Phoenix flies over Eldrazi or other fatties like DS; I won a few games with it due to either evasion or resilience.
On the topic of the B/R version and Bloodghasts: I got 13th place at an SCG Regionals last month with the B/R Hollow Call version, and beat a Vengevine deck to get there, so I feel it has serious legs. The constant recursion tied to more reliable forms of pressure like Hollow One or Angler puts a very fast clock on your opponent that they feel a need to interact with (even Flameblade Adept can put serious pressure on very quickly!), but also provides a ton of recurring threats due to the Ghasts, Phoenixes, and Call to the Netherworld.
It's a good deck, with bad matchups against tribal go-wide stuff. Worth working on, IMO.
Chart a Course was high on my radar. Basically Tormenting Voice in preferable order and with a means to cast it without discard if you think you need card draw more than graveyard population.
I feel like Thought Scour might have some potential here too.
i would not run chart a course in this deck (because of 2 mana for a to small effect that doesn't work well with the rest of the deck)
if you want card draw i would recommend Mulldrifter instead.
The main purpose of Chart a Course is the discard (to be able to toss a Vengevine to grave), which Mulldrifter doesn't offer. Simply drawing-2 without discarding is the backup plan - another mode we can use if the usual way is situationally inopportune. In this deck picking a card to throw to grave is usually preferable (which is why Cathartic Reunion / Faithless Looting are often used). Being able to do the discard after the draw is what makes it better than Tormenting Voice (along with the no-discard option in the rare cases that's preferable). You can't even cast Tormenting Voice if you topdeck it on an empty hand (or Cathartic Reunion on a zero-or-one-hand). You can cast Chart a Course that way.
I've been dabbling in a monored manabase version - though I play the Vengevines and Street Wraiths, I have absolutely no means to hardcast Street Wraith, and the only way Vengevine can even theoretically be cast is off two BTEs (and if I'm doing that, things have gone horribly awry).
Some neat things in there... Neonate and Brawler as additional discard outlets to get Venge or Phoenix to grave and/or get a discount on Hollow One... Brawler, along with Hollow and Venge, big enough to meet Flamewake's condition...
I am about to replace the two lightning axes with two grim lavamancers.. maybe they get stuff better done against druid counter company... And maybe I will cut a cathartic reunion. I am also aware that i Haven't found the perfect configuration. Storm and Counter Company are hard matchups. I lack interaction so I only can win if I get the perfect start and beat them turn 2/3 (and even then both decks can beat us if they are on the play).
A whole lot of overlap with my and Froop's decks posted above Dec 11 and 12. All the same fundamentals - Neonate Faithless BTE Bushwhacker Flamewake Hollow1 VVine and Wraith - the only major difference was that his deck ran Flameblade Adepts which neither of us did (some earlier decks in this thread had Goblin Guide or Legion Loyalist as extra 1-drops). He ran Bolts like my deck ran but Froop's didn't, and Mandrills and Reunions like Froop's did and mine didn't. Froop ran a bit more grave-filling via Gather/Grapple, while mine went with a little extra discard-on-legs in Bloodrage Brawler. Still, all told, a quite fundamentally similar deck. HollowVine is still/back on the map (though BR Hollow One with Bloodghasts instead of Vengevines are still more popular and successful).
I tried Flameblade Adept last FNM. It performed really bad in my list. If you play the adept, you need more real discard like the B/R Hollow ONe lists have. If you play gather the pack and stuff neonate or grim lavamancer or mandrills feel much better.
Do we add bloodbraid elfe to the deck now he is unbanned?
I don't think so. We do our big hits before we even have access to 4 mana. And so much of our deck it whiffs on anyway. Hollow One costs 5, Vengevine 4, Mandrills 6. If we hit a Bushwhacker we're not casting it with Surge. Getting a BTE or Neonate at that point is hardly beneficial.
The deck feels super close, I want to try and pair vengevine with hollow one in a similar shell. Not sure what to cut though, maybe some ghor clans and commune? I find commune is the worst card in the deck, it's my first cut almost every boarded game.
Not sure what to cut though, maybe some ghor clans and commune? I find commune is the worst card in the deck, it's my first cut almost every boarded game.
I agree. I also don't like the memnites^^ The problem of the Deck is to find Vengevines. Once they are in grave there is no problem to "activate" them. Memnite just seems super weak.
Recently went 4-0 at a pretty competitive modern FNM beating storm, burn, jeskai control and naya zoo. Sideboard is a little all-over the place but I'm satisfied with the mainboard for now.
