Word Caligula. I'm going to go with the stock list and I have a fat word doc built with notes on sideboarding and where to be on the control/aggro spectrum in certain match-ups. You're right too, I was certainly thinking about all those damn enchantments and how my answers for that are limited. But I think the answers are in the strategy I employ. Def ready for the Classic, and I'll keep the Bomb in the back-pocket for FNM.
RATCHET BOMB
I've had it in'n'out of lists a whole lot. It's a swing card that fills the gap when my (74) is a little light on sweepers or removal. Principally, I like it against Death's Shadow and Burn creatures.
The side benefits are also Lantern Control, Bogles, Infect. Buuuut, we are already favored against these, so you gotta be careful in how we're allocating sideboard slots. There is a benefit to bringing it in against Affinity (but, not if it's replacing a shattering spree slot). And, also, I like it against Jund. Lately, Bomb is good against Mardu Tokens, buuuuut not really since it blows up our own chalice.
I'm finalizing my deck list for Sunday's SCG Worcester, MA Classic when DevtheRevRyan and Raystack sled into Worcester for a tag-team throwdown. Speaking of, you can certainly share your doc on your sideboard guide, regardless of how you based it on my lists. No problem, hombré.
SIDEBOARD SHENANIGANS
A little bit of Cray-Cray from the Ray-Ray: O.K. so there's been a good deal of talk about the land count for Pyro Prison. I'm very settled on (21) especially when I rock a couple tormenting voice. But, I've seen (22) as Dev is considering. Now, feel free to tell me that I'm crazy, but here's what I'm visualizing at The Classic on Sunday. In game 1, I feel like I should be favored: folks won't know what I'm on, and they're without sideboard answers like artifact kill cards. Alright, so I'm going to assume the win. This puts me on the Draw in game 2. What's the most important card to see in an opening hand in game 2 on the Draw?
You guessed it: Gemstone Caverns. What if I keep a 4th Gemstone Caverns in the sideboard? I'm a little better insulated against a mana drought and far more likely to land a critical Turn 1 Chalice of the Void or a Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon. And, if I'm facing Humans or related-swarm, I can speed into a sweeper or duck under a bridge that much sooner. Is this idea straight up clown shoes??
RayStack! Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to comfortably and confidently settle in on the 21 and no Bomb plan. I think the additional land in the sideboard is spicey, but what will you go down?
I'll be there on Saturday too, playing some challenges. I wonder if I should play a different deck to avoid the jig being up sooner than I'd like. I have burn and a weak Bogles build. I also have a mono black vampires I could run. Personally, I think I'd rather get the reps, but since I started playing against repeat opponents [in paper] I know that knowledge of what I'm playing, completely alters their approach.
If I pair up with someone on Saturday for sharts and giggles, then see them again sunday at the big dance, I'll be upset I gave away free info prior to the match.
I could switch the sleeves on my Dragon Shields to make people think that its a different deck from yesterday, maybe I'm overthinking it but either way I'd love to hear some thoughts.
Yeah so this is my sideboard doc with notes I've gleaned from the forum or watching people play Pyro, namely Russ.
I'm not going to beef the formatting that much, if you want that, I can email you the doc with bolded titles etc.
General Notes
Jedi-Mind Trick – Game 1 or just Turn 1 in general, make a fuss over what land to play to deceive opponents into thinking we're not mono colored.
Against anything with Lingering Souls – Keep Ballista in.
Bridge out? Haz in. Careful in midrange. If the midrange is too big for sweepers, then bridge might stay and removal package out.
Chalice on 1 shines in the following match-ups: Mardu Pyro, Infect, Boggles, Affinity [?], GDS, Tron [Big], Burn, Jund DS, Lantern.
I’m unsure of how to approach the Death N Taxes match-up.
Any type of big tron, go full-throttle. No bridges, slags or ballistas.
Affinity [control]
-4 Rabs, -1 Koth, -1 Magus
+2 Anger, +1 Skite, +2 Spree, +1 Ratchet Bomb
Keep in both Ballista. Don’t race… try to cut them off their gameplan. Chalice on 2 is way more lethal than Chalice on 0, but Chalice 1 is a must have. Chalice on 0 on the play is nice.
Death Shadow [control]
-2 Slag, -2 Abrade, -1 Mags, -2 Ballista
+1 Skite, +2 Boil, +1 Haz, +2 Eidolon, +1 Spy [lilly?], +1 Ratchet Bomb
Potentially keep in all Magus. Maybe skip the Spyglass or an Eidolon.
Maybe skip the Boil insertion. Add Ratchet Bomb
Spyglasses are for Lilly(s). Watch for those as well to refine sideboarding.
This is a control position match-up.
Dredge
-4 Rabs, -2 Chalices, -2 Maggies[?]
+2 Anger, +2 Cages, +1 RB, +1 Skite, +1 Haz
Take out Chalices and Magus is the play here.
Ancient Grudge is going to hit for either 2 or 1, so you can’t really avoid it.
They have a hard time blocking in this match-up so an early Rabs can be deadly.
Elves [mono green] [control]
-4 Moons, -1 PnK, -4 Rabs, -1 Koth
+2 Anger, +2 Cage, +2 Spy, +2 Eidolon, +1 Skite, +1 Torpor
Keep in Ballista
In Elves matches watch for the Coco sign… if not, then is Magus really good? Anger is probably better. They’ll have Rec Sage so it makes sense to get a Torpor in.
