@SpiderSpace
If I could go back and prepare for another big tournament like Regionals, I would first ask myself the following questions:
Am I happy with 4 Dismembers, or do I want some maindeck insurance against either Blood Moon or Planeswalkers?
Do I want a little bit more hedge against Humans?
Do I want a little bit more hedge against Mardu Pyromancer? If so, would that be by attacking their graveyard or presenting threats or better-aligned removal?
Do I want a little bit more hedge in grindy matchups like Jund?
At this moment, the answers to those questions are.. yes (4 Dismembers main), no (though any sideboard changes that incidentally improve the Humans matchup is welcome), yes and yes (the reason being that this deck is very good at fighting unfair decks with "unfair" lock pieces, it's very weak to fair midrange strategies).
In terms of exact changes, I kind of feel like I want to jam either a Blade Splicer or Matter Reshaper somewhere in the 75 (probably at the expense of either one of the small or big Thalia's or the 4th Dismember). As for the sideboard, like you say, I can't see any direct one or two changes to the sideboard that really satisfy me. I think as is, the sideboard accomplishes everything it needs to, but with very little wiggle-room. Though I do think much more drastic and impactful changes can be made to the board if we can even just somewhat rely on getting WW mana, but I haven't tried enough to really know that as of yet.
And I know this isn't the answer you might be looking for, but my mind does wander off about the possibilities of RW or maybe even GW (since GW can take advantage of 4x Horizon Canopy better). RW being able to use Anger of the Gods (which adds removal to the board and alleviates the Honor Guard slots) is a big boon, and Nahiri might be a good option as a single card that provides both grind and removal for problem enchantments.
Other cards (not mentioned in recent posts) that are on my short-list to try are Spellskite and Timely Reinforcements.
Will continue posting as I test more and/or have more thoughts ^^.
@2imu
If you haven't had a chance, we had many conversations about all of that earlier in the thread (maybe starting around page 3-4?).
Summary:
GW kind of sucks. It does not bring very much to the table.
RW can be very good. Stresses the mana more, but Anger, Nahiri, and Eldrazi Obligator are very good, and a couple of other spells are okay as well. IMO, Obligator was especially good when Death's Shadow was bigger, as it could auto-win games out of nowhere.
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
@redtwister: I'm mostly just stopping by. I really enjoy Dominaria limited atm and don't play a ton of Modern. I also sold all of my Canopies so I can't play the deck in this current iteration.
@2imu: sweet report! and good job on the finish. As redtwister mentioned there has been quite some discussion on splashing, strategy vs. go wide decks, strategy vs. midrange decks and other topics that might interest you.
@all: Interesting that conventional Tron has become a worse MU. It used to be quite good. I think of all the SB options you mentioned for this MU SpiderSpace, I am the most intrigued by Dampening Sphere. It is good against both Tron and Hollow One and some others like Storm. Mindcensor seems a bit worse than it used to, since Valakut and Chord decks are not played very often nowadays. Though Hollow One seems quite good already, so we probably don't even want additional cards for this MU to no overboard.
As for the removal I'm not that high on dec in stone since it is always a two for one against you. Now obviously we don't have many options, as discussed many times before. Seal Away is a newer addition that might be worth a consideration but is probably just worse than other cards including dec. Settle the Wreckage also seems quite good but WW is tough.
Was this streamed? If so, I'll have to check it out on your channel instead of asking you for a report here.
For those interested, I've been playing the RW variant of this deck through 13 MTGO Friendly Leagues now going infinite with a 43-22 record (.662 win rate) with current build below:
Biggest difference I've noticed is how resilient the RW version is vs Aggro-based decks and has basically not lost yet to Affinity, Merfolk, Elves, D&T, Death's Shadow, Eldrazi Aggro thanks to the power of Anger of the Gods and Engineered Explosives. Haven't played Humans yet which is really odd but I'm curious how that will work out.
I did not stream it because I was double queued in the standard MOCS event and it was just too much to manage for me to stream it too.
I did not write up a tournament report directly afterward so some of my memory of the event is a little hazy, but I can try. I don't remember specifics for each match, but I'll add comments on anything I do recall with the how the match went.
Going threw my games I saw the following;
R1 vs mardu pyro 2-0.
R2 vs G Tron 2-1.
R3 vs WU control 2-0.
I remember here that G1 he kept a 1 lander and I locked him out pretty fast. I only saw a plains and a field of ruin so I actually thought he was on taxes. In retrospect I should have thought of WU control, but I boarded for a creature MU, but apparently wasn't punished for it.
R4 vs humans 2-1.
Game one he ran me over and g2 and 3 I found timely tocatli+ worship.
R5 vs Affinity 2-1.
R6 vs Bogles 0-2
I remember having a good tax hand, but no acceleration and he had t1 dude into spells and I was pretty dead right away.
G2 I mulled to 2 before seeing a single land.
R7 vs humans 2-0.
I recall this particular round was one of my oddest rounds vs humans. Both games I was on the draw with gemstone caverns, chalice of the void, and dismember. G1 I dismembered his hierarch and then locked him out with chalice on 1 (I guess he had 1 drops and no second land) Notably his land wasn't cavern in either game. G2 was the same thing except he started with vial and I drew my singleton boarded in sorcerous spyglass resulting in t2 spyglassing his vial and then t2 dismembering his hierarch and simianing into chalice for the same thing.
TOP 8
Quarterfinals vs G tron 2-1.
G1 I flooded after a t1 chalice and lost.
Got there g2 and got lucky g3 where he missed his 5th land for ostone before dying to my pressure.
Finals vs Grixis Death's Shadow 2-1.
G1 I tried to get him with a fast arbtier strip mine on t2, but he had removal into t4 double shadow and I lost.
G2 I lead on t1 chalice and that was pretty much it. I recall I GQed his R source and at the end of the game I saw his hand where he had multiple kolaghan's command stuck in hand.
G3 was very very close. He tried to race me with some snappies and it ended up with a death's shadow + 2x snappies vs double thalias and a tks in a board-stall. Finally he swung in and I got the DS in combat with a dismember. He draws a young pizzy and I swing in forcing the snappies to block. At this point he has no cards in hand, 1 young pyromancer and nothing else with me at 1. I play an arbiter to block and cross my fingers he doesn't draw removal. He draws a dismember and got so excited that he used it in his drawstep to kill TKS when he could have lethaled me. He sat there for a good minute realizing his punt as he didn't draw a second removal spell, or at least not one he could cast and was dead on the crackback.
Hey there, Just started playing this deck in the last week and have had a lot of success. Most notably going 4-1-1 in a local 1k modern even for top 8, winning the quarters and splitting the semis. Deck feels powerful and I had a lot of games where my opponents didn't quite understand what I was up to which probably helped quite a bit.
I play storm on mtgo, but wanted something different, so I saw Spiderspace’s list and decided to build it (minus horizon canopy an slightly different sideboard). Took it through one comp league and managed a 4-1, losing to humans. Decided to run it back again, only played one match so far but won (against humans).
Nice tidbit was my opponent taunting me in chat for misclicking and making a bad attack (which I was able to salvage with displacer anyway)...meanwhile he never realized he could cast his 1 drops through my Chalice on 1 with his cavern, lol. I don’t even interact with anyone through chat on mtgo since it never ends well, but I almost considered it in this case.
