I've had the opposite experience with lingering souls against control, it's been the absolute best card for me in the matchup and it's not close. Basically you get 2 tokens and save the flashback. Then you just start attacking for 2 every turn and make them do something. If you have township out you activate on their end step and keep pinging away. When they answer the tokens, you flash back and repeat. Never overextend more than 2 or 3 tokens at a time. Thoughtseize removes their best answers and gives you valuable info to inform your play patterns (like going for the combo or chording for Courser). I've probably played 7-8 matches against UWx control and it's always felt favorable after sideboard. Game 1 can be tough depending on the exact build.
My view might be skewed because I ran into Gideon I guess, and of course was not running Thoughtseize in the board. Maybe that'd be enough--with the Valakut and Tron density (1x titan shift and 2x tron on a regular basis) I think I am gonna keep plugging away at the Naya version. This coming week will be Huntmasters.
Here's what I'm thinking of for next week, thus far--
Lots of weird stuff in there for testing sideboard wise especially.
Archangel of Tithes for Kiki Chord (and actually pretty good against Jund and Affinity, since it's a big tough to kill flier) -- possible windborn muse would be better, but Archangel has some offensive applications and I wanna see if it's OK. Last week it did a spellskite impression and ate a terminate and that's all.
Dauntless Escort - just very good. Solid vs. verdict decks especially, forces them to play slower if nothing else.
Grand Abolisher - another piece I want to try out, basically doing a spellskite impression with a higher upside and lower downside. Upside of stopping Cryptic fogs (which has been a big problem for me) and counterspells.
Realm Razer - trying instead of the 3rd crumble for Tron/Titanshift. So far has not been good (But the tron decks in my meta play warping wail, so need to watch out:). Ought to be good vs. Taking Turns as well.
Rec sage - a number of times I wanted to kill something and still have a clock. Much better at killing spreading seas than Pridemage, so wanted to have one in the 75.
Spirit - Taking Turns and pretty good against Sphinx's rev and painful truths, and a really aggressive clock if not killed, for the mana.
Dromoka's Command - stops damage sweepers, trades for a bolt, is often a 2-for-1 with the fight mode, and kills spreading seas / detention spheres pretty well. Little more versatile than mark of asylum or burrenton.
Gideon can be challenging, less so if you have township in play. If you don't have township you have to commit more to the board which can open you up for a blowout. With township you can stay on your plan and gideon will be gone in 2 turns.
Well, they play more spells usually, not to mention spreading seas and ghost quarters and such. It's a tough matchup and I didn't find slow playing souls to get the job done -- they'll play Elspeth or detention sphere your souls or snap-cryptic-fog, etc. Because they run 4 destruction lands (tec edges+ghost quarters) you get maybe one activation out of township.
I just don't see thoughtseize/lingering souls being that great in the matchup; Domri was much better than souls for me in that specific match. It is possible that I'm missing specifically how good Thoughtseize is, but I never found it all that much of an issue when I was playing UW control -- 1-for-1s usually ended up in my favor since all of my cards 2-for-1'd.
The other issue with slow-playing is if they get to the point where they can activate colonnade on defense, you're forced to commit while they sit there and plus their walkers Their wincons are so much stronger and offer more inevitability than ours too so playing slowly is not always ideal.
Kiki and resto are both very weak topdecks in general. Archangel takes over games and doesn't due to bolt. Resto presents a six turn clock.
Three main draws for me are the improved burn match and superior mana. I don't like four colour decks and we get to play 8 dorks because of township.
The combo is far more resilient to bolt too, since playing feeder after angel results in for life and double anthem if they bolt it vs nothing if they bolt kiki.
I disagree on Kiki and Resto being a bad topdeck. Part of the deck's strength is in having multiple etb creatures and being able to reuse their etb abilities is incredibly strong.
Never got a chance to respond to this! The issue here is that resto/kiki are reliant on having etb creatures to use. They are horrible topdecks in attrition wars where you've been wrathed or similar.
