@axman
RE: discussing your list here, it is definitely not a prison-style deck in the way that Stabil0-derived builds are, though you do have Arbiter + Thalia for some taxing. It looks quite different to me, if only because the gameplan seems different.
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I haven't liked the BW build, it just feels too inconsistent and clunky going into so many 4 drops and no 2 drops. I also desperately miss Chalice, I just love playing the prison deck and I hate being a typical mid-range deck.
So back to the classic build. Manabase is my main issue right now, as I want to be able to do WW, but with only 10-ish sources, that is tough. Plus the presence of so many U control decks makes me want 2 Cavern of souls and that makes WW even tougher.
I am also testing 24 lands a la SpiderSpace, which worries me in terms of consistency alongside 4 GQ and 3 Gemstone Caverns that you never want in multiples.
Meta Decisions
I am less worried about Scapeshift than ever, since there are at least 4 Blood Moon-capable decks running around (Blue Moon, Grixis Control, Mardu Pyromancer, GR Ponza) and it also isn't very good against Cryptic Command decks. However, that probably means that 1 Wastes is worthwhile.
Eidolon of Rhetoric main is a concession to control, since holding them to 1 spell a turn is extremely valuable Game 1. With Thalia, it also essentially makes Game 1 against combo decks very favored for us, not to mention Burn. The downside is that it is not aggressive, which we want to be against many decks.
I really, really like Thalia, Heretic Cathar in Modern. I know she dies a lot, but she also causes mana stumbling and opponents' creatures coming into play tapped seems great. Considering Eiganjo Castle if I have 6 Thalia in the main.
Sideboard
3 Grafdigger's Cage and no Rest in Peace is a concession to CoCo and CoCo-Chord decks, and it happens to do most of what we want for dealing with graveyard decks, though it is strictly worse against Kolaghan's Command and traditional mid-range decks using Tarmogoyf. It is also somewhat worse against Tasigur/Zombie Fish and Mardu Pyromancer (doesn't stop them from casting a cheap Bedlam Reveler) decks, but those are typically also cmc 1-heavy decks. I don't know. Maybe I don't need 3 with the next card under consideration:
Linvala, Keeper of Silence is a card I tinker with from time to time. She is very good against creature combo, Bant Eldrazi, and GR Ponza.
Damping Matrix is another idea that can act like an additional Stony Silence against Affinity, Tron and Lantern Control, but it also shuts off a lot of Counters Company and Elves, even though it is a nonbo with Eldrazi Displacer, but Displacer is typically bad in those matches.
Settle the Wreckage and Worship are clearly for Humans and any other go-wide creature strategy that is not Counters Company (Merfolk, Bant Spirits, Elves, BR Hollowed One). Worship really has a wide variety of uses and many decks without a ton of removal just can't beat it.
Elspeth, Sun's champion for the same reason SpiderSpace runs little Elspeth and Gideon, but I am not convinced those two are good enough against control and mid-range.
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Don't know if anyone is posting any longer, but I have to say, that RG Eldrazi deck is pretty cool. It is NOT this deck type, of course. It is more or less a mid-range beatdown deck, ramp and all. However, what I love about it is Eldrazi Obligator. What a sweet card. I ran it with much happiness in my Wr build and definitely won some games with it.
It has made me wonder if Wg is possible. I tried it before, but I didn't really use the tools G has to offer: mana dorks esp. Noble Hierarch and Ancient Stirrings. I'm contemplating a build with Chalice of the Void in the side because I am not crazy about that card at the moment, maybe something like this:
4 Stirrings/4 Hierarch allow us to cut down on lands and also dig for outs instead of terrible late game top decking.
I know the mana is a bit tight, but the RG deck only runs 12 G and R lands, not counting Cavern of Souls and mine is running 13 each, with 12 colorless lands. We could also do 1 Wooded Bastion. I added Mind Stone to help against Blood Moon and to ramp as well as draw.
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I think I've settled on a 75 for GP Phoenix and would love some feedback. In particular I wonder if matter reshaper is the right 1x value oriented flex slot. Also I'm unsure about the board.
@SpiderSpace
Personally, I would drop 1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben for land 25. I know the deck sometimes floods, but mana screw is much worse and there is a lot of land hate running around. Otherwise, the mainboard looks fine.
Sideboard, I get most of it, but three questions:
1. 1 of Kitchen Finks?
2. Tocatli Honor Guard. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Torpor Orb, I just want to know what you are bringing it in against and why not just the Orb? I know Humans, Spirits, and DnT are all significantly hurt by it, though only WR DnT is getting much love right now, while Humans and Spirits are in a very bad place, but also isn't Orb just harder to remove? Is this enough value right now, given that there are in effect only 3 decks that are hurt by it and it seems like those decks are Tier 3 and Tier 2 since the unbans?
3. Gideon 4 drop. He seems eminently mediocre. I would rather a second Elspeth or big Elspeth.
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Sometimes I'm flooded and sometimes I'm starved, but I think I'm happy with this mana base. I think 4 thalias is very important. If I were to make a cut, it'd probably be the reshaper as that's my flex slot and I'm uncertain what it should be (aven mindcensor and bladesplicer chief among other candidates). For a reference point, I think colorless eldrazi should have a similar land count to us, but they're on 23 lands as of this last GP.
It seems to me that 2 stony 2 ratchet (and the worhsip and cast out?) should be enough against affinity and I'm already fine vs eggs, lantern, tron, and ad naus so I think the -1 stony shouldn't hurt me too bad while the ratchet should help me in trouble spots vs aggroswarms/tokens or even vs blood moon.
kitchen finks is the card I'm least sure about in the board, but I need a value slot to help vs stuff like GBx. While mirran crusader should be better, I'm not keen on him being bolted. Plus the life might be nice as I'm anticipating burn.My main concern is that it might be difficult to cast.
tocatli honor guard is preferable to hushwing gryff because I need it ASAP vs something like humans (which I think is still fine atm). I like it more than the orb because it attacks and I can see myself bringing it in vs something like control with snapcaster mage, vendilion clique. Otherwise it's just a versatile card that I can bring in vs a range of decks including D&T and bantcompany to primetime.
