Remember that you only draw one card if multiple lands hit the graveyard at once, so Death Cloud, Scapeshift and Realms Unchanted will only ever draw you one card.
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In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
I think that this is being over-engineered. I haven't done any testing yet, but it seems to me that The Gitrog Monster is best at home in a Rock style deck.
I might start from something like this. Gitrog allows you to trade 1 for 1 with other decks, with the promise of an insane draw engine to make up for it later. The Raven's Crime lets you strip away hands, and with Gitrot each cast lets you draw a card.
It seems that combo decks with Gitrot are either A) too slow, B) require too much set up, or C) are easily disrupted. I'd rather put him into a B/G shell that is powerful on it's own, and becomes Synergy city when he's on the field.
Ghost Quarter is interesting, as it synergizes well with Gitrog and acts as a way to fight Tron.
The Putrefy might get replaced with a Darkblast, depending on common targets.
I was also debating upping the land count to 25, and swapping perhaps two of the lands for manlands. They play well with LftL, and provide more threats.
Remember that you only draw one card if multiple lands hit the graveyard at once, so Death Cloud, Scapeshift and Realms Unchanted will only ever draw you one card.
I did not see this at first. This effectively kills the combo potential of the card.
Remember that you only draw one card if multiple lands hit the graveyard at once, so Death Cloud, Scapeshift and Realms Unchanted will only ever draw you one card.
I did not see this at first. This effectively kills the combo potential of the card.
Not at all. You have to hit 1 land every 6 cards. You should easily be able to do that anyway.
Remember that you only draw one card if multiple lands hit the graveyard at once, so Death Cloud, Scapeshift and Realms Unchanted will only ever draw you one card.
I did not see this at first. This effectively kills the combo potential of the card.
It just means that the card isn't degenerate and a near 100% win every time it hits the board. You'd only need that 2-3 draw once to do really broken things.
How it is printed means that there is enough room to play around with it and possibly dredge your deck in one turn, but it's not guaranteed. You have to build in redundancies to accommodate for it.
Remember that you only draw one card if multiple lands hit the graveyard at once, so Death Cloud, Scapeshift and Realms Unchanted will only ever draw you one card.
I did not see this at first. This effectively kills the combo potential of the card.
It just means that the card isn't degenerate and a near 100% win every time it hits the board. You'd only need that 2-3 draw once to do really broken things.
How it is printed means that there is enough room to play around with it and possibly dredge your deck in one turn, but it's not guaranteed. You have to build in redundancies to accommodate for it.
It also means that you won't just kill yourself. Can you imagine dredging most of your library but then having to resolve 18 other draw triggers?
I haven't seen Drownyard Temple mentioned in this thread. Is it too slow or cost too much to bring back? Seems like ALRIGHT synergy with the Monster to be a 3cmc target to sac each turn. Heck, if you can get it to untap, you can tap it for C and then only need 2 more to bring it back during your upkeep. Might be worth a 2 or 3 of?? Maybe I'm totally wrong and it's just for standard
I haven't seen Drownyard Temple mentioned in this thread. Is it too slow or cost too much to bring back? Seems like ALRIGHT synergy with the Monster to be a 3cmc target to sac each turn. Heck, if you can get it to untap, you can tap it for C and then only need 2 more to bring it back during your upkeep. Might be worth a 2 or 3 of?? Maybe I'm totally wrong and it's just for standard
Just seems to me that paying 3 mana is too slow. If you get tot the point in the game that you are saccing/discarding lands and still managing to get 7-8 in play then there is going to be something better to do with your lands. I say 7-8 because you want the 2-3 to keep bringing it back each turn and then another 4-5 to keep playing stuff.
I would even go as far as add Knight of the Reliquary to the deck, remove Zombie Infestation at least partially and add some mana dorks. That way, you can fetch utility lands like Horizon Canopy and Bojuka Bog. There is surely much more to explore but I do not think a combo deck is where the Toad wants to be.