Topdecking an Archangel of Thune on an empty board is a recipe for success, even turning any mana dorks laying around into unbeatable threats very quickly. Topdecking a restoration angel is a 6 turn clock, no matter how many mana dorks you have.
If you have a board full of creatures and topdeck a kiki or a resto you may draw a card or three but you're presenting a slow clock. Kiki/Resto do not turn a board of walls, spellskites, mana dorks and such into victory. Yeah, archangel can just die but so can resto or kiki (and kiki dies to bolt).
I played about 20 matches against elves and fish the other day and found my aggro matchup was as bad as I thought; gotta jam a couple worships. The huntmaster version of the deck was much worse, so moved back to Garruks. Not sure I am gonna play it this week or not.
Another card I tested that was pretty OK was bonfire of the damned. May explore that a little more, given how strong it is with Courser and Horizon Canopy.
Re: DIBS--
If you're splashing for a fourth color how can you possibly manage 4 colorless lands? My mana feels sketchy sometimes at 3 colors with the 3 townships+1 kessig, if I get spreading seas'd or people kill my dorks, etc., it can be really rough.
I like the idea of cards like glen elendra and unified will for sure, but you wind up having to lean really hard on sticking a worship in the merfolk matchup especially.
Glad to hear that. What I find is that tec edge/ghost quarter/spreading seas/fulminators put me off of red pretty easily -- Merfolk was an absolute nightmare. Maybe worship does the job there though I would worry about getting spell pierced.
As long as you don't cut any white sources I think splashing a 4th color wouldn't strain the mana base too much. You will probably lose either the swamp or one of the forests in place of another shock. If you splash blue you get the boost from noble hierarch too. You don't need to change the fetches at all. It should work just fine.
I have actually moved away from worship in the board all together. Now that opponents expect it they just bring in answers that also hit spellskite and courser. I find that I don't need it to beat eldrazi or burn as both matchups are favorable (burn extremely so). It doesn't really help in the more troublesome matchups, although merfolk does seem like a rough match that it could be good in. I've only played against merfolk one time and lost 0-2. Not being able to chump block due to island walk is a beating.
Yeah Merfolk is a drubbing. Nothing quite like getting your turn 1 dork harbingered
I had some better luck with Garruk as he's solid for killing their dudes then flipping, and Bonfire was OK. Lingering souls is just nearly useless in the match, same with Elves. Basically a dead card.
Another issue with Elves and Merfolk is they're so redundant path is pretty near useless (without eternal witness loops)--you're not out-removing them unless you've got bolt-snap-bolt and electrolyzes, or Jund with confidants.
I did have some luck "comboing off" with Scavenging Ooze and Archangel, so seeing some of the appeal there
When I look at the lists on the OP, I'm impressed. Looks pretty ballsy to play 4x Thune at first glance. Pod decks and now Coco Chord decks tend to play up to three 5-drops, no more. If I had to play a 4th one in a Thune shell, I'd rather have Shriekmaw. Eldrazi being weak to the Maw, it looks fine to me.
But let's say we cover the creature MUs with Pontiff + PtE (+ SB material), I feel fine playing only three 5-drops and probably free a slot for a 4-drop, like Linvala, Keeper of Silence. She's always good in the meta, against Coco decks, Chord decks, Affi, Infect and UW Eldrazi.
Another intriguing choice is to play 12 mana guys in addition to 23 lands. It's 35 mana sources, while we're rather used to 31. It means the deck does nothing interesting before it assembles the combo. Pretty slow and narrow in my eyes. So why would we mulligan if we don't have a 1-mana dork in our opening, while we have barely nothing interesting to do on turn 2 but a fairly weak Spike Feeder ?
The deck doesn't dig or cantrip whatsoever. It bets on single powerful spells, but these spells can be disrupted quite easily. I mean, Pod was already a deck where we suffered having hands with manadorks doing nothing, or heavy spells we couldn't cast in time. Here it's way worse.
Big up to the few ones who manage to perform with this deck, but I feel like the build is flawed in some ways. Right now, the meta is full of Eldrazi decks that play Dismember and Path ot Exile, and many other decks that play answers to Eldrazi, like Terminate, and so on. In that regard, the all-in Thune combo looks very poorly positioned in the metagame. That's why Kiki Chord works, it plays a tool-box along with a combo: way less vulnerable to spot removal.
