Ace1, I'm running a similar list as you and have found 2-3 Cast Out to be solid game 1 insurance. Great versus unbeatable cards in a similar way as detention spere, but with flash. With normal matches, it usually just gets cycled. I pulled 1 Selfless Spirit to fit a third cast out and have been happy. It's also a perfect card to pull post board. Highly recommend you test it for yourself.
Finally moved Kira to the main, i found myself siding it in in a majority of games.
The other changes are in the sideboard. Went for 1/1 split between kataki and stony, because you never want two of the same but one of each is powerful. I also almost never want to draw more than one of any of those anyways... and kataki doesn't mess with my own aether vial.
Another change is the 1/1 split between RIP and cage. Cage helps a lot vs chord of calling and collected company, which are pretty good vs us. Cage also has the added benifit of not messing with the moorland haunt plan. Still keeping one rip vs various death's shadow decks. I like to have access to one rip and one cage, and choose the best one (or play both) depending on the matchup. Also i rarely want to draw more than of any of the two.
Also added one pithing needle as a concession to devoted druid/vizier of remedies combo, which is a pretty awful matchup for us in my experience, and otherwise hard to stop. Also is randomly useful vs tron, planeswalkers, etc.
Will report back later after tonight's tournament.
EDIT: well i chickened out and stayed with mana leak in my flex slot, just couldn't bring myself to play cast out, a 4 mana removal spell... i guess it is a meta choice, haven't faced a lot of bridge decks lately and haven't seen tron in a while as well, strangely enough. To sum my recent experience with the list, i've been 3-1 ing a lot lately, with a 4-0 and a 2-2 once in a while, maintaning my 75%-ish match win ration. Losses have been mainly vs devoted druid combo, another reason i didn't want to try cast out, because it comes too late... and mana leak doesn't help if they turn 3 vizier with druid on the table... still trying to figure out the perfect card that would adress this particular matchup.
yeah, i did. The card is ok-ish. The main issue is the one that always comes up: clogging the 3cc slot. It hasn't been better than any of our other 3 mana stuff so i cut it in favor of mana leaks. Don't know if its the best choice but at that point i'm pretty convinced these two slots need to be cmc 2 or less...
That's a fair take, however I would argue in that match (and many matches) it would be best cycled away to get more threats or answers. Top priority would be to race and set up CoCo and Cord blowouts from Spell Queller and surprise pumping a Mausoleum Wanderer. Mana leak slows down your board build up by comparison. They have Coco and cord to find their missing piece, adding inevitability to the combo going off.
On paper Cast Out looks unplayable in modern, but so does Nebelgast Herald, the best line of defense against aggro and big mana creature decks. Consider it a cantrip first and a great top deck late game second. I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised at how it plays in real life.
Yeah, i guess i'd rather just accept the bad vizier matchup than play stuff like revoker...
Regarding cast out, i'll give it a shot soon. I also though about think twice. Playing with irrigated farmland made me like instant speed cantripping in the deck.
By the way i love the cycling land as a 2 of. There has been time i was happy to have a it as land in my opening hand, even if it etb tapped, rather than anything else. And obviously whenvever i draw it late i'm very happy to cycle it away. Highly recommend one or two copies in the land base.
Hello all,
Long time lurker here. I would like to thank everyone who has posted so far for their contributions thus far.
With that out of the way I have been playing Spirits since EMN and have went through a few different variations before setting on my current esper list.
As you can see, it is mostly UW, but with a black splash for cards I have found to be, in most games, absolutely crucial.
Since my build doesn't utilize any acceleration (vial or CoCo), the hand disruption has been amazing. Having perfect information really helps me to plan my next few turns to utilize my creatures as effectively as possible. Backing up hand disruption with leak has led to some of my opponents misjudging my deck as control until I flash down a couple of Spirits and go on the offensive.
