I played a couple more games and Rugged Prairie really came back to bite me multiple times. Had to ship good hands because they were missing white. I lost one game against Scapeshift because I had to GQ myself to get white for Arbiter and then couldn't attack his mana.
For example something like: Arbiter, Thalia, GQ, Rugged Prairie, SSG, Temple, Smasher gets from fantastic to really risky.
So only a small sample size but since it does not look too promising to me in theory (my previous post) I will reduce the number.
I'm leaving one in for the moment but two seems like too much IMO. But as you said SpiderSpace I don't know what the next best alternative is. Maybe just Foundry nr. 4 or Aether Hub? @redtwister: We are still on 16 (17) colorless sources with zero (or one) Rugged Prairie in the deck. I think that is sufficient. Especially since in the first couple of turns we are more likely to play Hatebears than Eldrazi. It's always nice to have more, especially since we are aggressively using GQ but I think the potential downside is bigger.
Very good points on Wear Tear.
I think a 2/1 split with Mindcensor is perfectly reasonable or just having him in the board. I'm just personally not that big of a fan. Chord creature combos are really popular atm so this would speak for him.
Spiderspace, stabilo, and Redtwister - been on break for a few weeks, but am loving the new RW development. What are you guys thinking in terms of manabase now? What are your lands? For me, I have a singleton copy of Cavern and Horizon Canopy so have been intrigued seeing your debate on which slot it fills. Rugged Prairie is also interesting. I prefer Aether Hub and more Foundries, but I haven't played any games with the new RW focused manabase yet.
Let me know what you guys got currently in terms of manabase and I'll give it a whirl. Thanks all - loving the new tech!!
I've been having more trouble with control decks than with flooding. I think I'm in the redtwister camp for cavern vs canopy right now. I've been playing with 2x aether hub and I think it feels better. I haven't been stuck on it yet and it has even helped pay for dismember and make EE better from the board.
@bmchu168, we talked about harsh mentor about a month and a half ago or so and we mostly didn't like it I think. It might be better positioned with counter company and affinity both being pretty prevalent right now, but I wonder how good a slot it is MD and it seems like something like anger of the gods is just a better SB card.
Hey all! I didn't know there were people out here like me and now, after being beaten to death by Spiderspace in a league I was informed of this group. I am a big legacy player and have been playing Thalia Eldrazi for some time and was working on a modern equivalent after big thalia came out but never got it right - I was missing Gemstone caver- but now I've built and tried out this list and am in love. I am looking forward to joining this group and hopefully bringing some decent input. I plan on playing this deck in Baltimore for the SCG open so ill be working with it all week
So far I'm 3-0
Storm: 2-0 chalice and Thalia mixed with the pressure of eldrazi seemed too much for them to deal with
SB: RIP did it
Eldrazi and Taxes: 2-1 I got an early smasher down but ended up having 3 chalice stuck in my hand by end of game and lost
I had a hard time casting anger but displacer and path and GQ with all the arbiters on the field just got me there but seems like a grind- I really liked wear//tear here
Living End: 2-0 Crushed it with chalice
I am running Aether Hubs over the filter lands and they seem good.
Really looking forward to learning more about the deck and thanks all of you for all the work you have put in!
I've played against WU control a good amount of times now online and I'm wondering what others game plans are there. They seem to be running 4 MD spreading seas and just have the resources to fight through whatever it is we do. So far, I've only gotten them if I have a very fast and difficult to recover from starts. I've been bringing in EE, wear/tear, nahiri, and rip while taking out dismember and some amount of matter reshaper. Do you all keep in chalice of the void?
Cavern of souls obviously felt good, but my opponent just spreading seased it or gqed it and kept on keeping on. I'm wondering if horizon canopy might just be better as the MUs where cavern matters seems to want to go grindy anyway and this might reduce flooding.
@jack wilds
Welcome around jack wilds!
I mentioned Firespout on the previous page. I think if we can cast Anger reliably then it is just better (exiling and consistently hitting fliers). I don't see too much reason to play Firespout over it besides the casting cost.
If it turns out that double red is too difficult then we might turn to Firespout.