Turn 2 lingering souls and courser is pretty good. the other piece is that the dorks become game winning threats pretty easily with 4 townships--Once you start activating township with a few dorks it's pretty hard to stop.
Counter-intuitively you actually don't want to cast turn 2 spike feeder if you can avoid it--he's much better cast after archangel. You'd rather cast courser or lingering souls, or even double dork turn 2.
It's pretty easy to accelerate into a turn 3 archangel (t1 dork, t2 wall, is relatively common), and what your best draws do is usually cast archangel then feeder--where you gain 4 life and double anthem your team even if they remove it, or leave mana up to chord a spellskite in response.
I don't think Blue is the way to go over abzan or naya. The main reasoning there is that many of the things you want to cast in blue are awkward (Kira, especially, does not work as a chord bullet and costs UU). Red offers us better removal if we need it, tron tech, and Domri.
That said, I don't disagree that the deck's not anywhere near its final form, and that it's weaker than both Kiki Chord and Abzan Company at the moment--but it has a lot going for it in how strong Archangel is in a deck full of baneslayers (not to mention the strong synergy with Courser and Scavenging Ooze).
@headminerve - I think you are underestimating lingering souls and gavony township to some degree. I usually don't win with the combo, but with the token beatdown plan. It makes good use of the extra mana. Not having enough mana to get on the township plan fast enough is usually the reason I lose games. It's usually wrong to jam the combo into untapped mana. I have had very good testing results against Eldrazi, the more difficult matchups are faster combos like living end, tron, merfolk and heavy removal based midrange and control decks with sweepers like Jund or UWx.
Any thoughts on Archangel Avacyn? It seems worse than Reveillark for abzan company, but it could be a sweet 1 of for this deck. Oddly enough, if it didn't transform at all I think it would be a no brainer in this deck but the transform is probably bad for us.
I'm considering her as the 4th angel or to replace Dauntless Escort in the sideboard - she's probably better as 2 in the 75 though since you won't be able to chord for her reliably.
My thoughts are that she presents an aggressive clock and her flip is likely to be good for us against aggro...if you're not playing lingering souls. I would not play her if you play lingering souls.
So in Naya or Bant with alternative card advantage engines over souls (planeswalkers or witnesses or w hatever) I think she's potentially really good. The fact that Spike Feeder can suicide to flip her is pretty neat.
From SOI so far I think Nahiri has the most likelihood of being playable (in Naya of course). All three modes are relevant.
Traverse the Ulvenwald seems very very good. Tough to balance getting Delirium in this deck though, probably require a complete rewrite. Might be good enough to go straight GW and play a few more basics, just try to jam the combo and play a little bit more midrange.
Might be that playing 4 hangarbacks and 4 coursers would be good enough to make delirium relatively consistent, I dunno.
After all the playtesting last week I decided to make some small adjustments to the main deck. The new tech is:
* Because Spike feeder cannot be pathed, I think playing eternal witnesses over feeders (1/2 split) might be right. It does leave vulnerable to scavenging ooze, but we have a lot of outs there -- decks that play scooze are slow enough we can probably win with Archangel+Courser or Archangel+Scooze.
* Grim Lavamancer seems like a reasonable out to decks like elves, affinity, infect and merfolk. It's not perfect, but combined with Domri and Garruk it should let us have decent games vs. aggro. Also, it's really good at helping kill planeswalkers if needed. I figure with our number of spells, fetches and wall of roots one lavamancer should be able to be supported. One fringe benefit is his ability to kill Kiki Jiki if it's required (though not instantly with chord, we can fetch him up early).
I got wrecked 1 win vs merfolk, 1 tie vs. kiki chord and 2 losses to Allies agro and TitanScapeshift.
Beat Fish with worship g2, then g3 my favorite play of the night:
Turn 2 Courser, 3 Garruk, wrestle a lord and flip. Turn 4 archangel make a wolf, Turn 5 sac wolf and combo out. Garruk did what I intended him to do for once.
