The idea is to use madcap experiment to get out Lich's Mirror doing enough damage to kill yourself trigger the mirror and get a new hand.
You might say "thats a terrible idea, you'll end up with no board and nothing to protect yourself with. Everything gets shuffled back into the library." While the first part of the sentence is true, you do keep suspended cards and mana in your pool. With rituals we could potentially cast Mad Cap experiment a second time. If not we can let Duskwood Baloth come off of suspend.
To ensure we live long enough to die to madcap experiment and to ensure madcap experiment does kill us the phyrexian mana cards give us some early presence and removal.
I don't really know how such a deck might look though so here's my attempt.
The problem with the deck is that the payoff is too low. Same with other combo decks like restore balance,once people combo off a few well timed burn spells can get rid of your win after you combo.
Load it up with burn spells. Play 4 of Bolts, Lava Spike, Rift Bolt, etc. You main or only target is the dome. Once you get to 4 you play the mirror. This causes you to "game loss" and gives you a new hand to fling more burn at the face. I'd also suggest Volcanic Fllout as a way to attempt board control. There is also the 3cc red spell that either damages creatures or the player. Would also go with a set of the landfall double red burn spell as it hits a creature and a player.
Splash red and or white for the charm burn spells is a good idea.
Basic line of thought is you want to deal around 13 or slightly more damage the "first game".After you reset it's unlikely the opponent can kill you before you get to 2 lands so drawing into 2 or even 3 burn spells isn't too far fetched.
Pro tip. You do not want play a land and then play the mirror... Ever. You want the reset then play the land so you have burn ready to fire off then and there.
Also want mirror to be a 2 or 3 of. Not 1. You don't want to draw it and then just lose.
Load it up with burn spells. Play 4 of Bolts, Lava Spike, Rift Bolt, etc. You main or only target is the dome. Once you get to 4 you play the mirror. This causes you to "game loss" and gives you a new hand to fling more burn at the face. I'd also suggest Volcanic Fllout as a way to attempt board control. There is also the 3cc red spell that either damages creatures or the player. Would also go with a set of the landfall double red burn spell as it hits a creature and a player.
Splash red and or white for the charm burn spells is a good idea.
Basic line of thought is you want to deal around 13 or slightly more damage the "first game".After you reset it's unlikely the opponent can kill you before you get to 2 lands so drawing into 2 or even 3 burn spells isn't too far fetched.
Pro tip. You do not want play a land and then play the mirror... Ever. You want the reset then play the land so you have burn ready to fire off then and there.
Also want mirror to be a 2 or 3 of. Not 1. You don't want to draw it and then just lose.
This actually seems like the most viable use for this. Lich's Mirror "burn."
This is actually hilarious because you can just keep looping the mirror. I would suggest Greater Gargadon as a suspend threat since it can sacrifice all of your permanents before you kill yourself with Lich's Mirror and then it will come off of suspend faster than any other option. If your board is getting reset then why not put it to use!
Ideally turn one bolt of some sort, turn two another bolt or maybe 2 bolts, turn 3 Madcap off of SSG to reload against aggro or turn 3 double bolt if not. That's 15 damage with a T4 Madcap/Mirror play. Not sure its fast enough but it could be fun.
Reloading your hand turn 4 (or turn 3 with a SSG) could bring one or ideally 2 SSG to your hand and you could hit for 9 after a Madcap into Mirror. Really glass cannon stuff it seems but could be fun to put together for casual Modern.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
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Switch your numbers of searing blaze and incinerate. Add in 4 to 8 fetch lands to be able to hit landfall on your opponents turn is also critical. Remember that you don't care about their creatures too much, but want to remove them if you can. So fallout or the 3 mana burn creatures or players can work. fallout gets you close to mirror reset while also busting up some plans... Buying you time, and the other one gives you the option should you not have madcap in hand. There will be times that you have to buy a little time to reset.
I'd strongly suggest not running devil. After reset it's just awful. They have an established board and you are punching for the last few damage. You don't need to be playing a 4/3 with no abilities that is either chump blocked or they have things bigger than him.
Also I don't like the plan of GG. I love the card, but they have time to set up defense in their deck. Every card you play has to be guaranteed impact. GG doesn't do that. Just dies to path or blocked for as long as they need.
SB should be the red green card that destroys an enchantment Or artifact and deals 2 damage so you don't auto lose to Leyline. And probably 2 to 3 other enchantment and artifact destroying spells. That way you can have 7 or 8 of those for Leyline and worship decks.
I'd suggest flames of the bloodhand be SB. Run the red green charm in the maindeck in its place. That or boros charm.
Would also probably stay away from goblin guide as post reset you really don't want him.
Switched the SSG for rituals since SSG exiles. Post reset is when you really want the mana if it's available.
Thought about Bedlam Revelers but figured post reset you won't have the time. I could be wrong but that's something we can discuss later if needed.