Of those decks, most can remove him (humans often has no way and if they do it's like 1 dismember and company has been occasionally pathless lately), but they only have so much removal to use with many cards they'd like to kill. Plus it works with worship ;P.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is slightly better at grinding imo even if he doesn't let my dudes fly over to dome them. I like him a little more on an empty board. I think it's a toss up between the 2 and I found 6 mana elspeth often uncastable.
Been off of this deck for a while as the meta changed so much so quickly and wasn't happy with the results I was getting (still lifetime 226-152 with this deck at ~60% win rate), but seeing your 5-0 made me pick it back up again! 3-2 on the first go-round but was admittedly rusty with this.
Had a few questions on your sideboard selections, I noticed your latest builds don't have any spot removal for enchantments/artifacts/creatures (sideboards used to always have the Paths in them) as well as no sweepers (except Ratchet Bomb). Are you content with your current sideboard configuration?
I know we've all run Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Nahiri, Harbinger (back in the day for the RW versions) and now looks like you're throwing in Karn, Scion of Urza. How is Karn working out? Would you say he's best of the 4 options?
Thanks brother - awesome to see your recent finishes!
Guys, after running this deck through 10 Friendly Leagues - here are my results (maindeck is same as Spiderspace's 5-0 deck below while sideboard is slightly different):
Thoughts are this deck is strong in the meta and does well against a very diverse Modern field. My main questions for you guys is how do we possibly beat Humans? Humans is way too fast and even with 2 Tocatli Honor Guards, 2 Worships in the SB - I'm pretty much an auto-loss to that deck everytime where I don't even steal a game against them. How does regular D&T or this deck possibly fight a deck with flyers, interactive cards, and more explosive starts than ours?
Thanks! I also have been putting up some pretty good finishes since then. One thing to note about the link I 5-0ed with is that I didn't end up liking warping wail. Otherwise it's still pretty similar. I've also gone up to 4x canopy which I'm certain was correct. I'm not sure why I be at did that before.
I'm glad to hear it treated you pretty well.
Humans is not favored preboard, tho it is possible to win with things like a t1 chalice on the play, fast smasher, or displacer+ dismember getting there. Postboard, much like affinity, it gets much much better. With an abundance of removal, 3 tocatli, and worship the matchup becomes good. You mentioned your board is different than mine and I wonder how much that contributes to our win% discrepancy. Mind sharing your board?
Oh and Karn is just the go to grind slot. He's easier to cast than something like Gideon and can even be played through a blood moon. If you want a sb grindy walker slot, he's your man.
The big difference between your builds, aside from that, comes in the sideboard.
1 Cast Out vs. 1 Ixalan's Binding
1 Declaration in Stone + 1 Karn, Scion of Urza vs 2 Declaration in Stone
I'm still on the Serum Powder Colorless, but I'm glad to see people rocking the WW Death and Staxes.
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Awesome seeing TCGPlayer show some love to Death & Staxes. Honestly besides Spiderspace, I didn't really know anyone else was really playing this. Cool to see us get some exposure.
I'm really curious about the Ixalan's Binding - for 1 extra mana (vs O-Ring, Fiend Hunter, Fairground Warden, Banisher Priest) and no flash (vs Cast Out), not sure why the 1x main and 1x SB. What exactly does the 2nd ability of Ixalan's Binding help against?
I've played probably ~20 Leagues now in the last few weeks. Have yet to get a single 5-0 but plenty of 4-1's and only 1-4 one time and no 0-5's. Probably averaging 3-2 overall which is enough to go infinite via the Friendly Leagues so I'm happy.
Sideboard is actually pretty close to Spiderspace's except I don't own a Karn (waiting for price to go down) so run an Elspeth, Knight-Errant for grinding match-ups. Also, Tocatli Honor Guard was a 3x but now went down to only a 2x so that might explain the variance, but honestly the match-ups Tocatli helps the most in is Merfolk/Humans/D&T and I was still losing a majority of those match-ups with 3 Tocatli's while also starting to lose to UR Storm more than I'd like so I took 1x Tocali for 1x Eidolon. I also kept a Tec Edge in as I started losing to Tron more than I wanted as well.
@Spiderspace,
Perhaps the right question then is what do you side out for Humans? Siding for Merfolk is covered in the original Primer, but Humans didn't exist back then so maybe I'm just siding incorrectly. Also, I noticed you have been putting up great results with a traditional D&T build as well. As a long-time D&T Player myself, I actually have done better with this Death & Staxes build than any traditional D&T variants (lifetime 60% win rate vs >50% for D&T). Which do you think is better positioned right now and do you have a favorite?
EDIT:
Also you said you weren't impressed with 1x Warping Wail - why not? I'm testing 4x Dismember right now, but my time with a 1x Warping Wail was reasonably useful. When it was useful, it was VERY USEFUL (stopping Scapeshift/Living End/Madcap Experiment) and exiling Dark Confidant/Hierarchs/Thing in Ice. I do get though there were also many times where it sat in my hand doing nothing.
@Spiderspace
FYI - seems like Bertram was watching your video, so he's part of the community.
Yeah, I don't see the upside of Ixalan's Binding overcoming not having flash. I have always liked the 1-of Cast Out main.
I find it very interesting that Matter Reshaper has more or less disappeared in favor of Copter, but that seems reasonable, as it drops the curve, let's Arbiter swing more, and still provides some way to dig through your deck.
