Modern:UBRDeath's ShadowUBR, CEldrazi StompyC,WUBRGSliversWUBRG, UBRGTraverse ShadowUBRG,RUGtempo pileRUG Pauper:UdelverU they slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..
Hey all, been reading and studying for a while now, first time posting though. I found this deck through SaffronOlives free win red, and after doing a TON of research and play testing I’ve found that for me, this is the optimum build of the red prison deck. I plan on taking Pyro Prison to my first GP in September, and am slowly buying into it as the cards are really cheap now. I plan on building something similar to Rays newest take with the magus’ and revoker and hazoret in the main, I just want to know your thoughts on if this is the most competitive version. I’m 19 and in my short magic career this has been the most fun I’ve had with any deck in any format, thanks all!
Round 1 (Blue White Control)
Game 1: both of us sat around doing nothing he resolves a jace I resolve chandra. I use chandra to kill jace eventually hit the koth and kill him.
Game 2: he sides in more counter magic negates a turn 2 chandra and paths hazoret on 3 and I concede do to no cards in hand to a full grip.
Game 3: land a turn 2 eidolon into a turn 3 rabblemaster. He doesn't hit his 4th land on 4 and game ends.
Sb plan -4 bride, -1 magus -1 abrade, +3 eidolon, +1 hazoret +2 cages
(1-0)
Round 2 (Burn)
Game 1: landed a bridge, moon and chalice on 1 died to him drawing red spells.
Game 2: mulled to 5. landed a early eidolon and rabblemaster raced him to the kill just as planned.
Game 3: had a turn 1 eidolon, opponent played 1 aswell cast a balsa as a 2/2 followed by chalice for 2 not taking damage. Race was close he got me to 3 before he died.
Sb -4 bridge -1 koth +3 eidolon +1 hazoret +1 spellskite
(2-0)
Round 3 (humans)
Game 1: landed a turn 1 chalice for 1 into a blood moon on 2. Opponent was locked out fast.
Game 2: opponent played his own chalice for 1 on turn 2. Had a turn 2 chandra. Killed his noble. Turn 3 blood moon plus anger for a lock.
Sb -4 rabblemaster -1 chandra +2 anger +2 spyglass +1 spellskite
(3-0)
Round 4 (grixis shadow)
Game 1: landed a turn 2 moon into non-basic world of shadow
Game 2: chalice for 1 on turn 1 no more shadows or interaction.
Sb -4 bridge -2 abrade, +3 eidolon, +1 hazoret, +2 spyglass (name fetches or streetwraith)
(4-0)
Round 5 (scapeshift)
Game 1: opponent tried to pact for titan didn't get a 2nd basic forest played a blood moon on my turn he died to pact.
Game 2: had turn 1 koth into turn 2 hazoret. Opponent eventually stabilized by blocking with elders to land 2 titans into a blood moon. Killed him with koth emblem.
Sb -4 bridge -1 pia and kirin, -1 abrade, +3 eidolon, +1 hazoret, +2 spyglass (chandra)
(5-0)
Round 6 (Affinity)
Got a game loss for deck reg error on snow covered mountains.
Game 1: we win chalice on 0-2 by turn 3.
Game 2: he kills me with inkmoth never saw a moon or bridge or abrade.
Sb -4 rabblemaster -1 chandra, -1 pia and kirin, +2 shattering spree, +2 anger, +2 spyglass. I feel like you should sb to try and race them idk haven't tested it yet.
(5-1)
Round 7 (Jund)
Game 1: Mulled to 5. Opponent had turn 2 goyf, turn 3 lili, turn 4 double goyf. We didn't find a bridge.
Game 2: mulled down again (became fairly tilted) lost to 4 bloodbraids in a row. Would have won if last one didn't hit a pulse.
Sb -4 rabblemaster, -1 pia and kirin, -1 chalice, +2 anger, +2 spyglass +2 cage. Not sure if this is a good sb plan either.
(5-2)
Round 8 (Tribal Zoo)
Game 1: opponent had a nut draw killed me on 3 with his landfall creatures.