Edit²: A possible good idea would be to play 2 either plat angels or 8/8 your life doesn't change guys in the SB. Take out the mirrors for them game 2 or 3 for yet another surprise.
I like your thoughts on a SB of 2 Platinum Angel or 2Platinum Emperion as a surprise out of the SB. I will also think about the Incinerate/Searing Blood numbers as you mentioned as well. Thanks.
I think I would want to keep it mono Red for the simple fact that any fetch or shock with ZERO creatures to block any aggro ground pounders may not even keep you alive to turn 4 to pull off the combo. I still think I may even want Blood Moon in the SB as well. And I agree, I don't really want GG as well. Leyline of Sanctity will be a big problem Game 2 and 3 going mono red for sure. I could be tempted to splash white for Boros Charm, Lightning Helix and the Wear//Tear. I appreciate your suggestions though and will consider.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Why would you play a worse version of a Burn deck ?
Madcap Experiment and Lich's Mirror don't help this strategy att all.
If you just wanted to refill your hand there is Bedlam Reveler and even it isn't efficient enough and too slow and clunky for a Burn deck.
Why would you play a worse version of a Burn deck ?
Why does anyone play any other deck other than a Tier 1? The challenge of course. I don't think anyone is saying this combo is competitive, but that doesn't mean we can't test to find its limits. I'll do what I want to do.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Do you have proof this is a worse version of a burn deck? In all honesty it very well could be, but it does have its advantages also. Like if you look at my suggested starting point it was directly taken off of the burn page... Minus the creatures and added in our little combo. So we blank all their removal while also getting us a back up plan. Doesn't sound that bad.
If I am correct artifact destruction does nothing to us as we lose is a state based action and the trigger from the mirror goes on the stack.. It triggers on resolution of the spell and doesn't require the mirror to still be present at resolution of the mirrors ability. This is very strong.
So unless we are infected out or they can immediately repeat the condition we will get another turn or two. That's potentially another 9 to 12 damage. As in bolt, bump, rift, spike then Patiential 2nd free turn ritual and some combination of those.
A card I was thinking about that may have a place is magma jet. Whike I hate the card it seems like if it should go in any deck this would be the one. I just hate the damage for cost it gives.
Last point is blood moon. I hope you would reconsider. Plan C isn't a good idea. And after they put pressure on you and you reset I don't see what advantages moon could hope to provide.
A card I was thinking about that may have a place is magma jet. Whike I hate the card it seems like if it should go in any deck this would be the one. I just hate the damage for cost it gives.
I gave it heavy consideration, and still am open to it. The Scry2 could be VERY pertinent in a deck like this.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Just personally, what I think I'd do with this shell is a mono red storm deck.
Four mana for a Timetwister effect is kind of amazing, depending on how you can use it.
That's exactly the right way to look at it. I didn't see it like that. I was just looking at it as a one card combo, but most time twister effects have a draw back now. Weather it be cost or exiles cards from your deck. This one twistes only you but also hits all your cards in play.
I'd be interested in seeing what you can brew as a storm variant. I see the 8 rituals and the SSGs. Can play street wreaths and probes to run effectively a 52 card deck, but storming with that looks like it'll require lots of luck. Are there any more playable cards that exile and are not artifacts that red has access to? If you can somehow eliminate 10 to 15 cards with the prereset then you could possibly reliably hit the experiment... All the while probes, gutshot, etc building your storm count while also getting you into experiment range. The more I think about it I believe you would have to play many colors though. Just to get the few exile effects they offer. Memnite and path for example. The 2/2 merfolk for wu wu that has: wu untap exile the top card of your deck... If you can get it down to 40 or so cards, between the 8 rituals you may be able to infinity go off.
In all honestly I don't see the storm working, but I'll try to think of a decklist to get the ball rolling there
Double post but it's a completely different topic so I hope it's cool.
Don't forget it's completely okay to play fetches and shocks in these builds since all they really do is help you get into experiment range.
Even in mono red if you have the money you can run these. Last thing you want to do is play experiment and go down low in life just to have the mirror blown up and you bolted.
Even in mono red if you have the money you can run these. Last thing you want to do is play experiment and go down low in life just to have the mirror blown up and you bolted.
Madcap is a Sorcery, so why would keeping a fetch up on opponents turn make any difference? Am I missing something? Is it simply to try to ensure you get to 0 life so the mirror activates? You can always keep the mana up and play the instants on opponents end step either to their face or if they target the mirror then instant on yourself. I'm missing something I guess. Help me out.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Because Searing Blaze is a boss. It's kinda like bolt bolt all in one card.
But yeah. If you are running some other variant than the burn one you are basically knocking your life down to a point where the mirror resets. You would hate to play experiment and go down to a very low life total just to have the mirror blown up and then they hit you for the last few points of damage.
OK thanks. I figured it out shortly after I posted up my question but thank you. And I would probably splash W then for Boros Charm and some sideboard material.
Largest and most obvious problem with running a deck around a package like this is how to get it consistently by turn 4 or 5. I see that being the biggest problem right now.
On a side note, part of me wants to find a place for Thunderous Wrath but I have a feeling its a trap.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
OK thanks. I figured it out shortly after I posted up my question but thank you. And I would probably splash W then for Boros Charm and some sideboard material.
Largest and most obvious problem with running a deck around a package like this is how to get it consistently by turn 4 or 5. I see that being the biggest problem right now.
On a side note, part of me wants to find a place for Thunderous Wrath but I have a feeling its a trap.
I posted my proposed starting point for the burn variant a few posts ago. Boros charm already included as well as a good SB option.
I think what some people are missing about the burn variant is that it is completely capable of winning without the experimental mirror combo. It's a fairly well tuned burn deck just with a few twists. Creatures were removed since we do not want to draw them after the reset. A turn 1 dude in modern can't compete with turn 3 or 4 dude. So they are out. The advantages are every removal spell they run are now blanked. From path to decay to dismember. Wraths decrees and bridges are useless against you. Virtual CA. Then the one artifact we do run cannot be responded to so all the traditional SB cards people play are useless. We have SB options to deal with them however. Then you also gain the ability of suddenly gaining back all your life and redrawing you hand in a pinch. Fueling it up with more burn. Do this turn 3 or 4 and they likely cannot knock you back down for 2 or even 3 turns. That's several more bolts and bumps they have to survive.
Trying to figure out how to put Atarkas Command in the main deck. All but one of its modes are great. I can already tell you will almost always deal 3, but the other 2 are so good also. Since you never want to play your land then cast experiment the putting in a land Eot can save you plenty of games. After reset you don't get your land drop back so you'll want to save it for post combo. When you are nearly out of burn cards going Eot command for a fetch then cracking it for a shock land will both get your life lower so exp can more likely hit for you, opens up for another 1 mana burn spell. As in command, 3 damage, play land, bolt and gets you to 4 mana in time for fast decks.
Have an update for you guys. I borrowed most the deck last night. Subbing out my usual amulet titan deck for a week. May play this again in two weeks when I can return to the shop.
I went 3-1 with this. Made some changes to the main board also. Blightning seemed like a good idea as it was quick to play and put them back as well as doing damage. Blightning preformed well enough. There was only one game where I would have preferred a spell that could hit creatures. But that isn't the plan now is it?
Also put command in the main. This proved to be a great idea. Burn spells that do other things are great. So between command and Blightning I was looking for as much utility as possible.
Now about the combo... So if burn is a thing in your meta it's best to not play this combo. Had to call a judge over since I did not realize setting your life total and gaining or losing is the same thing. Apparently a skull crack before combo is gg. Lol
Will write up a little later.
So first about the deck. I took out the rituals to make it more all in burn. Added in a few multipurpose burn spells to get advantage from doing what the deck wants to do.
I'm not sure that this build is optimal since I really did want to keep my rituals in here, but I don't have any currently and my friend wanted to keep his storm deck intact.
So on to the FNM. I went 3-1 in a semi competitive environment. Our shop is geared towards fun so heavy discard is frowned upon. (Can't play heavy counters or LD either, but since those doesn't really exist in modern it's not really important)
I'll also be including some funny dialog that happened with some people if it reflex on something of importance.
Round 1 was 2-0 Vs Abzan controlish
Match 1 starts off like every tournament should. I draw burn and lots of it. Turn 1 suspend rift Bolt. He plays a mana dork. Turn 2 rift hits for 3 and I pass turn. He plays lingering souls I believe. I command for damage and the land drop. Followed by fetching for a foundry and bolting him. My turn bump followed by a land drop and pass. He plays a rhino. I skullcrack in response. He swings I'm at 14 he's at 7. On my turn I played the fresh land and did the boros bump. Game 2.
Every deck with white in it I put in the revelry if I lost game 1 I'll also add in the wear and tears but only need the damage since I won game 1. Revelry and 2 of the palms come in.
Game starts with a bird. Must be his budget 5th mana dork. I start off with a bump after going to 17. His turn is a IoK hitting a blaze and some 2 drop, don't remember which one. I rip a command and think a rhino is coming next turn so land pass. Not seeing a crack or command he plays the rhino. Command being the boss it is causes us both to take 3 with no life gain. My turn I go down to 10 or 11. I hit the jackpot. Land pass. He swings in to met a deflecting palm and a bolt. Took 7 and I take 3. Plays another rhino. Oh no. Next turn I play exp. Nothing of big deal here. The mirror is way deep in the deck. I reset and Rift Bolt. He swings for 11. My turn is a series of command and bolt for GG. Would not have survived another strike.
MVP were command, and exp combo.
Half way through second game a friend came up. The friend I borrowed the cards from to let him borrow my deck. I looked like dude over already? He smiled and said 2-0. I asked how that fast? He said he wasn't playing mana tithe. I'm completely puzzled. My deck isn't that fast. Not since recent bannings. Insane!
Round 2 2-1 BW Tokens
Now this is a kinda diluted deck since the shop frowns on heavy discard. The guy is really good and usually plays at the other shop in town that's highly competitive. He plays the legal limit of hand discard... 6. Owner thinks more than that makes games too boring. Lol
Game 1 is very typical from a slightly lower T deck. He plays guys and rips what he can out of hand while I shoot him in the face. Nothing note worth happens here.
game 2 he wins but only because my exp combo failed. next card was the mirror. It was destroyed. I mentioned how odd that was to be playing disenchant effects when the mirror can't be responded to. He said I had a feeling you may put in plat empormum. (Yes, me and my friends all ready and talk on here. He knows I'm the one that suggested them in the side, but since I didn't put them in the board for this even... Lol) So dumb luck and a few emblems and he takes the game. Friend walks back up smiling. I say no mana tithe? He nods and goes smoke.
Game 3 starts with a rift Bolt and a thoughtseize. He take boros charm. My turn is land pass. He plays a wayfairer and I command him with the land drop and bolt. My turn is land pass. He plays a invocation for three 1/1 fliers. 2 meet blazes. Losing 2 dudes and taking 6 put him so far back that sorin couldn't get him back in the game. Lifelink isn't that good against a deck with as much cracks and commands as I have.
MVP - Skullcrack and Atarka's Command
So match 3 and the reason I've been telling you about my friend. We get paired up and I really have no clear idea of what to expect. Obviously he made changes to the deck, but since summer bloom was banned it's not as fast as he describes. Let's see what's up.
Game 1. I win the roll and say I'm so interested in seeing what's up with your alterations. "Okay. You good?"he asked. I said yeah keep. He reveals Chancellor of the Tangle. I'm thinking he just swapped those out for the SSGs. I play some land fetch and play a bump. His turn he plays an amulet off the free green. Plays Crumbling Vestige. Okay that's new also. Adds a green and plays ancient strings. Digs 5 and taps the vestige for another amulet. Wow! Okay my turn I play bolt and a bump. His turn he plays a semic growth chamber. Adds 4. Uses 3 for azusa makes 8. Uses 3 more leaving 6 floating for Journey. Makes 8 more. Taps the turn 1 land for 15. Casts Emmy! Turn 2 Emmy in modern! I wish I played mana tithe right now. I don't have a chance and just lose this game.
After that explosion I feel I need all the artifact removal possible. And need palms to deflect the damage away from me. I start with a pretty decent hand. He asks "okay, you good?" Yes. He reveals Chancellor. I play a land and fetch. He starts with a tribe scout and amulet. I bolt the snake and on my turn destructive revelry. His turn plays a probe, ancient strings, another amulet. My turn I play wear on the new amulet. He then plays another scout. Which I play a Blightning. His hand is now in disrepair, but discards an Emmy and a Titan. Shuffled up. Probably to increase the odds of getting an amulet soon. He can't pull out Before my burn his him hard. Attacking with a 1/1 snake doesn't get it done against burn.
Game 3 he's finally on the play and I'm worried. Fairly explosive turn 3 put a hasted titan on the field. I played Rift Bolt and then blaze to kill off the titan which put him at 14. Turn 4 he fires off with azusa and journey again casting titan which then went got 2 red hideaway lands. Digging 8 deep he cast Emmy. Turn 4 titan Emmy is pretty good I hear. I got him though. He swings I float the mana and play deflecting palm on the Emmy damage to send it back on him for the win!!! I'm excited! The version he played played better than my own deck ever has, but wasn't quite enough to get there off of some dumb luck. 2-1
MVP Deflecting Palm easy
Match 3 was 1-2 against true burn and I was caught by a rule I didn't know. Setting your life at a point higher than it is is actually life gain. Not just setting it. I won the first game due to him not knowing what to expect.Nearly pulled off the 3rd game with some dumb luck, but didn't quite get there. Here goes
Game 1 he wins the roll and plays a guide. I play land and suspend rift bolt as I don't have a bolt for next attack. This would be the game I hated Blightning. Worked so well up until this point. We go back and forth. His guide did get hit with a revelry around turn 4. I had my exp combo and won the game as his hand was depleated and I got my life back and a new hand.
Game 2 he looks defeated. But pulled it out when my exp combo was met with skull crack. His eyes got bright when I played exp. He obviously knew the rule. The mirror was deep in the deck so I went to like -15.
Game 3 was close. I start off with bolts and helix (which were not showing up too much until this game. I think I cast 2 up until this point. This game had me cast 3 and was why it was close. By the end of it he's sitting there holding 2 cards. I'm pretty sure 1 or both is no life gain effects so am relunttent to pull the trigger. When he rips a burn he plays it. My life total is slowly going lower so I have to. I'm sitting on 7 mana, 3rd helix, and exp. I decide to try. Maybe he's bluffing. Nope. Wasn't. I cast experiment. He responds with Atarka's Command. I respond with my helix. Going to 8. Command puts me at 5. I flip 2 cards and there is my mirror going to 3. I'm safe. Or so I think. He destroys it with a lucky top deck. Before I draw another combo or burn he rips his last needed burn spell to win.
LVP - me. But now I know the rule so if I try it again in 2 weeks I'll try to better position the combo.
All in all the deck preformed. I never saw Leyline, but that could strongly be because of the environment. I'm surprised at the last 2 matches. I feel I should have possibly lost 3rd and won the 4th.
Probably not best to SB in 4 reverlery, 2 wear//tear and 2 Smash to smithereens. But I wanted to make sure the amulet stayed off the board. Also wasn't sure if maybe he would have brought in WurmCoil Engine since that's a favorite card of his. Those in the sb along with the rakdos are for affinity. But I try to cross my distraction up to cover as many bases as possible. All in all what do y'all think?
You might say "thats a terrible idea, you'll end up with no board and nothing to protect yourself with. Everything gets shuffled back into the library." While the first part of the sentence is true, you do keep suspended cards and mana in your pool. With rituals we could potentially cast Mad Cap experiment a second time. If not we can let Duskwood Baloth come off of suspend.
To ensure we live long enough to die to madcap experiment and to ensure madcap experiment does kill us the phyrexian mana cards give us some early presence and removal.
I don't really know how such a deck might look though so here's my attempt.
This is my attempt at the deck. I was thinking about including some Soulfire Grandmaster and Chronomantic Escape.
Splash red and or white for the charm burn spells is a good idea.
Basic line of thought is you want to deal around 13 or slightly more damage the "first game".After you reset it's unlikely the opponent can kill you before you get to 2 lands so drawing into 2 or even 3 burn spells isn't too far fetched.
Pro tip. You do not want play a land and then play the mirror... Ever. You want the reset then play the land so you have burn ready to fire off then and there.
Also want mirror to be a 2 or 3 of. Not 1. You don't want to draw it and then just lose.
This actually seems like the most viable use for this. Lich's Mirror "burn."
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
4 Madcap Experiment
2 Lich's Mirror
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Shard Volley
4 Skullcrack
4 Incinerate
2 Searing Blaze
4 Flames of the Blood Hand
No SB yet either but cards like Volcanic Fallout Anger of the Gods Guerrilla Tactics Wheel of Fate Reforge the Soul and artifact hate could account for some of the SB. Its also tempting to run Blood Moon or a couple of Vexing Devilbut maybe they would be better in the 15 not the main 60.
Ideally turn one bolt of some sort, turn two another bolt or maybe 2 bolts, turn 3 Madcap off of SSG to reload against aggro or turn 3 double bolt if not. That's 15 damage with a T4 Madcap/Mirror play. Not sure its fast enough but it could be fun.
Reloading your hand turn 4 (or turn 3 with a SSG) could bring one or ideally 2 SSG to your hand and you could hit for 9 after a Madcap into Mirror. Really glass cannon stuff it seems but could be fun to put together for casual Modern.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'd strongly suggest not running devil. After reset it's just awful. They have an established board and you are punching for the last few damage. You don't need to be playing a 4/3 with no abilities that is either chump blocked or they have things bigger than him.
Also I don't like the plan of GG. I love the card, but they have time to set up defense in their deck. Every card you play has to be guaranteed impact. GG doesn't do that. Just dies to path or blocked for as long as they need.
SB should be the red green card that destroys an enchantment Or artifact and deals 2 damage so you don't auto lose to Leyline. And probably 2 to 3 other enchantment and artifact destroying spells. That way you can have 7 or 8 of those for Leyline and worship decks.
I'd suggest flames of the bloodhand be SB. Run the red green charm in the maindeck in its place. That or boros charm.
Would also probably stay away from goblin guide as post reset you really don't want him.
Edit: Figured out a decent starting deck base.
4 Lava Spike
4 Bump in the Night
4 Rift Bolt
4 Madcap Experiment
INSTANTS (21)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
3 Desperate Ritual
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Lich's Mirror
LANDS (21)
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Marsh Flats
2 Blood Crypt
3 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
3 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Atarka's Command
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Rakdos Charm
3 Deflecting Palm
2 Smash to smithereens
Switched the SSG for rituals since SSG exiles. Post reset is when you really want the mana if it's available.
Thought about Bedlam Revelers but figured post reset you won't have the time. I could be wrong but that's something we can discuss later if needed.
Edit²: A possible good idea would be to play 2 either plat angels or 8/8 your life doesn't change guys in the SB. Take out the mirrors for them game 2 or 3 for yet another surprise.
I think I would want to keep it mono Red for the simple fact that any fetch or shock with ZERO creatures to block any aggro ground pounders may not even keep you alive to turn 4 to pull off the combo. I still think I may even want Blood Moon in the SB as well. And I agree, I don't really want GG as well. Leyline of Sanctity will be a big problem Game 2 and 3 going mono red for sure. I could be tempted to splash white for Boros Charm, Lightning Helix and the Wear//Tear. I appreciate your suggestions though and will consider.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Madcap Experiment and Lich's Mirror don't help this strategy att all.
If you just wanted to refill your hand there is Bedlam Reveler and even it isn't efficient enough and too slow and clunky for a Burn deck.
Why does anyone play any other deck other than a Tier 1? The challenge of course. I don't think anyone is saying this combo is competitive, but that doesn't mean we can't test to find its limits. I'll do what I want to do.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
If I am correct artifact destruction does nothing to us as we lose is a state based action and the trigger from the mirror goes on the stack.. It triggers on resolution of the spell and doesn't require the mirror to still be present at resolution of the mirrors ability. This is very strong.
So unless we are infected out or they can immediately repeat the condition we will get another turn or two. That's potentially another 9 to 12 damage. As in bolt, bump, rift, spike then Patiential 2nd free turn ritual and some combination of those.
A card I was thinking about that may have a place is magma jet. Whike I hate the card it seems like if it should go in any deck this would be the one. I just hate the damage for cost it gives.
Last point is blood moon. I hope you would reconsider. Plan C isn't a good idea. And after they put pressure on you and you reset I don't see what advantages moon could hope to provide.
I gave it heavy consideration, and still am open to it. The Scry2 could be VERY pertinent in a deck like this.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Four mana for a Timetwister effect is kind of amazing, depending on how you can use it.
That's exactly the right way to look at it. I didn't see it like that. I was just looking at it as a one card combo, but most time twister effects have a draw back now. Weather it be cost or exiles cards from your deck. This one twistes only you but also hits all your cards in play.
I'd be interested in seeing what you can brew as a storm variant. I see the 8 rituals and the SSGs. Can play street wreaths and probes to run effectively a 52 card deck, but storming with that looks like it'll require lots of luck. Are there any more playable cards that exile and are not artifacts that red has access to? If you can somehow eliminate 10 to 15 cards with the prereset then you could possibly reliably hit the experiment... All the while probes, gutshot, etc building your storm count while also getting you into experiment range. The more I think about it I believe you would have to play many colors though. Just to get the few exile effects they offer. Memnite and path for example. The 2/2 merfolk for wu wu that has: wu untap exile the top card of your deck... If you can get it down to 40 or so cards, between the 8 rituals you may be able to infinity go off.
In all honestly I don't see the storm working, but I'll try to think of a decklist to get the ball rolling there
4 Street wraith
4 Gutshot
3 Path to Exile
3 Memnite
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Desperate ritual
4 the other ritual
4 Madcap experiment
2 Lich's Mirror
1 Grapeshot
20 land
Don't forget it's completely okay to play fetches and shocks in these builds since all they really do is help you get into experiment range.
Even in mono red if you have the money you can run these. Last thing you want to do is play experiment and go down low in life just to have the mirror blown up and you bolted.
Madcap is a Sorcery, so why would keeping a fetch up on opponents turn make any difference? Am I missing something? Is it simply to try to ensure you get to 0 life so the mirror activates? You can always keep the mana up and play the instants on opponents end step either to their face or if they target the mirror then instant on yourself. I'm missing something I guess. Help me out.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
But yeah. If you are running some other variant than the burn one you are basically knocking your life down to a point where the mirror resets. You would hate to play experiment and go down to a very low life total just to have the mirror blown up and then they hit you for the last few points of damage.
Largest and most obvious problem with running a deck around a package like this is how to get it consistently by turn 4 or 5. I see that being the biggest problem right now.
On a side note, part of me wants to find a place for Thunderous Wrath but I have a feeling its a trap.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I posted my proposed starting point for the burn variant a few posts ago. Boros charm already included as well as a good SB option.
I think what some people are missing about the burn variant is that it is completely capable of winning without the experimental mirror combo. It's a fairly well tuned burn deck just with a few twists. Creatures were removed since we do not want to draw them after the reset. A turn 1 dude in modern can't compete with turn 3 or 4 dude. So they are out. The advantages are every removal spell they run are now blanked. From path to decay to dismember. Wraths decrees and bridges are useless against you. Virtual CA. Then the one artifact we do run cannot be responded to so all the traditional SB cards people play are useless. We have SB options to deal with them however. Then you also gain the ability of suddenly gaining back all your life and redrawing you hand in a pinch. Fueling it up with more burn. Do this turn 3 or 4 and they likely cannot knock you back down for 2 or even 3 turns. That's several more bolts and bumps they have to survive.
Trying to figure out how to put Atarkas Command in the main deck. All but one of its modes are great. I can already tell you will almost always deal 3, but the other 2 are so good also. Since you never want to play your land then cast experiment the putting in a land Eot can save you plenty of games. After reset you don't get your land drop back so you'll want to save it for post combo. When you are nearly out of burn cards going Eot command for a fetch then cracking it for a shock land will both get your life lower so exp can more likely hit for you, opens up for another 1 mana burn spell. As in command, 3 damage, play land, bolt and gets you to 4 mana in time for fast decks.
I went 3-1 with this. Made some changes to the main board also. Blightning seemed like a good idea as it was quick to play and put them back as well as doing damage. Blightning preformed well enough. There was only one game where I would have preferred a spell that could hit creatures. But that isn't the plan now is it?
Also put command in the main. This proved to be a great idea. Burn spells that do other things are great. So between command and Blightning I was looking for as much utility as possible.
Now about the combo... So if burn is a thing in your meta it's best to not play this combo. Had to call a judge over since I did not realize setting your life total and gaining or losing is the same thing. Apparently a skull crack before combo is gg. Lol
Will write up a little later.
I'm not sure that this build is optimal since I really did want to keep my rituals in here, but I don't have any currently and my friend wanted to keep his storm deck intact.
4 Lava Spike
3 Bump in the Night
4 Rift Bolt
4 Madcap Experiment
INSTANTS (22)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Skullcrack
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
2 Blightning
2 Lich's Mirror
LANDS (21)
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Marsh Flats
2 Blood Crypt
3 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
3 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Wear//Tear
4 Destructive Revelry
3 Rakdos Charm
4 Deflecting Palm
2 Smash to smithereens
So on to the FNM. I went 3-1 in a semi competitive environment. Our shop is geared towards fun so heavy discard is frowned upon. (Can't play heavy counters or LD either, but since those doesn't really exist in modern it's not really important)
I'll also be including some funny dialog that happened with some people if it reflex on something of importance.
Round 1 was 2-0 Vs Abzan controlish
Match 1 starts off like every tournament should. I draw burn and lots of it. Turn 1 suspend rift Bolt. He plays a mana dork. Turn 2 rift hits for 3 and I pass turn. He plays lingering souls I believe. I command for damage and the land drop. Followed by fetching for a foundry and bolting him. My turn bump followed by a land drop and pass. He plays a rhino. I skullcrack in response. He swings I'm at 14 he's at 7. On my turn I played the fresh land and did the boros bump. Game 2.
Every deck with white in it I put in the revelry if I lost game 1 I'll also add in the wear and tears but only need the damage since I won game 1. Revelry and 2 of the palms come in.
Game starts with a bird. Must be his budget 5th mana dork. I start off with a bump after going to 17. His turn is a IoK hitting a blaze and some 2 drop, don't remember which one. I rip a command and think a rhino is coming next turn so land pass. Not seeing a crack or command he plays the rhino. Command being the boss it is causes us both to take 3 with no life gain. My turn I go down to 10 or 11. I hit the jackpot. Land pass. He swings in to met a deflecting palm and a bolt. Took 7 and I take 3. Plays another rhino. Oh no. Next turn I play exp. Nothing of big deal here. The mirror is way deep in the deck. I reset and Rift Bolt. He swings for 11. My turn is a series of command and bolt for GG. Would not have survived another strike.
MVP were command, and exp combo.
Half way through second game a friend came up. The friend I borrowed the cards from to let him borrow my deck. I looked like dude over already? He smiled and said 2-0. I asked how that fast? He said he wasn't playing mana tithe. I'm completely puzzled. My deck isn't that fast. Not since recent bannings. Insane!
Round 2 2-1 BW Tokens
Now this is a kinda diluted deck since the shop frowns on heavy discard. The guy is really good and usually plays at the other shop in town that's highly competitive. He plays the legal limit of hand discard... 6. Owner thinks more than that makes games too boring. Lol
Game 1 is very typical from a slightly lower T deck. He plays guys and rips what he can out of hand while I shoot him in the face. Nothing note worth happens here.
game 2 he wins but only because my exp combo failed. next card was the mirror. It was destroyed. I mentioned how odd that was to be playing disenchant effects when the mirror can't be responded to. He said I had a feeling you may put in plat empormum. (Yes, me and my friends all ready and talk on here. He knows I'm the one that suggested them in the side, but since I didn't put them in the board for this even... Lol) So dumb luck and a few emblems and he takes the game. Friend walks back up smiling. I say no mana tithe? He nods and goes smoke.
Game 3 starts with a rift Bolt and a thoughtseize. He take boros charm. My turn is land pass. He plays a wayfairer and I command him with the land drop and bolt. My turn is land pass. He plays a invocation for three 1/1 fliers. 2 meet blazes. Losing 2 dudes and taking 6 put him so far back that sorin couldn't get him back in the game. Lifelink isn't that good against a deck with as much cracks and commands as I have.
MVP - Skullcrack and Atarka's Command
So match 3 and the reason I've been telling you about my friend. We get paired up and I really have no clear idea of what to expect. Obviously he made changes to the deck, but since summer bloom was banned it's not as fast as he describes. Let's see what's up.
Game 1. I win the roll and say I'm so interested in seeing what's up with your alterations. "Okay. You good?"he asked. I said yeah keep. He reveals Chancellor of the Tangle. I'm thinking he just swapped those out for the SSGs. I play some land fetch and play a bump. His turn he plays an amulet off the free green. Plays Crumbling Vestige. Okay that's new also. Adds a green and plays ancient strings. Digs 5 and taps the vestige for another amulet. Wow! Okay my turn I play bolt and a bump. His turn he plays a semic growth chamber. Adds 4. Uses 3 for azusa makes 8. Uses 3 more leaving 6 floating for Journey. Makes 8 more. Taps the turn 1 land for 15. Casts Emmy! Turn 2 Emmy in modern! I wish I played mana tithe right now. I don't have a chance and just lose this game.
After that explosion I feel I need all the artifact removal possible. And need palms to deflect the damage away from me. I start with a pretty decent hand. He asks "okay, you good?" Yes. He reveals Chancellor. I play a land and fetch. He starts with a tribe scout and amulet. I bolt the snake and on my turn destructive revelry. His turn plays a probe, ancient strings, another amulet. My turn I play wear on the new amulet. He then plays another scout. Which I play a Blightning. His hand is now in disrepair, but discards an Emmy and a Titan. Shuffled up. Probably to increase the odds of getting an amulet soon. He can't pull out Before my burn his him hard. Attacking with a 1/1 snake doesn't get it done against burn.
Game 3 he's finally on the play and I'm worried. Fairly explosive turn 3 put a hasted titan on the field. I played Rift Bolt and then blaze to kill off the titan which put him at 14. Turn 4 he fires off with azusa and journey again casting titan which then went got 2 red hideaway lands. Digging 8 deep he cast Emmy. Turn 4 titan Emmy is pretty good I hear. I got him though. He swings I float the mana and play deflecting palm on the Emmy damage to send it back on him for the win!!! I'm excited! The version he played played better than my own deck ever has, but wasn't quite enough to get there off of some dumb luck. 2-1
MVP Deflecting Palm easy
Match 3 was 1-2 against true burn and I was caught by a rule I didn't know. Setting your life at a point higher than it is is actually life gain. Not just setting it. I won the first game due to him not knowing what to expect.Nearly pulled off the 3rd game with some dumb luck, but didn't quite get there. Here goes
Game 1 he wins the roll and plays a guide. I play land and suspend rift bolt as I don't have a bolt for next attack. This would be the game I hated Blightning. Worked so well up until this point. We go back and forth. His guide did get hit with a revelry around turn 4. I had my exp combo and won the game as his hand was depleated and I got my life back and a new hand.
Game 2 he looks defeated. But pulled it out when my exp combo was met with skull crack. His eyes got bright when I played exp. He obviously knew the rule. The mirror was deep in the deck so I went to like -15.
Game 3 was close. I start off with bolts and helix (which were not showing up too much until this game. I think I cast 2 up until this point. This game had me cast 3 and was why it was close. By the end of it he's sitting there holding 2 cards. I'm pretty sure 1 or both is no life gain effects so am relunttent to pull the trigger. When he rips a burn he plays it. My life total is slowly going lower so I have to. I'm sitting on 7 mana, 3rd helix, and exp. I decide to try. Maybe he's bluffing. Nope. Wasn't. I cast experiment. He responds with Atarka's Command. I respond with my helix. Going to 8. Command puts me at 5. I flip 2 cards and there is my mirror going to 3. I'm safe. Or so I think. He destroys it with a lucky top deck. Before I draw another combo or burn he rips his last needed burn spell to win.
LVP - me. But now I know the rule so if I try it again in 2 weeks I'll try to better position the combo.
All in all the deck preformed. I never saw Leyline, but that could strongly be because of the environment. I'm surprised at the last 2 matches. I feel I should have possibly lost 3rd and won the 4th.
Probably not best to SB in 4 reverlery, 2 wear//tear and 2 Smash to smithereens. But I wanted to make sure the amulet stayed off the board. Also wasn't sure if maybe he would have brought in WurmCoil Engine since that's a favorite card of his. Those in the sb along with the rakdos are for affinity. But I try to cross my distraction up to cover as many bases as possible. All in all what do y'all think?