I've been playing Phyrexian Metamorph too as a one-of and I'm not convinced.
It's occasionally decent when it's unexpected, but on the long run, I'd rather have a 100% reliable creature threat, especially one that I can use my temples to cast.
Several times I happened to draw it in close games with a clean board state and nothing to copy...
Several times the fact that's its not an eldrazi would not allow me to cast it advantageously.
To sum it up, it's not terrible, but it can be a dead card, and it's rarely decisive.
I will be removing it from my list for my next event, probably switching it for an Endless One or a Warping Wail.
Hey Guys. Austin Gattuso here. I have been playing this deck since last August and I love it. I've had some good success with it and I've seen my name pop up on here a few times while researching the deck online.
If anyone has any questions about choices I've made in deckbuilding, or how certain matchups went in the Open, Classic, or local events feel free to ask.
I played against Pheonix several times in that event. It's a great matchup for Eldrazi. Chalice crushes the deck. I generally used my serum powders to find Chalice and Dismember. The only way you usually lose to that deck is if they flip a Thing in Ice so the Dismembers are good for killing it. Drake can be annoying but it comes down rather late so you can usually smasher through it or take it with TKS. So the threat you care about is Thing in Ice. And as stated behind a Chalice you're safe. You can be very aggressive and race the Phoenix or block it with Blinkmoth while pushing damage. After board the Leyline plan tears up any hope they have. This is probably all stuff you know already, but yes I can verify that the matchup is good.
Hi @agattuso and thanks for posting. Could you let us know your thoughts about sideboard cards Torpor Orb and The Immortal Sun. How did they work for you? I can see Orb having use against a few decks, but when did you or plan to use Orb and Sun? thanks
Hi @agattuso and thanks for posting. Could you let us know your thoughts about sideboard cards Torpor Orb and The Immortal Sun. How did they work for you? I can see Orb having use against a few decks, but when did you or plan to use Orb and Sun? thanks
Okay so through various testing before the team event I concluded that Humans is not a great matchup. You can beat humans pretty switfly if they draw the wrong part of their deck and you draw the right part of your deck. But my win percentage was still very low against that matchup. Suprisingly the matchup against spirits is about 50/50 you can race them with aggressive draws. But Humans can go wide, and fly above with Mantis Riders. Cards such as Reflector Mage, Mantis Rider, Thalia's Lieutenant, and worst of all Phantasmal Image make this matchup very difficult if your opponent knows what they are doing. Considering my Eldrazi deck has a good matchup or even matchup against majority of the Modern field I wanted to devote some slots to Humans specifically. Torpor Orb is great against them, yes it shuts down Mimic and Thought Knot, but it allows you to play a fair game of magic where the bigger creatures will win, and Eldrazi are bigger. So Humans is the only reason it's in my board. I bring in the 2 Endbringer and 4 Spatial Contortion as well. I still don't think the matchup is great even after all of those changes and I'm going to keep working on different strategies to beat it consistently as long as Humans remains popular. Also to note, Torpor Orb was sided in against Kiki Combo in that tournament and it's very good against the random 4 color Saheeli decks that come up on occasion, so the card did find utility elsewhere. I will likely keep it in my board.
The Immortal Sun. I didn't have this in my sideboard for the team event. In fact it was something I threw into my sideboard 10 minutes before the event started, and to be honest I wasn't serious about playing it. I did side it in against Jeskai and UW, but never drew it. If it resolves I assume it will be good, but Cryptic Command and Logic Knot make me less excited about the card. I would have liked to test it more before the Classic but its test trial ended up being the Classic... I plan to test with it further but I assume a better answer to beating these control decks does exist, I can't say I recommend it. I expect to remove it from my board soon.
Hello @agattuso, congratulations of your last success and on your previous successes with the deck as well.
Your decklist, and by extension approach to this deck's philosophy seem to differ from the approach Jordan Boisvert is advocating. Most notably, you are swapping relics from leylines, but also missing some key interaction cards from your sideboard, ratchet bomb and gut shot being the most important. You are running some powerful hate cards in their place - I recall seeing damping sphere, torpor orb and thorn of amethyst in your 75 over the past few months. Would you care to comment on these choices - I am very interested in your opinion on r. bomb, as I see that card being the most important sideboard card and I would never register CES list without 3 copies in the SB.
I would also appreciate your comment on the Endbringer. I do not understand the role of that card in the 75, and I am very intrigued by your most recent list featuring 3 copies of that card. The card is very powerful and untapping with it often means winning the game versus large percentage of the field, but do you really need it? It feels like the card you would bring in when you need your deck to have more 'gas', more impactful cards and better topdecks, but from my experience the deck almost never needs to go that route after sideboarding - against jund, junk, mardu etc I am siding in my 4 relics, 3 contortions and 3 ratchet bombs and taking out 4 chalices and 4 guides, and that sideboard plan makes perfect sense and yields excelent results - I really dont think any additional wincons are needed for that MU. I could see 1 endbringer being run MD in a more midrange- and aggro-oriented metagame, but the additional copies in the sb really confuse me.
