Awesome. I'll give it a shot as 1 or 2 of - let me know how it goes for you guys. Definitely like the value Matter Reshaper brings though (traded a Matter Reshaper with another Matter Reshaper playing Eldrazi Tron - his picked up an Expedition Map, mine picked up a Stony Silence, which was awesome).
After playing over 260 MTGO League and 2 Man Queues matches (.61% win rate), these are the decks I'm below .500 on. Does this look similar/match what everyone generally views as Unfavorable Matchups for our deck? Anyone view these as Favorable in their experience? Why or why not?
For me it's like this:
<30% : (Abzan) Company in all variants (by far the worst record)
<50% : DnT (small sample size), Knightfall (small sample size), Go wide aggro variants (humans etc.)
about 50% : Blood Moon variants (Skred / Sun and Moon), lantern (small sample size), Affinity, Valakut variants, Elves, turns (small sample size)
50%-65% : BGx, Eldrazi Tron, Bant Eldrazi, Merfolk (small sample size)
>70% : Burn, regular Tron, Graveyardcombo variants (Dredge, Living End, Goryo), Amulet Titan (small sample size), UWx Control, Grixis, random, Death Shadow variants
clean 100%: Ad nauseam, Cherioos (small sample size)
So I see our biggest differences in Death Shadow and Company decks.
DS seems like a good MU to me, while I have trouble beating all sorts of Company decks. From Bant Spirits to Knightfall to Abzan Company. You don't seem to have such troubles against them.
HI Stabil0,
Definitely interesting seeing your results. Abzan is bad but I'm 5-6 so still winnable. Why do you think your Death's Shadow match-up is so favorable? That's probably the most stark difference I see in your results. Would love to hear what you think. Is it Chalice doing major work for you?
Never won a match against Elves (only 3 matches though). D&T, Merfolk, and Affinity are both 35% across 10-15 games each.
The rest are close enough in range and line up with what I am seeing so that's helpful.
Well I think that most of our cards match up pretty good against DS. Chalice is certainly very helpful but many others are good as well like Arbiter, Thalia, RIP, Displacer, TKS, Purge/EE (against Jund)/Path. It also depends on the version of DS. The grixis one that is popular atm is easier than DS Jund for example. (Since Dismember is live g1 and Smasher trumps Tasigur and they can't get rid of RIP).
I think that especially Elves, Merfolk and Affinity got better with the inclusion of red.
Actually, you're right. This could just be a classification issue where Grixis (Snapcaster, Tasigur, Delvers etc) I classify under Control for my tracking/analysis even if the deck runs Death's Shadow. Grixis is an easy match-up and has been propping up my Control wins for sure. My Death's Shadow numbers are strictly the Jund and Abzan versions where I'm 1-6. Good point.
I am close to Stabil0's results, and Grixis DS is definitely pretty positive (4-2). I also don't think I have dropped a match to Burn yet, something like 7-0. Affinity has gotten a lot better, I am 3-0 since adding Anger, Cast Out, and Nahiri (I have used her to exile their lands, which is good fun, as well as their creatures.)
The go-wide decks remain our issue. Has anyone had any success since adding Anger of the Gods? I've played a single match against those decks since I added the Angers!
Elves 1-1 (Chalice and GQ for their Caverns in my win)
Merfolk 0-3
Bant Counters Knightfall: 0-1 (Only match with Anger against Eli Kassis at the Open)
Abzan Company: 0-3
BW EnT: 0-2
Too sick to play tonight, so no testing with Obligator. I agree Matter Reshaper is awesome, Obligator is the only thing that feels like it might be better. It is certainly a more aggressive threat and it feels like it should be stronger late game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
@bmchu168
Grixis DS is probably the best for us but I have a positive record against other variants as well. I think they are favorable too. (even though I haven't played against them as much).
@redtsister
Since Anger:
3-4 elves
1-0 merfolk
1-1 DnT
3-3 Affinity
1-3 Abzan Company
1-3 Knightfall
So small sample size. It definitely feels better with anger. But the Company decks are still tough.
So your meta is two control decks, two/three big mana decks, a value midrange deck and an aggo/combo deck.