Jeskai Control (Gearhulk and Nahiri) 4 creatures in latter.
-2 Abrade, -2 Slagstorm, -4 Bridge
+1 Skite, +1 RB, +1 Torpor, +2 Eidolon, +1 Haz, +2 Boils, +Cage?
Go hardcore Aggro? They 4 Bolts and 4 Paths, so if I show a lot of creatures game 1, going aggro may not be the way to win here. If I do not show creatures, then they’ll potentially board out the 1 mana removals and I can the ground troops going. Bottom Line I like the one-ofs and some Boil no doubt.
Jund [Russ says the control roll sucks here]
-2 Slags, -1 Abrade, [-Magus b/c bolted easily]
+1 Skite, +1 Haz, +1 Spyglass
Chalice on 2 is great here, Decay, Goyf, Confidant, Brutality, Grudge, Terminate
Pulse and K-command are at 3 CC.
Kiki-Combo
-2 Magus, -2 Slags, -2 Abrade, -2 Ballista
+2 Eidolon, +1 Skite, +1 Torpor Orb, +2 Boil, +2 Spyglass
Sweepers are useless here. They will get a hasty thing and copy it a bunch then swing.
Early disruption, aggro kill.
Chalice on 0 – exceptionally useful.
Lantern
-4 Bridge, -2 Rabs, -2 Slags, -2 Ballista
+2 Spree, +2 Eidlon, +2 Boil, +1 Haz, +1 Skite, +2 Spyglass
Chalice on 0 cuts off Bauble and Opal. Chalice on 1 is CASH.
Maybe I’m going down too many Rabs here. I think their removal is limited for Rabs.
Living End
-2 Abrade, -1 Slagstorm
+Spellskite, +Torpor Orb, +Ratchet Bomb [As Foretold]
Living End none green runs Beast Within main deck, so a GAME OVER Chalice on 0 is far from safe. Living End blue has remand and cryptic to watch out for. From the board they have pact of negation and all the other *****ty counterspells we would hate to see, Ceremonious Rejection, Dispel, Negate etc.
Merfolk
-4 Rabs, -2 Magus, -1 Blood Moon
+2 Angers, +1 Skite, +1 RB, +2 Spyglass, +1 Torpor, +2 Boil
Careful with the moon effects going down. If they show all Islands, then yeah, but if there’s a lot of Caverns and Mutavaults, be weary.
Mono W Death N Taxes
-4 Blood Moon, -2 Magus
+2 Angers, +2 Spyglass, +1 Torpor, +1 Skite
Mono W Proc
- Maybe dump the Blood Moon package
+1 Torpor, +2 Spyglass [Proc], +2 Anger, +1 Haz?, +2 Eidolon
They have 10 plains, but a lot of non basics in GQ, Emeria, Mistveil. It may be a dagger to moon them b/c they have a lot of double white. PTE is their targeted removal.
Mono G
-
+
Mardu Pyro
-1 Land, -2 Maggie, -1 Koth, -2 Chandra
+1 Anger, +1 Skite, +2 Eidolon, +1 Haz, +1 Orb
Or go full control and drop 4 Rabs, No Eidolons in, 1 Chandra and add an Anger?
Get them off Black mana asap and get a chalice on 1 asap. Watch for 2 CC removal though. Dreadboar and Terminate. Lock out, moon and bridge, aggro with lucky protection, Rabs and Chalice.
Scapeshift [aggro]
-1 Slag, -2 Abrade, -2 Slag[?], -2 Chalice
+2 Eidolon, +1 Haz, +1 Spellskite, +2 Eidolon, +1 Torpor Orb
Chalice on 1 is not so good. Bolts and Relic are really the only one. Chalice on 0 is better, early Chalice on 2 is good too.
Spirits (Bant)
-
+Orb, +2 Anger
Storm [aggro]
-4 Bridge, -4 Moons, -2 Magus
+2 Cage, +2 Anger, +2 Boil, +1 Spellskite, +2 Eidolon, +1 Haz
Watch EE and watch for the goblin hoard. Hold a sweeper if you can.
Through the Breach
-2 Abrade, -2 Slag, -2 Ballista
+2 Eidolon, +1 Haz, +1 Skite, + Orb, + Spyglass, + Boil
Careful when sideboarding in this match. If a moon effect isn’t back-breaking, take out Maggies, of if Jeskai is confirmed, they likely use Bolt type removal, so Maggies really have diminishing to no impact. If they are running Islands, bring in Boils. Jeskai Breach gets there Breach angle by cutting counter magic [watch for remand and mana leak].
U/R Delver
-
+
U/W Control [aggro]
-2 Abrade, -2 Slagstorm, -1 Magus [Russ], -1 Ballista [me], -2 Magus [me], - Chalice. Don’t be afraid to cut Chalice here.
+1 Spy, +2 Boil, +1 Skite, +1 Haz, +2 Eidolon [max 8-10, cut off Snap? With Cage]
I might go down a Rabs if I show that game 1. If I don’t, I’ll keep him in. I’d like to have 2 Spys for Jace and 2 Boils for when they tap out for Jace.
They have Paths and Verdicts. If you win Game 1 without showing creatures, you likely have clean shots with them in Game 2.
RATCHET BOMB
I've had it in'n'out of lists a whole lot. It's a swing card that fills the gap when my (74) is a little light on sweepers or removal. Principally, I like it against Death's Shadow and Burn creatures.
