Anyone gone heavy on the Blessed Alliance I was running this in Tournament practice last night, and was fortunate to get Infect, Boggles (oh the tears...) Tron, and it did real work in all 3 games.
Anyone gone heavy on the Blessed Alliance I was running this in Tournament practice last night, and was fortunate to get Infect, Boggles (oh the tears...) Tron, and it did real work in all 3 games.
Blessed Alliance is indeed a sweet card. I don't think I'd main-deck it with all the spot removal we have access to, but it's a killer sideboard card.
The more I experiment with this shell, he more I think there may be a very divergent set of ways to build it. Delver is usually Tempo, meaning 1) play cheap threats, then 2) counteract the opponent's plays. But this might actually work as an aggro-midrange build, meaning we still play cheap threats, but we focus more on discard than permission and play a more tapout game. I think Dark Confidant might actually work well in that kind of list, and now having 3 I can start testing with it some. Something to keep in mind as we develop ideas.
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WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
You have a thread for the Esper Midrange build? I've been working more on that one lately.
I do not, unfortunately. I don't have as firm a grasp of how that kind of deck would operate. I imagine Snapcaster, of course, plus Tasigur, Kalitas, Lingering Souls, and some discard would be a good starting place, although Kalitas seems more of a liability with Fatal Push's printing. With an alternate version swapping out the curve-toppers for Dark Confidant and ≈2 Smuggler's Copter, plus Logic Knot and/or Murderous Cut.
The closest thing we have active on MTGsalvation AFAIK is Esper Transcendent. I think it has promise, despite my not being thrilled with its namesake card.
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WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
Hello my Esper friends! I have an update on how my esper delver progress is coming! So far, Geist is good, but I don't like it main. Seems good in some grindy matchups, but I'm not liking it overall. I think someone mentioned it earlier, but I will be trying Smuggler's Copter as well. Seems ok if delver cant flip, and interacts well with Lingering Souls(on both sides). I'll try 3, and let y'all know how it goes.
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How I like to win games:
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Burn
Titanshift
Copycat (Given up currently, not entirely sure what it needs)
Hello my Esper friends! I have an update on how my esper delver progress is coming! So far, Geist is good, but I don't like it main. Seems good in some grindy matchups, but I'm not liking it overall. I think someone mentioned it earlier, but I will be trying Smuggler's Copter as well. Seems ok if delver cant flip, and interacts well with Lingering Souls(on both sides). I'll try 3, and let y'all know how it goes.
Sounds great!
Definitely agreed on Geist of Saint Traft. GoST can be a good sideboard plan, but since it only works well when we're the aggressor, I think that's where it belongs for us. (More aggressive beatdown decks like Bant can definitely get away with it MD, however.)
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WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
I have been testing the Copters in a couple different matchups, and I'm not sure how I like it. It's won me a few games, but not anything radically significant. And to those suggesting Mentor, I've played Geist in this build, and one of the major problems with it is it's mana cost, the same as mentor. Especially no with no Probe to help guarantee some value out of the Mentor, I don't care for the idea much. I feel there is another threat idea out there I'm missing. I want one more good threat along with Tasigur, Delver, and Souls. Any idea gents?
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How I like to win games:
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Burn
Titanshift
Copycat (Given up currently, not entirely sure what it needs)
I've been testing 2 Selfless Spirits, which have been great. An evasive beater that protects your board from spot removal and even wipes does a lot of work in this list. The drawback I've found so far is that it's sometimes a little awkward when we're the control deck or if our opponent is 100% uninteractive.
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WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
I have been testing the deck on cockatrice and so far I like it, it feels less aggressive than grixis but more resilient. I haven't tested Mentor, but I think it can work without much support, but would be better in a build with some Surgical Extractions main... imagine turn 2 Collective Brutality discarding souls, turn 3 mentor and surgical...
Abzan Coco 2-1: Lots of removal, Dispel, and Spell Snare were too strong.
Bant Eldrazi 2-1: I don't think this is a good matchup but I had turn 2 Spreading Seas for his Eldrazi Temple in games two and three.
RW Planeswalker Prison 0-2: I wasn't ever in these games.
GW Dudes 2-1: Kind of like the first round but without the Viscera Seer combo.
Jund 0-2: My deck didn't behave at all. In game one I survived two Liliana ultimates and lost with my opponent at one life.
Living End 2-0: His deck let him down a bit but I think post board I had the counter magic to handle this.
RW Plansewalker Prison 2-1: Same as my round 3 opponent but this time his deck just couldn't draw what it needed.
Merfolk 0-2: Kind of a bummer to end on a loss against what feels like a good matchup for me.