@SpiderSpace
Against UW control I would side like this: in: 2 Rip, Nahiri, Cast out, out: 3 Dismember, 1 Gemstone on the play 1 SSG on the draw. Reshaper seems fine to me as this MU is resource oriented. I think Chalice is alright, atleast better than the other SB options. Maybe go down to 3. I would not bring in Wear/Tear just for Spreading Seas, only if they play multiple Detention Sphere. Why would you bring in EE?
That's a good point. Between GQ and Spreading Seas they have 8 ways to get rid of Cavern. I think both Cavern and Canopy are fine options. I like that Canopy is relevant in every MU including control while Cavern is only relevant against control, grixis DS and Storm.
I have a 12-9 record against control - all types. I think chalice is a must keep in the matchup. Shuts down paths, spell snares, and a lot of their cantrips. It feels like to me if we can't disrupt them early in the game and try to kill them quickly then it's over.
My build runs 2 selfless spirits though main which shines the most in control where supreme verdicts have to be played twice (and also in tron where Oblivion stone gets nerfed).
@Stabil0
That's fair. I just cut into reshaper because it's bad with rip but you're right about it having good value. I saw d spehere as at least a 2x last night, but that might be more build dependent.
I think I'll be moving to canopy.
Between canopy, our R/W lands and their spreading seas, getting to 3 isn't that tough. Being able to blow up multiple seas and maybe a snappy seems fine. Yesterday I was able to blow up a little Gideon and a sphere freeing a smasher and giving me game. It originally was just there as an Elspeth concession, but you could be right that there are better options.
I haven't seen anyone talk about this yet but I'm thinking of testing eternal scourge as a sort of card advantage - the matches that RIP is in it becomes a constant threat - Probably just too cute but I want to see what it is like.
Side note: In my local meta there are a lot of RW Prison and control decks and I think this tech would be great against those.
@jack wilds
Check out the Eldrazi Stompy thread: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/669342-colorless-eldrazi-stompy. They use this tech and go even further with it. The problem is that witout RIP it's just a highly medium card.
I don't see it as maindeck material and as not an optimal SB card. But I don't want to discourage you from testing it. If there is a meta for it then it is a Control / RW prison heavy meta.
You might consider Selfless Spirit, Gideon and Elspeth for this meta as well. Celestial Purge is good against RW prison as well.
Generally I think the control MU is in our favor. But it depends on the version. The UW version that's being played atm is tougher than grixis control for example.
Go wide is difficult (worst is probably Bant Spirits) as is RW Prison as is something like Knightfall.
@SpiderSpace
I like that you can overextend into Wrath with Reshaper to a certain extend.
I just think that we should not really try to fight the Spreading Seas. Their power comes from drawing them a card while annoying us / letting us stumble. But once they resolve they have already cantripped. I don't like spending a card to get rid of them. As long as we have a single white and colorless we should not care about our other lands producing blue now.
Ran some games, deck feels good still, taking it to Baltimore SCG Open next weekend.
Didn't get a lot of work in with the new tech, still lost to Merfolk, though Torpor Orb really slowed them down game 2 (very sad Harbiners, Silvergills and Masters), but it's still pretty good if they go dude, dude, lord, lord, lord. Anger would have definitely won me Game 2. However, I don't think there is any universe where Merfolk is a good match unless they mulligan pretty hard.
Anyone else going?
Greetings from another world!
I'm going to be running Vizier Combo at the SCG Open this weekend. I wanted to reach out - Death and Staxes/Taxes is one of the matchups that is tricky for me. Would you be open to some MTGO games (or Cockatrice in a pinch) to play out the matchup and get some reps in? Maybe talk through lines of play and how this matchup should play out for each of us.
Im always up to testing as well if you still need it- they have more experience with the deck but if you you need any extra add me Jackwilds MTGO and Image
Im always up to testing as well if you still need it- they have more experience with the deck but if you you need any extra add me Jackwilds MTGO and Image
Awesome! I'm Walked on MTGO and welcome the testing. I'm a big proponent of actually chatting about lines of play and what'd be best (for testing, obviously). I'll add you as soon as MTGO isnt in eternal scheduled maintenance.