I think Aven Mindcensor looks pretty good in this meta. Good against Tron, Scapeshift, Titan, Storm and Control. So maybe a copy MD and one or two in the board.
Celestial Purge doesn't look too good against these decks I think. But you might want the second RIP.
I'm sceptical about MD defense grid. Has it been good for you?
Personally I would probably go with the following SB:
2 Rip
2 Grafdiggers
2 Stony
1 Cast Out
3 Path
2 Aven
3 x
Edit: you probably don't want second Rip actually.
Obligator
So I played two leagues with Obligators now. 3 MD instead of Reshaper. Went 4-1 twice. But had some easy MUs. I did quite like Obligator. Sometimes the haste was important, for example to finish a down-ticked Liliana or to increase the pressure. It was fantastic against E tron. Got to kill Ballista like Redtwister mentioned and got to steal a Smasher. Could eat a Devoted Druid against Elves as well. But it was definitely worse against Abzan than Reshaper would have been. Lingering Souls was rough. And against Elves Reshaper would have been better too.
I think two is sufficient of this effect, so I will continue with a 2-1 Obligator Reshaper split.
Awesome Stabilo! I am only running one but as a Singleton it hasn't come up enough for me to figure out if it's good or not. Thanks for testing ahead for us! I'll try the 2-1 split also.
So I played in the Modern Challenge yesterday. I went 4-3 beating E tron, E tron, Uw control, Grixis DS and loosing to Abzan Company, UR Blood Moon, RW go wide aggro brew. Pretty much as you would expect the MUs to play out. I could have definitely beaten the RW deck but I flooded pretty badly. The Blood Moon deck was pretty rough. Remand into Blood Moon is very strong against us. I lost g2 against Abzan Company despite wrathing his board twice. E wit and Dusk/ Dawn were too much to handle.
Obligator was ridiculously good against Eldrazi Tron and good against DS as well (killed a DS with it) but quite poor against the other decks I played against. I think he mostly improves our good MUs while not really helping in our poorer ones. He can also be a bit clunky since you want to cast him on 5 preferably. But he is powerful.
I think what this deck needs in another powerful cheap creature/spell. Either disruptive (along the lines of Arbiter / Thalia) or proactive (like SFM). I might try out Eldrazi Mimic to have a T1 play with Temple or maybe Walking Ballista. They don't seem great to me though.
@Stabil0
Good try, some bad match-ups. That Top 16 was way more varied than the Top 32 for the Open. Any gaffs in your losses? Other lessons?
Yeah, I can definitely see Obligator being "win-more". I have been playing it a bit in testing and the 3/1 is my main complaint, plus, as you say, casting it for 3 instead of 5 feels like I wasted it somehow. However, every time I cast it for 5, it feels pretty game-winning. I beat Vizier Combo with it twice on Saturday, since they can board stall with very little to do with their mana, so stealing their one threat got me over them.
Without jumping the shark, as I am going to do below, it depends on what kind of disruption you want and in place of what: Vryn Wingmare piles on the taxing and flies, but it is a 2/1 and I don't know if that taxing is what we need more of. Trinisphere is quite disruptive to people not us.
Looking at viable cards from classic GW Hatebears and Modern BW\GW\WW DnT lists, there isn't much that we aren't running, I am afraid. Not that is efficient, at least.
@everyone
It is interesting seeing the number of people playing maindeck graveyard hate: 2 RoP in Stevens' main and a total of 4 RoP + 2 Grafdigger's Cage in his 75; 4 in the BW Eldrazi GP Kobe deck; Michael Braverman's 10th place BW Eldrazi had 4 RoP main, and 2 RiP in the side!
One thing bout 4 RoP, is that you have draw spells now. Maybe the strategy isn't increased removal so much as increased GY hate with some combo of RiP and Grafidgger's Cage?
Is the Eldrazi and staxes strategy playable in a different, more colorless vein? Is there an even more Stax-ish build with Thorn of Amethyst and Trinisphere going deeper on the colorless mana, maybe ending up with Tron, but still being an acceleration deck with SSG? Can you even play Tron lands without Maps or do they just kick you out of a tournament for being stupid?
Yeah the format is extremly diverse atm. Which is fantastic but actually not the best for this deck or other kinds of taxing decks in general. If the strategies you are facing are too different one from another then it is difficult to find a way to "hate them out".