The scapeshift matchup feels almost unwinnable, but maybe I'm approaching it wrong. Removal for all my guys, valakut to sweep my board, etc. Maybe Mark of Asylum is required. Or paths and leylines maybe, I dunno. It's just awful. More aggro might work. Even if I draw Crumble, if he has multiple valakuts he can still win pretty easily (assuming he doesn't izzet charm or remand it :P).
The aggro matchup is in general really miserable and relies on sticking a worship and protecting it somehow, or comboing out fast.
The Eternal Witnesses were both good and bad, think I will cut back to 1 and see how that goes. That said, never drawing spike feeders was kinda nice as they are miserable, and I have a lot of ways to find them.
I am strongly considering trying out Nahiri when she comes out, since I think she'd be a bit better than Garruk--although he has consistently been pretty decent.
Thus far I've never been like "man, if I had lingering souls I'd be winning" -- what the deck kinda wants for is a more aggressive clock almost I think. Maybe Kitchen Finks over Coursers.
I give you props for trying out some cool brews, but in the end I think the abzan version with souls is just a stronger deck. Lingering souls is a great card. Thoughtseize is a great card. Removing those cards from the deck in place of red cards and planeswalkers that just aren't as good comparably is going to end up in more losses. Souls also has great synergy with chord and township. The naya version seems wicked fun, but if you are looking for the most tuned list to do well competitively I'd go back to abzan and explore some cool tech within that shell.
So my thinking is that the abzan version has no results to speak of other (very few by a small pool of players) than in a warped metagame, and it's probably best to start from scratch and plan for the metagame that's going to exist after Eldrazi winter.
The issues with the lingering souls version of the deck is mainly that it's awful when lingering souls is awful, but I suspect that the core of the deck is potentially good.
So my thinking is that the abzan version has no results to speak of other (very few by a small pool of players) than in a warped metagame, and it's probably best to start from scratch and plan for the metagame that's going to exist after Eldrazi winter.
The issues with the lingering souls version of the deck is mainly that it's awful when lingering souls is awful, but I suspect that the core of the deck is potentially good.
And the rest is really completely open. It hasn't been explored much at all and is likely to be highly meta dependent.
Personally, Lingering souls is so poor in my meta that I'm probably heading back to Abzan Company if I can't figure something out here.
Could not disagree with you more. Lingering souls is in the top 5 best cards in modern. So good as a stall card or finisher, and single handedly makes the Jund matchup a favorite. Not to mention in our deck it lets us chord faster and gives us air attackers when we combo off. A no brainer. If lingering souls is bad in your meta then Abzan Coco has to be TERRIBLE.
Just built the deck and I love it. Archangel is a house. I am playing 3 Gavony Township 1 Vault of the Archangel (Angel synergy with lifelink + Archangel in the name + deathtouch is great)
Also, just my 2 cents, if you are playing a chord deck you are conceding to tron so there is no reason to play red for tron hate anyway.
Have you tested Ajani Goldmane or Ajani, Mentor of Heroes in this deck ?
With all the ramp and small creatures these two seems to fit in nicely, and might serve a similar purpose to Gavony Township (only better).
I never said lingering souls was bad but it is awful in my meta, where none of the aggro decks care about souls tokens (bogles trample/prot creatures, elves trample, merfolk swim around, allies get protection from white, etc.). And none of the control/midrange decks care about it either (time warp, UW Control with 3 effing Gideons, Tron, Scapeshift).
My experience was that Lingering Souls made the Jund matchup even, but not positive. Scavenging Ooze and discard spells can really be a drubbing for souls when you have minimal removal.
I haven't tried either Ajani, but the 5-drop slot is full in the deck. The only card I could see trying out as the 5th archangel is probably Primal Command, but that seemed too slow to me. If I was going to try an Ajani I think it'd be the 3W one that can buff your other planeswalkers or give a guy vigilance and lifelink, but that's because I am on a planeswalker plan atm
Not being able to really protect himself is his main issue. Definitely considered it--might be good enough with a deck that plays some more real creatures (e.g. smiters or knight of the reliquary or something).