The side benefits are also Lantern Control, Bogles, Infect. Buuuut, we are already favored against these, so you gotta be careful in how we're allocating sideboard slots. There is a benefit to bringing it in against Affinity (but, not if it's replacing a shattering spree slot). And, also, I like it against Jund. Lately, Bomb is good against Mardu Tokens, buuuuut not really since it blows up our own chalice.
I'm finalizing my deck list for Sunday's SCG Worcester, MA Classic when DevtheRevRyan and Raystack sled into Worcester for a tag-team throwdown. Speaking of, you can certainly share your doc on your sideboard guide, regardless of how you based it on my lists. No problem, hombré.
SIDEBOARD SHENANIGANS
A little bit of Cray-Cray from the Ray-Ray: O.K. so there's been a good deal of talk about the land count for Pyro Prison. I'm very settled on (21) especially when I rock a couple tormenting voice. But, I've seen (22) as Dev is considering. Now, feel free to tell me that I'm crazy, but here's what I'm visualizing at The Classic on Sunday. In game 1, I feel like I should be favored: folks won't know what I'm on, and they're without sideboard answers like artifact kill cards. Alright, so I'm going to assume the win. This puts me on the Draw in game 2. What's the most important card to see in an opening hand in game 2 on the Draw?
You guessed it: Gemstone Caverns. What if I keep a 4th Gemstone Caverns in the sideboard? I'm a little better insulated against a mana drought and far more likely to land a critical Turn 1 Chalice of the Void or a Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon. And, if I'm facing Humans or related-swarm, I can speed into a sweeper or duck under a bridge that much sooner. Is this idea straight up clown shoes??
i play eldrazi stompy with 3 gemstone Main and 1 side...this Land is to me the most important sideboard ever. But in the other side, i play serum powder and eternal scourge so i need it, but chalice turn 1 means you need it too . I personally love this and pros have often lands in side too. 2 lands side, next time i use 3. my list, watch sideboard http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18226&d=312967&f=MO
If you read my open report from December, I clearly state that Gemstone Caverns was the best card of the weekend, by a mile. it's literally chrome mox when on the draw. It's the exact same function as chrome mox.
Other lands I've been testing in my board with inconclusive results are two of those lands from eldritch moon that say whenever your opponent makes you discard a card, you can put it on top of your library instead. I've been testing siding out two caverns for two of those when on the play vs discard decks. Testing so far has been inclusive, so don't do this for the classic on Sunday. More testing is needed, but just wanted everyone to know where my head is at these days.
Ray, I really like the idea of a 4th Gemstone from the board, but I'm really curious about what we're cutting? My sideboard always feels a card or two too small as it is.. I'm gonna squeeze one in and see how it goes. I think it's a pretty sharp idea.
Alright, friends came over last night and we tested many matches vs mardu pyromancer. Here's what I learned and the strategy for the match going forward.
1. Blood moon doesn't hurt them nearly as much as we would like.
2. Ensnaring bridge never sticks and is a recipe for disaster.
3. Even with the proper sideboard, this match is still very unfavorable due to match one being so lopsided. Post board it's 50/50 assuming you board correctly. More on that in a moment.
4. Lock pieces still work well here, but they need to be considered speed bumps and not lock pieces. you cant lock this deck out, which also eludes to item #2 above.
Alright, so how do we take this down? Well, we tested about 15 post board games last night and this is the configuration I would go with....
Out 6 moons, 4 bridges, 1 pyretic ritual. This is a.match that will go long and powering out an early spell only to have it bolted is not where you wanna be. Even an early Chandra doesn't stick for as long as you would like.
In. 3 eidolon, 1 hazoret, 1 spellskite, 1 torpor orb, 2 anger, 2 cage, 1 spyglass. ( They usually play a single hazoret and/or lily, so only one orb is needed.
Chalice on one stops a lot of removal and forces them to find a k command or a terminate /dreadbore to remove stuff. Not a lock, but enough disruption to have an effect. Gotta play aggressive here. They draw too many cards and will out makes a grind and out last us long game. Rabblemaster makes a steady stream of tokens that can race the token output of the deck and the other cards are self explanatory.
Well, yesterday was the day for me. I stopped by for a 4-round Modern Challenge side event (45 people) and went undefeated in rounds and games. Today? I wasn't able to make the Classic. I am going to try to swing by for another side event, and cheer on DevtheRevRyan whom I met yesterday IRL.
What a super guy - good laughs & so much to chat about, before I got sucked back into more rounds of play. I am excited to talk more about strategies with him later today & root him on.
Spreaking of strategies, nice investigative work there, Russ, on trying to crack the code of Mardu Tokens. Ambivalent as I was, my inclination was to go for the Ensnaring Bridge/Spellskites approach, but I can certainly see clear to going aggro as you recommend. I agree with your bring-ins except for maybe sorcerous spyglass - but it depends on what else is in folk's (75). It's tough sledding either way.
Alright, here's my current tournament Pyro Prison deck --- post-unbanning. It adheres to our 'stock list' with a few Main Deck flex positions bending towards more sweep and loot. I really like where it lands, and it did well yesterday [Jace-Jeskai Tempo / Jace-Jeskai Tempo / Primeval Titan / Affinity] and on cockatrice testing. Dev and I talked a lot about cockatrice vs. MTGO, and he had some really good insights/recommendations on switching over - maybe trying Mana Traders.
The Sideboard sees some new blood. Pyroclasm & Gemstone Caverns. First, the caverns: still in the testing phase, but I think I'm onto something here. Thx for the feedback earlier, and it's interesting to see that MTGthewary uses the same technique in his Eldrazi Stompy deck. I saw that you piloted that to 1st place in an SCG IQ - good on ya! I have also dabbled with that construction & put up some feedback on that MTGsalvation thread - explosive deck.
PYROCLASM vs. ANGER OF THE GODS
As for pyroclasm, here's my logic. If you look at the history of the development of this deck, one of the critical concerns was casting costs. Specifically, 3-CMC spells. We were overloaded with them. The use of ritual could smooth that ramp up, but you still never want to fan open a starting hand with nothing but 3 casting cost spells: E. Bridge and Slagstorm/Sweltering Suns/ Anger of the Gods. Realistically, If we really need to bring in 4 sweepers on top of 4 bridges, then it's safe to say that we're facing a damned fast swarm deck. Pyroclasm fills a cozy 2-cmc slot. It'll miss the 3 toughness, and it doesn't exile. BUT, if you really look at today's meta, it isn't like it once was with things like Kitchen Finks/infinite life tricks. And, don't forget we are already favored against Dredge. Just saying, I'd much rather have a 2-cmc answer to Thalia, guardian of Thraben these days. Don't get me going on my whole anti-white rage again - I don't know if folks got that I was being cheeky on that rant.
Alright, so give it a gander, and please/please/please let's get some more decklist submissions from people! What are we doing about Jace and Blood Braid Elf?? Dev and I talked about Jace yesterday, and I gave 2 decks a kickin' as well. Dev pointed out that they have 6 hard openings for us: 4 jace casting and 2 azcanta casting. That's all a mountain man needs to lay down some hurt.
Ray, I'm testing that land which helps with the discard spells. Also, it's possible that the 4 Mana card from amonkket that cycles otmr destroys a land/artifact can do work. Also, defense grid could also help with the counter spells..... problem is the deck is pretty tight. Finding room for all those will be a challenge
Ray, I'm testing that land which helps with the discard spells. Also, it's possible that the 4 Mana card from amonkket that cycles otmr destroys a land/artifact can do work. Also, defense grid could also help with the counter spells..... problem is the deck is pretty tight. Finding room for all those will be a challenge
Although the meta is much more narrow with the Modern Online Champ, I think one thing of note is that even in the Narrow field Jund was popular. Jund being popular with Boggles showing how it is good against that is an interesting double edge sword for us. 1: We are terrible against Jund. 2: We are amazing against Boggles. It is interesting to say the least. An interesting time to be running Pyro Prison.
I myself have had horrific luck with the deck since the unbanning. It is sidelined at the moment only because I am waiting for the Meta to settle down. I run into way too many Jund players playing all the basics.
Russ, you named 2 cards without naming the 2 cards. Li'l help?
Agree that Jund is atrocious for us, Fluffy. This is the first time Pyro Prison has ever had a 'quote/unquote' BAD matchup. Most other competitive decks have had to contend with this phenomena since the inception of the game. It's very humbling. But, I'll say that it's gonna take a lot more than some skunked-out, hippie chick with tomato juice soaked into her braids to scare me back into my cave!!
Nephalia academy. Sideboard card. Bring in two and take out two gemstone caverns when on the play vs discard decks like jund.
Violent impact. Could be used to tag that pesky basic or cycle to search for something. I think this is better than tormenting voice, Ray, but testing may prove otherwise.
Bonus card.....harvest pyre. Can hit a goyf and make it smaller at the same time. It's the only red card that can reliably kill goyf at two Mana. Even roast might not do it because of all the artifacts, enchantment, and Planeswalkers we play.
Hey guys. I wanted to drop in with a somber note. In case you saw my postings, not good. I dropped after 5 at 2-3.
I was rolling on 2-0 bounce back to 2-2 (one bye included) and ready to live the 7-0 dream. Then I missed a Chalice trigger, and my Round 5 Humans opponent resolved an Aether Vile, that decided the game.
I have more detailed notes, but I'm going to rest and get my breath, then catch up with everyone.
Ray. Just some more notes on MTGO. Leagues cost 8/12 tickets, effectively $8/$12 dollars, which are 5 matches. If you're 3-2 in the league you earn enough player points to play another league with player points, free, and you get some number of treasure chests. The chests have 3 cards or 2 cards and player points. I think the cards are a mythic, rare, and wildcard. You can sell them if you like with a bot, or you can hold them to build your collection. Lastly, if you don't want to pay to play, you can use your deck in a sort of open-play format. The open-play format has different tiers of seriousness, so this is a good place to test an idea out before you really give it a run. Thanks for your time, encouragement and discussions this weekend. I had a great time, and I look forward to Hartford.
Ohan....the ole Miss chalice trigger for the loss.....that stinks. What else did you play vs? Was jund prevalent? I was watching the standings the whole day and was rooting for ya!
Has anyone tested culling scales in this deck? It takes out Bob, goyf, lily, deaths shadow, every card in affinity, himans, and zoo, since all of out permanents are at the these CC alot, by the time it affects us, we could just choose culling scales. Thoughts?
Forget everything I just said.....it hits our chalice. Crap.
I've had it in'n'out of lists a whole lot. It's a swing card that fills the gap when my (74) is a little light on sweepers or removal. Principally, I like it against Death's Shadow and Burn creatures.
The side benefits are also Lantern Control, Bogles, Infect. Buuuut, we are already favored against these, so you gotta be careful in how we're allocating sideboard slots. There is a benefit to bringing it in against Affinity (but, not if it's replacing a shattering spree slot). And, also, I like it against Jund. Lately, Bomb is good against Mardu Tokens, buuuuut not really since it blows up our own chalice.
I'm finalizing my deck list for Sunday's SCG Worcester, MA Classic when DevtheRevRyan and Raystack sled into Worcester for a tag-team throwdown. Speaking of, you can certainly share your doc on your sideboard guide, regardless of how you based it on my lists. No problem, hombré.
SIDEBOARD SHENANIGANS
A little bit of Cray-Cray from the Ray-Ray: O.K. so there's been a good deal of talk about the land count for Pyro Prison. I'm very settled on (21) especially when I rock a couple tormenting voice. But, I've seen (22) as Dev is considering. Now, feel free to tell me that I'm crazy, but here's what I'm visualizing at The Classic on Sunday. In game 1, I feel like I should be favored: folks won't know what I'm on, and they're without sideboard answers like artifact kill cards. Alright, so I'm going to assume the win. This puts me on the Draw in game 2. What's the most important card to see in an opening hand in game 2 on the Draw?
You guessed it: Gemstone Caverns. What if I keep a 4th Gemstone Caverns in the sideboard? I'm a little better insulated against a mana drought and far more likely to land a critical Turn 1 Chalice of the Void or a Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon. And, if I'm facing Humans or related-swarm, I can speed into a sweeper or duck under a bridge that much sooner. Is this idea straight up clown shoes??
I'll be there on Saturday too, playing some challenges. I wonder if I should play a different deck to avoid the jig being up sooner than I'd like. I have burn and a weak Bogles build. I also have a mono black vampires I could run. Personally, I think I'd rather get the reps, but since I started playing against repeat opponents [in paper] I know that knowledge of what I'm playing, completely alters their approach.
If I pair up with someone on Saturday for sharts and giggles, then see them again sunday at the big dance, I'll be upset I gave away free info prior to the match.
I could switch the sleeves on my Dragon Shields to make people think that its a different deck from yesterday, maybe I'm overthinking it but either way I'd love to hear some thoughts.
Rev
I'm not going to beef the formatting that much, if you want that, I can email you the doc with bolded titles etc.
General Notes
Jedi-Mind Trick – Game 1 or just Turn 1 in general, make a fuss over what land to play to deceive opponents into thinking we're not mono colored.
Against anything with Lingering Souls – Keep Ballista in.
Bridge out? Haz in. Careful in midrange. If the midrange is too big for sweepers, then bridge might stay and removal package out.
Chalice on 1 shines in the following match-ups: Mardu Pyro, Infect, Boggles, Affinity [?], GDS, Tron [Big], Burn, Jund DS, Lantern.
I’m unsure of how to approach the Death N Taxes match-up.
Any type of big tron, go full-throttle. No bridges, slags or ballistas.
Aggro Plan:
+Eidolon, +Haz, definitely, +Boil, +Skite, +Spy, +Orb
Affinity [control]
-4 Rabs, -1 Koth, -1 Magus
+2 Anger, +1 Skite, +2 Spree, +1 Ratchet Bomb
Keep in both Ballista. Don’t race… try to cut them off their gameplan. Chalice on 2 is way more lethal than Chalice on 0, but Chalice 1 is a must have. Chalice on 0 on the play is nice.
Abzan
-4 Chalice, -2 Abrade
+2 Angers, +2 Cage, +1 RB, +1 Torpor
Ad-Naus
-4 Bridges, -2 Slags, -2 Chandra
+2 Spree, +2 Spy, +1 Skite, +1 Haz, +2 Eidolon
PW a little weak in this match-up.
Big Tron
-4 Bridges, -2 Slag, -1 PnK, - X Chalice, -Ballista
+2 Spree, +2 Spy, +1 Skite, +2 Eidolon, 1 Haz
Bogles
-4 Rabs, -2 Ballista?
+2 Anger, +1 Skite, +2 Eidolon, +1 Haz
Burn
-4 Bridges, -2 Magus, -1 Chandra, -1 Koth
+2 Eidolon, +1 Skite, +1 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Haz, +2 Eidolon
Death N Taxes
-
+
Keep in Ballista
Death Shadow [control]
-2 Slag, -2 Abrade, -1 Mags, -2 Ballista
+1 Skite, +2 Boil, +1 Haz, +2 Eidolon, +1 Spy [lilly?], +1 Ratchet Bomb
Potentially keep in all Magus. Maybe skip the Spyglass or an Eidolon.
Maybe skip the Boil insertion. Add Ratchet Bomb
Spyglasses are for Lilly(s). Watch for those as well to refine sideboarding.
This is a control position match-up.
Dredge
-4 Rabs, -2 Chalices, -2 Maggies[?]
+2 Anger, +2 Cages, +1 RB, +1 Skite, +1 Haz
Take out Chalices and Magus is the play here.
Ancient Grudge is going to hit for either 2 or 1, so you can’t really avoid it.
They have a hard time blocking in this match-up so an early Rabs can be deadly.
Eldrazi [Bant]
-X Chalice, -4 Rabs
+2 Spyglass, +2 Anger, +1 Haz, +1 RB, +1 Skite, +1 Torpor
Chalice seems effective on 3 and up.
Eldrazi and Taxes
- Likely the moon package. They have 4 GQ and 4 Tec Edge and 4 Canopies
+2 Anger, +2 Spyglass, +1 Skite, +1 Torpor Orb
Eldrazi Tron [colorless-type], [aggro?]
-4 Chalice, -2 Slags, -4 Rabs?
+2 Spree, +2 Anger, +1 Skite, +1 Haz, +2 Spy +1 orb
Eldrazi Tron [G/R]
-1 Chalice, -4 Rabs, -1 PnK
+2 Spree, +1 Skite, +1 Haz, +2 Spy
Elves [mono green] [control]
-4 Moons, -1 PnK, -4 Rabs, -1 Koth
+2 Anger, +2 Cage, +2 Spy, +2 Eidolon, +1 Skite, +1 Torpor
Keep in Ballista
In Elves matches watch for the Coco sign… if not, then is Magus really good? Anger is probably better. They’ll have Rec Sage so it makes sense to get a Torpor in.
Elves [G/x] [control]
-1 PnK, -1 Koth, -4 Rabs, -2 Ballista,
+2 Anger, +2 Cage, +2 Spy, +1 Skite, +1 Torpor
Keep in Ballista
G/W Value Town
-4 Rabs
+2 Cages, +2 Spyglass, +1 Anger
Keep in Ballista
G/W CoCo Company
-4 Rabs[maybe not], -4 Chalices, -4 Bridges [all options], - Mags
+2 Cages, +2 Spyglass, +1 Skite, +2 Eidolon, +1 Haz, +1 Orb [No K.Finks]
Goblins
-4 Blood Moon, -1 Koth, -1 PnK
+2 Anger, +1 Skite, +1 Haz, +2 Eidolon, +1 Torpor
Goryo’s Combo [see Kiki-Combo too]
-2 Abrade, -2 Ballista, -2 Slag
+2 Cage, +2 Spy, +1 Skite, +1 Torpor
Grixis Control
-1 PnK, -2 Ballista, -4 Bridge, -1 Koth
+2 Cage, +2 Boil, +1 Skite, +1 Haz, +2 Eidolon
Humans
-4 Chalice, -1 PnK, -1 Koth
+2 Anger, +1 Skite, +1 Orb, +2 Spree [+2 Spy?]
Infect
-1 Koth, -1 PnK, -4 Rabs
+2 Eidolon, +1 Skite, +2 Spy, +1 Anger
Keep in Ballista.
Jeskai Control (Gearhulk and Nahiri) 4 creatures in latter.
-2 Abrade, -2 Slagstorm, -4 Bridge
+1 Skite, +1 RB, +1 Torpor, +2 Eidolon, +1 Haz, +2 Boils, +Cage?
Go hardcore Aggro? They 4 Bolts and 4 Paths, so if I show a lot of creatures game 1, going aggro may not be the way to win here. If I do not show creatures, then they’ll potentially board out the 1 mana removals and I can the ground troops going. Bottom Line I like the one-ofs and some Boil no doubt.
Jeskai Control (Queller and geist)
-2 Abrade, -2 Slagstorm, -4 Bridge
+1 Skite, +1 RB, +1 Torpor, +2 Eidolon, +1 Haz, +2 Boils, +Cage?
Jeskai Copy-cat
-2 Abrade, -2 Slags, -1 Rabs
+2 Spyglass, +1 RB, +1 Torpor, +1 Haz
Jund [Russ says the control roll sucks here]
-2 Slags, -1 Abrade, [-Magus b/c bolted easily]
+1 Skite, +1 Haz, +1 Spyglass
Chalice on 2 is great here, Decay, Goyf, Confidant, Brutality, Grudge, Terminate
Pulse and K-command are at 3 CC.
Jund Zoo
-2 Magus, - Rabs
+2 Anger, +1 Skite, +1 Haz
Kiki-Combo
-2 Magus, -2 Slags, -2 Abrade, -2 Ballista
+2 Eidolon, +1 Skite, +1 Torpor Orb, +2 Boil, +2 Spyglass
Sweepers are useless here. They will get a hasty thing and copy it a bunch then swing.
Early disruption, aggro kill.
Chalice on 0 – exceptionally useful.
Lantern
-4 Bridge, -2 Rabs, -2 Slags, -2 Ballista
+2 Spree, +2 Eidlon, +2 Boil, +1 Haz, +1 Skite, +2 Spyglass
Chalice on 0 cuts off Bauble and Opal. Chalice on 1 is CASH.
Maybe I’m going down too many Rabs here. I think their removal is limited for Rabs.
Living End
-2 Abrade, -1 Slagstorm
+Spellskite, +Torpor Orb, +Ratchet Bomb [As Foretold]
Living End none green runs Beast Within main deck, so a GAME OVER Chalice on 0 is far from safe. Living End blue has remand and cryptic to watch out for. From the board they have pact of negation and all the other *****ty counterspells we would hate to see, Ceremonious Rejection, Dispel, Negate etc.
Merfolk
-4 Rabs, -2 Magus, -1 Blood Moon
+2 Angers, +1 Skite, +1 RB, +2 Spyglass, +1 Torpor, +2 Boil
Careful with the moon effects going down. If they show all Islands, then yeah, but if there’s a lot of Caverns and Mutavaults, be weary.
