Recently I've been watching the new cards and new interactions, and the new Expertise cycle reignited my interest in Brain in a Jar + Beck // Call. Just off a quick look over, I came up with this list.
I've found it to be awfully consistent with all the Cantrips and draw spells, and easy to keep the pressure off of your back with the new premier removal spell in Fatal Push. A lot of decks find it hard to overcome 7 1/1s and four cards late game. It can also happen as early as turn four, but Sram's Expertise is often the better card later.
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Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
To build on my old list, im taking out the Yahenni's Expertise for another Sram's Expertise for a more consistent combo. It's also just a good card by itself.
I've also found that Brain in a Jar, while mainly in the deck for combo purposes, is actually very good for saving Mana later in the game and casting your sorcery spells at instant speed. It feels really good to Inquisition your opponent on their upkeep, or verdict their stuff away before combat.
Im also seriously considering Hour of Reckoning as a 1 or 2 of. Probably only as a one. It's actually extremely convenient. If you resolve Beck // Call off of Sram's Expertise, you draw four cards to dig for it, then you have the perfect amount of creatures to fully convoke it. They can't attack the first turn anyway, so it's not like you're missing out unless they have a haste threat. I don't know, but it seems like a possibly insane card in the list. It also seems like it could just be a "win more" card, butI've gotten into situations where that play would save me. It seems like a good play against: Affinity, Bant Eldrazi, Jund, Death's Shadow, Knightfall, Abzan Company, Merfolk, Dredge, Infect, Eldrazi and Taxes, Elves. You name it. Bolded matchups where it's conceivable that your opponent would just kill you next turn anyway, either by forcing chump blocks or not even caring about your blockers.
Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
To build on my old list, im taking out the Yahenni's Expertise for another Sram's Expertise for a more consistent combo. It's also just a good card by itself.
I've also found that Brain in a Jar, while mainly in the deck for combo purposes, is actually very good for saving Mana later in the game and casting your sorcery spells at instant speed. It feels really good to Inquisition your opponent on their upkeep, or verdict their stuff away before combat.
Im also seriously considering Hour of Reckoning as a 1 or 2 of. Probably only as a one. It's actually extremely convenient. If you resolve Beck // Call off of Sram's Expertise, you draw four cards to dig for it, then you have the perfect amount of creatures to fully convoke it. They can't attack the first turn anyway, so it's not like you're missing out unless they have a haste threat. I don't know, but it seems like a possibly insane card in the list. It also seems like it could just be a "win more" card, butI've gotten into situations where that play would save me. It seems like a good play against: Affinity, Bant Eldrazi, Jund, Death's Shadow, Knightfall, Abzan Company, Merfolk, Dredge, Infect, Eldrazi and Taxes, Elves. You name it. Bolded matchups where it's conceivable that your opponent would just kill you next turn anyway, either by forcing chump blocks or not even caring about your blockers.
I think you're overthinking things too much. More often than not, one resolved Beck // Call can end the game. If anything, I would toss in 4 Bitterblossom or go with a Thopter Foundry + Sword of the Meek gameplan to not only have more alternative ways to win, but keep you alive against goyfs while you dig out answers.
And I actually like Azban more than Esper for this archetype.
To build on my old list, im taking out the Yahenni's Expertise for another Sram's Expertise for a more consistent combo. It's also just a good card by itself.
I've also found that Brain in a Jar, while mainly in the deck for combo purposes, is actually very good for saving Mana later in the game and casting your sorcery spells at instant speed. It feels really good to Inquisition your opponent on their upkeep, or verdict their stuff away before combat.
Im also seriously considering Hour of Reckoning as a 1 or 2 of. Probably only as a one. It's actually extremely convenient. If you resolve Beck // Call off of Sram's Expertise, you draw four cards to dig for it, then you have the perfect amount of creatures to fully convoke it. They can't attack the first turn anyway, so it's not like you're missing out unless they have a haste threat. I don't know, but it seems like a possibly insane card in the list. It also seems like it could just be a "win more" card, butI've gotten into situations where that play would save me. It seems like a good play against: Affinity, Bant Eldrazi, Jund, Death's Shadow, Knightfall, Abzan Company, Merfolk, Dredge, Infect, Eldrazi and Taxes, Elves. You name it. Bolded matchups where it's conceivable that your opponent would just kill you next turn anyway, either by forcing chump blocks or not even caring about your blockers.
I think you're overthinking things too much. More often than not, one resolved Beck // Call can end the game. If anything, I would toss in 4 Bitterblossom or go with a Thopter Foundry + Sword of the Meek gameplan to not only have more alternative ways to win, but keep you alive against goyfs while you dig out answers.
And I actually like Azban more than Esper for this archetype.
Esper is better at making Brain in a Jar relevant, and green doesn't have too many spells worth investing in. Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse at most, but Esper has better alternatives.
I agree I might be over thinking this, but Ive been in scenarios where resolving Beck // Call just isn't enough to win. Hour of Reckoning just seems too convenient in some matchups to ignore.
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Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Just saw this thread, and I'm really glad people are looking into Esper Jar (a guy from reddit that I've discussed it with a lot suggested the name Brain Control, which I'll run with)!
Man, I'm glad someone else is playing a deck like this and seeing Jar as a card that actually does things besides the combo! So many people I talk to about versions of the deck are skimping on Jars in favor of Expertise cards and saying that they don't want to ever draw 2 Jars. If you're on a draw-go style gameplan, having 2 Jars is play is actually amazing. You can 1) Alternate the scries on endstep to hold up counters and still be able to fuse a topdecked Beck 2) Scry one up and down while keeping the other on a specific number as an answer--for example keeping one Jar on 3 to hold up instant speed Verdict to effectively close out the game against a deck like Affinity. Also, if you have an Esper Charm in your hand and just tick a Jar up to 2 (with no Beck...say a 2-mana draw spell or nothing), then drawing a second one on your fifth turn and making your opponent discard 4 can be totally nuts by matchup.
I played the original list that Saffronolive ran on stream, but I've made some changes around AER as well. I liked the core of the deck (here it is for reference), but the the combination of metagame changes and extra early interaction (push) has driven me to swap the Deprives out for Cryptics. That was what I did originally, but I ended up actually preferring Deprive for a long time, and the mana cheating from Jar does actually help balance out Deprive's drawback. It's still viable, but I'm on the Cryptic kick for the moment.
