So I'm on board with this deck. So much accidental card advantage, speed, free 3/3s, uncounterable creatures, who wouldn't love it.
My current build. The sideboard is in flux. Folks will see the white leyline and wonder what's up, spells like rakdos charm and primal command are what's up. As well as cooling off discard, burn, or gifts ungiven. It's not designed to be hard cast. Love the interactions, especially things like paying for stitchwing at opponent's second main to recur amalgams for the next turn. Saccing neonate to discard grave-troll and immediately dredge makes me smile. Great fun. Mana is a bit of a gamble right now. Fetches for basic island and forest primarily to fend off blood moon.
The main reason I'm not running any counters is because you pretty much need to have them in the first hand. After that I'm dredging almost every turn and will never use them. I like running blue for izzet charm to loot, as well as hard cast amalgam and stitchwing if needed, and sometimes it's needed.
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Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
Legacy RB Goblins
I like having my green sources and loam package, but I'm also playing a rites package where this list isn't running that. I'm on board with the leyline package as well, I feel like burn is a rough matchup for us as I've yet to run into it.
I tested the rites package and found that I was always missing one piece or another to really make it hit hard enough to want them. So I went with tools to fix other matchups. I haven't added dakmor because I didn't see it in your list or think about getting it back for bloodghast. Actually I've been pretty consistent finding ways to recur dudes through narcomoeba and stitchwing. But you're 100% right about it, and I should add it somewhere. Conflagrate has been hit or miss, maybe it can move to the side...
On loam: I feel like it should be in a deck that takes more advantage of being able to discard the extra land, like seismic assault or zombie infestation. One thing it does is give you a way to smash control with ghost quarters. I'm more on the swarm idea.
Abrupt decay won't hit opponent's leyline of the void, which nature's claim does. But abrupt decay does hit stuff like scavenging ooze and withered wretch(!?!), of which I lost games to both. You can't avoid everything, but I think this package serves a wide range of matchups. Stony silence was added for relic of progenitus, which I thought I had covered with leyline but was wrong. Turns out it also hoses affinity, lantern, thopter foundry, etc. Still one grudge for the platinum angel matchups.
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I also like the idea of abrupt decay in the 75, but lightning axe will also handle scooze and WW plus it gives us an outlet to throw a dredger in the graveyard.
I also like the idea of abrupt decay in the 75, but lightning axe will also handle scooze and WW plus it gives us an outlet to throw a dredger in the graveyard.
Yep, but axe doesn't destroy rest in peace, seal of primordium, or ghostly prison. Axe is an enabler but decay answers a bunch of my problems. Just more versatile.
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I have almost no experience with dredge as an archetype, but I really I'm digging this deck idea. Just out of curiosity, is there no room for cards like a Durmog Angler? How about Reflecting pool or maybe a Drowned Temple?
I'd also be interested in any dredge pro-tips or stories with this list you guys have had already?
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If you always do what you always did, then you'll always get what you always got.
I have almost no experience with dredge as an archetype, but I really I'm digging this deck idea. Just out of curiosity, is there no room for cards like a Durmog Angler? How about Reflecting pool or maybe a Drowned Temple?
I'd also be interested in any dredge pro-tips or stories with this list you guys have had already?
The point to dredge is to utilize the graveyard as your hand, potentially getting dudes in play for free. You rarely actually draw cards so you'd need to start with it in hand. The way it cheats mana is different from dredging.
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The point to dredge is to utilize the graveyard as your hand, potentially getting dudes in play for free. You rarely actually draw cards so you'd need to start with it in hand. The way it cheats mana is different from dredging.
Fair enough. Judging from the latest Dredgevine list to finish a League, the main difference between this deck and Dredgevine is:
Leyline of Sanctity also helps against Nihil Spellbomb.
If this deck wants to explore blue I like Izzet charm a lot. I would even consider Remand and Spell Snare for dredgy reasons and as easy counter to RIP and Ooze.
Speaking of blue the 3x Swan song i have in the SB it's maybe the most used spot in game 2-3.
