Any tips on non-devoted creature-combo matchups (e.g. kiki-chord, saheeli cats, various decks with eldritch evolution)?
Played a couple of times in my LGS and was buried under endless Voices of Resurgence, Sun Titans and everything. Feel that (like previously with Jund, before your help) I just misposition myself or sideboard wrong.
I'm definitely going to put Torpor Orb in my sb. Through MTGO and Modern events at my LGS I am currently 2-16. I really have no idea where I am going wrong in the match-up.
When do you guys know when to turn the corner? I feel like I'm always behind and mantis rider always wrecks me.
I'm definitely going to put Torpor Orb in my sb. Through MTGO and Modern events at my LGS I am currently 2-16. I really have no idea where I am going wrong in the match-up.
When do you guys know when to turn the corner? I feel like I'm always behind and mantis rider always wrecks me.
How are you mulliganing? What are you prioritizing? You just want to find temple+removal and if you don't have temple you better have 3 land and 3 removal spells and a reshaper. TKS is really good if you can get it on t2-3. Prioritize killing flyers of course, as much as I want to kill t1 hierarch, holding dismember/spatial to kill another dude may be better. Kill champion/lieutenant with gut shot and trigger on the stack if possible. Have 4 ratchet/3 spatial/2 gut in your sb. (I've been testing 1 culling scales in the 4th bomb slot, it's ok but it gets around stony silence which UW dude actually brought in against me then killed me with secure the wastes/snap/secure.) Torpor Orb might not be needed, although it is good vs primeval titan too. Reshaper I usually just jam into things unless it isn't going to at least trade. I believe Jordan's article said -4 ssg/4 chalice +3 spatial/2 gut/4 bomb (or 3 bomb/1 relic). Your dudes are usually always bigger so just smashing things into opp asap is usually fine. Our guys are individually good, whereas a lot of humans are synergy based so just forcing them to block is pretty good in order to keep their board presence lower, just don't throw away man lands if you aren't flooding, because you want to cast top decks. Also, our blinkies can chump mantis rider. Like any good black mage, our life is a resource, but dismember takes a fifth. Remember that you can recycle scourges with scavenger grounds/relic so don't be afraid to just trade. I imagine Reflector Mage is pretty annoying but our threats are sort of redundant.
I swear I do everything you're describing. Occasionally I kill the turn 1 hierarch, but maybe I shouldn't do that unless I'm gut shotting. If my only removal spell isn't being taken by the freebooter, I'm getting hit by multiple fliers, or tempo'd out with Reflector Mage. I have gotten them down to low life many times but they always seem to top deck out of it. I'm also using Jordan's 75 except I'm testing another gut shot in the sb over the cavern and have been siding just as you described -4 chalice package and in removal.
The only card that I think I may be playing incorrectly is Rachet Bomb. I usually let it set at 2 until I feel it is worth blowing.
I have also been screwed by meddling mage in many matches so idk why you're saying it isn't relevant. It only takes mage + phantasmal and all of a sudden I'm without meaningful threats. I always mulligan slow hands, and after sb never keep anything without removal (unless it is the nuts curve).
I swear I do everything you're describing. Occasionally I kill the turn 1 hierarch, but maybe I shouldn't do that unless I'm gut shotting. If my only removal spell isn't being taken by the freebooter, I'm getting hit by multiple fliers, or tempo'd out with Reflector Mage. I have gotten them down to low life many times but they always seem to top deck out of it. I'm also using Jordan's 75 except I'm testing another gut shot in the sb over the cavern and have been siding just as you described -4 chalice package and in removal.
The only card that I think I may be playing incorrectly is Rachet Bomb. I usually let it set at 2 until I feel it is worth blowing.
I have also been screwed by meddling mage in many matches so idk why you're saying it isn't relevant. It only takes mage + phantasmal and all of a sudden I'm without meaningful threats. I always mulligan slow hands, and after sb never keep anything without removal (unless it is the nuts curve).
Idk man sorry. Variance? Just hitting a 2 for 1 vs them is good with bomb or even keeping it on 3 to hit exactly mantis/reflector. Gut shot kills image too. I'd add 4th bomb over 3rd gut.