Glad to see this still getting some love. It really disappoints me that Myr Superion is so hosed by Fatal Push ... just when I was starting to find homes for Superion is when modern got Push, removal that was strictly at its best against drawback laden low cost creatures like Superion.
When m19 spoilers came out I immediately took note of Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma and its ability to make Myr Superion free (and bigger and tramplier). But just getting to the point where we could cast Goreclaw is a bother.
I've still found superion to be pretty good as there are still a number of matchups where the opponent has difficulty answering them. I've also faced a lot less fatal push decks these days. They're also key in winning a lot of the bad matchups like elves or counters company which can chump block for days because it punches hard along with ghor clan rampager and/or legion loyalist.
I think this deck isn't too bad right now as it does alright against jeskai and mono g tron. The humans matchup is rough but is still doable with the right draws. I'm still not too sure how this deck does against B/R hollow one since burning inquiry is such a high variance card but it doesn't seem unwinnable either.
Most removal doesn't fit in the concept of the deck and feels strange in most situations but against certain decks (counters company e.g.) you just need removal... Bolts are Ok, bolts are never bad in modern but they dont synergise with the deck. Lightning axe is also ok but not that great. Any other ideas?
The 4 bolts is usually enough for most matchups and you dont need your removal to synergize with your deck. I board in roasts for matchups where i have difficulty punching through fat blockers and for storm/counters company. Personally I haven't found lightning axe to be that great as I'm usually tight on cards in matchups where extra removal comes in. I also find ghor-clan rampager to be decent pseuodo-removal.
That being said, counters company is simply just a terrible matchup as they can flood the board with chump blockers and have the potential to combo out really fast. Post-board I board in cards to increase my clock and rely on trample to punch through.
It's obvious that some ramp must be used (Birds of paradise doubles duty as a creature), but cascading into Myr superion and getting back Vvine sounds pretty appealing to me. This means 12 power on turn 3 (if this is working).
Also Llanowar Mentor could be used for ramp and triggering Vengevine.
Yes to bloodbraid, (been using 2 mb for a while)
Not really to the ramp, as with the looting it tends to not be to hard to hit the land drops (did an analysis of my games and land drops about 6mounths ago I could probably dig it up if your interested, but basically I made 4 lands turn (or at least 4 mana turn 4) about 80-85% of the time (carnt remember exact number)).
And definitely not to mentor as vengevine is a cast trigger not etb trigger, hence why it gets the Bushwhacker trigger.
The idea is not cascading into Reckless Bushwhacker (because it doesn't trigger Surge), but add 4 Scourge Devil for flooding the board and pumping all creatures.
Bloodbraid isn't very good in this build (referring to OP). There were a few lists that popped up here and there from the early days of modern that played bloodbraid and vengevine in a naya midrange shell. Unfortunately I don't think it's really worth it as it's too slow for minimal payoff. There are better ways of flooding the board with creatures than BBE
I think that Greenbelt Rampager is not that suited for this deck.
It is basically a 3/4 for GGG and is useful only if you have Vengevine already on your graveyard.
===> in my opinion, it is not that useful here.
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On the topic of the B/R version and Bloodghasts: I got 13th place at an SCG Regionals last month with the B/R Hollow Call version, and beat a Vengevine deck to get there, so I feel it has serious legs. The constant recursion tied to more reliable forms of pressure like Hollow One or Angler puts a very fast clock on your opponent that they feel a need to interact with (even Flameblade Adept can put serious pressure on very quickly!), but also provides a ton of recurring threats due to the Ghasts, Phoenixes, and Call to the Netherworld.
It's a good deck, with bad matchups against tribal go-wide stuff. Worth working on, IMO.
I feel like Thought Scour might have some potential here too.
The main purpose of Chart a Course is the discard (to be able to toss a Vengevine to grave), which Mulldrifter doesn't offer. Simply drawing-2 without discarding is the backup plan - another mode we can use if the usual way is situationally inopportune. In this deck picking a card to throw to grave is usually preferable (which is why Cathartic Reunion / Faithless Looting are often used). Being able to do the discard after the draw is what makes it better than Tormenting Voice (along with the no-discard option in the rare cases that's preferable). You can't even cast Tormenting Voice if you topdeck it on an empty hand (or Cathartic Reunion on a zero-or-one-hand). You can cast Chart a Course that way.
T1 Looting discard Vengevine
T2 Gather the Pack, find your stuff
T3 BTE + Hooting Mandril + 1 or 2 Vengvine + Bushwacker = 15 or 20 dmg
But because this is inconsistent, I combined the Zoo and the Hollow one Variant.
Would you mind posting your list? I'd be interested in seeing it.
4x Bloodrage Brawler
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Flamewake Phoenix
4x Reckless Bushwhacker
4x Hollow One
4x Vengevine
4x Street Wraith
4x Faithless Looting
20x Mountain
Some neat things in there... Neonate and Brawler as additional discard outlets to get Venge or Phoenix to grave and/or get a discount on Hollow One... Brawler, along with Hollow and Venge, big enough to meet Flamewake's condition...
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
3 Insolent Neonate
3 Hooting Mandrils
4 Hollow One
3 Reckless Bushwacker
3 Flamewake Phoenix
3 Street Wraith
3 Cathartic Reunion
2 Grapple with the past
4 Gather the Pack
2 Lightning Axe
I am about to replace the two lightning axes with two grim lavamancers.. maybe they get stuff better done against druid counter company... And maybe I will cut a cathartic reunion. I am also aware that i Haven't found the perfect configuration. Storm and Counter Company are hard matchups. I lack interaction so I only can win if I get the perfect start and beat them turn 2/3 (and even then both decks can beat us if they are on the play).
Kirk Maijala's deck was featured here:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gptor18/gptor18-top-moments-2018-02-11
A whole lot of overlap with my and Froop's decks posted above Dec 11 and 12. All the same fundamentals - Neonate Faithless BTE Bushwhacker Flamewake Hollow1 VVine and Wraith - the only major difference was that his deck ran Flameblade Adepts which neither of us did (some earlier decks in this thread had Goblin Guide or Legion Loyalist as extra 1-drops). He ran Bolts like my deck ran but Froop's didn't, and Mandrills and Reunions like Froop's did and mine didn't. Froop ran a bit more grave-filling via Gather/Grapple, while mine went with a little extra discard-on-legs in Bloodrage Brawler. Still, all told, a quite fundamentally similar deck. HollowVine is still/back on the map (though BR Hollow One with Bloodghasts instead of Vengevines are still more popular and successful).
Do we add bloodbraid elfe to the deck now he is unbanned?
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1010387#paper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAp0rlLlrJo&list=PLeaJ5p0_L0CdHZDLjxFf6IWsHyWuNvFJM
The deck feels super close, I want to try and pair vengevine with hollow one in a similar shell. Not sure what to cut though, maybe some ghor clans and commune? I find commune is the worst card in the deck, it's my first cut almost every boarded game.
I agree. I also don't like the memnites^^ The problem of the Deck is to find Vengevines. Once they are in grave there is no problem to "activate" them. Memnite just seems super weak.
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/07-08-17-Djy-rg-vengevine/?cb=1530689333
Recently went 4-0 at a pretty competitive modern FNM beating storm, burn, jeskai control and naya zoo. Sideboard is a little all-over the place but I'm satisfied with the mainboard for now.
When m19 spoilers came out I immediately took note of Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma and its ability to make Myr Superion free (and bigger and tramplier). But just getting to the point where we could cast Goreclaw is a bother.
I think this deck isn't too bad right now as it does alright against jeskai and mono g tron. The humans matchup is rough but is still doable with the right draws. I'm still not too sure how this deck does against B/R hollow one since burning inquiry is such a high variance card but it doesn't seem unwinnable either.
Our deck plays almost no removal.
Most removal doesn't fit in the concept of the deck and feels strange in most situations but against certain decks (counters company e.g.) you just need removal... Bolts are Ok, bolts are never bad in modern but they dont synergise with the deck. Lightning axe is also ok but not that great. Any other ideas?
That being said, counters company is simply just a terrible matchup as they can flood the board with chump blockers and have the potential to combo out really fast. Post-board I board in cards to increase my clock and rely on trample to punch through.
It's obvious that some ramp must be used (Birds of paradise doubles duty as a creature), but cascading into Myr superion and getting back Vvine sounds pretty appealing to me. This means 12 power on turn 3 (if this is working).
Also Llanowar Mentor could be used for ramp and triggering Vengevine.
Green @ it's best
The idea is not cascading into Reckless Bushwhacker (because it doesn't trigger Surge), but add 4 Scourge Devil for flooding the board and pumping all creatures.
Green @ it's best
It is basically a 3/4 for GGG and is useful only if you have Vengevine already on your graveyard.
===> in my opinion, it is not that useful here.