So with the new Eldritch Evolution spoiled, let's start the brewing! Obviously as a one-shot "pod" activation, we need to make it count. That means cheating into play a fattie and sacrificing it for an even bigger fattie. Was toying around with the idea of allosaurus rider as the sac fodder into something like Iona, Shield of Emeria or even Ruric Thar, Unbowed. We can accelerate out the rider with Chancellor of the Tangle T1 and then exile those two to cast Evolution for a T1 fattie. What do you guys think?
Extras:
2-4 Removal
2-3 Utility lands
2-4 Other green/fatties
What are your guys thoughts!
Edit. Updated decklist. There's one flex spot. But so far, I started with the combo and a few toolbox bullets. The beast within can hit a troublesome permanent, or tag a land once you get magus out to lock the opponent off a color. Also added noble instead of birds. With arch druid in play and 1-2 noble, casting norn is not out of the question (albeit difficult)
EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
I normally love Sprawl, but I like being able to T1 Dork, T2 Evolution into Magus, Spellskite, Gaddock Teeg, or [Insert_Hateful_Creature_Here]. Sprawl doesn't facilitate that and this deck should have a backup plan beyond just the Rider combo.
It's a good idea to focus on getting a fast Allosaurus Rider out and throwing it away for a lockdown card, or using similar techniques. Many of the below ideas don't work with the dinosaur.
Rift Elemental, Clockspinning and Fury Charm may become 3-card-combos instead of the dinosaur (which is technically a very easily attainable four card combo), but the number of these cards decrease variance, also, they're in looting colors. Pardic Dragon will only work with these cards.
Qasali Ambusher is probably too situational and doesn't have a large enough mana cost to be worth it, I suppose.
Maelstrom Djinn can get in for cheap with morph, here we don't actually care about the time counters. Still, it's a nine mana combo over three turns...
Awesome ideas guys! I think chancellor may be too Christmas-y. I guess I was trying to use the double synergy on T1.
What about just using a mono-green stomp shell or even elves? Use the extra slots for elvish archdruid or leatherback baloth? That way we can stop aggro while still putting on a decent clock if the combo fails. Also the rider IS an elf, which may benefit from lord synergy...
Suspend seems cool, but may be a little slower? If anything though, I would like to try out detritivore. Being able to t3 suspend it and just nuke lands each turn can help disrupt while you beat down or try to combo.
Same with dredge/delve. Though we may need to splash another 1-2 colors for Taz. Though t2 taz->t3 anything seems juicy...
In any case, I think the combo is very solid. Going all-in or stapling it to a midrange deck a la Nahiri/Emrakul could be two possible directions for this deck.
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EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Suspend was a possible direction, I think Delve more easily gets the cost reduction done, because of the superior roster of support cards, such as Thought Scour.
But it's worth trying out for brewing just for a week or so. Getting an Infiltrator il-Kor to be a core part of a Modern deck would be hilarious.
I would keep the range of creatures as defined as possible. A cmc of odds 1,3,5,7,9 should be playabe even outside the Combo
1:Mana dorks
3:Kitchen Finks, Magus, Witness, Rec Sage
5:Thragtusk, Deus of Calamity, Mandrills
7:Allosaurus Rider, Griselbrand, Elesh Norn
9:Iona
If this list gets completed we could have a tool to see what is possible and what we want to be possible with this deck. My impression for example is that Collected company can't be part of it. Also Chord needs a better toolbox with a lower curve overall.
Doesn't just have to be odd right? X or less
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EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
I would keep the range of creatures as defined as possible. A cmc of odds 1,3,5,7,9 should be playabe even outside the Combo
1:Mana dorks
3:Kitchen Finks, Magus, Witness, Rec Sage
5:Thragtusk, Deus of Calamity, Mandrills
7:Allosaurus Rider, Griselbrand, Elesh Norn
9:Iona
If this list gets completed we could have a tool to see what is possible and what we want to be possible with this deck. My impression for example is that Collected company can't be part of it. Also Chord needs a better toolbox with a lower curve overall.
Doesn't just have to be odd right? X or less
Correct, but it's about getting the most value out of the build. It depends whether we want a curve topper of 7, 8 or 9. Playing 6-cost cards and then having nothing but CMC 9 cards ruins the foundation of the build. Also, green is really good at playing odd cmc cards due to ramp tempo.
Seeing that Kitchen Finks and Thragtusk exist, I definitely believe we should go at least 1, 3, 5, and 7.