The deck clearly has something going for it although I did manage to dodge Tron, RG ramp, and mostly got lucky against Bant Eldrazi. Lingering Souls is great at stalling for time, getting value from Thought Scour, stabilizing, and pushing damage. Fatal Push is a good card but it isn't a Lightning Bolt replacement. There were a lot of games where removal was totally dead but a Bolt would have been useful, or having real reach would have helped close out the game. Playing eight spells that ONLY kill creatures meant that sometimes I had a lot of dead cards in my deck. Collective Brutality was a flexible card but two felt like too many.
I do think there's potential here but my list is certainly not tuned. I'm not sure how to reconcile needing a critical mass of removal spells and limiting dead cards in non-creature based match-ups.
I'm not sure about Remand here, it seems better in a deck with PtE than Mana Leak, and Logic Knot is too taxing on the GY.
Maybe some number of Countersquall can be better in the MD.
The last tournament I went to I had 10 maindeck removal spells and my match-ups were varied enough that a lot of times I felt like I had 8+ dead cards in my main game one. I trimmed my removal down this time and added the discard package with the hope that I'd have less totally dead cards in my game ones and then upgrading them post-board. Overall I'd say the discard spells were pretty neutral - they were useful in my opening hand but at no point did they make or break a game.
Grixis Delver 1-2: This was a cool list that splashed White for Lingering Souls out of the board. I mulliganed to five in the third game, kept a one lander with a Delver, and drew four straight lands.
Abzan Coco 2-0: I think this is a pretty good match-up.
Naya Revolt Bushwhacker Zoo 0-2: Another mulligan to five where I just ran out of cards to fight his stuff.
Grixis Delver 2-1: Some very fun, grindy games where Lingering Souls was the MVP.
Naya Revolt Bushwhacker Zoo 1-2: Lingering Souls feels like it should be good here but two 1/1s can't trade profitably with all the three toughness creatures he has (Wild Nacatl, Narnam Renegade, Kird Ape) and neither can Snapcaster Mage. I really just needed more removal spells.
RG Scapeshift 0-2: In the second game I Thoughtsiezed a Chalice of the Void on turn two from a pretty mediocre hand but he drew another off the top and locked me out.
It was unfortunate that most of my games this time were against decks where a lot of main-deck removal would have been good. I felt a little unlucky to mulligan to five in the deciding games of rounds one and three so I'm not too down on the overall bad result. I'm not sure if I'd keep the discard in the deck or not. I sided some or all of it out almost every game but that was sort of the plan anyway.
I'm thinking about maybe replacing the discard with a third Path to Exile, a second Collective Brutality, a Dispel, and two Sleight of Hands.
I've been testing 2 Selfless Spirits, which have been great. An evasive beater that protects your board from spot removal and even wipes does a lot of work in this list. The drawback I've found so far is that it's sometimes a little awkward when we're the control deck or if our opponent is 100% uninteractive.
Quick browse through the <= 4 CMC options that survive Lightning Bolt (some/all of these are more or less obviously terrible):
Has anyone tried running Zealous Persecution? It seems like it might be a strong finisher, something this deck lacks without Lightning Bolt and one of the biggest issues I've had. It certainly could have been a great trump card against the Bushwhacker Zoo decks I lost to last weekend and could also help ruin combat math against other black decks running Tasigur and Angler, Tarmogoyf decks, and Eldrazi.
I really have no idea what I want to do with the sideboard (been a long time since I've played Esper), and I'm still not sure about the main deck, but it doesn't look terrible. Thoughtseize/IOK replace counterspells and push proactive disruption, TS helps with life loss for Shadow, Push and Path are great removal, Charm acts as recursion for Delver/DS and bonus removal, Lingering Souls buys time with blockers or attacks in the air, Serum and Scour draw cards and fill yard, and Tasigur/Snap still hanging out. Orzhov Charm should do wonders bringing back milled or killed Delvers and Shadows. After board, could switch to grindy controlling style. Surgicals + discard breaks up synergies, Countersquall and Dispel for "spells matter" decks, AV for grindy games, EE and Damnation for wipes (BB more consistent to make than WWU), Stony Silence for Affinity and Tron. No idea how this will actually play, but I may sleeve up something similar as soon as I get my hands on some Shadows. They will likely fall below $5 after MM17 release.
I really like that direction, cfusion! Orzhov Charm is a great touch!
I'd also been brewing some jank Myth Realized shells, but honestly that seems much stronger in straight U/W and doesn't mix too well with Delver. (Spreading Seas is great there, but the package leads to too many Delver whiffs.)
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
It does feel bad not being able to Traverse or play Goyf, but hopefully it's made up for by the GY synergies of bringing back stuff with Charm or flashing back Lingering Souls. Between Snap, Charm, and Souls, stuff in the yard might as well be in our hand, so Scour kind of reads like "Draw 2.5 cards." Bitterblossom could be another inclusion because it buys time, attacks, and reduces life for Shadow... Dunno. Looks close, but not quite there. It's still an inherently fair deck with no burn and only a couple high value beatsticks.
I know this is probably a dumb question, but has anyone tried out Curious Homoculus/Voracious Reader? I've been trying to make Esper Delver work and I tried him as a 2-of and was really impressed. Between Thought-Scour and such he's reliably flipping 50-50% the turn after I drop him, and his backside is damn near insane with Lingering Souls(3 Mana to cast both halfs+ turns him into a 5/6).
Spirits
Blessed Alliance is indeed a sweet card. I don't think I'd main-deck it with all the spot removal we have access to, but it's a killer sideboard card.
The more I experiment with this shell, he more I think there may be a very divergent set of ways to build it. Delver is usually Tempo, meaning 1) play cheap threats, then 2) counteract the opponent's plays. But this might actually work as an aggro-midrange build, meaning we still play cheap threats, but we focus more on discard than permission and play a more tapout game. I think Dark Confidant might actually work well in that kind of list, and now having 3 I can start testing with it some. Something to keep in mind as we develop ideas.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
You have a thread for the Esper Midrange build? I've been working more on that one lately.
Spirits
I do not, unfortunately. I don't have as firm a grasp of how that kind of deck would operate. I imagine Snapcaster, of course, plus Tasigur, Kalitas, Lingering Souls, and some discard would be a good starting place, although Kalitas seems more of a liability with Fatal Push's printing. With an alternate version swapping out the curve-toppers for Dark Confidant and ≈2 Smuggler's Copter, plus Logic Knot and/or Murderous Cut.
The closest thing we have active on MTGsalvation AFAIK is Esper Transcendent. I think it has promise, despite my not being thrilled with its namesake card.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
I'm not huge on the Walker lists.
Spirits
Do it!
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Burn
Titanshift
Copycat (Given up currently, not entirely sure what it needs)
Legacy:
Burn
B/R Reanimator (slowly building
EDH:
Sedris Control/Reanimation
Sounds great!
Definitely agreed on Geist of Saint Traft. GoST can be a good sideboard plan, but since it only works well when we're the aggressor, I think that's where it belongs for us. (More aggressive beatdown decks like Bant can definitely get away with it MD, however.)
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Spirits
Monastery Mentor is a definite possibility, although I'd say it feels better in a dedicated midrange build than this one.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Burn
Titanshift
Copycat (Given up currently, not entirely sure what it needs)
Legacy:
Burn
B/R Reanimator (slowly building
EDH:
Sedris Control/Reanimation
I'd dig a slim Stoneforge Mystic package, but alas.
I've been testing 2 Selfless Spirits, which have been great. An evasive beater that protects your board from spot removal and even wipes does a lot of work in this list. The drawback I've found so far is that it's sometimes a little awkward when we're the control deck or if our opponent is 100% uninteractive.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Burn
Titanshift
Copycat (Given up currently, not entirely sure what it needs)
Legacy:
Burn
B/R Reanimator (slowly building
EDH:
Sedris Control/Reanimation
Flipping Delvers since 2011
MY DECKS
Modern: UR Izzet Delver
Pauper: U Delver Faeries | R Red Burn | GInfect
Commander: WB Athreos, God of Passage | UR Keranos Spellslinger | GWU Derevi, Tempo Tactician | BGU Tasigur, the Golden Fang | RW Feather, the Redeemed
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Lingering Souls
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Gurmag Angler
1 Vendilion Clique
Cantrips (8)
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
4 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dismember
1 Go for the Throat
Counter Spells (5)
3 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
1 Go for the Throat
2 Countersquall
2 Dispel
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Painful Truths
3 Stony Silence
3 Spreading Seas
Took this list to SCG states today and went 5-3
The deck clearly has something going for it although I did manage to dodge Tron, RG ramp, and mostly got lucky against Bant Eldrazi. Lingering Souls is great at stalling for time, getting value from Thought Scour, stabilizing, and pushing damage. Fatal Push is a good card but it isn't a Lightning Bolt replacement. There were a lot of games where removal was totally dead but a Bolt would have been useful, or having real reach would have helped close out the game. Playing eight spells that ONLY kill creatures meant that sometimes I had a lot of dead cards in my deck. Collective Brutality was a flexible card but two felt like too many.
I do think there's potential here but my list is certainly not tuned. I'm not sure how to reconcile needing a critical mass of removal spells and limiting dead cards in non-creature based match-ups.
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Snapcaster Mage
1x Vendilion Clique
3x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1x Gurmag Angler
Instant (17)
3x Fatal Push
4x Path to Exile
3x Spell Snare
4x Thought Scour
3x Remand
Sorcery (10)
4x Serum Visions
2x Collective Brutality
4x Lingering Souls
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
1x Marsh Flats
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Godless Shrine
1x Watery Grave
2x Seachrome Coast
1x Darkslick Shores
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Swamp
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Countersquall
2x Dispel
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Collective Brutality
2x Stony Silence
2x Esper Charm
2x Anguished Unmaking
I'm not sure about Remand here, it seems better in a deck with PtE than Mana Leak, and Logic Knot is too taxing on the GY.
Maybe some number of Countersquall can be better in the MD.
The deck looks pretty good though it is more of an "Esper Midrange" deck.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Lingering Souls
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Gurmag Angler
Cantrips (8)
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
4 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
1 Collective Brutality
Counter Spells (4)
3 Spell Snare
1 Deprive
Discard (5)
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtsieze
1 Path to Exile
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Countersquall
2 Dispel
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Painful Truths
3 Stony Silence
3 Spreading Seas
The last tournament I went to I had 10 maindeck removal spells and my match-ups were varied enough that a lot of times I felt like I had 8+ dead cards in my main game one. I trimmed my removal down this time and added the discard package with the hope that I'd have less totally dead cards in my game ones and then upgrading them post-board. Overall I'd say the discard spells were pretty neutral - they were useful in my opening hand but at no point did they make or break a game.
It was unfortunate that most of my games this time were against decks where a lot of main-deck removal would have been good. I felt a little unlucky to mulligan to five in the deciding games of rounds one and three so I'm not too down on the overall bad result. I'm not sure if I'd keep the discard in the deck or not. I sided some or all of it out almost every game but that was sort of the plan anyway.
I'm thinking about maybe replacing the discard with a third Path to Exile, a second Collective Brutality, a Dispel, and two Sleight of Hands.
Quick browse through the <= 4 CMC options that survive Lightning Bolt (some/all of these are more or less obviously terrible):
If you want to go to 5 mana Baneslayer or Batterskull basically dominate the other options unless you want to be Docent of Perfection guy ;).
1x Darkslick Shores
4x Flooded Strand
1x Godless Shrine
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
1x Marsh Flats
1x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
Instant (13)
3x Fatal Push
3x Orzhov Charm
3x Path to Exile
4x Thought Scour
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
4x Serum Visions
4x Thoughtseize
Creature (13)
4x Death's Shadow
4x Delver of Secrets
3x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3x Ancestral Vision
3x Countersquall
1x Damnation
2x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Stony Silence
2x Surgical Extraction
I really have no idea what I want to do with the sideboard (been a long time since I've played Esper), and I'm still not sure about the main deck, but it doesn't look terrible. Thoughtseize/IOK replace counterspells and push proactive disruption, TS helps with life loss for Shadow, Push and Path are great removal, Charm acts as recursion for Delver/DS and bonus removal, Lingering Souls buys time with blockers or attacks in the air, Serum and Scour draw cards and fill yard, and Tasigur/Snap still hanging out. Orzhov Charm should do wonders bringing back milled or killed Delvers and Shadows. After board, could switch to grindy controlling style. Surgicals + discard breaks up synergies, Countersquall and Dispel for "spells matter" decks, AV for grindy games, EE and Damnation for wipes (BB more consistent to make than WWU), Stony Silence for Affinity and Tron. No idea how this will actually play, but I may sleeve up something similar as soon as I get my hands on some Shadows. They will likely fall below $5 after MM17 release.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I'd also been brewing some jank Myth Realized shells, but honestly that seems much stronger in straight U/W and doesn't mix too well with Delver. (Spreading Seas is great there, but the package leads to too many Delver whiffs.)
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/delving-shadows-in-modern/
Here is another idea of an " Esper Delver Shadow" build:
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Death's Shadow
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Spells (26)
2x Spell Snare
2x Path to Exile
4x Serum Visions
4x Thought Scour
4x Thoughtseize
4x Fatal Push
2x Mana Leak
2x Orzhov Charm
2x Lingering Souls
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
4x Marsh Flats
2x Watery Grave
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Godless Shrine
1x Island
1x Plains
1x Swamp
2x Stony Silence
1x Celestial Purge
1x Path to Exile
2x Lingering Souls
3x Stubborn Denial
2x Collective Brutality
1x Fragmentize
1x Hurkyl’s Recall
2x Surgical Extraction