Dont like needle only because 4 cards. I play merfolk and it is wrong if your opponent try to handle with vial (only if they use counter and even so it is questionable).
In the past few weeks I've had some fairly good runs with the deck. 7-2 at the Atl SCG Classic, a 4-0 FNM, and on Saturday a 3-1-1 draw into Top 8 where I ended up losing the finals to straight UW Miracles. The only other losses were to Tron, Lantern, and UR Breach. I played against most of Moderns 'top decks' with absolutely decisive wins over jund, jeskai control, and affinity.
Humans is tough but close, and Bogles is a weird game, but aside from the losses I had and those matches most games felt basically like byes. Even Bogles has to have a practically perfect hand to win when you start on the play with a Chalice.
The only change I recently made to the last list was -1 Surgical in the board for +1 Endbringer. I just wanted.../something/ versatile that gave a few options when Bridge gets dropped. I'm in the modern seat for a local team event coming up in a few weeks and will likely keep it and run back the same 75. Aside from Grixis Twin and Jund, I haven't played a deck in Modern I've clicked with like this one.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
easy keep to me as well, turn 2 chalice, turn 1 removal, GQ interaction if necessary and a sol land. Leaves a ton of good top decks while being able to interact on multiple levels.
just checking in. Been running this deck quite a bit across several types of events, as well as with friends for competitive testing working towards the team GP later this year.
unfortunately, I've not had good success with the deck. I'm running it basically stock, taking as much advice and feedback on deck choices as I can, and feel like i've got a decent handle on the principles and lines of play. However, much like a few other decks in the format, I have found myself often getting to a point in games where my best threats are outclassed and I have no way back into a match, or my one or two beaters aren't enough to race a combo or fight through multiple sweepers.
what's more, part way through my testing I noticed a trend with this deck somewhere around the 60+ matches stage: I would get in early with a scourge or reshaper, chunk in over a few turns and nearly get my opponent to 0, but either a) never draw another legitimate threat and lose the game on turn 4 or 5 having cast only one or two creatures or b) draw two or three creatures which match up poorly against counterspells and removal (or are drawn a turn too late to matter against a combo strategy). I haven't been a glad recipient of the "need to topdeck smasher to turn the corner" scenario one sees so much in streamed matches with this deck, and in 100+ matches where I had outs if I drew a relevant threat, topdecking a chalice or a powder cost me a great many matches. Truly, in order to do well in aggregate, it seems you have to run particularly hot on drawing early smashers or multiple TKSs to be able to ride-out those topdecked dead cards. I played nine rounds recently in Birmingham and somehow didn't draw a Smasher the entire day. That's statistically unlikely, but it does raise a point, which is that Eldrazi Stompy hinges extremely hard on those undercosted heavy-hitters, and not drawing them renders your deck akin to a fairly average standard deck in terms of power. I did not do well that tournament. Seeing a bunch of cavern of souls across from me throughout the day didn't help either.
Before this anecdote draws criticism of my mulligan choices, I'd like to preemptively state that while initially my mulligans were a bit haphazard, lots of mulligan practice and testing buoyed me to a good standard of mulligan decision-making (and i'm basing this on wisdom from experts on this deck as well as my own experiences). I'm an academic and project manager for Learning, so critical analysis and research are strong aspects of my game (admittedly, the occasional mid-game punt is a weaker aspect of my game, but c'est la vie). Anyway - despite markedly improving my mulligans to what i'd consider a 'competitive' level, These same problems kept appearing.
the fragmented issues described above have happened enough times that it feels just like part of the deck, and what you sign up for by playing such a strategy. That's cool for some, and I certainly had fun! For me, however, this has led to looking elsewhere for my GP-conquering options.
i'm gonna bow out, but thanks for the inspiring list and the excitement of getting to play it. It really is an enjoyable deck to play, although I haven't been able to break even with it at a tournament yet, which heavily goes against the grain of my previous experiences and general play ability. As a modern player from day 1 of the format's inception, I have had below 50% winrates with only this deck and one other (affinity, around two years ago when affinity took a huge metagame smack in the face and disappeared for a few months, only to return later with vengeance. By that time i'd already traded out of the deck).
anyway, thanks again. all the best. I wish you all the success i've not been able to leverage.
