Concerns:
- I don't have much permanent removal, like for artifacts or enchantments.
- Not that many creatures. I'm running Vial, maybe should have more?
- Too many lands? I feel like with the Vials, lands are kind of dead draws after I get it ticked up.
Supreme Verdict is kind of a nonbo with Worship, even if you have Selfless Spirit it's basically one or the other.
The manabase is a little strange, but I guess it works.
I agree with you on creatures. Run more if you want to use vial. Also Spectral Processions are weird in a vial deck. Lingering souls is generally better anyway.
Try out Eidolon of Rhetoric in the sideboard.
Not sure about the land count because I don't play with vial. Pretty sure that you just count them as lands, but don't take my word for it.
D-sphere isn't really needed in the main, for a lot of matchups the 4th pte will just be better.
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Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Nikachu (a prolific Merfolk streamer) just posted a match vs a Bant Spirits. It's an "8 Seas" merfolk build vs an interesting spirits build with Nebelghast Herald..
4 Matches -- Wins: 3 Losses: 1
Rank: 3rd of 11 people playing
Match 1: vs. Infect, win 2-0
Not too much to say about this-- it was a sub-optimal version of the deck.
Game 1 - win: Removed his creatures with Paths, countered pump spells, etc.
Game 2 - win: Out: Aether Vial x4, In: Blessed Alliance x2, Ghostly Prison x2. Made the win even easier.
Match 2: vs. Affinity, loss 1-2
I actually had a very real chance of winning if it was not for a misplay in round 3.
Game 1 - loss: Aether Vials are too slow against aggro decks like this. Too slow to get a win either way.
Game 2 - win: Out: Aether Vial x4, In: Ghostly Prison x2, Stony Silence x2. Stony Silence does work. Easy win once it came down.
Game 3 - loss: I got intimidated by a creature that had Cranial Plating attached. I really could have taken the hit and played Stony Silence, but I was stupid and Pathed it instead. In came Etched Champion and on went the plating. Stony Silence couldn't help me at that point. I could have done Stony Silence, taken a big hit, and then Pathed the creature the next turn and I would have been fine. Ah well.
Match 3: vs. ...some kind of homebrew?, win 2-0
This deck was full of interesting (and expensive) threats like Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite (to cheat in with Unburial Rites), but was running all colors and was trying to do too much with it. This deck didn't belong to the kid playing, and the kid was far too impatient and panicked way too easily. He clearly knew how this mess of a deck worked, but he just wasn't a good pilot of it. You just can't tilt out so easily and expect to win.
Game 1 - win: Out-tempo'd him.
Game 2- win: Out: Favorable Winds x3, Aether Vial x1, In: Ghostly Prison x2, Rest in Peace x2. Actually kind of a stressful game because the kid was freaking out and not thinking anything through. Super uncomfortable to play with. Still, once Stony Silence came down, it wasn't too hard to finish him off.
Match 4: vs Free Win Red, win 2-1
I was actually really hoping I didn't face this guy. I saw him playing against other people and he was playing this deck, which had 4 Blood Moon and 4 Ensnaring Bridges, both of which are a nightmare for us to deal with. I didn't even know what this deck was called until I Googled "Red Ensnaring Bridge" and found that he was running this exact deck.
Game 1 - loss: He had all 4 Bridges down and Blood Moon out, and I was more or less locked out. Worship came down before the Blood Moon and was a lifesaver, and Aether Vial let me get Geist of Saint Traft out, which kept him from killing me or winning. However, since this is a VERY long and boring process, I accidentally played into the trap of attacking with Geist and letting it get blocked by Magus of the Moon, which let him tap Mountains (post-Koth ult) and finish me off. Boring game leads to careless mistakes.
Game 2 - win: Out: Favorable Winds x3, Path to Exile x1, In: Leyline of Sanctity x2, Pithing Needle x2. Much better draws let me Queller down Ensnaring Bridges. Wasn't too hard to win after that-- Blood Moon is no concern with Aether Vials out.
Game 3 - win: I thought this was hopeless because I ended up keeping a very bad hand, but only because it had an Aether Vial and 2 Quellers. Didn't let him get ANYTHING down. I don't think he was very happy after that...
So yes! I do think this deck does pretty well. Quite happy with the results and I'll have to play it again sometime.
Definitely going to recommend the sideboard I used against Jund/Affinity/Infect/Burn.
Rest in Peace interferes with Jund's biggest threats (Goyf becomes worthless, Scooze can't use its ability, Kalitas can't use his ability) and Leyline of Sanctity stops you from getting burned or Thoughtseized/IOK'd, as well as protecting you from Liliana of the Veil's forced sacrifice.
Ghostly Prison and Stony Silence debilitates Affinity (It makes most of their mana sources worthless, and also stops Arcbound Ravager and Steel Overseer-- and they can't use Cranial Plating either), Ghostly Prison slows them down, and just locks them out Stony Silence is out they have no mana sources to tap.
Ghostly Prison and Blessed Alliance gives Infect a very hard time (Blessed Alliance's edict effect works around Vines of Vastwood). Of course, that can backfire if they play Dryad Arbor for that specific reason, so pack a full set of Path to Exile too. Ghostly Prison cripples their strategy as well, since they can't tap out on pump spells.