The deck feels good, especially against combo. I actually had goblins just concede on the spot when I played Chalice on 1 in both games against them. There are other times it feels very clunky though, and I don’t think there’s anything you can really do about it. I’m spoiled after playing a million cantrips in storm, but I feel like with Infect and KCI on the rise, this deck is positioned pretty well.
Decided to take this deck through my first Modern Challenge today. Ended 5-3 for 39th place out of 132 (apparently I had terrible breakers). I want to blame my losses on poor draws from me and lucky draws from my opponent, as I can't think of too many misplays (and the misplays I made, I ended up winning those games somehow.) My matchups were:
Round 1) W - Ad Naus (DaSneakyPete)
Round 2) W - Mardu Pyro
Round 3) L - G Tron - This came down to game 3 where he had one turn to hit tron, and he did
Round 4) L - Living End - Really awkward game 3 where I lost a game to hard cast fatties when I had a RIP on board and could come up with no pressure
Round 5) W - Cheerios
Round 6) L - UR Control/Titi
Round 7) W - Hollow one
Round 8) W - UW Miracles
Deck felt good, a couple awkward draws and games where it came right down to the wire and my opponents had it. Oh well! I ran a single damping sphere side, think I'll make it 2.
Decided to take this deck through my first Modern Challenge today. Ended 5-3 for 39th place out of 132 (apparently I had terrible breakers). I want to blame my losses on poor draws from me and lucky draws from my opponent, as I can't think of too many misplays (and the misplays I made, I ended up winning those games somehow.) My matchups were:
Round 1) W - Ad Naus (DaSneakyPete)
Round 2) W - Mardu Pyro
Round 3) L - G Tron - This came down to game 3 where he had one turn to hit tron, and he did
Round 4) L - Living End - Really awkward game 3 where I lost a game to hard cast fatties when I had a RIP on board and could come up with no pressure
Round 5) W - Cheerios
Round 6) L - UR Control/Titi
Round 7) W - Hollow one
Round 8) W - UW Miracles
Deck felt good, a couple awkward draws and games where it came right down to the wire and my opponents had it. Oh well! I ran a single damping sphere side, think I'll make it 2.
Nice results! Do you think you could share how you sideboarded in your matchups?
Ad naus - Some number of story silence. I also ran a SB Rule of Law, which did actual nothing when they beat me with it out game 2 by EOT ad naus and then Lightning Storm on their turn. Chalice is pretty clutch in this matchup as well, being able to throw it down on 1 shuts off Angel’s Grace and Spoils, on 0 turns off Pact, and 2 has a lot of targets, but notably Echoing truth if you’ve already got one out on 1 or 2. Keeping them off mana seems to be key.
Mardu - Chalice on 1 can ruin their day if they keep a hand banking on looting/hand disruption. Rest In Peace comes in, as well as cast out/ixalan’s binding/celestial purge for blood moon.
Tron - Damping Sphere, Stony Silence. I should have had Spyglass in my SB, would come on here for sure. I think a lot of people who may not be familiar with playing the deck don’t realize how badly stony screws them over. Hands with Thalia/Arbiter are prioritized over the Eldrazi.
Living End - Rest In Peace, Damping Sphere/Rule of Law. Of course, you also need pressure, or else you’ll just get 5 drops beating your face in. Another point is that none of your hate is really safe in that Beast Within has the potential to put them right back in it, which is why I go for multiple hate pieces. In my case, my few creatures were killed by evoked shriekmaws...don’t think it warrants Honor Guard coming in, but I could be wrong.
Cheerios - You need some form of interaction to not just die turn 2/3, whether it’s chalice, Thalia, or a kill spell. Theoretically this should be good, bringing in Rule of Law/Damping Sphere, Stony Silence, but sometimes they just have it and you don’t. A chalice on 0 hurts them, a chalice on 0 and 2 is game over.
UR titi/Control - Honestly, I don’t know. Thalia is great but can eat a bolt, Chalice on 1 is fantastic, but even their countered 1-drop spells trigger TiTi. I think this was the only guy to actually finish ahead of me in standings, somewhere in top 32. Prioritize dismember/Thalia, hopefully drop chalice on 1, get there. SB is lacking here, though Rule of Law and Sphere should help.
Hollow one - Chalice on 1 is great. Rest In Peace for bloodghast/angler/Phoenix and sphere/Rule of Law for stifling hollow ones. Celestial purge is also great as a catch all, possibly cast out if you’re concerned about blood moon.
Miracles - play like a taxes deck. Prioritize Thalia/arbiter/ ghost quarter, Chalice on 1 turns off their cantrips/path. I think Rest In Peace is too low impact to bring in, as you’re only possibly shutting off Snapcaster recursion if that list even runs him. Spyglass would do work. I didn’t actually have Karn, but would have brought him in here (or anywhere grindy). Game 2 I played turn 1 Chalice with a gemstone caverns out, turn 2 Arbiter - > ghost quarter...that was basically it.
So this was more of a tournament report than SB guide, but hopefully it helped. Also typed on mobile, forgive the typos.
I think I have tired of Powder Eldrazi Stompy (PES) and I want to come back to Death and Staxes (DnS). While I was very much enjoying PES at times (Powder does what it does very well at times and the deck could be both oppressive and explosive), colorless in Modern that isn't doing stupid Tron stuff feels less than spectacular more often than I would like. I think I dropped 1 out of about 15 matches versus Burn with DnS and more than half with PES. Why? No Thalia. My 70% win rate versus Robots went to 40% Why? No Stony. Wanna fight Spirit tokens? Displacer FTW. I traded in resiliency and control for aggression and it turns out I am way more into being passive-aggressive.
I miss white sideboard cards and Displacer and Thalia 1 and Thalia 2. And I miss my little lion-bear.
SpideSpace's list is a great starting point, so there we will begin and see how it goes.
@SpiderSpace
Speaking of which, what is your current list? Caught a few vids, curious where you are at re: lands and I wanted to here more about why you like Karn so much against mid-range.
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Hi all!
I've been a bit MIA here it seems. Sorry about that guys.
Without Further ado, here's my tournament report from GP Las Vegas.
I took my Thalia Stompy list to GP Vegas and got 61st! This was my first day 2 and I'm pretty pleased with the deck choice and how I played. I'd take that 75 and try it again if I could. If I could have dodged a little more variance (this is where having any buys might have come in), I think I could have top8ed. I think my list was very well positioned.
Here's the short version of how I did:
4 humans 3-1
3 Jeskai 2-1
2 Mardu 1-1
2 jund 2-0
1 infect 1-0
1 UW miracles 1-0
1 G/B Tron 1-0
1 merfolk tie (this should have been a win and while I missed a couple things in our last game, I think this was a paper thing that happened because I'm used to mtgo).
For a more in depth report, you can check out the notes I took on my phone as I went through the tournament. I had notes for every MU, but it seems some of what I had was lost because I exceeded the character count in the memo I saved things. I tried to go back through and fill in what I could. Also, I tried to include how I boarded, but also missed some of that stuff. Turns out going day 2 kinda took it out of me . Sorry about that. I hope you find it useful.