You'll notice that I'm not running any Yahenni's Expertise. I honestly just think Verdict is way too good as an instant (although it's amazing in general) to pass up as my go-to sweeper, and as you mentioned above, Sram's is...actually a really good card for what we want to do. I don't think I want more than 2 copies of an Expertise in the deck right now because in general I'd rather just hold up interaction and endstep Esper Charm T4 than mainphase it to add 3 1/1's. In some situations that's fine, but in general I like having more Jars than Expertise effects. One sweet thing about the Expertises, though, is that they smooth out your Jar curve really well. If you have, say, a Sram's in hand with no Beck, you can tick up Jar past 1 and still fuse Beck//Call at instant speed off your 4-spot. It lets you Beck 3 times between 2 and 6. You can endstep Esper Charm your opponent off Jar for one mana, then untap and Sram's to Esper Charm again for one mana while holding up other interaction...it's crazy. Sram's also gives you a pretty obscene aggro plan against BGx that doesn't rely on Jar (especially vs Jund which has both decays and K Commands), and that's a matchup where YE doesn't really do anything beyond kill Souls tokens (that we're pretty good at handling).
Anyway, I've been thinking about doing some commentary over a comp league on MODO if anyone would be interested in watching it. I was actually going to make a thread for the archetype to go with it, but I'm glad someone beat me to it I do have gameplay videos floating around somewhere that I grabbed before the update cut us off old replays as well that I might be able to find/post. I've had a couple people contact me about the deck, so I'll let them know there's a thread up now to help get the discussion going! The core idea of cheating out Beck in an Esper deck is legitimately competitive, and I wanna hear more about what people are doing with it.
Just saw this thread, and I'm really glad people are looking into Esper Jar (a guy from reddit that I've discussed it with a lot suggested the name Brain Control, which I'll run with)!
Man, I'm glad someone else is playing a deck like this and seeing Jar as a card that actually does things besides the combo! So many people I talk to about versions of the deck are skimping on Jars in favor of Expertise cards and saying that they don't want to ever draw 2 Jars. If you're on a draw-go style gameplan, having 2 Jars is play is actually amazing. You can 1) Alternate the scries on endstep to hold up counters and still be able to fuse a topdecked Beck 2) Scry one up and down while keeping the other on a specific number as an answer--for example keeping one Jar on 3 to hold up instant speed Verdict to effectively close out the game against a deck like Affinity. Also, if you have an Esper Charm in your hand and just tick a Jar up to 2 (with no Beck...say a 2-mana draw spell or nothing), then drawing a second one on your fifth turn and making your opponent discard 4 can be totally nuts by matchup.
I played the original list that Saffronolive ran on stream, but I've made some changes around AER as well. I liked the core of the deck (here it is for reference), but the the combination of metagame changes and extra early interaction (push) has driven me to swap the Deprives out for Cryptics. That was what I did originally, but I ended up actually preferring Deprive for a long time, and the mana cheating from Jar does actually help balance out Deprive's drawback. It's still viable, but I'm on the Cryptic kick for the moment.
You'll notice that I'm not running any Yahenni's Expertise. I honestly just think Verdict is way too good as an instant (although it's amazing in general) to pass up as my go-to sweeper, and as you mentioned above, Sram's is...actually a really good card for what we want to do. I don't think I want more than 2 copies of an Expertise in the deck right now because in general I'd rather just hold up interaction and endstep Esper Charm T4 than mainphase it to add 3 1/1's. In some situations that's fine, but in general I like having more Jars than Expertise effects. One sweet thing about the Expertises, though, is that they smooth out your Jar curve really well. If you have, say, a Sram's in hand with no Beck, you can tick up Jar past 1 and still fuse Beck//Call at instant speed off your 4-spot. It lets you Beck 3 times between 2 and 6. You can endstep Esper Charm your opponent off Jar for one mana, then untap and Sram's to Esper Charm again for one mana while holding up other interaction...it's crazy. Sram's also gives you a pretty obscene aggro plan against BGx that doesn't rely on Jar (especially vs Jund which has both decays and K Commands), and that's a matchup where YE doesn't really do anything beyond kill Souls tokens (that we're pretty good at handling).
Anyway, I've been thinking about doing some commentary over a comp league on MODO if anyone would be interested in watching it. I was actually going to make a thread for the archetype to go with it, but I'm glad someone beat me to it I do have gameplay videos floating around somewhere that I grabbed before the update cut us off old replays as well that I might be able to find/post. I've had a couple people contact me about the deck, so I'll let them know there's a thread up now to help get the discussion going! The core idea of cheating out Beck in an Esper deck is legitimately competitive, and I wanna hear more about what people are doing with it.
Glad to see someone as excited as I am about the playability of the combo.
A few things to mention:
One, I can see your list is a very Esper controlish list, with lots of late game. My list is optimized to achieve the combo as fast as possible, and it can consistently fire it off turn four. It's really riding on the combo. Ive thrown in Inquisitions to Protect, and serum visions to dig for the combo. Now that I think about it, Esper Charm seems really good as an endstep turn three play to dig for pieces.
If you like jar with your list, try out Far // Away. It'll make you fall in love with BiaJ. Including it in my list means that I can consistently get huge value plays off of jars and Expertises. Not to mention far // Away is actually a good card against a lot of decks (Infect, Bant Eldrazi, etc). Haven't played enough to know for sure, but just intuitively, BiaJ seems like a power card in Control-v-Control matchups.
Never tried Logic Knot or Think Twice, how do they perform? Can't afford Snaps and Cryptics.
Another thing to mention is that my list is built to fight against Bant Eldrazi, which is my main playtester.
Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Yeah Far // Away is fantastic with Jar! I was running one before AER, but for the moment I'm trying out a couple Fatal Push in its place. I might end up going back though because it's definitely an amazing card. You're right that Jar is generally just very good in the Control matchups. The continual scry is really solid, and the mana/speed cheating generally gives you an edge in a matchup where both players are struggling to differentiate themselves--especially if both players are running Cryptics.
Our lists are clearly trying to do different things, which is cool. Basically, I'm trying to make the deck run as smoothly as possible when it doesn't combo, but you're getting the insane value plays earlier and more consistently than I am even if we both have the option to run as either the control or the beatdown in the early turns. It's possible that the most effective choice is a meta call as well. I'll try your list and see how it plays. When I've run discard and Remands lately I've been playing with a couple copies of Sorin, Solemn Visitor, which is definitely a card worth considering if you're running a lot of token generation.
Also, Esper Charm is an excellent card overall. You kind of want to tune your deck to run mostly at instant speed to maximize it, but the mind rot mode is actually nuts in a lot of situations. Pretty good in the Bant Eldrazi matchup if you're seeing a lot of that since it encourages them to play into your Verdicts. The random Blood Moon (even stony silence) hate is also something that I love about it. Even if you aren't holding up Esper Charm when Blood Moon gets cast, Jar more or less ensures that you'll be able to deal with it at some point (if you even need to...sometimes Jar lets us play through Blood Moon better than some of the decks that are trying to use it against us, lol).
