Yeah, but if you bounce the creature the Aura comes off.
I think that an equipment or Smuggler's Copter is a better option to speed up the clock, ot just use Favorable Winds as a global buff.
Personally not the biggest fan of the secluded glens as they make vedalken shackles weaker (I play 2 SB, and feel like the ability to play shackles together with a bunch of islands is one of the bigger selling points to the deck as it can be really hard to beat).
The list looks cool and I like the idea so its next in my list of decks to test out. It doesn't exactly fit the "Tempo Aggro" theme of the thread but it could spark some new ideas. Since it is 5 years old, are there any cards that could be added to make it more up-to-date with the current meta? Faerie Miscreant is the first thing that comes to mind here but it may not fit its more control-ly gameplan.
I don't run Vedalken Shackles on ninja lists as those lock some extra card slots and the curve is much lower. Neimans list tho seems like the right one to run them, but if we are going to go the control route I'd rather play the U/B version.
Exactly. If its aggro tempo its going to be more creature heavy than spell heavy. That ratio should look like 24 to 16 or 28 to 12 creature to spells.
While I do agree that vedalken shackles isn't the type of card that fits the deck best, the overall power level of the card is so insane that I believe you'd be crazy not to run it. In a shell with 18 or so basic islands it's in many matchups just a repeatable mind control, winning lots of games on it's own, and you also have counters to protect it, plus most opponents won't have much artifact removal in their deck postboard vs. this deck. Sure, you could argue that it's slow, not part of a tempo plan, etc. But I find that even though it doesn't mesh well with the overall game plan, taking the opponent's reality smashers and whatnot wins too much not to.
OK, so, I'm gonna make this deck.
I'm definitely running Scion of Oona as it is one of the best lords in modern. I'm considering splashing another color, though likely not green. It would be white for Path to Exile. Black for Bitterblossom and Fatal Push. Red for Lightning Bolt. What would you all do?
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Personally I'm not the biggest fan of splashing in this deck, as to me one of the main strengths is that you take 0 damage from your manabase. In general I have found that most modern decks win the race to 20 vs. this deck, however when you only need to do 16 or so while they need to do 20 it's a lot easier.
I like this mono blue tribal aggro tempo type of deck. What I don't know is what the best configuration of the deck is. This is where a ton of testing comes into play. Sadly, I wont be able to play test anything for a long time, but you can. So, here is the core I chose to run with and modular support spells a.k.a "support packages" I will be interchanging. If you test anything - great. We would all like to hear your comments. If not, I at lest threw out a lot of different options to ponder over.
Faeries will not work as a 28x creature deck as the creature quality isn't nearly good enough and there are no cheap lords to support it (Signal Pest isn't particulary good here).
Maybe Metallic Mimic can be the 2-mana lord of the deck (alongside Favorable Winds) and there is also Phantasmal Image to copy Scion of Oona.
Zephyr Sprite and Faerie Impostor just aren't good creatures (and running 4x-of each of them would be pretty bad) and Quickling is good but situational and not realiable enough to be a 4x-of.
On the other Vendilion Clique is the best Faerie in the format and Pestermite is a pretty good tempo creature.
The deck works (when it does) as tempo deck that you play 1-2 creatures and try to ride them to victory while disrupting (countering/bouncing) the opponent.
This is the reason to run Mistbind Clique that can actually help close the game.
At the top of the curve there is always the option of Cryptic Command that basically does everything, it is probably better in versions that run Snapcaster Mage as well and drop Mistbind Clique altogether.
Is there a reason we don't consider Spell Pierce? Is it just that Mana Leak catches more and the "tax" is higher?
I want to like Unsubstantiate, especially when I have a Vapor Snag in hand and wishing it was a Remand instead (and vice-versa) but when each are side-by-side it's a bit disappointing. Would you consider them more of a sideboard addition or could you see it being run mainboard? Is it worth sacrificing value for flexibility if I decide to replace a few Snags with Unsubstantiate?