If I ran this now, I would most definitely go with Spiderspace's list, except that I am not convinced of the need for Cavern of Souls. The much more Eldrazi-centric build I have listed below doesn't run it and doesn't need it, and I don't think this deck does either. Play smart around counter spells, don't jazz the mana base.
Aggro-combo that doesn't just lose to Chalice isn't seeing a lot of play, so the Spirit isn't as good as the 3rd Tocatli. Karn also seems like a better choice than little Elspeth, but if you don't have $50, I get it. However, I don't know how much that card will drop, as it now sees consistent play in every constructed format where it is legal.
For comparison with another flavor of Prison-Stompy with Eldrazi, this is what I am running right now in the Serum Powder Eldrazi Stompy, which is much less prison-centric in exchange for consistency, card advantage and aggression. These are currently my two favorite decks, though I am also putting together Mono-R Prison, which is not really Stompy at all, but more like Mono-R Prison that won the Birmingham Legacy GP.
The deck has been getting a ton of attention since this last weekend after my modern challenge finish, 5-0s, ptq top 16, and bertram's top 8. I was a tad sad going back through that video as I punted one of my losses g1 to bant company and it might have made the difference to let me get to top 8. Ah well. Making 1 mistake at such a long tournament is nothing to beat myself up over.
I do see the possible problem of having all the dismembers and losing to the life loss, but I've really been struggling to find a better removal spell for the deck. warping wail just didn't kill enough and the most relevant sorcery I wanted to counter was good ol uncounterable wrath (supreme verdict). I've tested spatial contortion and it didn't quite do it for me either. so I've been on the 4th dismember.
Reshaper is fine, but I personally don't like it as much as copter. Being able to get through your lands or the wrong half of your deck is vital. Reshaper only goes through 1 card if it dies. Also, having a flier int he worship stall-states is really nice.
In terms of humans, I board very similar to how I might vs affinity subbing stony for tocatli and keeping copter. One thing to note is that I like chalice on the play as you can sometimes just go t1 chalice and win though it's pretty awful otherwise.
The only MU I've been running into with any consistency that is difficult pre and post has actually been G tron. I'm somewhat shocked to see that as the MU used to always be free. I've been testing damping sphere and crucible of worlds in the board, but I'm not sure just yet how it should look. Having sphere and stony feels like it might be overboarding. On a tangentially related note, I've been starting to wonder how much I need the cards that answer blood moon. I've been beating mardu pretty well and can kinda play around/thru moon often, though it can definitely get us.
I like cavern of souls a lot actually. It helps seal up any kinda deck that would counter our stuff and while those decks aren't typically tough, it can matter. We don't have many tools post board to help there, so it's nice having a trump card. Furthermore, I have cast one too many simians off it that have mattered to go back. The only other utility land I'd consider is some kinda LD slot since that would help vs control and tron, but I doubt a 1x does that much.
Stabil0, you're back! Welcome back - glad to have you back on the thread. Couldn't come at a better time with the recent finishes - I just got back on the deck a few weeks ago myself and have been doing enjoying running this through 30 or so Friendly Leagues and going infinite (barely).
I'm still not liking my records vs Merfolk/D&T/Humans/fast aggro that's not burn that I'm going to go back to the RW variant for a spin. I think Anger of the Gods + Tocatli Honor Guard can really change the match-up a LOT. I'm in my first League right now with this deck below at 3-0, but will wait until I've done a few more to report back on my findings. Let's get this discussion more active again like the old days!
Long time D&T player here (used to post in the D&T thread somewhat frequently). I had been aware of SpiderSpace's finishes with the deck on MTGO before, but as you all have noticed, the recent finishes brought it back to my attention. I actually thought I could find some more information about it in the D&T thread, but was confused when I couldn't find anything (obviously that has fortunately changed now that I am here haha).
I had been working on GW hatebears for SCG Regionals this past weekend. But after finding this deck, this past week, I got the missing pieces to try it out on MTGO, and have put the deck together on paper. I did some quick testing (mediocre results but great learning experiences) and some crash course learning watching SpiderSpace's Twitch VOD, and decided to take this deck to Regionals yesterday.
This is a write-up of my preparation, testing, tournament, and other tidbits. It's fairly lengthy, but I figure could be of interest to you all.
I'm glad to see that my twitch VODS were put to some good use! It sounds like you did some really good work and had pretty great results, all considered. I know it can be hard afterward when you realize you made a punt (did you see that game I had vs bant knightfall?), but it's best to take it on the chin. Everyone can make mistakes, especially at a longer event like that and without much experience with the deck. I've been impressed with the 75 you took, though I've been doing some testing mostly with the board and the 4th dismember before Vegas to see if I can get any valuable information I was missing. I'll likely write up a tournament report of my own afterwards.
Anyway, thanks for sharing your results and I'm glad the deck is treating you well!
EDIT: I'm looking forward to seeing how much representation the deck had at regionals because I know quite a few people who said they were going to take it. I should also note that my win % has gone down quite a bit since the deck has received as much attention as it has. I think people are prepping for us a little more than they used to. I'm down to a still pretty great 68%.Having said that, there's still no other list I'd rather take to Vegas.
Congrats on the results. Great finish! I only skin down to the bottom but will read your report in detail later. Just wanted to say I'm thrilled with the Finish and more people getting excited about our deck! I have still yet to play a single mirror up to this point... That may not last much longer.
Spiderspace and everyone else, what's y'all's thoughts on why G Tron has become so much more difficult of a matchup?
In lifetime league play, I started 10-0 vs Tron. Now I'm 18-7 implying it's become more of 50/50 matchup now. I'm not sure what has changed though or if I should be playing the matchup differently.
I'm glad to see that my twitch VODS were put to some good use! It sounds like you did some really good work and had pretty great results, all considered. I know it can be hard afterward when you realize you made a punt (did you see that game I had vs bant knightfall?), but it's best to take it on the chin. Everyone can make mistakes, especially at a longer event like that and without much experience with the deck. I've been impressed with the 75 you took, though I've been doing some testing mostly with the board and the 4th dismember before Vegas to see if I can get any valuable information I was missing. I'll likely write up a tournament report of my own afterwards.
Anyway, thanks for sharing your results and I'm glad the deck is treating you well!
EDIT: I'm looking forward to seeing how much representation the deck had at regionals because I know quite a few people who said they were going to take it. I should also note that my win % has gone down quite a bit since the deck has received as much attention as it has. I think people are prepping for us a little more than they used to. I'm down to a still pretty great 68%.Having said that, there's still no other list I'd rather take to Vegas.
Thanks for the response, appreciated!
Regarding the 4th Dismember and sideboard slots, when I tested on MTGO, I actually tried some combination of Cast out and Ixalan's Binding (1/1 split of the two in the main/sideboard). But ultimately for Regionals I ended up going with your exact list. However, after the tournament, I think I have a better idea of why Ixalan's Binding can be so good (over, as someone else had asked, Oblivion Ring for example). In particular, I think it's very good against Mardu Pyromancer and Tron (both of which are less in our favour than we'd like). From what I can tell, the Mardu matchup tends to be close until the opponent pulls ahead with Bedlam Reveler or something. Binding can answer it cleanly, as well as prevent the opponent from chaining multiple Revelers, which is a very real thing and they best way of exploding ahead. I think the same logic applies to Tron, which plays with a lot of redundancy and is centered around a few key threats that we need to handle.
Congrats on the results. Great finish! I only skin down to the bottom but will read your report in detail later. Just wanted to say I'm thrilled with the Finish and more people getting excited about our deck! I have still yet to play a single mirror up to this point... That may not last much longer.
Thank you! I didn't expect to play against the mirror, but I did come across it one time in open play. I think I was the better player, but Tocatli Honor Guard and Displacer made his TKS look pretty bad.. haha.
The 2x Anger of the Gods are well worth the splash in my opinion. When you have Worship-stalled board states, this lets you wipe out an army of Humans/Merfolk/Soul Sisters/Tokens leaving your Smashers/Thought-Knot Seers ready to win instead of waiting for 2x Smuggler's Copter to fly over. The addition of Wear/Tear to the SB I think has also been a welcome addition. Finally, RW splash gets you access to Engineered Explosives, which is better than Ratchet Bomb in almost all instances. Manabase is still questionable, but basically I went back through all of the old discussion threads between Redtwister, Stabil0, and Spiderspace on the subject to try to come up with something that works while keeping as many Horizon Canopys in as possible. The only time the manabase has hurt has been a couple times when I definitely wished an Aether Hub was a Sacred Foundry so I may go ahead and trade the Aether Hub out for a 2nd Sacred Foundry. Other than that, no issues.
Other than that though, I think the WW versions have a lot of great tech and are obviously getting great finishes for a reason so tried to mirror the deck after as much of the recent tournament placing builds as possible (2x Tocatli, 2x Worship, etc). 5 Leagues though is still not a ton of data though so will keep grinding with this in the meantime and report back. If any of the higher skilled players want to take this for a spin, would love to get your thoughts.
@2imu
Wow, great report. My only quibble is that Stabil0 created the deck, but Spiderpsace has really been it's emissary for several months now, and doing a bang-up job of it too. This is a difficult deck with a pretty steep learning curve. Going 6-3 at an SCG Regionals is very good.
Good point about Ixalan's Binding. Those are matches where you definitely want to stop them from running out threat #2,3,4.
@Stabil0
Welcome back! You playing again or just stopping by?
@Spiderspace
You have been rocking it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
@redtwister
Thanks for the compliment! I really enjoy writing, I usually do a tournament report every time I come back from an event (most of them are formalized and posted in my blog). My apologies about the poor scholarship, at the time I played in the tournament, I had just found this thread, and didn't actually go back to look at the first page.
I was overall satisfied with my play (aside from all the things I thought/realized in retrospect were misplays or wrong decisions). Thankfully the deck is mostly comprised of cards I've played with an extensive amount already. But I am still getting a feel for it - compared to D&T and 4c Loam (with which I've played with Chalice), this deck has a much higher ceiling for doing unfair things, which demands a different approach and skillset when it comes to evaluating hands to keep/mulligan.
= = =
Here is the SCG Regionals Top 8 metagame (I compiled the data and made this figure). One minor surprise I had was how well colourless Eldrazi did - most of them were the Serum Powder/Chalice version of the deck. Their strong results are a good indication of the current strength and position of unfair SSG/Chalice/TKS/Reality Smasher. This is a good sign, since Thalia Stompy is built on the same premise. Compared to that, I think playing cards like Thalia/Arbiter and having white sideboard cards ought to be much stronger. All I'm saying is - I think these are all signs further pointing towards this deck being a good one in the current format.
@bmchu168
At first I was mildly skeptical, but after thinking about it some more, I am intrigued with the idea of a WR version of the deck. The major thing the deck gains is a much better Mardu Pyromancer matchup (as well as better matchup against Humans and Affinity, though we have a plan/tools for that), which is one of our weaker matchups overall. Though this comes at the cost of a weaker manabase of course - maybe. I think Horizon Canopy is one of our strongest lands (unfair decks tend to have a lot of "air" in them, which Canopy helps with), and losing out on them is a real cost. On the other hand, filterlands might be a great tool, since they provide colourless mana as well as singlehandedly provide two coloured mana.
I think it's a good avenue to look into, though my instinct is 1) there isn't enough room to really take advantage of many red cards and 2) the manabase being slightly shakier might not ultimately be worth it. Could be wrong though.
@2imu (and anyone who care to answer)
So If you could go back and play another similarly large tournament at the moment, how would you change the SB specifically? I feel that everything in my SB other than the cast out/c purge is locked in (maybe the 2 dec in stone vs 1 r bomb 1 dec split is a thing). I was slightly concerned about G tron, but I think we still have game there, and I feel like I've been beating mardu pyro pretty decently and they're the main blood moon deck. I'm not sure I need SB answers to the card beyond just tight plays though both cards do more than just answer blood moon.
Also I've been testing spatial contortion which has been fine, but I think I'm probably gonna stick with 4x dismember MD.
RE: discussing your list here, it is definitely not a prison-style deck in the way that Stabil0-derived builds are, though you do have Arbiter + Thalia for some taxing. It looks quite different to me, if only because the gameplan seems different.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
So back to the classic build. Manabase is my main issue right now, as I want to be able to do WW, but with only 10-ish sources, that is tough. Plus the presence of so many U control decks makes me want 2 Cavern of souls and that makes WW even tougher.
I am also testing 24 lands a la SpiderSpace, which worries me in terms of consistency alongside 4 GQ and 3 Gemstone Caverns that you never want in multiples.
Meta Decisions
I am less worried about Scapeshift than ever, since there are at least 4 Blood Moon-capable decks running around (Blue Moon, Grixis Control, Mardu Pyromancer, GR Ponza) and it also isn't very good against Cryptic Command decks. However, that probably means that 1 Wastes is worthwhile.
Eidolon of Rhetoric main is a concession to control, since holding them to 1 spell a turn is extremely valuable Game 1. With Thalia, it also essentially makes Game 1 against combo decks very favored for us, not to mention Burn. The downside is that it is not aggressive, which we want to be against many decks.
I really, really like Thalia, Heretic Cathar in Modern. I know she dies a lot, but she also causes mana stumbling and opponents' creatures coming into play tapped seems great. Considering Eiganjo Castle if I have 6 Thalia in the main.
Sideboard
3 Grafdigger's Cage and no Rest in Peace is a concession to CoCo and CoCo-Chord decks, and it happens to do most of what we want for dealing with graveyard decks, though it is strictly worse against Kolaghan's Command and traditional mid-range decks using Tarmogoyf. It is also somewhat worse against Tasigur/Zombie Fish and Mardu Pyromancer (doesn't stop them from casting a cheap Bedlam Reveler) decks, but those are typically also cmc 1-heavy decks. I don't know. Maybe I don't need 3 with the next card under consideration:
Linvala, Keeper of Silence is a card I tinker with from time to time. She is very good against creature combo, Bant Eldrazi, and GR Ponza.
Damping Matrix is another idea that can act like an additional Stony Silence against Affinity, Tron and Lantern Control, but it also shuts off a lot of Counters Company and Elves, even though it is a nonbo with Eldrazi Displacer, but Displacer is typically bad in those matches.
Settle the Wreckage and Worship are clearly for Humans and any other go-wide creature strategy that is not Counters Company (Merfolk, Bant Spirits, Elves, BR Hollowed One). Worship really has a wide variety of uses and many decks without a ton of removal just can't beat it.
Elspeth, Sun's champion for the same reason SpiderSpace runs little Elspeth and Gideon, but I am not convinced those two are good enough against control and mid-range.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
It has made me wonder if Wg is possible. I tried it before, but I didn't really use the tools G has to offer: mana dorks esp. Noble Hierarch and Ancient Stirrings. I'm contemplating a build with Chalice of the Void in the side because I am not crazy about that card at the moment, maybe something like this:
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Brushlands
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Temple Garden
2 Razorverge Thicket
Creatures 28
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to Exile
2 Mind Stone
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Stony Silence
3 Dromoka's Command
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Rest in Peace
4 Stirrings/4 Hierarch allow us to cut down on lands and also dig for outs instead of terrible late game top decking.
I know the mana is a bit tight, but the RG deck only runs 12 G and R lands, not counting Cavern of Souls and mine is running 13 each, with 12 colorless lands. We could also do 1 Wooded Bastion. I added Mind Stone to help against Blood Moon and to ramp as well as draw.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Colorless Serum Powder variation here.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I think I've settled on a 75 for GP Phoenix and would love some feedback. In particular I wonder if matter reshaper is the right 1x value oriented flex slot. Also I'm unsure about the board.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/320427841042907137/421098284304695318/unknown.png?width=1405&height=676
Thanks!
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
Personally, I would drop 1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben for land 25. I know the deck sometimes floods, but mana screw is much worse and there is a lot of land hate running around. Otherwise, the mainboard looks fine.
Sideboard, I get most of it, but three questions:
1. 1 of Kitchen Finks?
2. Tocatli Honor Guard. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Torpor Orb, I just want to know what you are bringing it in against and why not just the Orb? I know Humans, Spirits, and DnT are all significantly hurt by it, though only WR DnT is getting much love right now, while Humans and Spirits are in a very bad place, but also isn't Orb just harder to remove? Is this enough value right now, given that there are in effect only 3 decks that are hurt by it and it seems like those decks are Tier 3 and Tier 2 since the unbans?
3. Gideon 4 drop. He seems eminently mediocre. I would rather a second Elspeth or big Elspeth.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Sometimes I'm flooded and sometimes I'm starved, but I think I'm happy with this mana base. I think 4 thalias is very important. If I were to make a cut, it'd probably be the reshaper as that's my flex slot and I'm uncertain what it should be (aven mindcensor and bladesplicer chief among other candidates). For a reference point, I think colorless eldrazi should have a similar land count to us, but they're on 23 lands as of this last GP.
I have since updated the SB to be the following;
1 worship
2 tocatli honor guard
1 celestial purge
2 stony silence
2 ratchet bomb
2 rest in peace
2 kitchen finks
1 gideon, ally of zendikar
1 elspeth, knight-errant
1 cast out
It seems to me that 2 stony 2 ratchet (and the worhsip and cast out?) should be enough against affinity and I'm already fine vs eggs, lantern, tron, and ad naus so I think the -1 stony shouldn't hurt me too bad while the ratchet should help me in trouble spots vs aggroswarms/tokens or even vs blood moon.
kitchen finks is the card I'm least sure about in the board, but I need a value slot to help vs stuff like GBx. While mirran crusader should be better, I'm not keen on him being bolted. Plus the life might be nice as I'm anticipating burn.My main concern is that it might be difficult to cast.
tocatli honor guard is preferable to hushwing gryff because I need it ASAP vs something like humans (which I think is still fine atm). I like it more than the orb because it attacks and I can see myself bringing it in vs something like control with snapcaster mage, vendilion clique. Otherwise it's just a versatile card that I can bring in vs a range of decks including D&T and bantcompany to primetime.
Of those decks, most can remove him (humans often has no way and if they do it's like 1 dismember and company has been occasionally pathless lately), but they only have so much removal to use with many cards they'd like to kill. Plus it works with worship ;P.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is slightly better at grinding imo even if he doesn't let my dudes fly over to dome them. I like him a little more on an empty board. I think it's a toss up between the 2 and I found 6 mana elspeth often uncastable.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-modern-constructed-league-2018-05-15/
Been off of this deck for a while as the meta changed so much so quickly and wasn't happy with the results I was getting (still lifetime 226-152 with this deck at ~60% win rate), but seeing your 5-0 made me pick it back up again! 3-2 on the first go-round but was admittedly rusty with this.
Had a few questions on your sideboard selections, I noticed your latest builds don't have any spot removal for enchantments/artifacts/creatures (sideboards used to always have the Paths in them) as well as no sweepers (except Ratchet Bomb). Are you content with your current sideboard configuration?
I know we've all run Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Nahiri, Harbinger (back in the day for the RW versions) and now looks like you're throwing in Karn, Scion of Urza. How is Karn working out? Would you say he's best of the 4 options?
Thanks brother - awesome to see your recent finishes!
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-modern-constructed-league-2018-05-15/
My results were:
5-0: 0x
4-1: 3x
3-2: 5x
2-3: 2x
<1-4: 0x
Thoughts are this deck is strong in the meta and does well against a very diverse Modern field. My main questions for you guys is how do we possibly beat Humans? Humans is way too fast and even with 2 Tocatli Honor Guards, 2 Worships in the SB - I'm pretty much an auto-loss to that deck everytime where I don't even steal a game against them. How does regular D&T or this deck possibly fight a deck with flyers, interactive cards, and more explosive starts than ours?
I'm glad to hear it treated you pretty well.
Humans is not favored preboard, tho it is possible to win with things like a t1 chalice on the play, fast smasher, or displacer+ dismember getting there. Postboard, much like affinity, it gets much much better. With an abundance of removal, 3 tocatli, and worship the matchup becomes good. You mentioned your board is different than mine and I wonder how much that contributes to our win% discrepancy. Mind sharing your board?
Oh and Karn is just the go to grind slot. He's easier to cast than something like Gideon and can even be played through a blood moon. If you want a sb grindy walker slot, he's your man.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
The big difference between your builds, aside from that, comes in the sideboard.
1 Cast Out vs. 1 Ixalan's Binding
1 Declaration in Stone + 1 Karn, Scion of Urza vs 2 Declaration in Stone
I'm still on the Serum Powder Colorless, but I'm glad to see people rocking the WW Death and Staxes.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I'm really curious about the Ixalan's Binding - for 1 extra mana (vs O-Ring, Fiend Hunter, Fairground Warden, Banisher Priest) and no flash (vs Cast Out), not sure why the 1x main and 1x SB. What exactly does the 2nd ability of Ixalan's Binding help against?
I've played probably ~20 Leagues now in the last few weeks. Have yet to get a single 5-0 but plenty of 4-1's and only 1-4 one time and no 0-5's. Probably averaging 3-2 overall which is enough to go infinite via the Friendly Leagues so I'm happy.
My current WW build is here:
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/eldrazi-staxes/?cb=1527818924
Sideboard is actually pretty close to Spiderspace's except I don't own a Karn (waiting for price to go down) so run an Elspeth, Knight-Errant for grinding match-ups. Also, Tocatli Honor Guard was a 3x but now went down to only a 2x so that might explain the variance, but honestly the match-ups Tocatli helps the most in is Merfolk/Humans/D&T and I was still losing a majority of those match-ups with 3 Tocatli's while also starting to lose to UR Storm more than I'd like so I took 1x Tocali for 1x Eidolon. I also kept a Tec Edge in as I started losing to Tron more than I wanted as well.
@Spiderspace,
Perhaps the right question then is what do you side out for Humans? Siding for Merfolk is covered in the original Primer, but Humans didn't exist back then so maybe I'm just siding incorrectly. Also, I noticed you have been putting up great results with a traditional D&T build as well. As a long-time D&T Player myself, I actually have done better with this Death & Staxes build than any traditional D&T variants (lifetime 60% win rate vs >50% for D&T). Which do you think is better positioned right now and do you have a favorite?
EDIT:
Also you said you weren't impressed with 1x Warping Wail - why not? I'm testing 4x Dismember right now, but my time with a 1x Warping Wail was reasonably useful. When it was useful, it was VERY USEFUL (stopping Scapeshift/Living End/Madcap Experiment) and exiling Dark Confidant/Hierarchs/Thing in Ice. I do get though there were also many times where it sat in my hand doing nothing.
FYI - seems like Bertram was watching your video, so he's part of the community.
Yeah, I don't see the upside of Ixalan's Binding overcoming not having flash. I have always liked the 1-of Cast Out main.
I find it very interesting that Matter Reshaper has more or less disappeared in favor of Copter, but that seems reasonable, as it drops the curve, let's Arbiter swing more, and still provides some way to dig through your deck.
