against Knightfall and also Witchbane Orb stops a lot of win conditions. Midrange is close, Wildfire is definitely the key card in those matchups. Control is definitely rough.
For sideboard slots, I am not sure about the 3-2 split of Nature's Claim/Abrupt Decay. I actually just took that from your list, Redbaron, I'm at 3-1 right now, with the last slot being a Nihil Spellbomb, but I don't mind having another answer to Stony Silence. I know some of you guys play Blood Moon, I feel like that could definitely slot in as well but I would probably want 3 copies and I'm not sure what I would cut.
Judge Tower: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/80859
The deck really doesn't like picking artifacts back up that we spent time adding counters to. I think it would be good against other reactive decks being an instant, but I don't think it would really provide more gas than the current options. Especially sitting at a cmc of 4.
That said, I havent tested it. I could see it being nice in a list like kings that is more toolbox-combo.
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Unless we can cast it for lethal, I don't think the opponent would want to sacrifice much of their things anyways.
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EE and Ratchet bomb are able to played around similar to how graveyard decks do Relic.
I was Fracturing Gusted for 10 of my artifacts a few days back but still recovered.
Maybe don't play so many colored spells then?
There are few people on the planet more disposed to try to jam Wildfire at every available opportunity - I still try to make Modern Annex Wildfire work, it really doesn't, I am sad... I just keep looking at these lists with stuff like Wildfire and Gearhulk, and I'm wondering why you are diluting what is effectively a very efficient linear combo deck with random 5 and 6 drops.
Traditionally successful Wildfire lists leverage Artifact acceleration to break the symmetry of Wildfire, enabling it to come down faster and to be easier to recover from yourself. The 'problem' with this in Modern is that the Artifact acceleration is both relatively 'fair' - no Grim Monoliths-into-Thran Dynamos here! - and awfully slow. In effect, what you are trying to do is to use the underlying Dice-Factory engine to power out a relatively mediocre Midrange plan - Subpar Covetous and Wildfire - when you could just win the game on the spot with the same amount of effort and different cards.
Modern is increasingly a format about having the most explosive gameplan and executing through the least amount of effective disruption. Affinity and Storm do not care about your Turn 4 Wildfire. Eldrazi Tron is ecstatic that you are blowing up the world and leaving behind Reality Smashers. Look at Regional results from large areas like Atlanta, or Chicago; CoCo and Humans are the fairest decks you can expect to play against, everything else just runs hot and fast.
Yes. The attractive part of the deck (for me) is that you are effectively Affinity but you don't have to interact with the Combat Step. Stony Silence is a beating, you have to SB for it. Honestly, EE and Bomb are less of one for me, because they are MUCH less prevalent in SBs across modern. But it's really no different to something like Tormods Crypt to any reanimation strategy, or Aethersworn Cannonist to Storm.
Modern: Dominium Eminens
Legacy: UB Tezz (Check out My Primer at TheSource)
Vinitage: Oath
I used to judge alot.
Wildfire works and that really good for me so far! Like you say, it is a combo list, but it has so many angles to attack your opponent. I also play Blood moon main, and have the combo and also Ugin. I played against Eldrazi tron and they are far from ecstatic when I blow up the world with wildfire and mostly leave them with mostly nothing. Because I also play ghost quarter just for the reason to take out problem lands. Even if there is a smasher on the board I also have Ensnaring Bridge to shut smasher down. I have answers for so many things in this deck and wildfire is just 1 of them. You have to realise, that Wildfire on T3 or T4 often leads enemies to scoop. It isn't by far a mediocre midrange plan, it is a threat for them locking them out of the game when it resolves along to all the other things we do.
Sorry but that's my opinion to it.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Coveteous Dragon was the original win condition for the Artifact-accelerated Wildfire deck when the card was first printed. Kai won Worlds in '99 with it. Your deck is trying to accelerate out a Wildfire using Artifact Mana, and winning with a creature that is unlikely to die because of it.
I'm not trying to suggest that your ideas are bad, or that your deck is bad. I'm asking if winning with a synergy-card like Wildfire is that much better than just winning without it.
Modern: Dominium Eminens
Legacy: UB Tezz (Check out My Primer at TheSource)
Vinitage: Oath
I used to judge alot.
The reason covetous dragon was such a beast is because he was an evasive beater who came down early in an environment where flying was actually good and he survived the Wildfire. Imo, the real thing that the modern worlds wildfire deck lacks is Mishra's helix. There is no card at all that can replace it.
Dice factory is the spiritual successor of the deck but not the same deck. We have a lot of options in the way that we build the deck. Dice factory is simply the best artifact ramp shell that happens to interact very well with wildfire. We lack the control aspects of Kai's list and we can't get them back. We are just best suited to do most the things that Kai's list was trying to do. I can see why you say covetous is a sub par finisher, but you need to think that compared with the rest of the deck and the meta that it was in, the dragon was good and fast.
In blba's deck, I agree wildfire almost seems out of place. Running only a couple of copies, I'm not sure how often you can cast it quickly enough for it to be too impactful against bad matches. I think maybe a Lux Cannon and another Ensnaring Bridge would probably do him better than the wildfires.
Also, I'd say the mana accel is anything but fair. It has about the same upper end mana wise, it just takes more cards to pull off. Being able to get more than 2 or 3 out of a rock can be huge when facing artifact destruction.
