what do you think about manamorphose? Manamorphose fills the grave for mandrills and gather of the pack, and it can be used to have red mana after a hidden herbalist
This is a direction a similar-ish deck I was working on was going (mine is more-Revolt-instead-of-Grave)... after I posted my thread about that people there directed me here and I've been following here since. Manamorphose was used there to, among other things, be able to set up a Talara's Battalion.
I tried Manamorphose, but ultimately cut it as it doesn't do enough. Reasoning wrt each card that it enables:
Mandrills: a single Commune/Gather already puts 5 cards in the yard for Mandrills (1 to hand, 4 to yard, then it bins itself). If you milled a Vengevine that you don't want to exile, you can easily make up the difference with a fetchland.
Gather the Pack: I usually get an extra instant/sorcery in the graveyard by discarding it to Looting. If you have 1 Looting or 2 Commune/Gather in hand before the discard it's often correct to discard those. Generally, you don't want to -1 yourself again by casting the second Looting, and playing Commune/Gather twice in a row leaves your board undeveloped.
Herbalists: I usually just play Herbalists at the earliest opportunity. T2 Herbalists, Commune, T3 1-drop, Bushwhacker is just as fast as T2 Commune, T3 Herbalists, Manamorphose, 1-drop, Bushwhacker, and the first sequence doesn't even require Manamorphose. Playing the 3rd Mandrills increases the odds of T3 Herbalists, Mandrills, Bushwhacker.
In short: Manamorphose is a "wild card" that enables some plays that you wouldn't be able to make otherwise, but you can play differently to work around those situations and use the Manamorphose slot for something else instead.
I'm still thinking of cards which could make the cut over the 3rd Mandrills. Legion Loyalist caught my eye since it's a cheap creature that strengthens your offense against chump blockers and Lingering Souls. I like it better than Greenseeker - the problem with Greenseeker is that it's green and you want to play it on turn 1, but sometimes you have hands like Mountain, fetch, Herbalists, Superion, some other cards, and cracking the fetch for Stomping Ground, T1 Greenseeker cuts you off T2 Herbalists. The mana is good now because all the turn 1 plays are red, and I feel Greenseeker undermines that.
The last game was a punt, the commentators had the correct line. You had 6 power and he was on 4. In this situation you have the advantage; you can force your opponent to make the first move by attacking, because if he doesn't do anything (or only has removal for 1 guy), he just dies.
There are a few things I saw in your deck that I don't agree with, namely too many basic Forests, and the SSGs. I could go into more detail if you provided a deck list.
Thanks for posting your decklist. Here are my thoughts:
- You don't need to SB Choke against control. Blood Moon wrecks them just as bad (arguably harder, since it gets manlands too). Generally, aggro decks will beat control, so save your SB slots for the weaker matchups, i.e. combo.
- Your mana base should have more Mountains than Forests, because you have more turn 1 plays that need red instead of green. Consider the following Storm decklist: its turn 1 play is a cantrip, so it has 3 Islands and 1 Mountain, and all its fetches can find basic Islands. The decklist in the first post of this thread has an identical mana base, just with the colors switched, and an extra fetch instead of a painland for Hidden Herbalists.
- You're playing too many fetches. I understand Herbalists needs them for revolt, but with 12 fetches, you're going to take a lot of self-inflicted damage, and run out of lands to fetch in long games. Sometimes you'll even run out of lands in short games when you hit a streak of bad luck and Commune/Gather mills away your fetchable lands. Use Copperline Gorge.
- Don't play Simian Spirit Guide. It's something of a cliche to take a fast deck and jam SSGs to make it faster, but historically, this just doesn't work. It didn't work for Amulet, and it didn't work for Dredge. You're already losing CA when you Loot and don't discard any Vengevines; SSG is just going to make that problem worse. Once you lose the SSGs, the Chalices can go too.
- 7 artifact destruction spells is excessive. Play other kinds of hate, like grave hate, or land hate. This deck is reliant on synergy, so you can't board in 7 cards for one matchup anyway, as that would dilute the deck too much.
In short: work on the mana base and sideboard. Learn from game losses and don't make the same mistakes again. Don't give up!