That's actually a point I wanted to point out since a while. The more variety there is in the format the harder taxing decks have it since you have trouble finding their common weakness. That is also part of the reason why blue based control decks have a hard time in Modern. All the different threats and strategies require too many different answers. That is also why discard is so powerful - because it is effective against every deck, no matter what your opponent is on.
And this deck is a control deck as well, in the way that it proactively tries to disrupt the opponent.
And the solution to this dilemma is to be more proactive and intrinsically powerful yourself and to include more internal synergy rather than try to disrupt the opposing deck.
And this deck here is designed in this way. All the Eldrazi (TKS, Smasher, Displacer) are just powerful threats on their own. Vryn Wingmare for example is not. It can be really good in the right meta. It is played in Vintage DnT, which definitely speaks for its potential power. But it really requires to meta to be uniformely susceptible to this effect. Chalice of the void is another great example. It can be ridiculously good if the meta is weak to it but completly unplayable if there are too many different CMCs running around. But a card like TKS is just always going to be good.
We see this with de BW Eldrazi and Taxes deck which sees much more success than any other kind of Death and Taxes. And the BW EnT deck is the most intrinsically powerful one. For example it plays TKS which is just a very powerful card on its own - no matter what your opponent is on (once again because of discard). And it also has more internal synergy than many DnT decks because of Wasteland Strangler combos. At the moment we see BW Eldrazi, instead of BW Eldrazi and Taxes decks, having success, which also indicates that they play either better answers to the formats decks or are intrinsically more powerful. In this case it is definitely the first. They play discard which is very good atm (Discard gets worse if traditional BGx is big in the format and traditional Jund isn't T1 for the first time in a long time) and they play MD Relic which just happens to be good against the current meta.
(Btw I also consider GW DnT better than many other DnT variants in the current meta - it offers more intrinsicall power with CoCo and Noble)
So a card must either be powerful on its own or be very good against the meta. Chalice is a broad enough answer to many decks atm that I think it is a good card to play - even if it got weaker since CoCo decks are on the rise. Stoneforge for example hits both parts. It is powerful with Batterskull but it can also be a good answer vs a specific part of the meta by tutoring up Jitte.
Then there is also the part of efficiency. Little Thalias body/stats are just good enough so that she is playable in Modern, even if there are many creature decks running around. But Aven Mindcensor doesn't pass this threshold while for example big Thalia does and is more generally useful.
So the weaker our disruption is the better our procative gameplan has to be.
A card I'm interested in atm is Gaddock Teeg. Stops CoCo / Chord and has utility against Control/Scapeshift and various others.
Green would also bring a bunch of other interesting cards like Dromoka's Command and various SB options.
But the mana requirements on these two is tough.
I also would like to get the deck as lean as possible and to function smoothly. It feels a bit clunky at times to me. This speaks for Reshaper in place of Obligator and for Ballista. Or maybe for a MD cast out...
@redtwister
I think disruption has to happen T1 or T2 to be relevant. Without actual sol lands it is not possible to make Trinisphere work IMO. I also think that Thorn of Amethyst is just too dead against many decks to be maindeckable. I think you just built an inconsistent Eldrazi Tron deck there. I think if you would want to go for a colorless Staxes deck then I would include the full 8 Tec Edge / GQ and probably some Revokers as well. But I don't think that the Modern card pool supports it well enough. But you might be right that additonal removal might not be the best way to combat the format atm.
@Stabil0
No, you're right. It wouldn't work, but i think we all recognize certain issues and we are trying to find ways to address them.
If I was to go deep WG, I think I would do the following (and boy do I wish Elvish Spirit Guide was Modern legal). The deck is obviously committed to some GW, but never GG. Initial start is 12 G sources, 14 W sources, with a possible 15/17 on the draw.
Mandatory Cards: Qasali Pridemage is so good that it is the only GW creature I must have main. I wold immediately take it over Reshaper and I might even drop THC and Mindcensor. Enchantment/Artifact destruction, low CMC and exalted is amazing.
The sideboard Gaddock Teeg - Stops the casting of CoCo, Chord, 4 mana Wrath, Engineered Explosives, Karn, Ugin, Scapeshift, Chalice (not that we use Teeg and Chalice at the same time), Worship, etc. (Sadly, Walking Ballista is a creature.)
