There have been many efforts by even more people, myself included, that have failed to import HateBear/Maverick into Modern.
-The lands aren't as good
-Nearly every staple of the deck is banned
I decided to focus on non-creature hate, search, and life-gain as a way to combat control, combo, and aggro.
I ended up with a bunch of trinkets, a solid way to find and cheat in small green creatures, and an aggro defense that also functions as a piece of the win-con.
The non-creature hate:
Hope of Ghirapur, Thorn of Amethyst, Gaddock Teeg: This is the package we are going to try to establish to force the opponent to beat us on the battlefield. The premise behind them is to slow down non-creature spells, until they can't cast them at all.
The anti-aggro:
Ethersworn Canonist and Kitchen Finks: Can slow creature aggro and spell aggro, hopefully enough until we can start popping off a particular Angel to immortalize the Angel herself, and Finks.
The recursion:
Saffi Eriksdotter, Renegade Rallier: pretty straightforward. They're pretty good together.
The cream of the crop:
Aether Vial, Summoner's Pact, Ethersworn Canonist: Most of our creatures fall between 1 and 3 mana and Vial, not only allows us to cheat them in at instant speed... but get's around the Canonist global restriction. Additionally, Summoner's Pact let's us find most creatures for as little as zero mana. Imagine the look on your opponent's face when you Summoner's Pact a green creature, and Vial it into play... all at instant speed.
The wincon: mostly has to do with Finks and Archangel of Thune. May use that little green guy that gains life when creature etb.
I hope you enjoyed reading about this deck. If you're an aggro player, go drive into a tree.
With that said, I think Melira, Sylvok Outcast should be in the deck because its really good for Finks and hoses infect, which this deck has a really poor matchup against.
I have zero concern against blue decks and planeswalkers, which is quite a statement from a predominantly green deck: Vial, Hope, Thorn, Teeg. God forbid someone can actually cast one though
I'm looking in lands, and I'm noticing a ton of lands that gain life, but they all etb tapped.
You should check the GW Hatebear thread if you haven't already.
What strikes me about your list is that you have a lot of bad top decks. I'd say that the majority of your deck doesn't do a whole lot in the mid and late game and is very situational plus you don't have many ways to refuel (like Collected Company or Ranger of Eos). In short: you're gonna run out of cards really fast. This is why Thalia, Guardian of Thraben sees play and Thorn doesn't. Thorn is horrible from turn 3 on onward while Thalia at least has legs and trades well. Slow decks without strong synergies need to be build with cards that are strong in a vacuum and in any state of the game.
You also run 2 combos (Melira + Finks + Viscera Seer and Archangel of Thune + Spike Feeder) just without the last combo piece. That doesn't seem right. Archangel is not a good card unless you plan to do broken things by going infinite and winning on the spot. You even have tutors to accompany that plan.
What happens if no one can play Collected Company? Renegade Rallier is similar to the Ranger.
The whole objective of the deck is to force the opponent to beat us with creatures. To filter out the planeswalkers, enchantments, sorceries, instants, and artifacts completely from turn 2 onward. That in itself is a game-winner if you can't overpower Fink(s).
This theme slows the game down to molasses speed.
Or I'm just missing one piece to a 4 card combo: Viscera Seer. Is that a win more card if I'm putting 2 +1/+1 counters on all of my creatures every turn?
I do agree I'm mising something, but I don't think its combo pieces. It's creature control.
Viscera Seer is not a win more card. It's been a stable since Birthing Pod and now in CoCo decks. The thing about taxing effects plus other soft locks is that it doesn't matter anymore when the game enters the midgame. I've tried going down that direction with Thalia, Thorn and Lodestone Golem. What I think you are missing is the fact that most games in Modern are attrition based. Whoever comes out on the other side with more cards than the opponent usually wins and a lot of decks happen to be creature based (Jund, Abzan, CoCo, Hatebears, Bant Eldrazi, Tron Eldrazi, Elves, Merfolk etc.). You will fall behind against these decks when you draw your 1 mana 1/1'a and 2 mana 2/2's and they draw their 2 mana 5/6s and 3 mana 5/5s.