The fatal push have been great, especially against very aggressive decks as well as the mirror. Lingering Souls and Sorin, are often the final nail in the coffin as they usually require 2+ cards from my opponents to deal with, if they even can by that point.
Aside from the play testing, so far I have been to only 2 small tournaments 12-20 people and have placed 1st & 3rd respectively.
(2-1) Esper control
G1: I lost with only 17 min left for the round, but I was able to put together 2 very quick wins. One with Inquisition, leak, giest backed up by Queller like, and the other double Wanderer followed up with Zealous, countersquall and multiple Rattlechains.
(2-0) Naya burn (boros main)
I definitely drew amazingly in these two games. Both games were won by a turn 3 souls followed by t4 Sorin. In my testing against this deck it has always been difficult, but almost never feels out of reach.
(2-0) Grixis Delver
This was against one of my testing partners and has been laughably easy ever since I ditched vials for hand disruption.
(1-1-1) Naya burn (boros main)
We split prior to playing, but I had my opponent dead on board the next turn in games 1&3.
NEXT TOURNAMENT
(2-0) Kiki Chord
This match only lasted about 20min. Through hand disruption leak and Queller this wound up being one of the quickest matches I've played.
(2-1) UW control
G1 I mulled to 5 and only played Inquisition and lingering souls before conceding the game.
G2 I was able to ride a giest backed up by counters to a quick win.
G3. This one took awhile, but with my opponent only seeing 4 cards in the previous 2 games he mistook me for esper and removed all of his targeted removal. I flooded a bit, but would up sticking nearly every threat I played.
(1-2) Skred
I think I got a bit lucky to never deal with Blood Moon, but I definitely misplayed in G3. I wasn't paying close attention to how much Mana my opponent had and played a Queller on a Koth when he had anger backup. I had 2 Selfless in hand with little reason not to play them the turns before.
(2-1) Mardu Nahiri
I think this would have been closer if my opponent were a bit more experienced with the deck. G1 he +'ed Nahiri instead of using the Ult which cost him the game. G2 he did the same thing, but I didn't have enough pressure and scooped up to Emerakul. G3 was a total blowout with my opponent never landing a threat or answer. The Copter is a new addition that I hope to test next week, Brutality was in it's place for the above tournaments.
K-7, that looks like a very tight list. It would appear to favor longer games and play a more tempo/control role versus tempo/aggro, the choice for most lists in the thread. Good luck and report back often!
I had already naturally moved into an Esper build of Spirits as I love Lingering Souls too much. I'll post my list up soon but it basically just adds some Fatal Push, Thoughtseize along for the ride but now I see a Sorin, Solemn Visitor in I am totally down for the ride and will dabble with some Supernatural Stamina for sure.
Hi longtime lurker over here, has anyone considered the scarab god as a finisher? It enables graveyard recursion and etb effect abuse, would like to hear your opinion, is it playable or is a 5/5 for 5cmc pushing it too far?
The idea of a 4/4 Mausoleum Wanderer, spelqueller or any other spirit with an abusable ETB effect seems good enough to test, it might be out of curve, I'll post my results.
How does Bygone Bishop work in this deck? It gives some late game card advantage that's needed, and with vial and rattle chains, there could be some good end of turn investigating
Hi there! I'd like to try this deck, as I have most pieces. Nevertheless I'm missing the Aether Vial, and I see most of the lists posted here include the playset. How necessary is it? Can this deck work without it?
Also, thoughts on Figure of Destiny? A T1 drop that can help us late game, why is it not really considered?
I've always liked my 1x kira in my sideboard. I don't play it main deck because i believe we have plenty of protection vs the average modern deck. She shines vs decks that 1-for-1 you a lot, like you said, but for other deck i like having more interaction.
Echoing truth you side in not as extra removal, like d-sphere, but vs decks that it makes no diffence between bounce and destroy. Mainly vs ensnaring bridge, you just bounce it and swing when you have lethal. Vs lingering souls decks, truth just kills all spirit tokens.