Dromoka's Command. Not sure about the numbers, but against most decks, Command is an auto 2-for-1 in our favor.
Other Gx options: Scavenging Ooze - The only 1G card I would be excited about. This card, however, requires using G all the time. On the other hand, it would offset Canopy damage.
Renegade Rallier - I think this is easier to cast than Eternal Witness, but it also essentially only targets lands, Thalia, Arbiter, Chalice on 0, Teeg, and Pridemage. Now, those are some value cards, so it isn't nothing, but I don't like it that much.
Cards you could mention but I don't think work: Noble Hierarch - This would have to replace SSG and I don't see us having G on turn 1 reliably, plus it actually slows our progression.
Voice of Resurgence - I mean, it's a creature people hate to deal with. I don't think it is as much Hate as bear.
Speaking of the green splash: http://i.imgur.com/rLEI9Yv.png
Crucible of Worlds on a stick has just been spoiled. Recurring GQ and Canopies seem sweet. Definitely has potential even if it is a bit slow.
Going on vacation for a bit, won't post until July.
Played some terrible MTG tonight. Lost outrageous games to GR Tron and Eldrazi Tron, but I beat Merfolk.
vs. GR Tron, turns out that if they have 3 Pyroclasm in a row in their opening hand, it is hard to keep an Arbiter resolved.
vs. Eldrazi Tron, the new build from Todd Stevens using Wurmcoil Engine tilts the match in their favor.
vs. GR Tron, if you have two possible turn 1 plays, Arbiter vs. Stony, what would you play first? I chose Stony and got burned.
Relevant notes: Dromoka's Command was insanely good against Merfolk. Completely tilted the match with fight and +1/+1. Also, great way to fight Anger of the Gods and Pyroclasm.
Qasali Pridemage felt very good. I didn't really miss Matter Reshaper too much, but that card is still very solid, but it was the only thing I could see taking out.
Mana was okay, but needs tweaking. Could see 1 Wooded Bastion or even a 1-of Stirring Wildwood over 1 Aether Hub. No WW or GG, and I didn't often want to play my GW spells turn 2, so much as turn 3/4, but definitely wanted GW by then.
Nice to see you testing out the green splash redtwister. And have good vacations
Dromoka's seems very maindeckable to me. Even though Qasali is good I think that one or maybe two should be sufficient MD.
I think you could play razorverge thicket in place of Aether hub. 15 colorless sources seems fine. I have been playing with two fastlands and it was alright for me (RW though).
Personally I have played two leagues since the Modern Challange with RW. I went 4-1 twice. I gave Mindcensor a try again but I lost the deciding game against Eldrazi Tron because of it. So I'm off it again. I'm on the 2-1 Reshaper/Obligator split and am fine with it.
For the mana I play: 4 GQ, 4 Temple, 4 BF, 3 Gemstone, 3 Plains, 3 Sacred Foundry, 2 Canopies, 2 Inspiring Vantage. It works out quite nicely.
Hi Guys,
Starting to see the Hour of Devastation spoilers coming out - anything we're excited about or NOT excited about (still mad at you Fatal Push)?
Yes, I kind of love the new Nicol Bolas, but agree not seeing much that look Modern playable.
Slightly off-topic, but for the MTGO players, do you guys generally open your Treasure Chest prizes? This is my first Modern deck I've been able to go "infinite" with 62% win rate as opposed to my looonnngg-time go-to decks of Hatebears or regular D&T that would be around 54% - 58%. I have always opened every Treasure Chest and my good performances allow me to replenish tickets and keep going even when I have rough stretches in League play. However, I've also heard arguments against opening them and simply trading them in for tickets. What are you guys thoughts and what do you guys generally do with your treasure chests?
I've been rocking the Selesnya version you guys posted. Is the new Crucible on a stick going in the Main, or the side? over which card? Thank you all! ...for the continued support of Death & Staxes
Selesnya version I think has its merits. I played a few practice games in MTGO. The cons I see so far are:
-No Anger of the Gods (seriously that card gives us a massive boost against all of the decks we are horrible against)
-Can't hard cast Simian Spirit Guide. It's not important often, but sometimes you do want him as a chump.