Day 1:
R1 vs Breanna on Jeskai control
G1 I mull to 6 on the play with a simian t1 arbiter. I then draw Thalia and had copter into displacer to get there.
G2 I board out 3 dismember for karn, spyglass, and cast out. Mull to 6 with a gemstone. I go t1 Thalia into t2 arbiter+gq. She paths arbiter the following turn. I draw arbiter and then go cavern into tks. The last turn she tries to snap path smasher and I say trigger and point at it. She says ok and goes to block without discarding not realizing what happened. I lethal her.
2-0
R2 vs Isaiah on Jeskai
G1 my opponent likes to be fancy with snap and block and then play the card after combat. He does this with arbiter and lets the bolt sit there. I tks for the blowout. The same thing happens with path and then I chalice into tks.
G2 I kept a clunker with gemstone. I need it up not lotus petalling it and he resolves teferi where I drawn in cards. The boarding is the same except g3 I sb out a gemstone for a rip. G3 is close where we both run low on cards. I smasher him to 3. He taps out for snap wrath. I have copter out and no cards in hand, but top another smasher.
2-1
R3 Fadel on Jund
I'm on the draw both games. I believe my opponent mulls to 6 both times too. Oh and I luckstoned both times ;). G1 I luckstone and he takes my thicc Thalia leaving displacer, simian, and dismember with some lands (the cavern exiled my second displacer) he follows it up with a bolt, but then his draw was pretty anemic and mine was full of squidbois.
G2 I bring in 2 rip 1 karn 1 cast out for 4 chalices. I run out t1 arbiter which he kills. I go t2 simian, karn. I proceed to then run away with the game while my opponent stumbled.
2-0
R4 vs Brian? On Mardu pyro
G1 I'm on the play with 2x TGoT, tks, temple, and some lands. He t1 thoughtseizes and has to take tks. I drew pretty well, but ultimately the taxes got me there.
I go -2 copter, -1 displacer, -1 tks, -1 dismember and-1? for cast out, karn, 2 rips, and 2 Dec in stone. On the play the? Become gemstone.
G2 he had a lili last hope plus souls draw and gets my awkward start despite my luckstone.
G3 I keep a slight clunker, but OP mulls to 5. He manages to deal with 2x smashers. He almost grinds me out, but after some canopies I rip tks to take his last card, looting. Tks went the distance.
Note: OP says he should only have moon vs me on the play because it's slow
R5 vs Elliot on WU miracles control
G1 t1 chalice stomp.
G2 we have a grindy match and he barely gets there with collonade.
G3 another crazy one. I Dec in stoned his entreat angels and get out karn which gets d sphered. I eventually get there with a tks and Thalia.
Out 3 dismember and in cast out, karn, and spyglass. G3 out 1 gemstones in 1 Dec in stone.
2-1
R6 vs D...? On merfolk
He runs me over g1 and I do that to him g2.
G3 I resolve a worship and a chalice on 2. He kept playing so I thought he had another out. The board was insane and I apparently missed multiple ways I could have won.
I brought in nearly the whole board -stony and rip.
We draw. 1-1-1.
R7 vs V... on Jeskai.
I mull to 5 and then a weak 6 G1 and 2 and lose.
R8 last shot at a win and in vs Megan on humans
G1 I'm on the play with a D&T kinda hand. She goes t1 hierarch into t2 mantis rider. I have no removal and scoop showing only Thalia.
The sb comes in and I mull to worship. I barely live resolving it with only smasher. She scoops. G3 I go to 5 with 2x dismember and triple land with a gemstone. I get it and decapitate her dork and then rider. I proceed to draw tocatli into displacer into worship. She names worship with mage and I draw Dec in stone. I got lucky here, but I got there! I boarded in 3 tocatli, 2 worship, 2 Dec in stone, cast out, and spyglass. On the play it's gemstone, 4 Thalia 4 arbiter. On the draw it's +1gemstone -1 chalice. I might have gone -1 more chalice for a Thalia, but I can't recall.
2-1
Note: I boarded pretty much the same vs merfolk.
That a 6-1-1 record. Yeaaah boi. I should be 7-1 with the tie punts, but at the end of the day I did it and I'm super stoked.
Day 2:
R1 vs Bobby on humans.
He runs me over g1. I bring in the board and mull to a 6 with removal and displacer and decide to keep. I almost stabilized, but never drew a hate effect I needed over 7 turns and died.
0-2
R2 vs Cody on infect
G1 I mull to 5 and go t1 chalice. He eventually finds a skite and agent. I find thalias and smasher. He echoing truths chalice, but forgets about Thalia to hit me to 9 poison before dying on the crackback. G2 I draw a 2nd dismember to go t1 take out the work t2 take out the agent into chalice on 1.
2-0
R3 vs Patrick on humans
G1 his start is a little slow and I fight with copter and displacer, but lose. G2 I kill with copter while I hide behind worship.
G3 I keep 7 with 2 plains, Worship, dismember, displacer, tks, and smasher. I rip tocatli for t2 tocatli t3 worship. He was tilted because he didn't see tocatli and the worship answered the booter.
2-1
R4 vs Taylor on Jund
I mull to 6 and get junded out g1.
G2 I keep a slow drazi heavy hand and he keeps a pretty slow out. I cast out lili and tks into tks +rip into smasher to win.
G3 I keep a 2x canopy temple hand with thicc Thalia, dismember, and simian. He ioks the Thalia, but then I draw tks and he has only bbe which hits bolt. I draw more drazi and win.
2-1
R5 vs Tyler on Mardu pyro.
I play g1, but he tears my hands to shreds while I flood. I try to race with smasher with tks om blocks vs pyro and friends. If I had hit 1 more thing I think I woulda had it.
G2 I go t1 arbiter and get him. He accidentally cracks a fetch and loses from there.
G3 was nuts. I kept a double simian 2x chalice, gq, cast put, and Dec in stone hand. My opponent takes the Dec in stone so I chalice him. We both miss land drops until he finds young pizzy who still gets tokens off 1 drops even if they're countered. I'm forced to gq myself to land a big Thalia and an arbiter. We still are stuck on 2 mana each (I drew 1 more after the gq] until he draws a terminate to finish me off.
1-2
Note: Mardu might be my closest MU in the meta. I'm not really scared at all of any of the other top decks. This one might be a coin flip.
R6 vs Ophel? On GB tron
G1 I mull to 5, but have a good start. He has natty tron so I lose. G2 and 3 I mull to 6, but have a hate piece t1 into displacer t2 hate piece t3 for ggs. -2 copter -1 gemstone(on the play)/1 cavern of souls on the draw -3 dismember for 2 Dec in stone 3 stony 1 spyglass.
2-1
Note: for whatever reason any of the splash tron lists feel much easier than mono G.
R7 vs?? On humans
G1 we both have suboptimal starts and it is a bit of a fight, but he gets there. G2 I keep a displacer removal 6 and rip a tocatli at the right time and eventually kill with tks while protecting myself with displacer.
