A couple notes:
-There's a numbers change on many cards from original post
-In and Out
Reclamation Sage
Acidic Slime
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Spreading Algae
The Gitrog Monster
Beast Within
First draft of deck complete, will be playtesting soon. Going to take me some time to save up for 4x horizon canopy though :\. No one's selling teh cheaper zendikar version
Not sure what to put into sideboard, but it will probably have something to do with stopping Eldrazi.
I am considering adding some artifacts like: expedition map and chromatic star. expedition map is pretty much the same thing as sylvan scrying. The extra artifacts can help achieve delirium. I would probably remove the scrying and something else?
I won't be able to test this until next week. I am short a Loam, Ooze, 4x Beast Within, 4x Windswept Heath, and 4x Canopy.
I can get all of it except canopy over the weekend.
Yes. I was thinking the same thing about aggro. My only defenses against it really are all 3 drops(KotR, Courser, Finks). I should trade out the beast within's for path to exiles, no? Have a good base defense against creatures. Nameless Inversion could be boss. It's a nice two for one on type and is quite relative early on. I like this card a lot.
I suppose you may be right about Gitrog. I wanted a way to replay Sejiri Steppe. And I can't do that unless I put Sejiri into my yard or hand. I could go for a Moonfolk, or Ruin Ghost, or maybe even trade routes That Gitrog is probably win more, along with these other options.
Yea, I should take Algae out. Acidic Slime can mostly do the same thing.
Safe Haven is a big player here.
- abuses etb like slime, witness, finks.
- chump-blocks like a boss
- great against target removal, and can lessen the blow of mass removal.
Sakura-Tribe Scout can make for an awesome turn 2 that could include ghost quartering, casting and sac'ing vessel, tutoring a Sejiri to protect a sick KotR on turn 3, or casting a 3cmc anti-aggro tank. Teeg, Slime, and Ghost Quarter shut down Tron decks, assuming they resolve.
I see your point though, if I don't have Scout, everything including fulfilling delirium is slow.
I'd like to stick to green as closely as I can. Cheap Self-sacrificing enchantments are tremendous assets for delirium. Seal of Fire is modern, but Seal of Strength isn't? You cannot be serious Wizards!
"Life Crime" is plenty. How can any single card stop KotR with Safe Haven or Sejiri Steppe.
I'm just not enthusiastic about Coralhelm and Kessig Wolf Run as a finisher. It's rather powerful powerful, I'm just not a fan of infinite stuff.
I have a similar deck in legacy. It uses Crop Rotation and Green Sun's Zenith along with Sylvan Safekeeper. It plays similarly to Ernham Geddon. It works because KotR can outgrow the vast majority of creatures rather quickly... Even Goyf. The deck is mostly green, sans swords and geddon. All 3 of the aforementioned cards are not legal in modern. Nor does modern offer such powerful lands. Still, I think I can come up with a decent enough deck that runs similarly.
Thanks for the advice on cockatrice. I will be playtesting as soon as I download it. I am quite intrigued by Mishra's Bauble, and Nameless Inversion.
In legacy I used tranquil thicket. These more or less have the same effect. They don't pump kotr, but they do pump delirium. If I build this properly, I should be able to achieve delirium quickly.
I really like the tech of Lightning Bolt, Seal of Fire, and Mishra's Bauble. I don't have immediate answers for turns 1-3 drops. I have some nice 3 drops but I don't wanna watch KotR die the first turn he sniffs the battlefield.
Courser of Kruphix is no joke on generating card advantage with cycling and Sakura-Tribe Scout. Geier Reach sanitarium works well here to. It may not be that efficient of a land, but it stuffs counterbalance, helps KotR, and helps delirium.
I was debating which route to take on establishing delirium. And you pretty much answered it. I'm leaning towards cycling. And I would like to see how that red variation does as well.
Mishra's Bauble: It's basically a deck-thinner that helps delirium. Not quite Cycling, but its close, and its free.
Hangarback Walker: You're right, can create card disadvantage. And as you inferred, we don't have enough delirium in the deck to really need delirium that quick.
Chromatic Star: It draws and lets us mana-fix our "one-of" splashes.
Seal of Fire: I really like this card, so much that I want to splash enough red lands to play this turn 1 whenever its in my hand. It prevents creatures with 2 or less toughness from being played(if they're important)
Sigil of the Nayan Gods: This is another cycler. It doesn't add anything to the deck except more cycling with enchantment-delirium. It can still do wonders with Courser.
Edge of Autumn: It can mana-fix, it can cycle, and it can pump KotR, it can sacrifice a land. Cycling can be done at instant speed.
Gather the Pack: This is almost like auto-delirium. But we already have plenty of sorceries.
I bolded the one's I'm leaning towards. I'm certainly going to add a courser, maybe even make him a 4-of.
Teeg is important. The biggest enemy of the deck is Wrath of God and Tron. He stops most planeswalkers as well.
Slime covers a lot of ground for his cost. It covers every permanent but creatures and planeswalkers. It kind of makes sense to use Reclamation Sage instead, but this guy is the exclamation point on Raven's Crime and Loam being enough. (Safe Haven)
I may deck-test Gitrog, I already nabbed a copy of one. I mise as well. Cycling(10) and Courser might be all the card advantage we need. I'm just not overly excited about grim flayer. He's a good card, if we go the fast delirium route, but I'm leaning more towards achieving delirium around turn 3 or 4. And I think your advice helped me get ready to deck-test.
***I will have to deck-test in legacy with Grasslands and Tranquil Thicket. Canopy is absurdly priced(hello cycling), and I am poor, I can't do more than 20 or 30 bucks a week, to get Ooze, a Loam, and the rest.
I looked for Cockatrice, but was unable to find it. Its facing legality issues.
Either way, i'm probably going to exchange the seals for path to exile, so I don't have to run 4 colors. Although Domri Rade looks particularly fantastic. I have also been using 2 beast within's. It's just extra major problem card removal.
Edge of Autumn became a 4-of. The reason is its good no matter what part of the game. It can mana-fix early on(great since were mostly green). And it can sac sejiri steppe or bojuka bog(and pump kotr). Which is no joke with a loam(practically unkillable, especially with cycling at instant-speed) and sakura(4 of). I forgot to add a swamp to the deck lol. Harrow also makes sense.
I'm likely to add an extra finks, as well(3 courser, 2 finks). That with 4 paths and 2 beast within's, should mostly handle weenie aggro?
One thing I've noticed is Courser and Finks are tremendous anti-tanks. I haven't been able to use the safe haven trickery with finks or e-wit, but I can't wait. I'm deck testing in legacy right now, which gives me access to tranquil paths(canopy), grasslands(windswept), and swords to plowshares(path). All of which have similar counterparts in modern, that I am yet to acquire.
I am still missing Path to Exile along with Canopy and Windswept Heath. I should be able to get everything but canopy next week. In the meanwhile, I have been testing the deck in legacy with similar counterparts.