Private Mod Note
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Against E-tron on the play, would you guys keep a hand of bomb, MR, mimic, GQ, waste, Blink and I had a scourge exiled.
I just feel like the hand is too slow. Maybe the disruption is good enough, but I feel like we wanna prioritize aggro vs control, especially on the play.
Purklefluff, seems you are running out of gas. Give relic a Chance...but REALLY a Chance. You have more maindeck creatures and you draw more cards. If this is really your Problem, solve it without Dogmas
A good friend of mind took my physical 75 to the Top 4 of SCG Regionals on Saturday. He went into the Top 8 5th Seed after 9 rounds and only lost rounds 1 and the Semifinals. I'll try to get more information from him in the near future, but for now he played against the following (with a few select quotes from him as he was giving me the details):
1: Affinity (L) "I never drew a lasting threat."
2: Soul Sisters (W) "Chalice is so f***ed."
3: Jeskai Control (W) "Beat the **** out of them."
4: Scapeshift (W) "The board has nothing vs Scapeshift, but turn 2 Smasher is gas."
5: UR Pyromancer (W) "His deck was all 1-drops."
6: RUG Value/Snap-Goyf-Mandrills-Become Immense-Blood Moon-Temur Battle Rage Thing (W) "He Blood Mooned himself out of the game."
7: Infect (W) "I had Caverns on 0, Dismembered his Noble, then Chaliced him."
8: Jeskai Control (W) "Beat him."
9: Intentional Draw (W)
Qtr: GR Bushwacker Zoo (W)
Semi: Jeskai Control (L, the eventual winner)
The Top 4 ended up being Jeskai, Jeskai, Hollow One, and Eldrazi, with Jeskai taking it down in the end. List's will likely be up whenever SCG gets them, but the 75 he used was the one I previously mentioned in responses with the Endbringer in the board over the Surgical.
so, any opnions about using 4 zhalfirin void over a 1 GC, 1 Cavern of souls, 1 seagate and 1 gemstone?
the last 3 eldrazi stompy that made to top 5 on scg regionals have some diferences between them, one got 2º place using base commom lands and a some variant SB, the other 2 had same baselands but some slight diferences on the SB.
Cavern feels unnecessary in this deck. I originally disagreed with Jordan, but I really have come around. One of the strengths of this deck is the diversity of value in your lands as spells. Cavern isn't enough value, oddly enough.
Zhalfirin Void is quite amazing. That is so much value that I don't miss 4-of GQ, Mutavault 3 and 4, or the 3rd Gemstone in the main. Sifting through the deck is very, very powerful.
Also, Mario Torres' sideboard had some pretty wild choices: Batterskull, Wurmcoil Engine, Basilisk Collar? Afraid of Burn? Trying to go toe-to-toe with G Tron? Strange angle to fight Human from? It would be interesting to hear from him about those choice. Wurmcoil Engine can be very hard for us to cast, and even Batterskull isn't easy.
I would probably have to say that this is all local meta gaming. I'm pretty sure if I have loads of control I'll want the 3 gemstones and maybe I'll be looking to side an endbringer. Same that I'll be looking against burn cause they are on bridge side now to have an endbringer as an out if I chalice 1 and 2 and can't remove a bridge.
If i was looking to configure like this knowing my meta will be control/burn would siding out a scry land for a gemstone be right to free up the slot for endbringer.
Any tips on non-devoted creature-combo matchups (e.g. kiki-chord, saheeli cats, various decks with eldritch evolution)?
Played a couple of times in my LGS and was buried under endless Voices of Resurgence, Sun Titans and everything. Feel that (like previously with Jund, before your help) I just misposition myself or sideboard wrong.
When do you guys know when to turn the corner? I feel like I'm always behind and mantis rider always wrecks me.