I'm gonna do some more testing with the Control list in a few days and maybe post another version, but one thing I've noticed is that Cryptic might not be worth 3 slots if we're increasing our 4-drop count with Expertise cards. I think some number of Cryptic is still useful for the draw-go version (especially vs planeswalkers), but cutting one for a cheaper hard counter like Negate might be the look. I've also generally liked Spell Pierce a lot with Jar. Sure, drawing it late-game can be bad (though not always really), but a number of situations come up where you want to both play Jar and counter a non-creature T3 play (Lili, Karn, Blood Moon and then on the draw Jace, Nahiri, Chandra, Koth). It also protects against K Command on the draw if you run into a lot of Grixis (which I personally do). Affinity seems to be on the rise on MODO right now, which maybe won't last, but Pierce also doubles as an extra Spell Snare on the draw vs a turn 2 Cranial Plating, which is nice. Something to consider.
Has anyone considered Rise // Fall with Brain ? Getting to choose whichever mode you need with Brain seems pretty good.
"Rise" can be cast even without Brain and can bounce an opponent's creature (or your own S.Mage) and get back a dead Snapcaster Mage and "Fall" can be a kind of Hymn to Tourach with Brain at instant speed.
Has anyone considered Rise // Fall with Brain ? Getting to choose whichever mode you need with Brain seems pretty good.
"Rise" can be cast even without Brain and can bounce an opponent's creature (or your own S.Mage) and get back a dead Snapcaster Mage and "Fall" can be a kind of Hymn to Tourach with Brain in instant speed.
Part of what makes Brain and the Expertises so effective is they can fuse the cards. It becomes much less powerful if you can't. Both of the effects seem pretty mediocre in the shell. Not to say it doesn't warrant testing, I could be completely wrong. My gut tells me it doesn't do enough for the deck.
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Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Yeah I think it's a strong card in the right context, but besides not getting extra value I think the issue is that running Jar efficiently requires you to run as few creatures as possible, so Rise is automatically kind of limited. I'd have a gard time even fitting in 4 Snaps just to do the "bounce my own Snap get one back from the yard" stuff that Grixis sometimes landed when it ran one R//F. Because of that, I think Esper Charm is more appropriate as a "discard two" since the other two modes are both good. Also being able to drawstep it without Jar (and off Snap) is a big plus, even if the "random" factor on Fall can be a blowout. Definitely reasonable, though.
I think there's also theoretically a primarily Abzan deck in here as well. Maelstrom Pulse and Lingering Souls are both really good with Jar. My main concern is with not running much in the way of card selection, but the deckbuilding options are decent at least--IMO probably tied with Esper with the best (especially since we need at least two of WUG to be prominent so we can hardcast beck // call).
Yeah I think it's a strong card in the right context, but besides not getting extra value I think the issue is that running Jar efficiently requires you to run as few creatures as possible, so Rise is automatically kind of limited. I'd have a gard time even fitting in 4 Snaps just to do the "bounce my own Snap get one back from the yard" stuff that Grixis sometimes landed when it ran one R//F. Because of that, I think Esper Charm is more appropriate as a "discard two" since the other two modes are both good. Also being able to drawstep it without Jar (and off Snap) is a big plus, even if the "random" factor on Fall can be a blowout. Definitely reasonable, though.
I think there's also theoretically a primarily Abzan deck in here as well. Maelstrom Pulse and Lingering Souls are both really good with Jar. My main concern is with not running much in the way of card selection, but the deckbuilding options are decent at least--IMO probably tied with Esper with the best (especially since we need at least two of WUG to be prominent so we can hardcast beck // call).
Having the ability to hardcast Call is pretty important in my opinion. It adds some inevitability to the deck. Lingering Souls can be played in esper as well, It's not exclusive to abzan. In fact, I have a playset in the sideboard. If we play abzan or bant, I can see playing cantrip creatures to take advantage of beck.
Abzan seems to have the most variety of fuse cards.
The fuse cards worth considering.
Alive // Well seems very strong. Not only does it let us gain a ton of life if needed, it also gets us a 3/3 for the first jar activation.
Wear // Tear would be okay if we were in those colors. Generally you bring it in for one of its modes, not both, so its not great.
Supply // Demand is better than it looks. It triggers beck with it's Supply mode as much as you'd like. It also means you can cast demand off of jar's second activation because supply is 2 mana. Demand searches for Beck // Call, thats why you'd want it. If you're going all in in cantrip to victory then this is a card you'll want to run.
Down // Dirty seems like a great attrition engine. Imagine casing this off of Sram's Expertise or Yahenni's Expertise. You either get to stall the board or wipe the board, then you make your opponent discard two, and you can get back any card, or the expertise you just cast. Needs testing, but seems very powerful to me.
Ready // Willing is great for dealing with boardwipes, or against creature heavy aggro decks where deathtouch and lifelink make it impossible for your opponents to get anything done. I especially like this as a combat trick with vial. You cast both sides, get to untap your creatures, and give them indestructible, lifelink and deathtouch. That's just nasty.
Crime // Punishment is really interesting. You can cast Crime on vial's second activation , or off a expertise, which might be good in a Thoughtseize shell. What's interesting though is I'm pretty sure you can cast punishment for 0 off of jar or Expertise, wiping the board of 0 drops and tokens. Helps against lingering souls. Super secret affinity hate.
Hit // Run seems like a good finisher. You'd have to play either Birds of Paradise or jund colors to make it good though.
Trial // Error doesn't do enough in esper to warrant an inclusion.
Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Been testing out this deck in the all in version and it is very powerful. Completely unhinged Abzan and burn in my limited testing. I play against Lantern, and took game 1, lost game 2 and would have won game 3, but timed out. Flesh // Blood is a card I am considering in the board for decks that might use bridge.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Lingering Souls can be played in esper as well, It's not exclusive to abzan.
Absolutely, yeah. I was running a couple copies before Sram's came out and even the T4 hardcast Beck flashback Souls play is legit enough to move a gameplan forward. What I meant was more that, in Esper, it's hard not to run some copies of Esper Charm (traditionally the main draw to the colors for control), so that leaves our 3-drop space kind of tight. In Abzan Souls is likely the best thing we can be playing in that spot, althought Maelstrom Pulse is pretty nuts as a 1-mana instant. On that note, I think there are kind of two directions the Esper deck can go. One is to play the Control game and use the fuse cheating to stabilize and shift the moment we turn the corner up a couple of turns in a way that's not available to normal control. The other is to play a primarily token-based gameplan like the one Tom Ross recently discussed. I haven't really done due diligence to the token deck since AER came out, but I'll try giving it another shot. On of the things I like about the control version is that you never really feel out of the game; that is, there's usually at least some topdeck that puts stabilization in motion, and you never feel as if you're just sitting down to lose a specific matchup. With normal BW tokens...that's not always true, but 1) being weak in some matchups is a necessary condition of Magic as a game 2) it's possible that the added explosiveness from the mana cheating plays really does do a lot for tokens. At the very least, it benefits from having a higher percentage of solid plays off of Sram's Expertise (T3 Souls, T4 Sram's into Intangible Virtue seems great to me, for example), and Sorin is kind of a monster in a lot of contexts. I'm nottt sure Ancestral isn't a trap in that particular version, but maybe...