Though I have had much success with it (3-0) in matches, I am nonetheless not convinced I am anywhere near an optimal deck.
I played against a mid-range Boros metalcraft deck. I achieved Delirium rather early and was fortunate to find a Loam with all that shuffling going on. Used Ghost Quarter, Reclamation Sage, and Safe Haven to leave him with only mountains and a couple creatures. He quit when I Swords his legendary 5/4 first strike. Unfortunately I never got to use Raven's Crime, but that was next. A really nice drawing sequence in this one.
I played against a Death Shadow/Mother of Runes deck. Unfortunately Mother of Runes can't protect against two colors(Swords/Within). I popped out a Teeg when he hit 4 or 5 mana, and just developed my board at will to take victory.
The last deck I played against tried to establish a Platinum Angel with some indestructible artifact equipment to give it indestructible. Suffice to say he never got it, in fact he was never even able to attach it.
None of these decks seemed competitive except the shadow one.
Here is the current decklist I am using, and I still might completely flip it as I agree with some of your concerns.
The sigil was flat out removed. Cycling is nice, but I have cards that cycle lands into the graveyard. One of them is a land and the other gives delirium a sorcery and a land.
Edge of Autumn can actually search for a 5th land and that is bigger than it might appear.
Reclamation Sage is pretty much the same thing as Teeg, just no exalted. I don't need a 2nd one really, especially IF I continue to use Beast Within(2). You could make a strong case that Qasali is the better card, it prevents people from playing good enchantments. But there's no surprise effect. I'm on the fence on this one, because I really haven't used Safe Haven too much.
Kessig Wolf Run requires Retreat to Coralhelm. Just not into infinite that's been done before.
This deck doesn't need more than 5 or 6 mana to do pretty much anything it wants. And in the games I've played I've never really had more than 6-8 mana, and that's on the high side.
Glittering Wish: Dear Diary on toolbox. Wow that could be a great card, that simply extends our toolbox. Definitely worth a 2-of.
The thing about Scout is it's not a necessary card with Tranquil Thicket. Still, when I get Horizon Canopy, they almost demand it. Or some other additional lands play. It's still a nice way to cheat out a Ghost Quarter or an Urborg or Safe Haven without necessarily slowing me down. But I'm not completely sold on Safe Haven probably because I'm not sure if they actually have removal. So I'm almost forced to save 2 mana, which is a pain in the butt. On top of this, if I can't play multiple lands in a turn, the deck can stall on being able to do more than 1 thing in a turn if I'm relegated to this "trick".
I did face a Maverick deck when I was using seal of fire instead of exile. I lost 0-2, but held my own for a long time in both. I didn't have exiles, or Sylvan Safekeeper or better fetches than Grasslands. I didn't have Titania, Protector of Argoth or any of those wacko lands, but was still able make the the two game contest worth about 30 turns. That's saying something when a modern deck without exile, can endure a mirror-match against a legacy deck.
I have been disappointed with lackluster competition after I changed the deck to its current state after that mirror.
Things this deck is good at:
-Stalling/Limiting Damage
-Searching/Drawing/Top-decking
-Versatility
If I can't overpower you with KotR, I can remove your biggest threat, and ride the card advantage(and kotr) to victory. I don't think the deck will do to well against Zoo, but it has an average matchup against other types of aggro decks. I haven't seen a counterspell deck, and no I don't look forward to it. Any deck that tries to abuse some land, graveyard, or mana acceleration is going to get destroyed. But hey, haven't even made a sideboard yet. Exile and graveyard hate can also be trouble. What do you think about Ruin Ghost. There's also zero anti-air.
PS: I don't necessarily need Hangarback Walker. He's mostly tapped when I actually play him, and is pretty much just a free source of artifact/creature for delirium. I have noticed that I have little trouble getting lands, sorceries, and instants into the graveyard. Creatures have been a whole different story. Oh Bauble.
attrition vs. replayable. My oh my, that is a dilemma indeed. As a 1-of answer that kinda needs delirium, the one-time 3 mana cost isn't so bad.
Safe Haven + Reclamation has already won me a contest. The deck is now 5-0 in a combination of single games and best of 3 matches.
Still, saving 2 mana for haven is exhausting. And I'm not far from replacing safe haven with mortuary mire. I realize top of the deck is not that strong but the deck has plenty of cycling. This would also make the deck more resilient to self-dredge. Our best sink is cycling.
One of the real strengths of the deck, which you touched on a bit is courser of kruphix. We can shuffle top-deck with any search card(8) or dredge. It's an inherent scry, and because the deck is no stranger to cycling it hardly ever presents the problem of--- I don't want to shuffle because I want that card. This is why Raven's Crime is enough. The top-deck feature in this deck is quite impressive when there's a virtual 4-of of every creature(and e-wit to replay exile/within). There are a handful of responses that can handle any permanent and teeg shuts down a lot of spells.
One card I find interesting is Angelsong. It's a good 2 play against harsh aggro decks, and offers cycling if we don't need it.
I did get to replay that actual maverick in legacy deck. Unfortunately for me I refuse to use Sylvan Safekeeper since Im testing to modern. He still won 2-0, but it went to the clock and the 2nd game wasn't over when it did, I was actually coming back a bit. I had 8 life, a 2/4 courser while just acquiring raven's crime for loam. He had a 5/5 terravore(no graveyard) and a stoneforge mystic, a 3/3 beast and 48 life. His jitte was gone, as was batterskull and ooze. I had a 7/7 kotr sitting on the top of my deck. I would have needed mortuary mire here to replay e-wit and whatever. Ironically I never saw a traverse the ulvenwald, and I somehow couldn't get a 2nd forest til turn 10. Still managed to grind it into a turn 15 draw. I probably would have lost anyway, but he literally had nothing to stop me except a couple swords let somewhere.
Just played an elf deck, which is a matchup I wanted to see. He smoked me game one. He caught a power draw on turn 4 or 5, to go along with coat of arms.
It actually ended on like turn 10. I was just toying with him, while he had a wellwisher gaining like 5 life a turn. I attacked with Teeg and handed him a sejiri steppe with kotr. He left.
Didn't get to play the next game though.
Teeg has won me 2 games.
Safe Haven/Reclamation Sage has won me 2 games.
And Courser pretty much won me the other ones.
Played against some kind of discard/seek/castigate deck. Very annoying, but he lost. I was gonna toy with safe haven e-wit traverse loop. lol.
Something different - and i've always loved the ability that lands - as in you can't counter them or respond to them and they are basically there to stay.
I've always loved life from the loam as well.
I really like the one of Teeg as he can win games by himself.
Maybe traverse was the only card we need to push this deck further?
You'd probably want trade routes. And that's a particularly funny card with Skyline Cascade. meloku the clouded mirror is another option that could let u replay cards. It's like the only decent moonfolk out there.
amulet is a very good card. And it should be included in the deck. The deck features a lot of 2 or 3 costed creatures and the loam/cycle lands demand mana constantly. You get to turn 7 or 8 or so and there's less than 10 lands left in the deck, maybe less.