-Mana base. There are definitely tweaks that can be done, but for the most part even having 5 cards that require GW - Dromoka's Command 1-3, Qasali Pridemage 1-2 plus sideboard cards like Gaddock Teeg, etc) puts a strain on the manabase that just by variance alone can screw us in games that wouldn't be an issue with the RW version as the only cards we need to support are Anger of the Gods and Nahiri that 4x Simian Spirit Guides can support while SSGs can't support Selesnaya casting costs.
Andrew/Redtwister,
What are your builds looking like these days?
After playing over 260 MTGO League and 2 Man Queues matches (.61% win rate), these are the decks I'm below .500 on. Does this look similar/match what everyone generally views as Unfavorable Matchups for our deck? Anyone view these as Favorable in their experience? Why or why not?
Creature Toolbox Combo Variations
Merfolk
Affinity
Death & Taxes
Death's Shadow
Elves
2 OR LESS MATCHES PLAYED AGAINST THE FOLLOWING:
Bant Spirits
UB Mill
Restore Balance
Slivers
Faeries
Lantern Control
Grand Architect Aggro
Tezzeret Control
For me it's like this:
<30% : (Abzan) Company in all variants (by far the worst record)
<50% : DnT (small sample size), Knightfall (small sample size), Go wide aggro variants (humans etc.)
about 50% : Blood Moon variants (Skred / Sun and Moon), lantern (small sample size), Affinity, Valakut variants, Elves, turns (small sample size)
50%-65% : BGx, Eldrazi Tron, Bant Eldrazi, Merfolk (small sample size)
>70% : Burn, regular Tron, Graveyardcombo variants (Dredge, Living End, Goryo), Amulet Titan (small sample size), UWx Control, Grixis, random, Death Shadow variants
clean 100%: Ad nauseam, Cherioos (small sample size)
So I see our biggest differences in Death Shadow and Company decks.
DS seems like a good MU to me, while I have trouble beating all sorts of Company decks. From Bant Spirits to Knightfall to Abzan Company. You don't seem to have such troubles against them.
Definitely interesting seeing your results. Abzan is bad but I'm 5-6 so still winnable. Why do you think your Death's Shadow match-up is so favorable? That's probably the most stark difference I see in your results. Would love to hear what you think. Is it Chalice doing major work for you?
Never won a match against Elves (only 3 matches though). D&T, Merfolk, and Affinity are both 35% across 10-15 games each.
The rest are close enough in range and line up with what I am seeing so that's helpful.
I think that especially Elves, Merfolk and Affinity got better with the inclusion of red.
The go-wide decks remain our issue. Has anyone had any success since adding Anger of the Gods? I've played a single match against those decks since I added the Angers!
Elves 1-1 (Chalice and GQ for their Caverns in my win)
Merfolk 0-3
Bant Counters Knightfall: 0-1 (Only match with Anger against Eli Kassis at the Open)
Abzan Company: 0-3
BW EnT: 0-2
Too sick to play tonight, so no testing with Obligator. I agree Matter Reshaper is awesome, Obligator is the only thing that feels like it might be better. It is certainly a more aggressive threat and it feels like it should be stronger late game.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Grixis DS is probably the best for us but I have a positive record against other variants as well. I think they are favorable too. (even though I haven't played against them as much).
@redtsister
Since Anger:
3-4 elves
1-0 merfolk
1-1 DnT
3-3 Affinity
1-3 Abzan Company
1-3 Knightfall
So small sample size. It definitely feels better with anger. But the Company decks are still tough.
So your meta is two control decks, two/three big mana decks, a value midrange deck and an aggo/combo deck.
I think Aven Mindcensor looks pretty good in this meta. Good against Tron, Scapeshift, Titan, Storm and Control. So maybe a copy MD and one or two in the board.
Celestial Purge doesn't look too good against these decks I think. But you might want the second RIP.
I'm sceptical about MD defense grid. Has it been good for you?
Personally I would probably go with the following SB:
2 Rip
2 Grafdiggers
2 Stony
1 Cast Out
3 Path
2 Aven
3 x
Edit: you probably don't want second Rip actually.