I agree with your core cards spells. Looking through the thread it looks like the general consensus is to have at least the following:
I know he's not strictly a faerie, but Ninja of the Deep Hours is kinda nuts in combination with faeries. There's a really nice build that has him + ETB faeries out there somewhere
Faeries will not work as a 28x creature deck as the creature quality isn't nearly good enough and there are no cheap lords to support it (Signal Pest isn't particulary good here).
Maybe Metallic Mimic can be the 2-mana lord of the deck (alongside Favorable Winds) and there is also Phantasmal Image to copy Scion of Oona.
Zephyr Sprite and Faerie Impostor just aren't good creatures (and running 4x-of each of them would be pretty bad) and Quickling is good but situational and not realiable enough to be a 4x-of.
On the other Vendilion Clique is the best Faerie in the format and Pestermite is a pretty good tempo creature.
The deck works (when it does) as tempo deck that you play 1-2 creatures and try to ride them to victory while disrupting (countering/bouncing) the opponent.
This is the reason to run Mistbind Clique that can actually help close the game.
At the top of the curve there is always the option of Cryptic Command that basically does everything, it is probably better in versions that run Snapcaster Mage as well and drop Mistbind Clique altogether.
If you do not have anything nice to add do not try to trash my post bro. It's just being considerate. I have a different point of view than your classic u/b Fae that you try to sell as mono blue aggro tempo. You know there is a u/b Fae thread you can go post in. Bottom line, know the difference from Aggro tempo and control.
Faeries will not work as a 28x creature deck as the creature quality isn't nearly good enough and there are no cheap lords to support it (Signal Pest isn't particulary good here).
Maybe Metallic Mimic can be the 2-mana lord of the deck (alongside Favorable Winds) and there is also Phantasmal Image to copy Scion of Oona.
Zephyr Sprite and Faerie Impostor just aren't good creatures (and running 4x-of each of them would be pretty bad) and Quickling is good but situational and not realiable enough to be a 4x-of.
On the other Vendilion Clique is the best Faerie in the format and Pestermite is a pretty good tempo creature.
The deck works (when it does) as tempo deck that you play 1-2 creatures and try to ride them to victory while disrupting (countering/bouncing) the opponent.
This is the reason to run Mistbind Clique that can actually help close the game.
At the top of the curve there is always the option of Cryptic Command that basically does everything, it is probably better in versions that run Snapcaster Mage as well and drop Mistbind Clique altogether.
If you do not have anything nice to add do not try to trash my post bro. It's just being considerate. I have a different point of view than your classic u/b Fae that you try to sell as mono blue aggro tempo. You know there is a u/b Fae thread you can go post in. Bottom line, know the difference from Aggro tempo and control.
Dennis's post was very constructive and definitely not a trash post.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
It reads as a backhanded retort i.e. "your ideas are not good, because I say so. So, here are some better options, because I prefer this style of play." If you don't my post no problem. Just move on or better yet post your own opinions on how you want to play mono blue Fae. But, if this is considered constructive criticism please post so I may provide my on constructive criticism.
It reads as a backhanded constructive criticism i.e. "your ideas are not good, because I say so. So, here are some better options, because I prefer less Aggro more control style of play." If you don't my post no problem. Just move on or better yet post your own opinions on how you want to play mono blue Fae. But, if this is considered positive constructive criticism please post so I may provide my on positive constructive criticism.
Move on from the thread I've opened to discuss the deck ?
Please don't be any more ridiculous.
If you can't accept critism towards your ideas that is your problem and not mine.
I've actually played the deck and don't just dismiss ideas because I don't like them.
You can test with the deck and come back with conclusions rather than thereocraft and then get defensive when your suggested build is not accepted.
I'm still missing Vendilion Clique and use Phantasmal Image (which functions completely different of course) instead.
Might swap them to Pestermite as well as they are rather fragile without A.Vial.
Move on from the thread I've opened to discuss the deck ?
Please don't be any more ridiculous.
If you can't accept critism towards your ideas that is your problem and not mine.
I've actually played the deck and don't just dismiss ideas because I don't like them.
You can test with the deck and come back with conclusions rather than thereocraft and then get defensive when your suggested build is not accepted.