I also think you might be over evaluating Ghirpur and Thorn against spell based decks. They aren't locking your oppoent out of the game, they are simply delaying your opponent a turn or two. This does matter but only if you're able to kill your opponent in that time frame. This requires some meat which the deck seems to be lacking. This is why I pointed towards the GW Hatebear thread for some inspiration. Since the do run a lot of meat that punishes the opponent while he is struggling with mana.
That's the whole point of Teeg. Delay, delay, delay, and then Nope.
Maybe you are right about Thorn, in fact there's several cards like Golem, some Vryn bird, Thalia.
I did do another creature search, albeit only in white. Found a few cards mostly dealing with counters and recursion. Tethmos, Titan, a few others that might ddrastically change the course. List is on another computer though, for now.
What do you think about recurring Ghirapur? It does leave a window for instants, and it can obviously be blocked. But ***** I'm welcome to it eating a lightning bolt. It's a potential as a 1 drop to protect something like a Knight of the Reliquary is tremendous. Saffi seems like a real bomb to me with recursion too.
Recurring Ghirapur might work. You probably want to go into a Martyr/Proc kinda direction with Ranger of Eos and Proclamation of Rebirth (check the thread for inspiration).
Otherwise Sun Titan is always a solid game plan, since he's card advantage and a beat stick all in one (both things the deck could need). You probably want some amount of mana dorks to support that plan though. Noble Hierarch and Lotus Cobra if you can afford them else Birds of Paradise is a fine budget alternative. Lotus Cobra + Knight of the Reliquary is usually pretty nuts. You probably also want something that trumps the creature matchups Gavony Township and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar come to mind. Both can be recurred with Titan and recurring Renegade Rallier with Titan is just insane value. If you aren't going for a combo finish I would cut the Summoner's Pacts as well. They are good if you go off and win the turn you cast them, but if you have to stick around for the next upkeep they are way too pricey. The Ghirapurs could probably get shaved down to 1 or 2 for a tool box approach with Ranger of Eos.
I've used BoP, Cobra, and KotR in an Ernham Geddin kind of deck in legacy. It was mildly successful. It was just boring to me though. Try and win the same way in 4 or 5 turns gets old.
I'm all about resiliency and versatility. So it goes without saying I like control cards. I'm not into infinite though. It's just anti-magic. People scoop when you establish it.
I have built a few combo-decks for legacy that lasted me a while, "Squirrelcraft" + Grave Pact as an engine to draw/discard/etc. And also a simic that used Prophet/Veilstone/Consecrated Sphinx/Forbid as the primary win-con. Neither was much more than average, but they almost never lost in FFA.
Modern is new to me. I'm trying to speed up as I'm sure modern is more traditional magic. Maybe not as much as standard, but standard cycles too quickly for my liking.
I have been trying to incorporate maverick into modern for quite some time, with little success. Crop Rotation, Green Sun's Zenith, Sylvan Safekeeper and the lands, are just hard to replace. I wish they'd reprint crop rotation as its a rather balanced card imo. The closest I've come to them is Ruin Ghost with some etb lands. This almost forces a new approach with a similar idea.
I don't have any Vials yet, nor do I have any Summoner's Pacts yet. Both are mildly expensive, but affordable. I am quite enthused about how they work together, and even more so with Ethersworn Canonist. With exception to Pact, as you pointed out, they are all terrible top-decks, and none of them are green creatures.
Green offers me draw, without the boring counterspells. It should be apparent I'm a big green fan. Building green control is a challenge to me though.
Obviously I had a lot of anti-blue in mind in my initial draft.
I can't say I'm too excited about 1-drop creatures. But the list of 2 cmc creatures I like is nearly endless. In fact there's a lot that have not even been mentioned.
