That's really just a win-more option. I've been playing this for awhile, and if you draw through the entire deck after multiple Retracts, the storm count is usually closer to 40 than to 10!
Just wanted to say thanks for all the helpful information from this primer as well as the former one. I stumbled upon this deck when I was testing Sram as a replacement/compliment to kor spiritdancer in my Bogles deck. I'm always eager to try promising, under-the-radar modern decks, so I've been acquiring the pieces and hope to have my decklist figured out shortly.
One thing that I couldn't find an answer to was the reason for running only a single copy of grapeshot? How often are you in situations where your grapeshot is exiled and can't be recycled w/ noxious? What's the next plan of attack should that happen? I appreciate the tips and look forward to piloting the deck myself soon.
Cheers
You will find different approaches. I am going ping pong between "all-in" on the combo and more mid-range like Be_lakor's list and see what works best, as well as keep the meta guessing what I'm up to. My take on "all-in" combo uses Serum Powder to see more opening hands, so it has more redundancy build in: 3 Grapeshots, a Hurkyl's Recall in addition to the playset of Retracts, and goes lean on lands. Even I found room for 2 Bastion Inventor and run some Bone Saw's and Sigil of Distinction to be able to become the beatdown when needed. I also created a fetch package that allows me to run a Sacred Foundry in the sideboard (or main) in case Opal is getting hated on or I want to bring back Goblin Gavaleer/Mass Hysteria.
The idea with this version is to find an opener with a threat and two lands and go off T2, T3 at the latest. This is a high risk / high reward build that is super fun to playtest. There is enough redundancy here that a hand with Serum Powder and two of any critical piece can be safely exiled, but there is no card filter. A good hand that is uninterrupted will kill quickly a very high percentage of the time. Even without an additional creature package, I have some aggressive Cheeri0s to help me beat down on Ad Naus/control/etc as a backup plan.
This version is closer to what I will be playing. It removes a couple Cheeri0s and some of the redundancy to add a couple Bastion Inventors and 3 Serum Visions to improve consistency when the first engine creature dropped eats removal or if I have to keep a hand that missing a key piece. You'll notice in both versions there is a premium on white mana sources and I don't run Sacred Foundry in the main without need of red beyond Grapeshot because not being able to cast a Retract in an opening hand that has one is soul crushing.
There is a lot of room for creativity here and hopefully this will help you start thinking through the balancing options that come into play. Honestly much more important than which list you run is experience and sequencing your plays. For example, I won a game the other night against a friend I knew was playing Counterflux in the sideboard, and I drew through my entire deck and carefully navigated Sram's draw ability so that I had both Grapeshots in hand, Paradise Mantle on an uptapped creature and used Noxious Revival to draw an Opal as my last card draw so that I could cast a second Grapeshot after he Counterfluxed the first one. This is a very cornercase example, but understanding how to use your resources is really important and will make you appreciate cards like Pact of Negation and Sigil of Distinction, which matchups they can help you win, and when you can use them without overcommitting. Sometimes you just have to go for it, of course.
There is a guy in my local meta who can borrow virtually any deck in the meta and be a threat to win the tournament, be it Tron, Taking Turns, Ad Nauseum, Lantern Control, Burn, Affinity, whatever. I let him pilot my list the other night and watching him fumble around in the dark was so painful. I had to talk him through every play for a couple of games before I could even stand to watch him try. Anyway, do not underestimate the learning curve with this style of deck!
Thanks for the thoughtful response; very informational. I'll be sure to keep that in mind as I start piloting the deck.
I'm far from a MTG Finance guru, but can anyone explain why Puresteel is spiking and Retract is falling? Does this mean a ton of Retracts have entered the market, or people already had Retract but not PP, etc. ???
Edit: Or maybe the non-Storm builds are more popular..
@Joban8 - I recommend watching some videos and trying to predict the next play, watch the sequencing closely, etc. Be_lakor could likely suggest the best ones to watch for instructional value.
I have come up with a rule for all of you newbies to this deck! That rule is simple ... you are banned from playing Sram until you have ran the deck with just the paladin.
Additionally, I'm getting increasingly concerned that this deck is becoming mainstream ... the element of surprise and 4 Paladins was all I ever needed!
@Be_Iakor - I don't actually fear much; its nice that more people are playing the deck, I look forward to the mirror matches. May I ask why are you now running Path to Exile over Dispatch? IMO Dispatch seems distinctly better in this deck.
@Kirtash900 - I agree Metallic Rebuke isn't the way ahead; T1 we want to counter things! Unless you sacrifice your draw triggers this isn't possible with Rebuke. IMO Spell Pierce is distinctly better.
In other news - I'm gonna give Contraband Kingpin a try (as a one of) I'm dropping a Fountain for a Godless Shrine and adding in a Cranial Plating to the list (as it will be easier to insta equip).
A bolt proof Lifelinker could be important in the more marginal games and his Scry Trigger should ensure consistency. I'll report back with findings.
I feel the argument is weaker for Path to Exile over Dispatch; If we are saying that on average we can't cast dispatch until T2/3, what are we worried about in your opponents T1-3 that will cost us the Game? IMO very little. I feel you are at a far greater disadvantage playing Path in the early game and giving your opponent an extra land. Broadly speaking; Modern revolves around 2/3 drops and 1 CMC removal/disruption/counter spells. Casting PtE T1-3 gives your opponent the edge. He is able to play his 2/3 drops with one mana open to make you discard, kill your creature or counter your spells.
I'm far from a MTG Finance guru, but can anyone explain why Puresteel is spiking and Retract is falling? Does this mean a ton of Retracts have entered the market, or people already had Retract but not PP, etc. ???
Edit: Or maybe the non-Storm builds are more popular..
Retract is not falling, in fact it will spike any day now. Just look at the supply on TCGPlayer or MKM.
Check out the price history graph on MTG Goldfish. It's been on their list of top losers for the week for a couple days now.
Edit: The TCG Player inventory and price history tells the real story here it seems!
Okay folks, it's time to start talking about the mirror breaker. It seems there will be more Cheeri0s than Burn in my local meta within a month's time. Ideas?
What people have been missing in the discussion of Path to Exile over Dispatch is considering when we should be boarding in the removal spell as well as what targets we're looking to hit with it. As a fast combo deck, we shouldn't be diluting our deck for removal spells unless they're absolutely necessary - I'm not casting Path or Dispatch on a Goyf. Rather, the targets we need to hit are specific hate cards - Eidolon of Rhetoric, Eidolon of the Great Revel, or similar hate creatures. For these, we're most likely going to cast removal immediately before going off, in which case the land is not as relevant.
More importantly, however, is the opportunity cost of playing your equipment before Paladin or Sram hits the board. Yes, the deck plays a lot of them, but you need some in hand to get started. Imagine a world where you had the opportunity to play this card:
Shields to Plowshares - W
Instant
As an additional cost to cast ~, discard three cards.
Exile target creature.
That's the opportunity cost we're talking about here. Sure, you'll get them back off of a Retract, but your chances to chain Retracts gets much lower when the opening burst is much smaller.
Finally, consider the two most noteworthy hate creatures, the Eidolons. Against Great Revel, playing Dispatch will cost you an additional six life through enabling metalcraft over just casting Path. Versus Rhetoric, you'll have to set up three of your turns casting one equipment a turn and then finally Dispatch on their turn. Considering my most-played and most successful deck in Modern has been Company with a side of Kiki-Chord, I can almost guarantee you that over that period of time they've managed to find Sculler/Sin Collector/Spellskite... or just kill you.
So, as the long story condensed, Dispatch is pretty awful in the deck when you consider that we have no need for a random removal spell to hit just any creature, we need efficient removal for very specific creatures. I'm sorry if it came out as a jumbled rant, but I'm getting sick of people suggesting Dispatch just because there are a bunch of artifacts in the deck.
As a more positive note, I'm glad that I got my copies of Paladin/Retract on Sram's spoiler day, as supply is really starting to shrivel up.
Okay folks, it's time to start talking about the mirror breaker. It seems there will be more Cheeri0s than Burn in my local meta within a month's time. Ideas?
If you're really looking for a mirror-breaker, I would potentially consider Ethersworn Canonist, as it locks them into one Retract while it will bounce with your first Retract and no longer interfere. Otherwise, I'd just up your Path count as they're applicable in a wider range of matchups.
Fragmentize should really be in the board here. It takes down chalice, eidolon, and stony silence.
It's true that hits pretty much everything worth hitting, but I think being a sorcery means it's not worth it. All it really gives you over [[Wear / Tear]] is one less mana (and different color) to get artifacts.
I'm far from a MTG Finance guru, but can anyone explain why Puresteel is spiking and Retract is falling? Does this mean a ton of Retracts have entered the market, or people already had Retract but not PP, etc. ???
Edit: Or maybe the non-Storm builds are more popular..
Retract is not falling, in fact it will spike any day now. Just look at the supply on TCGPlayer or MKM.
Check out the price history graph on MTG Goldfish. It's been on their list of top losers for the week for a couple days now.
Edit: The TCG Player inventory and price history tells the real story here it seems!
There's still quite a discrepancy between TCGPlayer's Listed Median and Market Price, so I think it remains to be seen if this is a real spike, or just temporary. That being said, man oh man am I glad that I picked up my play set just a few days ago.
I really like having 2 ornithopter in the deck. Being able to drop this on turn 1 with either a paradise mantle (ensuring you have two mana on turn 2 if no second land in hand), or with Sigarda's aid in preparation for going off turn 2 and hoping if you fizzle you can drop golem-skin gauntlets and at least swing for some damage.
I realise that golem-skin gauntlets aren't 0 cost, but so far haven't really found it stalls the combo and gives an alternative threat.
Obviously there has been a fair bit of discussion about cantrips and cards like repeal. I've opted for it in the main for card draw, pseudo protection (used on either Sram/paladin or obvious threats) and as sort of worse cantrip to draw cards before playing an engine.
Anyone got any thoughts on my sideboard choices?
FYI - my local meta consists of a very wide range of decks (many which are homebrews), but there are a few burn, jund, ad nauseum and Grixis control decks.
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Cheeri0s is the breakfast of championsWRU Everyone loves an angry mobRWG Why so Bloo?RU
I really like having 2 ornithopter in the deck. Being able to drop this on turn 1 with either a paradise mantle (ensuring you have two mana on turn 2 if no second land in hand), or with Sigarda's aid in preparation for going off turn 2 and hoping if you fizzle you can drop golem-skin gauntlets and at least swing for some damage.
I realise that golem-skin gauntlets aren't 0 cost, but so far haven't really found it stalls the combo and gives an alternative threat.
Obviously there has been a fair bit of discussion about cantrips and cards like repeal. I've opted for it in the main for card draw, pseudo protection (used on either Sram/paladin or obvious threats) and as sort of worse cantrip to draw cards before playing an engine.
Anyone got any thoughts on my sideboard choices?
FYI - my local meta consists of a very wide range of decks (many which are homebrews), but there are a few burn, jund, ad nauseum and Grixis control decks.
On the one hand, I don't hate Gauntlets. They do cantrip and they provide an alternate path to victory. I also won a decent number of games in my Burn tests through plain beatdown, and Gauntlets would have increased that number.
On the other hand, I really don't like the number of dead slots in this kind of list. 2 Aid, 1 Hysteria, and 2 Ornithopter comprise 5 slots in the deck that don't really do anything unless we already have an engine or are already going off. They aren't quite win-more but they are very close. I can totally see the argument for some number of protection spells in the main. But this can't be at the expense of dig spells. Even "virtual" dig like Serum Powder and Revival would be better than no dig at all. This observation comes from both extensive cheeri0s testing and experience, as well as general experience with other combo decks across all formats including Modern. Dig is a really critical element of combo decks. We need to have it.
Now, I do think the jury is still out on the optimal dig spells. That's an argument we can have. But we need some kind of dig in the first place.
Sideboard looks good. I'm not a fan of Silence that much and would prefer more action like an additional Grid or better: Geist of Saint Traft. But thats all.
Agree on the action piece. I'm actually not running Leyline anymore and just put threats in those slots. Against discard decks, extra threats fulfill a similar purpose to Leyline (insulating us from their spot discard) while also being more proactive and MUCH better draws after T1. I'm also nervous about mulligan-dependent answers like Leyline in a deck that already mulligans more than most.
4 Artifact:
4 Mox Opal
4 Instant:
4 Retract
1 Sorcery:
1 Grapeshot
1 Enchantment:
1 Sigarda's Aid Playing this on turn 1 followed by a turn 2 Palaladin is Strong. However, drawing multiple of this sucks.
18 Lands:
Thanks for the thoughtful response; very informational. I'll be sure to keep that in mind as I start piloting the deck.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Edit: Or maybe the non-Storm builds are more popular..
Additionally, I'm getting increasingly concerned that this deck is becoming mainstream ... the element of surprise and 4 Paladins was all I ever needed!
@Kirtash900 - I agree Metallic Rebuke isn't the way ahead; T1 we want to counter things! Unless you sacrifice your draw triggers this isn't possible with Rebuke. IMO Spell Pierce is distinctly better.
In other news - I'm gonna give Contraband Kingpin a try (as a one of) I'm dropping a Fountain for a Godless Shrine and adding in a Cranial Plating to the list (as it will be easier to insta equip).
A bolt proof Lifelinker could be important in the more marginal games and his Scry Trigger should ensure consistency. I'll report back with findings.
Thoughts?
Edit: The TCG Player inventory and price history tells the real story here it seems!
More importantly, however, is the opportunity cost of playing your equipment before Paladin or Sram hits the board. Yes, the deck plays a lot of them, but you need some in hand to get started. Imagine a world where you had the opportunity to play this card:
Shields to Plowshares - W
Instant
As an additional cost to cast ~, discard three cards.
Exile target creature.
That's the opportunity cost we're talking about here. Sure, you'll get them back off of a Retract, but your chances to chain Retracts gets much lower when the opening burst is much smaller.
Finally, consider the two most noteworthy hate creatures, the Eidolons. Against Great Revel, playing Dispatch will cost you an additional six life through enabling metalcraft over just casting Path. Versus Rhetoric, you'll have to set up three of your turns casting one equipment a turn and then finally Dispatch on their turn. Considering my most-played and most successful deck in Modern has been Company with a side of Kiki-Chord, I can almost guarantee you that over that period of time they've managed to find Sculler/Sin Collector/Spellskite... or just kill you.
So, as the long story condensed, Dispatch is pretty awful in the deck when you consider that we have no need for a random removal spell to hit just any creature, we need efficient removal for very specific creatures. I'm sorry if it came out as a jumbled rant, but I'm getting sick of people suggesting Dispatch just because there are a bunch of artifacts in the deck.
As a more positive note, I'm glad that I got my copies of Paladin/Retract on Sram's spoiler day, as supply is really starting to shrivel up.
EDIT:
If you're really looking for a mirror-breaker, I would potentially consider Ethersworn Canonist, as it locks them into one Retract while it will bounce with your first Retract and no longer interfere. Otherwise, I'd just up your Path count as they're applicable in a wider range of matchups.
It's true that hits pretty much everything worth hitting, but I think being a sorcery means it's not worth it. All it really gives you over [[Wear / Tear]] is one less mana (and different color) to get artifacts.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
2 ornithopter
4 Puresteel paladin
4 Sram, senior edificer
Cheeri0s-ish
4 Accorder's shield
4 Cathar's shield
2 bone saw
4 paradise mantle
4 Spidersilk net
4 Mox opal
2 golem-skin gauntlets
2 Sigarda's aid
1 Mass hysteria
Spells
3 Repeal
4 Retract
1 grapeshot
Land
2 plains
2 flooded strand
4 windswept Heath
2 sacred foundry
4 Hallowed fountain
4 leyline of sanctity
3 silence
2 wear // tear
1 Ghirapur aether grid
1 Monastery mentor
3 path to exile
1 basilisk collar
I really like having 2 ornithopter in the deck. Being able to drop this on turn 1 with either a paradise mantle (ensuring you have two mana on turn 2 if no second land in hand), or with Sigarda's aid in preparation for going off turn 2 and hoping if you fizzle you can drop golem-skin gauntlets and at least swing for some damage.
I realise that golem-skin gauntlets aren't 0 cost, but so far haven't really found it stalls the combo and gives an alternative threat.
Obviously there has been a fair bit of discussion about cantrips and cards like repeal. I've opted for it in the main for card draw, pseudo protection (used on either Sram/paladin or obvious threats) and as sort of worse cantrip to draw cards before playing an engine.
Anyone got any thoughts on my sideboard choices?
FYI - my local meta consists of a very wide range of decks (many which are homebrews), but there are a few burn, jund, ad nauseum and Grixis control decks.
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
On the one hand, I don't hate Gauntlets. They do cantrip and they provide an alternate path to victory. I also won a decent number of games in my Burn tests through plain beatdown, and Gauntlets would have increased that number.
On the other hand, I really don't like the number of dead slots in this kind of list. 2 Aid, 1 Hysteria, and 2 Ornithopter comprise 5 slots in the deck that don't really do anything unless we already have an engine or are already going off. They aren't quite win-more but they are very close. I can totally see the argument for some number of protection spells in the main. But this can't be at the expense of dig spells. Even "virtual" dig like Serum Powder and Revival would be better than no dig at all. This observation comes from both extensive cheeri0s testing and experience, as well as general experience with other combo decks across all formats including Modern. Dig is a really critical element of combo decks. We need to have it.
Now, I do think the jury is still out on the optimal dig spells. That's an argument we can have. But we need some kind of dig in the first place.
Agree on the action piece. I'm actually not running Leyline anymore and just put threats in those slots. Against discard decks, extra threats fulfill a similar purpose to Leyline (insulating us from their spot discard) while also being more proactive and MUCH better draws after T1. I'm also nervous about mulligan-dependent answers like Leyline in a deck that already mulligans more than most.
Its just to bad my deck for fnm has 4 sb leyline... oh well.
This is my take on the Puresteel Paladin Storm Combo
12 Creatures:
20 Equipments:
4 Artifact:
4 Mox Opal
4 Instant:
4 Retract
1 Sorcery:
1 Grapeshot
1 Enchantment:
1 Sigarda's Aid Playing this on turn 1 followed by a turn 2 Palaladin is Strong. However, drawing multiple of this sucks.
18 Lands:
15 Sideboard:
4 Kor Firewalker - For Burn
4 Disenchant - Our strategy revolves around 0 CMC artifacts, a Chalice of the void for 0 is a nightmare
4 Path to Exile - Use this against Eidolon of Great Revel, or Eideolon of Rhetoric, or Infect Decks
1 Dispel - For protection
1 Apostle's Blessing - A cool card against mid range decks
1 Spell Pierce - A singleton countermagic!