If I ran this now, I would most definitely go with Spiderspace's list, except that I am not convinced of the need for Cavern of Souls. The much more Eldrazi-centric build I have listed below doesn't run it and doesn't need it, and I don't think this deck does either. Play smart around counter spells, don't jazz the mana base.
Aggro-combo that doesn't just lose to Chalice isn't seeing a lot of play, so the Spirit isn't as good as the 3rd Tocatli. Karn also seems like a better choice than little Elspeth, but if you don't have $50, I get it. However, I don't know how much that card will drop, as it now sees consistent play in every constructed format where it is legal.
For comparison with another flavor of Prison-Stompy with Eldrazi, this is what I am running right now in the Serum Powder Eldrazi Stompy, which is much less prison-centric in exchange for consistency, card advantage and aggression. These are currently my two favorite decks, though I am also putting together Mono-R Prison, which is not really Stompy at all, but more like Mono-R Prison that won the Birmingham Legacy GP.
4 Eternal Scourge
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Artifacts (9)
4 Serum Powder
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Smuggler’s Copter
4 Dismember
Lands (23)
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Gemstone Caverns
4 Zhalfirin Void
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Mutavault
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Scavenger Grounds
2 Wastes
4 Relic of Progenitus
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Spatial Contortion
2 Gut Shot
3 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Gemstone Caverns
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I do see the possible problem of having all the dismembers and losing to the life loss, but I've really been struggling to find a better removal spell for the deck. warping wail just didn't kill enough and the most relevant sorcery I wanted to counter was good ol uncounterable wrath (supreme verdict). I've tested spatial contortion and it didn't quite do it for me either. so I've been on the 4th dismember.
Reshaper is fine, but I personally don't like it as much as copter. Being able to get through your lands or the wrong half of your deck is vital. Reshaper only goes through 1 card if it dies. Also, having a flier int he worship stall-states is really nice.
In terms of humans, I board very similar to how I might vs affinity subbing stony for tocatli and keeping copter. One thing to note is that I like chalice on the play as you can sometimes just go t1 chalice and win though it's pretty awful otherwise.
The only MU I've been running into with any consistency that is difficult pre and post has actually been G tron. I'm somewhat shocked to see that as the MU used to always be free. I've been testing damping sphere and crucible of worlds in the board, but I'm not sure just yet how it should look. Having sphere and stony feels like it might be overboarding. On a tangentially related note, I've been starting to wonder how much I need the cards that answer blood moon. I've been beating mardu pretty well and can kinda play around/thru moon often, though it can definitely get us.
I like cavern of souls a lot actually. It helps seal up any kinda deck that would counter our stuff and while those decks aren't typically tough, it can matter. We don't have many tools post board to help there, so it's nice having a trump card. Furthermore, I have cast one too many simians off it that have mattered to go back. The only other utility land I'd consider is some kinda LD slot since that would help vs control and tron, but I doubt a 1x does that much.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
The deck is putting up more results: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-modern-constructed-league-2018-06-01 and https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1120627#paper. Toastxp is playing Spider's list but opted to play two Mark of Asylum in the board, I assume to combat the rise of Jeskai decks.
Tocatli Honor Guard seems like a really good additon to combat Humans. It looked impressive when I was watching your Stream Spider.
I'm still not liking my records vs Merfolk/D&T/Humans/fast aggro that's not burn that I'm going to go back to the RW variant for a spin. I think Anger of the Gods + Tocatli Honor Guard can really change the match-up a LOT. I'm in my first League right now with this deck below at 3-0, but will wait until I've done a few more to report back on my findings. Let's get this discussion more active again like the old days!
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/eldrazi-staxes-rw/?cb=1528033450
Long time D&T player here (used to post in the D&T thread somewhat frequently). I had been aware of SpiderSpace's finishes with the deck on MTGO before, but as you all have noticed, the recent finishes brought it back to my attention. I actually thought I could find some more information about it in the D&T thread, but was confused when I couldn't find anything (obviously that has fortunately changed now that I am here haha).
I had been working on GW hatebears for SCG Regionals this past weekend. But after finding this deck, this past week, I got the missing pieces to try it out on MTGO, and have put the deck together on paper. I did some quick testing (mediocre results but great learning experiences) and some crash course learning watching SpiderSpace's Twitch VOD, and decided to take this deck to Regionals yesterday.
This is a write-up of my preparation, testing, tournament, and other tidbits. It's fairly lengthy, but I figure could be of interest to you all.
Looking forward to the discussion! Cheers.
I'm glad to see that my twitch VODS were put to some good use! It sounds like you did some really good work and had pretty great results, all considered. I know it can be hard afterward when you realize you made a punt (did you see that game I had vs bant knightfall?), but it's best to take it on the chin. Everyone can make mistakes, especially at a longer event like that and without much experience with the deck. I've been impressed with the 75 you took, though I've been doing some testing mostly with the board and the 4th dismember before Vegas to see if I can get any valuable information I was missing. I'll likely write up a tournament report of my own afterwards.
Anyway, thanks for sharing your results and I'm glad the deck is treating you well!
EDIT: I'm looking forward to seeing how much representation the deck had at regionals because I know quite a few people who said they were going to take it. I should also note that my win % has gone down quite a bit since the deck has received as much attention as it has. I think people are prepping for us a little more than they used to. I'm down to a still pretty great 68%.Having said that, there's still no other list I'd rather take to Vegas.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
Congrats on the results. Great finish! I only skin down to the bottom but will read your report in detail later. Just wanted to say I'm thrilled with the Finish and more people getting excited about our deck! I have still yet to play a single mirror up to this point... That may not last much longer.
In lifetime league play, I started 10-0 vs Tron. Now I'm 18-7 implying it's become more of 50/50 matchup now. I'm not sure what has changed though or if I should be playing the matchup differently.
Thanks for the response, appreciated!
Regarding the 4th Dismember and sideboard slots, when I tested on MTGO, I actually tried some combination of Cast out and Ixalan's Binding (1/1 split of the two in the main/sideboard). But ultimately for Regionals I ended up going with your exact list. However, after the tournament, I think I have a better idea of why Ixalan's Binding can be so good (over, as someone else had asked, Oblivion Ring for example). In particular, I think it's very good against Mardu Pyromancer and Tron (both of which are less in our favour than we'd like). From what I can tell, the Mardu matchup tends to be close until the opponent pulls ahead with Bedlam Reveler or something. Binding can answer it cleanly, as well as prevent the opponent from chaining multiple Revelers, which is a very real thing and they best way of exploding ahead. I think the same logic applies to Tron, which plays with a lot of redundancy and is centered around a few key threats that we need to handle.
Thank you! I didn't expect to play against the mirror, but I did come across it one time in open play. I think I was the better player, but Tocatli Honor Guard and Displacer made his TKS look pretty bad.. haha.
I've done 5 MTGO Friendly Leagues now reverting back to the RW variants of last year. Currently 16-9 (4x 3-2, 1x 4-1) with the following:
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/eldrazi-staxes-rw/
The 2x Anger of the Gods are well worth the splash in my opinion. When you have Worship-stalled board states, this lets you wipe out an army of Humans/Merfolk/Soul Sisters/Tokens leaving your Smashers/Thought-Knot Seers ready to win instead of waiting for 2x Smuggler's Copter to fly over. The addition of Wear/Tear to the SB I think has also been a welcome addition. Finally, RW splash gets you access to Engineered Explosives, which is better than Ratchet Bomb in almost all instances. Manabase is still questionable, but basically I went back through all of the old discussion threads between Redtwister, Stabil0, and Spiderspace on the subject to try to come up with something that works while keeping as many Horizon Canopys in as possible. The only time the manabase has hurt has been a couple times when I definitely wished an Aether Hub was a Sacred Foundry so I may go ahead and trade the Aether Hub out for a 2nd Sacred Foundry. Other than that, no issues.
Other than that though, I think the WW versions have a lot of great tech and are obviously getting great finishes for a reason so tried to mirror the deck after as much of the recent tournament placing builds as possible (2x Tocatli, 2x Worship, etc). 5 Leagues though is still not a ton of data though so will keep grinding with this in the meantime and report back. If any of the higher skilled players want to take this for a spin, would love to get your thoughts.
Wow, great report. My only quibble is that Stabil0 created the deck, but Spiderpsace has really been it's emissary for several months now, and doing a bang-up job of it too. This is a difficult deck with a pretty steep learning curve. Going 6-3 at an SCG Regionals is very good.
Good point about Ixalan's Binding. Those are matches where you definitely want to stop them from running out threat #2,3,4.
@Stabil0
Welcome back! You playing again or just stopping by?
@Spiderspace
You have been rocking it.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Thanks for the compliment! I really enjoy writing, I usually do a tournament report every time I come back from an event (most of them are formalized and posted in my blog). My apologies about the poor scholarship, at the time I played in the tournament, I had just found this thread, and didn't actually go back to look at the first page.
I was overall satisfied with my play (aside from all the things I thought/realized in retrospect were misplays or wrong decisions). Thankfully the deck is mostly comprised of cards I've played with an extensive amount already. But I am still getting a feel for it - compared to D&T and 4c Loam (with which I've played with Chalice), this deck has a much higher ceiling for doing unfair things, which demands a different approach and skillset when it comes to evaluating hands to keep/mulligan.
= = =
Here is the SCG Regionals Top 8 metagame (I compiled the data and made this figure). One minor surprise I had was how well colourless Eldrazi did - most of them were the Serum Powder/Chalice version of the deck. Their strong results are a good indication of the current strength and position of unfair SSG/Chalice/TKS/Reality Smasher. This is a good sign, since Thalia Stompy is built on the same premise. Compared to that, I think playing cards like Thalia/Arbiter and having white sideboard cards ought to be much stronger. All I'm saying is - I think these are all signs further pointing towards this deck being a good one in the current format.
@bmchu168
At first I was mildly skeptical, but after thinking about it some more, I am intrigued with the idea of a WR version of the deck. The major thing the deck gains is a much better Mardu Pyromancer matchup (as well as better matchup against Humans and Affinity, though we have a plan/tools for that), which is one of our weaker matchups overall. Though this comes at the cost of a weaker manabase of course - maybe. I think Horizon Canopy is one of our strongest lands (unfair decks tend to have a lot of "air" in them, which Canopy helps with), and losing out on them is a real cost. On the other hand, filterlands might be a great tool, since they provide colourless mana as well as singlehandedly provide two coloured mana.
I think it's a good avenue to look into, though my instinct is 1) there isn't enough room to really take advantage of many red cards and 2) the manabase being slightly shakier might not ultimately be worth it. Could be wrong though.
So If you could go back and play another similarly large tournament at the moment, how would you change the SB specifically? I feel that everything in my SB other than the cast out/c purge is locked in (maybe the 2 dec in stone vs 1 r bomb 1 dec split is a thing). I was slightly concerned about G tron, but I think we still have game there, and I feel like I've been beating mardu pyro pretty decently and they're the main blood moon deck. I'm not sure I need SB answers to the card beyond just tight plays though both cards do more than just answer blood moon.
Also I've been testing spatial contortion which has been fine, but I think I'm probably gonna stick with 4x dismember MD.
P.S. I'm not super about binding.
EDIT: I should mention I've been testing the following cards in that 2x SB slot:tectonic edges, aven mindcensor, sorcerous spyglass, crucible of worlds, and damping sphere post board and nothing has been particularly great. tec edge was probably the best thing.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance