I was watching some videos of RG standard energy deck and with the priintings of new spoilers I think a modern deck that uses energy could be really viable because it has lot of synergy and combos inside.
There are lot of synergy in the the deck and ii's capable of finishing the game in turn 4:
T1)Land, Attune with Aether->2 energy
T2)Land, Longtusk Cub
T3)Land, Winding Constrictor, spend ee on cub (now is a 4/4), play Greenbelt Rampager get ee, spend ee on cub (now is a 6/6) --> attack with cub
T4) Play 3 times greenbelt Rampager using the energy of each time to put two counters on cub (6 counters), --> attack with 12/12 cub + constrictor = 20 damage.
Beside of this gameplay there are lot of more interactions and you can include bristling hydra for a hexproof incredible monster or Nissa for pumping all the team or create board advantage, etc. Beside of that this list have Glint-Sleeve Siphoner which is the most similar creature we have had for years to dark confidant and having menace is also really good. This girl plus elephant is one free card per turn.
We also have removal in the form of fatal push and Harnessed Lightning and have a nice lategame because all hydras, Nissas and card advantage.
I also would like to include vengevine in this deck because they would be really easy to recur with greenbelt Rampager and provide more explosiveness to the deck but have not room for them and a way to discard them (faithless looting or any other spell like this one), and also if we would like to exploit our graveyard probably we will need more vengevine like creatures. Anyways is another way to go.
Hello, With any single iteration of counters, most of creatures get out of bolt range. Anyways the reasoning of creatures dies to removal seems not enough to stop the developing of the deck.
Also you would need removal for almost every creature in the deck to stop it because all of them are menaces by their own so I'm not afraid about removal. Beside of that Bristling Hydra dodges all this kind of removal and you can cast it on turn three and win in three turns (or even two with a snake out or nissa).
Talking about the devil, Nissa provides an infinite supply of creatures so again I'm not worried about removal at all. And finally we have card advantage in an aggro deck which help us to not loosing to control decks.
#The "Standard" deck actually plays Voltaic Brawler (an actually modern playable creature) and Electrostatic Pummeler and pump spells which seems better than your plan.
#All those creatures aren't good enough by modern standards (and Attune with Aether is rather bad too) and this will just be a weaker "Zoo" deck (or if you are going the combo/voltron plan then it is a weaker "infect"/"boggles"/"prowess" deck).
I don't see any reason to play an "Energy" deck in "Modern" as it offers nothing that can't be done in "Standard" and has no support in older sets.
Thanks man, I really think this deck has potential. We can even try to include hardened scales too but I think they are not necessary right now.
I'm excited of having the cards (and the new ones) to test it properly but right now it seems really good to me because you are improving a deck that already works (in other formats I know, but this one could be used even in the new format Frontier!!!)
It's not a standard deck with fetches although you surely can adapt it.
The black creatures you are discarding (Winding Constrictor, Glint-Sleeve Siphoner) are really good and not out of place because snake provide us one more energy for each energy spell we cast and combines also with all our counter creatures (longtusk cub and bristling hydra) and the siphoner is like dark confidant but making much less damage. Because this reason and because synergy I prefer this girl to confidant. In the testings I've done till now (proxy) this card is really good.
Voltaic Brawler can be used instead of the Servant of the Conduit, but I prefer the servant because it helps to combo with the elephant. About Electrostatic Pummeler, I wouldn't play it in modern at all. The Voltron plan is always a bad idea in modern and more if the creature a) has not self-protection b) You have to waste lot of slots to make the plan effective and a single counterspell ruins your day. I can't think on this guy being played in modern but the other cards can be, because they are good on their own and better if you mix them.
I agree with you in the fact that Attune with aether is not very good but there aren't more one good drops that provide energy (the turtle and the gnome are rather bad) and helps to reach the turn 4 kill.
The only other thing I agree with you is in that older sets don't provide lot of things for a deck like this one (although one option would be including vengevines and faithless looting as I suggested in the first post), but this is not reason to not try it. It can win in turn four as you can see in previous posts and you only need 2-3 cards to make it possible.
If you want to use older cards help me to find room for vengevines (vengevine + Greenbelt Rampager = profit), faithless looting and some other stuff to use this plan (Bloodghast can be another candidate).
So if you want to play older cards exploit the synergy between vengevine + Greenbelt Rampager!!
Anyways I think the deck is well tuned and can be a serious contender against some other modern decks.
Winding Constrictor doesn't actually add energy as it only adds a counter to a permanent while energy is tied to a player.