Just for the record, I have not been playing this deck lately, nor have I taken it to a single Comp REL event since Phoenix was sanctioned. So re: Relic, Sphere, etc., I would advise deferring to whoever is putting up consistent results with the deck (in this case, Austin). I still stand by everything I've written on CES, but the Modern metagame is always shifting, and some of the theory contained in those pieces (including deck core analysis) may well be outdated by now.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
@begovicg9
I'd like to start by clarifying that I love Ratchet Bomb and think it's completely acceptable in the sideboard. I've recently steered away from it. The matchups it has been good in are already very beatable, Affinity, Elves, Spirits, Mardu tokens, etc. (I can't include Humans as this Matchup is bad with or without Ratchet Bomb).
I would never completely side-out Chalice against any of these matchups (Except Humans/Spirits) I have found that playing 4 copies of Spatial Contortion and some number of Chalice has allowed me to maintain my aggressive gameplan while removing the threats that matter. I don't want to stack up on to many non-creature spells especially slow ones.
One could argue Ratchet Bomb is our way of beating Ensnaring Bridge in the 75, But those decks usually run several needle effects anyways.
I could see playing Ratchet Bomb again in future tournaments but when playing the card I feel like I'm aiming for a more grindy gameplan despite the deck being aggresive and ratchet bomb isn't the card I want to utilize for that in this current meta. Although it's still a great card and it may find its way back into my 75 soon.
The 2nd thing I'd like to clarify is that I DO NOT like Relic of Progenitus. I don't see myself registering any copies in my 75 in this meta.
The reason this deck has been so powerful for me in this meta is thanks to Chalice of the Void and Serum Powder.
We want to Chalice on 1 against most decks in the format. Chalice on 0 can also be terrifying for some decks as well. I don't want any 1 mana cost cards in my 75. I am a Chalice of the Void deck and I don't want anything to be countered by my own Chalice.
I understand Relic has synergy with Scourge and it can even draw us a card. But Leyline of the Void is the best existing graveyard hate and demolishes Dredge, Phoenix, Grixis Shadow, Crucible Prison Decks, Mardu Tokens, etc.
I have tried to fill my sideboard with the most powerful cards I can play to completely dismantle other strategies. When I Serum Powder games 2 and 3 I am searching for these powerful sideboard cards rather than just Temples. Serum Powder being able to find ample removal spells for creature decks, Chalice for the decks that can't beat it, and Leyline as the best offence against Graveyard strategies is the reason this deck is so good.
I will always be playing 3-4 copies of Leyline of the Void over Relic unless something drastic changes in this current meta.
As for Endbringer... I was disappointed overall with its performance. I do think this deck wants a "go bigger" strategy for strictly UW Control, Jeskai, and Crucible Prison. I think the Jund/Abzan matchup is fine but you could use such a strategy against them as well. I thought Endbringer might be the card but after the Classic I can say I was wrong. I will be removing it from my 75.
As for this go bigger strategy my next plan (call me crazy) is to try Oblivion Sowers x3 and Ulamogue Ceaseless Hungers x2 in the sideboard. I'm not saying this is correct but after everything I have collected it's something I think is worth trying. Again... I will just be testing this.
Immortal Sun was a joke card shoved into my deck last minute that I never drew. I don't recommend it and can't clarify if it's good, probably not great thanks to Logic Knot and Cryptic Command.
I have never played Thorn of Amethyst in my 75 but I think it's interesting, but likely not good enough.
Lastly Baby Karn and Batterskull. I played Batterskull as a way to get over decks trying to go wide or bigger than us, its also fine in grindy games. I no longer play it in my 75 despite it performing well.
Karn was for UW Control when it was more popular than Jeskai. They don't have many clean answers to removing it once its in play and it digs very deep and helps find Dismembers which are important for the Angel's in Games 2 and 3. I still think this card is great, depending on what I expect to see at upcoming tournaments I could find it in my 75 again, it performs well. But maybe just play 1 rather than 2.
I'm surprised you don't play any Zhalfirin Void in your list. I run a playset, and would probably not run fewer than three of them. I don't use Cavern of Souls, in part because the counterspell decks tend to struggle against a Scourge or two backed up by a Relic. At that point their only real out is Terminus, but Extraction can often get all the Scourges back into exile as needed.
Just my $.02. I've played this deck off and on since late 2016, and to me Zhalfirin Void seems like an irreplaceable component of the deck.
@deadrift
I think Zhalfirin Void is great. I played 3 Void over 3 Cavern of Souls at the Open.
After losing to Seth Manfield and Brad Nelson on Jeskai Control largely in part to counterspells I decided to make the switch. I do believe that this deck has a lot of play against Jeskai and UW without the Caverns, but against the very good control players I fealt Cavern was acceptable. Also there's the random upside of casting Spirit Guides and sneaking through random Ceremonious Rejection with Cavern.
I also fealt Void never did enough, it is great, but this deck plays well enough off the top that I never fealt the Scry 1 being to necessary. That being said I think there's an argument for Zhalfirin Void and plan to test it more before my next event.
@Caam
Unfortunately due to work I won't be going to any big events until Regionals.
If you are looking for a list I'm very confident in what I top 8'd the Classic with minus 3 Endbringer and an Immortal Sun (These cards disappointed me that weekend).
Up until Regionals though I will be testing many different things out for the Sideboard. If I make any groundbreaking discoveries I will post them here, but sadly I don't have my new set list of 75 done yet.
I think most Serum Eldrazi lists are just fine for this meta in general as long as the Humans deck keeps dropping in popularity.
Thanks for your response. I have always felt this deck plays pretty awful off the top, which is why I like the Voids so much. Best of luck in your future efforts.
@agattuso
What cards are you taking out vs pheonix? I feel like almost all of my cards are strong or needed in some way in the match and I dont know what to cut. Currently I am trimming smashers to play hate cards
Also, how do you feel about scavenger grounds? It has felt too slow for graveyard hate for me, and I'm not keen on stone raining myself in a grindy match, where I'm most likely going to see some amount of land destruction. Thinking of going back to sea gate wreckage as a grindy element.
@Bighauss471
I played in an IQ yesterday. I played against Pheonix twice throughout the event. I was testing 1 Oblivion Sower in my flex spot.
That being said I sided like this on the play:
-1 Oblivion Sower
-2 Simian Spirit Guide
-1 Gemstone Caverns
+ 4 Leyline of the Void
If I was on the draw I sided like this:
-1 Oblivion Sower
-2 Simian Spirit Guide
-1 Eternal Scourge
+4 Leyline of the Void
I sided out 1 Eternal Scourge because it's the worst Eldrazi when fighting the Pheonix deck. Despite Chalice countering one mana removal they can still target the Scourge and exile it. Scourge also can't swing through Cackling Drake or Thing in Ice.
Oblivion Sower is too much mana and I don't want it exiling their spells to feed their Cackling Drakes.
In this matchup look for your Dismembers with Serum Powder. Chalice is great but they can still win with Thing in Ice. Dismember can also kill the Drake. Disrupt them and then be as aggressive as possible.
As for Scavenger Grounds I never really find myself using it to hate on graveyards but the option to is never bad. It usually exiles my Eternal Scourges when the game REALLY grinds. It can snipe a Tarmogoyf or a Snapcaster Mage on occasion, but usually it shines in the grindy games. Obviously I won't stone rain myself if the situation isn't ideal or it will keep me off 5 mana. But usually the game grinds when the Eldrazi deck floods, so I haven't had stone-raining myself be an issue. I never was a big fan of SeaGate Wreckage in testing, but that's just my personal experience. I'm sure 1 SeaGate Wreckage wouldn't be a bad addition, but for now I plan to stick with my 2 Scavenger Grounds.
I would like to add my 2c to the discussion regarding the sideboarding plan versus izzet phoenix, as friend and I had been testing it over the weekend and made some notes based on 30+ games with different post-sb configurations on both sides.
We came to conclusion that you don't want to be too controlling and should limit yourself to bringing in just your graveyard hate, be it relic of progenitus or leyline of the void. Bringing in ratchet bomb as additional removal for thing in the ice is apparently too specific, although with pteramander showing up in more recent lists bomb has more targets and one copy could be sided in.
Regarding the cards you should cut, we identified the 3-power eldrazi as the weakest cards in our deck. If you have 23 lands going to 22 on the draw seems ok. I would never cut SSG, especially not on the draw. Turn 1 chalice turns a great percentage of their opening hands into unplayable, so I would never reduce my chances on making that play.
Regarding the decision which 3-power eldrazi should be cut, Matter Reshaper or Eternal Scourge, I have landed on 3 reshaper and 1 scourge split. Scourge may be turning on their otherwise dead bolts into unsummons with chalice on 1, but it still has the synergy with powder and is a horror, meaning that it is not being bounced by Awoken Horror, which can be crucial in racing situations. I would also consider cutting 3 3-drops and 1 Reality Smasher for curve considerations.
I can agree Chalice on 1 is great against Pheonix and it will normally win you game 1. But Chalice isn't the end all game 2 considering they side into artifact removal and will likely question if their opening hand can beat Chalice. Cutting 2 Spirit Guide allows you to reduce bad topdecks which is ideal for my specific list considering I bring in 4 Leyline of the Void. Maybe this changes if you're on Relic of Progenitus. But relying on a turn 1 Chalice game 2 against pheonix isn't a great strategy if your opponent is a good player. I will never cut Reality Smasher in this matchup, it applies a lot of pressure and can swing through all of their threats racing them as well.
Also playing Chalice a turn later is still just as good against them. But most of the time I don't expect Chalice of the Void to stay on board game 2 and I'd rather rely on graveyard hate, removal, and aggressive draws to win game 2.
Glad you did well Austin! I actually talked to you and thought you looked familiar but when you asked me for sowers I figured you were there for the legacy classic lol. I brought eldrazi too cuz i figured I'd be playing against phoenix, burn, and shadow but alas I went 3-4 before dropping.