I'm still missing Vendilion Clique and use Phantasmal Image (which functions completely different of course) instead.
Might swap them to Pestermite as well as they are rather fragile without A.Vial.
No, you misread my post. I'm not asking you to leave the post...how did you get that?! Just ignore it and post something contributing to the thread rather than sniping my post - twice. That is what I was getting at.
So, let me get this straight. Just because I cannot play the deck at this time I shouldn't be allowed to post via theory craft about a deck in the creation thread?
I met with some friends and just played some games (most of which were preboard, though there were a few postboard games also).
Went something like:
4-2 against storm (can't remember exact amount of games we played)
1-0 against grishoalbrand
7-2 against titan scapeshift
5-0 against blue moon (with madcap experiment combo as wincon).
Um, question...why not run Cloudstone Curio? It makes all faeries into Quicklings, can fizzle creature removal due to the high number of flash creatures, increases faerie size with Metallic Mimic, and makes Mistbind/ V. Clique shenanigans into a potential lock? Played with Phantasmal Image, the deck gets plumb ridiculous.The hard part is working out the proper numbers of what to play in the deck.
I know Remand, Vapor Snag, and Mana Leak are the core spells, and some lists run Spell Snare. How about Unsubstantiate over Spell Snare, for control spots 13-14? Spell snare is a hard counter, but very conditional. A powerful card with no versatility. Unsubstantiate is the opposite. It's a less powerful counter than Remand, and a less powerful bounce than Vapor Snag. But it has the versatility to do both, which means it's never a dead card in hand, and can be remand 5-6 when necessary, and snag 5-6 when necessary. It can also buy a turn to win against uncounterable spells, since it is return to hand, and doesn't state counter. The deck currently doesn't have a way to handle anything that can't be countered, so this is a new tool in our toolbox. Instead of the very specific and powerful effect of Spell Snare, it is a very versatile effect, while slightly worse than dedicated cards. Is the versatility worth more than the power? It's also exactly half a cryptic command. Instead of choosing 2 "blue" effects from 4 choices for 4 mana, you're choosing one "blue" effect from 2 choices for 2 mana. And cryptic was powerful because it was versatile and never a dead cardin hand. Choice matters. Is this worth experimenting with?
A fairly compelling point on Unsubstantiate. I like Familiar's Ruse as well. I play a mono u build with Cloudstone Curio, so bouncing an creature to hard counter something too big for my spellstutter is amazing. Its basically counterspell in modern. Its not for everybody; my list seems far more controlling than most.
While I can't see it having a place in the tempo builds, I can definately see Familiar Ruse in the more control-focused builds. Especially the utility of being able to bounce a Spellstutter, allowing it to replace itself with another 2-drop counter.
I've been on the fence about Unsubstantiate. Yes, it is versatile but its an unimpressive replacement for Remand and Vapor Snag when you need it to perform as such. I'm all for testing it in my list but I've been scratching my head as to what to take out in order to make room for them. I'd be interested in seeing you guys' lists if you're using it.
Are there any new blue cards in Amonkhet that could be worth considering? The first one that comes to my mind is Censor. Sure, it can easily turn into a dead counterspell as the game goes on but I think the Cycling ability could make up for it. I could imagine running just one or two. I don't think you'd want a full playset. Maybe its still not that great - people don't normally tap out against a blue player holding up 2+ mana and the "Pay 1" is a bit of a joke. Thoughts on this and any others?
I think honestly no matter the archetype of Fae, the one thing missing is a card draw creature. The one we have, Faerie Miscreant, is the worst card in the deck and so conditional, it rarely hits when we need it. Ive considered Bident of Thassa or even Thassa herself as a possible way of solving this. Thassa also is tough to remove once Devotion is high enough and smoothing out draws does help.
