Hello everyone. First off, this is my first time posting here but reading the conversation has been really helpful as I navigate this deck. My list is pretty standard. So far I've played the deck 4 times going 3-0-2, 4-1, 5-0, 3-2 (split each time in top 8) in addition to testing against a ton of other decks (so I guess if anyone has questions I'd love to get in on sharing my experiences). Anyway, the reason I'm here is because I'm playing around with some shifts in the deck and wanted to see what anyone else's suggestions/experiences were like.
First, Phantasmal Image. This card can be silly good when you find it off of a CoCo. Wanderer, Selfless, Queller, Rattlechains, Drogskol all make excellent targets. The problem is that if you don't have any of those then seeing a Phantasmal on a CoCo is bad, and the more frequent problem is because it doesn't get flash off of Rattlechains sometimes you draw this thing and it just sits in your hand and does nothing. So I guess his problem is that when he's good he's bonkers (a small amount of the time, I'd say 30%) and when he isn't he's awful. So I've been eyeing replacements and have it down to 3. Kira (obviously, gets out of targeted removal, very nice but maybe too redundant with double Drogskol potential), Nebelghast (I haven't tested this much but it does seem potential super silly. Anyone have results with it?), and finally Qasali Pridemage (this may be unexpected but this card is straight gas. Let's us get out of Blood Moon or a Worship or any other problems, plus the exalted is kind of dope). So what are your thoughts? Am I just Imaging wrong or is one of these potential replacements genuinely better?
My second question is: has anyone tested out a 1-of Moorland Haunt? My 1-of Gavony Township puts in work, and I find myself with mana up at the end of turn relatively frequently so the potential of having something to do with it seems quite nice. I'm already going to add 2 Misty Rainforest to my version (probably taking out the Glacial Fortress and a shock). I'm sure I could find one more spot for Moorland. Any testing results with this card? Is it worth it, or doing too much/being too cute.
Anyway, thanks for being an awesome thread. I hope to be around more.
Edit: Also, does anyone have a sideboard guide lurking out there? I'd love to see some ideas on that.
I'm getting back into this deck after taking a break. Did well when the Spirits first became a thing, top 8'd a few PPTQ's, and my win rate is curiously high, over 75%. Fundamentally it's a hard deck to play against.
To answer some of batmansbackpack's questions, I do play 2 Nebelgast Herald and have been content with them. Like the Sword of the Godhead, it's situational, but I can hit it off CoCo and don't have to play it as a sorcery.
I like 2 Gavony Township over 1 and 1 Moorland Haunt. Township is very good with Geist of Saint Traft. My deck facilitates the Saint in particular. I play 4 and 2 supporting Birds of Paradise. I'd rather draw multiple Saints than not draw any at all.
I would recommend against Kira and Phantasmal Image. Kira still dies to Abrupt Decay and doesn't save your creature if you respond with CoCo. Phantasmal Image can't be saved after it's targeted, and it's a nombo with Rattlechains.
My sideboard is a bit of a mess, but I can recommend Kami of False Hope. It's superb against Infect-style decks and provides the extra turn needed to win against fair creature decks like Merfolk. One card I'm interested in is Eidolon of Rhetoric. It can slow down combo decks, and it's synergistic with Spell Queller. If they kill your Queller, Eidolon stops them from casting the unlocked spell. Has anyone experimented with it? On the other hand, maybe my sideboard slots should be Chalice of the Void, as it's faster against the new Cheerios deck.
Is it me, or is the deck very fragile and draw dependent? Once I draw the cards I am sort of 'lorcked in' and there is very little I can do expect ride it out.
What did you play against? I don't think that this deck is fragile at all...
I played against many different things. But my usual sparring partner in that time frame was a person brewing a monoblac 'jund style' deck. With 4 phyrexian obliterator, 2 bitter blossoms and some packrats.
I went about 50 /50, but so many of the spirits are very small. I also played a lot of UW spirits, but CoCo is just such a powerfull card.
Anyway the UW people have pretty much agreed that Tallowisp is a bad card. And I pretty much agree. I did never try it out Rancor and I think maybe that could work. Rancor has some synergi with Mosouleum Wanderer in addition to being good on it's own.
Some cards that have had some suckess as a tempo card in the UW list is also Nebelgast Herald. I think it could be good of Coco.
Has anybody tried Metallic Mimic? While Selfless Spirits and Rattlechains is cool, they are not that offensive. Mimmic could work in a CoCo list because we get more creatures.
Also, I tryed out Permeating Mass in a CoCo list. It was a '5th path to exile'. It worked fine vs creature decks. Bad vs combo decks.
I've liked Nebelgast Herald well enough. I play two. Had a third in my sideboard today, though it likely just should've been a Worship.
Eidolon of Rhetoric wrecked a Snapcaster deck today. That card is just solid against control, Burn, and combo. Am tempted to add a second to my sideboard, but I'm worried Cheerios may kill me before I can resolve it. Currently have two Chalice of the Void against combo. Was fiddling with Ceremonial Rejection vs Eldrazi and Tron and Affinity decks, but it's not always good vs Cavern of Souls in Bant Eldrazi. Most importantly, I suggest Leyline of Sanctity. It's good vs the massive discard suite of Death's Shadow, and we do not want opponents looking at our hand.
Hi everyone, just wanted to plug an article I recently wrote about underrated competitive decks in Modern: Bant Spirits made the cut! You can find the article here.
Is boarding Rest in Peace vs jund version of death's shadow worth it?
I've been removing 3 Phantasmal Image for a Path to Exile, Blessed Alliance, and a Negate; and an Engineered Explosives when I am on the draw for a Spell Queller or Geist.
Rest in Peace seems amazing in theory, but it has a serious timing discrepancy. If it is in your opening hand, a large amount of time it's going to get the discard. If you draw it too late, they would have already traversed for their death's shadows.
It doesn't really work with CoCo if you hit it and is a pretty bad topdeck.
A similar effect can be achieved with Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit which benefits from the "flash" ability of Rattlechains as well.
I play 3 path and 1 blessed alliance main board. I also do Kira and 2 Steels main board. I only play on MTGO so my SB needs to be a bit wide. I also run a Gavony, GQ and Caverns main board and tend to side out one if I need a lot of cards to board in. Out of the normal decks I see I tend to have the most trouble with Tron (Though taking your advice into consideration), Tokens, Soul Sisters, and Lantern.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar would probably be better than Elspeth, the anthem can really swing the game and he makes better tokens.
He is usingElspeth, Knight-Errant to push Geist of Saint Traft through blockers, which is the same reason most of us use Steel of the Godhead. As such, I would agree with him that she is a better fit than Gideon, Ally of Zendikar in this deck. Giving +3/+3 to a creature is equivalent to giving 3 creatures +1/+1, and you get to keep your planeswalker. The Emblem is better on the defense, but you would probably have created a token anyway in that scenario.
I was thinking about making Mausoleum Wanderer (better taxing) and Spell Queller (out of bolt range) bigger rather than about Geist but I see the intention.
Gideon is probably better on an empty board though.
Hey guys, just throwing my list up. I'm one of those mainboard Thalia guys. I've seen a real uptick in UW Control, Ad Nauseum and Gifts Storm at my LGS, so she's only getting better. Even still, she does a good job of slowing decks like DSA, Burn and BW Tokens. Elspeth in the main as a way to facilitate Giest is interesting, I'll give it a go on Monday.
Maindecking an anti-combo card like Thalia is definitely an interesting meta call.
Have you tested meddling mage in that spot? I've had a couple in my sideboard for a while and I think they might be the better card. Much more targeted hate against combo decks, acts as a selfless spirit against control, doesn't tax your companies, and has more utility against decks that ignore Thalia.
Additionally I don't think I understand the appeal of playing 4-mana walkers. We already have a high curve, our creatures are better at racing than at defending, and it hurts our companies. Like, nothing in our deck can block a wild nacatyl. Gideon/Elspeth will be killed where a steel of the godhead wouldn't.
This isn't the "generic CoCo bant colors forum" is it? I mean I'm not trying to be toxic here but why would you suggest a non-spirit non-flyer non-flash non-disruptive card that has zero synergy with our deck and game plan? Rhonas is a good card (maybe) but don't you think it would work better in a deck that has smiters and knights and doesn't need to tap mana every turn to make it do anything?
And stubborn denial needs big creatures and doesn't even play well with company (we play small creatures and company). Spell pierce would be better the vast majority of the time, and that card is rarely good enough for modern not what we're looking for.
I'm checking every spoiler for the spirit creature type too guys, but shouldn't we try to be at least somewhat reasonable when suggesting possible options?
This deck has really kicked off in my area and it has been doing quite good in results. Spell Queller is the best card in the deck, without a doubt. How has this deck done against Death's Shadow variants lately? That deck certainly taken over the reins as the most played top tier deck in Modern unfortunately.
First, Phantasmal Image. This card can be silly good when you find it off of a CoCo. Wanderer, Selfless, Queller, Rattlechains, Drogskol all make excellent targets. The problem is that if you don't have any of those then seeing a Phantasmal on a CoCo is bad, and the more frequent problem is because it doesn't get flash off of Rattlechains sometimes you draw this thing and it just sits in your hand and does nothing. So I guess his problem is that when he's good he's bonkers (a small amount of the time, I'd say 30%) and when he isn't he's awful. So I've been eyeing replacements and have it down to 3. Kira (obviously, gets out of targeted removal, very nice but maybe too redundant with double Drogskol potential), Nebelghast (I haven't tested this much but it does seem potential super silly. Anyone have results with it?), and finally Qasali Pridemage (this may be unexpected but this card is straight gas. Let's us get out of Blood Moon or a Worship or any other problems, plus the exalted is kind of dope). So what are your thoughts? Am I just Imaging wrong or is one of these potential replacements genuinely better?
My second question is: has anyone tested out a 1-of Moorland Haunt? My 1-of Gavony Township puts in work, and I find myself with mana up at the end of turn relatively frequently so the potential of having something to do with it seems quite nice. I'm already going to add 2 Misty Rainforest to my version (probably taking out the Glacial Fortress and a shock). I'm sure I could find one more spot for Moorland. Any testing results with this card? Is it worth it, or doing too much/being too cute.
Anyway, thanks for being an awesome thread. I hope to be around more.
Edit: Also, does anyone have a sideboard guide lurking out there? I'd love to see some ideas on that.
To answer some of batmansbackpack's questions, I do play 2 Nebelgast Herald and have been content with them. Like the Sword of the Godhead, it's situational, but I can hit it off CoCo and don't have to play it as a sorcery.
I like 2 Gavony Township over 1 and 1 Moorland Haunt. Township is very good with Geist of Saint Traft. My deck facilitates the Saint in particular. I play 4 and 2 supporting Birds of Paradise. I'd rather draw multiple Saints than not draw any at all.
I would recommend against Kira and Phantasmal Image. Kira still dies to Abrupt Decay and doesn't save your creature if you respond with CoCo. Phantasmal Image can't be saved after it's targeted, and it's a nombo with Rattlechains.
My sideboard is a bit of a mess, but I can recommend Kami of False Hope. It's superb against Infect-style decks and provides the extra turn needed to win against fair creature decks like Merfolk. One card I'm interested in is Eidolon of Rhetoric. It can slow down combo decks, and it's synergistic with Spell Queller. If they kill your Queller, Eidolon stops them from casting the unlocked spell. Has anyone experimented with it? On the other hand, maybe my sideboard slots should be Chalice of the Void, as it's faster against the new Cheerios deck.
I played against many different things. But my usual sparring partner in that time frame was a person brewing a monoblac 'jund style' deck. With 4 phyrexian obliterator, 2 bitter blossoms and some packrats.
I went about 50 /50, but so many of the spirits are very small. I also played a lot of UW spirits, but CoCo is just such a powerfull card.
Anyway the UW people have pretty much agreed that Tallowisp is a bad card. And I pretty much agree. I did never try it out Rancor and I think maybe that could work. Rancor has some synergi with Mosouleum Wanderer in addition to being good on it's own.
Some cards that have had some suckess as a tempo card in the UW list is also Nebelgast Herald. I think it could be good of Coco.
Has anybody tried Metallic Mimic? While Selfless Spirits and Rattlechains is cool, they are not that offensive. Mimmic could work in a CoCo list because we get more creatures.
Also, I tryed out Permeating Mass in a CoCo list. It was a '5th path to exile'. It worked fine vs creature decks. Bad vs combo decks.
What do peole think of
Rancor with Tallowisp
Metallic Mimic
Permeating Mass
Eidolon of Rhetoric wrecked a Snapcaster deck today. That card is just solid against control, Burn, and combo. Am tempted to add a second to my sideboard, but I'm worried Cheerios may kill me before I can resolve it. Currently have two Chalice of the Void against combo. Was fiddling with Ceremonial Rejection vs Eldrazi and Tron and Affinity decks, but it's not always good vs Cavern of Souls in Bant Eldrazi. Most importantly, I suggest Leyline of Sanctity. It's good vs the massive discard suite of Death's Shadow, and we do not want opponents looking at our hand.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
I've been removing 3 Phantasmal Image for a Path to Exile, Blessed Alliance, and a Negate; and an Engineered Explosives when I am on the draw for a Spell Queller or Geist.
Rest in Peace seems amazing in theory, but it has a serious timing discrepancy. If it is in your opening hand, a large amount of time it's going to get the discard. If you draw it too late, they would have already traversed for their death's shadows.
A similar effect can be achieved with Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit which benefits from the "flash" ability of Rattlechains as well.
I play 3 path and 1 blessed alliance main board. I also do Kira and 2 Steels main board. I only play on MTGO so my SB needs to be a bit wide. I also run a Gavony, GQ and Caverns main board and tend to side out one if I need a lot of cards to board in. Out of the normal decks I see I tend to have the most trouble with Tron (Though taking your advice into consideration), Tokens, Soul Sisters, and Lantern.
He is usingElspeth, Knight-Errant to push Geist of Saint Traft through blockers, which is the same reason most of us use Steel of the Godhead. As such, I would agree with him that she is a better fit than Gideon, Ally of Zendikar in this deck. Giving +3/+3 to a creature is equivalent to giving 3 creatures +1/+1, and you get to keep your planeswalker. The Emblem is better on the defense, but you would probably have created a token anyway in that scenario.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
Gideon is probably better on an empty board though.
2x Botanical Sanctum
1x Breeding Pool
1x Cavern of Souls
3x Flooded Strand
1x Forest
2x Gavony Township
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
3x Misty Rainforest
1x Plains
2x Temple Garden
3x Windswept Heath
4x Drogskol Captain
3x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Mausoleum Wanderer
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Rattlechains
4x Selfless Spirit
4x Spell Queller
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Collected Company
4x Path to Exile
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Negate
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Rest in Peace
1x Spellskite
1x Stony Silence
Have you tested meddling mage in that spot? I've had a couple in my sideboard for a while and I think they might be the better card. Much more targeted hate against combo decks, acts as a selfless spirit against control, doesn't tax your companies, and has more utility against decks that ignore Thalia.
Additionally I don't think I understand the appeal of playing 4-mana walkers. We already have a high curve, our creatures are better at racing than at defending, and it hurts our companies. Like, nothing in our deck can block a wild nacatyl. Gideon/Elspeth will be killed where a steel of the godhead wouldn't.
This isn't the "generic CoCo bant colors forum" is it? I mean I'm not trying to be toxic here but why would you suggest a non-spirit non-flyer non-flash non-disruptive card that has zero synergy with our deck and game plan? Rhonas is a good card (maybe) but don't you think it would work better in a deck that has smiters and knights and doesn't need to tap mana every turn to make it do anything?
And stubborn denial needs big creatures and doesn't even play well with company (we play small creatures and company). Spell pierce would be better the vast majority of the time, and that card is rarely good enough for modern not what we're looking for.
I'm checking every spoiler for the spirit creature type too guys, but shouldn't we try to be at least somewhat reasonable when suggesting possible options?