L Spirits 0-2
W Jund 2-1
L Tron 1-2
W Jeskai 2-1
L Grixis Whir 1-2
W Jund 2-1
L Kiki Combo (possibly pod) 0-2
I was salty at first because I didn't get to play any of the most popular decks but I felt good about how I did because I won every winnable matchup. Spirits got me because no removal game one and game two double drogskol lock. I lost to T3 Tron 2 games in a row which I can't really stop since I took the spyglasses out of the side. Whir is just unwinnable, game 3 almost got him with mimic, seer taking bridge but he topdecked another. Kiki oombo just rushed me game 1 I didn't have enough removal and game 2 I misread a card and died because of it. I can't personally vouch for Leyline because I haven't got any to play with but I can say Relic is integral to beating the fair control and midrange decks imo. Im currently doing a 3/3 split of Relic and Ravenous Trap but I haven't played against dredge yet to know if it's even worth it. I know relic certainly isn't enough for dredge but Idk if it's worth fighting over. I dont think you need graveyard hate beyond relic against anything besides Bridgvine and Dredge which I'm tempted to just ignore. I might put the deck down for awhile tho, my shop is starting to get some whir decks popping up and that matchup is just not fun.
@ChaoticTyrant
I am in fact the lunatic who ran around the room the morning of the Classic looking for Oblivion Sowers to play in my Modern Eldrazi Aggro Deck
I can agree that I lose a lot of my play by not having Relics for the grindy matchups. I'm trying to attack them from a different angle with a "go bigger" strategy.
My only 2 losses of the Classic were to both 1st and 2nd place on UW Control and Jeskai Control.
But I can also argue that without Leyline of the Void helping me crush Hollow One, Dredge, and Grixis Shadow I probably would not have been in top 8. Leyline of the Void constantly overperforms and I always find it in my opening hand thanks to Serum Powder.
The last IQ I did in fact play 2 Oblivion Sower and 2 Ulamogue, Ceaseless Hunger in my sideboard for UW Control, Jeskai, and Bridge Prison. I garuntee 100% of players wouldn't agree with this, but it's what I'm testing and as of right now it's working.
With KCI gone perhaps I should be playing Relic instead of Leyline but I'd rather have some fun and play rediculous 10 mana spells in my Sideboard to fight the control decks. And as I've said Leyline is a powerhouse against Grixis Shadow, Hollow One, Dredge, Pheonix, and Crucible Prison. I also can still beat the grindy decks, its just a bit tougher without Relics. I recommend testing Leylines if you haven't.
I test everything though, after I'm done testing Oblivion Sowers we will be testing Culling Scales to fight Prison.
Leyline of the Void would also probably make the hardened scales matchup winnable, because otherwise unless I cheese them with a chalice on first turn on the play its a dreadful matchup. Leyline would turn off ravager and walker which are their best cards. I'll definitely try to get my hand on some. Are the sowers and Ulamog really helping you against control? I figured with caverns those matchups wouldn't be an issue. That's why I was tempted to put caverns in the deck because I don't know how many times my opponent would've been dead turn 4 or 5 without countermagic. But I've used the funds for other decks. The only thing tho is outside of dredge, I don't have any issues against those other decks leyline is for. Im curious what you consider the worst matchups to be?
I have issues with control (without caverns), amulet titan, scapeshift (I haven't lost to it tho in the last 5 times I've played against it), Dredge (I assume haven't played it), hardened scales, Tron (I go on streaks back and forth), Whir/Lantern, and I'm not sure about the spirits/humans matchup, i feel like its a blowout either way each time I play against them. Sometimes I kill everything on sight and other times I get run over. Also for me Grixis Shadow always counters/blows up chalice and proceeds to murder me. Traverse is easy tho.
Also to anyone who hasn't tried it, torpor orb is a house. I removed ratchet bomb because it was underperforming for me. The bridge decks anymore will shut it down immediately and it's been too slow for me against humans and spirits. Torpor orb not only makes humans and spirits bad, but it also stops the new pod deck, elves, and amulet titan if they can't remove it. It's done much better for me in testing than ratchet bomb had. Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't torpor orb also stop amalgam triggers?
@ChaoticTyrant
I've been having trouble against control even with Caverns. The Caverns help a lot, but I can't say the matchup is spectacular either. Maybe my opponents are just getting lucky in both events and in testing, but my record against both UW Control and Jeskai Control are not positive. That being said, a typical control player that I play against at my local game store or at an IQ... I crush. But in the late rounds of bigger events the very good control players seem to always navigate their way to victory against me. The Oblivion Sowers and Ulamogues are STRICTLY for UW Control, Jeskai Control, and Bridge/Whir.
It doesn't cost me to play these cards in my 75. And Oblivion Sower being able to exile everything Jace has brainstormed on top upon cast has been great. When the game goes long in any of these 3 matchups these cards will give you a stellar chance of winning the grind. The cast triggers are extremely powerful.
If you feel comfortable playing against UW, Jeskai, and Bridge/Whir I wouldn't worry about implementing this strategy as I don't think it will be good in any other matchups.
To answer your question. I believe the worst matchup for Colorless Eldrzi is Humans.
If someone pilots the deck correctly it can be a nightmare. They can go wide, go faster, fly over us, image our guys, grow bigger that our guys, grind with Buglar, bounce our guys, the matchup is horrible. It was the only matchup I tested against before the Classic and I tried everything from All is Dust, Ratchet Bomb, Culling Scales, Spatial Contortion, Batterskull. Maindeck my win percentage was about 33%.
My sideboard is loaded to fight this matchup with 2 Torper Orb and 4 Spatial Contortion. As these are the cards that shined in testing. There are draws that we can have that matchup good against theres, but after testing many many games it is not a favorable matchup at all in my opinion.
That being said, I think Spirits is an even and very winnable matchup, we can race them much easier. Being more aggressive then them will usually win you these games.
I may have to give them a try then and see how things change, or just try to get some caverns and see what that does for me. That's actually interesting because I've lost way more times to spirits than I have humans even though humans seems to be better against us. Maybe I'm just getting unlucky with drogskoll locks and good CoCo's. How do you feel about the tron matchup or the Grixis Shadow matchup, any advice? I always seem to lose both of those but maybe I just need to go back to spyglasses and hope that's enough for tron.
I may have to give them a try then and see how things change, or just try to get some caverns and see what that does for me. That's actually interesting because I've lost way more times to spirits than I have humans even though humans seems to be better against us. Maybe I'm just getting unlucky with drogskoll locks and good CoCo's. How do you feel about the tron matchup or the Grixis Shadow matchup, any advice? I always seem to lose both of those but maybe I just need to go back to spyglasses and hope that's enough for tron.
My experience mirrors Austin's for these matchups and I would say mulligan more deliberately into highly aggressive hands. One or two kill spells will end them if you can come up with some pressure, and when the whole deck is removal and creatures, you shouldn't have too hard a time.
As for Humans, I find it really depends on what they end up opening and drawing. Reflector is amazing, for instance; Kitesail and Thalia, meh. So I think this MU is pretty swingy and depends less on the skill of the opponent (assuming you are okay at combat math).
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
It's occasionally decent when it's unexpected, but on the long run, I'd rather have a 100% reliable creature threat, especially one that I can use my temples to cast.
Several times I happened to draw it in close games with a clean board state and nothing to copy...
Several times the fact that's its not an eldrazi would not allow me to cast it advantageously.
To sum it up, it's not terrible, but it can be a dead card, and it's rarely decisive.
I will be removing it from my list for my next event, probably switching it for an Endless One or a Warping Wail.
Modern
C Colorless Eldrazi Stompy C
WUGC Bant Eldrazi CGUW
WBG Doran Formation GBW
Legacy
C Eldrazi Stompy C
Multiplayer Commander
GR Omnath, Locus of Rage RG
WU Brago, King Eternal UW
BG Slimefoot, the Stowaway GB
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/126816
If anyone has any questions about choices I've made in deckbuilding, or how certain matchups went in the Open, Classic, or local events feel free to ask.
Okay so through various testing before the team event I concluded that Humans is not a great matchup. You can beat humans pretty switfly if they draw the wrong part of their deck and you draw the right part of your deck. But my win percentage was still very low against that matchup. Suprisingly the matchup against spirits is about 50/50 you can race them with aggressive draws. But Humans can go wide, and fly above with Mantis Riders. Cards such as Reflector Mage, Mantis Rider, Thalia's Lieutenant, and worst of all Phantasmal Image make this matchup very difficult if your opponent knows what they are doing. Considering my Eldrazi deck has a good matchup or even matchup against majority of the Modern field I wanted to devote some slots to Humans specifically. Torpor Orb is great against them, yes it shuts down Mimic and Thought Knot, but it allows you to play a fair game of magic where the bigger creatures will win, and Eldrazi are bigger. So Humans is the only reason it's in my board. I bring in the 2 Endbringer and 4 Spatial Contortion as well. I still don't think the matchup is great even after all of those changes and I'm going to keep working on different strategies to beat it consistently as long as Humans remains popular. Also to note, Torpor Orb was sided in against Kiki Combo in that tournament and it's very good against the random 4 color Saheeli decks that come up on occasion, so the card did find utility elsewhere. I will likely keep it in my board.
The Immortal Sun. I didn't have this in my sideboard for the team event. In fact it was something I threw into my sideboard 10 minutes before the event started, and to be honest I wasn't serious about playing it. I did side it in against Jeskai and UW, but never drew it. If it resolves I assume it will be good, but Cryptic Command and Logic Knot make me less excited about the card. I would have liked to test it more before the Classic but its test trial ended up being the Classic... I plan to test with it further but I assume a better answer to beating these control decks does exist, I can't say I recommend it. I expect to remove it from my board soon.
