Endless One is a curve-filler without compare, but I've been digging a one-of Looter Scooter a lot for this deck again lately. The dead draws are a real problem in a deck with so many redundant SSGs, Chalices, and Serum Powders, all of which tend to really only be good in opening turns most of the time.
smugglers copter is definitely great and a good fit in the deck, but it dies pretty much 95% of the time and makes opponents more likely to bring in stony silence (which i hope they dont)...
i get the endless one curve thing too. ... probably the better option for sure, but I would definitely say that ballista is not a WRONG choice though. its in the list of decent card pool cards, with things like smugglers copter.
i get the endless one curve thing too. ... probably the better option for sure, but I would definitely say that ballista is not a WRONG choice though. its in the list of decent card pool cards, with things like smugglers copter.
Agree to disagree.
On Copter, I think it's better now than it was before; there are fewer Pushes running around and flying has improved. I would love to play one over the third Reshaper but the Stony issue is real. I have found more experienced Modern players to not bring in Stony against us if the only activating artifact they see G1 is Powder, and to bring it in if they see Relic or Bomb, or I assume Copter (source: my Comp REL tournaments while I was playing Relic/Bomb main). If they don't see any of those cards, they deduce that we're not on Map since we don't play Tron lands and rush out the Chalice, and then keep their Stonies in the side, which basically gives us a free win in game 2 ---- the decks with Stony generally have a hard time beating Relic-Scourge. IMO it's a major liability to incentivize opponents to bring in Stony at all.
Since I dropped Bomb and transitioned to Endless Ones main and dropped the Bomb, I have seen fewer Stonies g2 and am winning more because of it.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
yeah, playing ballista also goes in the "incentive the opponent to bring stony in" camp... which is reason for me not to play it... ive also lost to lingering souls enough to really want my ratchet bombs in BW matches... eep.
I like this configuration against the current T1 decks. Warping Wail is pretty good atm. And with UW Control & Grixis DS and even Storm I like the MD Caverns. IMO Reshaper is really good in this deck and I wouldn't play less than 4. With only 3 Dismember Urborg is less needed which opens up the slot for an additional utility land. Though I wouldn't mind the fourth Dismember. I think Ballista is a good SB card against Affinity/Vizier.dec/DnT etc. but I wouldn't play it in the main. Hangarback is just a test.
Not necessarily superior but they add some additional utility. For example they are good against Dredge since you can exile Stinkweed Imp/ Bloodghast/ Golgari Thug and counter their Conflagrates and Cathartic Reunions.
Against Vizier decks sometimes the exile is relevant to prevent Witness from getting back a combo piece.
Against R/G Ponza you can counter some of their expensive sorceries while still being able to kill their Arbor Elfs.
and so on.
But most importantly it is decent in the Scapeshift MU - one of the more difficult MUs, while Spatial Contortion is not.
Against decks like Affinity they are equal most of the time.
I think it is a meta question. If for example there are more cards in the meta that Warping Wail doesn't hit, like Spell Queller, then Spatial Contortion gets much better. I think in the current meta it is well positioned.
Surgical Extraction can do decent work against Scapeshift decks in combination with Ghost Quarter, and it is much better against Dredge (hit Bloodghast for best results). It's similarly good against Gx Tron decks, though not against Eldrazi Tron. Extraction also allows sick value from Eternal Scourge--getting all four into exile, especially with a Relic active, is pretty tough for many decks to overcome in the mid-to-lategame.
I'm sold on a one-of Cavern of Souls in the main for sure--counterspells are really picking up lately. Against non-blue decks I typically name "Ape" so I can cast my SSGs lategame if needed.
@deaddrift:
Surgical against Valakut can work out but it is a three card combo: 1. they have to play valakut 2&3 you have to have GQ and Surgical. So it is not too reliable. Warping Wail is always going to counter a ramp spell or even a scapeshift so it is consistent even though clearly less powerful than the potential of Surgical in this particular MU. I like Warping Wail because it is removal. Surgical is not. So I wouldn't compare these two / they are not competing for the same SB slot. Wail and Spatial Contortion are competing. As said if there are more MUs where Wail is not sufficient (Merfolk is probably the best example) than I would want more Contortion as well. I think against the current T1/T2 decks wail is a bit better but this might change quickly.
Btw I'm not against Surgical. But I wouldn't want to cut the other SB cards for it. They seem more important to me. One could argue that Hangarback is not needed since the lategame plan against grindy decks is already really good. But I like the clean swap of -4 Mimic, -2 Endless One, +4 Relic, +2 Hangarback against Grixis DS.