So it basically only acts as Hardened Scales in the deck.
I stand by what I said about the creatures, on their own they are not modern-playable (except for Voltaic Brawler) and no "Zoo" in "Modern" would even consider playing them and the energy synergy doesn't do enough to compensate for it.
You are not even using any of the good r/g cards (removal, burn and mana dorks) because of the energy theme.
Beside of that, not giving much attention to the energy theme and only using it when available, we are playing:
2/3 or 3/3 creatures for 2
2/1 creatures that make you draw and have evasion
3/4 creature for 3
5/4 creature with hexproof for 4
As you can see the deck has lot of creatures (much more than removal other decks have, and you only need to spend the minimun resources to masimize the benefits)
And this is only simplifying the deck, now you add Synergy and things begin to run out of control easily and quickly.
Eldrazi is the proof we can port a standard deck into modern by just adding a better manabase, basically. So let's be careful about old-fashioned phrases in Magic.
That being said, I think the Nissas are out of place in the original list. You want all your spells to add energy or pump hard (with evasion). I believe Longtusk Cub is a very bad card in modern too : It's unlikely that it will connect, and he grows for too high of a price.
You probably want to build the deck in the way of Infect, in the familiy of "pump-effects" archetypes. For example, you absolutely need evasion, therefore Temur Battle Rage is exactly what you need if you play red. The 3/4 and the Hydra will be chumped forever otherwise.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
You are right about evasion, Is the only thing I thought was a weakness when building the list. Probably the Glint-Sleeve Siphoner are not going to be enough so I'm looking for something that uses this mechanic beside the big bad lizard which is really expensive!!
Nissa are there for the synergy with the snake although as you said could be replaced with something better.
ABout cub, they are neccesary to spend all the energy you get with the elephant becoming a monster really fast. The cubs are not bad here, believe me.
Anyways I'll try to find something better to replace Nissa, Any idea or suggestion??
@D90Dennis> I notice you do that very often, i.e. you propose cards that go in an opposite direction than the intent of the archetype in the first place. It seems like you randomly come in topics and don't give a minute of reflexion before posting your opinion. You just lurk and post no matter what. Please step aside if you don't want to help players. Because what I see here and in other topics is someone who is not constructive at all, and that's annoying.
If you want to bash a deck idea, at least explain why you think the idea is bad rather than name-dropping cards that have nothing to do with the archetype. This is argument from authority, and therefore fallacy. You could've at least named cards that produce energy...
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
I just wanted to illustrate that you could play better on their own creatures without relying on energy as it is not a viable mechanic to build a modern deck around imho as everything that works with it is in standard and is underpowered compared to what is available in modern.
I won't comment on the rest of your post as it's not even worth addressing.
Eldrazi is the proof we can port a standard deck into modern by just adding a better manabase, basically. So let's be careful about old-fashioned phrases in Magic.
Eldrazi was an extremely pushed tribe, so im not sure this is sarcasm.
Also Infect counters are also affected by the snake's ability so I wouldnt run it here. I think Energy is not a great mechanic for a deck, just an ability that exists on some cards that could be playable. The energy costs are more than Id be willing to pay in modern because often the bodies these abilities exist on are underpar and the only 2 Id realistically play in modern are Voltaic Brawler and greenbelt rampager. Also this is just a standard deck. This doesnt play anything that keeps you on par in modern like lightning bolt. Though Id be interested in IDsurge's list
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
I know most of you think that energy sucks and only think that in modern you can play with the staples of modern. I'm trying to build a different deck, to create a new fresh archetype and brew with it. The deck I've put in the first post works fine. I've already tested it against some stuff and the results surprised me so I bet you to try it an comment after that because I want to develop this deck as much as I can.
I'm welcome to any constructive idea that try to help so please keep posting constructive suggestions.
I like the combo approach that pummeler offers but to make it viable you have to play pump spells and hence you can be destroyed with a removal in the correct time or a counterspell. Because of that I've centered the deck more in creatures that can beat and do another nice things. This could be another option to develop but right now I think is better not playing pump spells and play useful energy creatures instead.
Anyways lot of thanks for your suggestion ;), any constructive one is really welcome
PD: I was thinking if Aethersphere Harvester could be a good addition here. It has evasion, a big butt and can be crewed with any creature and can help you to race other aggro decks as well
I've played around with Modern Vehicles as well, the issue there is just that by themselves, they are nothing, you need that creature to crew it. I like the idea and will be testing more when the next set hit's MTGO.
I honestly don't see a reason to play energy-centric decks RIGHT NOW. But after ROE there was no reason to play an Eldrazi deck OVER OTHER OPTIONS aside from wanting the theme at the expense of it being good. But just like Eldrazi, energy will be back and it might take as little as one return of the mechanic to make it more viable
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
I also think this deck would be viable right now. I would remove all nissas and include 4 Aethersphere Harvester and remove 2 other cards to include 2 verdurous gearhulk. It seems promising
I've seen other thread that tries to exploit the combo with tangleroot and Elemental Bond, and I think both cards can be played in the deck I was suggesting.
Also Aethergeode Miner have synergy spending the energy you get and netting you draw cards with the bond. Also is a very aggresive creature so is something to look at too.
With that the deck is able to draw the whole deck and beat with a gigantic cub, although right now have lot less removal. Including vengevines somehow would also be great here because you will draw from them too. Perhaps a less energyu centric deck could also work, something like:
With the tangleroot combo you can even play something that net you life when a creature comes or leave the battlefield like any sisters (Soul Warden, Soul's Attendant or the so) or Outpost Siege to go for infinite life or damage also
Removing red seems rasonable but the we loose 4 removal that provide energy, and the lootings so vengevines you draw in you opening hand are dead cards beside of the fact that looting help a lot too to avoid bad hands and the so.
About adding 4xCommune with the Gods, 4xGather the pack, I think the latest one would be better and don't know if I need 8 dig spells in the deck also.
I'm not sure why you suggested 4xRenegade Rallier. Why do the deck need this guy???
The last point: Swap FP for PtE. All of us know how good is PtE but FP seems better in a deck like this one that can achieve revolt so easily. Also giving a land to the opponent is not something I've liked ever so not sure about this change also.
The good thing is that if I follow your suggestions the deck would be GW so would have a more stable manabase.
Beside of that loosing Servant of the Conduit is something I'm not sure because the deck looses Speed and a way to generate early energy.
I was watching some videos of RG standard energy deck and with the priintings of new spoilers I think a modern deck that uses energy could be really viable because it has lot of synergy and combos inside.
The decklist I'm thinking on is the following:
4 Attune with Aether
4 Greenbelt Rampager
4 Fatal Push
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Winding Constrictor
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Bristling Hydra
4 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
4 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
There are lot of synergy in the the deck and ii's capable of finishing the game in turn 4:
T1)Land, Attune with Aether->2 energy
T2)Land, Longtusk Cub
T3)Land, Winding Constrictor, spend ee on cub (now is a 4/4), play Greenbelt Rampager get ee, spend ee on cub (now is a 6/6) --> attack with cub
T4) Play 3 times greenbelt Rampager using the energy of each time to put two counters on cub (6 counters), --> attack with 12/12 cub + constrictor = 20 damage.
Beside of this gameplay there are lot of more interactions and you can include bristling hydra for a hexproof incredible monster or Nissa for pumping all the team or create board advantage, etc. Beside of that this list have Glint-Sleeve Siphoner which is the most similar creature we have had for years to dark confidant and having menace is also really good. This girl plus elephant is one free card per turn.
We also have removal in the form of fatal push and Harnessed Lightning and have a nice lategame because all hydras, Nissas and card advantage.
I also would like to include vengevine in this deck because they would be really easy to recur with greenbelt Rampager and provide more explosiveness to the deck but have not room for them and a way to discard them (faithless looting or any other spell like this one), and also if we would like to exploit our graveyard probably we will need more vengevine like creatures. Anyways is another way to go.
What do you think?? Any ideas or improvements?
Also you would need removal for almost every creature in the deck to stop it because all of them are menaces by their own so I'm not afraid about removal. Beside of that Bristling Hydra dodges all this kind of removal and you can cast it on turn three and win in three turns (or even two with a snake out or nissa).
Talking about the devil, Nissa provides an infinite supply of creatures so again I'm not worried about removal at all. And finally we have card advantage in an aggro deck which help us to not loosing to control decks.
Black (Winding Constrictor, Glint-Sleeve Siphoner) also seems rather out place here.
#The "Standard" deck actually plays Voltaic Brawler (an actually modern playable creature) and Electrostatic Pummeler and pump spells which seems better than your plan.
#All those creatures aren't good enough by modern standards (and Attune with Aether is rather bad too) and this will just be a weaker "Zoo" deck (or if you are going the combo/voltron plan then it is a weaker "infect"/"boggles"/"prowess" deck).
I don't see any reason to play an "Energy" deck in "Modern" as it offers nothing that can't be done in "Standard" and has no support in older sets.
I'm excited of having the cards (and the new ones) to test it properly but right now it seems really good to me because you are improving a deck that already works (in other formats I know, but this one could be used even in the new format Frontier!!!)
The black creatures you are discarding (Winding Constrictor, Glint-Sleeve Siphoner) are really good and not out of place because snake provide us one more energy for each energy spell we cast and combines also with all our counter creatures (longtusk cub and bristling hydra) and the siphoner is like dark confidant but making much less damage. Because this reason and because synergy I prefer this girl to confidant. In the testings I've done till now (proxy) this card is really good.
Voltaic Brawler can be used instead of the Servant of the Conduit, but I prefer the servant because it helps to combo with the elephant. About Electrostatic Pummeler, I wouldn't play it in modern at all. The Voltron plan is always a bad idea in modern and more if the creature a) has not self-protection b) You have to waste lot of slots to make the plan effective and a single counterspell ruins your day. I can't think on this guy being played in modern but the other cards can be, because they are good on their own and better if you mix them.
I agree with you in the fact that Attune with aether is not very good but there aren't more one good drops that provide energy (the turtle and the gnome are rather bad) and helps to reach the turn 4 kill.
The only other thing I agree with you is in that older sets don't provide lot of things for a deck like this one (although one option would be including vengevines and faithless looting as I suggested in the first post), but this is not reason to not try it. It can win in turn four as you can see in previous posts and you only need 2-3 cards to make it possible.
If you want to use older cards help me to find room for vengevines (vengevine + Greenbelt Rampager = profit), faithless looting and some other stuff to use this plan (Bloodghast can be another candidate).
So if you want to play older cards exploit the synergy between vengevine + Greenbelt Rampager!!
Anyways I think the deck is well tuned and can be a serious contender against some other modern decks.
Winding Constrictor doesn't actually add energy as it only adds a counter to a permanent while energy is tied to a player.So it basically only acts as Hardened Scales in the deck.
I stand by what I said about the creatures, on their own they are not modern-playable (except for Voltaic Brawler) and no "Zoo" in "Modern" would even consider playing them and the energy synergy doesn't do enough to compensate for it.
You are not even using any of the good r/g cards (removal, burn and mana dorks) because of the energy theme.
Beside of that, not giving much attention to the energy theme and only using it when available, we are playing:
2/3 or 3/3 creatures for 2
2/1 creatures that make you draw and have evasion
3/4 creature for 3
5/4 creature with hexproof for 4
As you can see the deck has lot of creatures (much more than removal other decks have, and you only need to spend the minimun resources to masimize the benefits)
And this is only simplifying the deck, now you add Synergy and things begin to run out of control easily and quickly.
That being said, I think the Nissas are out of place in the original list. You want all your spells to add energy or pump hard (with evasion). I believe Longtusk Cub is a very bad card in modern too : It's unlikely that it will connect, and he grows for too high of a price.
You probably want to build the deck in the way of Infect, in the familiy of "pump-effects" archetypes. For example, you absolutely need evasion, therefore Temur Battle Rage is exactly what you need if you play red. The 3/4 and the Hydra will be chumped forever otherwise.
Nissa are there for the synergy with the snake although as you said could be replaced with something better.
ABout cub, they are neccesary to spend all the energy you get with the elephant becoming a monster really fast. The cubs are not bad here, believe me.
Anyways I'll try to find something better to replace Nissa, Any idea or suggestion??
#Another decent 2-drop option is Avatar of the Resolute.
#For 1-drops there are the usual options of: Kird Ape (or Wild Nacatl with a white shockland) and Goblin Guide.
Attune with Aether is not worth a card slot, it can be either more burn (Lightning Bolt is a no brainer) or Birds of Paradise if you want to play 4-drop creatures early or Collected Company.
Harnessed Lightning isn't good enough as removal, you can use Terminate or Abrupt Decay.
Other options are burn spells like Atarka's Command or even Tribal Flames in a 5-color build.
Bristling Hydra is a worse 4-drop than Thrun, the Last Troll, Thunderbreak Regent, Ghor-Clan Rampager (also a pump spell) or even creatures like Chameleon Colossus, Polukranos, World Eater, Spellbreaker Behemoth or Iwamori of the Open Fist.
Spirits
If you want to bash a deck idea, at least explain why you think the idea is bad rather than name-dropping cards that have nothing to do with the archetype. This is argument from authority, and therefore fallacy. You could've at least named cards that produce energy...
I won't comment on the rest of your post as it's not even worth addressing.
Eldrazi was an extremely pushed tribe, so im not sure this is sarcasm.
Also Infect counters are also affected by the snake's ability so I wouldnt run it here. I think Energy is not a great mechanic for a deck, just an ability that exists on some cards that could be playable. The energy costs are more than Id be willing to pay in modern because often the bodies these abilities exist on are underpar and the only 2 Id realistically play in modern are Voltaic Brawler and greenbelt rampager. Also this is just a standard deck. This doesnt play anything that keeps you on par in modern like lightning bolt. Though Id be interested in IDsurge's list
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
I'm welcome to any constructive idea that try to help so please keep posting constructive suggestions.
Lot of thanks
Electrostatic Pummeler, Vines, Become Immense, and 3 Energy is lethal. I messed around with it, and once I was able to spike a guy I moved on. :]
Spirits
Anyways lot of thanks for your suggestion ;), any constructive one is really welcome
PD: I was thinking if Aethersphere Harvester could be a good addition here. It has evasion, a big butt and can be crewed with any creature and can help you to race other aggro decks as well
Spirits
Also Aethergeode Miner have synergy spending the energy you get and netting you draw cards with the bond. Also is a very aggresive creature so is something to look at too.
So from the list:
4 Greenbelt Rampager
4 Fatal Push
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Winding Constrictor
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Bristling Hydra
4 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
4 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
we can remove the 4 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar and harnessed ligtning and Glint-Sleeve Siphoner because our draw engine now would be the Bond and then play something like:
4 Greenbelt Rampager
4 Fatal Push
4 Aethergeode Miner
4 Winding Constrictor
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Bristling Hydra
2 tangleroot
3 Elemental Bond
4 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
With that the deck is able to draw the whole deck and beat with a gigantic cub, although right now have lot less removal. Including vengevines somehow would also be great here because you will draw from them too. Perhaps a less energyu centric deck could also work, something like:
4 Faithless Looting
4 Fatal Push
4 Aethergeode Miner
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Harnessed Lightning
2 tangleroot
3 Elemental Bond
4 Vengevine
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswepth heath
4 Aether Hub
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Stomping grounds
With the tangleroot combo you can even play something that net you life when a creature comes or leave the battlefield like any sisters (Soul Warden, Soul's Attendant or the so) or Outpost Siege to go for infinite life or damage also
What do you think??
Do you know any other options??
About the changes you suggest:
Removing red seems rasonable but the we loose 4 removal that provide energy, and the lootings so vengevines you draw in you opening hand are dead cards beside of the fact that looting help a lot too to avoid bad hands and the so.
About adding 4xCommune with the Gods, 4xGather the pack, I think the latest one would be better and don't know if I need 8 dig spells in the deck also.
I'm not sure why you suggested 4xRenegade Rallier. Why do the deck need this guy???
The last point: Swap FP for PtE. All of us know how good is PtE but FP seems better in a deck like this one that can achieve revolt so easily. Also giving a land to the opponent is not something I've liked ever so not sure about this change also.
The good thing is that if I follow your suggestions the deck would be GW so would have a more stable manabase.
Beside of that loosing Servant of the Conduit is something I'm not sure because the deck looses Speed and a way to generate early energy.
So you suggest something like:
4 Path to Exile
4 Soul Warden
2 Soul's Attendant
4 Commune with the Gods
4 Gather the pack
4 Aethergeode Miner
4 Longtusk Cub
2 tangleroot
3 Elemental Bond
4 Vengevine
4 Windswepth heath
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Aether Hub
1 Plains
1 Stomping grounds
The deck seems not bad but not sure if it's fast enough and loosing FP make it less funny
Any other ideas or suggestions??
4 Path to Exile
4 Essence Warden
4 Gather the pack
4 Noose Constrictor
4 Aethergeode Miner
4 Longtusk Cub
2 tangleroot
3 Elemental Bond
4 Vengevine
4 Bristling Hydra
4 Windswepth heath
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Aether Hub
1 Plains
1 Temple Garden
I'm not sure if the counter strategy is not also good so perhaps a Gb deck wold be also nice. Something like:
4 Fatal Push
2 Essence Warden
4 Gravecrawler
4 Grisly Salvage
4 Winding Constrictor
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Aethergeode Miner
4 Longtusk Cub
2 tangleroot
3 Elemental Bond
4 Vengevine
4 verdant catacombs
4 Blossoming Marsh
4 Aether Hub
1 Plains
1 Verdant Catacomb