Your decklist, and by extension approach to this deck's philosophy seem to differ from the approach Jordan Boisvert is advocating. Most notably, you are swapping relics from leylines, but also missing some key interaction cards from your sideboard, ratchet bomb and gut shot being the most important. You are running some powerful hate cards in their place - I recall seeing damping sphere, torpor orb and thorn of amethyst in your 75 over the past few months. Would you care to comment on these choices - I am very interested in your opinion on r. bomb, as I see that card being the most important sideboard card and I would never register CES list without 3 copies in the SB.
I would also appreciate your comment on the Endbringer. I do not understand the role of that card in the 75, and I am very intrigued by your most recent list featuring 3 copies of that card. The card is very powerful and untapping with it often means winning the game versus large percentage of the field, but do you really need it? It feels like the card you would bring in when you need your deck to have more 'gas', more impactful cards and better topdecks, but from my experience the deck almost never needs to go that route after sideboarding - against jund, junk, mardu etc I am siding in my 4 relics, 3 contortions and 3 ratchet bombs and taking out 4 chalices and 4 guides, and that sideboard plan makes perfect sense and yields excelent results - I really dont think any additional wincons are needed for that MU. I could see 1 endbringer being run MD in a more midrange- and aggro-oriented metagame, but the additional copies in the sb really confuse me.
I would also appreciate any comment on some one-off cards you have registered previously in your decklists - Batterskull, Karn,Scion of Urza, The Immortal Sun, etc.
Cheers!
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
I'd like to start by clarifying that I love Ratchet Bomb and think it's completely acceptable in the sideboard. I've recently steered away from it. The matchups it has been good in are already very beatable, Affinity, Elves, Spirits, Mardu tokens, etc. (I can't include Humans as this Matchup is bad with or without Ratchet Bomb).
I would never completely side-out Chalice against any of these matchups (Except Humans/Spirits) I have found that playing 4 copies of Spatial Contortion and some number of Chalice has allowed me to maintain my aggressive gameplan while removing the threats that matter. I don't want to stack up on to many non-creature spells especially slow ones.
One could argue Ratchet Bomb is our way of beating Ensnaring Bridge in the 75, But those decks usually run several needle effects anyways.
I could see playing Ratchet Bomb again in future tournaments but when playing the card I feel like I'm aiming for a more grindy gameplan despite the deck being aggresive and ratchet bomb isn't the card I want to utilize for that in this current meta. Although it's still a great card and it may find its way back into my 75 soon.
The 2nd thing I'd like to clarify is that I DO NOT like Relic of Progenitus. I don't see myself registering any copies in my 75 in this meta.
The reason this deck has been so powerful for me in this meta is thanks to Chalice of the Void and Serum Powder.
We want to Chalice on 1 against most decks in the format. Chalice on 0 can also be terrifying for some decks as well. I don't want any 1 mana cost cards in my 75. I am a Chalice of the Void deck and I don't want anything to be countered by my own Chalice.
I understand Relic has synergy with Scourge and it can even draw us a card. But Leyline of the Void is the best existing graveyard hate and demolishes Dredge, Phoenix, Grixis Shadow, Crucible Prison Decks, Mardu Tokens, etc.
I have tried to fill my sideboard with the most powerful cards I can play to completely dismantle other strategies. When I Serum Powder games 2 and 3 I am searching for these powerful sideboard cards rather than just Temples. Serum Powder being able to find ample removal spells for creature decks, Chalice for the decks that can't beat it, and Leyline as the best offence against Graveyard strategies is the reason this deck is so good.
I will always be playing 3-4 copies of Leyline of the Void over Relic unless something drastic changes in this current meta.
As for Endbringer... I was disappointed overall with its performance. I do think this deck wants a "go bigger" strategy for strictly UW Control, Jeskai, and Crucible Prison. I think the Jund/Abzan matchup is fine but you could use such a strategy against them as well. I thought Endbringer might be the card but after the Classic I can say I was wrong. I will be removing it from my 75.
As for this go bigger strategy my next plan (call me crazy) is to try Oblivion Sowers x3 and Ulamogue Ceaseless Hungers x2 in the sideboard. I'm not saying this is correct but after everything I have collected it's something I think is worth trying. Again... I will just be testing this.
Immortal Sun was a joke card shoved into my deck last minute that I never drew. I don't recommend it and can't clarify if it's good, probably not great thanks to Logic Knot and Cryptic Command.
I have never played Thorn of Amethyst in my 75 but I think it's interesting, but likely not good enough.
Lastly Baby Karn and Batterskull. I played Batterskull as a way to get over decks trying to go wide or bigger than us, its also fine in grindy games. I no longer play it in my 75 despite it performing well.
Karn was for UW Control when it was more popular than Jeskai. They don't have many clean answers to removing it once its in play and it digs very deep and helps find Dismembers which are important for the Angel's in Games 2 and 3. I still think this card is great, depending on what I expect to see at upcoming tournaments I could find it in my 75 again, it performs well. But maybe just play 1 rather than 2.
I hope this covers all of your questions.
Cheers!