Ballista is also competing for the same removal SB slot as Warping Wail and Spatial Contortion (and Ratchet Bomb/Gut Shot). Maybe in the end it proves to be worse than Spatial Contortion.
@mtgnorin:
Interesting take on the manabase. How does your manabase look like? I'm not sure if Tec Edge is where this deck wants to be. Sometimes it is obviously great but this deck can make use of excessive mana quite well with recasting Scourge and Sea Gate. But I do like Tec Edge...
What does your list look like?
@all:
Played a second league: 4-1 and played the Modern Challenge yesterday and went 5-2 loosing the last one to Affinity so missed out on Top8 unfortunately, but still pleased with how the deck performed.
@all:
Played a second league: 4-1 and played the Modern Challenge yesterday and went 5-2 loosing the last one to Affinity so missed out on Top8 unfortunately, but still pleased with how the deck performed.
Your deck got on mtggoldfish again. I'm slowly picking up the pieces for this.
What would you say are the chances of success without chalices?
Any tips for running a budget-ish version while I gather the expensive cards from the manabase?
@mtgnorin
Interesting. I will try a version with Tec Edge instead of Blinkmoth to get a feel for it. How I anticipate the MUs: get better: Scapeshift, all tron variants, Control, Bant Eldrazi. get worse: Affinity, Abzan, DnT.
@AsesinoQc
I think this deck functions quite reasonably on a budget. And you can easily later expand it to Eldrazi Tron or other Eldrazi Variants if you feel like doing so/want to change it up.
The whole creature package (besides TKS but he is a must) is really cheap (looking at online prices) and the landbase isn't expensive either.
I would play the four Relic instead of Chalice in the main and your land of choice instead of Cavern (about 100 tix for the MD). So if you don't play Chalice you should probably adapt your SB a little to help in the MUs where you would want Chalice (Burn, Grixis DS etc.)
Ashtonkutcher has already played a list with MD Relic for a while if I recall correctly. You will find his lists in the primer or on Modernnexus (You should definitely read his articles about this deck there). That's certainly a good starting point.
Btw: Don't play the sword (still in my list on mtggoldfish) it's expensive and bad.
endless ones are feeling good! ... i can get behind a couple caverns as well currently.
ive been playing two endbringers SB and they are great when we want to SB into more midrange style deck. all is dust is also quite good and playable, just as a 1 of so it doesnt clutter up the hand ( 2 if you feel spicy)
i think surgical +GQ is just not a great way to deal with valakut. we can usually just race them with a good hand. and one thought knot+smasher is usually enough to win. I dont find dredge to be much of a problem per say. relics+smashers can usually win that match, but warping wail is nice if you like running it. Spatial has dual utility as well as a pump for tks or smasher... I win a lot that way, as a bolt to the face.
while im like 7-1 vs grixis shadow (only loss to dan jessup), im like 2-8 vs all eldrazi variants (BW, bant, tron) ... I think i need to learn to be more patient in those matches? ... idk.
endless ones are feeling good! ... i can get behind a couple caverns as well currently.
ive been playing two endbringers SB and they are great when we want to SB into more midrange style deck. all is dust is also quite good and playable, just as a 1 of so it doesnt clutter up the hand ( 2 if you feel spicy)
i think surgical +GQ is just not a great way to deal with valakut. we can usually just race them with a good hand. and one thought knot+smasher is usually enough to win. I dont find dredge to be much of a problem per say. relics+smashers can usually win that match, but warping wail is nice if you like running it. Spatial has dual utility as well as a pump for tks or smasher... I win a lot that way, as a bolt to the face.
while im like 7-1 vs grixis shadow (only loss to dan jessup), im like 2-8 vs all eldrazi variants (BW, bant, tron) ... I think i need to learn to be more patient in those matches? ... idk.
You are probably just boarding wrong. Here's my plan for ET:
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
while im like 7-1 vs grixis shadow (only loss to dan jessup), im like 2-8 vs all eldrazi variants (BW, bant, tron) ... I think i need to learn to be more patient in those matches? ... idk.
You are probably just boarding wrong. Here's my plan for ET:
Yeah similar. Eldrazitron in particular I'm like 4-4 vs. so that's how it should be. bant eldrazi, bw eldrazi, eldrazi and taxes, in 1-7 combined against...maybe I shouldn't worry cause they are smaller meta percentage...
"He had turn two thought knot both games" ...is a phrase you get used to hearing. Heh.