G3 I keep a 7 with dismember, lands, simian, tocatli, and some drazi (hello there displacer). He goes t2 mage name tocatli and I dismember it into t2 tocatli. He's clearly unhappy. I rip a worship for land simian worship. Next turn it's displacer and I take the game over. I ended up drawing 2nd displacer and tocatli eventually. Also spyglass on izzet staticaster and chalice on 1 for whatever bizzarro stuff he might have. He refuses to scoop saying he has an answer. So I eventually draw tks and keep up 1 displacer activation and mull him out. What an end to the GP!
Takeaway: Overall I was very pleased with the deck's performance. If I were to go to that tournament again right now, I'd be quite happy with that 75. If I could guarantee I'd face exactly what I did, I'd probably try to make room for another Karn, scion of Urza in the board since I really didn't see much tron and did see a lot of midrange and control, but my understanding was that it was all over day 2, so I think I made the right call with sorcerous spyglass. In fact, I like the effect enough that I've been trying 1x phyrexian revoker MD over 1x dismember on mtgo and it feels right for the meta.
@redtwister Baby Karn is a difficult walker to kill and can take over the game from multiple angles while also being castable under a blood moon. It's everything I want in a SB anti control/midrange slot.
I think I need some help with timing for Smugglers Copter. On a turn 2 with no acceleration from turn 1, how do you prioritize casting Thalia/Arbiter vs Copter?
Will be the first to admit I've made a lot of mistakes here but I'm still not sure how exactly to think through it. I can generally tell between Arbiter and Thalia which tax is more important but when I have one or 2 of those vs Copter, I tend to overthink.
Any general guidelines or rules of thumb you guys can offer?
A friend of mine and I picked this deck up a week ago and have been knocking around with it. I have gone 3-0-1 at two different local tournaments and I have tweaked the deck slightly here.
I dropped the Copters, in favor of two mainboard Karn's, removed a Sheffet Dunes and Displacer and added two Mind Stone. I found that the biggest issue for me was the lack of card draw later in the game. I get that the Copters let you cycle, but I think Karn + Mind Stone, gives you the chance to get large Karn-structs out (as you usually have chalice in play already) and my meta has a ton of Midrange and control. Finally, I added an Avacyn to the sideboard for mirror like matches and Humans. I found the flash ability great and when I wanted her to flip, it basically acted as a board wipe.
Anyways - this deck is awesome. Love to get peoples take on if they have any ideas on how we can tweak this further.
TJW - welcome to the thread. I love the idea of mainboard Karn. I didn't mess with the Mind Stones, but I did take out a Smuggler's Copter in favor of 1 Karn. As you saw in my previous thread, I feel like I kept making misplays/bad decisions from simply not sequencing my 2 drops correctly. Going down to a singleton Copter and a singleton Karn feels right.
I have 2 5-0 trophies now in the new Friendly League in session after grinding a bunch and getting zero trophies in the last session - even though Karn has only been useful once, I'll take that as a good sign for now.
In terms of other ideas for tweaking, I basically play Leagues with the standard WW or also a RW version below:
It's about 59% win rate right now while the WW is closer to 60%. Not sure if any is better than the other - the RW gives you access to Anger of the Gods which is an excellent sweeper for most match-ups that are faster than us.
Hey folks! I've been watching SpiderSpace's streams recently and have absolutely fallen in love with the deck. I tried it for myself last night in an MTGO comp league and went 4-1, just one game away from the 5-0! Being an incredibly inexperienced pilot, I think that just goes to show how powerful the deck can be. So, naturally, I decided to record with the deck myself. I'm not as familiar with piloting and sideboarding as some of you may be, but I enjoyed giving it another spin in a comp league.
I recorded 5 matches total. The match-ups were: Tron, Storm, Grixis Reveler, Amulet Titan, Grixis Death's Shadow. If you only care about watching a specific match-up, you can look in the description of the video to jump straight to it. If you have any questions/criticisms/suggestions, I'd love to hear them! Deck is great, thanks SpiderSpace for bringing some awareness to it.
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Check out some Magic Gameplay and Commentary videos here, including Modern Grixis, Jeskai, and Esper videos as well as some Standard and Drafts too: My YouTube Channel!
Picked deck up and tried a friendly league on MTGO today. 5-0 and to boot opened a Brightling. I have no experience with this deck but I was impressed with how resilient it was long game. The 1 card that felt off when I drew it was Copter. I played against: 2 Hollow One Decks, Elves, Devoted Druid Combo and Amulet Titan.
Hey guys,
I posted this question a while back and didn't get any answers, but how do you guys sequence your 2 drops between Thalia/Leonin Arbiter/Smuggler's Copter/Chalice of the Void? Specifically with Copter. I feel confident about my play decisions when it's between Thalia/Leonin Arbiter/Chalice. However, I feel like I make a lot of bad decisions when I'm trying to decide between Copter + some combination of the other 3.
How do you guys generally think through a hand with no T1 acceleration and Copter + 1 or some combination of the other 3 2-drops (treating Chalice as a 2 drop obviously)? I know others have mentioned how awkward Copter generally feels and I would agree, but I also think a large part of it is because I never really feel confident in how/when to play it in this deck. I've actually switched to 1x Copter and 1x Matter Reshaper just to avoid my bad decision-making lol :-\
@bmchu168
Are you the beatdown or not? That seems to me to be the question. I will say, I assume you did not have a turn 1 option to play one of these, because IMO turn 1 Chalice is always the correct choice Game 1.
Any game where you don't know the answer, aka Game 1 against an unknown opponent, IMO it is always right to assume you want to be disruptive. From there it depends on your mana, what cards you have in hand, and your third land. Therefore, Thalia, Chalice or Arbiter will almost always come down before Copter.
Games 2 and 3:
- if you are the beatdown, Copter on Turn 2 unless you absolutely think you need Chalice. That way Copter attacks turn 3, no matter what you do.
- if you are the control deck, Copter comes down when you have exhausted the control options you began with.
That's how I think of it, and then of course variations based on your hand (Temple, Temple, TKS is almost always the right turn 2 play, regardless of Thalia, Arbiter, etc.)
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I meant to reply with my gratitude earlier but I appreciate the thoughtful response. However, it does beg the question though of how useful the copter is. In game 1 we both agree a chalice, arbiter, and thalia should all come before copter. Even in game 2 if are not the beatdowm, they might still have priority to be played over copter which just goes back to the question of whether there are better cards to be played instead. I've moved to a copter and a reshaper although just got another 5-0 on mtgo with 2 reshapers instead so I'll keep toggling with it.
Redtwister, didn't you say you play the serum powder Eldrazi stompy deck? How does that compare to this? I've pretty much got all of the cards for that Deck so was thinking of trying that Deck out for fun.
I don't know, I think it depends on what you think Copter is there for. IMHO, it is a card that plays into the mid to long game by making creatures with summoning sickness into a 3/3 flying filter machine, and in the absence of draw/filter aside from Canopy, that by itself seems good enough.
I do play the Jordan Boisvert Powder version sometimes. I went for a while where it was all I played and I realized a few things in the process.
1. The Powder deck is an aggro deck, first and foremost, that primarily wants to lay down some disruption in order to get aggressive without much opposition. Now, as a big aggro or stompy deck, it does play out like a mid-range ramp beatdown deck in many ways, except that fast mana does everything we are used to it doing. I did manage a turn 3 kill with it once, but it is very capable of long, grindy matches.