I'm trying to think of good anti control cards for the SB. What does everyone think of crucible of worlds and defense grid?
The later seems like it could make play slightly awkward for them, but I'm not sure it does enough. Crucible might be pretty good though, especially in a horizon canopy build.
I like Crucible and I really like Horizon canopy so I can see that helping grind out some of those matchups and also help lock up others.
Also I had to jump on and let you all know that I unlocked the achievement of Fused Wear//Tear on turn 2 against Affinity nabbing their Blood moon and vault skirge by floating mana and pitching a guide... Felt Incredible
2-0 in league so far Affinity and UB Mill
12-1 with the deck outside of that losing to grixis control mainly from sloppy play after a bit of tilt game 1
After adjusting and readjusting with a variety of tough modo matches as well as losing ones we're favored in, this is where I'm at with the deck. I've realized that I do want horizon canopy, but that to do so, I need better fixing, hence the prairie's still being in. aether hub was fine, but again, with more canopies, I also have more W sources. Also, I had inspiring vantage block me from playing smashers on time and winning a couple of times, so they're out.
Just went 3-2 in a couple of leagues again. Trying to go above the hump of 60% win rate is difficult. For those of you who keep track, how are you guys faring? In Competitive play (Leagues and 2 Man Queues), I'm 141-90 (61% win rate). What are you guys seeing?
Spiderspace, with the 3 dismembers, 4 sacred foundries and 2 horizon Canopy isn't that pretty painful for the deck? I see why inspiring vantage should be cut though.
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For example something like: Arbiter, Thalia, GQ, Rugged Prairie, SSG, Temple, Smasher gets from fantastic to really risky.
So only a small sample size but since it does not look too promising to me in theory (my previous post) I will reduce the number.
I'm leaving one in for the moment but two seems like too much IMO. But as you said SpiderSpace I don't know what the next best alternative is. Maybe just Foundry nr. 4 or Aether Hub? @redtwister: We are still on 16 (17) colorless sources with zero (or one) Rugged Prairie in the deck. I think that is sufficient. Especially since in the first couple of turns we are more likely to play Hatebears than Eldrazi. It's always nice to have more, especially since we are aggressively using GQ but I think the potential downside is bigger.
Very good points on Wear Tear.
I think a 2/1 split with Mindcensor is perfectly reasonable or just having him in the board. I'm just personally not that big of a fan. Chord creature combos are really popular atm so this would speak for him.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Let me know what you guys got currently in terms of manabase and I'll give it a whirl. Thanks all - loving the new tech!!
SpiderSpaces list.
Since then we moved away from Rugged Prairie (down to one or zero) (see previous couple of posts).
I'm trying two Canopies and zero Cavern atm. Flooding seems more problematic than counterspells to me right now.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
EDIT:
@redtwister yes, aether hub is taking the slot of rugged prairie in my list.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
So far I'm 3-0
Storm: 2-0 chalice and Thalia mixed with the pressure of eldrazi seemed too much for them to deal with
SB: RIP did it
Eldrazi and Taxes: 2-1 I got an early smasher down but ended up having 3 chalice stuck in my hand by end of game and lost
I had a hard time casting anger but displacer and path and GQ with all the arbiters on the field just got me there but seems like a grind- I really liked wear//tear here
Living End: 2-0 Crushed it with chalice
I am running Aether Hubs over the filter lands and they seem good.
Really looking forward to learning more about the deck and thanks all of you for all the work you have put in!
Cavern of souls obviously felt good, but my opponent just spreading seased it or gqed it and kept on keeping on. I'm wondering if horizon canopy might just be better as the MUs where cavern matters seems to want to go grindy anyway and this might reduce flooding.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
We can consistently kill the ground creatures and it's not impossible to take care of the air either if we are upping our count of canopy
Welcome around jack wilds!
I mentioned Firespout on the previous page. I think if we can cast Anger reliably then it is just better (exiling and consistently hitting fliers). I don't see too much reason to play Firespout over it besides the casting cost.
If it turns out that double red is too difficult then we might turn to Firespout.
@SpiderSpace
Against UW control I would side like this: in: 2 Rip, Nahiri, Cast out, out: 3 Dismember, 1 Gemstone on the play 1 SSG on the draw. Reshaper seems fine to me as this MU is resource oriented. I think Chalice is alright, atleast better than the other SB options. Maybe go down to 3. I would not bring in Wear/Tear just for Spreading Seas, only if they play multiple Detention Sphere. Why would you bring in EE?
That's a good point. Between GQ and Spreading Seas they have 8 ways to get rid of Cavern. I think both Cavern and Canopy are fine options. I like that Canopy is relevant in every MU including control while Cavern is only relevant against control, grixis DS and Storm.
My build runs 2 selfless spirits though main which shines the most in control where supreme verdicts have to be played twice (and also in tron where Oblivion stone gets nerfed).
That's fair. I just cut into reshaper because it's bad with rip but you're right about it having good value. I saw d spehere as at least a 2x last night, but that might be more build dependent.
I think I'll be moving to canopy.
Between canopy, our R/W lands and their spreading seas, getting to 3 isn't that tough. Being able to blow up multiple seas and maybe a snappy seems fine. Yesterday I was able to blow up a little Gideon and a sphere freeing a smasher and giving me game. It originally was just there as an Elspeth concession, but you could be right that there are better options.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
Side note: In my local meta there are a lot of RW Prison and control decks and I think this tech would be great against those.
Cool thing if you exile it to Gemstone Cavern its free!!
Am I understanding that the worst matchups for this deck are go wide strategies and control/prison?
Check out the Eldrazi Stompy thread: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/669342-colorless-eldrazi-stompy. They use this tech and go even further with it. The problem is that witout RIP it's just a highly medium card.
I don't see it as maindeck material and as not an optimal SB card. But I don't want to discourage you from testing it. If there is a meta for it then it is a Control / RW prison heavy meta.
You might consider Selfless Spirit, Gideon and Elspeth for this meta as well. Celestial Purge is good against RW prison as well.
Generally I think the control MU is in our favor. But it depends on the version. The UW version that's being played atm is tougher than grixis control for example.
Go wide is difficult (worst is probably Bant Spirits) as is RW Prison as is something like Knightfall.
@SpiderSpace
I like that you can overextend into Wrath with Reshaper to a certain extend.
I just think that we should not really try to fight the Spreading Seas. Their power comes from drawing them a card while annoying us / letting us stumble. But once they resolve they have already cantripped. I don't like spending a card to get rid of them. As long as we have a single white and colorless we should not care about our other lands producing blue now.
Greetings from another world!
I'm going to be running Vizier Combo at the SCG Open this weekend. I wanted to reach out - Death and Staxes/Taxes is one of the matchups that is tricky for me. Would you be open to some MTGO games (or Cockatrice in a pinch) to play out the matchup and get some reps in? Maybe talk through lines of play and how this matchup should play out for each of us.
Let me know!
Awesome! I'm Walked on MTGO and welcome the testing. I'm a big proponent of actually chatting about lines of play and what'd be best (for testing, obviously). I'll add you as soon as MTGO isnt in eternal scheduled maintenance.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
Awesome; whats your MTGO handle? I'm walked on there too
I'm trying to think of good anti control cards for the SB. What does everyone think of crucible of worlds and defense grid?
The later seems like it could make play slightly awkward for them, but I'm not sure it does enough. Crucible might be pretty good though, especially in a horizon canopy build.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
Also I had to jump on and let you all know that I unlocked the achievement of Fused Wear//Tear on turn 2 against Affinity nabbing their Blood moon and vault skirge by floating mana and pitching a guide... Felt Incredible
2-0 in league so far Affinity and UB Mill
12-1 with the deck outside of that losing to grixis control mainly from sloppy play after a bit of tilt game 1
http://imgur.com/a/1PXol
(ignore modo's messed up smasher art if you can)
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
Spiderspace, with the 3 dismembers, 4 sacred foundries and 2 horizon Canopy isn't that pretty painful for the deck? I see why inspiring vantage should be cut though.