This deck is pretty exciting! Definitely switching to this from traditional dredgevine. Looking forward to playtesting when the few cards I was missing come in
Any suggestions for replacements for Blood Moon in the SB?
This deck is pretty exciting! Definitely switching to this from traditional dredgevine. Looking forward to playtesting when the few cards I was missing come in
Any suggestions for replacements for Blood Moon in the SB?
I play Fulminator Mage in the SB, instead of Blood Moon. BM is stronger in it's job, but I feel that Blood Moon hurts us a bit too much, with disabling fetches.
I'm curious if anyone has tried cutting a couple commune with the gods, gather the pact, or faithless looting for more traditional zoo staples and if so which ones and why? I find I'm wiffing on the communes and gathers an awful lot.
I've been working on a similar deck on my own (I'm a huge Vengevine fan since the days of Legacy Survival Vengevine), but I don't feel like writing a short novel of all the different builds that my deck has gone through during the last month. However, now that the last, but surely not final build looks very similar to the deck that has been discussed in this thread, I feel like posting my current list as well as sharing some of my findings and reasonings that have led me to a slightly different direction.
I used to have Myr Superion in the deck as well as Hidden Herbalist. I've tried the fastest builds I could think of with few Memnites in there. I also had Smuggler's Copter in the deck as it is a great card to drop off BTE (Burning-Tree Emissary) or HH (Hidden Herbalist), it has evasion which is something the deck lacks otherwise and it has great synergy with Greenbelt Rampager. No matter the build, the problems I faced were inconsistency as well as the fact that often it just isn't enough that you hit for ~10 damage on turn 2 without a way to punch through the remaining life and playset of bolts as the only reach in the deck. As much as I wanted to make Myr Superion work, it was the first card I cut from the deck as it made sequencing hard and suboptimal too often. Speaking of sequencing and inconsistency, another thing that annoyed me was that HH doesn't go well with Reckless Bushwhacker without BTE (or Manamorphose in the deck). So what did I do?
I had been thinking of Flamewake Phoenix already for the earlier builds, but dismissed it when the only ferocious enablers were Vengevines. Now that I've added 3 Hooting Mandrills as well as 2 Scavenging Oozes to the deck, it is actually pretty easy and consistent to get ferocious enabled. I also really like that the addition of Flamewake Phoenixes makes Faithless Lootings so much better as there are now 8 cards in the deck that you actively want to get to graveyard. I've been enjoying the Phoenixes so far and I've won many of the grindier games eventually by beating 2-4 damage in the air while keeping the ground clogged with ground beaters and especially Scavenging Oozes. The Phoenix is also reasonable, while surely not optimal play on turn 3 as a follow-up to turn 2 BTE into Bushwhacker. Turn 3 BTE into Phoenix also animates Vengevine in a fine way to have at least 6 hasty damage waiting to attack the opponent.
To sum up the differences between my build and the one in the OP are as follows:
-3 Myr Superion
-4 Hidden Herbalist
-4 Commune with the Gods
+4 Flamewake Phoenix
+2 Greenbelt Rampager
+2 Scavenging Ooze
+1 Legion Loyalist
+1 Pendelhaven
+1 Land
I already talked about Myr Superions as well as Hidden Herbalists. I have decided to exclude Commune with the Gods from my build as I want to make sure that I have enough creatures in the deck (and I believe a playset to be enough of the effect Gather the Pack brings to the table). I play two more lands as my build is really geared towards big turn 3 and often two lands is not enough to get the ball rolling. Pendelhaven is great with Insolent Neonates as well as Legion Loyalist. I play all green fetches and two forest to be able to hardcast everything even if opponent lands Blood Moon. Heavy green also goes well with Scavenging Ooze. Greenbelt Rampager is a card that I used to have 3 in the deck, but two seems to be enough. As the single best Vengevine enabler, I wouldn't leave it completely out of the deck. Even though it seems janky, there are many great lines of play that it enables such as t2 animate Vengevine into t3 Rampager into surged Bushwhacker. The third Rampager became one Legion Loaylist, but this is the flex slot if I can think of something better. This slot is definitely a creature, but maybe there is some effect I need in the maindeck even more.