How are you mulliganing? What are you prioritizing? You just want to find temple+removal and if you don't have temple you better have 3 land and 3 removal spells and a reshaper. TKS is really good if you can get it on t2-3. Prioritize killing flyers of course, as much as I want to kill t1 hierarch, holding dismember/spatial to kill another dude may be better. Kill champion/lieutenant with gut shot and trigger on the stack if possible. Have 4 ratchet/3 spatial/2 gut in your sb. (I've been testing 1 culling scales in the 4th bomb slot, it's ok but it gets around stony silence which UW dude actually brought in against me then killed me with secure the wastes/snap/secure.) Torpor Orb might not be needed, although it is good vs primeval titan too. Reshaper I usually just jam into things unless it isn't going to at least trade. I believe Jordan's article said -4 ssg/4 chalice +3 spatial/2 gut/4 bomb (or 3 bomb/1 relic). Your dudes are usually always bigger so just smashing things into opp asap is usually fine. Our guys are individually good, whereas a lot of humans are synergy based so just forcing them to block is pretty good in order to keep their board presence lower, just don't throw away man lands if you aren't flooding, because you want to cast top decks. Also, our blinkies can chump mantis rider. Like any good black mage, our life is a resource, but dismember takes a fifth. Remember that you can recycle scourges with scavenger grounds/relic so don't be afraid to just trade. I imagine Reflector Mage is pretty annoying but our threats are sort of redundant.
The only card that I think I may be playing incorrectly is Rachet Bomb. I usually let it set at 2 until I feel it is worth blowing.
I have also been screwed by meddling mage in many matches so idk why you're saying it isn't relevant. It only takes mage + phantasmal and all of a sudden I'm without meaningful threats. I always mulligan slow hands, and after sb never keep anything without removal (unless it is the nuts curve).
Idk man sorry. Variance? Just hitting a 2 for 1 vs them is good with bomb or even keeping it on 3 to hit exactly mantis/reflector. Gut shot kills image too. I'd add 4th bomb over 3rd gut.
Humans is tough but close, and Bogles is a weird game, but aside from the losses I had and those matches most games felt basically like byes. Even Bogles has to have a practically perfect hand to win when you start on the play with a Chalice.
The only change I recently made to the last list was -1 Surgical in the board for +1 Endbringer. I just wanted.../something/ versatile that gave a few options when Bridge gets dropped. I'm in the modern seat for a local team event coming up in a few weeks and will likely keep it and run back the same 75. Aside from Grixis Twin and Jund, I haven't played a deck in Modern I've clicked with like this one.
Also, there is a white Eldrazi Stompy list that's been putting up really strong results in the last week or two, including a top 8 finish in the Modern PTQ and another top 4 finish in the Modern Challenge. https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-ptq-2018-05-29#none
Any thoughts on the list?
Ship it back. There are better hands you can mulligan into.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
unfortunately, I've not had good success with the deck. I'm running it basically stock, taking as much advice and feedback on deck choices as I can, and feel like i've got a decent handle on the principles and lines of play. However, much like a few other decks in the format, I have found myself often getting to a point in games where my best threats are outclassed and I have no way back into a match, or my one or two beaters aren't enough to race a combo or fight through multiple sweepers.
what's more, part way through my testing I noticed a trend with this deck somewhere around the 60+ matches stage: I would get in early with a scourge or reshaper, chunk in over a few turns and nearly get my opponent to 0, but either a) never draw another legitimate threat and lose the game on turn 4 or 5 having cast only one or two creatures or b) draw two or three creatures which match up poorly against counterspells and removal (or are drawn a turn too late to matter against a combo strategy). I haven't been a glad recipient of the "need to topdeck smasher to turn the corner" scenario one sees so much in streamed matches with this deck, and in 100+ matches where I had outs if I drew a relevant threat, topdecking a chalice or a powder cost me a great many matches. Truly, in order to do well in aggregate, it seems you have to run particularly hot on drawing early smashers or multiple TKSs to be able to ride-out those topdecked dead cards. I played nine rounds recently in Birmingham and somehow didn't draw a Smasher the entire day. That's statistically unlikely, but it does raise a point, which is that Eldrazi Stompy hinges extremely hard on those undercosted heavy-hitters, and not drawing them renders your deck akin to a fairly average standard deck in terms of power. I did not do well that tournament. Seeing a bunch of cavern of souls across from me throughout the day didn't help either.
Before this anecdote draws criticism of my mulligan choices, I'd like to preemptively state that while initially my mulligans were a bit haphazard, lots of mulligan practice and testing buoyed me to a good standard of mulligan decision-making (and i'm basing this on wisdom from experts on this deck as well as my own experiences). I'm an academic and project manager for Learning, so critical analysis and research are strong aspects of my game (admittedly, the occasional mid-game punt is a weaker aspect of my game, but c'est la vie). Anyway - despite markedly improving my mulligans to what i'd consider a 'competitive' level, These same problems kept appearing.
the fragmented issues described above have happened enough times that it feels just like part of the deck, and what you sign up for by playing such a strategy. That's cool for some, and I certainly had fun! For me, however, this has led to looking elsewhere for my GP-conquering options.
i'm gonna bow out, but thanks for the inspiring list and the excitement of getting to play it. It really is an enjoyable deck to play, although I haven't been able to break even with it at a tournament yet, which heavily goes against the grain of my previous experiences and general play ability. As a modern player from day 1 of the format's inception, I have had below 50% winrates with only this deck and one other (affinity, around two years ago when affinity took a huge metagame smack in the face and disappeared for a few months, only to return later with vengeance. By that time i'd already traded out of the deck).
anyway, thanks again. all the best. I wish you all the success i've not been able to leverage.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I just feel like the hand is too slow. Maybe the disruption is good enough, but I feel like we wanna prioritize aggro vs control, especially on the play.
1: Affinity (L) "I never drew a lasting threat."
2: Soul Sisters (W) "Chalice is so f***ed."
3: Jeskai Control (W) "Beat the **** out of them."
4: Scapeshift (W) "The board has nothing vs Scapeshift, but turn 2 Smasher is gas."
5: UR Pyromancer (W) "His deck was all 1-drops."
6: RUG Value/Snap-Goyf-Mandrills-Become Immense-Blood Moon-Temur Battle Rage Thing (W) "He Blood Mooned himself out of the game."
7: Infect (W) "I had Caverns on 0, Dismembered his Noble, then Chaliced him."
8: Jeskai Control (W) "Beat him."
9: Intentional Draw (W)
Qtr: GR Bushwacker Zoo (W)
Semi: Jeskai Control (L, the eventual winner)
The Top 4 ended up being Jeskai, Jeskai, Hollow One, and Eldrazi, with Jeskai taking it down in the end. List's will likely be up whenever SCG gets them, but the 75 he used was the one I previously mentioned in responses with the Endbringer in the board over the Surgical.
Edit: 2 cards different in the SB, he cut the 2nd Spyglass for a 2nd Gutshot, and the Caverns for an Endbringer.
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/121378
the last 3 eldrazi stompy that made to top 5 on scg regionals have some diferences between them, one got 2º place using base commom lands and a some variant SB, the other 2 had same baselands but some slight diferences on the SB.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1131520#online 3rd place
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1131531#online 5th place
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1131577#online 2nd place
Zhalfirin Void is quite amazing. That is so much value that I don't miss 4-of GQ, Mutavault 3 and 4, or the 3rd Gemstone in the main. Sifting through the deck is very, very powerful.
Also, Mario Torres' sideboard had some pretty wild choices: Batterskull, Wurmcoil Engine, Basilisk Collar? Afraid of Burn? Trying to go toe-to-toe with G Tron? Strange angle to fight Human from? It would be interesting to hear from him about those choice. Wurmcoil Engine can be very hard for us to cast, and even Batterskull isn't easy.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
If i was looking to configure like this knowing my meta will be control/burn would siding out a scry land for a gemstone be right to free up the slot for endbringer.
my side would be
1x spyglass
1x grafdiggers
1x endbringer
1x gut shot
2x surgical
3x spatial contort
3x ratchet bomb
3x relic of progenitus