Obligator
So I played two leagues with Obligators now. 3 MD instead of Reshaper. Went 4-1 twice. But had some easy MUs. I did quite like Obligator. Sometimes the haste was important, for example to finish a down-ticked Liliana or to increase the pressure. It was fantastic against E tron. Got to kill Ballista like Redtwister mentioned and got to steal a Smasher. Could eat a Devoted Druid against Elves as well. But it was definitely worse against Abzan than Reshaper would have been. Lingering Souls was rough. And against Elves Reshaper would have been better too.
I think two is sufficient of this effect, so I will continue with a 2-1 Obligator Reshaper split.
Obligator was ridiculously good against Eldrazi Tron and good against DS as well (killed a DS with it) but quite poor against the other decks I played against. I think he mostly improves our good MUs while not really helping in our poorer ones. He can also be a bit clunky since you want to cast him on 5 preferably. But he is powerful.
I think what this deck needs in another powerful cheap creature/spell. Either disruptive (along the lines of Arbiter / Thalia) or proactive (like SFM). I might try out Eldrazi Mimic to have a T1 play with Temple or maybe Walking Ballista. They don't seem great to me though.
Good try, some bad match-ups. That Top 16 was way more varied than the Top 32 for the Open. Any gaffs in your losses? Other lessons?
Yeah, I can definitely see Obligator being "win-more". I have been playing it a bit in testing and the 3/1 is my main complaint, plus, as you say, casting it for 3 instead of 5 feels like I wasted it somehow. However, every time I cast it for 5, it feels pretty game-winning. I beat Vizier Combo with it twice on Saturday, since they can board stall with very little to do with their mana, so stealing their one threat got me over them.
Without jumping the shark, as I am going to do below, it depends on what kind of disruption you want and in place of what:
Vryn Wingmare piles on the taxing and flies, but it is a 2/1 and I don't know if that taxing is what we need more of.
Trinisphere is quite disruptive to people not us.
Looking at viable cards from classic GW Hatebears and Modern BW\GW\WW DnT lists, there isn't much that we aren't running, I am afraid. Not that is efficient, at least.
@everyone
It is interesting seeing the number of people playing maindeck graveyard hate: 2 RoP in Stevens' main and a total of 4 RoP + 2 Grafdigger's Cage in his 75; 4 in the BW Eldrazi GP Kobe deck; Michael Braverman's 10th place BW Eldrazi had 4 RoP main, and 2 RiP in the side!
One thing bout 4 RoP, is that you have draw spells now. Maybe the strategy isn't increased removal so much as increased GY hate with some combo of RiP and Grafidgger's Cage?
Is the Eldrazi and staxes strategy playable in a different, more colorless vein? Is there an even more Stax-ish build with Thorn of Amethyst and Trinisphere going deeper on the colorless mana, maybe ending up with Tron, but still being an acceleration deck with SSG? Can you even play Tron lands without Maps or do they just kick you out of a tournament for being stupid?
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Planeswalkers 2
1 Karn Liberated
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Wastes
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Gemstone Caverns
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Trinisphere
Spells 2
2 Dismember
2 All Is Dust
Meh, I think I just jumped off the deep end.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
That's actually a point I wanted to point out since a while. The more variety there is in the format the harder taxing decks have it since you have trouble finding their common weakness. That is also part of the reason why blue based control decks have a hard time in Modern. All the different threats and strategies require too many different answers. That is also why discard is so powerful - because it is effective against every deck, no matter what your opponent is on.
And this deck is a control deck as well, in the way that it proactively tries to disrupt the opponent.
And the solution to this dilemma is to be more proactive and intrinsically powerful yourself and to include more internal synergy rather than try to disrupt the opposing deck.
And this deck here is designed in this way. All the Eldrazi (TKS, Smasher, Displacer) are just powerful threats on their own. Vryn Wingmare for example is not. It can be really good in the right meta. It is played in Vintage DnT, which definitely speaks for its potential power. But it really requires to meta to be uniformely susceptible to this effect. Chalice of the void is another great example. It can be ridiculously good if the meta is weak to it but completly unplayable if there are too many different CMCs running around. But a card like TKS is just always going to be good.