Aven Mindcensor seems okay. It's just terrible against aggro, and its not green. So it would demand to be a 4-of if I still lean towards S Pact.
I mean hey, I get it: Finks and Thune still need the actual interaction that isn't blocking or attacking. But that's another reason to include scavenging ooze, azorius arrester chump blocking, and sapseep forest. Worst case scnario is I actually am up against a spell-heavy deck and exile my own arresters.
PS: can't afford Voice, its absurdly expensive last I checked.
PPS: It's funny that my initial deck was strong against control, weak in power, weak in draw. Kind of ironic for green.
That's a really sweet combo. I messed around with it once too but only with moderate success. Modern really needs Mother of Runes for such things. Spellskite of course is always an option but not a card you'd want to run 4 of. Spirit isn't as good as in Legacy either since almost all cantrips are banned in Modern.
There's indeed a lot of sweet GW hatebears. I think the key is to understand the meta game and that might take a while. Question is whether you are trying to re-invent the wheel when GW Hatebears seem to be the direction you want to go (being a Maverick fan and all)?
Though I get that testing and brewing beats net-decking by a long shot. I'm not convinced that Archangel is a good win condition though. People used to mess around with Archangel and Spike Feeder in the old Birthing Pod days but ultimately cut it because Archangel was too weak by itself (they ran Finks and Ooze too). In order for it to generate value the turn you play it, you need to hold up a mana for Ooze or go through an attack phase with Finks or else it eats a removal spell and does nothing (it's relatively easy to kill too, though I guess it dodges Fatal Push and Decay). I'm sure that there are better trump cards: like Reveillark and Sun Titan if you wanna stick to the recursion theme.
-The lands aren't as good
-Nearly every staple of the deck is banned
I decided to focus on non-creature hate, search, and life-gain as a way to combat control, combo, and aggro.
I ended up with a bunch of trinkets, a solid way to find and cheat in small green creatures, and an aggro defense that also functions as a piece of the win-con.
Without further ado, I present GoGo Gadget:
4 Hope of Ghirapur
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Saffi Eriksdotter
2 Renegade Rallier
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
2 Archangel of Thune
4 Aether Vial
3 Thorn of Amethyst
Instants(8)
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Path to Exile
Lands(23)
4 Windswept Heath
2 Temple Garden
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Sapseep Forest
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
5 Forest
5 Plains
The non-creature hate:
Hope of Ghirapur, Thorn of Amethyst, Gaddock Teeg: This is the package we are going to try to establish to force the opponent to beat us on the battlefield. The premise behind them is to slow down non-creature spells, until they can't cast them at all.
The anti-aggro:
Ethersworn Canonist and Kitchen Finks: Can slow creature aggro and spell aggro, hopefully enough until we can start popping off a particular Angel to immortalize the Angel herself, and Finks.
The recursion:
Saffi Eriksdotter, Renegade Rallier: pretty straightforward. They're pretty good together.
The cream of the crop:
Aether Vial, Summoner's Pact, Ethersworn Canonist: Most of our creatures fall between 1 and 3 mana and Vial, not only allows us to cheat them in at instant speed... but get's around the Canonist global restriction. Additionally, Summoner's Pact let's us find most creatures for as little as zero mana. Imagine the look on your opponent's face when you Summoner's Pact a green creature, and Vial it into play... all at instant speed.
The wincon: mostly has to do with Finks and Archangel of Thune. May use that little green guy that gains life when creature etb.
I hope you enjoyed reading about this deck. If you're an aggro player, go drive into a tree.
With that said, I think Melira, Sylvok Outcast should be in the deck because its really good for Finks and hoses infect, which this deck has a really poor matchup against.
sideboard likely to include Kataki, War's Wage.
