You probably don't want to rely on artifact mana to get out from under Stony Silence! I mean, you can float the mana in response to them casting it, but that's probably not something you want to rely on.
After playing some games with the deck there is definitely some inconsistency to the draws which is to be expected with 15x lands + 8x borderposts.
The weakest card seems to be Destructive Force which can be really akward without a really good ramp start.
Another option might be Ember Swallower which can get "monstrous" for a mini-Wildfire (that doesn't kill creatures) leaving behind a 7/8 creature.
I'm also not sure if Pithing Needle is good enough in the SB and probably going to try 2x Ratchet Bomb instead to deal with enchantments and big cheap creatures (DS, Goyf, Champion).
Took this deck to local FMN and went 2-2.
Round 1 8-Whack
Lighting Helix and Wrath kept me alive early until either wildfire or chandra closed the came out easy 2-0
Round 2 Jund
Thoughtsieze turn 1 both games slowed me down enough for gofy to kill me with Pulse used to kill my post. This match up seems horrible. He showed me what he sided in which was engineer explosives and abrupt decay to blow up my artifacts 0-2
Round 3 Nahiri Control
My Actual Opponent never showed so played casual games. We played about 10 games went 5-5 all depends on if he gets counters or not. turn 2 boom even tho it sets me back hurts them worse.
Round 4 Esper Death Shadow
Very close games lost 1-2 but all them came down to topdecking. boom hurts them so much that he had to use opt and visions to look for lands which i could than wildfire away. Delve Creatures kept him in the game.
Changes to sideboard
-1 Rule of Law +1Rest in Peace
no storm players in the meta and only 1 rip sucked against deathshadow. got 1 in game 2 n won because of it n needed it badly in game 3
-1 wear // tear +1 vandalblast
had 3 to deal with stony silence but with 2 orings n nahiri in main i think 2 is fine. blast gives me another answer to etched champion
Also think i wanna add Luminarch Ascensionto help against control.
First post. This is my take on it. It's seen a lot of kitchen play, but I haven't brought it to a FNM yet.
I'm liking Sunbird's Invocation here especially with Metalwork Colossus.
I'm thinking of switching Hedron Archive with Thran DynamoThran Dynamo, but the card draw has saved me more than extra colorless mana.
First post. This is my take on it. It's seen a lot of kitchen play, but I haven't brought it to a FNM yet.
I'm liking Sunbird's Invocation here especially with Metalwork Colossus.
I'm thinking of switching Hedron Archive with Thran DynamoThran Dynamo, but the card draw has saved me more than extra colorless mana.
Do note that Thran Dynamo is not Modern legal. It was printed in Urza's Destiny, and has only had reprints in supplemental sets since (FTV, Commander, Archenemy, Iconic Masters).
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I think that maxing out on Wildfire before adding copies of Destructive Force is the way to go, getting to 6-mana is usually much easier.
Despite not looking like much Guardian Idol is actually a pretty good mana rock that can slowly beat down the opponent as a 2/2 especially after you wrath away their lands and creatures, I'd take it over the Talismans despite being EtB tapped and not tapping for Red.
Hedron Archive is very good in the deck and I'd suggest playing 3-4x copies.
I initially had Chandra, Flamecaller in. I still switch her out instead of Stuffy doll on occasion, but I favor Stuffy because he's more my wall until I can get the other stuff out. I'm still on the fence because it's a slow,janky kill and doesn't help get rid of stuff but the 2 3/1 elementals don't stick around leaving me/Chandra defenseless.
I agree Sunbird is slow but once out, Colossus is usually free to cast which triggers Sunbird which I usually get a Destructive Force so I get a 10/10 creature + 5 damage to all creatures (sometimes including stuffy doll ) and my opponent is down 5 lands all for 6 mana.
I would recommend adding another color to help against cards like stony silence and protection from red creatures like master of waves white has been working for me. day of judgment and oblivion ring helps against both n white walkers help close games out. i would run boom // bust before running destructive force that extra mana cost makes it too slow in the testing ive had. guardian idol coming into play tap hurts it so much. talismans or lens can help fix mana in mono red doesnt matter but if u add another color it will.
I've never really had an answer for stony silence just prayed nobody played it. lol I've gotten lucky so far,
but if I keep running into it I'll put an answer in the sideboard.
I was going to try Boom//Bust when I read your post this morning. I feel like there's enough board wipes to replace some number of destructive force/wildfire.
Agreed guardian idol coming in tapped is too slow. Having a untapped talisman early game instead of a tapped guardian idol but also what also made me take guardian idol out of the deck was that red mana.
i wouldnt run more than 3 archives. im thinking about cutting 1 from my list but gonna try list as is one more time before i make changes. i would keep doll over reckoner because reckoner would just be a one time use. i feel day of judgment helps against cards that anger and wildfire have trouble killing. chandra, flamecaller is good she closes game fast with her +1 after a land clear n can wipe the field of small creatures
I haven't been able to bring this deck to my lgs. so not much testing outside of kitchen play - a bunch of tribal (8whack, elves, zombies, merfolk(no vials), mill, and a few others I can't remember.
8whack was pretty bad since they put smash to smithereens in. I haven't played a true burn deck, but I'm sure it would also suck to play against. (I haven't played against this deck since I put the Talismans in)
The mill and zombie (discard/controlish) decks I played against weren't to bad, but discarding/not having anything in hand sucks. mind stone and hedron archive helps with card draw but not enough plus its a loss of mana sources. I would like to add the 3rd hedron archive but 4cmc is to much when I'm trying to put down quick manarocks early, to pay for expensive stuff, before they can get enough land to punish me. Running out of cards/actions is why I'm testing Sunbird's Inovacation. I noticed losing a turn because of Sunbird's, but the following turns tend to go explosively in my favor.
I can see how splashing a another color would help, but this deck is hurting for mana + depends on expensive spells + I don't like losing life for dual/fetch/painlands if I'm just going to sacrifice it. I know I don't have an answer for enchantments like stony silence, but one day I will.
Creature anything decks I feel pretty good against. I think the plethora of cheap burn (galvanic blast/lightning bolt/pyrite spellbomb/anger of the gods/pyroclasm) is good enough to control the board long enough so I can cast wildfire/destructive force which also creature controls. (even against Master of Waves)
If it's not a creature deck, plan is still to burn. Another reason why stuffy doll is in because wildfire/destructive force doesn't burn to the face (usually the slower option but a win is a win). I was thinking of changing the SB to be able to change the deck to burn.
I'd like to get more testing especially against non-creature decks and stony silence, but I haven't had the time to go to my lgs.
I run 3 shock lands and I might shave that number to 2 or 1 for more basics. I have 2 fetch lands but use than to thin deck out more than mana fixing. rocks help alot ive never had problems getting colors.
Ive had the same results as u. creature decks seems easy. control gets a harder. hand disruption hurts especially turn 1 if they can pull out a mana rock.
i played against 8 whack n seems like a good match up Lightning Helix and Ajani Vengeant gained me alot of life. havent played merfolk or elves yet. there at my lgs just havent played them yet. I feel like it play similar to 8 whack tho.
Im going to be playing Calebd's version of wildfire. I tried the budget goldfish version that was more artifact ramp and I hated it. I might also mess around with UR in the near future. I will post some results here as opposed to starting a new thread.
The more i play it the less im liking the borderpost. lot of artifact removal turns to ld. let me know how that versions go. cant afford new chandra but maybe i could do it with koth instead
Artifact removal is an issue but most decks don't have that much of it and it can be powered through (unless they play Abrupt Decay in the maindeck which is a problem)
i meant koth in a non borderpost version. in my meta tons of artifact hate. shatterstorm, hurks recall, stony silence, and engineer explosive on 3 is one sided Armageddon luckily i can answer stony silence, if i draw the answer. i dont recommend post version unless u know there not alot of those in ur meta. single artifact removal hurts but winnable.
Finally had some time to think and work on an answer to Stony Silence.
I'm trying out a full set of Seal of Primordium in my sideboard. It has come up helpful on a few test runs against artifact hate, but it slows the gameplan by 1 turn. It also needs to drop before the hate comes in, but once its in it just sits there til needed which is nice.
I want to try Aura of Silence since it taxes 2. The double W mana is expensive, but also WR mana rocks are limited Obelisk of NayaBoros Signet. The deck I've been testing against is a prison style deck so Aura of Silence would be extremely helpful since they can exile Seal of Primordium without additional cost before dropping Stony Silence.
I was also thinking of any of the G instants that destroy enchantments and float a green mana to use after stony silence resolves. back to naturenatural statenaturalizenature's claim I'm just not a fan of leaving mana up.
So I've been toying with a list for a few weeks and its been testing really well. Looks like it could fit in this forum though its quite different from most of the lists here. It's Strictly Mono-Red Land D with a ramp into Wildfire at the top end. It looks as if Skred and The decks in this forum had a baby. I've gone 4-1 in a Friendly Leagues with it three times so far. I think it could just need some refining; but I think it has legs.
I wanted to run Mindstone, but with all the colorless sources the Talisman is really important. Could also use Destructive Revelry in the SB. Would love to know what you all think of it; I've been having a blast playing it recently and its pretty awesome to play Boom on one of your 8 Indestructible Lands or Dunes of the Dead and then play Blood Moon to fix your own mana.
Don't the 10x colorless lands backfire sometimes when you can't find a red source ?
The synergy with Boom // Bust is cute but isn't worth the loss in consistency imho.
I'd probably go with Sweltering Suns over Pyroclasm to be able to cycle it when it isn't relevant.
Also you can use Avalanche Riders (or Goblin Ruinblaster) over Shivan Wumpus to make sure you destroy a land.
Wumpus gives opponents a choice so it may not do what you want it to. Goblin Dark-Dwellers is probably the best option as it can "flashback" LD and other spells.
Bomat courier actually surprised me a lot. I was essentially looking for something to replace mindstone since the colorless lands are an issue sometimes. It pulled its weight more than other cards. After playing again with Wumpus I wasnt a huge fan of it. I was specifically trying to find creatures that survived wildfire. But I like the idea of Dark Dwellers.
Hangarback is a cool consideration that I did not think of. I think I'll give it a shot but specifically the courier was there to replace Mindstone for card advantage. Earlier versions of this deck also considered Outpost Siege and Avaricious Dragon both were actually pretty good.
Thanks for the input I appreciate it. The deck could also do without Dunes of the dead. Or just 4 dunes instesd of the 8 other colorless sources. Being able to generate 2/2s after a Wildfire is pretty awesome.
You probably don't want to rely on artifact mana to get out from under Stony Silence! I mean, you can float the mana in response to them casting it, but that's probably not something you want to rely on.
Adding fetches (how many ? 8x ?) and a basic forest ?
Well, in the non-budget version he's splashing white, and has 6 fetches, 6 basics, and 3 shocks.
The weakest card seems to be Destructive Force which can be really akward without a really good ramp start.
I wonder if just playing 4x Molten Rain in the maindeck can be a better idea or maybe 2x Molten Rain and 2x more Sweltering Suns
(or Anger/Pyroclasm/Roast/Mizzium Mortars).
Another option might be Ember Swallower which can get "monstrous" for a mini-Wildfire (that doesn't kill creatures) leaving behind a 7/8 creature.
I'm also not sure if Pithing Needle is good enough in the SB and probably going to try 2x Ratchet Bomb instead to deal with enchantments and big cheap creatures (DS, Goyf, Champion).
4x Metalwork Colossus
Instants
4x Lightning Helix
Sorceries
4x Wildfire
4x Boom // Bust
2x Day of Judgement
Enchantments
2x Oblivion Ring
Artifacts
4x Firewild Borderpost
3x Wildfield Borderpost
1x Veinfire Borderpost
4x Mind Stone
3x Hedron Archive
2x Prismatic Lens
1x Talisman of Impulse
1x Talisman of Indulgence
2x Ajani Vengeant
2x Chandra, Flamecaller
1x Nahiri, the Harbinger
1x Gideon Jura
Lands
3x Sacred Foundry
1x Flooded Strand
1x Windswept Heath
5x Plains
5x Mountain
3x Wear // Tear
2x Crumble to Dust
2x Ember Swallower
1x Shivan Wumpus
1x Path to Exile
1x Rest in Peace
1x Rule of Law
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Orbs of Warding
1x Witchbane Orb
Took this deck to local FMN and went 2-2.
Round 1 8-Whack
Lighting Helix and Wrath kept me alive early until either wildfire or chandra closed the came out easy 2-0
Round 2 Jund
Thoughtsieze turn 1 both games slowed me down enough for gofy to kill me with Pulse used to kill my post. This match up seems horrible. He showed me what he sided in which was engineer explosives and abrupt decay to blow up my artifacts 0-2
Round 3 Nahiri Control
My Actual Opponent never showed so played casual games. We played about 10 games went 5-5 all depends on if he gets counters or not. turn 2 boom even tho it sets me back hurts them worse.
Round 4 Esper Death Shadow
Very close games lost 1-2 but all them came down to topdecking. boom hurts them so much that he had to use opt and visions to look for lands which i could than wildfire away. Delve Creatures kept him in the game.
Changes to sideboard
-1 Rule of Law +1Rest in Peace
no storm players in the meta and only 1 rip sucked against deathshadow. got 1 in game 2 n won because of it n needed it badly in game 3
-1 wear // tear +1 vandalblast
had 3 to deal with stony silence but with 2 orings n nahiri in main i think 2 is fine. blast gives me another answer to etched champion
Also think i wanna add Luminarch Ascensionto help against control.
Any Feedback or suggestions would be appreciated.
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
3 Stuffy Doll
2 Inferno Titan
3 Metalwork Colossus
3 Wildfire
2 Destructive Force
2 Hedron Archive
4 Mind Stone
4 Firewild Borderpost
2 Talisman of Impulse
2 Talisman of Indulgence
4 Veinfire Borderpost
15 Mountain
2 Molten Rain
2 Orbs of Warding
2 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroclasm
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Roast
2 Vandalblast
First post. This is my take on it. It's seen a lot of kitchen play, but I haven't brought it to a FNM yet.
I'm liking Sunbird's Invocation here especially with Metalwork Colossus.
I'm thinking of switching Hedron Archive with Thran DynamoThran Dynamo, but the card draw has saved me more than extra colorless mana.
Do note that Thran Dynamo is not Modern legal. It was printed in Urza's Destiny, and has only had reprints in supplemental sets since (FTV, Commander, Archenemy, Iconic Masters).
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
and more copies of Colossus and Titan over Invocation which is too slow imho.
I think that maxing out on Wildfire before adding copies of Destructive Force is the way to go, getting to 6-mana is usually much easier.
Despite not looking like much Guardian Idol is actually a pretty good mana rock that can slowly beat down the opponent as a 2/2 especially after you wrath away their lands and creatures, I'd take it over the Talismans despite being EtB tapped and not tapping for Red.
Hedron Archive is very good in the deck and I'd suggest playing 3-4x copies.
I agree Sunbird is slow but once out, Colossus is usually free to cast which triggers Sunbird which I usually get a Destructive Force so I get a 10/10 creature + 5 damage to all creatures (sometimes including stuffy doll ) and my opponent is down 5 lands all for 6 mana.
I like Boros Reckoner. I'll give it a try, but it won't survive wildfire or destructive force or anger of the gods.
I tried running a full set of Hedron Archive but I kept drawing it way to early.
but if I keep running into it I'll put an answer in the sideboard.
Pyrite spellbomb is my answer for pro-red (usually enough), but is this deck really worried about pro-red since Metalwork Colossus?
I was going to try Boom//Bust when I read your post this morning. I feel like there's enough board wipes to replace some number of destructive force/wildfire.
Agreed guardian idol coming in tapped is too slow. Having a untapped talisman early game instead of a tapped guardian idol but also what also made me take guardian idol out of the deck was that red mana.
8whack was pretty bad since they put smash to smithereens in. I haven't played a true burn deck, but I'm sure it would also suck to play against. (I haven't played against this deck since I put the Talismans in)
The mill and zombie (discard/controlish) decks I played against weren't to bad, but discarding/not having anything in hand sucks. mind stone and hedron archive helps with card draw but not enough plus its a loss of mana sources. I would like to add the 3rd hedron archive but 4cmc is to much when I'm trying to put down quick manarocks early, to pay for expensive stuff, before they can get enough land to punish me. Running out of cards/actions is why I'm testing Sunbird's Inovacation. I noticed losing a turn because of Sunbird's, but the following turns tend to go explosively in my favor.
I can see how splashing a another color would help, but this deck is hurting for mana + depends on expensive spells + I don't like losing life for dual/fetch/painlands if I'm just going to sacrifice it. I know I don't have an answer for enchantments like stony silence, but one day I will.
Creature anything decks I feel pretty good against. I think the plethora of cheap burn (galvanic blast/lightning bolt/pyrite spellbomb/anger of the gods/pyroclasm) is good enough to control the board long enough so I can cast wildfire/destructive force which also creature controls. (even against Master of Waves)
If it's not a creature deck, plan is still to burn. Another reason why stuffy doll is in because wildfire/destructive force doesn't burn to the face (usually the slower option but a win is a win). I was thinking of changing the SB to be able to change the deck to burn.
I'd like to get more testing especially against non-creature decks and stony silence, but I haven't had the time to go to my lgs.
Ive had the same results as u. creature decks seems easy. control gets a harder. hand disruption hurts especially turn 1 if they can pull out a mana rock.
i played against 8 whack n seems like a good match up Lightning Helix and Ajani Vengeant gained me alot of life. havent played merfolk or elves yet. there at my lgs just havent played them yet. I feel like it play similar to 8 whack tho.
If you can't afford Chandra, Torch of Defiance than Chandra, Flamecaller, Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker and Inferno Titan are good options.
Kuldotha Phoenix doesn't seem too bad with all the artifacts in the deck and Thundermaw Hellkite/Demigod of Revenge/Deus of Calamity can be pretty good too.
Artifact removal is an issue but most decks don't have that much of it and it can be powered through (unless they play Abrupt Decay in the maindeck which is a problem)
I'm trying out a full set of Seal of Primordium in my sideboard. It has come up helpful on a few test runs against artifact hate, but it slows the gameplan by 1 turn. It also needs to drop before the hate comes in, but once its in it just sits there til needed which is nice.
I want to try Aura of Silence since it taxes 2. The double W mana is expensive, but also WR mana rocks are limited Obelisk of Naya Boros Signet. The deck I've been testing against is a prison style deck so Aura of Silence would be extremely helpful since they can exile Seal of Primordium without additional cost before dropping Stony Silence.
I was also thinking of any of the G instants that destroy enchantments and float a green mana to use after stony silence resolves. back to nature natural state naturalize nature's claim I'm just not a fan of leaving mana up.
I wanted to run Mindstone, but with all the colorless sources the Talisman is really important. Could also use Destructive Revelry in the SB. Would love to know what you all think of it; I've been having a blast playing it recently and its pretty awesome to play Boom on one of your 8 Indestructible Lands or Dunes of the Dead and then play Blood Moon to fix your own mana.
3 Bomat Courier
2 Shivan Wumpus
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
Instant/Sorcery
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Boom//Bust
2 Pyroclasm
3 Molten Rain
4 Stone Rain
3 Wildfire
3 Talisman of Impulse
Enchantment
3 Blood Moon
Planeswalker
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Koth of the Hammer
Land
4 Cascading Cataracts
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Dunes of the Dead
13 Mountain
2 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Vandalblast
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sudden Shock
3 Anger of the Gods
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Wouldn't something like Hangarback Walker be better ?
Don't the 10x colorless lands backfire sometimes when you can't find a red source ?
The synergy with Boom // Bust is cute but isn't worth the loss in consistency imho.
I'd probably go with Sweltering Suns over Pyroclasm to be able to cycle it when it isn't relevant.
Also you can use Avalanche Riders (or Goblin Ruinblaster) over Shivan Wumpus to make sure you destroy a land.
Wumpus gives opponents a choice so it may not do what you want it to.
Goblin Dark-Dwellers is probably the best option as it can "flashback" LD and other spells.
Hangarback is a cool consideration that I did not think of. I think I'll give it a shot but specifically the courier was there to replace Mindstone for card advantage. Earlier versions of this deck also considered Outpost Siege and Avaricious Dragon both were actually pretty good.
Thanks for the input I appreciate it. The deck could also do without Dunes of the dead. Or just 4 dunes instesd of the 8 other colorless sources. Being able to generate 2/2s after a Wildfire is pretty awesome.
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