Leyline of Sanctity and Worship ruins Burn's day since we have so many ways to interfere with creature removal otherwise. Eidolon of the Great Revel is troublesome, but you can use removal on it (and if I understand it right, Aether Vial is a way around it since you're not actually casting the creature). But even then, get a Geist of Saint Traft or double Captain down and they literally cannot win if you get Worship out. That's what happened vs. that "Free Win Red" deck I mentioned-- had I not gotten impatient and careless, I would have won the first round by making him, over time, mill himself out. I had Geist and Worship out and he could burn me all he wanted-- my life wouldn't ever drop past 1 as long as I had a creature he couldn't kill.
I'll be trying out tectonic edge as a way to negate the extra land from path to exile, improving mana leak and mausoleum wanderer. 4x nebelghast because for some reason there are tons of eldrazi decks in my meta...
I'm also going to try out bant CoCo post standard rotation (hoping CoCo's value drops because it is the only card i'm missing, along cavern of souls):
I don't quite know what to make of UW Spirits. In some games, I feel like a bad Merfolk deck, and in fact I think Merfolk is a fairly terrible match-up. Some games I feel like a tribal DnT or GW Hatebears. I am, as a result, trying to develop a sense of what the strengths and weaknesses of the deck and card selection are. I don't like Bant because I don't like CoCo and rampers and bad mana bases, so I am only discussing UW.
The Core Cards Spell Queller, the card seemed to single-handedly make this a deck (which it did not really do single-handedly.) So counter magic and flying are very strong in the deck and UW are mandatory colors.
Rattlechains, a card that was huge to making Spirits playable because 1) it has flash, 2) it counters removal spells targeting Spirits regardless of their being uncounterable, 2) it gives all your other spirits flash, all of which is a huge benefit and a great impetus towards a tribal build.
Mausoleum Wanderer, A.K.A. the strictly betterCursecatcher, with it's even deeper impetus towards tribal. Counter target instant or sorcery unless your opponent pays x where x is the power of your MW, Prowess when a spirit enters the board. Sweet.
Kira, the Great Glass-Spinner, a card few seem to appreciate. If this card is gas in Merfolk, imagine what it is like in a deck where it can be flashed in as well as Vialed in and provides huge protection. Sure, you only want two at most, but still, it is so good because it forces your opponents to kill it, which is more easily said than done given the first three cards which protect it very powerfully. When you can protect your protector, that's great, especially against targeted removal which dominate Modern.
Geist of Saint Traft is a colossally under-costed beat stick that is so hard to remove without a sweeper. Yes, it is a 2/2 on the ground and that is a liability, but it is surprisingly effective when you flash it in, Vial it in, and find ways to pump it. Unchallenged, it is incredibly brutal against many decks.
Selfless Spirit, a card I think is slightly over-rated because it is ultimately a 2/1 suicide flyer and it is mostly good against decks with sweeper and otherwise lackluster because it doesn't otherwise slow anyone down. Bad against Path to Exile, Wasteland Strangler, etc, it is nowhere as good as Rattlechains, especially since it lacks flash itself. I mostly like it as a sideboard card.
Æther Vial is the cornerstone that increases our flash content and allows us to go lower on mana. Uncounterable counter creatures and two or more spells a turn with 3 mana out is huge value. Much better than CoCo for this deck and a card you can take out in some matches, especially with the 8 flash creatures in the deck.
The Ugly Ducklings (You Ought to Run!) Eidolon of Rhetoric is so much better with flash/Vial. We are not a spell-casting deck, so why not drag your opponent's into the mud? This card has huge synergy with Kira (with both out, no one will ever break the Kira shield) and Spell Queller (if they kill a Queller, their spell remains exile if they can't kill EoR (yes, pronounce it Eeh-or, like the Donkey from Winnie the Pooh, because it makes everything slow and depressed.) Never mind that, if you flash or Vial it in in response to your opponent's spell on the stack, they are done. This card is also amazing against decks that want to cast lots of spells: Burn, Storm, Infect. And a 1/4 body is hugely relevant, especially game 1 against many decks.
Drogskol Captain seems somewhat undervalued, probably because it is the only real lord Spirits have and it doesn't protect itself and it has a cost of 3, unlike Lord of Atlantis and the like. However, combined with Phantasmal Illusion and Kira, this card is immensely powerful because it is also a flyer and with two out, only sweepers are meaningful.
Spirit of the Labyrinth is a 3/1 for 2, a singularly undervalued rate in this deck, but considered pure gold in aggro decks. It also stops draw spells, which I don't think this decks wants to have. Not only does it piss on Storm and Control decks, it also is a drag for Merfolk, since they lost 8 cantrips with this out.
Phantasmal Image, the relentless 1-of that becomes whatever card you most need at the moment for 2. I especially like this card if you commit to Drogskol Captain. It is also completely fair to Vial this in copying Emrakul or some other Reanimator fatty.
Spell Pierce or Remand. Sometimes you need an extra way to stop your opponent early and since I think you often want to counter something early, Spell Pierce gets my nod. Even more than Merfolk, you want 1 mana counterspells because you have Wanderer and Queller and the like.
Not In My Tribe (but I Love You Anyway) Leonin Arbiter, a card that in some ways seems obvious if you want to go with the mana-denial/search-denial plan. However, I think this card needs a host of other mana-denial strategies to max it out or ways to speed it in. That's why it teams so well with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Aven Mindcensor, Noble Hierarch, and the like. In this deck, I think it mainly weaken the manabase by demanding 4 Ghost Quarter. To build on this, I think you move to a UW Hatebears deck and away from Tribal and it basically uses Spell Queller and Selfless Spirit and maybe EoR.
I don't like the approaches that pit this halfway between Merfolk and Delver, with 12 or more spells, including 4 cantrips. We don't have aggressive 1 drops and even our 2 drops are mostly defensive. Our best creatures are at cmc3. This is where I think the deck is more like DnT and Hatebears. However, I think it is a worse Hatebears or DnT deck than GW or BW because it loses some powerful cards in GW.
Sideboard Dispel might be great here for Infect, Burn, and the like.
Rest in Peace is an auto 2-of, especially with all the graveyard decks now.
Stony Silence and Kataki, War's Wage for Lantern, Affinity and Tron. I don't play a lot of Tron, but I see a ton of Robots and Lantern, so I go 1 Stony and 2 Kataki.
Engineered Explosives is amazingly good, especially against decks that swarm better than we do, like Merfolk. It is also really effective against Death's Shadow Zoo. This card does make me want to play Bant to get to 3 colors against Lantern. Then I could go all in on Stony and drop the Katakis. On the other hand, playing it on 1 or 2 destroys the decks we need it against.
Kami of False Hope is a delight against aggro decks, allowing us to win on the swing-back. Such a great way to make Infect, Merfolk, Reanimator (no lifegain for Griselbrand), Death's Shadow Aggro and the like very sad. I run it as a 3-of.
UW Spiteful Spirits or Playing the Deck
I see this as a Tribal Aggro-Control deck along the lines of Merfolk with different strengths and weaknesses.
It is Tribal because it gains a lot of synergy from being all Spirits, as do Merfolk, Eldrazi, Elves, and Goblins.
It is a Tempo deck because it can deploy lots of synergistic, mutually-protecting threats, but it does lack the sudden win power of Merfolk, or the raw aggression of Elves, Goblins, and Eldrazi.
Instead, it is more of a Hatebear-style deck which has a specific hate set (counter-magic, tempo control) and an amazing combination of evasion (hexproof and flying) that makes a lot of the removal in other decks fairly bad. Given all of this, I have been considering if 6 removal spells and no counterspells proper is the way to go.
I know that is pretty thin, so here is a deck list I am testing.
I know it has been discussed before, but is anyone still trying out beckon apparition? Seems like graveyard shenanigans are in every deck these days. For those who tried it has it been any good?
I know it has been discussed before, but is anyone still trying out beckon apparition? Seems like graveyard shenanigans are in every deck these days. For those who tried it has it been any good?
I think it's better to just run the land Moorland Haunt so we dont take up space from the spells. And the land last not the instant, so we can use it lategame
Thanks for your considered and interesting post. I've been edging towards a "hate spirits" build myself but I agree the key to unlocking spirits is finding the right balance of hate/tempo/aggro. Your comments on the hate cards have provided food for thought.
First off, about your list:
* why both Kataki and Stony Silence ? Spread your threats ? Is it because you vial in Kataki or? (I'm missing why you wouldn't just pick the stronger of the two)
* with Kira, Geist, Thalia and Kataki in your list you might consider Eiganjo Castle.
* Why Declaration in Stone over Detention Sphere ?
* You mention Spirit of the Labyrinth shutting down 8 merfolk cantrips, but it's really just 4 as they'll just vial in their Silvergill Adepts
My current build (still in flux) is heavy on the hate side of things and I am trying to bring in the Leonin Arbiter/Ghost Quarter package that you rejected. I'm still relatively new to actually playing modern (I theorycraft and read a lot but not much actual play time) and you've listed experience with both GW Hatebears AND DnT so you probably have a better feel as to how/why the hate isn't as strong as the tribal synergy you've built upon.
Stuff going through my head:
* I don't think 4 Ghostquarters isn't too much of a stretch - what could wrong? Famous last words I know, but few cards (Kira and Brimaz) in my build require double colours and hopefully they'll be vialed in anyway.
* Kira is such a beater and synergizes so well with Eidolon of Rhetoric, maybe she's a three-of?
* Is the land base too greedy and thus too week to Blood Moon effects?
* Is Brimaz is a bit cute? He's great value but maybe Geist should be in this spot..
* Spirit of the Labyrinth / Geier Reach Sanitarium lock is so delightful but again, maybe too cute?
* Dragonlord Ojutai as a finisher? He gets around Spirit of the Labyrinth
* New Thalia seems pretty sweet to slow down aggro and greedy land bases..
* Sideboard probably needs tweaking
* Is Leyline of Sanctity widely considered a good card? It doesn't appear in many lists anymore and some of the pros are actively disparaging about it. Maybe I've been lucky the times I've brought it in but it's been good so far.
First off, about your list:
* why both Kataki and Stony Silence ? Spread your threats ? Is it because you vial in Kataki or? (I'm missing why you wouldn't just pick the stronger of the two)
* with Kira, Geist, Thalia and Kataki in your list you might consider Eiganjo Castle.
* Why Declaration in Stone over Detention Sphere ?
* You mention Spirit of the Labyrinth shutting down 8 merfolk cantrips, but it's really just 4 as they'll just vial in their Silvergill Adept
I guess drawing one kataki and one stony silence is much, much better than drawing 2 stony silence. Also kataki can be protected from removal with other spirit. Kira, great glass spinner interacts poorly with eiganjo castle, because caslte will break her shield. Only useful if they try to kill her with double lightning bolt, but i'm not sure it is worth it.
Regarding merfolk they don't always have vial turn one. Having spirit of the labyrinth turn 2 on the play can be very good vs their no vial hands.
Dovin Baan seems like he might deserve a spot in our decks.
Let's take a look at what he does for us:
+1: -3/-0 and can't activate abilities
Completely shuts down a lot of creatures in Modern, and help us survive combat against others. Very useful ability. Here's a list of creatures to target:
And that's just naming a few! His +1 is VERY good and underrated in Modern.
-1 gains 2 life and a card
Well here's the card advantage engine that we've been waiting for. For one, it nets you a card, but it also gains you life to keep you in the game. The incremental value of this ability will win games if left unchecked. Although it seems underwhelming, it's just what the deck needed, and it shores up our bad matchups.
-7
It's a game winning ultimate, the last piece to a good planeswalker.
But why include a planeswalker when you can play, say Ojutai's Command?
Well, Planeswalkers aren't just good for doing some cool stuff then dying, they also work as a meat shield that protects your valuable life total. Dovin gains you life if left unanswered, or slows down your opponent and soaks up damage if they pay attention to him. And then he threatens to ultimate if your opponent forgets about him.
So in my opinion, Dovin Baan is exactly what the deck needs as a finisher.
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Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Idk, I like Dovin as a card but I don't think he's giving us anything we couldn't already get from Jace, architect of thought he's certainly worth testing but I think our 4 drop slot is better spent on Cryptic command, Ojutai's command, and worship
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
So i've been enjoying this deck since last week, very fun and feels strong. Nebelgast has been very good. Only issue is running out of gas sometimes, so i'll try out ojutai's command to try and fix this.
The deck feels very good, and it's a blast to play with, but it's showing nowhere competitively. I just want it to put some results and see a pro's list, c'mon Sam Black, do your thing.
Did not get to pull off the spirit of the labyrinth/geier reach sanitarium at all, expect one game for fun and my opponent scooped. Was the only game i drew sanitarium. Not sure if worth it but i'll keep it for now...
Rest in peace will go, it was there from the u/w version and i forgot it screws lingering souls badly, lol. Can't play grafdigger's cage either because of that, any ideas for a substitute? There's leyline of the void but it is pretty random so i'm not a fan...
Relic plays pretty well with souls because you can wait to pop it until the opportune moment, but a lot of the decks RIP is good against (Dredge, living end, Goyro) are so weak to it that sacrificing 1/2 a lingering souls to shut down our opponents whole deck can often be worth it. I have tested w/ both and in a vacuum Relic is the better card for us (multiples cycle, plays well w/ souls) but in the current dredge prevalent environment (expect even more thanks to Cathartic Reunion) RIP might be a fine meta choice
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Relic plays pretty well with souls because you can wait to pop it until the opportune moment, but a lot of the decks RIP is good against (Dredge, living end, Goyro) are so weak to it that sacrificing 1/2 a lingering souls to shut down our opponents whole deck can often be worth it. I have tested w/ both and in a vacuum Relic is the better card for us (multiples cycle, plays well w/ souls) but in the current dredge prevalent environment (expect even more thanks to Cathartic Reunion) RIP might be a fine meta choice
Thanks for the imput, i came to the same conclusion and included 2x relic in my sideboard. I really wanted access to both halves of souls when playing vs g/b midrange like jund. Souls is great here and relic is almost as good as RIP (better in some situations because of card drawing).
Absolutely, in the gbx matchups souls is pretty much our best card so getting max value out of it is key. I know this thread has slowed down but I'm glad other people are still quietly testing like I am. Hopefully we'll get a nice in-tribe 2 drop from Amonkhet
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
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Supreme Verdict is kind of a nonbo with Worship, even if you have Selfless Spirit it's basically one or the other.
The manabase is a little strange, but I guess it works.
I agree with you on creatures. Run more if you want to use vial. Also Spectral Processions are weird in a vial deck. Lingering souls is generally better anyway.
Try out Eidolon of Rhetoric in the sideboard.
Not sure about the land count because I don't play with vial. Pretty sure that you just count them as lands, but don't take my word for it.
D-sphere isn't really needed in the main, for a lot of matchups the 4th pte will just be better.
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Nikachu (a prolific Merfolk streamer) just posted a match vs a Bant Spirits. It's an "8 Seas" merfolk build vs an interesting spirits build with Nebelghast Herald..
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Rattlechains
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Spell Queller
4 Drogskol Captain
3 Nebelgast Herald
1 Geist of Saint Traft
Spells (15)
4 AEther Vial
4 Path to Exile
3 Favorable Winds
3 Remand
1 Worship
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Glacial Fortress
1 Moorland Haunt
6 Island
6 Plains
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Pithing Needle
2 Spreading Seas
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
Results!
4 Matches -- Wins: 3 Losses: 1
Rank: 3rd of 11 people playing
Match 1: vs. Infect, win 2-0
Not too much to say about this-- it was a sub-optimal version of the deck.
Game 1 - win: Removed his creatures with Paths, countered pump spells, etc.
Game 2 - win: Out: Aether Vial x4, In: Blessed Alliance x2, Ghostly Prison x2. Made the win even easier.
Match 2: vs. Affinity, loss 1-2
I actually had a very real chance of winning if it was not for a misplay in round 3.
Game 1 - loss: Aether Vials are too slow against aggro decks like this. Too slow to get a win either way.
Game 2 - win: Out: Aether Vial x4, In: Ghostly Prison x2, Stony Silence x2. Stony Silence does work. Easy win once it came down.
Game 3 - loss: I got intimidated by a creature that had Cranial Plating attached. I really could have taken the hit and played Stony Silence, but I was stupid and Pathed it instead. In came Etched Champion and on went the plating. Stony Silence couldn't help me at that point. I could have done Stony Silence, taken a big hit, and then Pathed the creature the next turn and I would have been fine. Ah well.
Match 3: vs. ...some kind of homebrew?, win 2-0
This deck was full of interesting (and expensive) threats like Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite (to cheat in with Unburial Rites), but was running all colors and was trying to do too much with it. This deck didn't belong to the kid playing, and the kid was far too impatient and panicked way too easily. He clearly knew how this mess of a deck worked, but he just wasn't a good pilot of it. You just can't tilt out so easily and expect to win.
Game 1 - win: Out-tempo'd him.
Game 2- win: Out: Favorable Winds x3, Aether Vial x1, In: Ghostly Prison x2, Rest in Peace x2. Actually kind of a stressful game because the kid was freaking out and not thinking anything through. Super uncomfortable to play with. Still, once Stony Silence came down, it wasn't too hard to finish him off.
Match 4: vs Free Win Red, win 2-1
I was actually really hoping I didn't face this guy. I saw him playing against other people and he was playing this deck, which had 4 Blood Moon and 4 Ensnaring Bridges, both of which are a nightmare for us to deal with. I didn't even know what this deck was called until I Googled "Red Ensnaring Bridge" and found that he was running this exact deck.
Game 1 - loss: He had all 4 Bridges down and Blood Moon out, and I was more or less locked out. Worship came down before the Blood Moon and was a lifesaver, and Aether Vial let me get Geist of Saint Traft out, which kept him from killing me or winning. However, since this is a VERY long and boring process, I accidentally played into the trap of attacking with Geist and letting it get blocked by Magus of the Moon, which let him tap Mountains (post-Koth ult) and finish me off. Boring game leads to careless mistakes.
Game 2 - win: Out: Favorable Winds x3, Path to Exile x1, In: Leyline of Sanctity x2, Pithing Needle x2. Much better draws let me Queller down Ensnaring Bridges. Wasn't too hard to win after that-- Blood Moon is no concern with Aether Vials out.
Game 3 - win: I thought this was hopeless because I ended up keeping a very bad hand, but only because it had an Aether Vial and 2 Quellers. Didn't let him get ANYTHING down. I don't think he was very happy after that...
So yes! I do think this deck does pretty well. Quite happy with the results and I'll have to play it again sometime.
WB Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim | WBR Queen Marchesa | WUBR Breya, Etherium Shaper
Modern:
/ Death and Taxes | W/ Soul Sisters | Spirits | U Faeries | Tempered Steel Affinity
Rest in Peace interferes with Jund's biggest threats (Goyf becomes worthless, Scooze can't use its ability, Kalitas can't use his ability) and Leyline of Sanctity stops you from getting burned or Thoughtseized/IOK'd, as well as protecting you from Liliana of the Veil's forced sacrifice.
Ghostly Prison and Stony Silence debilitates Affinity (It makes most of their mana sources worthless, and also stops Arcbound Ravager and Steel Overseer-- and they can't use Cranial Plating either), Ghostly Prison slows them down, and just locks them out Stony Silence is out they have no mana sources to tap.
Ghostly Prison and Blessed Alliance gives Infect a very hard time (Blessed Alliance's edict effect works around Vines of Vastwood). Of course, that can backfire if they play Dryad Arbor for that specific reason, so pack a full set of Path to Exile too. Ghostly Prison cripples their strategy as well, since they can't tap out on pump spells.
Leyline of Sanctity and Worship ruins Burn's day since we have so many ways to interfere with creature removal otherwise. Eidolon of the Great Revel is troublesome, but you can use removal on it (and if I understand it right, Aether Vial is a way around it since you're not actually casting the creature). But even then, get a Geist of Saint Traft or double Captain down and they literally cannot win if you get Worship out. That's what happened vs. that "Free Win Red" deck I mentioned-- had I not gotten impatient and careless, I would have won the first round by making him, over time, mill himself out. I had Geist and Worship out and he could burn me all he wanted-- my life wouldn't ever drop past 1 as long as I had a creature he couldn't kill.
WB Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim | WBR Queen Marchesa | WUBR Breya, Etherium Shaper
Modern:
/ Death and Taxes | W/ Soul Sisters | Spirits | U Faeries | Tempered Steel Affinity
4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept heath
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Plains
2 Island
4 Seachrome coast
2 Moorland haunt
2 Tectonic edge
Creatures 26
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Rattlechains
2 Anafenza, kin-tree spirit
4 Spell Queller
4 Drogskol captain
4 Nebelgast herald
4 Path to exile
4 Mana leak
artifact: 4
4 Aether vial
1 Kataki, war's wage
2 Eidolon of rhetoric
2 Azorius herald
2 Spirit of the labyrinth
2 Detention sphere
2 Rest in peace
1 Stony silence
2 Pay no heed
1 Dispel
I'll be trying out tectonic edge as a way to negate the extra land from path to exile, improving mana leak and mausoleum wanderer. 4x nebelghast because for some reason there are tons of eldrazi decks in my meta...
I'm also going to try out bant CoCo post standard rotation (hoping CoCo's value drops because it is the only card i'm missing, along cavern of souls):
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
2 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
2 Plains
1 Forest
1 Island
2 Razorverge thicket
2 Cavern of souls
2 Moorland haunt
4 Noble hierarch
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Rattlechains
2 Anafenza, kin-tree spirit
4 Spell Queller
4 Drogskol captain
4 Nebelgast herald
Instants 8
4 path to exile
4 collected company
1 Kataki, war's wage
2 Eidolon of rhetoric
2 Azorius herald
2 Spirit of the labyrinth
2 Detention sphere
2 Rest in peace
1 Stony silence
2 Pay no heed
1 Dispel
The Core Cards
Spell Queller, the card seemed to single-handedly make this a deck (which it did not really do single-handedly.) So counter magic and flying are very strong in the deck and UW are mandatory colors.
Rattlechains, a card that was huge to making Spirits playable because 1) it has flash, 2) it counters removal spells targeting Spirits regardless of their being uncounterable, 2) it gives all your other spirits flash, all of which is a huge benefit and a great impetus towards a tribal build.
Mausoleum Wanderer, A.K.A. the strictly better Cursecatcher, with it's even deeper impetus towards tribal. Counter target instant or sorcery unless your opponent pays x where x is the power of your MW, Prowess when a spirit enters the board. Sweet.
Kira, the Great Glass-Spinner, a card few seem to appreciate. If this card is gas in Merfolk, imagine what it is like in a deck where it can be flashed in as well as Vialed in and provides huge protection. Sure, you only want two at most, but still, it is so good because it forces your opponents to kill it, which is more easily said than done given the first three cards which protect it very powerfully. When you can protect your protector, that's great, especially against targeted removal which dominate Modern.
Geist of Saint Traft is a colossally under-costed beat stick that is so hard to remove without a sweeper. Yes, it is a 2/2 on the ground and that is a liability, but it is surprisingly effective when you flash it in, Vial it in, and find ways to pump it. Unchallenged, it is incredibly brutal against many decks.
Selfless Spirit, a card I think is slightly over-rated because it is ultimately a 2/1 suicide flyer and it is mostly good against decks with sweeper and otherwise lackluster because it doesn't otherwise slow anyone down. Bad against Path to Exile, Wasteland Strangler, etc, it is nowhere as good as Rattlechains, especially since it lacks flash itself. I mostly like it as a sideboard card.
Æther Vial is the cornerstone that increases our flash content and allows us to go lower on mana. Uncounterable counter creatures and two or more spells a turn with 3 mana out is huge value. Much better than CoCo for this deck and a card you can take out in some matches, especially with the 8 flash creatures in the deck.
Path to Exile, the only real removal choice.
The Ugly Ducklings (You Ought to Run!)
Eidolon of Rhetoric is so much better with flash/Vial. We are not a spell-casting deck, so why not drag your opponent's into the mud? This card has huge synergy with Kira (with both out, no one will ever break the Kira shield) and Spell Queller (if they kill a Queller, their spell remains exile if they can't kill EoR (yes, pronounce it Eeh-or, like the Donkey from Winnie the Pooh, because it makes everything slow and depressed.) Never mind that, if you flash or Vial it in in response to your opponent's spell on the stack, they are done. This card is also amazing against decks that want to cast lots of spells: Burn, Storm, Infect. And a 1/4 body is hugely relevant, especially game 1 against many decks.
Drogskol Captain seems somewhat undervalued, probably because it is the only real lord Spirits have and it doesn't protect itself and it has a cost of 3, unlike Lord of Atlantis and the like. However, combined with Phantasmal Illusion and Kira, this card is immensely powerful because it is also a flyer and with two out, only sweepers are meaningful.
Spirit of the Labyrinth is a 3/1 for 2, a singularly undervalued rate in this deck, but considered pure gold in aggro decks. It also stops draw spells, which I don't think this decks wants to have. Not only does it piss on Storm and Control decks, it also is a drag for Merfolk, since they lost 8 cantrips with this out.
Phantasmal Image, the relentless 1-of that becomes whatever card you most need at the moment for 2. I especially like this card if you commit to Drogskol Captain. It is also completely fair to Vial this in copying Emrakul or some other Reanimator fatty.
Spell Pierce or Remand. Sometimes you need an extra way to stop your opponent early and since I think you often want to counter something early, Spell Pierce gets my nod. Even more than Merfolk, you want 1 mana counterspells because you have Wanderer and Queller and the like.
Declaration in Stone is something I am testing as a 2-of.
Not In My Tribe (but I Love You Anyway)
Leonin Arbiter, a card that in some ways seems obvious if you want to go with the mana-denial/search-denial plan. However, I think this card needs a host of other mana-denial strategies to max it out or ways to speed it in. That's why it teams so well with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Aven Mindcensor, Noble Hierarch, and the like. In this deck, I think it mainly weaken the manabase by demanding 4 Ghost Quarter. To build on this, I think you move to a UW Hatebears deck and away from Tribal and it basically uses Spell Queller and Selfless Spirit and maybe EoR.
I don't like the approaches that pit this halfway between Merfolk and Delver, with 12 or more spells, including 4 cantrips. We don't have aggressive 1 drops and even our 2 drops are mostly defensive. Our best creatures are at cmc3. This is where I think the deck is more like DnT and Hatebears. However, I think it is a worse Hatebears or DnT deck than GW or BW because it loses some powerful cards in GW.
Sideboard
Dispel might be great here for Infect, Burn, and the like.
Rest in Peace is an auto 2-of, especially with all the graveyard decks now.
Stony Silence and Kataki, War's Wage for Lantern, Affinity and Tron. I don't play a lot of Tron, but I see a ton of Robots and Lantern, so I go 1 Stony and 2 Kataki.
Engineered Explosives is amazingly good, especially against decks that swarm better than we do, like Merfolk. It is also really effective against Death's Shadow Zoo. This card does make me want to play Bant to get to 3 colors against Lantern. Then I could go all in on Stony and drop the Katakis. On the other hand, playing it on 1 or 2 destroys the decks we need it against.
Kami of False Hope is a delight against aggro decks, allowing us to win on the swing-back. Such a great way to make Infect, Merfolk, Reanimator (no lifegain for Griselbrand), Death's Shadow Aggro and the like very sad. I run it as a 3-of.
UW Spiteful Spirits or Playing the Deck
I see this as a Tribal Aggro-Control deck along the lines of Merfolk with different strengths and weaknesses.
It is Tribal because it gains a lot of synergy from being all Spirits, as do Merfolk, Eldrazi, Elves, and Goblins.
It is a Tempo deck because it can deploy lots of synergistic, mutually-protecting threats, but it does lack the sudden win power of Merfolk, or the raw aggression of Elves, Goblins, and Eldrazi.
Instead, it is more of a Hatebear-style deck which has a specific hate set (counter-magic, tempo control) and an amazing combination of evasion (hexproof and flying) that makes a lot of the removal in other decks fairly bad. Given all of this, I have been considering if 6 removal spells and no counterspells proper is the way to go.
I know that is pretty thin, so here is a deck list I am testing.
4x Mausoleum Wanderer
4x Rattlechains
4x Spell Queller
4x Drogskol Captain
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Eidolon of Rhetoric
2x Spirit of the Labyrinth
2x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Selfless Spirit
2x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1x Phantasmal Image
4x AEther Vial
4x Path to Exile
2x Declaration in Stone
Lands 20
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Seachrome Coast
4x Flooded Strand
3x Island
2x Plains
2x Cavern of Souls
1x Moorland Haunt
3x Kami of False Hope
2x Spell Pierce
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Rest in Peace
2x Kor Firewalker
1x Dispel
1x Stony Silence
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I think it's better to just run the land Moorland Haunt so we dont take up space from the spells. And the land last not the instant, so we can use it lategame
First off, about your list:
* why both Kataki and Stony Silence ? Spread your threats ? Is it because you vial in Kataki or? (I'm missing why you wouldn't just pick the stronger of the two)
* with Kira, Geist, Thalia and Kataki in your list you might consider Eiganjo Castle.
* Why Declaration in Stone over Detention Sphere ?
* You mention Spirit of the Labyrinth shutting down 8 merfolk cantrips, but it's really just 4 as they'll just vial in their Silvergill Adepts
My current build (still in flux) is heavy on the hate side of things and I am trying to bring in the Leonin Arbiter/Ghost Quarter package that you rejected. I'm still relatively new to actually playing modern (I theorycraft and read a lot but not much actual play time) and you've listed experience with both GW Hatebears AND DnT so you probably have a better feel as to how/why the hate isn't as strong as the tribal synergy you've built upon.
1x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4x Eidolon of Rhetoric
2x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4x Leonin Arbiter
3x Mausoleum Wanderer
2x Rattlechains
3x Selfless Spirit
4x Spell Queller
3x Spirit of the Labyrinth
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4x AEther Vial
Land (21)
3x Adarkar Wastes
2x Cavern of Souls
1x Eiganjo Castle
2x Geier Reach Sanitarium
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
2x Plains
4x Seachrome Coast
Instant (6)
2x Ojutai's Command
4x Path to Exile
3x Detention Sphere
1x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Rest in Peace
2x Spellskite
2x Stony Silence
2x Ghostly Prison
Stuff going through my head:
* I don't think 4 Ghostquarters isn't too much of a stretch - what could wrong? Famous last words I know, but few cards (Kira and Brimaz) in my build require double colours and hopefully they'll be vialed in anyway.
* Kira is such a beater and synergizes so well with Eidolon of Rhetoric, maybe she's a three-of?
* Is the land base too greedy and thus too week to Blood Moon effects?
* Is Brimaz is a bit cute? He's great value but maybe Geist should be in this spot..
* Spirit of the Labyrinth / Geier Reach Sanitarium lock is so delightful but again, maybe too cute?
* Dragonlord Ojutai as a finisher? He gets around Spirit of the Labyrinth
* New Thalia seems pretty sweet to slow down aggro and greedy land bases..
* Sideboard probably needs tweaking
* Is Leyline of Sanctity widely considered a good card? It doesn't appear in many lists anymore and some of the pros are actively disparaging about it. Maybe I've been lucky the times I've brought it in but it's been good so far.
I guess drawing one kataki and one stony silence is much, much better than drawing 2 stony silence. Also kataki can be protected from removal with other spirit.
Kira, great glass spinner interacts poorly with eiganjo castle, because caslte will break her shield. Only useful if they try to kill her with double lightning bolt, but i'm not sure it is worth it.
Regarding merfolk they don't always have vial turn one. Having spirit of the labyrinth turn 2 on the play can be very good vs their no vial hands.
Let's take a look at what he does for us:
+1: -3/-0 and can't activate abilities
Completely shuts down a lot of creatures in Modern, and help us survive combat against others. Very useful ability. Here's a list of creatures to target:
Kitchen Finks
Grim Lavamancer
Wild Nacatl
Goblin Guide
Delver of secrets
Tarmogoyf
Spellskite
Monastery Swiftspear
Snapcaster Mage
Eldrazi Displacer
Scavenging Ooze
Arcbound Ravager
Steel Overseer
Matter Reshaper
Blighted Agent
Glistener Elf
Grim Flayer
Prized Amalgam
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Cursecatcher
And that's just naming a few! His +1 is VERY good and underrated in Modern.
-1 gains 2 life and a card
Well here's the card advantage engine that we've been waiting for. For one, it nets you a card, but it also gains you life to keep you in the game. The incremental value of this ability will win games if left unchecked. Although it seems underwhelming, it's just what the deck needed, and it shores up our bad matchups.
-7
It's a game winning ultimate, the last piece to a good planeswalker.
But why include a planeswalker when you can play, say Ojutai's Command?
Well, Planeswalkers aren't just good for doing some cool stuff then dying, they also work as a meat shield that protects your valuable life total. Dovin gains you life if left unanswered, or slows down your opponent and soaks up damage if they pay attention to him. And then he threatens to ultimate if your opponent forgets about him.
So in my opinion, Dovin Baan is exactly what the deck needs as a finisher.
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
My current list:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept heath
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Plains
2 Island
4 Seachrome coast
2 Moorland haunt
2 Tectonic edge
Creatures 26
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Rattlechains
2 Phantasmal image
4 Spell Queller
4 Drogskol captain
4 Nebelgast herald
4 Aether vial
Instants 8
4 Path to exile
2 Mana leak
2 Ojutai's command
1 Kira, great glass-spinner
1 Kataki, war's wage
2 Eidolon of rhetoric
2 Azorius herald
2 Spellskite
2 Phyrexian revoker
2 Detention sphere
2 Rest in peace
1 Stony silence
4 Flooded Strand
4 windswept heath
1 godless shrine
1 watery grave
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Plains
2 island
1 darkslick shores
1 isolated chapel
2 geier reach sanitarium
2 moorland haunt
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Rattlechains
3 Spirit of the labyrinth
1 Phantasmal image
4 Spell Queller
4 Drogskol captain
2 Nebelgast herald
artifact: 4
4 aether vial
Instants 4
4 Path to exile
sorceries: 4
4 lingering souls
2 engineered explosives
2 spellskite
1 big game hunter
1 Kataki, war's wage
2 Eidolon of rhetoric
2 Azorius herald
2 Detention sphere
2 Rest in peace
1 Stony silence
Did not get to pull off the spirit of the labyrinth/geier reach sanitarium at all, expect one game for fun and my opponent scooped. Was the only game i drew sanitarium. Not sure if worth it but i'll keep it for now...
Rest in peace will go, it was there from the u/w version and i forgot it screws lingering souls badly, lol. Can't play grafdigger's cage either because of that, any ideas for a substitute? There's leyline of the void but it is pretty random so i'm not a fan...
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Thanks for the imput, i came to the same conclusion and included 2x relic in my sideboard. I really wanted access to both halves of souls when playing vs g/b midrange like jund. Souls is great here and relic is almost as good as RIP (better in some situations because of card drawing).
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"