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1 Academy Ruins
2 Botanical Sanctum
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 Glimmervoid
2 Inventors' Fair
4 Spire of Industry
1 Forest
Artifacts 24
4 Mox Opal
4 Everflowing Chalice
4 Astral Cornucopia
4 Surge Node
2 Voltaic Key
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Pithing Needle
1 Otherworld Atlas
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Batterskull
1 Paradox Engine
1 Expedition Map
4 Coretapper
Spells 12
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Tezzeret's Gambit
2 Death Cloud
3 Whir of Invention
Planeswalkers 4
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Nissa, Steward of Elements
2 Nature's Claim
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Sun Droplet
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
2 Herald of Anguish
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Grafdigger's Cage
Some notes on the deck itself:
The deck above has 62 cards, I can't remember right now what is the extra card but I'll update tonight. The real deck is only 61.
I enjoyed running the heavier combo version and being able to go off almost at any turn, but I also felt that sometimes I drew too many of the same pieces and got stuck. Similarly, even though it made some easy targets to shave off for sideboard games in grindier match-ups, the existence of too many pieces still hurt sometimes.
In exchange I added Whirs and some bullets, so I still had roughly the same ability to grab the combo pieces, but now I could also just tutor for specifics to the situation.
I took the idea for Witchbane Orb main from Kanister who plays it with Whir in Lantern, and he mentioned how much better his game 1s are against stuff like Valakut and Burn since they don't have an answer game 1. I would like a Bridge, but I haven't been able to acquire one yet.
Batterskull is for a beat stick, but I generally try to avoid it unless necessary so opponent sides out removal and i can bring in Wurms and Heralds.
Nissa is a fun of. I haven't played her yet but for optimisation she should probably be cut.
I'm having second thoughts on Cloud and Stirrings now. Cloud did win a game and can still be devastating, but triple black means I must hit rainbow lands and or Astral, which isn't always a guarantee in the early turns where I may need it. Something like Cylonic Rift works early, but does lack the ability to strip the hand and lands.
Stirrings has an increased chance to whiff, but it is also one of the best turn 1 plays to setup for a strong turn 2. I haven't yet had it whiff but I have there be effectively no choice when revealing. Maybe a shave down to 3, but the card is still too good.
Cage is because I ran into a lot of Dredge online and I really sucked in that matchup. Dredging 4-5 or more a turn makes it easy for them to dig to Ancient Grudge to disrupt me from going off or ramping, and Cage helps along with atoppinv theie creaturss. Its alao extra Storm and Company hate.
Onto the games:
Round 1: Naya Zoo
Game 1 he does a Burn impression only playing Goblin Guide and Nacatl along with Atarka's Command. The draw was pretty slow and I was able to just naturally go off with Atlas and Engine, ending eith a Tezzeret ultimate.
Game 2 I see a Burning Tree Emissary but I still think he's on a weird Burn list. I keep drawing land while he hits for mediocre beats and I eventually die.
Game 3 was dream land. I was able to turn 2 Batterskull followed by a turn 3 Padeem, followed by a turn 4 Wurmcoil. He had 8 artifact hate carda sided I'm but was stuck on one land and never got there.
1-0
Round 2: UW Tron
Game 1 was pretty standard midrange beat down. He had a Gifts heavy hand and was planning to go for it but I whirred for Witchbane Orb in response. I played my Batterskull and just went to Town with it. He had removal but not Counters to stop it from coming back over and over.
Game 2: This was super grindy and I blanked a Gifts with an Orb in response again. It was going a similar route as game 1 but he eventually had a Negate for the Skull. We both kept drawing land but his make more mana and eventually Emrakul came down.
Game 3: We were running low on time and this was going to be super grindy, but I was blessed with a T2 Tezzeret hand. I just kept making constant 5/5s and he ran out of soon removal before dying. Highlight of this game was once again Whirring for Witchbane in response to Gifts.
2-0
Round 3: Affinity
Game 1: kept a "slow" hand and was punished by double overseer and double signal pest. If my Chalice was a Cornucopia, I could have double whirred for Atlas and Engine on my last turn and stole the game.
Game 2: He kept a hand reliant on a Plating but I was able to Whir for my Needle before he could attach and bought myself many turns. I had an Engine and was about to Inventor's Fair for Atlas when he had to leave and scooped the match. EZPZ
3-0
Round 4: Grixis Death Shadow (Split but played out)
Game 1: He was playing Standard last week and hadn't seen what the deck did yet, so he did typical Shadow things getting down to 6 and beating face. Eventually he made the mistake of tapping out, and while I was at 6 as well, upkeep Fair put me to 7. I death clouded for 6.
Game 2: Since he was expecting a spell based combo he was sitting on Denials and was not at all prepared for Wurmcoil. I had a Ruins and Chalice on 7, so it was going to be a very rough fight for him. Eventually he trades a Shadow for a Wurmcoil but then I slam Engine 2 and he scoops.
4-0
Nothing super crazy but I do enjoy the flexibility of Whir without going all in on a Tezzerator plan.
Whir of invention is really strong and always helps with it's toolbox in each game 1. Ensnaring Bridge is a very good addition but keep in mind that Bridge shuts wurmcoil engine and Batterskull down in some situations. So you have to think when to play what.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
It'd probably come out the games where I bring in Coil though. Herald at least still does things even when locked behind the bridge.
Modern
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I do like that list you put together. I also just realized you got interested in the deck from the reddit thread way back when. Glad you found the deck. I need to make some videos with my Sultai list.
Modern
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BURGDice FactoryGRUB
Check out the Primer!