A Loam deck, after all. The rest should probably focus a little bit on the Gitrog synergy, but it has to be good playable cards, not fringe and weird cards (unless it allows instant winning positions). Dredge cards intrigue me (Darkblast, Golgari Thug), but unsure they're strong enough.
We can't load the list of 3-drops too much, so is Courser of Kruphix or Liliana of the Veil better ? I don't know.
There's nothing in the 4-drop slot either, not sure it's worth consideration.
I edited then, to 1 Salvage. I have no clue how many we must play so I'll follow your line. We can also recur it so I guess it's just a matter of finding when we already have Gitrog, and a tapped land in multiple is always a pain.
One may also like a creature land like Stirring Wildwood or Shambling Vents but one should trust Loam players to complete the manabase, they know best which lands are needed and which are meta calls.
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It couldn't hurt thmo throw something in like Vengeful Pharaoh. That's the kind of card I'd want to see when playing a graveyard deck against something Lingering Souls can't handle. I still stand behind at least a few Traverse the Ulvenwald in the maindeck to fetch stuff like Knight. To help with that playing Lily of the veil would be a great addition because we don't mind discarding cards and she offers so much utility on her own.
Here's a thought for a version of the deck that is a little more control-ish. Even though Tarmo can get big in the deck, I feel like a strategy of trying to lock down the opponent and force them into topdeck mode with mutual discard (Raven's Crime and Liliana), land recursion and Gitrog is the right way to go. The control aspect gives the deck resiliency.
Even though Tarmo can get big in the deck, I feel like a strategy of trying to lock down the opponent and force them into topdeck mode with mutual discard (Raven's Crime and Liliana), land recursion and Gitrog is the right way to go.
I don't see the reason not to play Tarmogoyf. If you played Damnations, I could see a reason there. If you played Ensnaring Bridge too.
The lockdown you're talking about doesn't interfer with Tarmo in the deck, plus that's a plan B for the midgame. Only 8-Rack has it as their plan A.
There are games where we don't draw Gitrog, so the deck must function without it,... well actually win without it. Tarmo + Knight + Souls is a great package. If you cut one (here you actually cut 2 pieces entirely !), you need to fill your deck with prison elements, and/or sweepers in order to stop the opponent from killing you.
I haven't seen Drownyard Temple mentioned in this thread. Is it too slow or cost too much to bring back? Seems like ALRIGHT synergy with the Monster to be a 3cmc target to sac each turn. Heck, if you can get it to untap, you can tap it for C and then only need 2 more to bring it back during your upkeep. Might be worth a 2 or 3 of?? Maybe I'm totally wrong and it's just for standard
Just seems to me that paying 3 mana is too slow. If you get tot the point in the game that you are saccing/discarding lands and still managing to get 7-8 in play then there is going to be something better to do with your lands. I say 7-8 because you want the 2-3 to keep bringing it back each turn and then another 4-5 to keep playing stuff.
^^this. The answer would be "because the Temple lets you play another land at the same time", but of course, Gitrog + Loam is two lands per turn anyways. Maybe run a 1-of if there are Bloodghasts in the deck, but it's a utility piece, not a key engine component.
Even though Tarmo can get big in the deck, I feel like a strategy of trying to lock down the opponent and force them into topdeck mode with mutual discard (Raven's Crime and Liliana), land recursion and Gitrog is the right way to go.
I don't see the reason not to play Tarmogoyf. If you played Damnations, I could see a reason there. If you played Ensnaring Bridge too.
The lockdown you're talking about doesn't interfer with Tarmo in the deck, plus that's a plan B for the midgame. Only 8-Rack has it as their plan A.
There are games where we don't draw Gitrog, so the deck must function without it,... well actually win without it. Tarmo + Knight + Souls is a great package. If you cut one (here you actually cut 2 pieces entirely !), you need to fill your deck with prison elements, and/or sweepers in order to stop the opponent from killing you.
What does Gitrog really contribute to this deck? Seems to me I'd rather put in Siege Rhinos and Scavenging Oozes. Gitrog may be a good SB piece for Abzan, to up the grind potential in the mirror, but I don't think it warrants playing multiple copies of if you're not breaking it with graveyard hax.