We see this with de BW Eldrazi and Taxes deck which sees much more success than any other kind of Death and Taxes. And the BW EnT deck is the most intrinsically powerful one. For example it plays TKS which is just a very powerful card on its own - no matter what your opponent is on (once again because of discard). And it also has more internal synergy than many DnT decks because of Wasteland Strangler combos. At the moment we see BW Eldrazi, instead of BW Eldrazi and Taxes decks, having success, which also indicates that they play either better answers to the formats decks or are intrinsically more powerful. In this case it is definitely the first. They play discard which is very good atm (Discard gets worse if traditional BGx is big in the format and traditional Jund isn't T1 for the first time in a long time) and they play MD Relic which just happens to be good against the current meta.
(Btw I also consider GW DnT better than many other DnT variants in the current meta - it offers more intrinsicall power with CoCo and Noble)
So a card must either be powerful on its own or be very good against the meta. Chalice is a broad enough answer to many decks atm that I think it is a good card to play - even if it got weaker since CoCo decks are on the rise. Stoneforge for example hits both parts. It is powerful with Batterskull but it can also be a good answer vs a specific part of the meta by tutoring up Jitte.
Then there is also the part of efficiency. Little Thalias body/stats are just good enough so that she is playable in Modern, even if there are many creature decks running around. But Aven Mindcensor doesn't pass this threshold while for example big Thalia does and is more generally useful.
So the weaker our disruption is the better our procative gameplan has to be.
A card I'm interested in atm is Gaddock Teeg. Stops CoCo / Chord and has utility against Control/Scapeshift and various others.
Green would also bring a bunch of other interesting cards like Dromoka's Command and various SB options.
But the mana requirements on these two is tough.
I also would like to get the deck as lean as possible and to function smoothly. It feels a bit clunky at times to me. This speaks for Reshaper in place of Obligator and for Ballista. Or maybe for a MD cast out...
@redtwister
I think disruption has to happen T1 or T2 to be relevant. Without actual sol lands it is not possible to make Trinisphere work IMO. I also think that Thorn of Amethyst is just too dead against many decks to be maindeckable. I think you just built an inconsistent Eldrazi Tron deck there. I think if you would want to go for a colorless Staxes deck then I would include the full 8 Tec Edge / GQ and probably some Revokers as well. But I don't think that the Modern card pool supports it well enough. But you might be right that additonal removal might not be the best way to combat the format atm.
No, you're right. It wouldn't work, but i think we all recognize certain issues and we are trying to find ways to address them.
If I was to go deep WG, I think I would do the following (and boy do I wish Elvish Spirit Guide was Modern legal). The deck is obviously committed to some GW, but never GG. Initial start is 12 G sources, 14 W sources, with a possible 15/17 on the draw.
Mandatory Cards:
Qasali Pridemage is so good that it is the only GW creature I must have main. I wold immediately take it over Reshaper and I might even drop THC and Mindcensor. Enchantment/Artifact destruction, low CMC and exalted is amazing.
4 Horizon Canopy. 'Nuff said.
The sideboard
Gaddock Teeg - Stops the casting of CoCo, Chord, 4 mana Wrath, Engineered Explosives, Karn, Ugin, Scapeshift, Chalice (not that we use Teeg and Chalice at the same time), Worship, etc. (Sadly, Walking Ballista is a creature.)
Dromoka's Command. Not sure about the numbers, but against most decks, Command is an auto 2-for-1 in our favor.
Other Gx options:
Scavenging Ooze - The only 1G card I would be excited about. This card, however, requires using G all the time. On the other hand, it would offset Canopy damage.
Renegade Rallier - I think this is easier to cast than Eternal Witness, but it also essentially only targets lands, Thalia, Arbiter, Chalice on 0, Teeg, and Pridemage. Now, those are some value cards, so it isn't nothing, but I don't like it that much.
Choke for Control and Combo.
Cards you could mention but I don't think work:
Noble Hierarch - This would have to replace SSG and I don't see us having G on turn 1 reliably, plus it actually slows our progression.
Voice of Resurgence - I mean, it's a creature people hate to deal with. I don't think it is as much Hate as bear.