I'm going to test out mortuary mire. Although the deck isn't that great at putting creatures in the yard, its devastating if Eternal Witness finds herself in the graveyard as she's the only way to replay our removal, and any creature card in general. In addition, I'm going to test out Qasali, he demands removal, and we'll have ways of replaying him. If he eats a removal card that's one less card kotr has to face. And its not like he's our only option in blanking problematic a/e.
That's what blue offers though: moonfolk. Returning lands to hand to be replayed. What to cut? Well, definitely not sakura if you use blue.
You could probably make a lot of the 4-of into 3-of and be okay. It is inevitable that I cut hangarback, his defensive ability is slow, and I use him predominantly to enable delirium. There's just more versatile ways.
I might actually cut Sakura, in favor of aggro defense. I would presume modern is more aggro and less combo than legacy. The only deck that beat me was the established maverick legacy deck(it should). I took a draw against an Elf deck, but probably would have lost. I could probably cut an Edge of Autumn.
I prefer Loam to Crucible. It's impossible to remove if you play smart with cycling. The only card that can actually kill it is extirpate. And the deck can win without loam either way. All we really lose is a draw engine and replaying safe haven.
Crucible does add the dimension for sakura at instant speed from anywhere, but that's not worth the trade-off of being susceptible to artifact removal.
Courser, Cycling, Shuffling, and Traverse(Delirium) is not 100% consistent. You can virtually scry 3-5 cards a turn. Sometimes you have to wait a turn for your answer, but adding a 3rd loam/mortuary mire is only going to increase that consistency.
The inherent problem is getting lands off the battlefield somehow to replay them. Put it into hand, graveyard, or library is the answer to unlock sakura-tribe scout. Mistveil Plains: library. Trade Routes: hand. Oh how I miss you Sylvan Safekeeper. This is why I really like Selesnya Sanctuary but thats if I even keep scout. I'm not far from adding Rustic Clachan/Llanowar Reborn. It's not as bad as it appears for KotR and Finks. It's especially good for Finks. Might go 4-3-3 on KotR-Courser-Finks and pop in a some more aggro defense, still. This deck is at least tier-2 mid-late game, and its not finished.
Rustic Clachan is a land we will almost never play, nonetheless it is a powerful card for Finks AND Loam and can boost any other creature if the situation calls for it. This instantly gives KotR +2/+2 btw, not to mention any land he might sac to pull a fetch land.
Llanowar Reborn offers a similar use. powerful on Finks. can boost other creatures. I may have to test between the two as one supports Ruin Ghost, and the other Loam. Ultimately I think Reborn might lose out here, as we probably want to use Ghost for protection. Still lets not forget KotR blocking, and then finding this card for Finks. Both cards obviously have different uses.
Both of these lands are terrific with Finks. We may never be able to fully defend aggro while maintaining an obscene mid/late game, but we can power past it with 3-drops and life gain.
Mortuary Mire offers us a 2nd eternal witness, in every literal fashion. And makes us somewhat impervious to our own dredge and black decks.
Azusa and Ruin Ghost should be relatively blatant in meaning. Azusa for Horizon Canopy when this deck eventually goes modern for me. And Ruin Ghost for Bog, Mire, Steppe, Llanowar.
Aether Vial will probably become a 4 of. The whole creature list is 2 or 3 cmc. It speeds us up AND lets us cheat in a lot of potentially disgusting plays/creatures that want haste for the activated ability. It's arguably the best 1 drop we could ever have.
True to form: Soaring Seacliff, as I really haven't answered the flying problem.
I was leaning towards rustic clachan as well. It costs an extra colorless mana to activate, but its replayable with loam(2, maybe 3) vs. ruin ghost(1) which is just better to use on steppe or mire.
Spellskite is and always has been an awesome card. This deck hates the words exile.
There's a land that gives vigilance. It's very specific but allows KotR to attack and search for a land/defend.
There's only 3 lands that etb tapped, not including rustic as its more in the deck to discard. I think the Vial is the stronger play over Amulet since the deck is heavy on 2-3cmc. With that said, if we used more lands like skyline, seacliff, vastwood, reborn, etc. Then you could make a very strong case that the amulet is worth more, especially if we're changing the creature curve some.
Could probably drop oran-rief and a finks. That would give us 9 tanky 3cmc. That's a reasonable number to have one in opening hand.
There's also a new mythic card in Kaladesh that is just bonkers for courser. Rashmi, Eternities Crafter It will be expensive, and probably win more, and probably more worthy in edh. You can't cheat a creature with Vial in and expect it to trigger but lol's at potentially playing 3 spells and only paying for 1.
Another thing that could be done is Meloku the Clouded Mirror or Stoic Angel and Skyline Cascade There's an inherent missing piece of that cube, but blue AND white have a TON of those. And of course Coralhelm can help you cheat its drawback. Meloku + Skyline is nasty in itself. Once a creature taps from activated ability, or attacking, or a spell---> You can keep that creature tapped forever. the blue version will obviously need 4 amulets. You can do this to multiple creatures every turn if you build around it. And the best part of skyline cascade is that its a strong anti-aggro T2 onward land. And it gets worse for your opponent with stuff like Blind Obedience
There was another thing blue could add to the deck besides moonfolk, I just forgot what it was. It wasn't counterspells, but hey, those are good too.
This deck is a bit of holy grail for me. I've been wanting to get a land/hatebear style together for ages but it never seems to work like I want it.
A couple ideas I have not seen in the thread: Silent Arbiter + Mystifying Maze. Arbiter is pretty sweet at bringing aggro decks to a crawl, obviously better on turn 3 than turn 3. With Maze you have a soft-lock on attackers, downside is that you may trigger ETB effects. This is as close to Maze of Ith as we're going to get in Modern.
Arbiter and Maze just seems so expensive/janky. There's a lot of mana that needs to go to stuff like Life from the Loam, Horizon Canopy, Ruin Ghost, maybe even Safe Haven. Those last two cards are a nightmare for any single-creature based attack, except if they fly.
Courser of Kruphix + Horizon Canopy + Traverse the Ulvenwald (or any shuffling card). This is quietly a very strong top-deck/answer engine at a point in the game where we've presumably removed their biggest threat. The opponent is not quite panicking, but despair is starting to set-in as they realize they don't have enough to get past a KotR, or a finks that just keeps coming back, or a recursive sejiri steppe protecting a chump. This point mid-late, This is the point where the deck is nearly unbeatable. It's a grinder. It doesn't need a quick answer to end the game. It grinds, and it loves to do so.
I've always wanted to make a deck with Glare of Subdual, I just never could. Probably because I love love love green, and am not enthused about every other color. With that said, the current build of the deck is to build up a board of value creatures that want to stick around. GoS might make more sense in a different variation.
Spellskite is a great card for this deck. It fits the curve nicely and could give us some extra protection for star players: KotR, Teeg, Courser. *Cough reprint Crop Rotation / Sylvan Safekeeper / Tranquil Thicket wizards *cough
I may inevitably go with Glittering Wish. I don't want to but it could make a for an enormous toolbox.
I really like Mina and Denn, it does 3 different things the deck wants and is efficient in cost as well(mostly). This could be a 2nd but distinctly different version of Ruin Ghost. And there is value in that against black or pithing needle decks. I also like Flame Jab, and Seal of Fire, as mentioned.
Ghost Quarter actually won me games with just Loam. If they have a lot of non-basic lands which is not uncommon, or use a very specific land for a specific purpose. This card is pretty much good game, provided the grind is going well.
That's what's really neat here. You could forget about the white removal run teeg, and kotr, and be fine with finding white lands with green cards. You don't even have to mana-fix all that much if you stay within green(mostly). You could add red, or blue, or black. Each color has something to offer and you could build a deck that maybe even uses 4 colors.
I like having multiple ways of doing things. Just not sure whats the chink in the chain to remove for spellskite. And some sort of flyer. I just wanna add all the etb lands, like all 5 colors lol.
I'm yet to test the last update changes but here's a look at it.
As you can see, there are 52 slots being used. We have 8 slots to play with.
1. I am not sure of is the correct number of loams to use in the deck. Of course it might vary with those 8 slots, but as it stands the card does not do much early on. We can cast it simply to dredge. Then use Mortuary Mire/Eternal Witness to get a creature back. That just seems painfully inefficient. It's still a nice way to dredge lands into the graveyard. Still as a 2-of, there is no guarantee that we'll see it without some help from courser, even then, it's still random.
2. Another issue that is quite painful is this: Horizon Canopy is a 30 dollar card that is legal in modern. Tranquil Thicket is a nickel card that is not legal in modern. This is absurdly stupid, and I'll explain why:
Canopy pros: Can help fix white mana, AND cycle itself when you want to.
Canopy cons: you have to PLAY it to cycle it.
Thicket pros: I can play any land I want, and cycle as many Thickets as I have in hand.
Thicket cons: Green doesn't need lands that mana-fix... like at all.
Now look at canopy if, AND ONLY IF, your deck is predominantly white: Green might be the best color for card advantage and no worse than 3rd in draw. And it's easily the best color for lands. So why not give white(absolute worst in draw and card advantage) a cycle land... in green. As if white didn't have every advantage except card advantage/draw. What a slap in the face to green players to make it 30$. Why don't you just give green swords to plowshares next? Multi-color cards were the worst thing to ever happen to magic, and it makes it that much harder to balance.
One time, when I was convinced I needed 4 sakura-tribe scouts... I shuffled a Sakura-Tribe Scout off the top of my deck, and guess who popped up next? How unexciting.
Finks likes Safe Haven too. Though yes, Safe Haven seems more SB material.
Crop Rotation is a well-balanced card. It might be obscenely good in legacy. But we don't get cards like Glacial Chasm, Ith, Petrified Field, Karakas, etc. in modern. It's also weak to counterspells.
Sylvan Safekeeper Turns any targeted removal into land destruction seems balanced to me. This + KotR is nearly gg. Add Teeg and it is good game.
Wizards should recognize that KotR is one of the more popular cards today... still. The fact that hundreds of people have tried to apply him to modern through Coralhelm or Haakon is evidence enough.
I want to discuss just how good Edge of Autumn is.
1. Rampant Growth is an okay effect as a turn 2 drop. It can be really good to give us a mana open when we play any 3 drop.
2. But the more important thing is that it allows us to replay any land with loam.
3. Its FREE cycling that not only pumps KotR but can net us a card we're merely looking at with Courser.
I'm almost certainly going to replace Horizon Canopy with 4 Autumn's.
Pro's:
-I can replay any land I want with Loam
-2 extra card slots
Con's:
-No more recursive draw engine that demands a lot, since wizards is being lame with thicket.
I can't believe I missed this:
.
It's probably not game-breaking to have this in opening hand. The implications of this late game are put every land in your graveyard, hand, and library into play. This can be done with KotR and Loam. It also gives us reason to use pseudo-Ith: Skyline Cascade
Aggressive Mining might be okay here. It demands the Scout, sure. but maybe could be good.
Lifespark spellbomb: this is kind of interesting actually. It turns the etb land I want to die into a chump blocker, that might be able to come back with loam next turn. It can cycle, sort of. And it can slow down aggro. Good for delirium too. It's kind of like a beast within to use against beast within
mana seism: remember that jank-ass all lands into play combo? Play something, attack with KotR. Same thing with Lotus Cobra
Nevermaker + Safe Haven= make your opponent punch you in the face.
I might not even use Finks.
If you can't tell I'm trying to get on that Sakura Ghost Loam Cube with hate-lands.
The idea being to have two large toolboxes. And to be able to use them consistently.
Lands
1Sejiri Steppe
1 Safe Haven
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Horizon Canopy
4 [card]Windswept Heath
Creatures
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Kitchen Finks
4 Sakura-Tribe Scout
2 Courser of Kruphix
One card specifically can find both toolboxes:
Alternative: Life from the Loam with Raven's Crime
Alternative: toolboxes have several answers that can shut down many decks like Teeg, Ghost Quarter, Ooze, Reclamation, Safe Haven
4 Sakura-Tribe Scout
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Acidic Slime
1 The Gitrog Monster
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Sylvan Scrying
2 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
Enchantment(5)
4 Vessel of Nascency
1 Spreading Algae
Instant(4)
4 Beast Within
Land(25)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Safe Haven
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
10 Forest
1 Plains
A couple notes:
-There's a numbers change on many cards from original post
-In and Out
Reclamation Sage
Acidic Slime
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Spreading Algae
The Gitrog Monster
Beast Within
First draft of deck complete, will be playtesting soon. Going to take me some time to save up for 4x horizon canopy though :\. No one's selling teh cheaper zendikar version
Not sure what to put into sideboard, but it will probably have something to do with stopping Eldrazi.
I won't be able to test this until next week. I am short a Loam, Ooze, 4x Beast Within, 4x Windswept Heath, and 4x Canopy.
I can get all of it except canopy over the weekend.
I suppose you may be right about Gitrog. I wanted a way to replay Sejiri Steppe. And I can't do that unless I put Sejiri into my yard or hand. I could go for a Moonfolk, or Ruin Ghost, or maybe even trade routes That Gitrog is probably win more, along with these other options.
Yea, I should take Algae out. Acidic Slime can mostly do the same thing.
Safe Haven is a big player here.
- abuses etb like slime, witness, finks.
- chump-blocks like a boss
- great against target removal, and can lessen the blow of mass removal.
Sakura-Tribe Scout can make for an awesome turn 2 that could include ghost quartering, casting and sac'ing vessel, tutoring a Sejiri to protect a sick KotR on turn 3, or casting a 3cmc anti-aggro tank. Teeg, Slime, and Ghost Quarter shut down Tron decks, assuming they resolve.
I see your point though, if I don't have Scout, everything including fulfilling delirium is slow.
I'd like to stick to green as closely as I can. Cheap Self-sacrificing enchantments are tremendous assets for delirium. Seal of Fire is modern, but Seal of Strength isn't? You cannot be serious Wizards!
"Life Crime" is plenty. How can any single card stop KotR with Safe Haven or Sejiri Steppe.
PS: Engineered Explosives? Noose Constrictor?
I have a similar deck in legacy. It uses Crop Rotation and Green Sun's Zenith along with Sylvan Safekeeper. It plays similarly to Ernham Geddon. It works because KotR can outgrow the vast majority of creatures rather quickly... Even Goyf. The deck is mostly green, sans swords and geddon. All 3 of the aforementioned cards are not legal in modern. Nor does modern offer such powerful lands. Still, I think I can come up with a decent enough deck that runs similarly.
Thanks for the advice on cockatrice. I will be playtesting as soon as I download it. I am quite intrigued by Mishra's Bauble, and Nameless Inversion.
Dromoka's Command
I hate to say it but Seal of Fire is absurdly good for delirium. Red has land sac stuff, but I think I might find answers here, especially with cycling:
edge of autumn
deadshot minotaur
sigil of the nayan gods
In legacy I used tranquil thicket. These more or less have the same effect. They don't pump kotr, but they do pump delirium. If I build this properly, I should be able to achieve delirium quickly.
4 Sakura-Tribe Scout
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Acidic Slime
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
Land(24?)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Safe Haven
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
I really like the tech of Lightning Bolt, Seal of Fire, and Mishra's Bauble. I don't have immediate answers for turns 1-3 drops. I have some nice 3 drops but I don't wanna watch KotR die the first turn he sniffs the battlefield.
Courser of Kruphix is no joke on generating card advantage with cycling and Sakura-Tribe Scout. Geier Reach sanitarium works well here to. It may not be that efficient of a land, but it stuffs counterbalance, helps KotR, and helps delirium.
Here's an interesting Turn 1 hand:
Hangarback Walker Seal of Fire Wooded Foothills. Turn 1 delirium.
Mishra's Bauble: It's basically a deck-thinner that helps delirium. Not quite Cycling, but its close, and its free.
Hangarback Walker: You're right, can create card disadvantage. And as you inferred, we don't have enough delirium in the deck to really need delirium that quick.
Chromatic Star: It draws and lets us mana-fix our "one-of" splashes.
Seal of Fire: I really like this card, so much that I want to splash enough red lands to play this turn 1 whenever its in my hand. It prevents creatures with 2 or less toughness from being played(if they're important)
Sigil of the Nayan Gods: This is another cycler. It doesn't add anything to the deck except more cycling with enchantment-delirium. It can still do wonders with Courser.
Edge of Autumn: It can mana-fix, it can cycle, and it can pump KotR, it can sacrifice a land. Cycling can be done at instant speed.
Gather the Pack: This is almost like auto-delirium. But we already have plenty of sorceries.
I bolded the one's I'm leaning towards. I'm certainly going to add a courser, maybe even make him a 4-of.
Teeg is important. The biggest enemy of the deck is Wrath of God and Tron. He stops most planeswalkers as well.
Slime covers a lot of ground for his cost. It covers every permanent but creatures and planeswalkers. It kind of makes sense to use Reclamation Sage instead, but this guy is the exclamation point on Raven's Crime and Loam being enough. (Safe Haven)
I may deck-test Gitrog, I already nabbed a copy of one. I mise as well. Cycling(10) and Courser might be all the card advantage we need. I'm just not overly excited about grim flayer. He's a good card, if we go the fast delirium route, but I'm leaning more towards achieving delirium around turn 3 or 4. And I think your advice helped me get ready to deck-test.
***I will have to deck-test in legacy with Grasslands and Tranquil Thicket. Canopy is absurdly priced(hello cycling), and I am poor, I can't do more than 20 or 30 bucks a week, to get Ooze, a Loam, and the rest.
4 Sakura-Tribe Scout
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Courser of Kruphix
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Acidic Slime
3 Path to Exile
Sorcery 9
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Life from the Loam
2 Edge of Autumn
1 Raven's Crime
Artifact 4
4 Mishra's Bauble
Land 24
4 Windswept Heath
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Safe Haven
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
10 Forest
1 Plains
bauble is too expensive for the moment, as is lightning bolt. Soon though.
The deck is midrange deck, so I need ample aggro protection, which you mentioned.
I found out Sakura-Tribe Scout can't play lands off the top of my deck with courser out. Bummer.
Cycling lands are coupe de grace. I wish they';d reprint Tranquil Thicket for modern, you don't have to play the land to cycle it, unlike canopy.
Also very likely to go with reclamation sage over slime.
I lost to an aggro deck 2-0.
I kept a terrible hand and lost 1-0 against a bringer of the dawn deck.
And I stomped an locus deck.
Either way, i'm probably going to exchange the seals for path to exile, so I don't have to run 4 colors. Although Domri Rade looks particularly fantastic. I have also been using 2 beast within's. It's just extra major problem card removal.
Edge of Autumn became a 4-of. The reason is its good no matter what part of the game. It can mana-fix early on(great since were mostly green). And it can sac sejiri steppe or bojuka bog(and pump kotr). Which is no joke with a loam(practically unkillable, especially with cycling at instant-speed) and sakura(4 of). I forgot to add a swamp to the deck lol. Harrow also makes sense.
I'm likely to add an extra finks, as well(3 courser, 2 finks). That with 4 paths and 2 beast within's, should mostly handle weenie aggro?
One thing I've noticed is Courser and Finks are tremendous anti-tanks. I haven't been able to use the safe haven trickery with finks or e-wit, but I can't wait. I'm deck testing in legacy right now, which gives me access to tranquil paths(canopy), grasslands(windswept), and swords to plowshares(path). All of which have similar counterparts in modern, that I am yet to acquire.
Deck has been a lot of fun to play thus far.
Though I have had much success with it (3-0) in matches, I am nonetheless not convinced I am anywhere near an optimal deck.
I played against a mid-range Boros metalcraft deck. I achieved Delirium rather early and was fortunate to find a Loam with all that shuffling going on. Used Ghost Quarter, Reclamation Sage, and Safe Haven to leave him with only mountains and a couple creatures. He quit when I Swords his legendary 5/4 first strike. Unfortunately I never got to use Raven's Crime, but that was next. A really nice drawing sequence in this one.
I played against a Death Shadow/Mother of Runes deck. Unfortunately Mother of Runes can't protect against two colors(Swords/Within). I popped out a Teeg when he hit 4 or 5 mana, and just developed my board at will to take victory.
The last deck I played against tried to establish a Platinum Angel with some indestructible artifact equipment to give it indestructible. Suffice to say he never got it, in fact he was never even able to attach it.
None of these decks seemed competitive except the shadow one.
Here is the current decklist I am using, and I still might completely flip it as I agree with some of your concerns.
4 Sakura-Tribe Scout
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Courser of Kruphix
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Beast Within
Sorcery 11
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Edge of Autumn
2 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
Artifact Creature 3
3 Hangarback Walker
Land 24
4 Grasslands
4 Tranquil Thicket
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Safe Haven
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
9 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
The sigil was flat out removed. Cycling is nice, but I have cards that cycle lands into the graveyard. One of them is a land and the other gives delirium a sorcery and a land.
Edge of Autumn can actually search for a 5th land and that is bigger than it might appear.
Reclamation Sage is pretty much the same thing as Teeg, just no exalted. I don't need a 2nd one really, especially IF I continue to use Beast Within(2). You could make a strong case that Qasali is the better card, it prevents people from playing good enchantments. But there's no surprise effect. I'm on the fence on this one, because I really haven't used Safe Haven too much.
Kessig Wolf Run requires Retreat to Coralhelm. Just not into infinite that's been done before.
This deck doesn't need more than 5 or 6 mana to do pretty much anything it wants. And in the games I've played I've never really had more than 6-8 mana, and that's on the high side.
Glittering Wish: Dear Diary on toolbox. Wow that could be a great card, that simply extends our toolbox. Definitely worth a 2-of.
The thing about Scout is it's not a necessary card with Tranquil Thicket. Still, when I get Horizon Canopy, they almost demand it. Or some other additional lands play. It's still a nice way to cheat out a Ghost Quarter or an Urborg or Safe Haven without necessarily slowing me down. But I'm not completely sold on Safe Haven probably because I'm not sure if they actually have removal. So I'm almost forced to save 2 mana, which is a pain in the butt. On top of this, if I can't play multiple lands in a turn, the deck can stall on being able to do more than 1 thing in a turn if I'm relegated to this "trick".
This Maverick deck was rumored to remain in legacy because cards like Maze of Ith Rishadan Port Petrified Field Karakas can practically win a game on their own.
I did face a Maverick deck when I was using seal of fire instead of exile. I lost 0-2, but held my own for a long time in both. I didn't have exiles, or Sylvan Safekeeper or better fetches than Grasslands. I didn't have Titania, Protector of Argoth or any of those wacko lands, but was still able make the the two game contest worth about 30 turns. That's saying something when a modern deck without exile, can endure a mirror-match against a legacy deck.
I have been disappointed with lackluster competition after I changed the deck to its current state after that mirror.
Things this deck is good at:
-Stalling/Limiting Damage
-Searching/Drawing/Top-decking
-Versatility
If I can't overpower you with KotR, I can remove your biggest threat, and ride the card advantage(and kotr) to victory. I don't think the deck will do to well against Zoo, but it has an average matchup against other types of aggro decks. I haven't seen a counterspell deck, and no I don't look forward to it. Any deck that tries to abuse some land, graveyard, or mana acceleration is going to get destroyed. But hey, haven't even made a sideboard yet. Exile and graveyard hate can also be trouble. What do you think about Ruin Ghost. There's also zero anti-air.
PS: I don't necessarily need Hangarback Walker. He's mostly tapped when I actually play him, and is pretty much just a free source of artifact/creature for delirium. I have noticed that I have little trouble getting lands, sorceries, and instants into the graveyard. Creatures have been a whole different story. Oh Bauble.
Safe Haven + Reclamation has already won me a contest. The deck is now 5-0 in a combination of single games and best of 3 matches.
Still, saving 2 mana for haven is exhausting. And I'm not far from replacing safe haven with mortuary mire. I realize top of the deck is not that strong but the deck has plenty of cycling. This would also make the deck more resilient to self-dredge. Our best sink is cycling.
One of the real strengths of the deck, which you touched on a bit is courser of kruphix. We can shuffle top-deck with any search card(8) or dredge. It's an inherent scry, and because the deck is no stranger to cycling it hardly ever presents the problem of--- I don't want to shuffle because I want that card. This is why Raven's Crime is enough. The top-deck feature in this deck is quite impressive when there's a virtual 4-of of every creature(and e-wit to replay exile/within). There are a handful of responses that can handle any permanent and teeg shuts down a lot of spells.
One card I find interesting is Angelsong. It's a good 2 play against harsh aggro decks, and offers cycling if we don't need it.
I hope wizards reprints Seal of Strength and Tranquil Thicket.
I did get to replay that actual maverick in legacy deck. Unfortunately for me I refuse to use Sylvan Safekeeper since Im testing to modern. He still won 2-0, but it went to the clock and the 2nd game wasn't over when it did, I was actually coming back a bit. I had 8 life, a 2/4 courser while just acquiring raven's crime for loam. He had a 5/5 terravore(no graveyard) and a stoneforge mystic, a 3/3 beast and 48 life. His jitte was gone, as was batterskull and ooze. I had a 7/7 kotr sitting on the top of my deck. I would have needed mortuary mire here to replay e-wit and whatever. Ironically I never saw a traverse the ulvenwald, and I somehow couldn't get a 2nd forest til turn 10. Still managed to grind it into a turn 15 draw. I probably would have lost anyway, but he literally had nothing to stop me except a couple swords let somewhere.
Game two ended on turn 3: Gaddock Teeg
awkward, but his deck was built on recycle abundance coat of arms and the haste shroud boots.
It actually ended on like turn 10. I was just toying with him, while he had a wellwisher gaining like 5 life a turn. I attacked with Teeg and handed him a sejiri steppe with kotr. He left.
Didn't get to play the next game though.
Teeg has won me 2 games.
Safe Haven/Reclamation Sage has won me 2 games.
And Courser pretty much won me the other ones.
Played against some kind of discard/seek/castigate deck. Very annoying, but he lost. I was gonna toy with safe haven e-wit traverse loop. lol.
Something different - and i've always loved the ability that lands - as in you can't counter them or respond to them and they are basically there to stay.
I've always loved life from the loam as well.
I really like the one of Teeg as he can win games by himself.
Maybe traverse was the only card we need to push this deck further?
What other lands could we bring to the table?
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Arena
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Buried Ruin
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Crypt of Agadeem
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Drownyard Temple
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Fertile Thicket
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Gavony Township
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai
1 Grim Backwoods
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Hanweir Garrison
1 Hanweir, the Writhing Township
1 Haunted Fengraf
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Llanowar Reborn
1 Madblind Mountain
1 Magosi, the Waterveil
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Mirrorpool
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Moonring Island
1 Mortuary Mire
1 Murmuring Bosk
1 Nephalia Academy
1 Nivix, Aerie of the Firemind
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Rustic Clachan
1 Safe Haven
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Seraph Sanctuary
1 Skarrg, the Rage Pits
1 Skyline Cascade
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Svogthos, the Restless Tomb
1 Swarmyard
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Tolaria West
1 Unstable Frontier
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Valakut the Molten Pinnacle
1 Vesuva
1 Windswept Heath
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Safe Haven
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Windswept Heath
1 Fertile Thicket
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Llanowar Reborn
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Mortuary Mire
1 Rustic Clachan
You'd probably want trade routes. And that's a particularly funny card with Skyline Cascade. meloku the clouded mirror is another option that could let u replay cards. It's like the only decent moonfolk out there.
I'm going to test out mortuary mire. Although the deck isn't that great at putting creatures in the yard, its devastating if Eternal Witness finds herself in the graveyard as she's the only way to replay our removal, and any creature card in general. In addition, I'm going to test out Qasali, he demands removal, and we'll have ways of replaying him. If he eats a removal card that's one less card kotr has to face. And its not like he's our only option in blanking problematic a/e.
That's what blue offers though: moonfolk. Returning lands to hand to be replayed. What to cut? Well, definitely not sakura if you use blue.
You could probably make a lot of the 4-of into 3-of and be okay. It is inevitable that I cut hangarback, his defensive ability is slow, and I use him predominantly to enable delirium. There's just more versatile ways.
I might actually cut Sakura, in favor of aggro defense. I would presume modern is more aggro and less combo than legacy. The only deck that beat me was the established maverick legacy deck(it should). I took a draw against an Elf deck, but probably would have lost. I could probably cut an Edge of Autumn.
I prefer Loam to Crucible. It's impossible to remove if you play smart with cycling. The only card that can actually kill it is extirpate. And the deck can win without loam either way. All we really lose is a draw engine and replaying safe haven.
Crucible does add the dimension for sakura at instant speed from anywhere, but that's not worth the trade-off of being susceptible to artifact removal.
Courser, Cycling, Shuffling, and Traverse(Delirium) is not 100% consistent. You can virtually scry 3-5 cards a turn. Sometimes you have to wait a turn for your answer, but adding a 3rd loam/mortuary mire is only going to increase that consistency.
The inherent problem is getting lands off the battlefield somehow to replay them. Put it into hand, graveyard, or library is the answer to unlock sakura-tribe scout. Mistveil Plains: library. Trade Routes: hand. Oh how I miss you Sylvan Safekeeper. This is why I really like Selesnya Sanctuary but thats if I even keep scout. I'm not far from adding Rustic Clachan/Llanowar Reborn. It's not as bad as it appears for KotR and Finks. It's especially good for Finks. Might go 4-3-3 on KotR-Courser-Finks and pop in a some more aggro defense, still. This deck is at least tier-2 mid-late game, and its not finished.
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Courser of Kruphix
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Ruin Ghost
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Path to Exile
2 Beast Within
Sorcery(10)
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Edge of Autumn
2 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
Artifacts(3)
3 Aether Vial
Land(25)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Rustic Clachan
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1 Mortuary Mire
9 Forest
1 Plains
You'll notice 3 distinct lands added:
Rustic Clachan
Llanowar Reborn
Mortuary Mire
As well as some creature changes:
+2 Finks
changing Reclamation Sage to Qasali Pridemage
Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Ruin Ghost
and Aether Vial...
Rustic Clachan is a land we will almost never play, nonetheless it is a powerful card for Finks AND Loam and can boost any other creature if the situation calls for it. This instantly gives KotR +2/+2 btw, not to mention any land he might sac to pull a fetch land.
Llanowar Reborn offers a similar use. powerful on Finks. can boost other creatures. I may have to test between the two as one supports Ruin Ghost, and the other Loam. Ultimately I think Reborn might lose out here, as we probably want to use Ghost for protection. Still lets not forget KotR blocking, and then finding this card for Finks. Both cards obviously have different uses.
Both of these lands are terrific with Finks. We may never be able to fully defend aggro while maintaining an obscene mid/late game, but we can power past it with 3-drops and life gain.
Mortuary Mire offers us a 2nd eternal witness, in every literal fashion. And makes us somewhat impervious to our own dredge and black decks.
Azusa and Ruin Ghost should be relatively blatant in meaning. Azusa for Horizon Canopy when this deck eventually goes modern for me. And Ruin Ghost for Bog, Mire, Steppe, Llanowar.
Aether Vial will probably become a 4 of. The whole creature list is 2 or 3 cmc. It speeds us up AND lets us cheat in a lot of potentially disgusting plays/creatures that want haste for the activated ability. It's arguably the best 1 drop we could ever have.
True to form: Soaring Seacliff, as I really haven't answered the flying problem.
I forgot Oran-Rief, the Vastwood and I recomend bant over sultai. Gitrog is nice, but the only black you really need is raven's crime.: Novijen, heart of Progress
Spellskite is and always has been an awesome card. This deck hates the words exile.
There's a land that gives vigilance. It's very specific but allows KotR to attack and search for a land/defend.
There's only 3 lands that etb tapped, not including rustic as its more in the deck to discard. I think the Vial is the stronger play over Amulet since the deck is heavy on 2-3cmc. With that said, if we used more lands like skyline, seacliff, vastwood, reborn, etc. Then you could make a very strong case that the amulet is worth more, especially if we're changing the creature curve some.
Could probably drop oran-rief and a finks. That would give us 9 tanky 3cmc. That's a reasonable number to have one in opening hand.
There's also a new mythic card in Kaladesh that is just bonkers for courser. Rashmi, Eternities Crafter It will be expensive, and probably win more, and probably more worthy in edh. You can't cheat a creature with Vial in and expect it to trigger but lol's at potentially playing 3 spells and only paying for 1.
Another thing that could be done is Meloku the Clouded Mirror or Stoic Angel and Skyline Cascade There's an inherent missing piece of that cube, but blue AND white have a TON of those. And of course Coralhelm can help you cheat its drawback. Meloku + Skyline is nasty in itself. Once a creature taps from activated ability, or attacking, or a spell---> You can keep that creature tapped forever. the blue version will obviously need 4 amulets. You can do this to multiple creatures every turn if you build around it. And the best part of skyline cascade is that its a strong anti-aggro T2 onward land. And it gets worse for your opponent with stuff like Blind Obedience
There was another thing blue could add to the deck besides moonfolk, I just forgot what it was. It wasn't counterspells, but hey, those are good too.
A couple ideas I have not seen in the thread:
Silent Arbiter + Mystifying Maze. Arbiter is pretty sweet at bringing aggro decks to a crawl, obviously better on turn 3 than turn 3. With Maze you have a soft-lock on attackers, downside is that you may trigger ETB effects. This is as close to Maze of Ith as we're going to get in Modern.
Glare of Subdual + Kher Keep or Vitu-Ghazi, The City Tree. Alternatively Elspeth, Knight Errant or Nissa, Voice of Zendikar. I like Kher Keep because it's very cheap to make tokens. Glare is a powerful board control card that does a lot beyond just controlling the attack step. It can shut down Kiki combos, stop a cheated in Emrakul from attacking and other sweet corner cases.
In building this deck I would run 4x Spellskite. It does everything the deck wants: stalls, protects hate pieces, counts for 2 towards Delirium.
Worm Harvest is a great finisher card, dredges well and supports other cards like Glare of Subdual.
Glittering Wish is a sweet tutor card that does not require Delirium. There are an obscene number of excellent targets including creatures like Gaddock Teeg, Qasali Pridemage and Knight of the Reliquary.
Mina and Denn, Wildborn are a more resilient Azusa that recycles your ETB lands and tramples Knight.
I personally would not splash blue unless I was playing Retreat to Coralhelm but would choose between Red, Black or just straight GW.
Black gives: Raven's Crime, Urborg, Blighted Fen, Abrupt Decay
Red gives: Flame Jab, Kessig Wolf-Run, Kher Keep, Mina and Denn, Firespout.
If you just go with GW you get to run more cards like Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge which seem like a very strong part of the strategy.
Anyways. I'm working on a list to post. Love that this thread is alive!
Courser of Kruphix + Horizon Canopy + Traverse the Ulvenwald (or any shuffling card). This is quietly a very strong top-deck/answer engine at a point in the game where we've presumably removed their biggest threat. The opponent is not quite panicking, but despair is starting to set-in as they realize they don't have enough to get past a KotR, or a finks that just keeps coming back, or a recursive sejiri steppe protecting a chump. This point mid-late, This is the point where the deck is nearly unbeatable. It's a grinder. It doesn't need a quick answer to end the game. It grinds, and it loves to do so.
I've always wanted to make a deck with Glare of Subdual, I just never could. Probably because I love love love green, and am not enthused about every other color. With that said, the current build of the deck is to build up a board of value creatures that want to stick around. GoS might make more sense in a different variation.
Spellskite is a great card for this deck. It fits the curve nicely and could give us some extra protection for star players: KotR, Teeg, Courser. *Cough reprint Crop Rotation / Sylvan Safekeeper / Tranquil Thicket wizards *cough
I may inevitably go with Glittering Wish. I don't want to but it could make a for an enormous toolbox.
I really like Mina and Denn, it does 3 different things the deck wants and is efficient in cost as well(mostly). This could be a 2nd but distinctly different version of Ruin Ghost. And there is value in that against black or pithing needle decks. I also like Flame Jab, and Seal of Fire, as mentioned.
Ghost Quarter actually won me games with just Loam. If they have a lot of non-basic lands which is not uncommon, or use a very specific land for a specific purpose. This card is pretty much good game, provided the grind is going well.
That's what's really neat here. You could forget about the white removal run teeg, and kotr, and be fine with finding white lands with green cards. You don't even have to mana-fix all that much if you stay within green(mostly). You could add red, or blue, or black. Each color has something to offer and you could build a deck that maybe even uses 4 colors.
I'm still leaning towards GW with Raven's Crime.
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Courser of Kruphix
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Ruin Ghost
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Path to Exile
2 Beast Within
Sorcery(10)
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Edge of Autumn
2 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
Artifacts(4)
4 Aether Vial
Land(24)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Rustic Clachan
1 Mortuary Mire
9 Forest
1 Plains
The big debate I'm torturing myself with is Safe Haven vs. Rustic Clachan.
I like having multiple ways of doing things. Just not sure whats the chink in the chain to remove for spellskite. And some sort of flyer. I just wanna add all the etb lands, like all 5 colors lol.
I'm yet to test the last update changes but here's a look at it.
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Courser of Kruphix
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Ruin Ghost
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Path to Exile
2 Beast Within
Sorcery(8)
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Edge of Autumn
2 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
Land(24)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Rustic Clachan
1 Mortuary Mire
9 Forest
1 Plains
As you can see, there are 52 slots being used. We have 8 slots to play with.
1. I am not sure of is the correct number of loams to use in the deck. Of course it might vary with those 8 slots, but as it stands the card does not do much early on. We can cast it simply to dredge. Then use Mortuary Mire/Eternal Witness to get a creature back. That just seems painfully inefficient. It's still a nice way to dredge lands into the graveyard. Still as a 2-of, there is no guarantee that we'll see it without some help from courser, even then, it's still random.
2. Another issue that is quite painful is this: Horizon Canopy is a 30 dollar card that is legal in modern. Tranquil Thicket is a nickel card that is not legal in modern. This is absurdly stupid, and I'll explain why:
Canopy pros: Can help fix white mana, AND cycle itself when you want to.
Canopy cons: you have to PLAY it to cycle it.
Thicket pros: I can play any land I want, and cycle as many Thickets as I have in hand.
Thicket cons: Green doesn't need lands that mana-fix... like at all.
Now look at canopy if, AND ONLY IF, your deck is predominantly white: Green might be the best color for card advantage and no worse than 3rd in draw. And it's easily the best color for lands. So why not give white(absolute worst in draw and card advantage) a cycle land... in green. As if white didn't have every advantage except card advantage/draw. What a slap in the face to green players to make it 30$. Why don't you just give green swords to plowshares next? Multi-color cards were the worst thing to ever happen to magic, and it makes it that much harder to balance.
One time, when I was convinced I needed 4 sakura-tribe scouts... I shuffled a Sakura-Tribe Scout off the top of my deck, and guess who popped up next? How unexciting.
Crop Rotation is a well-balanced card. It might be obscenely good in legacy. But we don't get cards like Glacial Chasm, Ith, Petrified Field, Karakas, etc. in modern. It's also weak to counterspells.
Sylvan Safekeeper Turns any targeted removal into land destruction seems balanced to me. This + KotR is nearly gg. Add Teeg and it is good game.
Wizards should recognize that KotR is one of the more popular cards today... still. The fact that hundreds of people have tried to apply him to modern through Coralhelm or Haakon is evidence enough.
I want to discuss just how good Edge of Autumn is.
1. Rampant Growth is an okay effect as a turn 2 drop. It can be really good to give us a mana open when we play any 3 drop.
2. But the more important thing is that it allows us to replay any land with loam.
3. Its FREE cycling that not only pumps KotR but can net us a card we're merely looking at with Courser.
I'm almost certainly going to replace Horizon Canopy with 4 Autumn's.
Pro's:
-I can replay any land I want with Loam
-2 extra card slots
Con's:
-No more recursive draw engine that demands a lot, since wizards is being lame with thicket.
I can't believe I missed this:
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It's probably not game-breaking to have this in opening hand. The implications of this late game are put every land in your graveyard, hand, and library into play. This can be done with KotR and Loam. It also gives us reason to use pseudo-Ith: Skyline Cascade
Aggressive Mining might be okay here. It demands the Scout, sure. but maybe could be good.
Goblin Razerunners hmmm
Hammer of purphoros
Harrow Well, it pays for a Loam.
Lesser Gargadon
Lifespark spellbomb: this is kind of interesting actually. It turns the etb land I want to die into a chump blocker, that might be able to come back with loam next turn. It can cycle, sort of. And it can slow down aggro. Good for delirium too. It's kind of like a beast within to use against beast within
mana seism: remember that jank-ass all lands into play combo? Play something, attack with KotR. Same thing with Lotus Cobra
Nevermaker + Safe Haven= make your opponent punch you in the face.
I might not even use Finks.
If you can't tell I'm trying to get on that Sakura Ghost Loam Cube with hate-lands.