Other than that, the main things i'm trying out are a few changes in the sideboard, and remand x2 in my flex slots. Been enjoying the card draw and tempo from it, it does the job until we get a better 2-drop (hopefully someday?). I'm trying sorcerous spyglass x2, the card seems great because you always name the right thing. Also playing grafdigger's cage x2 because it has no effect and moorland haunt. Vs delve decks RIP is great but so is haunt, i'm not even sure if rip is worth never using our beloved little token generating land.
I could write a lot about thalia, because i've been playing her for a looong time in modern, in one deck or another. Long story short, i play her because:
1. no other good spirits for the 2cc, rant, rant...
2. Our spells are about 75% creatures, and the ones we do play are cheap, she has very little drawback.
3. She pairs well with tempo play i believe, by taxing the opponent's resources we get ahead on efficiency. She goes so well with turn one mausoleum wanderer. Spell quellering makes the opponent waste more mana on the spell we exile, possibly preventing the following removal spell to be cast until we untap, and we all know what happens to removal spells when we untap with this deck
4. her first strike ability is suprisingly relevant, it may save you one hit from merfolk, it is ridiculous vs all of burn's creatures (and all the deck to be honest), etc.
Our deck is very interactive. We have path and nebelgast for creatures, thalia covers us vs non-creatures, and is great vs lots of matchups. Decks that play low threat density and lots of spell will have to (try to) kill her on the spot.
Plus she is a pet card of mine, so yeah, whatev, thalia's great!
I've been trying out chart a course and i like it, even though it is sorcery. Drawing two cards won't get much more efficiant than two mana, so i doubt we can realistically expect something better at what it does.
I'm not against running more than 2 images, the card is better than other available spirit two-drops options.
I'm still convinced 22 lands including 2x cycling lands is the way to go, especially with few cantrips. Yes flooding suck but cycling lands mitigate that and missing land drops early sucks even more.
Anyways random thought of the day: it sucks that good old kamigawa block was such a flop, would be the perfect throwback set for updating the deck
From personal experience, I dropped Geist completely. He didn't have much synergy with the rest of the deck and seemed slow and unnecessary. Bishop seems cool, also slow and too expensive imo. I don't run the Vial route though as I run less creatures and more spells. To me, it's a lot less clunky that way. More control/tempo.
Sold my caverns before the last reprint for value. Their absence hasn't affected my win % at all, and my meta is full of blue based control decks. Still i believe 1x is the right number, drawing two is bad and just one plus two moorland haunt will likely not mess too much with our ability to cast colored spells.
Playing 4cc value spell is a big no for me. Tried it, didn't like it. I came to the conclusion that if you are playing those you are basically playing a bad version of bant coco spirit, because coco is the best 4cc spell for this deck. We need to curve out, which is what every vial decks are best at, so anything more than 2 mana in addition to our 12-ish 3 drops is a big no.
If you are looking for a value spell, i highly recommend chart a course. The card is very efficient for what it does (no way draw 2 can reasonably be worth less than 2 mana). Really great at getting gas, it helps with the issue of running out of spirits, which is, like i've said many times, how we lose most games. Still love my 22 lands mana base, the cycling lands is a great compromise between a safe number of lands and not flooding.
Congrats on the tournament! Glad to see you beating nightmare matchup tezz bridge in the finals, pretty epic for a last match! I've always tought lantern/tezz is awful, but like you said they aren't the most popular, thankfully.
Also agree vizier company is hard, i used to lose all the time because they stupidly combo all the time through path because their deck is so redundant.
Scapeshift to me isn't so bad, i won't say it is good, titan is very annoying because it is too big to quell. Strangely i love bringing eidolon of rhetoric vs them, just time warps us on search for tomorrow turns, and double time warps us vs summoner's pact (can't play titan after pacting, then they have to pay for the pact). If you can flash it for value its great!