2. Powder has nothing like the creature control elements of this deck. Thalia 1& 2 plus Arbiter completely change how you play out games and whether or not you need to race in any given match.
Take the question about Copter for example. In Powder, I think Copter turn 2 is nearly always the right choice, except for Chalice on 1. Why? Because almost every subsequent drop fuels their aggression and the rest of their disruption (except TKS) comes from their manabase.
3. Sideboard quality definitely favors us, but mulligan power favors Powder. If you want the strongest answers to problems, play this. If you want some things that get stuff out of the way so you can crush your opponent, and you want the occasional insane mull 7 twice, win turn 4, play the Powder deck.
4. I still don't really enjoy being an aggro player. I mean, I can win with G Stompy in Pauper, and it is a deck I am actually good with, but I like my B Control deck better even though it is probably not as good. Or I like DnT in Legacy. Therefore, I think I play this deck better than the Powder deck.
Conclusion:
The decks are not the same and do not play out the same, despite sharing a large number of cards. Powder is an aggro deck with Chalice, an aggression-centric deck with some prison elements or the equivalent of Eldrazi Stompy in Legacy. Our deck is closer to something like actual DnT, which is more or less a tempo prison deck, with creatures that clearly interfere with our opponent's tempo, mana development and card advantage, as we grind out a little life from them each turn.
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Is anyone still playing this deck? I'm still hovering at 61% win rate with this deck, but the bad match-ups have gotten worse and the good match-ups are about the same as they've always been. Hardened Scales/Modular is an auto-lose and Humans/Merfolk/Elves/Spirits/CoCo decks are all just auto-losses for me at this point and unfortunately these are all Tier 1 decks now (or should be if they aren't at this point).
I did like Spiderspace's tech of mainboarding a Phyrexian Revoker. I've put that in place of the 2nd Smuggler's Copter and kept the 4x Dismembers.
Anyone else playing this deck still? Any interesting tech or sideboard cards you guys have been experimenting with?
A lot of the meta is very hostile to this deck. Scales is a beating and KCI is really tough too. Humans, Spirits, et al Tribal are sort of winnable if you take away their ETB or hit Worship, but otherwise it feels like we lose. Hollow One and RB Vengevine are still really touch and go.
I moved to Spirits and even there I am not entirely happy and I don''t want to play any of the above decks, so...
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
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If I could go back and prepare for another big tournament like Regionals, I would first ask myself the following questions:
At this moment, the answers to those questions are.. yes (4 Dismembers main), no (though any sideboard changes that incidentally improve the Humans matchup is welcome), yes and yes (the reason being that this deck is very good at fighting unfair decks with "unfair" lock pieces, it's very weak to fair midrange strategies).
In terms of exact changes, I kind of feel like I want to jam either a Blade Splicer or Matter Reshaper somewhere in the 75 (probably at the expense of either one of the small or big Thalia's or the 4th Dismember). As for the sideboard, like you say, I can't see any direct one or two changes to the sideboard that really satisfy me. I think as is, the sideboard accomplishes everything it needs to, but with very little wiggle-room. Though I do think much more drastic and impactful changes can be made to the board if we can even just somewhat rely on getting WW mana, but I haven't tried enough to really know that as of yet.
And I know this isn't the answer you might be looking for, but my mind does wander off about the possibilities of RW or maybe even GW (since GW can take advantage of 4x Horizon Canopy better). RW being able to use Anger of the Gods (which adds removal to the board and alleviates the Honor Guard slots) is a big boon, and Nahiri might be a good option as a single card that provides both grind and removal for problem enchantments.
Other cards (not mentioned in recent posts) that are on my short-list to try are Spellskite and Timely Reinforcements.
Will continue posting as I test more and/or have more thoughts ^^.
If you haven't had a chance, we had many conversations about all of that earlier in the thread (maybe starting around page 3-4?).
Summary:
GW kind of sucks. It does not bring very much to the table.
RW can be very good. Stresses the mana more, but Anger, Nahiri, and Eldrazi Obligator are very good, and a couple of other spells are okay as well. IMO, Obligator was especially good when Death's Shadow was bigger, as it could auto-win games out of nowhere.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
@redtwister: I'm mostly just stopping by. I really enjoy Dominaria limited atm and don't play a ton of Modern. I also sold all of my Canopies so I can't play the deck in this current iteration.
@2imu: sweet report! and good job on the finish. As redtwister mentioned there has been quite some discussion on splashing, strategy vs. go wide decks, strategy vs. midrange decks and other topics that might interest you.
@all: Interesting that conventional Tron has become a worse MU. It used to be quite good. I think of all the SB options you mentioned for this MU SpiderSpace, I am the most intrigued by Dampening Sphere. It is good against both Tron and Hollow One and some others like Storm. Mindcensor seems a bit worse than it used to, since Valakut and Chord decks are not played very often nowadays. Though Hollow One seems quite good already, so we probably don't even want additional cards for this MU to no overboard.
As for the removal I'm not that high on dec in stone since it is always a two for one against you. Now obviously we don't have many options, as discussed many times before. Seal Away is a newer addition that might be worth a consideration but is probably just worse than other cards including dec. Settle the Wreckage also seems quite good but WW is tough.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-challenge-2018-06-10
Was this streamed? If so, I'll have to check it out on your channel instead of asking you for a report here.
For those interested, I've been playing the RW variant of this deck through 13 MTGO Friendly Leagues now going infinite with a 43-22 record (.662 win rate) with current build below:
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/eldrazi-staxes-rw/
Biggest difference I've noticed is how resilient the RW version is vs Aggro-based decks and has basically not lost yet to Affinity, Merfolk, Elves, D&T, Death's Shadow, Eldrazi Aggro thanks to the power of Anger of the Gods and Engineered Explosives. Haven't played Humans yet which is really odd but I'm curious how that will work out.
I did not stream it because I was double queued in the standard MOCS event and it was just too much to manage for me to stream it too.
I did not write up a tournament report directly afterward so some of my memory of the event is a little hazy, but I can try. I don't remember specifics for each match, but I'll add comments on anything I do recall with the how the match went.
Going threw my games I saw the following;
R1 vs mardu pyro 2-0.
R2 vs G Tron 2-1.
R3 vs WU control 2-0.
I remember here that G1 he kept a 1 lander and I locked him out pretty fast. I only saw a plains and a field of ruin so I actually thought he was on taxes. In retrospect I should have thought of WU control, but I boarded for a creature MU, but apparently wasn't punished for it.
R4 vs humans 2-1.
Game one he ran me over and g2 and 3 I found timely tocatli+ worship.
R5 vs Affinity 2-1.
R6 vs Bogles 0-2
I remember having a good tax hand, but no acceleration and he had t1 dude into spells and I was pretty dead right away.
G2 I mulled to 2 before seeing a single land.
R7 vs humans 2-0.
I recall this particular round was one of my oddest rounds vs humans. Both games I was on the draw with gemstone caverns, chalice of the void, and dismember. G1 I dismembered his hierarch and then locked him out with chalice on 1 (I guess he had 1 drops and no second land) Notably his land wasn't cavern in either game. G2 was the same thing except he started with vial and I drew my singleton boarded in sorcerous spyglass resulting in t2 spyglassing his vial and then t2 dismembering his hierarch and simianing into chalice for the same thing.