Regarding your list of potential fuse cards: awesome reference! I think Alive // Well could be especially interesting in a token-heavy version, since the decks you and I brewed aren't actually so likely to have a ton of creatures early. In the control deck, maybe having access to white means we should sideboard more normal (more independently functional) Burn answers like Timely or Kor Firewalker, but we could definitely test it. I love your idea of grinding out value with Down // Dirty. It's worth noting that you can't actually target the Expertise with Down//Dirty, though, (I think? correct me otherwise) since the free spell actually goes on the stack in the middle of the Expertise card's resolution. Even so, it could be cool in maybe a BUG deck splashing white for Call...wipe the board with Yahenni's, make your opponent discard, then get back some kind of disruption/removal/value play for dealing with the next wave of threats.
On a side note, I wonder if there's some cute Jeskai running Greater Gargadon and Kari Zev's Expertise. Say a Blink Riders mana base (that is, Jeskai with Flagstones) and a green splash. Gargadon generally would play well with Catch // Release, Boom // Bust, Kari Zev's itself, and chump blockers from Call. I looked at it yesterday and the Expertise/Jar/Fuse package seemed a little fat to stick into that kind of attrition deck, so I tabled it for the moment. Still cute and I really just want to crack fetches and Bust at instant speed with the fetch activations on the stack
Been testing out this deck in the all in version and it is very powerful.
What are you all in on? Flesh//Blood certainly seems cute in a Breaking // Entering deck. I guess Lantern would let you draw Spirit Guide (though only in game 2) so you'd have a target as well, but you might be just as well off putting a single green-producing land in the sideboard and running Grudge. Unsure.
Looked up the interaction, Down // Dirty does work with Sram's. Although I'm thinking Yahenni's might have a good place in a list that grinds the game like that.
Can you post the token list for reference? Don't have SCG premium.
Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Will def post the list as soon as I get home. Sorry about that. Played a couple games with it last night and it at least felt explosive if not stable.
On the downm/dirty note, when you say it works with Sram's, do you mean you can actually target the expertise card with Dirty, or do you mean that the fuse works generally? Because Dirty targets as it goes on the stack, so the expertise isn't in the yard yet to target...I think? If you can do it I'd be really interested in why that works.
Will def post the list as soon as I get home. Sorry about that. Played a couple games with it last night and it at least felt explosive if not stable.
On the downm/dirty note, when you say it works with Sram's, do you mean you can actually target the expertise card with Dirty, or do you mean that the fuse works generally? Because Dirty targets as it goes on the stack, so the expertise isn't in the yard yet to target...I think? If you can do it I'd be really interested in why that works.
Thanks for posting. I might be wrong on the Down // Dirty front. I was basing it off of Eternal Witness working with Expertises, but now that I think about it, it shouldn't work since E wit triggers when it enters. Dang, thought something good was going on there. Still though, a fuzed Down Dirty plus 3 1/1s or wiping the board is almost always enough to get you back in a hard game.
That list definitely looks strong. I'm just afraid of it going too far into the combo plan. Ancestral visions is a great card advantage engine, just not sure if it's redundant with Beck // Call in the deck. I think I'd probably rather Fuse Far // Away or some other card that takes the pressure off. I can see playing it in a deck with Yahenni's Expertise, but then the token plan seems counterintuitive.
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Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Yeah fusing Down/Dirty would still be amazing value even if it made them discard two and returned a land lol. Would just have been truly nutty if you could keep getting your Expertise enabler back haha.
On the tokens list…I agree that it’s a little strange lol. I definitely don’t quite grasp what Ancestral Vision is doing in there, but at the same time, the deck is trying to do something different and quite powerful. I’ve run a veryyy few games (4 lol) with the following list for fun:
Sideboard currently random to the point of being humiliating, but, forgetting what I lost to (I think Burn) my first game, I beat Burn, Eldrazi Tron, and Slivers with it, and the token/Virtue/Sorin plan is pretty sweet in its own right. I’d feel a little bad about playing the deck myself because it doesn’t really have a lot of ways to dig itself out of holes (beyond drawing running enabler into Beck), but there are a lot of busted early game sequences, which is always nice. Fun deck at least, and just a rough draft.
More relevantly, I 5-0’d another competitive league today with the following list:
You’ll notice the only difference between this list and the last 5-0 (maindeck) is that I cut the second Snap for a Spell Pierce. That card’s actually been overperforming for me lately, so it’s definitely worth considering by meta. The other change was that I cut one sideboard Surgical for a second Runed Halo. I was having some issues with the Eldrazi Tron matchup, and decided to cut what might be excessive graveyard hate (at the moment) for a card that can swing that particular pairing while also being generally useful against a number of decks. Actually eventually drew both against Eldrazi Tron in the league and it won me game 2. I’m still liking the 3/2 split of Jar and Sram’s, but I do run 4 Jar (and usually 1 Sram’s MD with 1 side) sometimes still. I was also running one copy of Far // Away for a little while over the third Cryptic, but I think I'm cutting it for the moment. The meta doesn't quite seem to require it, but it's an amazing option generally and an autoinclude when edicts are strong.
As a side note...I'm not even sure if I should be running the one Snapcaster. I think it's so good with Sram's that we probably want one, but we should make sure we don't get blinded by how good the card is overall in case it's not quite optimal.
The matches I played were:
Abzan (2-0)
Eldrazi Tron (2-0)
Death’s Shadow Jund (2-0)
Burn (2-1)
Death’s Shadow Jund (2-1)
Still planning on making some videos on the deck, haha. Think I’ll actually be able to do it next week, so hopefully that’ll be interesting.
Great results Slippaz! Good to see good results with the deck.
I can definitely see including Intangible Virtue in my list. It actually seems very powerful, because it does two things we want to accomplish with our tokens.
One, we want to end the game quickly. doubling the token size makes a massive difference, and it shortens the clock considerably.
Two, it makes us less vulnerable to ground threats. One of my problems in testing is I can't attack because the backswing from my opponent will just kill me. Intangible Virtue completely solves that problem while also being a more reliable card than Hour of Reckoning.
Sorin is extremely hard to deal with in my experience. I've played games where a resolved Sorin and a Shambling Vent bring my opponent back from the Dead. I'll try him out.
Spell Pierce does seem really good at the moment.
Far // Away seems good when Infect or Bant Eldrazi reach the top.
Want to note that GoST is a really good sideboard option against control opponents. It can really catch them off guard. It also helps in a lot of our bad matchups like Tron, Storm, and other unfair decks.
Hey, another idea for a list is Sultai.
Sultai could be a good list for Ancestral Visions and down dirty for an attrition engine.
And if we're getting super crazy, we could build a four color list for bring to light.
I can see a Witch (UBWG) list being fun. Trying to take advantage of Bring to light, down dirty, ancestral visions, and Beck Call all in one list.
Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Yeah Sorin is reallyyy strong, right? I'd never played with him before (only against), and man resolving one feels great. Think it's well worth thinking about. What you're saying about Virtue is exactly right. I'm fine having 1/1's in a Control setting where a portion of the time they're just there to stall still I Verdict a couple of them away anyway, but if we really want to block profitably Virtue is really good.
Just as a quick thing, I uploaded a replay of the deck grinding through a resolved Karn because of Beck. The opponent didn't quite play around Jar the way they needed to, but this isn't the first game I've had where Karn just stayed on the board and didn't beat us. Kind of a nice feeling lol. My win rate vs Tron is surprisingly high, even for Esper which generally does better against it than, say, Jeskai in the matchup. The Deprive deck is probably a little better here, but Cryptic's fine, and it's another matchup where Spell Pierce can be good.
Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Interesting BTL list. Certainly has some cool stuff going on, and I think that's generally the color combination we want. I mean, it's the one we're already playing, it just runs more than one card with green in it. Might mess with some kind of tutor effect myself to see how it goes.
I threw some videos together (with commentary) replaying the last comp league I did. Might be interesting if anyone gets a chance to check it out:
I really like your list and how you've taken a different spin on the idea. What you do about Release making you sac your Jar. Do you often have servo tokens to sacrifice? Aside from that it seems really sweet.
I'm thinking of adding one Research // Development to the main in the witch list so I can take advantage of Bring to Light as a tutor. I'll fill the sideboard with silver bullets for killing certain decks.
Here's what I'm thinking for my silver bullets:
Alive // Well for aggro decks. It's also a great card regardless with Jar. Also pretty sure it gains you 8 life with Sram's Expertise. Only reason it's not in the main is because its it broken like Beck // Call.
Memoricide for any combo deck. Also for any card that is too good against us.
Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Some times you sacrefice Brain in a Jar to Break // Enter. But it happens less often then you'd think, and often it dies not really matter. Compare it to playing yahennies expertese when there are no creatures on the board, that is also a dead card then.
More likly you can cast a 2 mana spell on the way to cast breaking // entering. Casting drawing 2 cards, beck // call or smallpox the turn before casting breaking // entering will often leave you on topp of resources compare to your opponent. Following with lingering souls is not as effecient, but it is not bad either.
With 12 cards that make between 3 and 4 tokens you will often float the board either going on the offense, or if you are in trouble, you can go on defense.
As you pointed out Sram's Expertese can function as sacrefising for artifacts.
The nice thing is once you start pulling ahead you get so many tokens and card drawing, while your opponent keeps loosing essential things like lands, creatures and cards in hand. I really recoment trying it out.
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3 Remand
3 Mana Leak
Draw/Cantrips:
4 Serum Visions
2 Esper Charm
Removal:
4 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
2 Far // Away
Boardwipe:
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Yahenni's Expertise
4 Brain in a Jar
4 Beck // Call
4 Sram's Expertise
Permission:
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
Lands:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Shambling Vent
1 Concealed Courtyard
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Seachrome Coast
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
I've found it to be awfully consistent with all the Cantrips and draw spells, and easy to keep the pressure off of your back with the new premier removal spell in Fatal Push. A lot of decks find it hard to overcome 7 1/1s and four cards late game. It can also happen as early as turn four, but Sram's Expertise is often the better card later.
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
SaffronOlive had a deck similar to this. I would recomend you see it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlHCwQAfrug
I am working on a version with Smallpox.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/768043-bird-pox
I've also found that Brain in a Jar, while mainly in the deck for combo purposes, is actually very good for saving Mana later in the game and casting your sorcery spells at instant speed. It feels really good to Inquisition your opponent on their upkeep, or verdict their stuff away before combat.
Im also seriously considering Hour of Reckoning as a 1 or 2 of. Probably only as a one. It's actually extremely convenient. If you resolve Beck // Call off of Sram's Expertise, you draw four cards to dig for it, then you have the perfect amount of creatures to fully convoke it. They can't attack the first turn anyway, so it's not like you're missing out unless they have a haste threat. I don't know, but it seems like a possibly insane card in the list. It also seems like it could just be a "win more" card, butI've gotten into situations where that play would save me. It seems like a good play against: Affinity, Bant Eldrazi, Jund, Death's Shadow, Knightfall, Abzan Company, Merfolk, Dredge, Infect, Eldrazi and Taxes, Elves. You name it. Bolded matchups where it's conceivable that your opponent would just kill you next turn anyway, either by forcing chump blocks or not even caring about your blockers.
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
I think you're overthinking things too much. More often than not, one resolved Beck // Call can end the game. If anything, I would toss in 4 Bitterblossom or go with a Thopter Foundry + Sword of the Meek gameplan to not only have more alternative ways to win, but keep you alive against goyfs while you dig out answers.
And I actually like Azban more than Esper for this archetype.
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
Esper is better at making Brain in a Jar relevant, and green doesn't have too many spells worth investing in. Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse at most, but Esper has better alternatives.
I agree I might be over thinking this, but Ive been in scenarios where resolving Beck // Call just isn't enough to win. Hour of Reckoning just seems too convenient in some matchups to ignore.
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Man, I'm glad someone else is playing a deck like this and seeing Jar as a card that actually does things besides the combo! So many people I talk to about versions of the deck are skimping on Jars in favor of Expertise cards and saying that they don't want to ever draw 2 Jars. If you're on a draw-go style gameplan, having 2 Jars is play is actually amazing. You can 1) Alternate the scries on endstep to hold up counters and still be able to fuse a topdecked Beck 2) Scry one up and down while keeping the other on a specific number as an answer--for example keeping one Jar on 3 to hold up instant speed Verdict to effectively close out the game against a deck like Affinity. Also, if you have an Esper Charm in your hand and just tick a Jar up to 2 (with no Beck...say a 2-mana draw spell or nothing), then drawing a second one on your fifth turn and making your opponent discard 4 can be totally nuts by matchup.
I played the original list that Saffronolive ran on stream, but I've made some changes around AER as well. I liked the core of the deck (here it is for reference), but the the combination of metagame changes and extra early interaction (push) has driven me to swap the Deprives out for Cryptics. That was what I did originally, but I ended up actually preferring Deprive for a long time, and the mana cheating from Jar does actually help balance out Deprive's drawback. It's still viable, but I'm on the Cryptic kick for the moment.
Here's a list I 5-0'd a comp league with a few days ago.