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Aven Mindcensor
2 Plains
4 Brushland
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Aether Hub
3 Gemstone Caverns
4 Horizon Canopy
2 Temple Garden
Spells (7)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Dismember
3 Stony Silence
3 Rest in Peace
3 Path to Exile
3 Dromoka's Command
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Cast out
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
http://i.imgur.com/rLEI9Yv.png
Crucible of Worlds on a stick has just been spoiled. Recurring GQ and Canopies seem sweet. Definitely has potential even if it is a bit slow.
Ramunap Excavator 2G
Creature - Naga Cleric 3/2
You may play land cards from your graveyard.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Played some terrible MTG tonight. Lost outrageous games to GR Tron and Eldrazi Tron, but I beat Merfolk.
vs. GR Tron, turns out that if they have 3 Pyroclasm in a row in their opening hand, it is hard to keep an Arbiter resolved.
vs. Eldrazi Tron, the new build from Todd Stevens using Wurmcoil Engine tilts the match in their favor.
vs. GR Tron, if you have two possible turn 1 plays, Arbiter vs. Stony, what would you play first? I chose Stony and got burned.
Relevant notes:
Dromoka's Command was insanely good against Merfolk. Completely tilted the match with fight and +1/+1. Also, great way to fight Anger of the Gods and Pyroclasm.
Qasali Pridemage felt very good. I didn't really miss Matter Reshaper too much, but that card is still very solid, but it was the only thing I could see taking out.
Choke felt unnecessary. Making it Command #3.
Cast Out was still very good.
Mana was okay, but needs tweaking. Could see 1 Wooded Bastion or even a 1-of Stirring Wildwood over 1 Aether Hub. No WW or GG, and I didn't often want to play my GW spells turn 2, so much as turn 3/4, but definitely wanted GW by then.
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Lands (25)
2 Plains
4 Brushland
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Aether Hub
3 Gemstone Caverns
4 Horizon Canopy
2 Temple Garden
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Dismember
3 Stony Silence
3 Rest in Peace
2 Path to Exile
2 Dromoka's Command
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Cast out
1 Choke
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Dromoka's seems very maindeckable to me. Even though Qasali is good I think that one or maybe two should be sufficient MD.
I think you could play razorverge thicket in place of Aether hub. 15 colorless sources seems fine. I have been playing with two fastlands and it was alright for me (RW though).
Personally I have played two leagues since the Modern Challange with RW. I went 4-1 twice. I gave Mindcensor a try again but I lost the deciding game against Eldrazi Tron because of it. So I'm off it again. I'm on the 2-1 Reshaper/Obligator split and am fine with it.
For the mana I play: 4 GQ, 4 Temple, 4 BF, 3 Gemstone, 3 Plains, 3 Sacred Foundry, 2 Canopies, 2 Inspiring Vantage. It works out quite nicely.
Starting to see the Hour of Devastation spoilers coming out - anything we're excited about or NOT excited about (still mad at you Fatal Push)?
Slightly off-topic, but for the MTGO players, do you guys generally open your Treasure Chest prizes? This is my first Modern deck I've been able to go "infinite" with 62% win rate as opposed to my looonnngg-time go-to decks of Hatebears or regular D&T that would be around 54% - 58%. I have always opened every Treasure Chest and my good performances allow me to replenish tickets and keep going even when I have rough stretches in League play. However, I've also heard arguments against opening them and simply trading them in for tickets. What are you guys thoughts and what do you guys generally do with your treasure chests?
I tend to sell the treasure chests..
@Andrew_SoCal_87
Sweet! How does it play out for you? I would probably play 2 in the main over Reshaper.
-No Anger of the Gods (seriously that card gives us a massive boost against all of the decks we are horrible against)
-Can't hard cast Simian Spirit Guide. It's not important often, but sometimes you do want him as a chump.
-Mana base. There are definitely tweaks that can be done, but for the most part even having 5 cards that require GW - Dromoka's Command 1-3, Qasali Pridemage 1-2 plus sideboard cards like Gaddock Teeg, etc) puts a strain on the manabase that just by variance alone can screw us in games that wouldn't be an issue with the RW version as the only cards we need to support are Anger of the Gods and Nahiri that 4x Simian Spirit Guides can support while SSGs can't support Selesnaya casting costs.
Andrew/Redtwister,
What are your builds looking like these days?