I'm using the Budget Magic list as a shell, since I don't know where else to start. I'm swapping in 2x Vendilion Clique, replacing a Mistbind and a Quickling. I'm dropping the 1 drop bounce faerie and Unsummon for either Spell Snare or Unsubstantiate, as a 2 of (I've got both on order. If Unsubstantiate doesn't work in testing, I'll swap it out) and I'm upgrading the Conclaves to Mutavaults. I'm also dropping a Ghost Quarter for an Island, since the Mutavaults give me more colorless land, so I'm running that as a 3x. If the cards I need to complete the deck come in on time, I intend to run it at my FNM, which is diverse, from the one guy who was playing 42 Land Swan with Cavern of Souls to protect the swan...to the guy running $1,300 Grixis. If I can get the deck together, I'll see how it works with Unsubstantiate.
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Modern: BWTokensBW RWBurnRW UFaeriesU
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I think that an equipment or Smuggler's Copter is a better option to speed up the clock, ot just use Favorable Winds as a global buff.
4 Mistbind Clique
4 Scion of Oona
2 Spellskite
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Vendilion Clique
Spells (18)
4 Cryptic Command
3 Mana Leak
3 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
4 Spell Snare
3 Vedalken Shackles
2 Faerie Conclave
18 Island
4 Mutavault
1 Pendelhaven
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spellskite
2 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Vendilion Clique
The list looks cool and I like the idea so its next in my list of decks to test out. It doesn't exactly fit the "Tempo Aggro" theme of the thread but it could spark some new ideas. Since it is 5 years old, are there any cards that could be added to make it more up-to-date with the current meta? Faerie Miscreant is the first thing that comes to mind here but it may not fit its more control-ly gameplan.
Exactly. If its aggro tempo its going to be more creature heavy than spell heavy. That ratio should look like 24 to 16 or 28 to 12 creature to spells.
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I'm definitely running Scion of Oona as it is one of the best lords in modern. I'm considering splashing another color, though likely not green. It would be white for Path to Exile. Black for Bitterblossom and Fatal Push. Red for Lightning Bolt. What would you all do?
THE CORE:
CREATURES: 28
- 4x Scion of Oona
- 4x Quickling
- 4x Spellstutter Sprite
- 4x Faerie Imposter
- 4x Faerie Miscreant
- 4x Zephyr Sprite
- 4x Signal Pest
SUPPORT: See SUPPORT PACKAGESRESOURCES: 20
- 1x Oboro, Palace in the Sky
- 19x Island
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////SUPPORT PACKAGES:
PUMP: 12
- 4x Favorable Winds
- 4x Unstable Mutation
- 4x Bonesplitter
COUNTERS: 12- 4x Familiar's Ruse
- 4x Remand
- 4x Spell Snare
- 4x Disrupting Shoal
(Choose Ruse or Remand not both)FLASH COUNTERS: 12
- 4x Disappearing Act
- 4x Familiar's Ruse
- 4x Aether Vial
BOUNCE: 12- 4x Mistblade Shinobi
- 4x Unsummon
- 4x Snapback
CREATURE TAP: 16- 4x Pestermite
- 4x Downpour
- 4x Gigadrowse
- 4x Blustersquall
(Pestermite replaces Spellstutter Sprite)RESOURCE TAP: 16
- 1x Mistbind Clique
- 3x Pestermite
- 4x Early Frost
- 4x Gigadrowse
- 4x Twiddle
(Mistbind Clique and Pestermite replace Spellstutter Sprite)YOUTUBE CHANNEL: GOBOTS
Maybe Metallic Mimic can be the 2-mana lord of the deck (alongside Favorable Winds) and there is also Phantasmal Image to copy Scion of Oona.
Zephyr Sprite and Faerie Impostor just aren't good creatures (and running 4x-of each of them would be pretty bad) and Quickling is good but situational and not realiable enough to be a 4x-of.
On the other Vendilion Clique is the best Faerie in the format and Pestermite is a pretty good tempo creature.
The deck works (when it does) as tempo deck that you play 1-2 creatures and try to ride them to victory while disrupting (countering/bouncing) the opponent.
This is the reason to run Mistbind Clique that can actually help close the game.
Spells that I consider part of the core are:
4x Vapor Snag, 4x Remand, 2x-4x Spell Snare, 2x-4x Mana Leak (or Rune Snag/Disrupting Shoal).