- L
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
Have you ever tried to play Zombie Infestation and Vampiric Rites in the same list? I am trying it right now and I am really surprised how good of an engine it is.
Ooh, I’m liking the sound of that. I’ll have to give that one a test.
Have we thought about nether traitor in this kinda deck? Recurs on so many death triggers and gets back the prized amalgams that we just used to trigger the traitor.
I played in a 45 person FNM. I played the version that SaffronOlive did a deck tech on. It has Vengevine.
Round 1 vs. budget Affinity. I punted the last game pretty badly. In game 1, he gets knocked down to 2 life on turn 4, facing much more than lethal next turn. I am at 7, facing 2 damage, so Galvanic Blast doesn't kill me. He draws Cranial Plating, wins, and we're on to game 2. I get Darkblast and use it to wipe his board while getting a Bloodghast, triggering a Prized Amalgam. I get there, even having 2 Ancient Grudge still in my graveyard. In the final game after a mull, I keep 4 lands and 2 Prized Amalgam. It was stupid of me. I scry land to the bottom. I draw 3 lands and another Prized Amalgam and lose. I honestly should have just mulled to a good hand, Darkblast, or Ancient Grudge. I believe that Swamp/Darkblast from a 2 card hand probably beats him. For some odd reason, I thought I could draw Darkblast, Ancient Grudge, Insolent Neonate, or Faithless Looting in 4 draws. 1-2.
Round 2 vs. Mono White creatures. I think this guy played in his first FNM ever and his deck was nearly just a bad Pauper deck. His mom even came in between the match to show him some weird card. I drew well and crushed him with a bunch of creatures. 2-0.
Round 3 vs. Kiki Chord. My friend borrowed my deck and did a punt last round. I was watching and knew for sure we'd play each other because of this, out of 43 other players. Sure enough, we did and he scooped to me and dropped. This hurt my tiebreakers, but I had more worries, as the next round showed. For what it's worth, I tested at home and it was 60/40 for Dredge vs. Kiki Chord. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. Merfolk. Not much to say here. My draw is somewhat slow, but decent enough to beat most decks. He plays turns 2, 3, and 5 Master of the Pearl Trident and that's game. He raced me and my creatures don't block. In the next game, he gets 3 Lords (2 of those Master of the Pearl Trident again ) and 2 Relic of Progenitus. By the time I do Ancient Grudge, probably incorrectly playing around his Cursecatcher and its flashback, he has too much pressure and I lose pretty easily. 0-2.
Round 5 vs. Mono Black Control. This guy plays a budget list. He usually does somewhat decently, but he hasn't done as well recently. I basically draw the nuts and he scoops with over 20 power on board and him at 5 life on turn 3. Three Insolent Neonate by turn 2 with Golgari Grave-Troll. The next game is similar and he scoops early. He had some cards to play, but saw the Ancient Grudge in my graveyard and unfortunately the cards were artifacts. 2-0.
Round 6 vs. GW Death and Taxes. His version is a bit different. He tells me that he has 4 Scavenging Ooze after the match. In game 1, he gets it and it does its work. I have to extend through a Lol Troll by discarding more creatures than he can exile with Ooze just to kill his Ooze. It works, but he draws his 4th Path to Exile the very next turn. I was a bit upset, especially since I was joking with him before the match and said, "I hope your deck doesn't play Path to Exile." He drew 3 by turn 5 and the last one a couple of turns later. I get enough creatures to kill him in game 2, although he had quite a few himself. In the last game, turn 2 Scavenging Ooze comes out again. I'm a bit frustrated and with a creature already in the graveyard, I have no chance to kill it with Darkblast. I just leave creatures to block and we run out of time. I know he definitely would have won, but I was a bit frustrated at this point at my night. 1-1-1.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I've been trying to make dredge work in modern recently as well. Bridge was clunky and inconsistent as mentioned before. Without dread return I don't think it's that good. I tried viscera seer and greater gargadon but I wasn't too happy. Right now I am playing a list that uses bloodghast, gravecrawler and prized amalgam. I also use lotleth troll for discard and as a beater. He can be a 5/4 or 6/5 easily on turn three and can just grow from there. Have people considered Street Wraith for the deck? Is the combo with Haakon, Stromgald Scourge and nameless inversion worth trying as well?
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Standard
none
Modern UBG B/U/G control BBB MBC WUR Control WWW Prison RRR Goblins
Legacy BBB Pox UBG B/U/G Control UWU StoneBlade UW Miracle Control
Haakon is very tempting, but I expect that it would take too much focus on him to make him good, and it would take something away from the main strategy. I feel like if Haakon ever really belongs in a deck, it will be something specifically made for him.
Street Wraith could be nice if card draw (that isn't looting) is something you're really looking for, but unless you're taking advantage of putting his body in the graveyard like Living Death does then you can probably find something better. This deck seems to only want creatures that do something from the graveyard on their own, you're not using other cards that want extra bodies in the yard.
I could be wrong, of course. I haven't put the time into testing that stuff, that's just my impression based on my own brewing.
If you are playing Lotleth Troll then Street Wraith might be superiour to Gitaxian Probe, IF you are playing the hardcore fast version, but most lists either have Troll or Probe i think. On another Note Wraith will make the occasional hardcasted GolgariGraveTroll bigger and might add extra 2 life to gnaw to the bone.
Only downside is you dont see the hand. But then again its instant speed card draw opposed to Probe.
Maybe Wraith really is an option in the lists that play Probe (and also try maybe LotlethTroll)
My current build. The sideboard is in flux. Folks will see the white leyline and wonder what's up, spells like rakdos charm and primal command are what's up. As well as cooling off discard, burn, or gifts ungiven. It's not designed to be hard cast. Love the interactions, especially things like paying for stitchwing at opponent's second main to recur amalgams for the next turn. Saccing neonate to discard grave-troll and immediately dredge makes me smile. Great fun. Mana is a bit of a gamble right now. Fetches for basic island and forest primarily to fend off blood moon.
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 City of Brass
4 Mana Confluence
1 Overgrown tomb
3 Polluted Delta
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
4 Faithless Looting
3 Tormenting Voice
4 Izzet Charm
Dudes 29
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Narcomoeba
4 Bloodghast
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Stitchwing Skaab
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
1 Conflagrate
Side
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Nature's Claim
2 Gnaw to the Bone
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
On loam: I feel like it should be in a deck that takes more advantage of being able to discard the extra land, like seismic assault or zombie infestation. One thing it does is give you a way to smash control with ghost quarters. I'm more on the swarm idea.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
3 stony silence
4 leyline of sanctity
3 leyline of the void
1 ancient grudge
3 abrupt decay
1 gnaw to the bone
Abrupt decay won't hit opponent's leyline of the void, which nature's claim does. But abrupt decay does hit stuff like scavenging ooze and withered wretch(!?!), of which I lost games to both. You can't avoid everything, but I think this package serves a wide range of matchups. Stony silence was added for relic of progenitus, which I thought I had covered with leyline but was wrong. Turns out it also hoses affinity, lantern, thopter foundry, etc. Still one grudge for the platinum angel matchups.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Yep, but axe doesn't destroy rest in peace, seal of primordium, or ghostly prison. Axe is an enabler but decay answers a bunch of my problems. Just more versatile.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
I'd also be interested in any dredge pro-tips or stories with this list you guys have had already?
The point to dredge is to utilize the graveyard as your hand, potentially getting dudes in play for free. You rarely actually draw cards so you'd need to start with it in hand. The way it cheats mana is different from dredging.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Fair enough. Judging from the latest Dredgevine list to finish a League, the main difference between this deck and Dredgevine is:
-Vengevine, -Lotleth Troll, -Gravecrawler;
+Nacromoebas, +Stichskin Skaab, +Tormenting Voice
1 Forest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
2 Copperline Gorge
2 Swamp
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodghast
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Gravecrawler
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Vengevine
2 Life from the Loam
4 Faithless Looting
2 Golgari Charm
2 Golgari Brownscale
2 Gnaw to the Bone
3 Darkblast
4 Ancient Grudge
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Speaking of blue the 3x Swan song i have in the SB it's maybe the most used spot in game 2-3.
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
Round 1 vs. budget Affinity. I punted the last game pretty badly. In game 1, he gets knocked down to 2 life on turn 4, facing much more than lethal next turn. I am at 7, facing 2 damage, so Galvanic Blast doesn't kill me. He draws Cranial Plating, wins, and we're on to game 2. I get Darkblast and use it to wipe his board while getting a Bloodghast, triggering a Prized Amalgam. I get there, even having 2 Ancient Grudge still in my graveyard. In the final game after a mull, I keep 4 lands and 2 Prized Amalgam. It was stupid of me. I scry land to the bottom. I draw 3 lands and another Prized Amalgam and lose. I honestly should have just mulled to a good hand, Darkblast, or Ancient Grudge. I believe that Swamp/Darkblast from a 2 card hand probably beats him. For some odd reason, I thought I could draw Darkblast, Ancient Grudge, Insolent Neonate, or Faithless Looting in 4 draws. 1-2.
Round 2 vs. Mono White creatures. I think this guy played in his first FNM ever and his deck was nearly just a bad Pauper deck. His mom even came in between the match to show him some weird card. I drew well and crushed him with a bunch of creatures. 2-0.
Round 3 vs. Kiki Chord. My friend borrowed my deck and did a punt last round. I was watching and knew for sure we'd play each other because of this, out of 43 other players. Sure enough, we did and he scooped to me and dropped. This hurt my tiebreakers, but I had more worries, as the next round showed. For what it's worth, I tested at home and it was 60/40 for Dredge vs. Kiki Chord. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. Merfolk. Not much to say here. My draw is somewhat slow, but decent enough to beat most decks. He plays turns 2, 3, and 5 Master of the Pearl Trident and that's game. He raced me and my creatures don't block. In the next game, he gets 3 Lords (2 of those Master of the Pearl Trident again ) and 2 Relic of Progenitus. By the time I do Ancient Grudge, probably incorrectly playing around his Cursecatcher and its flashback, he has too much pressure and I lose pretty easily. 0-2.
Round 5 vs. Mono Black Control. This guy plays a budget list. He usually does somewhat decently, but he hasn't done as well recently. I basically draw the nuts and he scoops with over 20 power on board and him at 5 life on turn 3. Three Insolent Neonate by turn 2 with Golgari Grave-Troll. The next game is similar and he scoops early. He had some cards to play, but saw the Ancient Grudge in my graveyard and unfortunately the cards were artifacts. 2-0.
Round 6 vs. GW Death and Taxes. His version is a bit different. He tells me that he has 4 Scavenging Ooze after the match. In game 1, he gets it and it does its work. I have to extend through a Lol Troll by discarding more creatures than he can exile with Ooze just to kill his Ooze. It works, but he draws his 4th Path to Exile the very next turn. I was a bit upset, especially since I was joking with him before the match and said, "I hope your deck doesn't play Path to Exile." He drew 3 by turn 5 and the last one a couple of turns later. I get enough creatures to kill him in game 2, although he had quite a few himself. In the last game, turn 2 Scavenging Ooze comes out again. I'm a bit frustrated and with a creature already in the graveyard, I have no chance to kill it with Darkblast. I just leave creatures to block and we run out of time. I know he definitely would have won, but I was a bit frustrated at this point at my night. 1-1-1.
I finish 13th at 3-2-1.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
Street Wraith could be nice if card draw (that isn't looting) is something you're really looking for, but unless you're taking advantage of putting his body in the graveyard like Living Death does then you can probably find something better. This deck seems to only want creatures that do something from the graveyard on their own, you're not using other cards that want extra bodies in the yard.
I could be wrong, of course. I haven't put the time into testing that stuff, that's just my impression based on my own brewing.
Only downside is you dont see the hand. But then again its instant speed card draw opposed to Probe.
Maybe Wraith really is an option in the lists that play Probe (and also try maybe LotlethTroll)