Thinking about bringing the deck to GP toronto which is coming soon and is at a reasonable distance from my home. I've never been in an actual modern GP, but the registration price just doubled compared to last year's GP here in montreal, so not sure i'll be able to afford, we'll see.
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modern:UW spirits, BR goblins
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Preorded a set of Nimble Obstructionist they were pretty cheap. Think they sounded underrated and def agree with
Supernatural Stamina sounding fun
1 of Vault of the Archangel sounds fun to me too so going to try that
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
1 Phantasmal Image
4 Rattlechains
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Drogskol Captain
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Nimble Obstructionist
4 Spell Queller
Spells:13
3 AEther Vial
2 Fatal Push
3 Path to Exile
3 Supernatural Stamina
2 Lingering Souls
2 Darkslick Shores
4 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Watery Grave
3 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Path to Exile
3 Blessed Alliance
2 Unified Will
Here's where i'm at at the moment:
4 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept heath
2 Polluted delta
2 Plains
2 Island
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Irrigated farmland
2 Seachrome coast
2 Cavern of souls
2 Moorland haunt
Creatures 28
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Rattlechains
3 Phantasmal image
1 Thalia, guardian of thraben
4 Spell Queller
4 Drogskol captain
3 Nebelgast herald
1 Kira, great glass-spinner
4 Aether vial
Instants 4
4 Path to exile
Enchantments: 2
2 Cast out
1 Grafdigger's cage
1 Pithing needle
1 Ceremonious rejection
1 Disdainful stroke
2 Blessed alliance
2 Echoing truth
1 Stony silence
1 Rest in peace
2 Burrenton forge-tender
2 Eidolon of rhetoric
1 Kataki, war's wage
Finally moved Kira to the main, i found myself siding it in in a majority of games.
The other changes are in the sideboard. Went for 1/1 split between kataki and stony, because you never want two of the same but one of each is powerful. I also almost never want to draw more than one of any of those anyways... and kataki doesn't mess with my own aether vial.
Another change is the 1/1 split between RIP and cage. Cage helps a lot vs chord of calling and collected company, which are pretty good vs us. Cage also has the added benifit of not messing with the moorland haunt plan. Still keeping one rip vs various death's shadow decks. I like to have access to one rip and one cage, and choose the best one (or play both) depending on the matchup. Also i rarely want to draw more than of any of the two.
Also added one pithing needle as a concession to devoted druid/vizier of remedies combo, which is a pretty awful matchup for us in my experience, and otherwise hard to stop. Also is randomly useful vs tron, planeswalkers, etc.
Will report back later after tonight's tournament.
EDIT: well i chickened out and stayed with mana leak in my flex slot, just couldn't bring myself to play cast out, a 4 mana removal spell... i guess it is a meta choice, haven't faced a lot of bridge decks lately and haven't seen tron in a while as well, strangely enough. To sum my recent experience with the list, i've been 3-1 ing a lot lately, with a 4-0 and a 2-2 once in a while, maintaning my 75%-ish match win ration. Losses have been mainly vs devoted druid combo, another reason i didn't want to try cast out, because it comes too late... and mana leak doesn't help if they turn 3 vizier with druid on the table... still trying to figure out the perfect card that would adress this particular matchup.
On paper Cast Out looks unplayable in modern, but so does Nebelgast Herald, the best line of defense against aggro and big mana creature decks. Consider it a cantrip first and a great top deck late game second. I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised at how it plays in real life.
1x Adarkar Wastes
4x Flooded Strand
4x Glacial Fortress
3x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Marsh Flats
2x Moorland Haunt
2x Plains
2x Polluted Delta
3x Selfless Spirit
4x Spell Queller
4x Rattlechains
4x Phantasmal Image
4x Mausoleum Wanderer
4x Nebelgast Herald
4x Drogskol Captain
Non-Creatures
4x Aether Vial
3x Cast Out
4x Path to Exile
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Fragmentize
2x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Rest in Peace
3x Stony Silence
3x Wrath of God
Regarding cast out, i'll give it a shot soon. I also though about think twice. Playing with irrigated farmland made me like instant speed cantripping in the deck.