The deck might not be that good against flyers, and I'm on the fence on how to deal with that appropriately. Recurring a Deadly Recluse seems okay. Aquastrand Spider Well, could be good with Finks. There's always Arashi, the sky asunder or maybe even Silklash Spider or Watcher in the Web
Came across an infinite combo with Spike Feeder today(Thune) (in "Abzan Toolbox"). I suppose it would be in my best interest to use that.
Might have to sideboard a Tajuru Preserver as I'd probably need him before I could cast a Sigarda against a pox style deck.
Geier Reach Sanitarium / Mikokoro, Center of the Sea seems just stupid good with Spirit of the Labyrinth, but that would probably be better included in a completely different deck.
I have zero concern against blue decks and planeswalkers, which is quite a statement from a predominantly green deck: Vial, Hope, Thorn, Teeg. God forbid someone can actually cast one though
I'm looking in lands, and I'm noticing a ton of lands that gain life, but they all etb tapped.
4 Hope of Ghirapur
4 Azorius Arrester
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Archangel of Thune
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Aether Vial
4 Thorn of Amethyst
Instants(4)
4 Summoner's Pact
Lands(23)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Bastion
2 Sapseep Forest
2 Mistveil Plains
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
4 Forest
4 Plains
4 Loxodon Smiter
1 Tajuru Preserver
Trying to replace Path to Exile with creatures that do the same thing. Can't seem to do it.
What strikes me about your list is that you have a lot of bad top decks. I'd say that the majority of your deck doesn't do a whole lot in the mid and late game and is very situational plus you don't have many ways to refuel (like Collected Company or Ranger of Eos). In short: you're gonna run out of cards really fast. This is why Thalia, Guardian of Thraben sees play and Thorn doesn't. Thorn is horrible from turn 3 on onward while Thalia at least has legs and trades well. Slow decks without strong synergies need to be build with cards that are strong in a vacuum and in any state of the game.
You also run 2 combos (Melira + Finks + Viscera Seer and Archangel of Thune + Spike Feeder) just without the last combo piece. That doesn't seem right. Archangel is not a good card unless you plan to do broken things by going infinite and winning on the spot. You even have tutors to accompany that plan.
What happens if no one can play Collected Company? Renegade Rallier is similar to the Ranger.
The whole objective of the deck is to force the opponent to beat us with creatures. To filter out the planeswalkers, enchantments, sorceries, instants, and artifacts completely from turn 2 onward. That in itself is a game-winner if you can't overpower Fink(s).
This theme slows the game down to molasses speed.
Or I'm just missing one piece to a 4 card combo: Viscera Seer. Is that a win more card if I'm putting 2 +1/+1 counters on all of my creatures every turn?
I do agree I'm mising something, but I don't think its combo pieces. It's creature control.
I also think you might be over evaluating Ghirpur and Thorn against spell based decks. They aren't locking your oppoent out of the game, they are simply delaying your opponent a turn or two. This does matter but only if you're able to kill your opponent in that time frame. This requires some meat which the deck seems to be lacking. This is why I pointed towards the GW Hatebear thread for some inspiration. Since the do run a lot of meat that punishes the opponent while he is struggling with mana.
Maybe you are right about Thorn, in fact there's several cards like Golem, some Vryn bird, Thalia.
I did do another creature search, albeit only in white. Found a few cards mostly dealing with counters and recursion. Tethmos, Titan, a few others that might ddrastically change the course. List is on another computer though, for now.
What do you think about recurring Ghirapur? It does leave a window for instants, and it can obviously be blocked. But ***** I'm welcome to it eating a lightning bolt. It's a potential as a 1 drop to protect something like a Knight of the Reliquary is tremendous. Saffi seems like a real bomb to me with recursion too.
Otherwise Sun Titan is always a solid game plan, since he's card advantage and a beat stick all in one (both things the deck could need). You probably want some amount of mana dorks to support that plan though. Noble Hierarch and Lotus Cobra if you can afford them else Birds of Paradise is a fine budget alternative. Lotus Cobra + Knight of the Reliquary is usually pretty nuts. You probably also want something that trumps the creature matchups Gavony Township and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar come to mind. Both can be recurred with Titan and recurring Renegade Rallier with Titan is just insane value. If you aren't going for a combo finish I would cut the Summoner's Pacts as well. They are good if you go off and win the turn you cast them, but if you have to stick around for the next upkeep they are way too pricey. The Ghirapurs could probably get shaved down to 1 or 2 for a tool box approach with Ranger of Eos.
I'm all about resiliency and versatility. So it goes without saying I like control cards. I'm not into infinite though. It's just anti-magic. People scoop when you establish it.
I have built a few combo-decks for legacy that lasted me a while, "Squirrelcraft" + Grave Pact as an engine to draw/discard/etc. And also a simic that used Prophet/Veilstone/Consecrated Sphinx/Forbid as the primary win-con. Neither was much more than average, but they almost never lost in FFA.
Modern is new to me. I'm trying to speed up as I'm sure modern is more traditional magic. Maybe not as much as standard, but standard cycles too quickly for my liking.
I have been trying to incorporate maverick into modern for quite some time, with little success. Crop Rotation, Green Sun's Zenith, Sylvan Safekeeper and the lands, are just hard to replace. I wish they'd reprint crop rotation as its a rather balanced card imo. The closest I've come to them is Ruin Ghost with some etb lands. This almost forces a new approach with a similar idea.
I don't have any Vials yet, nor do I have any Summoner's Pacts yet. Both are mildly expensive, but affordable. I am quite enthused about how they work together, and even more so with Ethersworn Canonist. With exception to Pact, as you pointed out, they are all terrible top-decks, and none of them are green creatures.
Green offers me draw, without the boring counterspells. It should be apparent I'm a big green fan. Building green control is a challenge to me though.
Obviously I had a lot of anti-blue in mind in my initial draft.
I can't say I'm too excited about 1-drop creatures. But the list of 2 cmc creatures I like is nearly endless. In fact there's a lot that have not even been mentioned.
Had some ideas about Spirit of the Labyrinth Geier Reach Sanitarium Mikokoro, Center of the Sea abuse. Seems kind of janky for the the topdeck soft-lock, though.
Aven Mindcensor seems okay. It's just terrible against aggro, and its not green. So it would demand to be a 4-of if I still lean towards S Pact.
I mean hey, I get it: Finks and Thune still need the actual interaction that isn't blocking or attacking. But that's another reason to include scavenging ooze, azorius arrester chump blocking, and sapseep forest. Worst case scnario is I actually am up against a spell-heavy deck and exile my own arresters.
PS: can't afford Voice, its absurdly expensive last I checked.
PPS: It's funny that my initial deck was strong against control, weak in power, weak in draw. Kind of ironic for green.
That's a really sweet combo. I messed around with it once too but only with moderate success. Modern really needs Mother of Runes for such things. Spellskite of course is always an option but not a card you'd want to run 4 of. Spirit isn't as good as in Legacy either since almost all cantrips are banned in Modern.
There's indeed a lot of sweet GW hatebears. I think the key is to understand the meta game and that might take a while. Question is whether you are trying to re-invent the wheel when GW Hatebears seem to be the direction you want to go (being a Maverick fan and all)?
Though I get that testing and brewing beats net-decking by a long shot. I'm not convinced that Archangel is a good win condition though. People used to mess around with Archangel and Spike Feeder in the old Birthing Pod days but ultimately cut it because Archangel was too weak by itself (they ran Finks and Ooze too). In order for it to generate value the turn you play it, you need to hold up a mana for Ooze or go through an attack phase with Finks or else it eats a removal spell and does nothing (it's relatively easy to kill too, though I guess it dodges Fatal Push and Decay). I'm sure that there are better trump cards: like Reveillark and Sun Titan if you wanna stick to the recursion theme.