Game 2: landed turn 1 blood moon, turn 2 chalice for 1, durtled till finding koth for a kill.
Game 3: landed early chalice for 1, played a spyglass naming a fetchland nailed 2 of his from his hand. Landed a bridge killed with chandra.
Sb -4 rabblemaster, -1 pia and kirin, +2 anger, +2 spyglass +1 skite
(6-2)
Hey all, been reading and studying for a while now, first time posting though. I found this deck through SaffronOlives free win red, and after doing a TON of research and play testing I’ve found that for me, this is the optimum build of the red prison deck. I plan on taking Pyro Prison to my first GP in September, and am slowly buying into it as the cards are really cheap now. I plan on building something similar to Rays newest take with the magus’ and revoker and hazoret in the main, I just want to know your thoughts on if this is the most competitive version. I’m 19 and in my short magic career this has been the most fun I’ve had with any deck in any format, thanks all!
We are always swapping things in and out, and also trying new ideas to try to improve the deck further. The stock lists at the beginning of the primer are mostly what you should aim for to get your core built. Then it's up to what feels right to you and fits your meta. Which shell is the most competitive version is kind of a loaded question as it really depends on the meta that you expect. One of our strengths is that our core kind of handles everything since we are a sb deck but to really up your win %, it's a meta call. Safe bet in a big event like a GP would be to skim over the most recent deck posts, as they are tuned to handle the current meta specifically. (And yes, you won't go wrong with Ray's current variation either)
So focus on the core build, win/lose some games, begin tuning. Knowing how to properly pilot this monster is actually a lot more important than specific builds, so don't focus too much on which might be best. The more advanced pilots here will tell you the same, as their tweaks are attempts at min/maxing win %s, but they never really heavily change the deck.
Glad you're enjoying the deck! It has a very high learning curve so if you stick with it, this thing can really push your skills higher as a magic player.
Don't play snow covered mountains. They tell your opponent to watch for blood moon. Regular mountain could be burn or scapshift or something else, but the snow lands tell your opponent to fetch for basics immediately.
Debatable, Our team did some extensive testing with the deck and found that the % of relevancy of them knowing from first turn or second turn was not huge, however players who see the snowcovered land almost always just assumed we were playing skred game 1 and sideboard differently giving you % points in game 2/3 wins
Curious....how would people sideboard against skred red differently than vs our deck? Legit asking because they are so similar that I would imagine the sideboard strategy would be extremely similar.
I would imagine they would take out a lot of removal thinking you're skred red. In which case you would do well to bring in a lot of aggression for game two. BUT, I think the decision of bringing in aggression over control from sb should be based on the match up. Not quite so much based on the land info you've given your opponent from game one (Not to say that's not very relevant either). Because even if they ditch a lot of removal and your aggression would stick around easier, they could very well just be a deck with a stronger board presence (aggro/midrange). So even if a Rabblemaster gets to remain alive due to fewer answers on opponent's end for game two, if there are things like goyfs around, you're not swinging anyway.
Snow covered puts you on skred, setting up opponents to think to sb a specific way. The question is, how beneficial is that? It does bring some form of consistency as far the way opponents sb for game 2, but idk if we can really take advantage of the idea that we are more control centered.
Mountain is pretty wide open as far as what you could be. We are more likely to be put under the category of some kind of aggressive deck.
One question we can maybe ask is, should I play a snow mountain turn 1 which tells opponent I'm a control deck (Good! We might have a better game 2 because they are misinformed), but also show that we have a blood moon coming (Bad! Not gonna fetch non-basics now). This might equate to a weaker game 1 and a possible stronger game two if putting us on skred is beneficial that match. Mountain doesn't say anything regarding blood moon which is good game 1.
Skred has a very different game plan than we do. They are more of midrange deck or later game deck than we are so people tend to keep slower hands against us thinking we are skred. Also skred has a different type of game plan sometimes the opponent doesn't see our artifact sweep cause we rabble them game 1 so they don't get the artifact destruction from the board. When they think we are skred it normally pushes them away from artifact removal.