T
Anyone else running one all is dust over a bomb? I can't imagine going back now.
@ashtonkutcher: May i ask what your most current list looks like?
Im playing this list, with some minor adjustements: http://modernnexus.com/contorting-competition-scg-invitational-report/
Im currently testing for 3 Reshaper (instead of 4) and abandoned the 1 off Bomb for 2 Endless ones, and in the side i cut surgical and gut shot for 2 Grafdigger's Cage to fight Company (and to some splashhated extend it also fights Dredge, and sometimes can combat those abomination-type Madcap Decks or Nahiri Stuff, as well as some over the top uw control decks with SunTitan and Snapcaster)
At the moment company decks are giving me the hardest time. If you handle their combo pieces, they will just gavony overrun you, if you try to race them, finks and alike will keep them going just long enough to combo off.... feels tough, which is why i added 2 Cage.
But i would be very interested in what you are playing at the moment. Would you recommend going to Copters again, or do you think they are still too unreliable since push still is a thing? I found often to beat with Blinkmoth as the only "out", and copter could fix that i'd assume or make that "plan" better
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The great Eldrazi Overlords will return to the Modern World.
@AsesinoQc
I think this deck functions quite reasonably on a budget. And you can easily later expand it to Eldrazi Tron or other Eldrazi Variants if you feel like doing so/want to change it up.
The whole creature package (besides TKS but he is a must) is really cheap (looking at online prices) and the landbase isn't expensive either.
I would play the four Relic instead of Chalice in the main and your land of choice instead of Cavern (about 100 tix for the MD). So if you don't play Chalice you should probably adapt your SB a little to help in the MUs where you would want Chalice (Burn, Grixis DS etc.)
Ashtonkutcher has already played a list with MD Relic for a while if I recall correctly. You will find his lists in the primer or on Modernnexus (You should definitely read his articles about this deck there). That's certainly a good starting point.
Btw: Don't play the sword (still in my list on mtggoldfish) it's expensive and bad.
If I cut the chalices, do I keep the SSGs? If not, is it wise to maindeck SB cards?
Would you eventually straight swap the caverns for XLN's Unclaimed territory (new tribal land w/o uncouterable) or more utility lands?
I have Eldrazi & Taxes and now a playset of smashers. i'm looking for something packing more punch without spending my pension fund
There's also a fair amount of aggro and creture-toolbox at my LGS is warping wail still more suitable for those MU than spatial contortion (merfolk, chord of calling, and a sprinkle of CoCo)
@AsesionQc I have never played a version without Chalice. mtgnorins list is without Chalice and SSG. Take a look at it. Similarly I would try the list Ashtonkutcher played with maindeck relic instead of Chalice and go from there. If you feel comfortable with the configuration - great and if you feel the need to try the other way around (with or without) then you can swap afterwards. If you don't play SSG go for cards like an additional Dismember/Copter/Endless one/etc. But don't go for hardcore sideboard cards like Pithing Needle, Surgical, All is Dust or the like.
I would not want to play Unclaimed territory. You absolutely never want the colored mana from it. Go for other utility lands.
Just getting into this deck and I absolutely love it! I'm just wondering why it really isn't played that often? I went 8-1 on xmage with it last night and that's the best record I've been able to string together in one sitting with any deck - tiered or not. Any reason I should not take this to a tournament or my LGS? Thanks!
I played against a odd variant of this deck last night, it ran expedition map to make sure to get eldrazi temple. The card to be pretty awesome with serum powder, just improve the odds to the get the temple.
Expedition Map is terrible in this deck, without question. It eats up T1 and T2 when you should be pumping out a Chalice and/or an above-curve 2-for-1 threat. The deck runs Serum Powder so it can mull away any hand that would call for Map.
Expedition Map is terrible in this deck, without question. It eats up T1 and T2 when you should be pumping out a Chalice and/or an above-curve 2-for-1 threat. The deck runs Serum Powder so it can mull away any hand that would call for Map.
Well it seem to work for him in that game, I did play last night at my local card store and tried out Eldrazi obligator, fixed a few lands to incorporate it. I was able to steal two creatures that night which ended the game. It definitely caught my opponent off guard
i get the endless one curve thing too. ... probably the better option for sure, but I would definitely say that ballista is not a WRONG choice though. its in the list of decent card pool cards, with things like smugglers copter.
On Copter, I think it's better now than it was before; there are fewer Pushes running around and flying has improved. I would love to play one over the third Reshaper but the Stony issue is real. I have found more experienced Modern players to not bring in Stony against us if the only activating artifact they see G1 is Powder, and to bring it in if they see Relic or Bomb, or I assume Copter (source: my Comp REL tournaments while I was playing Relic/Bomb main). If they don't see any of those cards, they deduce that we're not on Map since we don't play Tron lands and rush out the Chalice, and then keep their Stonies in the side, which basically gives us a free win in game 2 ---- the decks with Stony generally have a hard time beating Relic-Scourge. IMO it's a major liability to incentivize opponents to bring in Stony at all.
Since I dropped Bomb and transitioned to Endless Ones main and dropped the Bomb, I have seen fewer Stonies g2 and am winning more because of it.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Decklist:
4 Eternal Scourge
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endless One
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Wastes
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Mutavault
3 Sea Gate Wreckage
3 Gemstone Caverns
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Serum Powder
3 Dismember
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Relic of Progenitus
1 Spatial Contortion
3 Warping Wail
2 Hangarback Walker
2 Walking Ballista
I like this configuration against the current T1 decks. Warping Wail is pretty good atm. And with UW Control & Grixis DS and even Storm I like the MD Caverns. IMO Reshaper is really good in this deck and I wouldn't play less than 4. With only 3 Dismember Urborg is less needed which opens up the slot for an additional utility land. Though I wouldn't mind the fourth Dismember. I think Ballista is a good SB card against Affinity/Vizier.dec/DnT etc. but I wouldn't play it in the main. Hangarback is just a test.
Did you find them superiour?
Against Vizier decks sometimes the exile is relevant to prevent Witness from getting back a combo piece.
Against R/G Ponza you can counter some of their expensive sorceries while still being able to kill their Arbor Elfs.
and so on.
But most importantly it is decent in the Scapeshift MU - one of the more difficult MUs, while Spatial Contortion is not.
Against decks like Affinity they are equal most of the time.
I think it is a meta question. If for example there are more cards in the meta that Warping Wail doesn't hit, like Spell Queller, then Spatial Contortion gets much better. I think in the current meta it is well positioned.
I'm sold on a one-of Cavern of Souls in the main for sure--counterspells are really picking up lately. Against non-blue decks I typically name "Ape" so I can cast my SSGs lategame if needed.
Surgical against Valakut can work out but it is a three card combo: 1. they have to play valakut 2&3 you have to have GQ and Surgical. So it is not too reliable. Warping Wail is always going to counter a ramp spell or even a scapeshift so it is consistent even though clearly less powerful than the potential of Surgical in this particular MU. I like Warping Wail because it is removal. Surgical is not. So I wouldn't compare these two / they are not competing for the same SB slot. Wail and Spatial Contortion are competing. As said if there are more MUs where Wail is not sufficient (Merfolk is probably the best example) than I would want more Contortion as well. I think against the current T1/T2 decks wail is a bit better but this might change quickly.
Btw I'm not against Surgical. But I wouldn't want to cut the other SB cards for it. They seem more important to me. One could argue that Hangarback is not needed since the lategame plan against grindy decks is already really good. But I like the clean swap of -4 Mimic, -2 Endless One, +4 Relic, +2 Hangarback against Grixis DS.
Ballista is also competing for the same removal SB slot as Warping Wail and Spatial Contortion (and Ratchet Bomb/Gut Shot). Maybe in the end it proves to be worse than Spatial Contortion.
@mtgnorin:
Interesting take on the manabase. How does your manabase look like? I'm not sure if Tec Edge is where this deck wants to be. Sometimes it is obviously great but this deck can make use of excessive mana quite well with recasting Scourge and Sea Gate. But I do like Tec Edge...
What does your list look like?
@all:
Played a second league: 4-1 and played the Modern Challenge yesterday and went 5-2 loosing the last one to Affinity so missed out on Top8 unfortunately, but still pleased with how the deck performed.
Your deck got on mtggoldfish again. I'm slowly picking up the pieces for this.
What would you say are the chances of success without chalices?
Any tips for running a budget-ish version while I gather the expensive cards from the manabase?
Interesting. I will try a version with Tec Edge instead of Blinkmoth to get a feel for it. How I anticipate the MUs: get better: Scapeshift, all tron variants, Control, Bant Eldrazi. get worse: Affinity, Abzan, DnT.
@AsesinoQc
I think this deck functions quite reasonably on a budget. And you can easily later expand it to Eldrazi Tron or other Eldrazi Variants if you feel like doing so/want to change it up.
The whole creature package (besides TKS but he is a must) is really cheap (looking at online prices) and the landbase isn't expensive either.
I would play the four Relic instead of Chalice in the main and your land of choice instead of Cavern (about 100 tix for the MD). So if you don't play Chalice you should probably adapt your SB a little to help in the MUs where you would want Chalice (Burn, Grixis DS etc.)
Ashtonkutcher has already played a list with MD Relic for a while if I recall correctly. You will find his lists in the primer or on Modernnexus (You should definitely read his articles about this deck there). That's certainly a good starting point.
Btw: Don't play the sword (still in my list on mtggoldfish) it's expensive and bad.
ive been playing two endbringers SB and they are great when we want to SB into more midrange style deck. all is dust is also quite good and playable, just as a 1 of so it doesnt clutter up the hand ( 2 if you feel spicy)
i think surgical +GQ is just not a great way to deal with valakut. we can usually just race them with a good hand. and one thought knot+smasher is usually enough to win. I dont find dredge to be much of a problem per say. relics+smashers can usually win that match, but warping wail is nice if you like running it. Spatial has dual utility as well as a pump for tks or smasher... I win a lot that way, as a bolt to the face.
while im like 7-1 vs grixis shadow (only loss to dan jessup), im like 2-8 vs all eldrazi variants (BW, bant, tron) ... I think i need to learn to be more patient in those matches? ... idk.
-4 Guide
-4 Chalice
+4 Bomb
+2 Needle
+1 Surgical
+1 Spatial
What are you doing differently?
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
+2 needle
+2 bomb
+2 endbringer
+2 spatial
-4 chalice
-4 ape
Yeah similar. Eldrazitron in particular I'm like 4-4 vs. so that's how it should be. bant eldrazi, bw eldrazi, eldrazi and taxes, in 1-7 combined against...maybe I shouldn't worry cause they are smaller meta percentage...
"He had turn two thought knot both games" ...is a phrase you get used to hearing. Heh.
T
Anyone else running one all is dust over a bomb? I can't imagine going back now.
Im playing this list, with some minor adjustements:
http://modernnexus.com/contorting-competition-scg-invitational-report/
Im currently testing for 3 Reshaper (instead of 4) and abandoned the 1 off Bomb for 2 Endless ones, and in the side i cut surgical and gut shot for 2 Grafdigger's Cage to fight Company (and to some splashhated extend it also fights Dredge, and sometimes can combat those abomination-type Madcap Decks or Nahiri Stuff, as well as some over the top uw control decks with SunTitan and Snapcaster)
At the moment company decks are giving me the hardest time. If you handle their combo pieces, they will just gavony overrun you, if you try to race them, finks and alike will keep them going just long enough to combo off.... feels tough, which is why i added 2 Cage.
But i would be very interested in what you are playing at the moment. Would you recommend going to Copters again, or do you think they are still too unreliable since push still is a thing? I found often to beat with Blinkmoth as the only "out", and copter could fix that i'd assume or make that "plan" better
If I cut the chalices, do I keep the SSGs? If not, is it wise to maindeck SB cards?
Would you eventually straight swap the caverns for XLN's Unclaimed territory (new tribal land w/o uncouterable) or more utility lands?
I have Eldrazi & Taxes and now a playset of smashers. i'm looking for something packing more punch without spending my pension fund
There's also a fair amount of aggro and creture-toolbox at my LGS is warping wail still more suitable for those MU than spatial contortion (merfolk, chord of calling, and a sprinkle of CoCo)
I would not want to play Unclaimed territory. You absolutely never want the colored mana from it. Go for other utility lands.
Go for Spatial Contortion in this case.
I really like it here. 1 main 1 side.
Just getting into this deck and I absolutely love it! I'm just wondering why it really isn't played that often? I went 8-1 on xmage with it last night and that's the best record I've been able to string together in one sitting with any deck - tiered or not. Any reason I should not take this to a tournament or my LGS? Thanks!
Thanks for posting this. Would you give a few pointers on how you sideboard against various decks?
Well it seem to work for him in that game, I did play last night at my local card store and tried out Eldrazi obligator, fixed a few lands to incorporate it. I was able to steal two creatures that night which ended the game. It definitely caught my opponent off guard
I'm interested in knowing your Mana base now. If I was going to incorporate a color it'd probably be white for rest in peace in the side.
U Mono U Tron
WR Boros Burn with one Stomping Ground
UR Storm
C Eldrazi Powder
G Mono Green Tron