Mono W Death N Taxes
-4 Blood Moon, -2 Magus
+2 Angers, +2 Spyglass, +1 Torpor, +1 Skite
Mono W Proc
- Maybe dump the Blood Moon package
+1 Torpor, +2 Spyglass [Proc], +2 Anger, +1 Haz?, +2 Eidolon
They have 10 plains, but a lot of non basics in GQ, Emeria, Mistveil. It may be a dagger to moon them b/c they have a lot of double white. PTE is their targeted removal.
Mono G
-
+
Mardu Pyro
-1 Land, -2 Maggie, -1 Koth, -2 Chandra
+1 Anger, +1 Skite, +2 Eidolon, +1 Haz, +1 Orb
Or go full control and drop 4 Rabs, No Eidolons in, 1 Chandra and add an Anger?
Get them off Black mana asap and get a chalice on 1 asap. Watch for 2 CC removal though. Dreadboar and Terminate. Lock out, moon and bridge, aggro with lucky protection, Rabs and Chalice.
Ponza
-4 Blood Moon, -2 Magus
+1 Skite, +2 Eidolon, +1 RB, +2 Anger
R/W Prison
-4 Blood moon, -2 Magus, probably don’t need chalice here either, -2 Ballista?
+2 Spyglass, +1 Spellskite, +1 RB, +1 Haz,
Scapeshift [aggro]
-1 Slag, -2 Abrade, -2 Slag[?], -2 Chalice
+2 Eidolon, +1 Haz, +1 Spellskite, +2 Eidolon, +1 Torpor Orb
Chalice on 1 is not so good. Bolts and Relic are really the only one. Chalice on 0 is better, early Chalice on 2 is good too.
Spirits (Bant)
-
+Orb, +2 Anger
Storm [aggro]
-4 Bridge, -4 Moons, -2 Magus
+2 Cage, +2 Anger, +2 Boil, +1 Spellskite, +2 Eidolon, +1 Haz
Watch EE and watch for the goblin hoard. Hold a sweeper if you can.
Through the Breach
-2 Abrade, -2 Slag, -2 Ballista
+2 Eidolon, +1 Haz, +1 Skite, + Orb, + Spyglass, + Boil
Careful when sideboarding in this match. If a moon effect isn’t back-breaking, take out Maggies, of if Jeskai is confirmed, they likely use Bolt type removal, so Maggies really have diminishing to no impact. If they are running Islands, bring in Boils. Jeskai Breach gets there Breach angle by cutting counter magic [watch for remand and mana leak].
U/R Delver
-
+
U/W Control [aggro]
-2 Abrade, -2 Slagstorm, -1 Magus [Russ], -1 Ballista [me], -2 Magus [me], - Chalice. Don’t be afraid to cut Chalice here.
+1 Spy, +2 Boil, +1 Skite, +1 Haz, +2 Eidolon [max 8-10, cut off Snap? With Cage]
I might go down a Rabs if I show that game 1. If I don’t, I’ll keep him in. I’d like to have 2 Spys for Jace and 2 Boils for when they tap out for Jace.
They have Paths and Verdicts. If you win Game 1 without showing creatures, you likely have clean shots with them in Game 2.
U/R Pyro
-2 Slags, -2 Magus, -4 Bridge, -2 Abrade [If Pyro]
+1 Skite, +1 Haz, +2 Eidolon, +2 Boil, +2 Anger [see Pyro 1st], +1 Orb
Zoo
-4 Rabs, -1 Pnk, -1 Koth
+2 Cage, +2 Anger, +1 Haz, +1 Skite
Any notes, feedback, disagreements or additional thoughts are of course appreciated. I'll be checkin' in tonight.
HollaAtChaBoi
DR
Other lands I've been testing in my board with inconclusive results are two of those lands from eldritch moon that say whenever your opponent makes you discard a card, you can put it on top of your library instead. I've been testing siding out two caverns for two of those when on the play vs discard decks. Testing so far has been inclusive, so don't do this for the classic on Sunday. More testing is needed, but just wanted everyone to know where my head is at these days.
I just did 5-2 again, but I use 8 Rituals + 4 Trinesfer
Same list I played at the open in December and the classic in January. Starcity games.
1. Blood moon doesn't hurt them nearly as much as we would like.
2. Ensnaring bridge never sticks and is a recipe for disaster.
3. Even with the proper sideboard, this match is still very unfavorable due to match one being so lopsided. Post board it's 50/50 assuming you board correctly. More on that in a moment.
4. Lock pieces still work well here, but they need to be considered speed bumps and not lock pieces. you cant lock this deck out, which also eludes to item #2 above.
Alright, so how do we take this down? Well, we tested about 15 post board games last night and this is the configuration I would go with....
Out 6 moons, 4 bridges, 1 pyretic ritual. This is a.match that will go long and powering out an early spell only to have it bolted is not where you wanna be. Even an early Chandra doesn't stick for as long as you would like.
In. 3 eidolon, 1 hazoret, 1 spellskite, 1 torpor orb, 2 anger, 2 cage, 1 spyglass. ( They usually play a single hazoret and/or lily, so only one orb is needed.
Chalice on one stops a lot of removal and forces them to find a k command or a terminate /dreadbore to remove stuff. Not a lock, but enough disruption to have an effect. Gotta play aggressive here. They draw too many cards and will out makes a grind and out last us long game. Rabblemaster makes a steady stream of tokens that can race the token output of the deck and the other cards are self explanatory.
What a super guy - good laughs & so much to chat about, before I got sucked back into more rounds of play. I am excited to talk more about strategies with him later today & root him on.