By the way i love the cycling land as a 2 of. There has been time i was happy to have a it as land in my opening hand, even if it etb tapped, rather than anything else. And obviously whenvever i draw it late i'm very happy to cycle it away. Highly recommend one or two copies in the land base.
Long time lurker here. I would like to thank everyone who has posted so far for their contributions thus far.
With that out of the way I have been playing Spirits since EMN and have went through a few different variations before setting on my current esper list.
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
2 Fatal Push
3 Selfless Spirit
4 Rattlechains
2 Smuggler's Copter
3 Mana Leak
4 Drogskol Captain
4 Spell Queller
3 Lingering Souls
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
2 Concealed Courtyard
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Seachrome Coast
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Collective Brutality
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Countersquall
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Supreme Verdict
As you can see, it is mostly UW, but with a black splash for cards I have found to be, in most games, absolutely crucial.
Since my build doesn't utilize any acceleration (vial or CoCo), the hand disruption has been amazing. Having perfect information really helps me to plan my next few turns to utilize my creatures as effectively as possible. Backing up hand disruption with leak has led to some of my opponents misjudging my deck as control until I flash down a couple of Spirits and go on the offensive.
The fatal push have been great, especially against very aggressive decks as well as the mirror. Lingering Souls and Sorin, are often the final nail in the coffin as they usually require 2+ cards from my opponents to deal with, if they even can by that point.
Aside from the play testing, so far I have been to only 2 small tournaments 12-20 people and have placed 1st & 3rd respectively.
(2-1) Esper control
G1: I lost with only 17 min left for the round, but I was able to put together 2 very quick wins. One with Inquisition, leak, giest backed up by Queller like, and the other double Wanderer followed up with Zealous, countersquall and multiple Rattlechains.
(2-0) Naya burn (boros main)
I definitely drew amazingly in these two games. Both games were won by a turn 3 souls followed by t4 Sorin. In my testing against this deck it has always been difficult, but almost never feels out of reach.
(2-0) Grixis Delver
This was against one of my testing partners and has been laughably easy ever since I ditched vials for hand disruption.
(1-1-1) Naya burn (boros main)
We split prior to playing, but I had my opponent dead on board the next turn in games 1&3.
NEXT TOURNAMENT
(2-0) Kiki Chord
This match only lasted about 20min. Through hand disruption leak and Queller this wound up being one of the quickest matches I've played.
(2-1) UW control
G1 I mulled to 5 and only played Inquisition and lingering souls before conceding the game.
G2 I was able to ride a giest backed up by counters to a quick win.
G3. This one took awhile, but with my opponent only seeing 4 cards in the previous 2 games he mistook me for esper and removed all of his targeted removal. I flooded a bit, but would up sticking nearly every threat I played.
(1-2) Skred
I think I got a bit lucky to never deal with Blood Moon, but I definitely misplayed in G3. I wasn't paying close attention to how much Mana my opponent had and played a Queller on a Koth when he had anger backup. I had 2 Selfless in hand with little reason not to play them the turns before.
(2-1) Mardu Nahiri
I think this would have been closer if my opponent were a bit more experienced with the deck. G1 he +'ed Nahiri instead of using the Ult which cost him the game. G2 he did the same thing, but I didn't have enough pressure and scooped up to Emerakul. G3 was a total blowout with my opponent never landing a threat or answer. The Copter is a new addition that I hope to test next week, Brutality was in it's place for the above tournaments.
Modern: Jund
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
Also, thoughts on Figure of Destiny? A T1 drop that can help us late game, why is it not really considered?
Echoing truth you side in not as extra removal, like d-sphere, but vs decks that it makes no diffence between bounce and destroy. Mainly vs ensnaring bridge, you just bounce it and swing when you have lethal. Vs lingering souls decks, truth just kills all spirit tokens.
Other than that, the main things i'm trying out are a few changes in the sideboard, and remand x2 in my flex slots. Been enjoying the card draw and tempo from it, it does the job until we get a better 2-drop (hopefully someday?). I'm trying sorcerous spyglass x2, the card seems great because you always name the right thing. Also playing grafdigger's cage x2 because it has no effect and moorland haunt. Vs delve decks RIP is great but so is haunt, i'm not even sure if rip is worth never using our beloved little token generating land.
My current list:
4 path to exile
2 remand
artifacts: 4
4 aether vial
creatures: 26
4 mausoleum wanderer
4 selfless spirit
4 rattlechains
2 thalia, guardian of thraben
2 phantasmal image
4 spell queller
4 drogskol captain
4 nebelgast herald
lands: 22
4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
2 windswept heath
2 hallowed fountain
2 irrigated farmland
2 plains
2 island
2 seachrome coast
2 cavern of souls
2 moorland haunt
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 eidolon of rhetoric
2 sorcerous spyglass
2 grafdigger's cage
2 ceremonious rejection
2 blessed alliance
2 echoing truth
1. no other good spirits for the 2cc, rant, rant...
2. Our spells are about 75% creatures, and the ones we do play are cheap, she has very little drawback.
3. She pairs well with tempo play i believe, by taxing the opponent's resources we get ahead on efficiency. She goes so well with turn one mausoleum wanderer. Spell quellering makes the opponent waste more mana on the spell we exile, possibly preventing the following removal spell to be cast until we untap, and we all know what happens to removal spells when we untap with this deck
4. her first strike ability is suprisingly relevant, it may save you one hit from merfolk, it is ridiculous vs all of burn's creatures (and all the deck to be honest), etc.
Our deck is very interactive. We have path and nebelgast for creatures, thalia covers us vs non-creatures, and is great vs lots of matchups. Decks that play low threat density and lots of spell will have to (try to) kill her on the spot.
Plus she is a pet card of mine, so yeah, whatev, thalia's great!
I'm not against running more than 2 images, the card is better than other available spirit two-drops options.
I'm still convinced 22 lands including 2x cycling lands is the way to go, especially with few cantrips. Yes flooding suck but cycling lands mitigate that and missing land drops early sucks even more.
Anyways random thought of the day: it sucks that good old kamigawa block was such a flop, would be the perfect throwback set for updating the deck
Playing 4cc value spell is a big no for me. Tried it, didn't like it. I came to the conclusion that if you are playing those you are basically playing a bad version of bant coco spirit, because coco is the best 4cc spell for this deck. We need to curve out, which is what every vial decks are best at, so anything more than 2 mana in addition to our 12-ish 3 drops is a big no.
If you are looking for a value spell, i highly recommend chart a course. The card is very efficient for what it does (no way draw 2 can reasonably be worth less than 2 mana). Really great at getting gas, it helps with the issue of running out of spirits, which is, like i've said many times, how we lose most games. Still love my 22 lands mana base, the cycling lands is a great compromise between a safe number of lands and not flooding.
Also agree vizier company is hard, i used to lose all the time because they stupidly combo all the time through path because their deck is so redundant.
Scapeshift to me isn't so bad, i won't say it is good, titan is very annoying because it is too big to quell. Strangely i love bringing eidolon of rhetoric vs them, just time warps us on search for tomorrow turns, and double time warps us vs summoner's pact (can't play titan after pacting, then they have to pay for the pact). If you can flash it for value its great!
Thinking about bringing the deck to GP toronto which is coming soon and is at a reasonable distance from my home. I've never been in an actual modern GP, but the registration price just doubled compared to last year's GP here in montreal, so not sure i'll be able to afford, we'll see.