You'll notice that I'm not running any Yahenni's Expertise. I honestly just think Verdict is way too good as an instant (although it's amazing in general) to pass up as my go-to sweeper, and as you mentioned above, Sram's is...actually a really good card for what we want to do. I don't think I want more than 2 copies of an Expertise in the deck right now because in general I'd rather just hold up interaction and endstep Esper Charm T4 than mainphase it to add 3 1/1's. In some situations that's fine, but in general I like having more Jars than Expertise effects. One sweet thing about the Expertises, though, is that they smooth out your Jar curve really well. If you have, say, a Sram's in hand with no Beck, you can tick up Jar past 1 and still fuse Beck//Call at instant speed off your 4-spot. It lets you Beck 3 times between 2 and 6. You can endstep Esper Charm your opponent off Jar for one mana, then untap and Sram's to Esper Charm again for one mana while holding up other interaction...it's crazy. Sram's also gives you a pretty obscene aggro plan against BGx that doesn't rely on Jar (especially vs Jund which has both decays and K Commands), and that's a matchup where YE doesn't really do anything beyond kill Souls tokens (that we're pretty good at handling).
Anyway, I've been thinking about doing some commentary over a comp league on MODO if anyone would be interested in watching it. I was actually going to make a thread for the archetype to go with it, but I'm glad someone beat me to it I do have gameplay videos floating around somewhere that I grabbed before the update cut us off old replays as well that I might be able to find/post. I've had a couple people contact me about the deck, so I'll let them know there's a thread up now to help get the discussion going! The core idea of cheating out Beck in an Esper deck is legitimately competitive, and I wanna hear more about what people are doing with it.
Glad to see someone as excited as I am about the playability of the combo.
A few things to mention:
One, I can see your list is a very Esper controlish list, with lots of late game. My list is optimized to achieve the combo as fast as possible, and it can consistently fire it off turn four. It's really riding on the combo. Ive thrown in Inquisitions to Protect, and serum visions to dig for the combo. Now that I think about it, Esper Charm seems really good as an endstep turn three play to dig for pieces.
If you like jar with your list, try out Far // Away. It'll make you fall in love with BiaJ. Including it in my list means that I can consistently get huge value plays off of jars and Expertises. Not to mention far // Away is actually a good card against a lot of decks (Infect, Bant Eldrazi, etc). Haven't played enough to know for sure, but just intuitively, BiaJ seems like a power card in Control-v-Control matchups.
Never tried Logic Knot or Think Twice, how do they perform? Can't afford Snaps and Cryptics.
Another thing to mention is that my list is built to fight against Bant Eldrazi, which is my main playtester.
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Our lists are clearly trying to do different things, which is cool. Basically, I'm trying to make the deck run as smoothly as possible when it doesn't combo, but you're getting the insane value plays earlier and more consistently than I am even if we both have the option to run as either the control or the beatdown in the early turns. It's possible that the most effective choice is a meta call as well. I'll try your list and see how it plays. When I've run discard and Remands lately I've been playing with a couple copies of Sorin, Solemn Visitor, which is definitely a card worth considering if you're running a lot of token generation.
Also, Esper Charm is an excellent card overall. You kind of want to tune your deck to run mostly at instant speed to maximize it, but the mind rot mode is actually nuts in a lot of situations. Pretty good in the Bant Eldrazi matchup if you're seeing a lot of that since it encourages them to play into your Verdicts. The random Blood Moon (even stony silence) hate is also something that I love about it. Even if you aren't holding up Esper Charm when Blood Moon gets cast, Jar more or less ensures that you'll be able to deal with it at some point (if you even need to...sometimes Jar lets us play through Blood Moon better than some of the decks that are trying to use it against us, lol).
I'm gonna do some more testing with the Control list in a few days and maybe post another version, but one thing I've noticed is that Cryptic might not be worth 3 slots if we're increasing our 4-drop count with Expertise cards. I think some number of Cryptic is still useful for the draw-go version (especially vs planeswalkers), but cutting one for a cheaper hard counter like Negate might be the look. I've also generally liked Spell Pierce a lot with Jar. Sure, drawing it late-game can be bad (though not always really), but a number of situations come up where you want to both play Jar and counter a non-creature T3 play (Lili, Karn, Blood Moon and then on the draw Jace, Nahiri, Chandra, Koth). It also protects against K Command on the draw if you run into a lot of Grixis (which I personally do). Affinity seems to be on the rise on MODO right now, which maybe won't last, but Pierce also doubles as an extra Spell Snare on the draw vs a turn 2 Cranial Plating, which is nice. Something to consider.
"Rise" can be cast even without Brain and can bounce an opponent's creature (or your own S.Mage) and get back a dead Snapcaster Mage and "Fall" can be a kind of Hymn to Tourach with Brain at instant speed.
Part of what makes Brain and the Expertises so effective is they can fuse the cards. It becomes much less powerful if you can't. Both of the effects seem pretty mediocre in the shell. Not to say it doesn't warrant testing, I could be completely wrong. My gut tells me it doesn't do enough for the deck.
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
I think there's also theoretically a primarily Abzan deck in here as well. Maelstrom Pulse and Lingering Souls are both really good with Jar. My main concern is with not running much in the way of card selection, but the deckbuilding options are decent at least--IMO probably tied with Esper with the best (especially since we need at least two of WUG to be prominent so we can hardcast beck // call).
Having the ability to hardcast Call is pretty important in my opinion. It adds some inevitability to the deck. Lingering Souls can be played in esper as well, It's not exclusive to abzan. In fact, I have a playset in the sideboard. If we play abzan or bant, I can see playing cantrip creatures to take advantage of beck.
Here's an idea for a bant list:
3 Restoration Angel
3 Eternal Witness
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Wall of Omens
4 Sram's Expertise
2 Brain in a Jar
4 Beck // Call
Other:
4 Serum Visions
4 Path to Exile
2 Alive // Well
1 Supply // Demand
I can also see turning that list into an Intruder Alarm deck.
Here's an idea for an abzan list. In my opinion, the two big assets to playing abzan are being able to loop Eternal Witness with Sram's Expertise, and Down // Dirty
4 Bird of Paradise
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Eternal Witness
2 Restoration Angel
4 Sram's Expertise
2 Brain in a Jar
4 Beck // Call
Removal:
2 Fatal Push
3 Path to Exile
3 Down // Dirty
2 Alive // Well
Abzan seems to have the most variety of fuse cards.
The fuse cards worth considering.
Alive // Well seems very strong. Not only does it let us gain a ton of life if needed, it also gets us a 3/3 for the first jar activation.
Wear // Tear would be okay if we were in those colors. Generally you bring it in for one of its modes, not both, so its not great.
Supply // Demand is better than it looks. It triggers beck with it's Supply mode as much as you'd like. It also means you can cast demand off of jar's second activation because supply is 2 mana. Demand searches for Beck // Call, thats why you'd want it. If you're going all in in cantrip to victory then this is a card you'll want to run.
Down // Dirty seems like a great attrition engine. Imagine casing this off of Sram's Expertise or Yahenni's Expertise. You either get to stall the board or wipe the board, then you make your opponent discard two, and you can get back any card, or the expertise you just cast. Needs testing, but seems very powerful to me.
Pure // Simple Bogles hate.
Ready // Willing is great for dealing with boardwipes, or against creature heavy aggro decks where deathtouch and lifelink make it impossible for your opponents to get anything done. I especially like this as a combat trick with vial. You cast both sides, get to untap your creatures, and give them indestructible, lifelink and deathtouch. That's just nasty.
Profit // Loss just play zealous persecution.
Crime // Punishment is really interesting. You can cast Crime on vial's second activation , or off a expertise, which might be good in a Thoughtseize shell. What's interesting though is I'm pretty sure you can cast punishment for 0 off of jar or Expertise, wiping the board of 0 drops and tokens. Helps against lingering souls. Super secret affinity hate.
Hit // Run seems like a good finisher. You'd have to play either Birds of Paradise or jund colors to make it good though.
Trial // Error doesn't do enough in esper to warrant an inclusion.
Breaking // Entering will make us into an all in combo deck. Check out this article if you want to go down that road.
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Absolutely, yeah. I was running a couple copies before Sram's came out and even the T4 hardcast Beck flashback Souls play is legit enough to move a gameplan forward. What I meant was more that, in Esper, it's hard not to run some copies of Esper Charm (traditionally the main draw to the colors for control), so that leaves our 3-drop space kind of tight. In Abzan Souls is likely the best thing we can be playing in that spot, althought Maelstrom Pulse is pretty nuts as a 1-mana instant. On that note, I think there are kind of two directions the Esper deck can go. One is to play the Control game and use the fuse cheating to stabilize and shift the moment we turn the corner up a couple of turns in a way that's not available to normal control. The other is to play a primarily token-based gameplan like the one Tom Ross recently discussed. I haven't really done due diligence to the token deck since AER came out, but I'll try giving it another shot. On of the things I like about the control version is that you never really feel out of the game; that is, there's usually at least some topdeck that puts stabilization in motion, and you never feel as if you're just sitting down to lose a specific matchup. With normal BW tokens...that's not always true, but 1) being weak in some matchups is a necessary condition of Magic as a game 2) it's possible that the added explosiveness from the mana cheating plays really does do a lot for tokens. At the very least, it benefits from having a higher percentage of solid plays off of Sram's Expertise (T3 Souls, T4 Sram's into Intangible Virtue seems great to me, for example), and Sorin is kind of a monster in a lot of contexts. I'm nottt sure Ancestral isn't a trap in that particular version, but maybe...
Regarding your list of potential fuse cards: awesome reference! I think Alive // Well could be especially interesting in a token-heavy version, since the decks you and I brewed aren't actually so likely to have a ton of creatures early. In the control deck, maybe having access to white means we should sideboard more normal (more independently functional) Burn answers like Timely or Kor Firewalker, but we could definitely test it. I love your idea of grinding out value with Down // Dirty. It's worth noting that you can't actually target the Expertise with Down//Dirty, though, (I think? correct me otherwise) since the free spell actually goes on the stack in the middle of the Expertise card's resolution. Even so, it could be cool in maybe a BUG deck splashing white for Call...wipe the board with Yahenni's, make your opponent discard, then get back some kind of disruption/removal/value play for dealing with the next wave of threats.
On a side note, I wonder if there's some cute Jeskai running Greater Gargadon and Kari Zev's Expertise. Say a Blink Riders mana base (that is, Jeskai with Flagstones) and a green splash. Gargadon generally would play well with Catch // Release, Boom // Bust, Kari Zev's itself, and chump blockers from Call. I looked at it yesterday and the Expertise/Jar/Fuse package seemed a little fat to stick into that kind of attrition deck, so I tabled it for the moment. Still cute and I really just want to crack fetches and Bust at instant speed with the fetch activations on the stack
What are you all in on? Flesh//Blood certainly seems cute in a Breaking // Entering deck. I guess Lantern would let you draw Spirit Guide (though only in game 2) so you'd have a target as well, but you might be just as well off putting a single green-producing land in the sideboard and running Grudge. Unsure.
Can you post the token list for reference? Don't have SCG premium.
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
On the downm/dirty note, when you say it works with Sram's, do you mean you can actually target the expertise card with Dirty, or do you mean that the fuse works generally? Because Dirty targets as it goes on the stack, so the expertise isn't in the yard yet to target...I think? If you can do it I'd be really interested in why that works.
Edit to add the SCG decklist:
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Breeding Pool
1 Calciform Pools
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Darkslick Shores
4 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Watery Grave
3 Brain in a Jar
2 Intangible Virtue
4 Fatal Push
2 Mana Leak
2 Path to Exile
1 Remand
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Beck
4 Lingering Souls
4 Serum Visions
3 Sram's Expertise
2 Supreme Verdict
Planeswalkers:
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Disenchant
1 Dispel
1 Negate
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
4 Thoughtseize
2 Timely Reinforcements
Thanks for posting. I might be wrong on the Down // Dirty front. I was basing it off of Eternal Witness working with Expertises, but now that I think about it, it shouldn't work since E wit triggers when it enters. Dang, thought something good was going on there. Still though, a fuzed Down Dirty plus 3 1/1s or wiping the board is almost always enough to get you back in a hard game.
That list definitely looks strong. I'm just afraid of it going too far into the combo plan. Ancestral visions is a great card advantage engine, just not sure if it's redundant with Beck // Call in the deck. I think I'd probably rather Fuse Far // Away or some other card that takes the pressure off. I can see playing it in a deck with Yahenni's Expertise, but then the token plan seems counterintuitive.
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
On the tokens list…I agree that it’s a little strange lol. I definitely don’t quite grasp what Ancestral Vision is doing in there, but at the same time, the deck is trying to do something different and quite powerful. I’ve run a veryyy few games (4 lol) with the following list for fun:
1x Breeding Pool
1x Creeping Tar Pit
2x Darkslick Shores
4x Flooded Strand
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Godless Shrine
1x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
1x Mystic Gate
1x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Swamp
1x Watery Grave
4x Beck // Call
1x Collective Brutality
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
4x Serum Visions
3x Sram's Expertise
1x Thoughtseize
Instants:
1x Blessed Alliance
4x Fatal Push
2x Mana Leak
2x Path to Exile
1x Remand
2x Intangible Virtue
Artifacts:
3x Brain in a Jar
Planeswalkers:
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Sideboard currently random to the point of being humiliating, but, forgetting what I lost to (I think Burn) my first game, I beat Burn, Eldrazi Tron, and Slivers with it, and the token/Virtue/Sorin plan is pretty sweet in its own right. I’d feel a little bad about playing the deck myself because it doesn’t really have a lot of ways to dig itself out of holes (beyond drawing running enabler into Beck), but there are a lot of busted early game sequences, which is always nice. Fun deck at least, and just a rough draft.
More relevantly, I 5-0’d another competitive league today with the following list:
1x Breeding Pool
2x Celestial Colonnade
4x Flooded Strand
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Godless Shrine
2x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Mystic Gate
1x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
1x Blessed Alliance
3x Cryptic Command
3x Esper Charm
2x Fatal Push
3x Logic Knot
4x Path to Exile
1x Spell Pierce
2x Spell Snare
4x Think Twice
Sorcery (8)
4x Beck // Call
2x Sram's Expertise
2x Supreme Verdict
Artifact (3)
3x Brain in a Jar
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Celestial Purge
1x Commandeer
1x Dispel
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Kor Firewalker
1x Negate
2x Runed Halo
1x Supreme Verdict
3x Surgical Extraction
You’ll notice the only difference between this list and the last 5-0 (maindeck) is that I cut the second Snap for a Spell Pierce. That card’s actually been overperforming for me lately, so it’s definitely worth considering by meta. The other change was that I cut one sideboard Surgical for a second Runed Halo. I was having some issues with the Eldrazi Tron matchup, and decided to cut what might be excessive graveyard hate (at the moment) for a card that can swing that particular pairing while also being generally useful against a number of decks. Actually eventually drew both against Eldrazi Tron in the league and it won me game 2. I’m still liking the 3/2 split of Jar and Sram’s, but I do run 4 Jar (and usually 1 Sram’s MD with 1 side) sometimes still. I was also running one copy of Far // Away for a little while over the third Cryptic, but I think I'm cutting it for the moment. The meta doesn't quite seem to require it, but it's an amazing option generally and an autoinclude when edicts are strong.
As a side note...I'm not even sure if I should be running the one Snapcaster. I think it's so good with Sram's that we probably want one, but we should make sure we don't get blinded by how good the card is overall in case it's not quite optimal.
The matches I played were:
Abzan (2-0)
Eldrazi Tron (2-0)
Death’s Shadow Jund (2-0)
Burn (2-1)
Death’s Shadow Jund (2-1)
Still planning on making some videos on the deck, haha. Think I’ll actually be able to do it next week, so hopefully that’ll be interesting.
I can definitely see including Intangible Virtue in my list. It actually seems very powerful, because it does two things we want to accomplish with our tokens.
One, we want to end the game quickly. doubling the token size makes a massive difference, and it shortens the clock considerably.
Two, it makes us less vulnerable to ground threats. One of my problems in testing is I can't attack because the backswing from my opponent will just kill me. Intangible Virtue completely solves that problem while also being a more reliable card than Hour of Reckoning.
Sorin is extremely hard to deal with in my experience. I've played games where a resolved Sorin and a Shambling Vent bring my opponent back from the Dead. I'll try him out.
Spell Pierce does seem really good at the moment.
Far // Away seems good when Infect or Bant Eldrazi reach the top.
Want to note that GoST is a really good sideboard option against control opponents. It can really catch them off guard. It also helps in a lot of our bad matchups like Tron, Storm, and other unfair decks.
Hey, another idea for a list is Sultai.
Sultai could be a good list for Ancestral Visions and down dirty for an attrition engine.
And if we're getting super crazy, we could build a four color list for bring to light.
I can see a Witch (UBWG) list being fun. Trying to take advantage of Bring to light, down dirty, ancestral visions, and Beck Call all in one list.
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Just as a quick thing, I uploaded a replay of the deck grinding through a resolved Karn because of Beck. The opponent didn't quite play around Jar the way they needed to, but this isn't the first game I've had where Karn just stayed on the board and didn't beat us. Kind of a nice feeling lol. My win rate vs Tron is surprisingly high, even for Esper which generally does better against it than, say, Jeskai in the matchup. The Deprive deck is probably a little better here, but Cryptic's fine, and it's another matchup where Spell Pierce can be good.
Also played against NumotTheNummy on stream if you want to check it out a match vs our deck from the U/R Gifts Storm perspective. (It's at 1:38:30 if the timestamping doesn't work.)
4 Bring to Light
3 Sram's Expertise
2 Brain in a Jar
4 Beck // Call
3 Down // Dirty
4 Pentad Prism
Draw/Filter:
4 Serum Visions
2 Esper Charm
Removal:
2 Fatal Push
3 Path to Exils
2 Supreme Verdict
3 Remand
2 Spell Snare
Have no idea what to do about the manabase. The green splash is so minimal it's basically a three color deck though.
I think I'll go for something like this:
4 Polluted Delta
2 Windswept Heath
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
2 Glacial Fortress
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Shambling Vent
1 Plains
1 Island
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
I threw some videos together (with commentary) replaying the last comp league I did. Might be interesting if anyone gets a chance to check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-C_P_M6DdZ15OR11gTzm3Z2o8Pax1FRF
EDIT: Didn't get a chance to record a deck tech. Going to add it tomorrow, but it's also the same list I posted above.
2 Yahenni's Expertise
4 Brain in a Jar
4 Beck // Call
4 Catch // Release
4 Smallpox
4 Lingering Souls
4 Night's Whisper
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Fatal Push
4 Marsh Flats
3 Shambling Vent
4 Godless Shrine
1 Concealed Courtyard
2 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
5 Swamp
I really like your list and how you've taken a different spin on the idea. What you do about Release making you sac your Jar. Do you often have servo tokens to sacrifice? Aside from that it seems really sweet.
I'm thinking of adding one Research // Development to the main in the witch list so I can take advantage of Bring to Light as a tutor. I'll fill the sideboard with silver bullets for killing certain decks.
Here's what I'm thinking for my silver bullets:
Alive // Well for aggro decks. It's also a great card regardless with Jar. Also pretty sure it gains you 8 life with Sram's Expertise. Only reason it's not in the main is because its it broken like Beck // Call.
Memoricide for any combo deck. Also for any card that is too good against us.
Eidolon of Rhetoric is pretty self explanatory.
Yahenni's Expertise for to replace Sram's in certain matchups.
Timely Reinforcements for aggressive matchups.
Creeping Corrosion for Affinity or Lantern control.
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
More likly you can cast a 2 mana spell on the way to cast breaking // entering. Casting drawing 2 cards, beck // call or smallpox the turn before casting breaking // entering will often leave you on topp of resources compare to your opponent. Following with lingering souls is not as effecient, but it is not bad either.
With 12 cards that make between 3 and 4 tokens you will often float the board either going on the offense, or if you are in trouble, you can go on defense.
As you pointed out Sram's Expertese can function as sacrefising for artifacts.
The nice thing is once you start pulling ahead you get so many tokens and card drawing, while your opponent keeps loosing essential things like lands, creatures and cards in hand. I really recoment trying it out.