In decks that are running W, shouldn't there be a 1-of (maybe 2) Unburial Rites to be able to get the monster out of the yard in the case of "too much dredge"?
If you are running Heartless Summoning and Bridge from Below, I also highly recommend running Gravecrawler. It quickly becomes B: Make 2/2 Zombies equal to the number of Bridge from Belows in your Graveyard.
Splinterfright and Gitrog seem to have a lot of potential power together. Splinterfright mills 2 on upkeep and combined with some Dredge cards you can make a very large Splinterfright.
Splinterfright and Gitrog seem to have a lot of potential power together. Splinterfright mills 2 on upkeep and combined with some Dredge cards you can make a very large Splinterfright.
You'd need to give him haste. I still think the best combo course is to get necromeba's killed off by Heartless Summoning and then casting Ray of Revelation from the yard and blowing it so all your Zombies are 2/2's or you just make a ton of 2/2 Zombies at EOT with Zombie Infestation and just beating your opponent down.
What does Gitrog really contribute to this deck? Seems to me I'd rather put in Siege Rhinos and Scavenging Oozes. Gitrog may be a good SB piece for Abzan, to up the grind potential in the mirror, but I don't think it warrants playing multiple copies of if you're not breaking it with graveyard hax.
Gitrog has natural synergies with the deck Knight Loam (dredge, self discard, land toolbox). It doesn't nearly have as many in Abzan Midrange.
In a Loam shell, the 5-drop looks more powerful than the 4-mana Siege Rhino. Now, numbers may be tweaked, Scoozes and Rhinos can fit in the archetype anyway. I don't see why one would replace the other.
Now, I'm curious to see Gitrog abuse a graveyard strategy in a combo manner, which I believe is what you refer to. Sounds sweet and I definitely want to try it out as well.
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What does Gitrog really contribute to this deck? Seems to me I'd rather put in Siege Rhinos and Scavenging Oozes. Gitrog may be a good SB piece for Abzan, to up the grind potential in the mirror, but I don't think it warrants playing multiple copies of if you're not breaking it with graveyard hax.
Gitrog has natural synergies with the deck Knight Loam (dredge, self discard, land toolbox). It doesn't nearly have as many in Abzan Midrange.
In a Loam shell, the 5-drop looks more powerful than the 4-mana Siege Rhino. Now, numbers may be tweaked, Scoozes and Rhinos can fit in the archetype anyway. I don't see why one would replace the other.
Now, I'm curious to see Gitrog abuse a graveyard strategy in a combo manner, which I believe is what you refer to. Sounds sweet and I definitely want to try it out as well.
My problem with using KotR AND Dredge is that you could easily dredge one of the toolbox lands into your yard and now be unable to find it with Knight.
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 The Gitrog Monster
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dakmor Salvage
I might start from something like this. Gitrog allows you to trade 1 for 1 with other decks, with the promise of an insane draw engine to make up for it later. The Raven's Crime lets you strip away hands, and with Gitrot each cast lets you draw a card.
It seems that combo decks with Gitrot are either A) too slow, B) require too much set up, or C) are easily disrupted. I'd rather put him into a B/G shell that is powerful on it's own, and becomes Synergy city when he's on the field.
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Dakmor Salvage
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Eternal Witness
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 The Gitrog Monster
//Spells
3 Life from the Loam
3 Zombie Infestation
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Putrefy
1 Golgari Charm
2 Bile Blight
Ghost Quarter is interesting, as it synergizes well with Gitrog and acts as a way to fight Tron.
The Putrefy might get replaced with a Darkblast, depending on common targets.
I was also debating upping the land count to 25, and swapping perhaps two of the lands for manlands. They play well with LftL, and provide more threats.
I did not see this at first. This effectively kills the combo potential of the card.
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
Not at all. You have to hit 1 land every 6 cards. You should easily be able to do that anyway.
How it is printed means that there is enough room to play around with it and possibly dredge your deck in one turn, but it's not guaranteed. You have to build in redundancies to accommodate for it.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
It also means that you won't just kill yourself. Can you imagine dredging most of your library but then having to resolve 18 other draw triggers?
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
The most real option is that Life from the Loam is just better so why play Drownyard Temple at at all?
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I like this idea.
I would consider the core as :
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Lingering Souls
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Path to Exile
3 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
1 Gavony Township
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dakmor Salvage
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
A Loam deck, after all. The rest should probably focus a little bit on the Gitrog synergy, but it has to be good playable cards, not fringe and weird cards (unless it allows instant winning positions). Dredge cards intrigue me (Darkblast, Golgari Thug), but unsure they're strong enough.
We can't load the list of 3-drops too much, so is Courser of Kruphix or Liliana of the Veil better ? I don't know.
There's nothing in the 4-drop slot either, not sure it's worth consideration.
One may also like a creature land like Stirring Wildwood or Shambling Vents but one should trust Loam players to complete the manabase, they know best which lands are needed and which are meta calls.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
3x Courser of Kruphix
3x Knight of the Reliquary
4x The Gitrog Monster
//Planeswalkers: 4
4x Liliana of the Veil
//Spells: 19
1x Darkblast
4x Raven's Crime
1x Thoughtseize
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Life from the Loam
2x Anguished Unmaking
2x Dismember
3x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Dakmor Salvage
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Godless Shrine
1x Hissing Quagmire
2x Marsh Flats
4x Overgrown Tomb
1x Temple Garden
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
1x Plains
2x Forest
2x Swamp
I don't see the reason not to play Tarmogoyf. If you played Damnations, I could see a reason there. If you played Ensnaring Bridge too.
The lockdown you're talking about doesn't interfer with Tarmo in the deck, plus that's a plan B for the midgame. Only 8-Rack has it as their plan A.
There are games where we don't draw Gitrog, so the deck must function without it,... well actually win without it. Tarmo + Knight + Souls is a great package. If you cut one (here you actually cut 2 pieces entirely !), you need to fill your deck with prison elements, and/or sweepers in order to stop the opponent from killing you.
Here's my draft :
4 The Gitrog Monster
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Lingering Souls
2 Courser of Kruphix
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Birds of Paradise
Hand and Top Enablers:
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Raven's Crime
3 Life from the Loam
1 Darkblast
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Path to Exile
Lands:
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Gavony Township
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dakmor Salvage
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
2 Temple Garden
1 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Plains
^^this. The answer would be "because the Temple lets you play another land at the same time", but of course, Gitrog + Loam is two lands per turn anyways. Maybe run a 1-of if there are Bloodghasts in the deck, but it's a utility piece, not a key engine component.
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
What does Gitrog really contribute to this deck? Seems to me I'd rather put in Siege Rhinos and Scavenging Oozes. Gitrog may be a good SB piece for Abzan, to up the grind potential in the mirror, but I don't think it warrants playing multiple copies of if you're not breaking it with graveyard hax.
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
You'd need to give him haste. I still think the best combo course is to get necromeba's killed off by Heartless Summoning and then casting Ray of Revelation from the yard and blowing it so all your Zombies are 2/2's or you just make a ton of 2/2 Zombies at EOT with Zombie Infestation and just beating your opponent down.
Gitrog has natural synergies with the deck Knight Loam (dredge, self discard, land toolbox). It doesn't nearly have as many in Abzan Midrange.
In a Loam shell, the 5-drop looks more powerful than the 4-mana Siege Rhino. Now, numbers may be tweaked, Scoozes and Rhinos can fit in the archetype anyway. I don't see why one would replace the other.
Now, I'm curious to see Gitrog abuse a graveyard strategy in a combo manner, which I believe is what you refer to. Sounds sweet and I definitely want to try it out as well.
My problem with using KotR AND Dredge is that you could easily dredge one of the toolbox lands into your yard and now be unable to find it with Knight.
Yeah, I'm just unconvinced about it there.