To make one more thing clear, I haven't tried the build in the OP. The changes I talk about in my post are changes that I've made to my earlier builds, but my main arguments in regards Myr Superion and Hidden Herbalist still remain true. I'm not proposing changes to the OP deck, but a different take on a Vengevine deck that I encourage you to test. I'm eager to hear your thoughts, findings and results whether you test things out or if it's just speculation and brainstorming.
Have you considered lead the stampede ?
I've recently built this deck and love it ! At the moment having mostly trouble with getting vengevined in the graveyard ,just bad luck and small testing results ,thanks for this forum
Thanks. I look forward to hearing your testing results and feedback. Latest changes I've made to the deck are as follows: -1 Legion Loyalist +1 Rhonas the Indomitable (MD) and 2 Magma Spray (SB) in place of 1 Kari Zev's Expertise and 1 Destructive Revelry.
Hey guys, I've been running this twice a week with a number of different variations over the last month or so at 2 of my LGS. I've run a number of different variants, ranging from pretty close to the original, different sideboards, running fauna shaman, flamewake phoenix, and most recently renegade rallier. I've since started to mainboard lightning axe as fattie tron, shadow, and grixis are super popular
My record as of now: 3-1: loss to tron 4-1! easy matchups and crazy lucky all day, got a runback against affinity for tiebreaker 2-2: loss to grixis shadow, loss to grixis delve 2-2: loss to aggro tron, loss to grixis control
fauna shaman experiment (I only had 2 at the time and only drew 1 all day :/) 1-3 : loss to burn, loss to coco bant
current list (lightning axe) 3-1 : loss to dredge (against my friend who I consistently normally beat, very bad draws :/) 3-1 : loss to coco bant
The deck is a ton of fun and its really satisfying when people walk up and watch because "that guys playing some weird superion deck". That said it's definitely got a ton of weaknesses, running out of gas, discard, coco bant g1 seems impossible: mainboard qasali pridemage and scavenging ooze are a nightmare to deal with. My tests with fauna shaman were interesting enough, if she doesn't die its basically guaranteed turn 3+ big combos, but on turn 2 and no scary 1 drops, she basically always does. I switched to renegade rallier to have much more immediate and flexible turn 3 plays and so far have been liking the results.
I also originally disliked commune with the gods, but the importance of drawing blood moons in a lot of match-ups I've had makes it hard to not keep. Moon's been by far my most impact card for getting g2/3 wins, and for some reason it catches people by surprise quite often compared to my other blood moon experiences (one gift's player even mooned himself after thinking I was a naya deck).
There's definite room for improvement in the deck:
- neonate and (to a lesser degree) looting without vengevine in opening hand are really underwhelming turn 1s imo, and just the generally consistency of vengevine vs no vengevine is substantial - I've liked flamewake for another discard outlet and for the grindier matches as a small remedy.
- The deck gets completely -rocked- by discard: so much so that I kind've want to try leylines (and for burn, which my matches have always been suuper close against), but can't afford them at the moment.
- loses to itself: I mull with this deck probably more than any other deck I've run, and it does not mull well.
- running out of gas/dealing with fatties and tokens: unlike bushwhacker zoo, in games where we drop our herb/burning/whack combo, we are stuck with meh 2/2s on the board that really can't get through anything. I originally tried ghor-clan rampager for myr superion and combat tricks in my early builds - but I not once got a chance to use them, I think I might try rancor soon as it can get tutored by commune instead of just getting pitched, but we are already so tight on card slots. (I wish we had a from the grave option?)
If anyone has the chance to try the deck with leyline, rancor, or anything else I'd love to hear, or if anyone has any questions I can answer I'll do my best.
Really wish we had a second vengevine-like guy, I know that will never happen though ;_;
Hey I was wondering if it a good idea to make it jund and add cards like bloodghast,gravecrawler,dredgers and lotlet trolls. I was also wondering if I add in the black is there any other good black cards I can add to keep the synergy going.