TOP 8
Quarterfinals vs G tron 2-1.
G1 I flooded after a t1 chalice and lost.
Got there g2 and got lucky g3 where he missed his 5th land for ostone before dying to my pressure.
Semifinals vs UR pyromancer ascension with thing in the ice 2-0
Finals vs Grixis Death's Shadow 2-1.
G1 I tried to get him with a fast arbtier strip mine on t2, but he had removal into t4 double shadow and I lost.
G2 I lead on t1 chalice and that was pretty much it. I recall I GQed his R source and at the end of the game I saw his hand where he had multiple kolaghan's command stuck in hand.
G3 was very very close. He tried to race me with some snappies and it ended up with a death's shadow + 2x snappies vs double thalias and a tks in a board-stall. Finally he swung in and I got the DS in combat with a dismember. He draws a young pizzy and I swing in forcing the snappies to block. At this point he has no cards in hand, 1 young pyromancer and nothing else with me at 1. I play an arbiter to block and cross my fingers he doesn't draw removal. He draws a dismember and got so excited that he used it in his drawstep to kill TKS when he could have lethaled me. He sat there for a good minute realizing his punt as he didn't draw a second removal spell, or at least not one he could cast and was dead on the crackback.
Wooh first place!
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
"Whoever makes the fewest mistakes wins." Great job, man!
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I didn't see you in Top 8 at Vegas, but how did you do?
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Nice tidbit was my opponent taunting me in chat for misclicking and making a bad attack (which I was able to salvage with displacer anyway)...meanwhile he never realized he could cast his 1 drops through my Chalice on 1 with his cavern, lol. I don’t even interact with anyone through chat on mtgo since it never ends well, but I almost considered it in this case.
The deck feels good, especially against combo. I actually had goblins just concede on the spot when I played Chalice on 1 in both games against them. There are other times it feels very clunky though, and I don’t think there’s anything you can really do about it. I’m spoiled after playing a million cantrips in storm, but I feel like with Infect and KCI on the rise, this deck is positioned pretty well.
Round 1) W - Ad Naus (DaSneakyPete)
Round 2) W - Mardu Pyro
Round 3) L - G Tron - This came down to game 3 where he had one turn to hit tron, and he did
Round 4) L - Living End - Really awkward game 3 where I lost a game to hard cast fatties when I had a RIP on board and could come up with no pressure
Round 5) W - Cheerios
Round 6) L - UR Control/Titi
Round 7) W - Hollow one
Round 8) W - UW Miracles
Deck felt good, a couple awkward draws and games where it came right down to the wire and my opponents had it. Oh well! I ran a single damping sphere side, think I'll make it 2.
Nice results! Do you think you could share how you sideboarded in your matchups?
Ad naus - Some number of story silence. I also ran a SB Rule of Law, which did actual nothing when they beat me with it out game 2 by EOT ad naus and then Lightning Storm on their turn. Chalice is pretty clutch in this matchup as well, being able to throw it down on 1 shuts off Angel’s Grace and Spoils, on 0 turns off Pact, and 2 has a lot of targets, but notably Echoing truth if you’ve already got one out on 1 or 2. Keeping them off mana seems to be key.
Mardu - Chalice on 1 can ruin their day if they keep a hand banking on looting/hand disruption. Rest In Peace comes in, as well as cast out/ixalan’s binding/celestial purge for blood moon.
Tron - Damping Sphere, Stony Silence. I should have had Spyglass in my SB, would come on here for sure. I think a lot of people who may not be familiar with playing the deck don’t realize how badly stony screws them over. Hands with Thalia/Arbiter are prioritized over the Eldrazi.
Living End - Rest In Peace, Damping Sphere/Rule of Law. Of course, you also need pressure, or else you’ll just get 5 drops beating your face in. Another point is that none of your hate is really safe in that Beast Within has the potential to put them right back in it, which is why I go for multiple hate pieces. In my case, my few creatures were killed by evoked shriekmaws...don’t think it warrants Honor Guard coming in, but I could be wrong.
Cheerios - You need some form of interaction to not just die turn 2/3, whether it’s chalice, Thalia, or a kill spell. Theoretically this should be good, bringing in Rule of Law/Damping Sphere, Stony Silence, but sometimes they just have it and you don’t. A chalice on 0 hurts them, a chalice on 0 and 2 is game over.
UR titi/Control - Honestly, I don’t know. Thalia is great but can eat a bolt, Chalice on 1 is fantastic, but even their countered 1-drop spells trigger TiTi. I think this was the only guy to actually finish ahead of me in standings, somewhere in top 32. Prioritize dismember/Thalia, hopefully drop chalice on 1, get there. SB is lacking here, though Rule of Law and Sphere should help.
Hollow one - Chalice on 1 is great. Rest In Peace for bloodghast/angler/Phoenix and sphere/Rule of Law for stifling hollow ones. Celestial purge is also great as a catch all, possibly cast out if you’re concerned about blood moon.
Miracles - play like a taxes deck. Prioritize Thalia/arbiter/ ghost quarter, Chalice on 1 turns off their cantrips/path. I think Rest In Peace is too low impact to bring in, as you’re only possibly shutting off Snapcaster recursion if that list even runs him. Spyglass would do work. I didn’t actually have Karn, but would have brought him in here (or anywhere grindy). Game 2 I played turn 1 Chalice with a gemstone caverns out, turn 2 Arbiter - > ghost quarter...that was basically it.
So this was more of a tournament report than SB guide, but hopefully it helped. Also typed on mobile, forgive the typos.
I miss white sideboard cards and Displacer and Thalia 1 and Thalia 2. And I miss my little lion-bear.
SpideSpace's list is a great starting point, so there we will begin and see how it goes.
@SpiderSpace
Speaking of which, what is your current list? Caught a few vids, curious where you are at re: lands and I wanted to here more about why you like Karn so much against mid-range.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I've been a bit MIA here it seems. Sorry about that guys.
Without Further ado, here's my tournament report from GP Las Vegas.
I took my Thalia Stompy list to GP Vegas and got 61st! This was my first day 2 and I'm pretty pleased with the deck choice and how I played. I'd take that 75 and try it again if I could. If I could have dodged a little more variance (this is where having any buys might have come in), I think I could have top8ed. I think my list was very well positioned.
Here's the short version of how I did:
4 humans 3-1
3 Jeskai 2-1
2 Mardu 1-1
2 jund 2-0
1 infect 1-0
1 UW miracles 1-0
1 G/B Tron 1-0
1 merfolk tie (this should have been a win and while I missed a couple things in our last game, I think this was a paper thing that happened because I'm used to mtgo).
It was the same 75 I won the challenge with https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1143958#paper
For a more in depth report, you can check out the notes I took on my phone as I went through the tournament. I had notes for every MU, but it seems some of what I had was lost because I exceeded the character count in the memo I saved things. I tried to go back through and fill in what I could. Also, I tried to include how I boarded, but also missed some of that stuff. Turns out going day 2 kinda took it out of me . Sorry about that. I hope you find it useful.
R1 vs Breanna on Jeskai control
G1 I mull to 6 on the play with a simian t1 arbiter. I then draw Thalia and had copter into displacer to get there.