Here's what I'm thinking of for next week, thus far--
3 Gavony Township
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Plains
1 Raging Ravine
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wall of Roots
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Spike Feeder
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Archangel of Thune
3 Domri Rade
4 Chord of Calling
1 Archangel of Tithes
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Dauntless Escort
2 Dromoka's Command
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Evolutionary Leap
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Realm Razer
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Stony Silence
Lots of weird stuff in there for testing sideboard wise especially.
Archangel of Tithes for Kiki Chord (and actually pretty good against Jund and Affinity, since it's a big tough to kill flier) -- possible windborn muse would be better, but Archangel has some offensive applications and I wanna see if it's OK. Last week it did a spellskite impression and ate a terminate and that's all.
Dauntless Escort - just very good. Solid vs. verdict decks especially, forces them to play slower if nothing else.
Grand Abolisher - another piece I want to try out, basically doing a spellskite impression with a higher upside and lower downside. Upside of stopping Cryptic fogs (which has been a big problem for me) and counterspells.
Realm Razer - trying instead of the 3rd crumble for Tron/Titanshift. So far has not been good (But the tron decks in my meta play warping wail, so need to watch out:). Ought to be good vs. Taking Turns as well.
Rec sage - a number of times I wanted to kill something and still have a clock. Much better at killing spreading seas than Pridemage, so wanted to have one in the 75.
Spirit - Taking Turns and pretty good against Sphinx's rev and painful truths, and a really aggressive clock if not killed, for the mana.
Dromoka's Command - stops damage sweepers, trades for a bolt, is often a 2-for-1 with the fight mode, and kills spreading seas / detention spheres pretty well. Little more versatile than mark of asylum or burrenton.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I just don't see thoughtseize/lingering souls being that great in the matchup; Domri was much better than souls for me in that specific match. It is possible that I'm missing specifically how good Thoughtseize is, but I never found it all that much of an issue when I was playing UW control -- 1-for-1s usually ended up in my favor since all of my cards 2-for-1'd.
The other issue with slow-playing is if they get to the point where they can activate colonnade on defense, you're forced to commit while they sit there and plus their walkers Their wincons are so much stronger and offer more inevitability than ours too so playing slowly is not always ideal.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Never got a chance to respond to this! The issue here is that resto/kiki are reliant on having etb creatures to use. They are horrible topdecks in attrition wars where you've been wrathed or similar.
Topdecking an Archangel of Thune on an empty board is a recipe for success, even turning any mana dorks laying around into unbeatable threats very quickly. Topdecking a restoration angel is a 6 turn clock, no matter how many mana dorks you have.
If you have a board full of creatures and topdeck a kiki or a resto you may draw a card or three but you're presenting a slow clock. Kiki/Resto do not turn a board of walls, spellskites, mana dorks and such into victory. Yeah, archangel can just die but so can resto or kiki (and kiki dies to bolt).
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Another card I tested that was pretty OK was bonfire of the damned. May explore that a little more, given how strong it is with Courser and Horizon Canopy.
Re: DIBS--
If you're splashing for a fourth color how can you possibly manage 4 colorless lands? My mana feels sketchy sometimes at 3 colors with the 3 townships+1 kessig, if I get spreading seas'd or people kill my dorks, etc., it can be really rough.
I like the idea of cards like glen elendra and unified will for sure, but you wind up having to lean really hard on sticking a worship in the merfolk matchup especially.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/shadows-over-innistrad/26740-nahiri-the-harbinger
Provides board control, card selection, and tutors a combo piece directly into play with haste (with a 3 turn clock).
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I have actually moved away from worship in the board all together. Now that opponents expect it they just bring in answers that also hit spellskite and courser. I find that I don't need it to beat eldrazi or burn as both matchups are favorable (burn extremely so). It doesn't really help in the more troublesome matchups, although merfolk does seem like a rough match that it could be good in. I've only played against merfolk one time and lost 0-2. Not being able to chump block due to island walk is a beating.
I had some better luck with Garruk as he's solid for killing their dudes then flipping, and Bonfire was OK. Lingering souls is just nearly useless in the match, same with Elves. Basically a dead card.
Another issue with Elves and Merfolk is they're so redundant path is pretty near useless (without eternal witness loops)--you're not out-removing them unless you've got bolt-snap-bolt and electrolyzes, or Jund with confidants.
I did have some luck "comboing off" with Scavenging Ooze and Archangel, so seeing some of the appeal there
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
When I look at the lists on the OP, I'm impressed. Looks pretty ballsy to play 4x Thune at first glance. Pod decks and now Coco Chord decks tend to play up to three 5-drops, no more. If I had to play a 4th one in a Thune shell, I'd rather have Shriekmaw. Eldrazi being weak to the Maw, it looks fine to me.
But let's say we cover the creature MUs with Pontiff + PtE (+ SB material), I feel fine playing only three 5-drops and probably free a slot for a 4-drop, like Linvala, Keeper of Silence. She's always good in the meta, against Coco decks, Chord decks, Affi, Infect and UW Eldrazi.
Another intriguing choice is to play 12 mana guys in addition to 23 lands. It's 35 mana sources, while we're rather used to 31. It means the deck does nothing interesting before it assembles the combo. Pretty slow and narrow in my eyes. So why would we mulligan if we don't have a 1-mana dork in our opening, while we have barely nothing interesting to do on turn 2 but a fairly weak Spike Feeder ?
The deck doesn't dig or cantrip whatsoever. It bets on single powerful spells, but these spells can be disrupted quite easily. I mean, Pod was already a deck where we suffered having hands with manadorks doing nothing, or heavy spells we couldn't cast in time. Here it's way worse.
Big up to the few ones who manage to perform with this deck, but I feel like the build is flawed in some ways. Right now, the meta is full of Eldrazi decks that play Dismember and Path ot Exile, and many other decks that play answers to Eldrazi, like Terminate, and so on. In that regard, the all-in Thune combo looks very poorly positioned in the metagame. That's why Kiki Chord works, it plays a tool-box along with a combo: way less vulnerable to spot removal.
As strange as it may sound, a Bant version of all-in Thune combo has a few advantages over Abzan. You can protect your combo with Glen Elendra Archmage, Kira, Great Glass-spinner, Unified Will, Spiketail Drakeling, Meddling Mage, and Spellskite becomes painless. I'm not saying it would be competitive enough, but that the Abzan version may not be more competitive than the Bant one.
Counter-intuitively you actually don't want to cast turn 2 spike feeder if you can avoid it--he's much better cast after archangel. You'd rather cast courser or lingering souls, or even double dork turn 2.
It's pretty easy to accelerate into a turn 3 archangel (t1 dork, t2 wall, is relatively common), and what your best draws do is usually cast archangel then feeder--where you gain 4 life and double anthem your team even if they remove it, or leave mana up to chord a spellskite in response.
I don't think Blue is the way to go over abzan or naya. The main reasoning there is that many of the things you want to cast in blue are awkward (Kira, especially, does not work as a chord bullet and costs UU). Red offers us better removal if we need it, tron tech, and Domri.
That said, I don't disagree that the deck's not anywhere near its final form, and that it's weaker than both Kiki Chord and Abzan Company at the moment--but it has a lot going for it in how strong Archangel is in a deck full of baneslayers (not to mention the strong synergy with Courser and Scavenging Ooze).
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
My thoughts are that she presents an aggressive clock and her flip is likely to be good for us against aggro...if you're not playing lingering souls. I would not play her if you play lingering souls.
So in Naya or Bant with alternative card advantage engines over souls (planeswalkers or witnesses or w hatever) I think she's potentially really good. The fact that Spike Feeder can suicide to flip her is pretty neat.
From SOI so far I think Nahiri has the most likelihood of being playable (in Naya of course). All three modes are relevant.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Might be that playing 4 hangarbacks and 4 coursers would be good enough to make delirium relatively consistent, I dunno.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
* Because Spike feeder cannot be pathed, I think playing eternal witnesses over feeders (1/2 split) might be right. It does leave vulnerable to scavenging ooze, but we have a lot of outs there -- decks that play scooze are slow enough we can probably win with Archangel+Courser or Archangel+Scooze.
* Grim Lavamancer seems like a reasonable out to decks like elves, affinity, infect and merfolk. It's not perfect, but combined with Domri and Garruk it should let us have decent games vs. aggro. Also, it's really good at helping kill planeswalkers if needed. I figure with our number of spells, fetches and wall of roots one lavamancer should be able to be supported. One fringe benefit is his ability to kill Kiki Jiki if it's required (though not instantly with chord, we can fetch him up early).
3 Gavony Township
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
Combo
4 Archangel of Thune
1 Spike Feeder
4 Chord of Calling
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wall of Roots
Engine
2 Domri Rade
3 Garruk Relentless
3 Courser of Kruphix
2 Eternal Witness
Toolbox
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Aven Mindcensor
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Dauntless Escort
2 Dromoka's Command
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Realm Razer
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Worship
Will post up about how badly I get wrecked tonight I'm sure
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Beat Fish with worship g2, then g3 my favorite play of the night:
Turn 2 Courser, 3 Garruk, wrestle a lord and flip. Turn 4 archangel make a wolf, Turn 5 sac wolf and combo out. Garruk did what I intended him to do for once.
The scapeshift matchup feels almost unwinnable, but maybe I'm approaching it wrong. Removal for all my guys, valakut to sweep my board, etc. Maybe Mark of Asylum is required. Or paths and leylines maybe, I dunno. It's just awful. More aggro might work. Even if I draw Crumble, if he has multiple valakuts he can still win pretty easily (assuming he doesn't izzet charm or remand it :P).
The aggro matchup is in general really miserable and relies on sticking a worship and protecting it somehow, or comboing out fast.
The Eternal Witnesses were both good and bad, think I will cut back to 1 and see how that goes. That said, never drawing spike feeders was kinda nice as they are miserable, and I have a lot of ways to find them.
I am strongly considering trying out Nahiri when she comes out, since I think she'd be a bit better than Garruk--although he has consistently been pretty decent.
Thus far I've never been like "man, if I had lingering souls I'd be winning" -- what the deck kinda wants for is a more aggressive clock almost I think. Maybe Kitchen Finks over Coursers.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
The issues with the lingering souls version of the deck is mainly that it's awful when lingering souls is awful, but I suspect that the core of the deck is potentially good.
In my mind the core of the deck is:
And the rest is really completely open. It hasn't been explored much at all and is likely to be highly meta dependent.
Personally, Lingering souls is so poor in my meta that I'm probably heading back to Abzan Company if I can't figure something out here.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Could not disagree with you more. Lingering souls is in the top 5 best cards in modern. So good as a stall card or finisher, and single handedly makes the Jund matchup a favorite. Not to mention in our deck it lets us chord faster and gives us air attackers when we combo off. A no brainer. If lingering souls is bad in your meta then Abzan Coco has to be TERRIBLE.
Just built the deck and I love it. Archangel is a house. I am playing 3 Gavony Township 1 Vault of the Archangel (Angel synergy with lifelink + Archangel in the name + deathtouch is great)
Also, just my 2 cents, if you are playing a chord deck you are conceding to tron so there is no reason to play red for tron hate anyway.
With all the ramp and small creatures these two seems to fit in nicely, and might serve a similar purpose to Gavony Township (only better).
Adding a copy of Brimaz, King of Oreskos can be a good idea as well.
My experience was that Lingering Souls made the Jund matchup even, but not positive. Scavenging Ooze and discard spells can really be a drubbing for souls when you have minimal removal.
I haven't tried either Ajani, but the 5-drop slot is full in the deck. The only card I could see trying out as the 5th archangel is probably Primal Command, but that seemed too slow to me. If I was going to try an Ajani I think it'd be the 3W one that can buff your other planeswalkers or give a guy vigilance and lifelink, but that's because I am on a planeswalker plan atm
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall