And good luck in magic christmas land then friend, the rest of us will be actually testing instead of talking.
This is childish. I've been playing the deck (mono-b, b/w and b/g) since the same week it first won a league 5-0, and i play 2 to 4 tournaments a week at different LGS in my area (with good results). My "talking" comes from experience, and i would presume your "talking" does as well. If we all stopped "talking" then there would be no forums at all, right?
It is perfectly possible that we both have different perspective about wasteland strangler for reasons other than not playing the deck. Strangler is consistent in my deck. I built the deck so that it is, and yes playing 8+ graveyard hate cards is an integral part of the deck's strategy. If it was magical christmas people would stop playing it and i still see most list with 3-4 copies main.
Having 8 plus graveyard hate cards in a deck when you only need to draw 1 to turn on the only processor in the deck that probably NEEDS to process, blight herder, and the only situationally good wasteland strangler, is incorrect unless your meta is literally swimming in aggro and graveyard specific decks. I'm not going to pretend to know your meta, but at the very minimum what your describing is likely unplayable at a serious tournament. 6 is already pushing it, but perhaps necessary when running a full 4 strangler and blight herder, but 8? You're likely verging on filling your openers with dead redundant gravehate. And calling me childish? A low blow that I will not return as I'm a fully grown adult capable of discussing something without resorting to insulting behavior. Please stick to deck relevant conversation.
[quote from="Dimmez »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/651774-bx-eldrazi-processors?comment=1691"][quote from="Niallplaysmagic »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/651774-bx-eldrazi-processors?comment=1689"]But I don't own those cards!
But more seriously - I don't have any desire for the splash of another color, including only 4 sources of that other color isn't enough to splash with at all. Also, I'm of the opinion that GQ + Surgical is much better than crumble to dust.
I mean, Caves of Koilos doesnt offer anything compared to the UB or GB lands which would allow you to pay for the pacts if you are very lucky and get two of them into play. At least they have additional upsides compared to Caves.
</blockquote></blockquote>
A good point(but I have a feeling I don't need to worry about paying for pacts for too much longer.)
And good luck in magic christmas land then friend, the rest of us will be actually testing instead of talking.
This is childish. I've been playing the deck (mono-b, b/w and b/g) since the same week it first won a league 5-0, and i play 2 to 4 tournaments a week at different LGS in my area (with good results). My "talking" comes from experience, and i would presume your "talking" does as well. If we all stopped "talking" then there would be no forums at all, right?
It is perfectly possible that we both have different perspective about wasteland strangler for reasons other than not playing the deck. Strangler is consistent in my deck. I built the deck so that it is, and yes playing 8+ graveyard hate cards is an integral part of the deck's strategy. If it was magical christmas people would stop playing it and i still see most list with 3-4 copies main.
Having 8 plus graveyard hate cards in a deck when you only need to draw 1 to turn on the only processor in the deck that probably NEEDS to process, blight herder, and the only situationally good wasteland strangler, is incorrect unless your meta is literally swimming in aggro and graveyard specific decks. I'm not going to pretend to know your meta, but at the very minimum what your describing is likely unplayable at a serious tournament. 6 is already pushing it, but perhaps necessary when running a full 4 strangler and blight herder, but 8? You're likely verging on filling your openers with dead redundant gravehate. And calling me childish? A low blow that I will not return as I'm a fully grown adult capable of discussing something without resorting to insulting behavior. Please stick to deck relevant conversation.
I have to say that I think each deck needs 6-8 sources of mass exile in order to regularly activate the Process cost of Eldrazi. I've tried with just 4 Relics, 4 Paths, and 1 Utter End. My processors were dead so often it wasn't funny. This also leads me to why I like Ashiok in addition to Relic even though the emphasis is on wrecking graveyard strategies.
It has been my experience, when an opponent figures out what deck you are playing they will go to great lengths to not put cards in the 'yard to shut down your processors so you don't get value. I've had that problem with Merfolk, Scapeshift, Twin, and Bloom prior to them comboing off. You might say, "Well that was a mistake on their part because they are slowing down their own gameplan." but if you look at the lists, not really. Merfolk can play nothing but creatures, enchantments, and artifacts until they have to interact with you. Same with Scapeshift. The opponent simply didn't crack a single fetch until he was ready to go off and then it was too late. Same thing with Twin. Just hold all your counters and don't crack a fetch until you are ready to make the combo happen with plenty of counterspell back up. Our early game is fairly...dismal. (In these match ups Matter Reshaper far out values Strangler). Casting a 4/5 Herder without processing on turn 4 only to have it remanded hurts when they turn around and can just go off without interruption or interaction. Certain decks can absolutely slow roll their plays to shut down our exile effects in order to shut down our game plan and speed. Attacking for 7 a turn with Herder + tokens is 3 turn game. Herder alone is a 5 turn game. When it gets Remanded and that's the first card in their 'yard, much less exile, your Herder is STILL just a vanilla 4/5 on a 5 turn clock starting on turn 6...
I like the B/U deck with Ashiok because I feel like it makes the combo matchup and match ups against decks like Tron easier because you can Delay and Nullifier their real threats. And those matchups don't have to put anything, or enough things, into the graveyard to enact their plan. Having Ashiok to fill the 'yard means that I am prepared once they get into range for their combo.
TL;DR I don't think 4 Relics and 4 Path are enough to enable processors. It really needs to be more like 4 Relics, 2 Claws/Spellbombs, etc. and 4 Path to make them really tick.
More on topic though, I really like the idea of running Languish over Damnation, et al. I was trying to think of creatures it misses, that I care about, and the only ones I could come up with are the Titans but ya know...Tron and Amulet Bloom don't play enough creatures to want the sweeper anyway.
Also, I think its right to play at LEAST the 1-of All is Dust somewhere in the 75 especially if you play on MTGO. There are a lot of random rogue decks on there and some of them lean pretty heavily on non-creature permanents like planeswalkers, enchantments, gods, and artifacts. All of which All is Dust handles pretty efficiently. Its served me well on a few occasions. Not often enough to want more than 1 but certainly enough to justify a spot since it hits ALL colored permanents. There are times where I desperately wish I had a sweeper though and Languish is the perfect answer. I'm thinking 2 Languish, 1 All is Dust in the side?
The following link is an invitation to join Pucatrade (card trading service though similar to TCGPLayer). If you follow the link then it awards me with tokens to exchange for actual cards. Thanks! https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
It is perfectly possible that we both have different perspective about wasteland strangler for reasons other than not playing the deck. Strangler is consistent in my deck. I built the deck so that it is, and yes playing 8+ graveyard hate cards is an integral part of the deck's strategy.
Having 8 plus graveyard hate cards in a deck when you only need to draw 1 to turn on the only processor in the deck that probably NEEDS to process, blight herder, and the only situationally good wasteland strangler, is incorrect unless your meta is literally swimming in aggro and graveyard specific decks. I'm not going to pretend to know your meta, but at the very minimum what your describing is likely unplayable at a serious tournament. 6 is already pushing it, but perhaps necessary when running a full 4 strangler and blight herder, but 8? You're likely verging on filling your openers with dead redundant gravehate.
I feel like drawing multiple exile eggs is fine, they cycle at worst... At best they allow you to curve out your processors, and still cycle!
Perhaps someone knows the proper enablers to processors ratio. My quess would be at least 1:1, preferably 1:1.5 to be consistent (including non-egg cards like bojuka bog). So if you had a full set of Wasteland Strangler and Blight Herder you would want 12 exile enablers minimum for that to be consistent.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
And good luck in magic christmas land then friend, the rest of us will be actually testing instead of talking.
This is childish. I've been playing the deck (mono-b, b/w and b/g) since the same week it first won a league 5-0, and i play 2 to 4 tournaments a week at different LGS in my area (with good results). My "talking" comes from experience, and i would presume your "talking" does as well. If we all stopped "talking" then there would be no forums at all, right?
It is perfectly possible that we both have different perspective about wasteland strangler for reasons other than not playing the deck. Strangler is consistent in my deck. I built the deck so that it is, and yes playing 8+ graveyard hate cards is an integral part of the deck's strategy. If it was magical christmas people would stop playing it and i still see most list with 3-4 copies main.
Having 8 plus graveyard hate cards in a deck when you only need to draw 1 to turn on the only processor in the deck that probably NEEDS to process, blight herder, and the only situationally good wasteland strangler, is incorrect unless your meta is literally swimming in aggro and graveyard specific decks. I'm not going to pretend to know your meta, but at the very minimum what your describing is likely unplayable at a serious tournament. 6 is already pushing it, but perhaps necessary when running a full 4 strangler and blight herder, but 8? You're likely verging on filling your openers with dead redundant gravehate. And calling me childish? A low blow that I will not return as I'm a fully grown adult capable of discussing something without resorting to insulting behavior. Please stick to deck relevant conversation.
There are some serious chips on shoulders in this thread.
Graveyard hate is one of the primary strengths that this deck has that other midrange decks do not have access to. You shut down all snapcaster decks, graveyard based combos, tarmogoyfs, and you do that while also cantripping and setting up powerful value creatures. Wasteland Strangler has been just fine against a host of decks, but if you don't like him no one is forcing you or anyone else to run him.
I really like the look of 4 Seer as it makes the deck very proactive. If I run 4 Thought-Knot Seer, my list will resemble something like this. I'll try it without Mind Stone for now. It's possible that with the gap filled between Herder and Strangler that the extra 2-3 pieces of ramp won't be needed. Otherwise I'll go to 3 Seer, 3 Map, 2 Stone.
Looks solid - I do think though that maybe one of those Urborgs should be an additional colorless source - as is you only have 9 available, I'll be trying Sea Gate Wreckage in that spot.
My build will fall somewhere close this, with some other numbers slightly tuned. I love the new black sweeper as a 1 of in the main, I'll probably run it instead of one of the slaughter pacts.
Perhaps the 3 Seer, 3 Map, 2 Mind Stone split would be better then? I've still increased the number of threats by 3 and hand disruption by 1. And only reduced the ramp from my original list by 1 card. This would also give me 11 colorless sources in addition to the Scion tokens.
Or I could -1 Bojuka Bog, +1 Tectonic Edge. Recently it has been less impactful for me. Also it CIPT has mattered on occasion. And now that I'm replacing Thoughtseize with an exile effect, it only strengthens my desire to replace it. I don't want to reduce the number of Urborg. This may also strengthen my land matters matchups.
I really like the look of 4 Seer as it makes the deck very proactive. If I run 4 Thought-Knot Seer, my list will resemble something like this. I'll try it without Mind Stone for now. It's possible that with the gap filled between Herder and Strangler that the extra 2-3 pieces of ramp won't be needed. Otherwise I'll go to 3 Seer, 3 Map, 2 Stone.
Looks solid - I do think though that maybe one of those Urborgs should be an additional colorless source - as is you only have 9 available, I'll be trying Sea Gate Wreckage in that spot.
My build will fall somewhere close this, with some other numbers slightly tuned. I love the new black sweeper as a 1 of in the main, I'll probably run it instead of one of the slaughter pacts.
Perhaps the 3 Seer, 3 Map, 2 Mind Stone split would be better then? I've still increased the number of threats by 3 and hand disruption by 1. And only reduced the ramp from my original list by 1 card. This would also give me 11 colorless sources in addition to the Scion tokens.
Or I could -1 Bojuka Bog, +1 Tectonic Edge. Recently it has been less impactful for me. Also it CIPT has mattered on occasion. And now that I'm replacing Thoughtseize with an exile effect, it only strengthens my desire to replace it. I don't want to reduce the number of Urborg. This may also strengthen my land matters matchups.
Could be a better configuration - I'm not on the mind stone plan at all so I can't really comment on it. I'm going to look at adding some painlands in place of basics to get those last 4 colorless slots in. With Urborg out they rarely do damage anyway. Lots and lots to test going forward.
I really like the look of 4 Seer as it makes the deck very proactive. If I run 4 Thought-Knot Seer, my list will resemble something like this. I'll try it without Mind Stone for now. It's possible that with the gap filled between Herder and Strangler that the extra 2-3 pieces of ramp won't be needed. Otherwise I'll go to 3 Seer, 3 Map, 2 Stone.
Deck looks really good, i'll try something close to this ( on my MB version ).
Don't u think 3 Dismember is a little too much with all this fast aggro deck around ?
Btw, i think Thought-Knot Seer is the only sure add for the midrange shell, card is just really good, i'm pretty satisfied with him till now, u all should try
Regardless of all the whacky cards out - I feel this is a decision everyone playing colorless eldrazi is going to have to think about...
Personally I like the 1/1 titan split.
If your playing Kozilek for his card advantage I can respect that and understand. But if your looking at Kozilek for his free counter spell clause, I get the feeling (in these particular builds) its not as powerful as you would like it to be. I just think our deck takes advantage of too many expensive CMC creatures to truly abuse it in comparison to typical modern builds regarding CMC cost. These builds can evolve to utilize it more on the other hand.
I would like to hear other opinions on this though.
The only aggro deck I've found it a real issue against has been burn. I even think it's okay against Zoo. Usually you'll have something bigger than theirs down soon enough.
I agree on thought knot seer. Its the only creature in the new set that I see requiring an immediate inclusion. He's a 2 mana Clique that loses flying and flash, but exiles the card entirely and is a 4/4 that doesn't even guarantee they get their card replaced. Damn, I just love this card. Maybe not at 4 of, but easily a 2-3 of standard in every list. Smasher is just completely useless. Sorry. He doesn't do anything. The deck doesn't need a beater. Every card in the deck is a beater. Maybe a 1 of for reach searchable by eye? Even then, meh. Just play bolts if you want reach.
With regards to anti burn sideboard stuff: I like 3 droplet and 1 ruin processor. Droplets do work early game, the single processor can be found with eye in topdeck mode/mid and late game.
Agreed 100%. People just want to bash face, but our deck just isn't good at that. I think wail, thought knot, and the flicker eldrazi are really the most playable cards in the set. Everything else people are trying to jam is super naive.
I think people here are just excited about new cards that synchronize well with what our deck is already doing, that's not naivety, it's optimism.
Trying to jam every card that says "Devoid" or "Eldrazi" out of excitement is the literal definition of naivety in this context. Optimism is thinking "This set can certainly make the deck better." Naivety is "Every card in this set needs to be tested." Its pretty clear what sucks. That said, Smasher is borderline, but I think it fails in that it doesn't actually do anything. All of our creatures are value, and there is no reason Id want to change that for a big dumb beater that can be ignored by a LOT of decks.
The only aggro deck I've found it a real issue against has been burn. I even think it's okay against Zoo. Usually you'll have something bigger than theirs down soon enough.
Well, Burn should be enought reason for u to low down the number of Dismember right, or not ?
How's double B mana cards for u ? I do like Bile Blight and Victim of Night, also Disfigure and Darkblast against (Affinity).
Have to say that i didn't test Spatial Contortion, could be good
That said, Smasher is borderline, but I think it fails in that it doesn't actually do anything. All of our creatures are value, and there is no reason Id want to change that for a big dumb beater that can be ignored by a LOT of decks.
I think he will be awesome in Standard and maybe be a 1 or 2 of in some Modern lists. A hasty trampling 5/5 for 3 with Eye in play is pretty good.
Having 8 plus graveyard hate cards in a deck when you only need to draw 1 to turn on the only processor in the deck that probably NEEDS to process, blight herder, and the only situationally good wasteland strangler, is incorrect unless your meta is literally swimming in aggro and graveyard specific decks. I'm not going to pretend to know your meta, but at the very minimum what your describing is likely unplayable at a serious tournament.
Take a look at all succesful decklists from mtgtop8, ALL of them use 8+ graveyard hate piece (except for white ones because they have path to exile). You graveyard hate either cantrip (relic of progenitus, scrabbling claws and nihil spellbomb) or are part of the land base (bojuka bog), so including them has very low opportunity cost. If you don't like having too much you can play the white deck, but saying it is unplayable is widely false as proven by the success of the deck using them.
And calling me childish? A low blow that I will not return as I'm a fully grown adult capable of discussing something without resorting to insulting behavior. Please stick to deck relevant conversation.
And whoever compared wasteland stangler to freaking LIGHTNING BOLT needs their brain checked (...)
Writing thing like i need my brain checked or presuming i don't play the deck at all because we disagree on card choice isn't very adult. If you're being rude you shouldn't expect any other reaction from my part.
It is perfectly possible that we both have different perspective about wasteland strangler for reasons other than not playing the deck. Strangler is consistent in my deck. I built the deck so that it is, and yes playing 8+ graveyard hate cards is an integral part of the deck's strategy.
Having 8 plus graveyard hate cards in a deck when you only need to draw 1 to turn on the only processor in the deck that probably NEEDS to process, blight herder, and the only situationally good wasteland strangler, is incorrect unless your meta is literally swimming in aggro and graveyard specific decks. I'm not going to pretend to know your meta, but at the very minimum what your describing is likely unplayable at a serious tournament. 6 is already pushing it, but perhaps necessary when running a full 4 strangler and blight herder, but 8? You're likely verging on filling your openers with dead redundant gravehate.
I feel like drawing multiple exile eggs is fine, they cycle at worst... At best they allow you to curve out your processors, and still cycle!
Perhaps someone knows the proper enablers to processors ratio. My quess would be at least 1:1, preferably 1:1.5 to be consistent (including non-egg cards like bojuka bog). So if you had a full set of Wasteland Strangler and Blight Herder you would want 12 exile enablers minimum for that to be consistent.
My experience has been less needy and I play U/B with Wasteland Strangler, Ulamog's Nullifier, and Blight Herder so my needs are slightly more...intense than other decks. I have found that, if you are U or W and have access to Delay and/or Path/Reality Shift, that 4 Relic + 2-3 other mass exile (Relic, Bog, Ashiok, RIP, Spellbomb) is about right. I'm playing 11 Processors. 7 of which require 2 cards and 1 of which requires only a single card in exile. So 11 Processors and 7 max exile effects (4 Relic & 3 Ashiok which s up from 2 because I didn't think 2 was enough). What's that...like 1:1.5? I also have access to Reality Shift and Delay to help boost the number of cards in exile so I would say that in something like Mono-B you need...8 or 9?
With regards to anti burn sideboard stuff: I like 3 droplet and 1 ruin processor. Droplets do work early game, the single processor can be found with eye in topdeck mode/mid and late game.
Agreed 100%. People just want to bash face, but our deck just isn't good at that. I think wail, thought knot, and the flicker eldrazi are really the most playable cards in the set. Everything else people are trying to jam is super naive.
I think people here are just excited about new cards that synchronize well with what our deck is already doing, that's not naivety, it's optimism.
Trying to jam every card that says "Devoid" or "Eldrazi" out of excitement is the literal definition of naivety in this context. Optimism is thinking "This set can certainly make the deck better." Naivety is "Every card in this set needs to be tested." Its pretty clear what sucks. That said, Smasher is borderline, but I think it fails in that it doesn't actually do anything. All of our creatures are value, and there is no reason Id want to change that for a big dumb beater that can be ignored by a LOT of decks.
I can't really agree with your assessment of Crusher. Which decks can ignore a Haste Trample 5/5 that requires 2 cards in hand to remove? I will say that some decks will be too fast for that to matter and in which case Blight Herder is just better because of the ability to stabilize with several blockers but I think that something like Crusher might be good in the board to speed up our clock against decks like Tron. Cut 2x Ulamog and 1 Sower for 3 Crushers to try and close the game out quicker? I've often found that simply speeding up your clock against Tron, combined with disrupting their mana, is the best plan against Tron. Simply doing 1 or the other isn't usually enough.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The following link is an invitation to join Pucatrade (card trading service though similar to TCGPLayer). If you follow the link then it awards me with tokens to exchange for actual cards. Thanks! https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
On enabler/processor ration, i expect that thought-knot seer might improve this for mono-black, in the same way path to exile, ashiok, nightmare weaver, delay, etc do for 2 color decks. I'd still run a good amount of these in mono black, probably 4 relics and 2 bojuka bog, so that early stranglers still work, but thought-knot seer will make curving into blight herder much easier.
Regardless of all the whacky cards out - I feel this is a decision everyone playing colorless eldrazi is going to have to think about...
Personally I like the 1/1 titan split.
If your playing Kozilek for his card advantage I can respect that and understand. But if your looking at Kozilek for his free counter spell clause, I get the feeling (in these particular builds) its not as powerful as you would like it to be. I just think our deck takes advantage of too many expensive CMC creatures to truly abuse it in comparison to typical modern builds regarding CMC cost. These builds can evolve to utilize it more on the other hand.
I would like to hear other opinions on this though.
I think Kozilek is good for the card advantage all by itself. The counterspell potential is situationally relevant, but will probably be good in most cases. Otherwise you reduce the risk of drawing two of the same titan, have access to some diversity, and its easier for kozilek to get damage in with that menace (lol - menace).
My curve as of right now in mono black (pre-OGW) is:
I can see how this curve can be smoothed out with the new cards - particularly Thought-not Seer, Weeping Wail, Flaying Tendrils.
It looks like the counter ability is very versatile in the deck due to the wide spread of cmc. I would want more at two, three, and four ideally - so wail, tendrils, and seer are my main prospects to include in a BC deck.
So - I think you can discard a land to counter something like Slaughter pact... Can you do the same for Living End?
You can tarnsmute tolaria west to get a land in a similar fashion...
Adding Kozilek would definitely introduce a new angle of deckbuilding. You need to balance lands with black and colorless, balance the curve for counters, and have enough exile fodder. That's a tough nut to crack... But probably worthwhile to those who do...
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Honestly the only thing about Smasher than really excites me is that he's practically unkillable if we shred their hand down with Seer and discard spells, and at that point we're already winning anyway. (EDIT: also notable that he can come down and smack Karn for 5 the same turn, which is nice but maybe not necessary since we have more early bodies to throw at him anyway.) Also, I think Reshaper is a great card to improve our early game but I don't think I want to drop Strangler for him entirely; maybe 2-3 Stranglers and 3-4 Reshapers would work? I think my creature lineup will look something like
I think Endbringer and Kozilek are worth trying out for sure. Endbringer just does so much: pings X/1s to death, draws cards, blanks ***** like Wurmcoil/lone infect creatures/anything wearing a cranial plating if they don't have BB to move it mid-combat, attacks and blocks as if he had vigilance, etc. If he comes down early he can just take games over singlehadndedly. As for Kozi, my though process is as follows: most of the time, Ulamog will be the better choice but many of those times Kozilek will still win us the game by virtue of being a giant beatstick with menace that refills our hand and can potentially counter anything that would stop him (not always, but he does draw us a ton of cards when he lands so there a better chance of us having the right cmc in hand to stop a removal spell). The times when Kozi IS the best choice, Ulamog doesn't do *****- for example, if we're at low life vs burn or twin Ulamog can't save us from bolt-snap-bolt or just more burn to the face unless exiling 2 of their lands prevents them from being able to afford the spells entirely. So, I think that a 1/1 split is better than running 2 Ulamogs because since you can search the right Titan for the situation with Eye anyway you might as well have access to both. If you're only running 1 Titan, I think Ulamog is the better choice because he's harder to remove, has a more immediate effect on the board (even though I think Kozilek has a bigger impact overall) and also happens to give us a way to win though infinite life.
Having 8 plus graveyard hate cards in a deck when you only need to draw 1 to turn on the only processor in the deck that probably NEEDS to process, blight herder, and the only situationally good wasteland strangler, is incorrect unless your meta is literally swimming in aggro and graveyard specific decks. I'm not going to pretend to know your meta, but at the very minimum what your describing is likely unplayable at a serious tournament. 6 is already pushing it, but perhaps necessary when running a full 4 strangler and blight herder, but 8? You're likely verging on filling your openers with dead redundant gravehate. And calling me childish? A low blow that I will not return as I'm a fully grown adult capable of discussing something without resorting to insulting behavior. Please stick to deck relevant conversation.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
God I hope you're right.
I have to say that I think each deck needs 6-8 sources of mass exile in order to regularly activate the Process cost of Eldrazi. I've tried with just 4 Relics, 4 Paths, and 1 Utter End. My processors were dead so often it wasn't funny. This also leads me to why I like Ashiok in addition to Relic even though the emphasis is on wrecking graveyard strategies.
It has been my experience, when an opponent figures out what deck you are playing they will go to great lengths to not put cards in the 'yard to shut down your processors so you don't get value. I've had that problem with Merfolk, Scapeshift, Twin, and Bloom prior to them comboing off. You might say, "Well that was a mistake on their part because they are slowing down their own gameplan." but if you look at the lists, not really. Merfolk can play nothing but creatures, enchantments, and artifacts until they have to interact with you. Same with Scapeshift. The opponent simply didn't crack a single fetch until he was ready to go off and then it was too late. Same thing with Twin. Just hold all your counters and don't crack a fetch until you are ready to make the combo happen with plenty of counterspell back up. Our early game is fairly...dismal. (In these match ups Matter Reshaper far out values Strangler). Casting a 4/5 Herder without processing on turn 4 only to have it remanded hurts when they turn around and can just go off without interruption or interaction. Certain decks can absolutely slow roll their plays to shut down our exile effects in order to shut down our game plan and speed. Attacking for 7 a turn with Herder + tokens is 3 turn game. Herder alone is a 5 turn game. When it gets Remanded and that's the first card in their 'yard, much less exile, your Herder is STILL just a vanilla 4/5 on a 5 turn clock starting on turn 6...
I like the B/U deck with Ashiok because I feel like it makes the combo matchup and match ups against decks like Tron easier because you can Delay and Nullifier their real threats. And those matchups don't have to put anything, or enough things, into the graveyard to enact their plan. Having Ashiok to fill the 'yard means that I am prepared once they get into range for their combo.
TL;DR I don't think 4 Relics and 4 Path are enough to enable processors. It really needs to be more like 4 Relics, 2 Claws/Spellbombs, etc. and 4 Path to make them really tick.
More on topic though, I really like the idea of running Languish over Damnation, et al. I was trying to think of creatures it misses, that I care about, and the only ones I could come up with are the Titans but ya know...Tron and Amulet Bloom don't play enough creatures to want the sweeper anyway.
Also, I think its right to play at LEAST the 1-of All is Dust somewhere in the 75 especially if you play on MTGO. There are a lot of random rogue decks on there and some of them lean pretty heavily on non-creature permanents like planeswalkers, enchantments, gods, and artifacts. All of which All is Dust handles pretty efficiently. Its served me well on a few occasions. Not often enough to want more than 1 but certainly enough to justify a spot since it hits ALL colored permanents. There are times where I desperately wish I had a sweeper though and Languish is the perfect answer. I'm thinking 2 Languish, 1 All is Dust in the side?
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
I feel like drawing multiple exile eggs is fine, they cycle at worst... At best they allow you to curve out your processors, and still cycle!
Perhaps someone knows the proper enablers to processors ratio. My quess would be at least 1:1, preferably 1:1.5 to be consistent (including non-egg cards like bojuka bog). So if you had a full set of Wasteland Strangler and Blight Herder you would want 12 exile enablers minimum for that to be consistent.
By My count:
4x Relic of Progenitus
2-3x Scrabbling Claws
1-2x Warping Wail
1-2x Flaying Tendrils
1-3x Surgical Extraction
should do it just fine
Thoughts?
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
One thing that i have not got my head around yet is: What are the Ratchet Bombs for?
There are some serious chips on shoulders in this thread.
Graveyard hate is one of the primary strengths that this deck has that other midrange decks do not have access to. You shut down all snapcaster decks, graveyard based combos, tarmogoyfs, and you do that while also cantripping and setting up powerful value creatures. Wasteland Strangler has been just fine against a host of decks, but if you don't like him no one is forcing you or anyone else to run him.
Token strategies, affinity. Our biggest issue is decks going really wide, this is a catch all to help with that problem.
Perhaps the 3 Seer, 3 Map, 2 Mind Stone split would be better then? I've still increased the number of threats by 3 and hand disruption by 1. And only reduced the ramp from my original list by 1 card. This would also give me 11 colorless sources in addition to the Scion tokens.
Or I could -1 Bojuka Bog, +1 Tectonic Edge. Recently it has been less impactful for me. Also it CIPT has mattered on occasion. And now that I'm replacing Thoughtseize with an exile effect, it only strengthens my desire to replace it. I don't want to reduce the number of Urborg. This may also strengthen my land matters matchups.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Could be a better configuration - I'm not on the mind stone plan at all so I can't really comment on it. I'm going to look at adding some painlands in place of basics to get those last 4 colorless slots in. With Urborg out they rarely do damage anyway. Lots and lots to test going forward.
Deck looks really good, i'll try something close to this ( on my MB version ).
Don't u think 3 Dismember is a little too much with all this fast aggro deck around ?
Btw, i think Thought-Knot Seer is the only sure add for the midrange shell, card is just really good, i'm pretty satisfied with him till now, u all should try
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
If your playing Kozilek for his card advantage I can respect that and understand. But if your looking at Kozilek for his free counter spell clause, I get the feeling (in these particular builds) its not as powerful as you would like it to be. I just think our deck takes advantage of too many expensive CMC creatures to truly abuse it in comparison to typical modern builds regarding CMC cost. These builds can evolve to utilize it more on the other hand.
I would like to hear other opinions on this though.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Trying to jam every card that says "Devoid" or "Eldrazi" out of excitement is the literal definition of naivety in this context. Optimism is thinking "This set can certainly make the deck better." Naivety is "Every card in this set needs to be tested." Its pretty clear what sucks. That said, Smasher is borderline, but I think it fails in that it doesn't actually do anything. All of our creatures are value, and there is no reason Id want to change that for a big dumb beater that can be ignored by a LOT of decks.
Well, Burn should be enought reason for u to low down the number of Dismember right, or not ?
How's double B mana cards for u ? I do like Bile Blight and Victim of Night, also Disfigure and Darkblast against (Affinity).
Have to say that i didn't test Spatial Contortion, could be good
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
Take a look at all succesful decklists from mtgtop8, ALL of them use 8+ graveyard hate piece (except for white ones because they have path to exile). You graveyard hate either cantrip (relic of progenitus, scrabbling claws and nihil spellbomb) or are part of the land base (bojuka bog), so including them has very low opportunity cost. If you don't like having too much you can play the white deck, but saying it is unplayable is widely false as proven by the success of the deck using them.
Writing thing like i need my brain checked or presuming i don't play the deck at all because we disagree on card choice isn't very adult. If you're being rude you shouldn't expect any other reaction from my part.
U should try Thought-Knot Seer, card is really good, also a split of 2 stanglers and 2 skites maybe, and i'm not really a fan of All is Dust main deck
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
My experience has been less needy and I play U/B with Wasteland Strangler, Ulamog's Nullifier, and Blight Herder so my needs are slightly more...intense than other decks. I have found that, if you are U or W and have access to Delay and/or Path/Reality Shift, that 4 Relic + 2-3 other mass exile (Relic, Bog, Ashiok, RIP, Spellbomb) is about right. I'm playing 11 Processors. 7 of which require 2 cards and 1 of which requires only a single card in exile. So 11 Processors and 7 max exile effects (4 Relic & 3 Ashiok which s up from 2 because I didn't think 2 was enough). What's that...like 1:1.5? I also have access to Reality Shift and Delay to help boost the number of cards in exile so I would say that in something like Mono-B you need...8 or 9?
I can't really agree with your assessment of Crusher. Which decks can ignore a Haste Trample 5/5 that requires 2 cards in hand to remove? I will say that some decks will be too fast for that to matter and in which case Blight Herder is just better because of the ability to stabilize with several blockers but I think that something like Crusher might be good in the board to speed up our clock against decks like Tron. Cut 2x Ulamog and 1 Sower for 3 Crushers to try and close the game out quicker? I've often found that simply speeding up your clock against Tron, combined with disrupting their mana, is the best plan against Tron. Simply doing 1 or the other isn't usually enough.
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
Another fun thing, it can act as extra spellskites against twin. Tap out with less worries
TIL! Absolutely never thought about it like that - only gets you an extra turn, but still.
I think Kozilek is good for the card advantage all by itself. The counterspell potential is situationally relevant, but will probably be good in most cases. Otherwise you reduce the risk of drawing two of the same titan, have access to some diversity, and its easier for kozilek to get damage in with that menace (lol - menace).
My curve as of right now in mono black (pre-OGW) is:
1 - 18 cards
2 - 2 cards
3 - 5 cards
4 - 0 cards
5 - 4 cards
6 - 4 cards
7 - 1 card
10- 1 card
I can see how this curve can be smoothed out with the new cards - particularly Thought-not Seer, Weeping Wail, Flaying Tendrils.
It looks like the counter ability is very versatile in the deck due to the wide spread of cmc. I would want more at two, three, and four ideally - so wail, tendrils, and seer are my main prospects to include in a BC deck.
So - I think you can discard a land to counter something like Slaughter pact... Can you do the same for Living End?
You can tarnsmute tolaria west to get a land in a similar fashion...
Adding Kozilek would definitely introduce a new angle of deckbuilding. You need to balance lands with black and colorless, balance the curve for counters, and have enough exile fodder. That's a tough nut to crack... But probably worthwhile to those who do...
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
3x Reshaper
2x Strangler
3x Seer
4x Herder
3-4x Sower
0-1x Endbringer
1x Ulamog
0-1x Kozilek
I think Endbringer and Kozilek are worth trying out for sure. Endbringer just does so much: pings X/1s to death, draws cards, blanks ***** like Wurmcoil/lone infect creatures/anything wearing a cranial plating if they don't have BB to move it mid-combat, attacks and blocks as if he had vigilance, etc. If he comes down early he can just take games over singlehadndedly. As for Kozi, my though process is as follows: most of the time, Ulamog will be the better choice but many of those times Kozilek will still win us the game by virtue of being a giant beatstick with menace that refills our hand and can potentially counter anything that would stop him (not always, but he does draw us a ton of cards when he lands so there a better chance of us having the right cmc in hand to stop a removal spell). The times when Kozi IS the best choice, Ulamog doesn't do *****- for example, if we're at low life vs burn or twin Ulamog can't save us from bolt-snap-bolt or just more burn to the face unless exiling 2 of their lands prevents them from being able to afford the spells entirely. So, I think that a 1/1 split is better than running 2 Ulamogs because since you can search the right Titan for the situation with Eye anyway you might as well have access to both. If you're only running 1 Titan, I think Ulamog is the better choice because he's harder to remove, has a more immediate effect on the board (even though I think Kozilek has a bigger impact overall) and also happens to give us a way to win though infinite life.