G2 I board out 3 dismember for karn, spyglass, and cast out. Mull to 6 with a gemstone. I go t1 Thalia into t2 arbiter+gq. She paths arbiter the following turn. I draw arbiter and then go cavern into tks. The last turn she tries to snap path smasher and I say trigger and point at it. She says ok and goes to block without discarding not realizing what happened. I lethal her.
2-0
R2 vs Isaiah on Jeskai
G1 my opponent likes to be fancy with snap and block and then play the card after combat. He does this with arbiter and lets the bolt sit there. I tks for the blowout. The same thing happens with path and then I chalice into tks.
G2 I kept a clunker with gemstone. I need it up not lotus petalling it and he resolves teferi where I drawn in cards. The boarding is the same except g3 I sb out a gemstone for a rip. G3 is close where we both run low on cards. I smasher him to 3. He taps out for snap wrath. I have copter out and no cards in hand, but top another smasher.
2-1
R3 Fadel on Jund
I'm on the draw both games. I believe my opponent mulls to 6 both times too. Oh and I luckstoned both times ;). G1 I luckstone and he takes my thicc Thalia leaving displacer, simian, and dismember with some lands (the cavern exiled my second displacer) he follows it up with a bolt, but then his draw was pretty anemic and mine was full of squidbois.
G2 I bring in 2 rip 1 karn 1 cast out for 4 chalices. I run out t1 arbiter which he kills. I go t2 simian, karn. I proceed to then run away with the game while my opponent stumbled.
2-0
R4 vs Brian? On Mardu pyro
G1 I'm on the play with 2x TGoT, tks, temple, and some lands. He t1 thoughtseizes and has to take tks. I drew pretty well, but ultimately the taxes got me there.
I go -2 copter, -1 displacer, -1 tks, -1 dismember and-1? for cast out, karn, 2 rips, and 2 Dec in stone. On the play the? Become gemstone.
G2 he had a lili last hope plus souls draw and gets my awkward start despite my luckstone.
G3 I keep a slight clunker, but OP mulls to 5. He manages to deal with 2x smashers. He almost grinds me out, but after some canopies I rip tks to take his last card, looting. Tks went the distance.
Note: OP says he should only have moon vs me on the play because it's slow
R5 vs Elliot on WU miracles control
G1 t1 chalice stomp.
G2 we have a grindy match and he barely gets there with collonade.
G3 another crazy one. I Dec in stoned his entreat angels and get out karn which gets d sphered. I eventually get there with a tks and Thalia.
Out 3 dismember and in cast out, karn, and spyglass. G3 out 1 gemstones in 1 Dec in stone.
2-1
R6 vs D...? On merfolk
He runs me over g1 and I do that to him g2.
G3 I resolve a worship and a chalice on 2. He kept playing so I thought he had another out. The board was insane and I apparently missed multiple ways I could have won.
I brought in nearly the whole board -stony and rip.
We draw. 1-1-1.
R7 vs V... on Jeskai.
I mull to 5 and then a weak 6 G1 and 2 and lose.
R8 last shot at a win and in vs Megan on humans
G1 I'm on the play with a D&T kinda hand. She goes t1 hierarch into t2 mantis rider. I have no removal and scoop showing only Thalia.
The sb comes in and I mull to worship. I barely live resolving it with only smasher. She scoops. G3 I go to 5 with 2x dismember and triple land with a gemstone. I get it and decapitate her dork and then rider. I proceed to draw tocatli into displacer into worship. She names worship with mage and I draw Dec in stone. I got lucky here, but I got there! I boarded in 3 tocatli, 2 worship, 2 Dec in stone, cast out, and spyglass. On the play it's gemstone, 4 Thalia 4 arbiter. On the draw it's +1gemstone -1 chalice. I might have gone -1 more chalice for a Thalia, but I can't recall.
2-1
Note: I boarded pretty much the same vs merfolk.
That a 6-1-1 record. Yeaaah boi. I should be 7-1 with the tie punts, but at the end of the day I did it and I'm super stoked.
R1 vs Bobby on humans.
He runs me over g1. I bring in the board and mull to a 6 with removal and displacer and decide to keep. I almost stabilized, but never drew a hate effect I needed over 7 turns and died.
0-2
R2 vs Cody on infect
G1 I mull to 5 and go t1 chalice. He eventually finds a skite and agent. I find thalias and smasher. He echoing truths chalice, but forgets about Thalia to hit me to 9 poison before dying on the crackback. G2 I draw a 2nd dismember to go t1 take out the work t2 take out the agent into chalice on 1.
2-0
R3 vs Patrick on humans
G1 his start is a little slow and I fight with copter and displacer, but lose. G2 I kill with copter while I hide behind worship.
G3 I keep 7 with 2 plains, Worship, dismember, displacer, tks, and smasher. I rip tocatli for t2 tocatli t3 worship. He was tilted because he didn't see tocatli and the worship answered the booter.
2-1
R4 vs Taylor on Jund
I mull to 6 and get junded out g1.
G2 I keep a slow drazi heavy hand and he keeps a pretty slow out. I cast out lili and tks into tks +rip into smasher to win.
G3 I keep a 2x canopy temple hand with thicc Thalia, dismember, and simian. He ioks the Thalia, but then I draw tks and he has only bbe which hits bolt. I draw more drazi and win.
2-1
R5 vs Tyler on Mardu pyro.
I play g1, but he tears my hands to shreds while I flood. I try to race with smasher with tks om blocks vs pyro and friends. If I had hit 1 more thing I think I woulda had it.
G2 I go t1 arbiter and get him. He accidentally cracks a fetch and loses from there.
G3 was nuts. I kept a double simian 2x chalice, gq, cast put, and Dec in stone hand. My opponent takes the Dec in stone so I chalice him. We both miss land drops until he finds young pizzy who still gets tokens off 1 drops even if they're countered. I'm forced to gq myself to land a big Thalia and an arbiter. We still are stuck on 2 mana each (I drew 1 more after the gq] until he draws a terminate to finish me off.
1-2
Note: Mardu might be my closest MU in the meta. I'm not really scared at all of any of the other top decks. This one might be a coin flip.
R6 vs Ophel? On GB tron
G1 I mull to 5, but have a good start. He has natty tron so I lose. G2 and 3 I mull to 6, but have a hate piece t1 into displacer t2 hate piece t3 for ggs. -2 copter -1 gemstone(on the play)/1 cavern of souls on the draw -3 dismember for 2 Dec in stone 3 stony 1 spyglass.
2-1
Note: for whatever reason any of the splash tron lists feel much easier than mono G.
R7 vs?? On humans
G1 we both have suboptimal starts and it is a bit of a fight, but he gets there. G2 I keep a displacer removal 6 and rip a tocatli at the right time and eventually kill with tks while protecting myself with displacer.
G3 I keep a 7 with dismember, lands, simian, tocatli, and some drazi (hello there displacer). He goes t2 mage name tocatli and I dismember it into t2 tocatli. He's clearly unhappy. I rip a worship for land simian worship. Next turn it's displacer and I take the game over. I ended up drawing 2nd displacer and tocatli eventually. Also spyglass on izzet staticaster and chalice on 1 for whatever bizzarro stuff he might have. He refuses to scoop saying he has an answer. So I eventually draw tks and keep up 1 displacer activation and mull him out. What an end to the GP!
Takeaway: Overall I was very pleased with the deck's performance. If I were to go to that tournament again right now, I'd be quite happy with that 75. If I could guarantee I'd face exactly what I did, I'd probably try to make room for another Karn, scion of Urza in the board since I really didn't see much tron and did see a lot of midrange and control, but my understanding was that it was all over day 2, so I think I made the right call with sorcerous spyglass. In fact, I like the effect enough that I've been trying 1x phyrexian revoker MD over 1x dismember on mtgo and it feels right for the meta.
@redtwister Baby Karn is a difficult walker to kill and can take over the game from multiple angles while also being castable under a blood moon. It's everything I want in a SB anti control/midrange slot.
As always, feel free to ask any questions.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
I think I need some help with timing for Smugglers Copter. On a turn 2 with no acceleration from turn 1, how do you prioritize casting Thalia/Arbiter vs Copter?
Will be the first to admit I've made a lot of mistakes here but I'm still not sure how exactly to think through it. I can generally tell between Arbiter and Thalia which tax is more important but when I have one or 2 of those vs Copter, I tend to overthink.
Any general guidelines or rules of thumb you guys can offer?
A friend of mine and I picked this deck up a week ago and have been knocking around with it. I have gone 3-0-1 at two different local tournaments and I have tweaked the deck slightly here.
I dropped the Copters, in favor of two mainboard Karn's, removed a Sheffet Dunes and Displacer and added two Mind Stone. I found that the biggest issue for me was the lack of card draw later in the game. I get that the Copters let you cycle, but I think Karn + Mind Stone, gives you the chance to get large Karn-structs out (as you usually have chalice in play already) and my meta has a ton of Midrange and control. Finally, I added an Avacyn to the sideboard for mirror like matches and Humans. I found the flash ability great and when I wanted her to flip, it basically acted as a board wipe.
Anyways - this deck is awesome. Love to get peoples take on if they have any ideas on how we can tweak this further.
I have 2 5-0 trophies now in the new Friendly League in session after grinding a bunch and getting zero trophies in the last session - even though Karn has only been useful once, I'll take that as a good sign for now.
In terms of other ideas for tweaking, I basically play Leagues with the standard WW or also a RW version below:
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/eldrazi-staxes-rw/?cb=1531280329
It's about 59% win rate right now while the WW is closer to 60%. Not sure if any is better than the other - the RW gives you access to Anger of the Gods which is an excellent sweeper for most match-ups that are faster than us.
If you wish, you can watch the matches below:
Eldrazi Stompy and Taxes (Deck Tech + Matches)
I recorded 5 matches total. The match-ups were: Tron, Storm, Grixis Reveler, Amulet Titan, Grixis Death's Shadow. If you only care about watching a specific match-up, you can look in the description of the video to jump straight to it. If you have any questions/criticisms/suggestions, I'd love to hear them! Deck is great, thanks SpiderSpace for bringing some awareness to it.
I posted this question a while back and didn't get any answers, but how do you guys sequence your 2 drops between Thalia/Leonin Arbiter/Smuggler's Copter/Chalice of the Void? Specifically with Copter. I feel confident about my play decisions when it's between Thalia/Leonin Arbiter/Chalice. However, I feel like I make a lot of bad decisions when I'm trying to decide between Copter + some combination of the other 3.
How do you guys generally think through a hand with no T1 acceleration and Copter + 1 or some combination of the other 3 2-drops (treating Chalice as a 2 drop obviously)? I know others have mentioned how awkward Copter generally feels and I would agree, but I also think a large part of it is because I never really feel confident in how/when to play it in this deck. I've actually switched to 1x Copter and 1x Matter Reshaper just to avoid my bad decision-making lol :-\
Are you the beatdown or not? That seems to me to be the question. I will say, I assume you did not have a turn 1 option to play one of these, because IMO turn 1 Chalice is always the correct choice Game 1.
Any game where you don't know the answer, aka Game 1 against an unknown opponent, IMO it is always right to assume you want to be disruptive. From there it depends on your mana, what cards you have in hand, and your third land. Therefore, Thalia, Chalice or Arbiter will almost always come down before Copter.
Games 2 and 3:
- if you are the beatdown, Copter on Turn 2 unless you absolutely think you need Chalice. That way Copter attacks turn 3, no matter what you do.
- if you are the control deck, Copter comes down when you have exhausted the control options you began with.
That's how I think of it, and then of course variations based on your hand (Temple, Temple, TKS is almost always the right turn 2 play, regardless of Thalia, Arbiter, etc.)
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Redtwister, didn't you say you play the serum powder Eldrazi stompy deck? How does that compare to this? I've pretty much got all of the cards for that Deck so was thinking of trying that Deck out for fun.
Thanks, glad it was somewhat helpful.
I don't know, I think it depends on what you think Copter is there for. IMHO, it is a card that plays into the mid to long game by making creatures with summoning sickness into a 3/3 flying filter machine, and in the absence of draw/filter aside from Canopy, that by itself seems good enough.
I do play the Jordan Boisvert Powder version sometimes. I went for a while where it was all I played and I realized a few things in the process.
1. The Powder deck is an aggro deck, first and foremost, that primarily wants to lay down some disruption in order to get aggressive without much opposition. Now, as a big aggro or stompy deck, it does play out like a mid-range ramp beatdown deck in many ways, except that fast mana does everything we are used to it doing. I did manage a turn 3 kill with it once, but it is very capable of long, grindy matches.
2. Powder has nothing like the creature control elements of this deck. Thalia 1& 2 plus Arbiter completely change how you play out games and whether or not you need to race in any given match.
Take the question about Copter for example. In Powder, I think Copter turn 2 is nearly always the right choice, except for Chalice on 1. Why? Because almost every subsequent drop fuels their aggression and the rest of their disruption (except TKS) comes from their manabase.
3. Sideboard quality definitely favors us, but mulligan power favors Powder. If you want the strongest answers to problems, play this. If you want some things that get stuff out of the way so you can crush your opponent, and you want the occasional insane mull 7 twice, win turn 4, play the Powder deck.
4. I still don't really enjoy being an aggro player. I mean, I can win with G Stompy in Pauper, and it is a deck I am actually good with, but I like my B Control deck better even though it is probably not as good. Or I like DnT in Legacy. Therefore, I think I play this deck better than the Powder deck.
Conclusion:
The decks are not the same and do not play out the same, despite sharing a large number of cards. Powder is an aggro deck with Chalice, an aggression-centric deck with some prison elements or the equivalent of Eldrazi Stompy in Legacy. Our deck is closer to something like actual DnT, which is more or less a tempo prison deck, with creatures that clearly interfere with our opponent's tempo, mana development and card advantage, as we grind out a little life from them each turn.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I did like Spiderspace's tech of mainboarding a Phyrexian Revoker. I've put that in place of the 2nd Smuggler's Copter and kept the 4x Dismembers.
Anyone else playing this deck still? Any interesting tech or sideboard cards you guys have been experimenting with?
I moved to Spirits and even there I am not entirely happy and I don''t want to play any of the above decks, so...
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.