Thank you rtdeely, another question I have is, is there something I can put in the deck to replace chalice. It being a third of the deck cost is very deinsentivising and I was wondering if there was something else worthy of the slot until I actually get them, or if I should just bite the bullet and buy them
Unfortunately it's also a third of the lock suite for the deck (Moon, Bridge, and Chalice). So that's ultimately what you've got to aim for if you want to pilot Pyro Prison to it's fullest right now. But that's not to say it's not a functioning deck without them. Until then though, you could opt to bring in some aggression from your sb to mb such as Eidolon of the Great Revel. As far as mana curve, chalice is typically played on 0, 2, and 4 cmc for 0-2 charges. So I'd look at 2 and 4 drops for replacements while you save up for 4x Chalice. Against something like Tron, which is the most popular control deck right now, you'll actually be more favored to win game 1 than the core pyro build would be as chalice is pretty weak there and you want to win asap before they just go over the top and not care what you have in play.
If you'd like to retain some of your control for the lack of chalice, instead you could run things like Sorcerous Spyglass, Spellskite, or maybe Molten Rain. Despite being an exlusive sb card, it's pretty tough for spyglass to actually be a dead card in mb. Naming a fetch is pretty underrated but amazing.
Hey Russ! Big fan of your work.A few months ago I built your mono red/pyro prison deck as my first entry into modern. It has been a roller coaster of a time as I learn the decks out there and how to play the deck. Recently I have splashed a bit of white into my deck as an experiment and to gain access to a few more sideboard answers via white. It has been a rewarding experience and I always trying new things with it. Here is my current deck list.
Just like in life, when you move into white, you make the deck better in some areas and worse in others. White offers more control/lock elements while cutting back on aggression. This means you'll do better vs burn, merfolk, and other aggressive strategies, but be weaker to decks like control (all flavors), Tron, and combo. Lock pieces without pressure it a great way to lose to combo. So, depending on your meta, that could be good, just realized you are making some matches worse whole.making others better, and most importantly, the reasons for that.
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I've come up with a list more like this:
3 Gemstone Caverns
19 Mountain
Artifacts (6)
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Mind Stone
Enchantments (4)
4 Blood Moon
Instants (8)
4 Abrade
4 Desperate Ritual
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Koth of the Hammer
Creatures (16)
2 Glorybringer
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Boil
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Harsh Mentor
2 Shattering Spree
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Torpor Orb
Thoughts?
Pauper: UdelverUthey slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..Turn 6 Karn > Turn 2 Phage
Round 1 (Blue White Control)
Game 1: both of us sat around doing nothing he resolves a jace I resolve chandra. I use chandra to kill jace eventually hit the koth and kill him.
Game 2: he sides in more counter magic negates a turn 2 chandra and paths hazoret on 3 and I concede do to no cards in hand to a full grip.
Game 3: land a turn 2 eidolon into a turn 3 rabblemaster. He doesn't hit his 4th land on 4 and game ends.
Sb plan -4 bride, -1 magus -1 abrade, +3 eidolon, +1 hazoret +2 cages
(1-0)
Round 2 (Burn)
Game 1: landed a bridge, moon and chalice on 1 died to him drawing red spells.
Game 2: mulled to 5. landed a early eidolon and rabblemaster raced him to the kill just as planned.
Game 3: had a turn 1 eidolon, opponent played 1 aswell cast a balsa as a 2/2 followed by chalice for 2 not taking damage. Race was close he got me to 3 before he died.
Sb -4 bridge -1 koth +3 eidolon +1 hazoret +1 spellskite
(2-0)
Round 3 (humans)
Game 1: landed a turn 1 chalice for 1 into a blood moon on 2. Opponent was locked out fast.
Game 2: opponent played his own chalice for 1 on turn 2. Had a turn 2 chandra. Killed his noble. Turn 3 blood moon plus anger for a lock.
Sb -4 rabblemaster -1 chandra +2 anger +2 spyglass +1 spellskite
(3-0)
Round 4 (grixis shadow)
Game 1: landed a turn 2 moon into non-basic world of shadow
Game 2: chalice for 1 on turn 1 no more shadows or interaction.
Sb -4 bridge -2 abrade, +3 eidolon, +1 hazoret, +2 spyglass (name fetches or streetwraith)
(4-0)
Round 5 (scapeshift)
Game 1: opponent tried to pact for titan didn't get a 2nd basic forest played a blood moon on my turn he died to pact.
Game 2: had turn 1 koth into turn 2 hazoret. Opponent eventually stabilized by blocking with elders to land 2 titans into a blood moon. Killed him with koth emblem.
Sb -4 bridge -1 pia and kirin, -1 abrade, +3 eidolon, +1 hazoret, +2 spyglass (chandra)
(5-0)
Round 6 (Affinity)
Got a game loss for deck reg error on snow covered mountains.
Game 1: we win chalice on 0-2 by turn 3.
Game 2: he kills me with inkmoth never saw a moon or bridge or abrade.
Sb -4 rabblemaster -1 chandra, -1 pia and kirin, +2 shattering spree, +2 anger, +2 spyglass. I feel like you should sb to try and race them idk haven't tested it yet.
(5-1)
Round 7 (Jund)
Game 1: Mulled to 5. Opponent had turn 2 goyf, turn 3 lili, turn 4 double goyf. We didn't find a bridge.
Game 2: mulled down again (became fairly tilted) lost to 4 bloodbraids in a row. Would have won if last one didn't hit a pulse.
Sb -4 rabblemaster, -1 pia and kirin, -1 chalice, +2 anger, +2 spyglass +2 cage. Not sure if this is a good sb plan either.
(5-2)
Round 8 (Tribal Zoo)
Game 1: opponent had a nut draw killed me on 3 with his landfall creatures.
Game 2: landed turn 1 blood moon, turn 2 chalice for 1, durtled till finding koth for a kill.
Game 3: landed early chalice for 1, played a spyglass naming a fetchland nailed 2 of his from his hand. Landed a bridge killed with chandra.
Sb -4 rabblemaster, -1 pia and kirin, +2 anger, +2 spyglass +1 skite
(6-2)
Will do day 2 on a later post.
So focus on the core build, win/lose some games, begin tuning. Knowing how to properly pilot this monster is actually a lot more important than specific builds, so don't focus too much on which might be best. The more advanced pilots here will tell you the same, as their tweaks are attempts at min/maxing win %s, but they never really heavily change the deck.
Glad you're enjoying the deck! It has a very high learning curve so if you stick with it, this thing can really push your skills higher as a magic player.
Just curious.
Snow covered puts you on skred, setting up opponents to think to sb a specific way. The question is, how beneficial is that? It does bring some form of consistency as far the way opponents sb for game 2, but idk if we can really take advantage of the idea that we are more control centered.
Mountain is pretty wide open as far as what you could be. We are more likely to be put under the category of some kind of aggressive deck.
One question we can maybe ask is, should I play a snow mountain turn 1 which tells opponent I'm a control deck (Good! We might have a better game 2 because they are misinformed), but also show that we have a blood moon coming (Bad! Not gonna fetch non-basics now). This might equate to a weaker game 1 and a possible stronger game two if putting us on skred is beneficial that match. Mountain doesn't say anything regarding blood moon which is good game 1.
If you'd like to retain some of your control for the lack of chalice, instead you could run things like Sorcerous Spyglass, Spellskite, or maybe Molten Rain. Despite being an exlusive sb card, it's pretty tough for spyglass to actually be a dead card in mb. Naming a fetch is pretty underrated but amazing.
1 Ajani Vengeant
4 Arid Mesa
1 Battlefield Forge
4 Blood Moon
1 Boros Charm
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Desperate Ritual
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Gemstone Caverns
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Koth of the Hammer
2 Lightning Helix
3 Mountain
1 Mutavault
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Nevermore
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
7 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Slagstorm
1 Stone Rain