Spreaking of strategies, nice investigative work there, Russ, on trying to crack the code of Mardu Tokens. Ambivalent as I was, my inclination was to go for the Ensnaring Bridge/Spellskites approach, but I can certainly see clear to going aggro as you recommend. I agree with your bring-ins except for maybe sorcerous spyglass - but it depends on what else is in folk's (75). It's tough sledding either way.
Alright, here's my current tournament Pyro Prison deck --- post-unbanning. It adheres to our 'stock list' with a few Main Deck flex positions bending towards more sweep and loot. I really like where it lands, and it did well yesterday [Jace-Jeskai Tempo / Jace-Jeskai Tempo / Primeval Titan / Affinity] and on cockatrice testing. Dev and I talked a lot about cockatrice vs. MTGO, and he had some really good insights/recommendations on switching over - maybe trying Mana Traders.
The Sideboard sees some new blood. Pyroclasm & Gemstone Caverns. First, the caverns: still in the testing phase, but I think I'm onto something here. Thx for the feedback earlier, and it's interesting to see that MTGthewary uses the same technique in his Eldrazi Stompy deck. I saw that you piloted that to 1st place in an SCG IQ - good on ya! I have also dabbled with that construction & put up some feedback on that MTGsalvation thread - explosive deck.
PYROCLASM vs. ANGER OF THE GODS
As for pyroclasm, here's my logic. If you look at the history of the development of this deck, one of the critical concerns was casting costs. Specifically, 3-CMC spells. We were overloaded with them. The use of ritual could smooth that ramp up, but you still never want to fan open a starting hand with nothing but 3 casting cost spells: E. Bridge and Slagstorm/Sweltering Suns/ Anger of the Gods. Realistically, If we really need to bring in 4 sweepers on top of 4 bridges, then it's safe to say that we're facing a damned fast swarm deck. Pyroclasm fills a cozy 2-cmc slot. It'll miss the 3 toughness, and it doesn't exile. BUT, if you really look at today's meta, it isn't like it once was with things like Kitchen Finks/infinite life tricks. And, don't forget we are already favored against Dredge. Just saying, I'd much rather have a 2-cmc answer to Thalia, guardian of Thraben these days. Don't get me going on my whole anti-white rage again - I don't know if folks got that I was being cheeky on that rant.
Alright, so give it a gander, and please/please/please let's get some more decklist submissions from people! What are we doing about Jace and Blood Braid Elf?? Dev and I talked about Jace yesterday, and I gave 2 decks a kickin' as well. Dev pointed out that they have 6 hard openings for us: 4 jace casting and 2 azcanta casting. That's all a mountain man needs to lay down some hurt.
Creatures (6)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Walking Ballista
Power Locks (14)
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
2 Magus of the Moon
Planeswalkers (5)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Koth of the Hammer
3 Slagstorm
1 Abrade
Accelerators (10)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
1 Tormenting Voice
Lands (21)
17 Mountains
3 Gemstone Caverns
1 Mutavault
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Spellskite
2 Damping Matrix
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Torpor Orb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pyroclasm
1 Shattering Spree
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Gemstone Caverns
Although the meta is much more narrow with the Modern Online Champ, I think one thing of note is that even in the Narrow field Jund was popular. Jund being popular with Boggles showing how it is good against that is an interesting double edge sword for us. 1: We are terrible against Jund. 2: We are amazing against Boggles. It is interesting to say the least. An interesting time to be running Pyro Prison.
I myself have had horrific luck with the deck since the unbanning. It is sidelined at the moment only because I am waiting for the Meta to settle down. I run into way too many Jund players playing all the basics.
Agree that Jund is atrocious for us, Fluffy. This is the first time Pyro Prison has ever had a 'quote/unquote' BAD matchup. Most other competitive decks have had to contend with this phenomena since the inception of the game. It's very humbling. But, I'll say that it's gonna take a lot more than some skunked-out, hippie chick with tomato juice soaked into her braids to scare me back into my cave!!
Violent impact. Could be used to tag that pesky basic or cycle to search for something. I think this is better than tormenting voice, Ray, but testing may prove otherwise.
Bonus card.....harvest pyre. Can hit a goyf and make it smaller at the same time. It's the only red card that can reliably kill goyf at two Mana. Even roast might not do it because of all the artifacts, enchantment, and Planeswalkers we play.
I was rolling on 2-0 bounce back to 2-2 (one bye included) and ready to live the 7-0 dream. Then I missed a Chalice trigger, and my Round 5 Humans opponent resolved an Aether Vile, that decided the game.
I have more detailed notes, but I'm going to rest and get my breath, then catch up with everyone.
Ray. Just some more notes on MTGO. Leagues cost 8/12 tickets, effectively $8/$12 dollars, which are 5 matches. If you're 3-2 in the league you earn enough player points to play another league with player points, free, and you get some number of treasure chests. The chests have 3 cards or 2 cards and player points. I think the cards are a mythic, rare, and wildcard. You can sell them if you like with a bot, or you can hold them to build your collection. Lastly, if you don't want to pay to play, you can use your deck in a sort of open-play format. The open-play format has different tiers of seriousness, so this is a good place to test an idea out before you really give it a run. Thanks for your time, encouragement and discussions this weekend. I had a great time, and I look forward to Hartford.
DR
Forget everything I just said.....it hits our chalice. Crap.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-modern-constructed-league-2018-03-02