I'm currently trying to have a better match-up against infect so more dismembers in the sideboard seems better than my Noxious Gearhulk plan as I found he is less useful than I had hoped.
No Treasure Mage here ? its works well without a tutor for big fatty ?
I`m interested in building this deck and try it out in the near future. right now i`m playing two combo decks (Time Warp and Titan Bloom ) and i want to play a more creature and combat based deck, but not totally aggro.
I have only two concerns about this deck:
1. How does this deck interact with the fastest deck in the format (Turn 3 kills) ... counter and a little more discard like inquisition of kozilek and maybe chalice of the void 1-2x maindeck. It seems very strong on x=1 in here. the only 1 cmc card would be serum visions...
2. How do we filter into one of the 3 Heartless Summoning this one is hard to fix, muddle the mixtureis the only thing which comes to my mind but it might be to slow. On the other hand it could also counter artefact hate post board
these are the ideas i have in mind right now, but i could be totally wrong. I have not tested anything so please keep this in mind
Welcome Cuson! It's awesome to hear you are interested in the deck. I think Heartless Architect is a lot of fun "fair" deck for the combo-oriented players out there. Hopefully I can address your concerns to your satisfaction.
Interacting with modern's turn 3 kills is an appropriate concern. We have been able to take care of this in a few different ways. Infect is actually a fairly good matchup for us and something that is very easy to tune for if you see a lot of it. 3-4 maindecked Spellskites are extremely effective against them as well as against the Boggles and suicide aggro decks you may see out and about. Additionally we also have been playing around with various numbers of Dismembers, Slaughter Pacts, and otherkillspells which take out threats at instant speed. These alongside applying our own pressure with Myr Superion[/s]s and Lodestone Golems help to make the matchup mostly favorable. Sideboarded Chalice of the Void cast at 1 is also very good here as you pointed out.
Burn is another beast. In the case of burn, we still have Spellskite to take some damage for us and it, Myr Superion, and friends can all stand in the way of Goblin Guides and Monastery Swiftspear while we apply our own pressure. Filigree Familiar and Elixir of Immortality do a great job of stalling the game while we beat down with our larger threats.
I have tried a more counter and discard oriented version of the deck and the problems I found were that you only ever wanted to play an Inquisition of Kozilek or a Thoughtseize turn 1, otherwise they got in the way of your turns 2 and 3 which are, without a doubt, our most important turns. Likewise, holding up mana for Remands and Mana Leaks is extremely awkward because they prevent us from making the early explosive plays we need to win most games. Chalice of the Void has proved to be very good in testing. It works great against a number of decks but mostly in dealing with 1 cmc removal spells. As mentioned above, it hits infect very hard, but it doesn’t do nearly as much against burn. It hits most of their creatures, but those have normally been played before we can drop a Chalice and we also can deal with those threats fairly well with our own creatures. But it unfortunately only hits Lightning Bolt and Lava Spike while the rest of their spells (especially Destructive Revelry) can be cast as normal and we have missed an opportunity to play something more impactful. So I choose to play 1 Chalice of the Void in my sideboard in my Trinket Mage toolbox but I could see an argument for putting that up to 2 or so.
I think that if you play around with the deck a little you may see that we don’t actually need Heartless Summoning and instead it just gives us some of our most explosive plays. Unlike a lot of combo decks that rely on filtering or tutoring for a specific win condition, Heartless Architect plays a full engine package consisting of some number of Heartless Summoning, Grand Architect, Etherium Sculptor, and Chief Engineer. I personally play 12 total engine pieces which all can do well in enabling the deck on their own and most do great things when their effects are added on to each other. So we are not relying on finding one of our 3 heartlesses but instead relying on drawing one or more similar effects from a pool that makes up about 1/5 of the main deck.
I hope this answers a few of your initial questions and I look forward to hearing how your testing goes.
Impressions:
1) this build can make an aggro-control playstyle, i like it, can agrresive and defense, but is like an all-in deck.
But i missed some type of removes (Spine of ish Sah) even big, was so utility before) or insta like Path to Exile
Missed Platinum Angel Against a Kitchen Finks deck.
2) Master Transmuter rly make nice tricks here. Treasure Mage show me more efficient (in my build) then Glint-Nest (turn 4 master greveas colossus)
3) Freezing .. missed removes
i guess, we can consider the meta of the region we play .. i dont have infects to playtest against here by bow.
o just try 21 lands, and for now, this works well. Golem do not make muck effective play, losting by canonist. Maybe a Path to exile make best work to remove thread ? confused
He is a very strong card and honestly I have debated on running him with the Myr regularly.
But besides that:
WE GOT A NEW TEZZY
+1 Create an artifact with T: sacrifice for 1 of any color of mana
-2 Target creature gets +x/-x until end of turn where x is number of artifacts you control
-7 you get an emblem with at beginning of combat target artifact becomes 5/5 creature
He is a very strong card and honestly I have debated on running him with the Myr regularly.
But besides that:
WE GOT A NEW TEZZY
+1 Create an artifact with T: sacrifice for 1 of any color of mana
-2 Target creature gets +x/-x until end of turn where x is number of artifacts you control
-7 you get an emblem with at beginning of combat target artifact becomes 5/5 creature
personaly i dont like this new tezz for ur build .. if you like, show me points pls ? i like more filter then one extra mana in a turn
i think in a potencial Havengul Lich and a Myr Retriever. Dont know in pratice, but it can buckup important things was countered, destroyed.
Other update i do, was trade Glist_nest for Serum visions, and with heratpain, i dont missed de crane
maybe, wiht the lich crane or even a Mulldrift can maximize more your effects
I don't foresee us running the tezzy as of now because he doesn't do enough but I wanted to share because a new tezzy is always worth discussion. I do feel he is too slwo to fit into our decks but I still wish the Tezzeret, Master of Metal was 4 or 5 mana because we could actually use that but alas.
On Havengul: I find he could be worth running but you'd need to focus your deck around him a bit more than most shells can support atm.
I personally dislike the demon here. While the flying beater is great he is a lot of black mana which we can't always get in my and Variousboots builds. I am trying Padeem, Consul of Innovation this week as a 2 of for a bit of card advantage as we only lose the advantage to Tron and they don't get the advantage. Plus it gives us more resilience against targeted removal.
So I plan to try Padeem as a 2 or 3 of. Im not 100% sure yet but i plan to report on him/her(?) after my thursday games.
These cards give you a lot of fun ETB triggers but also come down for cheap and with havengul give you resilience and a control aspect that I feel could be really neat.
I am trying Padeem, Consul of Innovation this week as a 2 of for a bit of card advantage as we only lose the advantage to Tron and they don't get the advantage. Plus it gives us more resilience against targeted removal.
Do you belive i was thinking in Padeem (in my other thread about master i talk about her) but her can make skite useless, till it add hexproof right?
Or you move skite from MB ?
I`ll remake my manabase and seriously try Massacre Wurm, lich .. and like your idea anda will test myr or cut fox maybe make a paper to test the demon, lets see
Hello @Sting, nice too see more people to discuss ideias for heartless (or variations), so if your RB version, is the third i see in here. i`n using a esper variation with Master Transmuter with ETB creatures
Massacre Wurm is really hard because of the BBB so i would run only 1 sb if really necessary.
Agree the BBB maybe a problem, maybe, because this i`ll remake my mana base add lands like Isolated Chapel, godless shrine to adjust the demand. Remember this is a primary test, because with phyrexian metamorph + Master Transmuter we can do a relly MASSACRE (new pun). here, have much bants, companys etc.
Bloodgift Demon is a good card to me as a psuedo phyrexian arena on wings.
Sometimes lowering the stats to 4/3 makes him really easy to kill (lightning bolt) but if it survives can become really good
the demon ill test to, because i have the same thought then you. (psuedo phyrexian arena).
Another idea, if heartless summoning is really useful why run only 3?
With 4 heartless summoning we have something like 40% of find it in our opening hand +4% for each card drawn or scry.
I know, multiple heartless summoning are useless but we can scry down those extra copies or discard them to liliana of the veil or use them as fodder for other cards (like Thirst for Knowledge for ex.)
idk, but talking about my build, 3 heartless is not low probability to draw in open hand and draw (Serum Visions is there for us) liliana of the veil it's already gone a possibility for me, but i dont say here, but dont know, ur Artifact base is better then other and Tezz filter is nice for us. maybe talk bull***** but..
the list idea:
Take control of board, dont lose ur enchant, deal with big threads (Perilous myr make a nice "combo" with tragic, make the -13 easy), and like so much how lich make plays
Superion can take control of aggros nice block on turn 2
Torrential Gearhulk + Master Transmuter can double the mount of controls
This is the first try, ideas of thing can improve ? more counter or more removals, in in doubt
EDIT:
looking for my old cards, i find something nice, maybe Scuttling Doom Engine + Disciple of Bolas
can do a double damage, gain life much draw, with lich can return
Okay so now that the holidays are done I have more time to post about updates on this. I have very little to report. I played the deck once in a tourney with Variousboots while he was back in town and he did a lot better than I did as I faced: G/W Tron and Naya Ally Aggro.
G/W Tron is literally the worst matchup I've faced in forever. It makes me want to run surgical extraction sideboard to mess with the deck on top of upping ghost Quarters to a full 4 copies. However I am kinda ready to just chalk that one up to a 85% loss for us.
In other news Aether Revolt is fully spoiled and there are a few cards that art intresting and may be worth conisderation and testoing.
Fatal Push: Black finally got removal that is close to Path to exile in power. While its still much less powerful than Path it give us a much easier removal for goyf and many other decks. While it wont completely replace Dismember or Slaughter Pact it is a nice addition to the 2 and gives us a better reach of removal to adjust our decks with.
Yahenni's Expertise: HOLY BOARDWIPE THAT LANDS A MYR SUPERION! That is literally all that is needed to be said. It give us excellent removal for a wrath with decks that go wide such as Elves and still allows us to maximize the value we can crank out. I plan to test 2 int he sideboard.
Walking Ballista: So this guy is the onyl card I plan to test right off the bat. It seems to be the most efficient and effective scalable beater we have. The ability to dodge removal by pinging down creature or hitting our opponent in the face is huge! this gives us more reach against Grixis Delver which is nice but also against infect, affinity, Junk's Spirits ect. I plan to main deck 3 atleast to start off.
Merchant's Dockhand: Our lovely 1 drop card advantage engine. While it may be slow and require more artifacts, it can give us a nice amount of draw which our deck lacks. The fact that we can tutor this up with Trinket mage is huge. I plan to test this as I go forward.
While there are aother cards to consider for this set, Im doing this quickly so there is that.
Going on from here on out, I would prefer we try to stay more on-topic of the main decklist. While other decklists are appreciated to give a new flair I'd prefer we stay more on topic of the main list.
Going on from here on out, I would prefer we try to stay more on-topic of the main decklist. While other decklists are appreciated to give a new flair I'd prefer we stay more on topic of the main list.
is this the reason dont have some response about some extra builds ? in so curious and ai like to try more and more cards, but ok, if it is for me not to talk alone, go on.
----
i Finally create "courage" and remove white, move on the Lodestone Golem to MB, the primary tax works best then i expected, not gonna lie (when i got 3 on game was nice), but tax the tezz too, was boring.
--
Some post above, when you talk about padeem, a was curios, becase the worst interaction with skite and if you moved it to SB? whats happened with the test ?
--
About new cards:
Fatal Push OMG no words Merchant's Dockhand you really guess this can best advantage ? if we tap all many artifact, and its all ur creatures, we dont have attack / block maybe ? in this case i like Reverse Engineer and maybe consider Tezzeret the Seeker (reverser the tap, can tutor superior, bridge, shackles or some keys). Walking Ballista can be a nice removal little boring creatures
i think about Scrap Trawler too, can rescue something ... think about this turn 3 kill Scrap Trawler + Heartless Summoning and Perilous Myr funny.
and talk about tezz, in a second look, the new tezz have a nice removal too.
--
if interest, this is my list for now (if want to help, appreciate it
i guess Serum or maybe a Sleight of Hand is very important to find pieces early, but dont know where, or i need to lost de lich combo.
Glad if i`n not to talk alone again my ideas (if it is not good enough, you can say me to change the focus)
seeya
EDIT:
Have you consider Pithing Needle as side? is nice againt all matchs:
infetc: Blinkmoth Nexus, Pendelhaven
Tron: Karn, Ugin, oblivion
Burn: Some feths
Viscera Seer and much mor
I hope everyone had a great holiday season. I know mine was very relaxing and even involved a 3-1 FNM at a local game shop back in my home state. Anywho, now it’s back to work and with all of these posts I missed and Aether Revolt spoiled and Wizards surprise ban announcement today I’ll try to write out all of my thoughts over the next few days.
@Sting
Welcome! It’s always nice to hear from more fans of our enchantment! I too miss the days of Heartless Summoning and Priest of Urabrask. As Ulka mentioned above, we used to run them in Standard combo deck where we made infinite mana Havengul Lich and then killed the opponent with Perilous Myr triggers or a big Devil’s Play. It was a janky but powerful combo kill with a ton synergy and soo much fun to play.
With 4 heartless summoning we have something like 40% of find it in our opening hand +4% for each card drawn or scry.
I know, multiple heartless summoning are useless but we can scry down those extra copies or discard them to liliana of the veil or use them as fodder for other cards (like Thirst for Knowledge for ex.)
Heartless Summoning does a great job alongside colorless creatures and there is a thread dedicated to that interaction here. I don’t think the Eldrazi have a place in the these HeartlessArchitect builds that we are focusing on because the rest of ourengines don’t help at all in that game plan.
Yes, Darkslick Shores is a fantastic card and it works so well in guaranteeing both of our colors during those extremely vital first 3 turns. The reason why it got cut over time is two-fold. The first reason was Vedalken Shackles. Although we don’t play it nearly as much anymore (which will probably change if the format slows down again) we wanted to play as few non-islands as possible. The second and still very applicable reason is that we never want our lands to come into play tapped. Drawing a fourth land and having that be a fastland like Darkslick can lose you a lot of games and we don’t need to worry about that when we have access to so many fetches and other duals.
I went over this earlier on in my response to Cuson when they asked about tutoring for Heartless Summoning, but I’ll attach it here to save myself a little typing and save others some searching.
I think that if you play around with the deck a little you may see that we don’t actually need Heartless Summoning and instead it just gives us some of our most explosive plays. Unlike a lot of combo decks that rely on filtering or tutoring for a specific win condition, Heartless Architect plays a full engine package consisting of some number of Heartless Summoning, Grand Architect, Etherium Sculptor, and Chief Engineer. I personally play 12 total engine pieces which all can do well in enabling the deck on their own and most do great things when their effects are added on to each other. So we are not relying on finding one of our 3 heartlesses but instead relying on drawing one or more similar effects from a pool that makes up about 1/5 of the main deck.
have some FNM ... maybe i any games, we can see something interesting. i just see only 1 os those, and i see a Massacre Wurm ... massacring (pun).
Perilous Myr can help with infect maybe ?
Massacre Wurm is a sweet card but I think it is too slow for this list (it is only good if we have Heartless Summoning) and it wipes our board too. In just a couple weeks we should be looking instead at Yahenni’s Expertise to wipe the board and drop a threat after. If you are still interested in a big Massacre Wurm type ability, check out Contagion Engine it’s actually pretty easy for us to get online especially if you are playing a controlish build and works great with Master Transmuter if you are still on that plan.
Perilous Myr seems to have shown up a lot on here lately. I am pretty much always thinking about playing two of them in my list but I usually don’t end up pulling the trigger on that. In the next couple weeks I’ll be thinking a lot about this vs Walking Ballista in our list. A lot of cool ideas with that one.
the list idea:
Take control of board, dont lose ur enchant, deal with big threads (Perilous myr make a nice "combo" with tragic, make the -13 easy), and like so much how lich make plays
Superion can take control of aggros nice block on turn 2
Torrential Gearhulk + Master Transmuter can double the mount of controls
This is the first try, ideas of thing can improve ? more counter or more removals, in in doubt
I’d love to hear how the control build test has been going. About a year ago I tried out a control build that played Lilianna of the Veil, Mana Leak, some discard spells, and more kill spells. It worked decently well and I won a lot of matches with it but it was really awkward. The deck felt pulled in too many directions. I found that I was basically time walking myself by trying to hold up mana for counter spells instead of playing things like Heartless Summoning or other engine pieces. So if you find a good way to do it, I’m all ears.
Also, this is probably obvious because I’m responding to an older post, but Fatal Push is definitely an upgraded Tragic Slip (except against Tron, but that’s a whole different story)
i Finally create "courage" and remove white, move on the Lodestone Golem to MB, the primary tax works best then i expected, not gonna lie (when i got 3 on game was nice), but tax the tezz too, was boring.
I’m glad you took the leap. It’s a great feeling to see other people fall in love with Lodeston Golem the way I did. Like everyone else, I was skeptical at first but since I took the plunge, it has won me more games than any other card.
Don’t worry about getting cards like Tezzeret stuck in your hand. As long as you have multiple golems out you should be winning the game. And the minute they spend all of their resources removing your creatures, you get to slam a planeswalker down in their face and take over the game again.
Some post above, when you talk about padeem, a was curios, becase the worst interaction with skite and if you moved it to SB? whats happened with the test ?
I haven’t tried Padeem, Consul of Innovation yet but I thought a lot about it and I would much rather test Kira, Great Glass-Spinner instead. It works much much better alongside Spellskite and it comes down a turn earlier, and it protects itself. That being said, I haven’t tested Kira yet either.
Have you consider Pithing Needle as side? is nice againt all matchs:
infetc: Blinkmoth Nexus, Pendelhaven
Tron: Karn, Ugin, oblivion
Burn: Some feths
Viscera Seer and much mor
I think you’ll find if you look at the sideboards of the decklists Ulka and I have posted that we always play at least 1 Pithing Needle in our sideboards alongside Trinket Mage
Going on from here on out, I would prefer we try to stay more on-topic of the main decklist. While other decklists are appreciated to give a new flair I'd prefer we stay more on topic of the main list.
is this the reason dont have some response about some extra builds ? in so curious and ai like to try more and more cards, but ok, if it is for me not to talk alone, go on.
I can’t speak for Ulka on this, but I believe he is getting at is the question of what discussion should be in this thread and what could be considered ‘off topic’ and would be better suited in another place.
My personal opinion on this matter is that, in this thread, we are working on a fairly specific deck that we have outlined in the primer. That being a deck using the redundancy of the cost reducing effects of Grand Architect and Heartless Summoning and their analogs to produce a board state which overwhelms the opponent with powerful artifacts.
Now, there are a lot of creative deck ideas that use either Heartless Summoning or Grand Architect as they are very fun and powerful cards to brew with but I would consider almost all of those ideas to be different decks and there more than likely already exists a thread that they would fit into and in those cases I will try to politely refer those suggestions to the appropriate place. An example of this is the Eldrazi thread that I directed Sting to in my comment above.
Ultimately everyone’s opinions on what lists and discussions belong in this thread will always be subjective and ignoring people’s suggestions/criticisms/ideas solely because they don’t fit our vision for the deck is foolish and unfair. So in general, when anyone does suggest new cards/decklists I strongly suggest that they include a reason why that card or, for example their alternate control build, could be an improvement over the previous choices that others have made and is worth discussing and/or testing. Including a brief explanation of your thought process helps everyone to see that your post is a contribution to the longer narrative rather than just a new brew that could be cool.
Going on from here on out, I would prefer we try to stay more on-topic of the main decklist. While other decklists are appreciated to give a new flair I'd prefer we stay more on topic of the main list.
is this the reason dont have some response about some extra builds ? in so curious and ai like to try more and more cards, but ok, if it is for me not to talk alone, go on.
----
i Finally create "courage" and remove white, move on the Lodestone Golem to MB, the primary tax works best then i expected, not gonna lie (when i got 3 on game was nice), but tax the tezz too, was boring.
----
Glad if i`n not to talk alone again my ideas (if it is not good enough, you can say me to change the focus)
----
is this the reason dont have some response about some extra builds ? in so curious and ai like to try more and more cards, but ok, if it is for me not to talk alone, go on.
I can’t speak for Ulka on this, but I believe he is getting at is the question of what discussion should be in this thread and what could be considered ‘off topic’ and would be better suited in another place.
My personal opinion on this matter is that, in this thread, we are working on a fairly specific deck that we have outlined in the primer. That being a deck using the redundancy of the cost reducing effects of Grand Architect and Heartless Summoning and their analogs to produce a board state which overwhelms the opponent with powerful artifacts.
Now, there are a lot of creative deck ideas that use either Heartless Summoning or Grand Architect as they are very fun and powerful cards to brew with but I would consider almost all of those ideas to be different decks and there more than likely already exists a thread that they would fit into and in those cases I will try to politely refer those suggestions to the appropriate place. An example of this is the Eldrazi thread that I directed Sting to in my comment above.
Ultimately everyone’s opinions on what lists and discussions belong in this thread will always be subjective and ignoring people’s suggestions/criticisms/ideas solely because they don’t fit our vision for the deck is foolish and unfair. So in general, when anyone does suggest new cards/decklists I strongly suggest that they include a reason why that card or, for example their alternate control build, could be an improvement over the previous choices that others have made and is worth discussing and/or testing. Including a brief explanation of your thought process helps everyone to see that your post is a contribution to the longer narrative rather than just a new brew that could be cool.[/quote]
FIrst off,
Im's sorry. When I was typing it out, it was mean to be a bit more pleasantly worded and such but I was busy so it came out kinda harsh so I appologize. I was more meaning the other builds are great and I love discussing them but just wanted to remind you and myself that the main purpose of the thread to is to focus on the discussion on the namesake cards and that should be the primary focus.
While Variousboots and I have one build we feel is very solid and you have yours I feel the individual difference are worth discussing but I don't want the thread to get too far off topic as I am working towards making this a primer and to follow the fourms rules on staying ontopic is something I'd like to stay closer to becasue I feel like we were veering a bit but it might have just been me.
As Variousboots Mentioned, there are other threads for other focuses of the deck list as we took a differing position from the Grand Architect thread. While we have overlap they focus on more monoblue lists that are less midrangy but rather more extended aggro where as we are a strict Midrange deck. So I don't mind a bit of back and forth on new ideas but I want to make sure we stay more ontopic which is something that all of us, including myself need to be reminded of
I meant no offense in my comments and I appologize if anyone got offended.
Ulka
@Sting, Welcome I hope we can intruge you into the decklist. I agree wholeheartedly with all that Various Mentioned above as we had a chance to talk face to face while he was in town about the things you mentioned. i would be really intrested if you ended up buidling a Grixis verion of this or something along those lines as I think it could give some insight.
On the Perilous Myr topic, I love this little guy. I honeslty am known to cram 1 or 2 into my lists as they are free shocks basically which is always fun. However I find with him you need to run Havengul Lich as he is best when you can repeat the shocks across the board. I was thikning about htis today and I think Various is right about the Bastilla competeing for the sdmae spot and honestly I thing with both I need to consider running them again espically with how this banned list update ended up.
On to the banned list topic:
With Golgari Grave Troll and Gitaxian Probe bewing banned the format is about to slow down which is soemthign at first I was exicted about then I realized this means tron is back... our worst match up is back. yay?
Im so happy, now i have someone to discuss the deck again, i was almost giving up by the time past, but dont find no one place with new information for actual days.
ill make a long post, during the day (when i post it will not even seem during half day hahah), and i hope (i`m sorry for this) response about old question i have doubt ok ?!
first of all:
Ultimately everyone’s opinions on what lists and discussions belong in this thread will always be subjective and ignoring people’s suggestions/criticisms/ideas solely because they don’t fit our vision for the deck is foolish and unfair. So in general, when anyone does suggest new cards/decklists I strongly suggest that they include a reason why that card or, for example their alternate control build, could be an improvement over the previous choices that others have made and is worth discussing and/or testing. Including a brief explanation of your thought process helps everyone to see that your post is a contribution to the longer narrative rather than just a new brew that could be cool.
i`m sorry if appears it, but i have consider Various and Ulka list for sure to base my, because i dont fell consistence in some aspect i cant recognize, i`n relative new player, and had never invest in a deck, and i want lost my fear and start to play FNM after make it consistence.
the cards i mention before is only about quality to put all together and think (i like to create and not just copy a list), despite you`re eperiente, neverknow if missed some point any time hehe
and i love some combos.
lets start:
@Ulka
When you post your list i observe you have no Treasure Mage as tutor and asked its worked well without it? for a posssible turn 3 Wurmcoil?
@VariousBoots
Massacre Wurm is a sweet card but I think it is too slow for this list (it is only good if we have Heartless Summoning) and it wipes our board too. In just a couple weeks we should be looking instead at Yahenni’s Expertise to wipe the board and drop a threat after. If you are still interested in a big Massacre Wurm type ability, check out Contagion Engine it’s actually pretty easy for us to get online especially if you are playing a controlish build and works great with Master Transmuter if you are still on that plan.
Perilous Myr seems to have shown up a lot on here lately. I am pretty much always thinking about playing two of them in my list but I usually don’t end up pulling the trigger on that. In the next couple weeks I’ll be thinking a lot about this vs Walking Ballista in our list. A lot of cool ideas with that one.
I do some tests with the wurm, and i like and i dislike (in any of firts game, i take care about 6 tokens elemental from Merfolk deck) of course Ensnaring Bridge do all the work here, 1 attack and i dead. Ensnaring Bridge is a star all game he can be droped, seriously. Walking Ballista looks promising.
But after this, dont have chance to use again and, blah, i just want more tutorable cards, i have a Contagion Engine and after you say this, ill back to deck. Master Transmuter is never out my plan, i just love her hahah big tricks with it. This is the first thing i missed was removal, and i consider a combination of Spine of ish Sah and Phyrexia's core to save some Master Tap. I consider Duplicant in my build for exile with master can maximize the potential.
I’d love to hear how the control build test has been going. About a year ago I tried out a control build that played Lilianna of the Veil, Mana Leak, some discard spells, and more kill spells. It worked decently well and I won a lot of matches with it but it was really awkward. The deck felt pulled in too many directions. I found that I was basically time walking myself by trying to hold up mana for counter spells instead of playing things like Heartless Summoning or other engine pieces. So if you find a good way to do it, I’m all ears.
Also, this is probably obvious because I’m responding to an older post, but Fatal Push is definitely an upgraded Tragic Slip (except against Tron, but that’s a whole different story)
I play this control list a weekend, and i felt like you, really awkward, like what i do now try to accel my game or counter omg, i guess it 2 so different playstyle, maybe hard to walk together. My primary ideia wiht it was play with Shimmer Myr and if the opponent dont do worrisome spells, just toss ur artifacts. And the power of Torrential Gearhulk is too funny, but the build not looks consistence.
I’m glad you took the leap. It’s a great feeling to see other people fall in love with Lodeston Golem the way I did. Like everyone else, I was skeptical at first but since I took the plunge, it has won me more games than any other card.
Don’t worry about getting cards like Tezzeret stuck in your hand. As long as you have multiple golems out you should be winning the game. And the minute they spend all of their resources removing your creatures, you get to slam a planeswalker down in their face and take over the game again.
i always like Lodeston Golem, when i tyr a build whit Kuldhota Forgemaster i used, but 2 copies only, and felt the power with 2 hahah but Ethersown Canonist always make great job, especially with skite, but i open my worlds for know because without this, the W of deck was so poor.
I think you’ll find if you look at the sideboards of the decklists Ulka and I have posted that we always play at least 1 Pithing Needle in our sideboards alongside Trinket Mage
I miss so much draws and card advantage, whats is mor compensatory Serum Vision or Lich combo ? the Greveas i guess cant find slot anyway, the deck look potential to play with grave too with rescue plan.
No Treasure Mage here ? its works well without a tutor for big fatty ?
Welcome Cuson! It's awesome to hear you are interested in the deck. I think Heartless Architect is a lot of fun "fair" deck for the combo-oriented players out there. Hopefully I can address your concerns to your satisfaction.
I have tried a more counter and discard oriented version of the deck and the problems I found were that you only ever wanted to play an Inquisition of Kozilek or a Thoughtseize turn 1, otherwise they got in the way of your turns 2 and 3 which are, without a doubt, our most important turns. Likewise, holding up mana for Remands and Mana Leaks is extremely awkward because they prevent us from making the early explosive plays we need to win most games.
Chalice of the Void has proved to be very good in testing. It works great against a number of decks but mostly in dealing with 1 cmc removal spells. As mentioned above, it hits infect very hard, but it doesn’t do nearly as much against burn. It hits most of their creatures, but those have normally been played before we can drop a Chalice and we also can deal with those threats fairly well with our own creatures. But it unfortunately only hits Lightning Bolt and Lava Spike while the rest of their spells (especially Destructive Revelry) can be cast as normal and we have missed an opportunity to play something more impactful. So I choose to play 1 Chalice of the Void in my sideboard in my Trinket Mage toolbox but I could see an argument for putting that up to 2 or so.
this is the build i started:
4x Lightning Greaves
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Spellskite
Engine
4x Grand Architect
4x Master Transmuter
3x Heartless Summoning
3x Treasure Mage
3x Serum Visions
2x Lodestone Golem
4x Myr Superior
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Blightteel Colossus
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1x Sharuum the Hegemon
1x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Impressions:
1) this build can make an aggro-control playstyle, i like it, can agrresive and defense, but is like an all-in deck.
But i missed some type of removes (Spine of ish Sah) even big, was so utility before) or insta like Path to Exile
Missed Platinum Angel Against a Kitchen Finks deck.
2) Master Transmuter rly make nice tricks here. Treasure Mage show me more efficient (in my build) then Glint-Nest (turn 4 master greveas colossus)
3) Freezing .. missed removes
i guess, we can consider the meta of the region we play .. i dont have infects to playtest against here by bow.
UPDATE 2: Ethersworn Canonist + Spellskite do a magnifique job togheter.
o just try 21 lands, and for now, this works well. Golem do not make muck effective play, losting by canonist. Maybe a Path to exile make best work to remove thread ? confused
Havengul Lich
can do something for us ? block, retunr tutors, skite or some key to the board. make sense do a test !?
Personaly i guess this interesting
Havengul Lich is actually one of the original cards we used in the deck. It was back when the deck was in its standard days and we used Priest of Urbrask and Perilous Myr as a combo win con with Heartless Summoning.
He is a very strong card and honestly I have debated on running him with the Myr regularly.
But besides that:
WE GOT A NEW TEZZY
+1 Create an artifact with T: sacrifice for 1 of any color of mana
-2 Target creature gets +x/-x until end of turn where x is number of artifacts you control
-7 you get an emblem with at beginning of combat target artifact becomes 5/5 creature
personaly i dont like this new tezz for ur build .. if you like, show me points pls ? i like more filter then one extra mana in a turn
i think in a potencial Havengul Lich and a Myr Retriever. Dont know in pratice, but it can buckup important things was countered, destroyed.
Other update i do, was trade Glist_nest for Serum visions, and with heratpain, i dont missed de crane
maybe, wiht the lich crane or even a Mulldrift can maximize more your effects
On Havengul: I find he could be worth running but you'd need to focus your deck around him a bit more than most shells can support atm.
you pay 1, and you are able to cast it, dos not matter the methoed ?
if i pay this i can play the card by the master transmuter?
the most reason i like for suporte and use mor us tutor, bring back skites, superior os anything else
ok, tks you.
i find this link: http://pksongs.site/music/FNM Werewolves vs Heartless Architect 05/04 Round....html
have some FNM ... maybe i any games, we can see something interesting. i just see only 1 os those, and i see a Massacre Wurm ... massacring (pun).
Perilous Myr can help with infect maybe ?
second thing, for know, we`re out of option i guess, surrounding all og those, i hope Aether Revolts can bring us nice options.
I invite you for a esper build and tell us results ^^
how much around him, what exemple of build: Perilous Myr Solemn Simulacrum, things like this ?
can Bloodgift Demon be a good adition for card advantage in this build ?
Not to slow for a 4/3 flier and a card, guess ...
So I plan to try Padeem as a 2 or 3 of. Im not 100% sure yet but i plan to report on him/her(?) after my thursday games.
But on your thoughts with havengul lich, Grand Architect, Master transmuter and Heartless Summoning:
I feel like you could really abuse some comboination of:
Solemn Simulacrum
Perilous Myr
Filigree Familiar
Parasitic Strix
These cards give you a lot of fun ETB triggers but also come down for cheap and with havengul give you resilience and a control aspect that I feel could be really neat.
Do you belive i was thinking in Padeem (in my other thread about master i talk about her) but her can make skite useless, till it add hexproof right?
Or you move skite from MB ?
I`ll remake my manabase and seriously try Massacre Wurm, lich .. and like your idea anda will test myr or cut fox maybe make a paper to test the demon, lets see
Agree the BBB maybe a problem, maybe, because this i`ll remake my mana base add lands like Isolated Chapel, godless shrine to adjust the demand. Remember this is a primary test, because with phyrexian metamorph + Master Transmuter we can do a relly MASSACRE (new pun). here, have much bants, companys etc.
the demon ill test to, because i have the same thought then you. (psuedo phyrexian arena).
i dont consider no Eldrazi, because we need to add some Eldrazi Temple maybe, by fact Grand Architect cant ramp eldrazis
yes, i think about Darkslick Shores, but its not tutorable by Polluted Delta, and Watery Grave and Sunken Hollow are. In a build with 3 Colors, its a thing to consider (this is my thougt)
idk, but talking about my build, 3 heartless is not low probability to draw in open hand and draw (Serum Visions is there for us)
liliana of the veil it's already gone a possibility for me, but i dont say here, but dont know, ur Artifact base is better then other and Tezz filter is nice for us. maybe talk bull***** but..
wait you for more ideas!!
i decide to try something new, and make a list Heartless control
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Grand Architect
2 Havengul Lich
3 Master Transmuter
2 Spellskite
1 Perilous Myr
1 Torrential Gearhulk
3 Treasure Mage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Myr Superion
4 Heartless Summoning
1 Dismember
2 Dispel
2 Mana Leak
2 Negate
3 Tragic Slip
the list idea:
Take control of board, dont lose ur enchant, deal with big threads (Perilous myr make a nice "combo" with tragic, make the -13 easy), and like so much how lich make plays
Superion can take control of aggros nice block on turn 2
Torrential Gearhulk + Master Transmuter can double the mount of controls
This is the first try, ideas of thing can improve ? more counter or more removals, in in doubt
Mentions:
Cards i dont have in hands but i want to try:
Solemn Simulacrum
Thassa, God of the Sea (i like the scry and can do a fast devotion) and can make a wincon.
Ratchet Bomb (a BW tokens locked me)
its all for now, what do you think guys!
thanks
EDIT:
looking for my old cards, i find something nice, maybe
Scuttling Doom Engine + Disciple of Bolas
can do a double damage, gain life much draw, with lich can return
Okay so now that the holidays are done I have more time to post about updates on this. I have very little to report. I played the deck once in a tourney with Variousboots while he was back in town and he did a lot better than I did as I faced: G/W Tron and Naya Ally Aggro.
G/W Tron is literally the worst matchup I've faced in forever. It makes me want to run surgical extraction sideboard to mess with the deck on top of upping ghost Quarters to a full 4 copies. However I am kinda ready to just chalk that one up to a 85% loss for us.
In other news Aether Revolt is fully spoiled and there are a few cards that art intresting and may be worth conisderation and testoing.
Fatal Push: Black finally got removal that is close to Path to exile in power. While its still much less powerful than Path it give us a much easier removal for goyf and many other decks. While it wont completely replace Dismember or Slaughter Pact it is a nice addition to the 2 and gives us a better reach of removal to adjust our decks with.
Yahenni's Expertise: HOLY BOARDWIPE THAT LANDS A MYR SUPERION! That is literally all that is needed to be said. It give us excellent removal for a wrath with decks that go wide such as Elves and still allows us to maximize the value we can crank out. I plan to test 2 int he sideboard.
Walking Ballista: So this guy is the onyl card I plan to test right off the bat. It seems to be the most efficient and effective scalable beater we have. The ability to dodge removal by pinging down creature or hitting our opponent in the face is huge! this gives us more reach against Grixis Delver which is nice but also against infect, affinity, Junk's Spirits ect. I plan to main deck 3 atleast to start off.
Merchant's Dockhand: Our lovely 1 drop card advantage engine. While it may be slow and require more artifacts, it can give us a nice amount of draw which our deck lacks. The fact that we can tutor this up with Trinket mage is huge. I plan to test this as I go forward.
While there are aother cards to consider for this set, Im doing this quickly so there is that.
Going on from here on out, I would prefer we try to stay more on-topic of the main decklist. While other decklists are appreciated to give a new flair I'd prefer we stay more on topic of the main list.
Thanks
Ulka
is this the reason dont have some response about some extra builds ? in so curious and ai like to try more and more cards, but ok, if it is for me not to talk alone, go on.
----
i Finally create "courage" and remove white, move on the Lodestone Golem to MB, the primary tax works best then i expected, not gonna lie (when i got 3 on game was nice), but tax the tezz too, was boring.
--
Some post above, when you talk about padeem, a was curios, becase the worst interaction with skite and if you moved it to SB? whats happened with the test ?
--
About new cards:
Fatal Push OMG no words
Merchant's Dockhand you really guess this can best advantage ? if we tap all many artifact, and its all ur creatures, we dont have attack / block maybe ? in this case i like Reverse Engineer and maybe consider Tezzeret the Seeker (reverser the tap, can tutor superior, bridge, shackles or some keys).
Walking Ballista can be a nice removal little boring creatures
i think about Scrap Trawler too, can rescue something ... think about this turn 3 kill Scrap Trawler + Heartless Summoning and Perilous Myr funny.
and talk about tezz, in a second look, the new tezz have a nice removal too.
--
if interest, this is my list for now (if want to help, appreciate it
2 Sphinx Summoner
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Blightsteel Colossus
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Glint-Nest Crane
4 Grand Architect
2 Havengul Lich
4 Heartless Summoning
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Master Transmuter
4 Myr Superion
2 Perilous Myr
1 Academy Ruins
3 Sunken Hollow
5 Swamp
5 Island
2 Watery Grave
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
//Planes
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Graves
i guess Serum or maybe a Sleight of Hand is very important to find pieces early, but dont know where, or i need to lost de lich combo.
Glad if i`n not to talk alone again my ideas (if it is not good enough, you can say me to change the focus)
seeya
EDIT:
Have you consider Pithing Needle as side? is nice againt all matchs:
infetc: Blinkmoth Nexus, Pendelhaven
Tron: Karn, Ugin, oblivion
Burn: Some feths
Viscera Seer and much mor
@Sting
Welcome! It’s always nice to hear from more fans of our enchantment! I too miss the days of Heartless Summoning and Priest of Urabrask. As Ulka mentioned above, we used to run them in Standard combo deck where we made infinite mana Havengul Lich and then killed the opponent with Perilous Myr triggers or a big Devil’s Play. It was a janky but powerful combo kill with a ton synergy and soo much fun to play.
Massacre Wurm is a sweet card but I think it is too slow for this list (it is only good if we have Heartless Summoning) and it wipes our board too. In just a couple weeks we should be looking instead at Yahenni’s Expertise to wipe the board and drop a threat after. If you are still interested in a big Massacre Wurm type ability, check out Contagion Engine it’s actually pretty easy for us to get online especially if you are playing a controlish build and works great with Master Transmuter if you are still on that plan.
Perilous Myr seems to have shown up a lot on here lately. I am pretty much always thinking about playing two of them in my list but I usually don’t end up pulling the trigger on that. In the next couple weeks I’ll be thinking a lot about this vs Walking Ballista in our list. A lot of cool ideas with that one.
I’d love to hear how the control build test has been going. About a year ago I tried out a control build that played Lilianna of the Veil, Mana Leak, some discard spells, and more kill spells. It worked decently well and I won a lot of matches with it but it was really awkward. The deck felt pulled in too many directions. I found that I was basically time walking myself by trying to hold up mana for counter spells instead of playing things like Heartless Summoning or other engine pieces. So if you find a good way to do it, I’m all ears.
Also, this is probably obvious because I’m responding to an older post, but Fatal Push is definitely an upgraded Tragic Slip (except against Tron, but that’s a whole different story)
I’m glad you took the leap. It’s a great feeling to see other people fall in love with Lodeston Golem the way I did. Like everyone else, I was skeptical at first but since I took the plunge, it has won me more games than any other card.
Don’t worry about getting cards like Tezzeret stuck in your hand. As long as you have multiple golems out you should be winning the game. And the minute they spend all of their resources removing your creatures, you get to slam a planeswalker down in their face and take over the game again.
I haven’t tried Padeem, Consul of Innovation yet but I thought a lot about it and I would much rather test Kira, Great Glass-Spinner instead. It works much much better alongside Spellskite and it comes down a turn earlier, and it protects itself. That being said, I haven’t tested Kira yet either.
I think you’ll find if you look at the sideboards of the decklists Ulka and I have posted that we always play at least 1 Pithing Needle in our sideboards alongside Trinket Mage
I can’t speak for Ulka on this, but I believe he is getting at is the question of what discussion should be in this thread and what could be considered ‘off topic’ and would be better suited in another place.
My personal opinion on this matter is that, in this thread, we are working on a fairly specific deck that we have outlined in the primer. That being a deck using the redundancy of the cost reducing effects of Grand Architect and Heartless Summoning and their analogs to produce a board state which overwhelms the opponent with powerful artifacts.
Now, there are a lot of creative deck ideas that use either Heartless Summoning or Grand Architect as they are very fun and powerful cards to brew with but I would consider almost all of those ideas to be different decks and there more than likely already exists a thread that they would fit into and in those cases I will try to politely refer those suggestions to the appropriate place. An example of this is the Eldrazi thread that I directed Sting to in my comment above.
Ultimately everyone’s opinions on what lists and discussions belong in this thread will always be subjective and ignoring people’s suggestions/criticisms/ideas solely because they don’t fit our vision for the deck is foolish and unfair. So in general, when anyone does suggest new cards/decklists I strongly suggest that they include a reason why that card or, for example their alternate control build, could be an improvement over the previous choices that others have made and is worth discussing and/or testing. Including a brief explanation of your thought process helps everyone to see that your post is a contribution to the longer narrative rather than just a new brew that could be cool.
I can’t speak for Ulka on this, but I believe he is getting at is the question of what discussion should be in this thread and what could be considered ‘off topic’ and would be better suited in another place.
My personal opinion on this matter is that, in this thread, we are working on a fairly specific deck that we have outlined in the primer. That being a deck using the redundancy of the cost reducing effects of Grand Architect and Heartless Summoning and their analogs to produce a board state which overwhelms the opponent with powerful artifacts.
Now, there are a lot of creative deck ideas that use either Heartless Summoning or Grand Architect as they are very fun and powerful cards to brew with but I would consider almost all of those ideas to be different decks and there more than likely already exists a thread that they would fit into and in those cases I will try to politely refer those suggestions to the appropriate place. An example of this is the Eldrazi thread that I directed Sting to in my comment above.
Ultimately everyone’s opinions on what lists and discussions belong in this thread will always be subjective and ignoring people’s suggestions/criticisms/ideas solely because they don’t fit our vision for the deck is foolish and unfair. So in general, when anyone does suggest new cards/decklists I strongly suggest that they include a reason why that card or, for example their alternate control build, could be an improvement over the previous choices that others have made and is worth discussing and/or testing. Including a brief explanation of your thought process helps everyone to see that your post is a contribution to the longer narrative rather than just a new brew that could be cool.[/quote]
FIrst off,
Im's sorry. When I was typing it out, it was mean to be a bit more pleasantly worded and such but I was busy so it came out kinda harsh so I appologize. I was more meaning the other builds are great and I love discussing them but just wanted to remind you and myself that the main purpose of the thread to is to focus on the discussion on the namesake cards and that should be the primary focus.
While Variousboots and I have one build we feel is very solid and you have yours I feel the individual difference are worth discussing but I don't want the thread to get too far off topic as I am working towards making this a primer and to follow the fourms rules on staying ontopic is something I'd like to stay closer to becasue I feel like we were veering a bit but it might have just been me.
As Variousboots Mentioned, there are other threads for other focuses of the deck list as we took a differing position from the Grand Architect thread. While we have overlap they focus on more monoblue lists that are less midrangy but rather more extended aggro where as we are a strict Midrange deck. So I don't mind a bit of back and forth on new ideas but I want to make sure we stay more ontopic which is something that all of us, including myself need to be reminded of
I meant no offense in my comments and I appologize if anyone got offended.
Ulka
@Sting, Welcome I hope we can intruge you into the decklist. I agree wholeheartedly with all that Various Mentioned above as we had a chance to talk face to face while he was in town about the things you mentioned. i would be really intrested if you ended up buidling a Grixis verion of this or something along those lines as I think it could give some insight.
On the Perilous Myr topic, I love this little guy. I honeslty am known to cram 1 or 2 into my lists as they are free shocks basically which is always fun. However I find with him you need to run Havengul Lich as he is best when you can repeat the shocks across the board. I was thikning about htis today and I think Various is right about the Bastilla competeing for the sdmae spot and honestly I thing with both I need to consider running them again espically with how this banned list update ended up.
On to the banned list topic:
With Golgari Grave Troll and Gitaxian Probe bewing banned the format is about to slow down which is soemthign at first I was exicted about then I realized this means tron is back... our worst match up is back. yay?
ill make a long post, during the day (when i post it will not even seem during half day hahah), and i hope (i`m sorry for this) response about old question i have doubt ok ?!
first of all:
i`m sorry if appears it, but i have consider Various and Ulka list for sure to base my, because i dont fell consistence in some aspect i cant recognize, i`n relative new player, and had never invest in a deck, and i want lost my fear and start to play FNM after make it consistence.
the cards i mention before is only about quality to put all together and think (i like to create and not just copy a list), despite you`re eperiente, neverknow if missed some point any time hehe
and i love some combos.
lets start:
@Ulka
When you post your list i observe you have no Treasure Mage as tutor and asked its worked well without it? for a posssible turn 3 Wurmcoil?
@VariousBoots
I do some tests with the wurm, and i like and i dislike (in any of firts game, i take care about 6 tokens elemental from Merfolk deck) of course Ensnaring Bridge do all the work here, 1 attack and i dead. Ensnaring Bridge is a star all game he can be droped, seriously. Walking Ballista looks promising.
But after this, dont have chance to use again and, blah, i just want more tutorable cards, i have a Contagion Engine and after you say this, ill back to deck. Master Transmuter is never out my plan, i just love her hahah big tricks with it. This is the first thing i missed was removal, and i consider a combination of Spine of ish Sah and Phyrexia's core to save some Master Tap. I consider Duplicant in my build for exile with master can maximize the potential.
I play this control list a weekend, and i felt like you, really awkward, like what i do now try to accel my game or counter omg, i guess it 2 so different playstyle, maybe hard to walk together. My primary ideia wiht it was play with Shimmer Myr and if the opponent dont do worrisome spells, just toss ur artifacts. And the power of Torrential Gearhulk is too funny, but the build not looks consistence.
i always like Lodeston Golem, when i tyr a build whit Kuldhota Forgemaster i used, but 2 copies only, and felt the power with 2 hahah but Ethersown Canonist always make great job, especially with skite, but i open my worlds for know because without this, the W of deck was so poor.
My bad, i dont saw, sry
-----
NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT FOR ME
2 Sphinx Summoner
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Blightsteel Colossus
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Glint-Nest Crane
4 Grand Architect
2 Havengul Lich
4 Heartless Summoning
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Master Transmuter
4 Myr Superion
2 Perilous Myr
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Academy Ruins
3 Sunken Hollow
5 Swamp
5 Island
2 Watery Grave
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
//Planes
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Graves
I miss so much draws and card advantage, whats is mor compensatory Serum Vision or Lich combo ? the Greveas i guess cant find slot anyway, the deck look potential to play with grave too with rescue plan.
i`n suffering for aggro, how you deal aggro (elves, goblin) if have aggro in your meta, pls !