I don't really think that spells like:
Unstable Mutation, Early Frost, Twiddle, Blustersquall, Gigadrowse, Downpour, Disappearing Act, Mistblade Shinobi and Snapback are particulary playable in this deck in Modern.
Another decent (but conditional) bounce spell can be Peel from Reality and there is also Unsubstantiate which is like a (sort-of) modal Unsummon/Remand.
At the top of the curve there is always the option of Cryptic Command that basically does everything, it is probably better in versions that run Snapcaster Mage as well and drop Mistbind Clique altogether.
I want to like Unsubstantiate, especially when I have a Vapor Snag in hand and wishing it was a Remand instead (and vice-versa) but when each are side-by-side it's a bit disappointing. Would you consider them more of a sideboard addition or could you see it being run mainboard? Is it worth sacrificing value for flexibility if I decide to replace a few Snags with Unsubstantiate?
I agree with your core cards spells. Looking through the thread it looks like the general consensus is to have at least the following:
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Scion of Oona
2 Mistbind Clique
4 Vapor Snag
2 Mana Leak
4 Remand
6 Additional Lands
If you do not have anything nice to add do not try to trash my post bro. It's just being considerate. I have a different point of view than your classic u/b Fae that you try to sell as mono blue aggro tempo. You know there is a u/b Fae thread you can go post in. Bottom line, know the difference from Aggro tempo and control.
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Dennis's post was very constructive and definitely not a trash post.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
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Please don't be any more ridiculous.
If you can't accept critism towards your ideas that is your problem and not mine.
I've actually played the deck and don't just dismiss ideas because I don't like them.
You can test with the deck and come back with conclusions rather than thereocraft and then get defensive when your suggested build is not accepted.
For reference here is my current build:
4x Faerie Miscreant
4x Spellstutter Sprite
2x Quickling
4x Scion of Oona
2x Vendilion Clique
4x Mistbind Clique
Instant (14)
4x Vapor Snag
2x Spell Snare
4x Remand
4x Mana Leak
2x Favorable Winds
Artifact (4)
4x Aether Vial
Land (20)
16x Island
2x Faerie Conclave
2x Mutavault
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Spreading Seas
2x Negate
2x Echoing Truth
3x Dismember
1x Sower of Temptation
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Ratchet Bomb
Might swap them to Pestermite as well as they are rather fragile without A.Vial.
No, you misread my post. I'm not asking you to leave the post...how did you get that?! Just ignore it and post something contributing to the thread rather than sniping my post - twice. That is what I was getting at.
So, let me get this straight. Just because I cannot play the deck at this time I shouldn't be allowed to post via theory craft about a deck in the creation thread?
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4 Faerie Miscreant
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Scion of Oona
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Mistbind Clique
Noncreatures (16):
3 Vapor Snag
2 Spell Snare
3 Mana Leak
2 Remand
4 Cryptic Command
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
19 Island
1 Faerie Conclave
4 Mutavault
1 Pendelhaven
3 Spreading Seas
3 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Echoing Truths
2 Dispel
1 Spell Snare
1 Vedalken Shackles
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Spellskite
I met with some friends and just played some games (most of which were preboard, though there were a few postboard games also).
Went something like:
4-2 against storm (can't remember exact amount of games we played)
1-0 against grishoalbrand
7-2 against titan scapeshift
5-0 against blue moon (with madcap experiment combo as wincon).
BWTokensBW
RWBurnRW
UFaeriesU
BWTokensBW
RWBurnRW
UFaeriesU
Are there any new blue cards in Amonkhet that could be worth considering? The first one that comes to my mind is Censor. Sure, it can easily turn into a dead counterspell as the game goes on but I think the Cycling ability could make up for it. I could imagine running just one or two. I don't think you'd want a full playset. Maybe its still not that great - people don't normally tap out against a blue player holding up 2+ mana and the "Pay 1" is a bit of a joke. Thoughts on this and any others?
BWTokensBW
RWBurnRW
UFaeriesU