Just my $.02. I've played this deck off and on since late 2016, and to me Zhalfirin Void seems like an irreplaceable component of the deck.
I think Zhalfirin Void is great. I played 3 Void over 3 Cavern of Souls at the Open.
After losing to Seth Manfield and Brad Nelson on Jeskai Control largely in part to counterspells I decided to make the switch. I do believe that this deck has a lot of play against Jeskai and UW without the Caverns, but against the very good control players I fealt Cavern was acceptable. Also there's the random upside of casting Spirit Guides and sneaking through random Ceremonious Rejection with Cavern.
I also fealt Void never did enough, it is great, but this deck plays well enough off the top that I never fealt the Scry 1 being to necessary. That being said I think there's an argument for Zhalfirin Void and plan to test it more before my next event.
Unfortunately due to work I won't be going to any big events until Regionals.
If you are looking for a list I'm very confident in what I top 8'd the Classic with minus 3 Endbringer and an Immortal Sun (These cards disappointed me that weekend).
Up until Regionals though I will be testing many different things out for the Sideboard. If I make any groundbreaking discoveries I will post them here, but sadly I don't have my new set list of 75 done yet.
I think most Serum Eldrazi lists are just fine for this meta in general as long as the Humans deck keeps dropping in popularity.
What cards are you taking out vs pheonix? I feel like almost all of my cards are strong or needed in some way in the match and I dont know what to cut. Currently I am trimming smashers to play hate cards
Also, how do you feel about scavenger grounds? It has felt too slow for graveyard hate for me, and I'm not keen on stone raining myself in a grindy match, where I'm most likely going to see some amount of land destruction. Thinking of going back to sea gate wreckage as a grindy element.
I played in an IQ yesterday. I played against Pheonix twice throughout the event. I was testing 1 Oblivion Sower in my flex spot.
That being said I sided like this on the play:
-1 Oblivion Sower
-2 Simian Spirit Guide
-1 Gemstone Caverns
+ 4 Leyline of the Void
If I was on the draw I sided like this:
-1 Oblivion Sower
-2 Simian Spirit Guide
-1 Eternal Scourge
+4 Leyline of the Void
I sided out 1 Eternal Scourge because it's the worst Eldrazi when fighting the Pheonix deck. Despite Chalice countering one mana removal they can still target the Scourge and exile it. Scourge also can't swing through Cackling Drake or Thing in Ice.
Oblivion Sower is too much mana and I don't want it exiling their spells to feed their Cackling Drakes.
In this matchup look for your Dismembers with Serum Powder. Chalice is great but they can still win with Thing in Ice. Dismember can also kill the Drake. Disrupt them and then be as aggressive as possible.
As for Scavenger Grounds I never really find myself using it to hate on graveyards but the option to is never bad. It usually exiles my Eternal Scourges when the game REALLY grinds. It can snipe a Tarmogoyf or a Snapcaster Mage on occasion, but usually it shines in the grindy games. Obviously I won't stone rain myself if the situation isn't ideal or it will keep me off 5 mana. But usually the game grinds when the Eldrazi deck floods, so I haven't had stone-raining myself be an issue. I never was a big fan of SeaGate Wreckage in testing, but that's just my personal experience. I'm sure 1 SeaGate Wreckage wouldn't be a bad addition, but for now I plan to stick with my 2 Scavenger Grounds.
I hope this helps.
We came to conclusion that you don't want to be too controlling and should limit yourself to bringing in just your graveyard hate, be it relic of progenitus or leyline of the void. Bringing in ratchet bomb as additional removal for thing in the ice is apparently too specific, although with pteramander showing up in more recent lists bomb has more targets and one copy could be sided in.
Regarding the cards you should cut, we identified the 3-power eldrazi as the weakest cards in our deck. If you have 23 lands going to 22 on the draw seems ok. I would never cut SSG, especially not on the draw. Turn 1 chalice turns a great percentage of their opening hands into unplayable, so I would never reduce my chances on making that play.
Regarding the decision which 3-power eldrazi should be cut, Matter Reshaper or Eternal Scourge, I have landed on 3 reshaper and 1 scourge split. Scourge may be turning on their otherwise dead bolts into unsummons with chalice on 1, but it still has the synergy with powder and is a horror, meaning that it is not being bounced by Awoken Horror, which can be crucial in racing situations. I would also consider cutting 3 3-drops and 1 Reality Smasher for curve considerations.
Also playing Chalice a turn later is still just as good against them. But most of the time I don't expect Chalice of the Void to stay on board game 2 and I'd rather rely on graveyard hate, removal, and aggressive draws to win game 2.
L Spirits 0-2
W Jund 2-1
L Tron 1-2
W Jeskai 2-1
L Grixis Whir 1-2
W Jund 2-1
L Kiki Combo (possibly pod) 0-2
I was salty at first because I didn't get to play any of the most popular decks but I felt good about how I did because I won every winnable matchup. Spirits got me because no removal game one and game two double drogskol lock. I lost to T3 Tron 2 games in a row which I can't really stop since I took the spyglasses out of the side. Whir is just unwinnable, game 3 almost got him with mimic, seer taking bridge but he topdecked another. Kiki oombo just rushed me game 1 I didn't have enough removal and game 2 I misread a card and died because of it. I can't personally vouch for Leyline because I haven't got any to play with but I can say Relic is integral to beating the fair control and midrange decks imo. Im currently doing a 3/3 split of Relic and Ravenous Trap but I haven't played against dredge yet to know if it's even worth it. I know relic certainly isn't enough for dredge but Idk if it's worth fighting over. I dont think you need graveyard hate beyond relic against anything besides Bridgvine and Dredge which I'm tempted to just ignore. I might put the deck down for awhile tho, my shop is starting to get some whir decks popping up and that matchup is just not fun.
I am in fact the lunatic who ran around the room the morning of the Classic looking for Oblivion Sowers to play in my Modern Eldrazi Aggro Deck
I can agree that I lose a lot of my play by not having Relics for the grindy matchups. I'm trying to attack them from a different angle with a "go bigger" strategy.
My only 2 losses of the Classic were to both 1st and 2nd place on UW Control and Jeskai Control.
But I can also argue that without Leyline of the Void helping me crush Hollow One, Dredge, and Grixis Shadow I probably would not have been in top 8. Leyline of the Void constantly overperforms and I always find it in my opening hand thanks to Serum Powder.
The last IQ I did in fact play 2 Oblivion Sower and 2 Ulamogue, Ceaseless Hunger in my sideboard for UW Control, Jeskai, and Bridge Prison. I garuntee 100% of players wouldn't agree with this, but it's what I'm testing and as of right now it's working.
With KCI gone perhaps I should be playing Relic instead of Leyline but I'd rather have some fun and play rediculous 10 mana spells in my Sideboard to fight the control decks. And as I've said Leyline is a powerhouse against Grixis Shadow, Hollow One, Dredge, Pheonix, and Crucible Prison. I also can still beat the grindy decks, its just a bit tougher without Relics. I recommend testing Leylines if you haven't.
I test everything though, after I'm done testing Oblivion Sowers we will be testing Culling Scales to fight Prison.
Long live Eldrazi.
I have issues with control (without caverns), amulet titan, scapeshift (I haven't lost to it tho in the last 5 times I've played against it), Dredge (I assume haven't played it), hardened scales, Tron (I go on streaks back and forth), Whir/Lantern, and I'm not sure about the spirits/humans matchup, i feel like its a blowout either way each time I play against them. Sometimes I kill everything on sight and other times I get run over. Also for me Grixis Shadow always counters/blows up chalice and proceeds to murder me. Traverse is easy tho.
Also to anyone who hasn't tried it, torpor orb is a house. I removed ratchet bomb because it was underperforming for me. The bridge decks anymore will shut it down immediately and it's been too slow for me against humans and spirits. Torpor orb not only makes humans and spirits bad, but it also stops the new pod deck, elves, and amulet titan if they can't remove it. It's done much better for me in testing than ratchet bomb had. Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't torpor orb also stop amalgam triggers?
I've been having trouble against control even with Caverns. The Caverns help a lot, but I can't say the matchup is spectacular either. Maybe my opponents are just getting lucky in both events and in testing, but my record against both UW Control and Jeskai Control are not positive. That being said, a typical control player that I play against at my local game store or at an IQ... I crush. But in the late rounds of bigger events the very good control players seem to always navigate their way to victory against me. The Oblivion Sowers and Ulamogues are STRICTLY for UW Control, Jeskai Control, and Bridge/Whir.
It doesn't cost me to play these cards in my 75. And Oblivion Sower being able to exile everything Jace has brainstormed on top upon cast has been great. When the game goes long in any of these 3 matchups these cards will give you a stellar chance of winning the grind. The cast triggers are extremely powerful.
If you feel comfortable playing against UW, Jeskai, and Bridge/Whir I wouldn't worry about implementing this strategy as I don't think it will be good in any other matchups.
To answer your question. I believe the worst matchup for Colorless Eldrzi is Humans.
If someone pilots the deck correctly it can be a nightmare. They can go wide, go faster, fly over us, image our guys, grow bigger that our guys, grind with Buglar, bounce our guys, the matchup is horrible. It was the only matchup I tested against before the Classic and I tried everything from All is Dust, Ratchet Bomb, Culling Scales, Spatial Contortion, Batterskull. Maindeck my win percentage was about 33%.
My sideboard is loaded to fight this matchup with 2 Torper Orb and 4 Spatial Contortion. As these are the cards that shined in testing. There are draws that we can have that matchup good against theres, but after testing many many games it is not a favorable matchup at all in my opinion.
That being said, I think Spirits is an even and very winnable matchup, we can race them much easier. Being more aggressive then them will usually win you these games.
As for Humans, I find it really depends on what they end up opening and drawing. Reflector is amazing, for instance; Kitesail and Thalia, meh. So I think this MU is pretty swingy and depends less on the skill of the opponent (assuming you are okay at combat math).
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy