Just want to state that nobody should feel afraid of throwing out a brew because they think it might be bad or people will tear it apart. We're brewing here, so all ideas are welcome.
I haven't tested yet but this is the direction I want to take the deck. I want to fit bauble or probe in, but I can't figure out want to remove. Mana leak could be another catch all, like maelstrom pulse.
I really like Bug colors but would this deck be better/more consistent if it was just B/G? Thought Scour is a great card for the deck to be sure, but most of the payoffs and enablers are G/B and there seems to be a lot of other ways to get cards into the yard. If blue is going to end up being a splash most of the time maybe we just go golgari to make the mana base easier/decrease any bloodmoon impact? I like the BUG version I am just curious as to people's thoughts
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I'm very interested in this archetype. However, two things come to mind for me:
1) I'm very much an anti-Goyf person. Don't get me wrong; I think it's an excellent card and one of the best creatures ever printed, but I also think it's a ******* insult to the playerbase that a beatstick is a $100+ card. Therefore, I don't play Goyf in protest, which probably sounds silly but whatever.
2) I'm very much concerned that this deck loses to itself against... Goyf. The reason is that you're making opposing Goyfs enormous as well, and if they're packing removal to clear out yours and manage to keep theirs sticking around then you're severely outclassed with the creatures you have left.
That said, I'm probably just being stupid and will not be offended should I be flagrantly ignored and mocked.
I'm going to be keeping an eye on this thread for sure. I so wish DRS was legal in the format, because I think it would make this deck even more interesting.
One card I haven't seen mentioned yet (though I'm on my phone so I could have missed it) that I feel could maybe have a home as a 1 or 2 of is Forbidden Alchemy. If you need an answer late game it can help dig and can provide Delerium at instant speed if necessary. Flashback is relevant as well.
I have been working on a B/G rock style deck that incorporates Delirium to turn on Traverse the Ulvanwald for a while. Seems like the new set gives it some potential upgrades.
Grim Flayer seems very interesting. Helps enable Delirium and works well with Bob a Courser to filter draws.
Must answer Creatures like Bob and Flayer get into your yard early, fetches, targeted discard for Sorcery, and flexible removal like Abrupt Decay, Dismember,go for the throat help ge Instants into t graveyard naturally. Course of Kruphix is another good one. Having a good mix of card types really helps.
I'm very interested in this archetype. However, two things come to mind for me:
1) I'm very much an anti-Goyf person. Don't get me wrong; I think it's an excellent card and one of the best creatures ever printed, but I also think it's a ******* insult to the playerbase that a beatstick is a $100+ card. Therefore, I don't play Goyf in protest, which probably sounds silly but whatever.
2) I'm very much concerned that this deck loses to itself against... Goyf. The reason is that you're making opposing Goyfs enormous as well, and if they're packing removal to clear out yours and manage to keep theirs sticking around then you're severely outclassed with the creatures you have left.
That said, I'm probably just being stupid and will not be offended should I be flagrantly ignored and mocked.
I'm going to be keeping an eye on this thread for sure. I so wish DRS was legal in the format, because I think it would make this deck even more interesting.
One card I haven't seen mentioned yet (though I'm on my phone so I could have missed it) that I feel could maybe have a home as a 1 or 2 of is Forbidden Alchemy. If you need an answer late game it can help dig and can provide Delerium at instant speed if necessary. Flashback is relevant as well.
I don't begrudge anybody who doesn't want to play goyf because of its price. It's understandable. But in BG/x Delirium builds, which is the point of this thread, 'goyf seems like an auto-include because he'll naturally benefit from the attempt to get Delirium online. He's like the best Delirium card in Modern even without having the keyword. I think a build without 'goyf will have to either prove why it's better without him or simply say "goyf would be better than X but I'm including X instead."
Regarding the deck losing to 'goyf, Abrupt Decay will almost certainly be in most builds and Darkblast and Disfigure both help win goyf vs goyf fights.
One great delirium enabler that no one is suggesting is Architects of will. If you have a dominant board you can play them to control your opponents next draws
I think Architects is a great idea actually. With 4 of those and the intention of always just being 1 mana draw 1 (at instant speed) we're basically left with a 56 card deck, and it's correctly identified as another great Delirium enabler as it has 2 card types. Great find. If you add 4 Gitaxian Probe and 4 Mishra's Bauble then all of a sudden you have a 48 card deck, which starts to get super consistent.
EDIT: Actually if you think about it, for this kind of deck Architects is a functional copies 5-8 of Thought Scour but is guaranteed to dump 2 distinct card types in the yard. I'm really liking it.
One great delirium enabler that no one is suggesting is Architects of will. If you have a dominant board you can play them to control your opponents next draws
I think Architects is a great idea actually. With 4 of those and the intention of always just being 1 mana draw 1 (at instant speed) we're basically left with a 56 card deck, and it's correctly identified as another great Delirium enabler as it has 2 card types. Great find. If you add 4 Gitaxian Probe and 4 Mishra's Bauble then all of a sudden you have a 48 card deck, which starts to get super consistent.
EDIT: Actually if you think about it, for this kind of deck Architects is a functional copies 5-8 of Thought Scour but is guaranteed to dump 2 distinct card types in the yard. I'm really liking it.
Yeah I think I like the idea of Architect of Will as well. I'm going to try 3 copies in my list.
Oh for sure but if it's a question about a 1 drop with Deathtouch that can trade with a Goyf or Angler then the list is rather short. Gnarlwood is actually probably as good as it gets.
There's also Ruthless Ripper, which is strictly better than Typhoid Rats, at least. It can be used late game as a mini bolt to the face.
this is what I have thrown together so far with this idea in mind. I feel the new liliana might be good in this type of deck as well. We really just want one of each type in our graveyard so we can use the scooze and jace to cherry pick some of the more useful things we dump into our yard.
Clearly needs a better mana base
Maybe less gurmag angler and murderous cut once Grim Flayer hits, I would like to try him.
I haven't tested yet but this is the direction I want to take the deck. I want to fit bauble or probe in, but I can't figure out want to remove. Mana leak could be another catch all, like maelstrom pulse.
No IoK maindeck? Or is Whispers + IoK too much in your opinion?
I really like Bug colors but would this deck be better/more consistent if it was just B/G? Thought Scour is a great card for the deck to be sure, but most of the payoffs and enablers are G/B and there seems to be a lot of other ways to get cards into the yard. If blue is going to end up being a splash most of the time maybe we just go golgari to make the mana base easier/decrease any bloodmoon impact? I like the BUG version I am just curious as to people's thoughts
I agree.
Here is my updated Golgari Delirium build idea:
Oh for sure but if it's a question about a 1 drop with Deathtouch that can trade with a Goyf or Angler then the list is rather short. Gnarlwood is actually probably as good as it gets.
There's also Ruthless Ripper, which is strictly better than Typhoid Rats, at least. It can be used late game as a mini bolt to the face.
There you go. Sadly, this whole category of card has never been good enough for Modern. We'll see if Gnarlwood Dryad gets there but I doubt it. Doesn't look like we have a good analogy though so perhaps.
For those who have mentioned not wanting to splash for blue - Grisly Salvage is almost certainly the enabler of choice, but unfortunately BUG is VERY crowded at the 2 drop spot so that needs to be considered.
But then again, Turn 1 fetch, cycle Architects at EOT their turn puts 3 types into the yard. If we want a turn 2 Delirium Whispers that'll require another type, which Probe could have gotten us without spending mana. Turn 1 Thought Scour or Turn 1 Darkblast, dredge it Turn 2 can still get us there, though.
I haven't tested yet but this is the direction I want to take the deck. I want to fit bauble or probe in, but I can't figure out want to remove. Mana leak could be another catch all, like maelstrom pulse.
No IoK maindeck? Or is Whispers + IoK too much in your opinion?
I agree with what others have states that there is a threshhold for too much discard maindeck. A lot of this changes based on what liliana you run, I suppose, but I can't really see running 4 whisper, 3-4 liliana, and then more discard on top of that. Thought scour really takes that spot on the curve.
With kaladesh being an artifact plane, I am REALLY hoping for a baleful strix reprint, though it is probably too good for standard.
If I run a deck with Bitterblossom does that mean I need to swap my Theros Thoughtseizes for Morningtide ones to be the Faerie art? Decisions, decisions...
If I run a deck with Bitterblossom does that mean I need to swap my Theros Thoughtseizes for Morningtide ones to be the Faerie art? Decisions, decisions...
Hi! I've been playing RUG Delirium for the past 3 months, and since I'm probably one of the people who has spent more time refining this type of deck, let me offer my input.
As enablers go, Tarfire is by far the best one and what makes RUG good. Bauble is excellent too, ofc. I don't really like thought scour because it's very unreliable (sometimes you mill 2 types, sometimes 2 instants - there's no way of knowing) and makes the deck a bit unstable. Gitaxian Probe is less explosive but 100% surely puts a sorcery in the yard for free.
Traverse can be a grindy card, but it is also brutal for setting up Erayo, Soratami Ascendant - I'll say it again, Erayo is probably the BIGGEST Traverse payoff since you can fetch it whenever you want to and flip it with some Baubles/Probes as early as T3. That is GG against most non-Decay decks.
Since we don't have Tarfire in BUG, the next best thing is Architects of will, for 1 mana you put an artifact and creature in the yard and draw a card.
IMO it's also important that Whispers can be useful a bit later in the game. T2 Hymn to Tourach is backbreaking, but 3 Vapor Snags help keep up the tempo-ish plan and Whispers can be used to discard the returned creatures, essentially also "killing" them and not only gaining tempo. It's useful to save your creatures or bounce Snaps too, ofc.
With all this in mind, here's what I drafted. Looks pretty solid!:
Hi! I've been playing RUG Delirium for the past 3 months, and since I'm probably one of the people who has spent more time refining this type of deck, let me offer my input.
As enablers go, Tarfire is by far the best one and what makes RUG good. Bauble is excellent too, ofc. I don't really like thought scour because it's very unreliable (sometimes you mill 2 types, sometimes 2 instants - there's no way of knowing) and makes the deck a bit unstable. Gitaxian Probe is less explosive but 100% surely puts a sorcery in the yard for free.
Traverse can be a grindy card, but it is also brutal for setting up Erayo, Soratami Ascendant - I'll say it again, Erayo is probably the BIGGEST Traverse payoff since you can fetch it whenever you want to and flip it with some Baubles/Probes as early as T3. That is GG against most non-Decay decks.
Since we don't have Tarfire in BUG, the next best thing is Architects of will, for 1 mana you put an artifact and creature in the yard and draw a card.
IMO it's also important that Whispers can be useful a bit later in the game. T2 Hymn to Tourach is backbreaking, but 3 Vapor Snags help keep up the tempo-ish plan and Whispers can be used to discard the returned creatures, essentially also "killing" them and not only gaining tempo. It's useful to save your creatures or bounce Snaps too, ofc.
With all this in mind, here's what I drafted. Looks pretty solid!:
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
4 grim flayer
3 dark confidant
2 jace, Vryn's prodigy
2 courser of kruphix
3 liliana (can't decide which one)
3 bitterblossom
4 thought scour
4 whispers of emrakul
3 abrupt decay
2 disfigure
2 mana leak
I haven't tested yet but this is the direction I want to take the deck. I want to fit bauble or probe in, but I can't figure out want to remove. Mana leak could be another catch all, like maelstrom pulse.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
1) I'm very much an anti-Goyf person. Don't get me wrong; I think it's an excellent card and one of the best creatures ever printed, but I also think it's a ******* insult to the playerbase that a beatstick is a $100+ card. Therefore, I don't play Goyf in protest, which probably sounds silly but whatever.
2) I'm very much concerned that this deck loses to itself against... Goyf. The reason is that you're making opposing Goyfs enormous as well, and if they're packing removal to clear out yours and manage to keep theirs sticking around then you're severely outclassed with the creatures you have left.
That said, I'm probably just being stupid and will not be offended should I be flagrantly ignored and mocked.
I'm going to be keeping an eye on this thread for sure. I so wish DRS was legal in the format, because I think it would make this deck even more interesting.
One card I haven't seen mentioned yet (though I'm on my phone so I could have missed it) that I feel could maybe have a home as a 1 or 2 of is Forbidden Alchemy. If you need an answer late game it can help dig and can provide Delerium at instant speed if necessary. Flashback is relevant as well.
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Grim Flayer seems very interesting. Helps enable Delirium and works well with Bob a Courser to filter draws.
Must answer Creatures like Bob and Flayer get into your yard early, fetches, targeted discard for Sorcery, and flexible removal like Abrupt Decay, Dismember,go for the throat help ge Instants into t graveyard naturally. Course of Kruphix is another good one. Having a good mix of card types really helps.
Regarding the deck losing to 'goyf, Abrupt Decay will almost certainly be in most builds and Darkblast and Disfigure both help win goyf vs goyf fights.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Yeah I'm not too keen on Satyr, but I'm a fan of thought scour.
EDIT: Actually if you think about it, for this kind of deck Architects is a functional copies 5-8 of Thought Scour but is guaranteed to dump 2 distinct card types in the yard. I'm really liking it.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Yeah I think I like the idea of Architect of Will as well. I'm going to try 3 copies in my list.
There's also Ruthless Ripper, which is strictly better than Typhoid Rats, at least. It can be used late game as a mini bolt to the face.
this is what I have thrown together so far with this idea in mind. I feel the new liliana might be good in this type of deck as well. We really just want one of each type in our graveyard so we can use the scooze and jace to cherry pick some of the more useful things we dump into our yard.
Clearly needs a better mana base
Maybe less gurmag angler and murderous cut once Grim Flayer hits, I would like to try him.
No IoK maindeck? Or is Whispers + IoK too much in your opinion?
What do you think about Dead Weight and Nameless Inversion as removal that fuels delirium ?
Also what about Hangarback Walker ?
It can be cast for 0 for early delirium or hardcast later in the game as a big creature that turns into thopters.
I agree.
Here is my updated Golgari Delirium build idea:
4x Gnarlwood Dryad
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Grim Flayer
2x Eternal Witness
4x Architects of Will
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3x Autumnal Gloom
Planeswalker (2)
2x Liliana of the Veil
Sorcery (8)
2x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
Instant (8)
4x Abrupt Decay
4x Grisly Salvage
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Swamp
2x Forest
tarfire is red, but it might be better than disfigure
There you go. Sadly, this whole category of card has never been good enough for Modern. We'll see if Gnarlwood Dryad gets there but I doubt it. Doesn't look like we have a good analogy though so perhaps.
4 Architects of Will
3 Courser of Kruphix
4 Grim Flayer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Life from the Loam
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Whispers of Emrakul
1 Darkblast
4 Thought Scour
3 Bitterblossom
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Island
3 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
I kind of want to drop the Probes for more removal or some counters or discard. So maybe something like this:
4 Architects of Will
3 Courser of Kruphix
4 Grim Flayer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Life from the Loam
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Whispers of Emrakul
1 Darkblast
4 Thought Scour
3 Bitterblossom
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Island
3 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
But then again, Turn 1 fetch, cycle Architects at EOT their turn puts 3 types into the yard. If we want a turn 2 Delirium Whispers that'll require another type, which Probe could have gotten us without spending mana. Turn 1 Thought Scour or Turn 1 Darkblast, dredge it Turn 2 can still get us there, though.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I agree with what others have states that there is a threshhold for too much discard maindeck. A lot of this changes based on what liliana you run, I suppose, but I can't really see running 4 whisper, 3-4 liliana, and then more discard on top of that. Thought scour really takes that spot on the curve.
With kaladesh being an artifact plane, I am REALLY hoping for a baleful strix reprint, though it is probably too good for standard.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
As a faeries player without Lorwyn TS - yes.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
As enablers go, Tarfire is by far the best one and what makes RUG good. Bauble is excellent too, ofc. I don't really like thought scour because it's very unreliable (sometimes you mill 2 types, sometimes 2 instants - there's no way of knowing) and makes the deck a bit unstable. Gitaxian Probe is less explosive but 100% surely puts a sorcery in the yard for free.
Traverse can be a grindy card, but it is also brutal for setting up Erayo, Soratami Ascendant - I'll say it again, Erayo is probably the BIGGEST Traverse payoff since you can fetch it whenever you want to and flip it with some Baubles/Probes as early as T3. That is GG against most non-Decay decks.
Since we don't have Tarfire in BUG, the next best thing is Architects of will, for 1 mana you put an artifact and creature in the yard and draw a card.
IMO it's also important that Whispers can be useful a bit later in the game. T2 Hymn to Tourach is backbreaking, but 3 Vapor Snags help keep up the tempo-ish plan and Whispers can be used to discard the returned creatures, essentially also "killing" them and not only gaining tempo. It's useful to save your creatures or bounce Snaps too, ofc.
With all this in mind, here's what I drafted. Looks pretty solid!:
4 Grim Flayer
4 Architects of Will
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Erayo, Sorarami Ascendant
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Whispers of Emrakul
3 Vapor Snag
2 Nameless Inversion
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Watery Grave
2 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
I think this is absolutely the direction we should be heading if looking for a tempo based build. I'll be testing this one out tonight.
As far as a midrange or control version, something slightly more optimal remains to be seen I think.