Hey I was wondering if it a good idea to make it jund and add cards like bloodghast,gravecrawler,dredgers and lotlet trolls. I was also wondering if I add in the black is there any other good black cards I can add to keep the synergy going.
If you're going to make it Jund with Bloodghast, Lotleth Trolls and Dredgers, you are better off making a pure Dredgevine-deck. Or else you will dillute it so much that you have two playstyles mixed in one deck, whilst both these strategies are relying on a focused deck. We already mulligan bad as it is.
So i just finished up with a thursday night modern tournament at my lgs and I ended up 3-2. The list I played was similar to koteros but I am Still using 2 superion, 3 HH, and 2 commune witn the gods. Over all I was very impressed with the deck. I had flamewake phoenix's in the side it seems really solid and ill def try 2 in the main. I think superion is at least a two of it's just so good and can win creature matchups by itself. Greenbelt rampager is definitely legit there was a game where I got to turn one lootimg pitch double vengevine, turn two cast rampager twice and get back both vengevines.
Howdy y'all - I'm getting tired of running burn and not having a lot of success with 8-Rack but lately having a BLAST playing take on Kortero's version. So, thought I'd take this to the Charlotte open next weekend and know i'll at least have FUN all day. Any Sideboard advice from someone who has been playing this awhile in a competitive meta??
The deck has gone through multiple small changes since the last time I posted here, but the core remains the same. I will gladly answer here on this thread or by PM if you have questions about the deck, card choices, sideboarding plans or other topics.
Some recent tournament results:
3-1 at local 20 person Modern event, losing to Mono Blue Turns (did not have Gaddock Teegs in the deck at that time)
3-2 at Competitive Modern League (had 2 Faerie Macabres and 1 Domri Rade instead of Leyline of the Voids, other than that the most recent list)
4-1 at Competitive Modern League few days ago (2-0 UR storm, 2-0 Dredge, 2-1 Affinity, 1-2 GB elves, 2-0 Esper Delve, the list was the most recent one)
Modo nick: kortero
Rokla84 @ twitch (I rarely stream, but sometimes you can find me streaming Comp. Leagues)
Thanks for posting. Rhonas looks to be an interesting addition. I see you dropped the Hidden Herbalists. Good call! #most frustrating grizzly bear ever! :-P
Rhonas has been a nice addition, but I'd say the biggest recent breakthrough was Gaddock Teeg. The white splash is pretty much free manabase-wise and at the same time Gaddock Teeg blanks a long list of otherwise hard to beat cards such as Ad Nauseam, Gifts Ungiven, Past in Flames, Through the Breach, Scapeshift, Chord of Calling, Collected Company and Conflagrate to name a few. Naturally it does nothing to our own deck which is awesome.
It's pretty consistent and the decks that aren't able to wipe the board struggle a lot against our critters.
Also i cut Traverse the Ulvenwald, but 1 Greenseeker over a single Hooting Mandrills felt perfectly fine.
Green @ it's best
This is a direction a similar-ish deck I was working on was going (mine is more-Revolt-instead-of-Grave)... after I posted my thread about that people there directed me here and I've been following here since. Manamorphose was used there to, among other things, be able to set up a Talara's Battalion.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/771758-revolt-superion
Mandrills: a single Commune/Gather already puts 5 cards in the yard for Mandrills (1 to hand, 4 to yard, then it bins itself). If you milled a Vengevine that you don't want to exile, you can easily make up the difference with a fetchland.
Gather the Pack: I usually get an extra instant/sorcery in the graveyard by discarding it to Looting. If you have 1 Looting or 2 Commune/Gather in hand before the discard it's often correct to discard those. Generally, you don't want to -1 yourself again by casting the second Looting, and playing Commune/Gather twice in a row leaves your board undeveloped.
Herbalists: I usually just play Herbalists at the earliest opportunity. T2 Herbalists, Commune, T3 1-drop, Bushwhacker is just as fast as T2 Commune, T3 Herbalists, Manamorphose, 1-drop, Bushwhacker, and the first sequence doesn't even require Manamorphose. Playing the 3rd Mandrills increases the odds of T3 Herbalists, Mandrills, Bushwhacker.
In short: Manamorphose is a "wild card" that enables some plays that you wouldn't be able to make otherwise, but you can play differently to work around those situations and use the Manamorphose slot for something else instead.
I'm still thinking of cards which could make the cut over the 3rd Mandrills. Legion Loyalist caught my eye since it's a cheap creature that strengthens your offense against chump blockers and Lingering Souls. I like it better than Greenseeker - the problem with Greenseeker is that it's green and you want to play it on turn 1, but sometimes you have hands like Mountain, fetch, Herbalists, Superion, some other cards, and cracking the fetch for Stomping Ground, T1 Greenseeker cuts you off T2 Herbalists. The mana is good now because all the turn 1 plays are red, and I feel Greenseeker undermines that.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
There are a few things I saw in your deck that I don't agree with, namely too many basic Forests, and the SSGs. I could go into more detail if you provided a deck list.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
- You don't need to SB Choke against control. Blood Moon wrecks them just as bad (arguably harder, since it gets manlands too). Generally, aggro decks will beat control, so save your SB slots for the weaker matchups, i.e. combo.
- Your mana base should have more Mountains than Forests, because you have more turn 1 plays that need red instead of green. Consider the following Storm decklist: its turn 1 play is a cantrip, so it has 3 Islands and 1 Mountain, and all its fetches can find basic Islands. The decklist in the first post of this thread has an identical mana base, just with the colors switched, and an extra fetch instead of a painland for Hidden Herbalists.
- You're playing too many fetches. I understand Herbalists needs them for revolt, but with 12 fetches, you're going to take a lot of self-inflicted damage, and run out of lands to fetch in long games. Sometimes you'll even run out of lands in short games when you hit a streak of bad luck and Commune/Gather mills away your fetchable lands. Use Copperline Gorge.
- Don't play Simian Spirit Guide. It's something of a cliche to take a fast deck and jam SSGs to make it faster, but historically, this just doesn't work. It didn't work for Amulet, and it didn't work for Dredge. You're already losing CA when you Loot and don't discard any Vengevines; SSG is just going to make that problem worse. Once you lose the SSGs, the Chalices can go too.
- 7 artifact destruction spells is excessive. Play other kinds of hate, like grave hate, or land hate. This deck is reliant on synergy, so you can't board in 7 cards for one matchup anyway, as that would dilute the deck too much.
In short: work on the mana base and sideboard. Learn from game losses and don't make the same mistakes again. Don't give up!
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Any suggestions for replacements for Blood Moon in the SB?
I play Fulminator Mage in the SB, instead of Blood Moon. BM is stronger in it's job, but I feel that Blood Moon hurts us a bit too much, with disabling fetches.
He does look like a great addition for the Rakdos disruption lists like Blitzkrieg though
I've been working on a similar deck on my own (I'm a huge Vengevine fan since the days of Legacy Survival Vengevine), but I don't feel like writing a short novel of all the different builds that my deck has gone through during the last month. However, now that the last, but surely not final build looks very similar to the deck that has been discussed in this thread, I feel like posting my current list as well as sharing some of my findings and reasonings that have led me to a slightly different direction.
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Flamewake Phoenix
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Vengevine
3 Hooting Mandrills
2 Greenbelt Rampager
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Legion Loyalist
Sorcery [8]
4 Faithless Looting
4 Gather the Pack
4 Lightning Bolt
Land [20]
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Stomping Ground
2 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Pendelhaven
2 Domri Rade
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Kari Zev's Expertise
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Destructive Revelry
1 Gnaw to the Bone
3 Thorn of Amethyst
I used to have Myr Superion in the deck as well as Hidden Herbalist. I've tried the fastest builds I could think of with few Memnites in there. I also had Smuggler's Copter in the deck as it is a great card to drop off BTE (Burning-Tree Emissary) or HH (Hidden Herbalist), it has evasion which is something the deck lacks otherwise and it has great synergy with Greenbelt Rampager. No matter the build, the problems I faced were inconsistency as well as the fact that often it just isn't enough that you hit for ~10 damage on turn 2 without a way to punch through the remaining life and playset of bolts as the only reach in the deck. As much as I wanted to make Myr Superion work, it was the first card I cut from the deck as it made sequencing hard and suboptimal too often. Speaking of sequencing and inconsistency, another thing that annoyed me was that HH doesn't go well with Reckless Bushwhacker without BTE (or Manamorphose in the deck). So what did I do?
I had been thinking of Flamewake Phoenix already for the earlier builds, but dismissed it when the only ferocious enablers were Vengevines. Now that I've added 3 Hooting Mandrills as well as 2 Scavenging Oozes to the deck, it is actually pretty easy and consistent to get ferocious enabled. I also really like that the addition of Flamewake Phoenixes makes Faithless Lootings so much better as there are now 8 cards in the deck that you actively want to get to graveyard. I've been enjoying the Phoenixes so far and I've won many of the grindier games eventually by beating 2-4 damage in the air while keeping the ground clogged with ground beaters and especially Scavenging Oozes. The Phoenix is also reasonable, while surely not optimal play on turn 3 as a follow-up to turn 2 BTE into Bushwhacker. Turn 3 BTE into Phoenix also animates Vengevine in a fine way to have at least 6 hasty damage waiting to attack the opponent.
To sum up the differences between my build and the one in the OP are as follows:
-3 Myr Superion
-4 Hidden Herbalist
-4 Commune with the Gods
+4 Flamewake Phoenix
+2 Greenbelt Rampager
+2 Scavenging Ooze
+1 Legion Loyalist
+1 Pendelhaven
+1 Land
I already talked about Myr Superions as well as Hidden Herbalists. I have decided to exclude Commune with the Gods from my build as I want to make sure that I have enough creatures in the deck (and I believe a playset to be enough of the effect Gather the Pack brings to the table). I play two more lands as my build is really geared towards big turn 3 and often two lands is not enough to get the ball rolling. Pendelhaven is great with Insolent Neonates as well as Legion Loyalist. I play all green fetches and two forest to be able to hardcast everything even if opponent lands Blood Moon. Heavy green also goes well with Scavenging Ooze. Greenbelt Rampager is a card that I used to have 3 in the deck, but two seems to be enough. As the single best Vengevine enabler, I wouldn't leave it completely out of the deck. Even though it seems janky, there are many great lines of play that it enables such as t2 animate Vengevine into t3 Rampager into surged Bushwhacker. The third Rampager became one Legion Loaylist, but this is the flex slot if I can think of something better. This slot is definitely a creature, but maybe there is some effect I need in the maindeck even more.
To make one more thing clear, I haven't tried the build in the OP. The changes I talk about in my post are changes that I've made to my earlier builds, but my main arguments in regards Myr Superion and Hidden Herbalist still remain true. I'm not proposing changes to the OP deck, but a different take on a Vengevine deck that I encourage you to test. I'm eager to hear your thoughts, findings and results whether you test things out or if it's just speculation and brainstorming.
Regards,
Roope
I've recently built this deck and love it ! At the moment having mostly trouble with getting vengevined in the graveyard ,just bad luck and small testing results ,thanks for this forum
Thanks. I look forward to hearing your testing results and feedback. Latest changes I've made to the deck are as follows: -1 Legion Loyalist +1 Rhonas the Indomitable (MD) and 2 Magma Spray (SB) in place of 1 Kari Zev's Expertise and 1 Destructive Revelry.
My record as of now:
3-1: loss to tron
4-1! easy matchups and crazy lucky all day, got a runback against affinity for tiebreaker
2-2: loss to grixis shadow, loss to grixis delve
2-2: loss to aggro tron, loss to grixis control
fauna shaman experiment (I only had 2 at the time and only drew 1 all day :/)
1-3 : loss to burn, loss to coco bant
current list (lightning axe)
3-1 : loss to dredge (against my friend who I consistently normally beat, very bad draws :/)
3-1 : loss to coco bant
4 Arid Mesa
3 Copperline Gorge
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Windswept Heath
3 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
1 Flamewake Phoenix
4 Hidden Herbalists
3 Hooting Mandrills
3 Insolent Neonate
3 Myr Superion
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Vengevine
2 Renegade Rallier
4 Faithless Looting
3 Gather the Pack
3 Lightning Axe
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Anger of the Gods
3 Blood Moon
2 Dragon's Claw
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Ravenous Trap
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Seal of Primordium
The deck is a ton of fun and its really satisfying when people walk up and watch because "that guys playing some weird superion deck". That said it's definitely got a ton of weaknesses, running out of gas, discard, coco bant g1 seems impossible: mainboard qasali pridemage and scavenging ooze are a nightmare to deal with. My tests with fauna shaman were interesting enough, if she doesn't die its basically guaranteed turn 3+ big combos, but on turn 2 and no scary 1 drops, she basically always does. I switched to renegade rallier to have much more immediate and flexible turn 3 plays and so far have been liking the results.
I also originally disliked commune with the gods, but the importance of drawing blood moons in a lot of match-ups I've had makes it hard to not keep. Moon's been by far my most impact card for getting g2/3 wins, and for some reason it catches people by surprise quite often compared to my other blood moon experiences (one gift's player even mooned himself after thinking I was a naya deck).
There's definite room for improvement in the deck:
- neonate and (to a lesser degree) looting without vengevine in opening hand are really underwhelming turn 1s imo, and just the generally consistency of vengevine vs no vengevine is substantial - I've liked flamewake for another discard outlet and for the grindier matches as a small remedy.
- The deck gets completely -rocked- by discard: so much so that I kind've want to try leylines (and for burn, which my matches have always been suuper close against), but can't afford them at the moment.
- loses to itself: I mull with this deck probably more than any other deck I've run, and it does not mull well.
- running out of gas/dealing with fatties and tokens: unlike bushwhacker zoo, in games where we drop our herb/burning/whack combo, we are stuck with meh 2/2s on the board that really can't get through anything. I originally tried ghor-clan rampager for myr superion and combat tricks in my early builds - but I not once got a chance to use them, I think I might try rancor soon as it can get tutored by commune instead of just getting pitched, but we are already so tight on card slots. (I wish we had a from the grave option?)
If anyone has the chance to try the deck with leyline, rancor, or anything else I'd love to hear, or if anyone has any questions I can answer I'll do my best.
Really wish we had a second vengevine-like guy, I know that will never happen though ;_;
If you're going to make it Jund with Bloodghast, Lotleth Trolls and Dredgers, you are better off making a pure Dredgevine-deck. Or else you will dillute it so much that you have two playstyles mixed in one deck, whilst both these strategies are relying on a focused deck. We already mulligan bad as it is.
Burning Tree Vengevine
18 Lands
4 Wooded Foothills
2 misty rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 bloodstained mire
3 Stomping Ground
3 Mountain
2 Forest
14 spells
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lightning Bolt
4 gather the pack
2 rancor
28 creatures
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Hidden Herbalists
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Vengevine
4 narnam renegade
3 Flamewake Phoenix
3 hooting mandrels
2 MYR superiorion
Sideboard ???
0 Gnaw to the bone
3 Fulminator Mage
3 Destructive Revelry
3 Boil
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Reclamation sage
0 fog
I've named my take on the deck Burning Bushes. My latest list (which will be updated if there are changes) can be found here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/burning-bushes-2/
The deck has gone through multiple small changes since the last time I posted here, but the core remains the same. I will gladly answer here on this thread or by PM if you have questions about the deck, card choices, sideboarding plans or other topics.
Some recent tournament results:
3-1 at local 20 person Modern event, losing to Mono Blue Turns (did not have Gaddock Teegs in the deck at that time)
3-2 at Competitive Modern League (had 2 Faerie Macabres and 1 Domri Rade instead of Leyline of the Voids, other than that the most recent list)
4-1 at Competitive Modern League few days ago (2-0 UR storm, 2-0 Dredge, 2-1 Affinity, 1-2 GB elves, 2-0 Esper Delve, the list was the most recent one)
Modo nick: kortero
Rokla84 @ twitch (I rarely stream, but sometimes you can find me streaming Comp. Leagues)
Br,
Roope