True...i agree both can be in consideration. I'm currently play testing with a GW version with Voice of Resurgence into Siege Rhino...Not odd cmc but Voice gives value on sac and rhino is pretty good on its own
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EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
I do think making the cost uneven may be easiest seeing that the card costing 1GG really incentivizes a mana dork turn 1 (as you originally thought) EDIT: Point being, it allows a jump to both evolution and a cmc 3 creature such as Kitchen Finks. Playing Voice seems like a waste of a potential for a really good mana curve.
Agreed. Wanted to test it as it both leaves behind a token and can help de-incentivize an opponent from trying to counter your allosaurus combo if you have it in play....I'll keep testing tho and try 3/5CMC dudes
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EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
T1 Dork, T2 Voice , land tapped t3 Attack voice (+/- exalted) Evolution into siege rhino get token, dork to make token 4/4.
It's vulnerable to sweepers, but anger doesn't touch your rhino. I need to sleeve it up and test sometime with ppl at my lgs
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EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
If the card can just augment a powerful setup without being a detriment by virtue of not say being a Kitchen Finks and costing you a creature in play, it's good enough. We don't need to ride the dinosaur. (However much it hurts my heart to say that.) Was the dinosaur good with it, you managed to get hold of the Iona fx?
If the card can just augment a powerful setup without being a detriment by virtue of not say being a Kitchen Finks and costing you a creature in play, it's good enough. We don't need to ride the dinosaur. (However much it hurts my heart to say that.) Was the dinosaur good with it, you managed to get hold of the Iona fx?
It's been going really well actually. T2 Iona probably at like 30-40% of the games I've been playing
Aether Vial seems good here as well. Depending on the number of colors you want to play, Bring to Light fetches all the parts you could want
Um. If you have a billion "twins" don't you already win...?
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EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Aether Vial seems good here as well. Depending on the number of colors you want to play, Bring to Light fetches all the parts you could want
Um. If you have a billion "twins" don't you already win...?
My apologies, I have an exaggeration problem. I meant to say is you put 12-16+ "Exarchs" in your deck. Then after you have two in play, you evolve one into Kiki-Jiki. THEN you make a billion twins and crush face.
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If you always do what you always did, then you'll always get what you always got.
Feels like a real deck to me, based on my handful of practice matches. It's like Pod, where they can overboard vs your combo then just die to your creatures. Here's my rough draft:
Creature (32)
4x Allosaurus Rider
4x Birds of Paradise
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4x Elvish Mystic
1x Eternal Witness
3x Fauna Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Griselbrand
3x Hooting Mandrills
4x Kitchen Finks
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Spellskite
1x Thragtusk
Land (21)
1x Dryad Arbor
8x Forest
1x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
2x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
Sorcery (7)
3x Commune with the Gods
4x Eldritch Evolution
Sideboard (15)
1x Maelstrom Archangel
1x Creeping Corrosion
3x Guttural Response
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Reclamation Sage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
So, I am in love with this card. However, I'm not sure how good a deck which requires you to have this card will be. I have seen some people talk about playing a midrange deck that includes this card instead. I think that is the way to go. That way you don't draw the wrong half of your deck some percentage of the time. Building a core around voice, finks, Rhino, thragtusk/archangel of thune, and possibly grave Titan seems perfect. The fact that you can only play four evolutions and that they are strictly one use (is there a way to cast it from exile?) means the deck should function well without it.
The secret is, Allosaurus Rider isn't a bad card even without the combo. I've discarded two mana dorks in the late game (turn 3) multiple times to accelerate out a 3/3+ for free while casting a Finks or something. The combo doesn't put a large burden on the deck.
In case you guys wanted to forget all about midrange and see how far down the rabbit hole the combo goes... There's already a deck that cheats fatties into play and wins immediately. Thanks to this forum I have noticed that the combination of Allosaurus Rider and Eldritch Evolution might just break it.
Grishoalbrand plans to reanimate Griselbrand with Goryo's Veangeance and then draw cards chaining Nourishing Shoal until it can Through the Breach on Borborygmos Enraged.
You should note that I have not tested this list at all.
A fair criticism. Upon reflection I don't think Goryo's Vengeance is the right thing to combine with Eldritch Evolution given that you need to get the legendary in the graveyard somehow and it will likely force you to play 4 copies, when Eldritch Evolution only needs one. But I think the Nourishing Shoals tech is still good if you still want to use an all in combo version. I would start with this:
Both Hooting Mandrills and Allosaurus Rider fetch Griselbees and Elesh Norn. Only the Rider fetchs Iona.
If you include Nourishing Shoal, you can fetch Griselbrand and then draw an inordinate number of cards because Nourishing Shoal can pitch Allosaurus Rider or Hooting Mandrills. Similarly, Allosaurus Rider can pitch Nourishing Shoal. Then you can put in Borborygmos Enraged if you like to combo kill them quickly.
Another spicy addition I am seriously considering is Painter's Servant. You would always choose green. It completely hard locks the opponent if you combine it with Iona and it lets you pitch any card to Rider or Nourishing Shoal. Then if you like you can play Summoner's Pact, Deathmark, and/or Flashfreeze.
What the deck is missing however is a way to put cards in the graveyard for Mandrills. I don't know what that should be yet. Maybe Faithless Looting. Or maybe it should be a Goryo's Veangeance deck since Grisly Salvage then serves 2 purposes. You could back it up with discard to make sure the coast is clear.
One thing I don't much like about the whole concept behind the deck is that your combo expends 4 cards: 2 green, an Allosaurus Rider, and an Eldritch Evolution. That kind of card disadvantage makes me extremely wary. It makes me want to expand into blue for Ancestral Visions to make up for it. I would then consider Thought Scour for Mandrills.
So with the new Eldritch Evolution spoiled, let's start the brewing! Obviously as a one-shot "pod" activation, we need to make it count. That means cheating into play a fattie and sacrificing it for an even bigger fattie. Was toying around with the idea of allosaurus rider as the sac fodder into something like Iona, Shield of Emeria or even Ruric Thar, Unbowed. We can accelerate out the rider with Chancellor of the Tangle T1 and then exile those two to cast Evolution for a T1 fattie. What do you guys think?
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Champion
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Allosaurus Rider
4 Elvish Mystic
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Eldritch Evolution
4 Beast Within
2 Dismember
Lands:
20 Forest
4 Guttural Response
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
4 Leyline of Sanctity
Extras:
2-4 Removal
2-3 Utility lands
2-4 Other green/fatties
What are your guys thoughts!
Edit. Updated decklist. There's one flex spot. But so far, I started with the combo and a few toolbox bullets. The beast within can hit a troublesome permanent, or tag a land once you get magus out to lock the opponent off a color. Also added noble instead of birds. With arch druid in play and 1-2 noble, casting norn is not out of the question (albeit difficult)
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
--------
RIP Twin
Chancellor is pretty useless here because you're not getting a T1 Evolution without TWO Chancellors in your hand. Better to shoot for T2.
I normally love Sprawl, but I like being able to T1 Dork, T2 Evolution into Magus, Spellskite, Gaddock Teeg, or [Insert_Hateful_Creature_Here]. Sprawl doesn't facilitate that and this deck should have a backup plan beyond just the Rider combo.
It's a good idea to focus on getting a fast Allosaurus Rider out and throwing it away for a lockdown card, or using similar techniques. Many of the below ideas don't work with the dinosaur.
I thought about these cards, which can be played earlier with suspend. http://magiccards.info/query?q=o:"suspend x"&v=card&s=cname Greater Gargadon is also a card that tutors basically everything. All of these are probably too expensive for what we want to do. Nihilith can get out early too but requires some work.
Infiltrator il-Kor is probably too slow but very cheap to suspend. Knight of Sursi is slower but can be played one turn earlier. Shade of Trokair. Viscerid Deepwalker is slower, but has a higher cost. Same with Duskrider Peregrine, Keldon Halberdier and Errant Ephemeron. But then we're getting really slow.
Rift Elemental, Clockspinning and Fury Charm may become 3-card-combos instead of the dinosaur (which is technically a very easily attainable four card combo), but the number of these cards decrease variance, also, they're in looting colors. Pardic Dragon will only work with these cards.
Qasali Ambusher is probably too situational and doesn't have a large enough mana cost to be worth it, I suppose.
Maelstrom Djinn can get in for cheap with morph, here we don't actually care about the time counters. Still, it's a nine mana combo over three turns...
There are also a few cheap-to-play Ninjutsu creatures. http://magiccards.info/query?q=o:ninjutsu&v=card&s=cname
I know all of these are subpar solutions, but we need to dig somewhat to get hold of cards that work with the evolution.
(beside that, Scornful Egoist is cute for Legacy. But that's not for this thread)
What about just using a mono-green stomp shell or even elves? Use the extra slots for elvish archdruid or leatherback baloth? That way we can stop aggro while still putting on a decent clock if the combo fails. Also the rider IS an elf, which may benefit from lord synergy...
Suspend seems cool, but may be a little slower? If anything though, I would like to try out detritivore. Being able to t3 suspend it and just nuke lands each turn can help disrupt while you beat down or try to combo.
Same with dredge/delve. Though we may need to splash another 1-2 colors for Taz. Though t2 taz->t3 anything seems juicy...
In any case, I think the combo is very solid. Going all-in or stapling it to a midrange deck a la Nahiri/Emrakul could be two possible directions for this deck.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
--------
RIP Twin
But it's worth trying out for brewing just for a week or so. Getting an Infiltrator il-Kor to be a core part of a Modern deck would be hilarious.
Doesn't just have to be odd right? X or less
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
--------
RIP Twin
Correct, but it's about getting the most value out of the build. It depends whether we want a curve topper of 7, 8 or 9. Playing 6-cost cards and then having nothing but CMC 9 cards ruins the foundation of the build. Also, green is really good at playing odd cmc cards due to ramp tempo.
Seeing that Kitchen Finks and Thragtusk exist, I definitely believe we should go at least 1, 3, 5, and 7.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
--------
RIP Twin
I do think making the cost uneven may be easiest seeing that the card costing 1GG really incentivizes a mana dork turn 1 (as you originally thought) EDIT: Point being, it allows a jump to both evolution and a cmc 3 creature such as Kitchen Finks. Playing Voice seems like a waste of a potential for a really good mana curve.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
--------
RIP Twin
It's vulnerable to sweepers, but anger doesn't touch your rhino. I need to sleeve it up and test sometime with ppl at my lgs
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
--------
RIP Twin
If the card can just augment a powerful setup without being a detriment by virtue of not say being a Kitchen Finks and costing you a creature in play, it's good enough. We don't need to ride the dinosaur. (However much it hurts my heart to say that.) Was the dinosaur good with it, you managed to get hold of the Iona fx?
Aether Vial seems good here as well. Depending on the number of colors you want to play, Bring to Light fetches all the parts you could want
EDIT: There's also Midnight Guard tho
Midnight Guard doesn't untap Kiki-Jiki.
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
Ah correct.
It's been going really well actually. T2 Iona probably at like 30-40% of the games I've been playing
Um. If you have a billion "twins" don't you already win...?
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
--------
RIP Twin
My apologies, I have an exaggeration problem. I meant to say is you put 12-16+ "Exarchs" in your deck. Then after you have two in play, you evolve one into Kiki-Jiki. THEN you make a billion twins and crush face.
Creature (32)
4x Allosaurus Rider
4x Birds of Paradise
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4x Elvish Mystic
1x Eternal Witness
3x Fauna Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Griselbrand
3x Hooting Mandrills
4x Kitchen Finks
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Spellskite
1x Thragtusk
Land (21)
1x Dryad Arbor
8x Forest
1x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
2x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
Sorcery (7)
3x Commune with the Gods
4x Eldritch Evolution
Sideboard (15)
1x Maelstrom Archangel
1x Creeping Corrosion
3x Guttural Response
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Reclamation Sage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
Grishoalbrand plans to reanimate Griselbrand with Goryo's Veangeance and then draw cards chaining Nourishing Shoal until it can Through the Breach on Borborygmos Enraged.
You should note that I have not tested this list at all.
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Nourishing Shoal
1 Through The Breach
4 Griselbrand
1 Borborygmos Enraged
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Faithless Looting
4 Manamorphose
This may be worse than what you guys are brewing and it may be worse than the normal Grishoalbrand deck. It also might be busted. I dunno. Thoughts?
Sacrificial Fodder
4 Allosaurus Rider
4 Hooting Mandrills
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Nourishing Shoal
Maybe
4 Painter's Servant
Both Hooting Mandrills and Allosaurus Rider fetch Griselbees and Elesh Norn. Only the Rider fetchs Iona.
If you include Nourishing Shoal, you can fetch Griselbrand and then draw an inordinate number of cards because Nourishing Shoal can pitch Allosaurus Rider or Hooting Mandrills. Similarly, Allosaurus Rider can pitch Nourishing Shoal. Then you can put in Borborygmos Enraged if you like to combo kill them quickly.
Another spicy addition I am seriously considering is Painter's Servant. You would always choose green. It completely hard locks the opponent if you combine it with Iona and it lets you pitch any card to Rider or Nourishing Shoal. Then if you like you can play Summoner's Pact, Deathmark, and/or Flashfreeze.
What the deck is missing however is a way to put cards in the graveyard for Mandrills. I don't know what that should be yet. Maybe Faithless Looting. Or maybe it should be a Goryo's Veangeance deck since Grisly Salvage then serves 2 purposes. You could back it up with discard to make sure the coast is clear.
One thing I don't much like about the whole concept behind the deck is that your combo expends 4 cards: 2 green, an Allosaurus Rider, and an Eldritch Evolution. That kind of card disadvantage makes me extremely wary. It makes me want to expand into blue for Ancestral Visions to make up for it. I would then consider Thought Scour for Mandrills.