Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
A land that is barely discussed and helps well is Tendo Ice Bridge.
It's pretty difficult to have both colorless and black mana in the first turns (we sometimes have Eye of Ugin + black sources, or colorless sources missing black), the Bridge fixes awkward mulligans quite well. For now the land isn't played because we don't need to focus on playing the new Eldrazi, but if they appear to be staples, it may cut some swamps.
I think Tendo is brilliant in Mono-black. Great call.
I think the Blood Moon fear isn't too relevant: the card is strong against land strategies, it won't change. From here, I don't see why 4+ Swamps would be necessary to cast the few black spells we got. Expedition Map already solves the problem, and we can play a Wastes without changing the consistency of the deck, really. I tend to agree with Mr Baugh who piloted the deck during the last SCG, and said Moon wasn't a problem really, since he cast his spells anyway at some point. But the new <>olorless spells may change that thought process and the Wastes be a necessary evil.
I disagree for the decks that try to jam too many of the new Colorless-required Eldrazi. I think people are still underestimating blood moon because it has not traditionally been good against us. But we have never needed to actually make colorless for the deck to function before, either. Your sample build is pretty light on colorless-required cards, however, and I think a good compromise that would not require something silly like running a singleton wastes.
I agree with jwelt, though, I think 4 warping wail main board is too many, and would run a 2/2 split with Flaying Tendrils.
Im not sure, do we really want to cut down on Thoughtseize?
I actually think having 4 Inquisition, 2 Thoughtseize, 4 Thought-Knot Seer is a nice plan.
Regarding Tendo Ice-Bridge => as much as i like the card, isn't a painland just better? I mean you could just play Underground River or some B-Pain else, and allways have B as well as <> as well as maybe the second (read:"third") color you are playing.
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The great Eldrazi Overlords will return to the Modern World.
Regarding Tendo Ice-Bridge => as much as i like the card, isn't a painland just better? I mean you could just play Underground River or some B-Pain else, and allways have B as well as <> as well as maybe the second (read:"third") color you are playing.
A painland is painful, which doesn't help with aggro MUs that are already tough at times. As long as you want to stay mono-Black, the bridge saves you from pings and actually fits early game before you get Urborg and still can play your lonely Strangler or IoK in hand. In this slot, a Swamp in your opening hand wouldn't allow you to play <> spells, so a Painland is indeed also better than the Swamp. If your build is BW, Bridge is worse than a Painland. For monoblack though, I think the Bridge is the perfect option.
I agree with jwelt, though, I think 4 warping wail main board is too many, and would run a 2/2 split with Flaying Tendrils.
I agree with him too, but I don't think I would run Tendrils MD because we play Stranglers and Herders' tokens. It's a somewhat underwhelming play and should remain in the sideboard, since it's not even good against Zoo, Wilt-Leaf Liege Aggro, and such. Playing Thoughtseize as discard #9-10 as suggested above, or more spot removal spells seems better to me.
This is all tweaking actually
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Its 1 life for the possibility of having black again. Lets say you play T1 Inquisition, then turn 3 you want to play dismember, thats less pain than the phyrexian mana. I think a painland is better even if you are on B<>. You are not forced to use it but you can, thats a huge difference.
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I think Tendo Ice Bridge might even be ok in the BW and BR versions. Imagine you're building a mana base for BW or BR and you want to play like 8+ <> cards. People have been saying this is going to be extremely hard, and all the decks of that type which have been posted, as far as I can tell, have extremely ambitious mana bases with like 12 sources of the splash color, which is horrible. Ice Bridge can help:
You only get to play 4 of the on-color painlands and 4 of the on-color filterlands, and not more than 3-4 colorless utility lands like Ghost Quarter. You're going to need more than 12 <> sources. But you can't just run more colorless utility lands, because with the 9 engine lands (4 Temple, 3 Eye, 2 Urborg), you don't have enough sources for your splash color. So you need another tri-land. Ice Bridge isn't great in that role, but I think it's the best that exists in the format.
Imagine something like
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Fetid Heath
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Tendo Ice Bridge
3 Ghost Quarter
You're gonna be pretty cold to Blood Moon, but at least you can really reliably cast everything.
I'm going to be trying out 4x Caves of Koilos in my mono black build as just straight swamp replacers - that brings me to 13 Colorless sources. Sounds pretty good, even if I'm not trying to go deep on the new colorless cards. There's very little downside - especially alongside Urborg which allows your pain lands to start painlessly tapping for black.
I'm going to be trying out 4x Caves of Koilos in my mono black build as just straight swamp replacers - that brings me to 13 Colorless sources. Sounds pretty good, even if I'm not trying to go deep on the new colorless cards. There's very little downside - especially alongside Urborg which allows your pain lands to start painlessly tapping for black.
Blood Moon and your MonoBlack with 0 access to Enchantment removal
I'm going to be trying out 4x Caves of Koilos in my mono black build as just straight swamp replacers - that brings me to 13 Colorless sources. Sounds pretty good, even if I'm not trying to go deep on the new colorless cards. There's very little downside - especially alongside Urborg which allows your pain lands to start painlessly tapping for black.
Blood Moon and your MonoBlack with 0 access to Enchantment removal
Ghost quarter myself in response and I still have 6 Swamps in the deck. Bloodmoon wasn't going to feel great even without caves of Koilos, but it's fine because if it's not backed up with pressure we still have inevitability.
And good luck in magic christmas land then friend, the rest of us will be actually testing instead of talking.
This is childish. I've been playing the deck (mono-b, b/w and b/g) since the same week it first won a league 5-0, and i play 2 to 4 tournaments a week at different LGS in my area (with good results). My "talking" comes from experience, and i would presume your "talking" does as well. If we all stopped "talking" then there would be no forums at all, right?
It is perfectly possible that we both have different perspective about wasteland strangler for reasons other than not playing the deck. Strangler is consistent in my deck. I built the deck so that it is, and yes playing 8+ graveyard hate cards is an integral part of the deck's strategy. If it was magical christmas people would stop playing it and i still see most list with 3-4 copies main.
I agree with jwelt, though, I think 4 warping wail main board is too many, and would run a 2/2 split with Flaying Tendrils.
I agree with him too, but I don't think I would run Tendrils MD because we play Stranglers and Herders' tokens. It's a somewhat underwhelming play and should remain in the sideboard, since it's not even good against Zoo, Wilt-Leaf Liege Aggro, and such. Playing Thoughtseize as discard #9-10 as suggested above, or more spot removal spells seems better to me.
This is all tweaking actually
You can sac your scion tokens to float mana, then cast the board wipe (you can even use one to help cast the Tendrils itself). It shouldnt be a big deal to run both. You can even follow up with a strangler to give something -5/-5 and exile it
Also, if you have a blight herder on the field, you are mostly in control of the board anyway...
Having MD answers to rough matchups is not a bad call, especially as a 1-2 of. Agree - just tweaking. It won't always be right to include tendrils MD, but I like having access to 1 copy at least with 1 in the board.
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I'm going to be trying out 4x Caves of Koilos in my mono black build as just straight swamp replacers - that brings me to 13 Colorless sources. Sounds pretty good, even if I'm not trying to go deep on the new colorless cards. There's very little downside - especially alongside Urborg which allows your pain lands to start painlessly tapping for black.
But more seriously - I don't have any desire for the splash of another color, including only 4 sources of that other color isn't enough to splash with at all. Also, I'm of the opinion that GQ + Surgical is much better than crumble to dust.
Its 1 life for the possibility of having black again. Lets say you play T1 Inquisition, then turn 3 you want to play dismember, thats less pain than the phyrexian mana
You pay 1 for IoK and the 1 for any other black spell. So it's 2 life lost. No gain in that scenario.
I don't think another colour is easily splashable if we play <> spells. Looks super risky.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
[quote from="Dimmez »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/651774-bx-eldrazi-processors?comment=1691"][quote from="Niallplaysmagic »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/651774-bx-eldrazi-processors?comment=1689"]But I don't own those cards!
But more seriously - I don't have any desire for the splash of another color, including only 4 sources of that other color isn't enough to splash with at all. Also, I'm of the opinion that GQ + Surgical is much better than crumble to dust.
I mean, Caves of Koilos doesnt offer anything compared to the UB or GB lands which would allow you to pay for the pacts if you are very lucky and get two of them into play. At least they have additional upsides compared to Caves.
</blockquote></blockquote>
A good point(but I have a feeling I don't need to worry about paying for pacts for too much longer.)
-Yes, Thanks Dimmez I forgot Sower+Fecht them cut 2 Mire, don't need C in this list.
-I think that T.Mind is good pair Decay. In fight our creatures are bigger and vs lowers gets Strangler. For quick mind only P.Exile and Remand saves for target (also can pick problematic Blood Moon)
-Any ideas SB vs Affity (Mind-Dust is uselles there) and RDW.
If you play green you have one of the best cards against affinity- Nature's Claim
Against RDW I have no idea, I'm currently researching that topic right now. 2-3 Spellskite in the 75. with Feed the Clan or Rest for the weary. If you play white I just found Perimeter Captain which seems to fill the role nicely.
Nature's claim is nowhere near one of the best cards vs affinity.
With regards to anti burn sideboard stuff: I like 3 droplet and 1 ruin processor. Droplets do work early game, the single processor can be found with eye in topdeck mode/mid and late game.
Agreed 100%. People just want to bash face, but our deck just isn't good at that. I think wail, thought knot, and the flicker eldrazi are really the most playable cards in the set. Everything else people are trying to jam is super naive.
Cross-post from the BW thread, hoping for more perspective from other players:
Strangler feels inconsistent to me and personally I don't like it. One of the bad matchups for me has been monocolor fast aggro (Merfolk, Elves), where I want him to shine, but getting all the pieces in the right places in time for Strangler to matter feels too conditional. GW-type builds are easier due to the fetches but Strangler is still unreliable for me--even with 4x Relic, 2x Claws, and I had 2x Extraction as well in my main.
RG Tron is an unwinnable nightmare, full stop.
Burn is very hard and I have pretty much ceded G1 each time I've played it; if I miss Rest for the Weary out of the board I'm also unlikely to win G2/3.
Bogles is unwinnable G1 unless I get lucky with my opening discard spell.
So here's what I am thinking I will try with the currently-available tools. I am trying to develop a sound base to build from post-Oath, though maybe I will have to change so much that this will become just another trashed experiment. This is what I came up with and I would greatly appreciate feedback from the forum.
The board now has 7 slots for Tron with a Map-for-GQ then Extraction plan, and Stony Silence to stall them. Burn and Bogles are greatly improved G1 with maindeck Spellskite. One mainboard sweeper (though slow) and 3 in the side for fast aggro, with Skite doing blocking duty (on curve to replace Strangler) in place of the conditional removal.
I had originally thought about including 2x GQ in the side instead of the Maps, but I think tutoring for GQ is only a little slower, and this way I can also get my Plains to fight Blood Moon.
All right guys, let me have it.
[EDIT]: Clearly the plan is stall the early game and then overwhelm mid-to-late, which is why my Tron match is so very bad. Hopefully this will help, though I'm not sure that it will be enough.
With regards to anti burn sideboard stuff: I like 3 droplet and 1 ruin processor. Droplets do work early game, the single processor can be found with eye in topdeck mode/mid and late game.
Agreed 100%. People just want to bash face, but our deck just isn't good at that. I think wail, thought knot, and the flicker eldrazi are really the most playable cards in the set. Everything else people are trying to jam is super naive.
I think people here are just excited about new cards that synchronize well with what our deck is already doing, that's not naivety, it's optimism.
I really like the look of 4 Seer as it makes the deck very proactive. If I run 4 Thought-Knot Seer, my list will resemble something like this. I'll try it without Mind Stone for now. It's possible that with the gap filled between Herder and Strangler that the extra 2-3 pieces of ramp won't be needed. Otherwise I'll go to 3 Seer, 3 Map, 2 Stone.
I really like the look of 4 Seer as it makes the deck very proactive. If I run 4 Thought-Knot Seer, my list will resemble something like this. I'll try it without Mind Stone for now. It's possible that with the gap filled between Herder and Strangler that the extra 2-3 pieces of ramp won't be needed. Otherwise I'll go to 3 Seer, 3 Map, 2 Stone.
Looks solid - I do think though that maybe one of those Urborgs should be an additional colorless source - as is you only have 9 available, I'll be trying Sea Gate Wreckage in that spot.
My build will fall somewhere close this, with some other numbers slightly tuned. I love the new black sweeper as a 1 of in the main, I'll probably run it instead of one of the slaughter pacts.
Regardless of all the whacky cards out - I feel this is a decision everyone playing colorless eldrazi is going to have to think about...
Personally I like the 1/1 titan split.
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Also misses splinter twin, Hive Mind
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
3B
Devoid
Target opponent exiles 2 cards from his/her ahnd and loses 2 life.
You may be quite right for both propositions !
I think Tendo is brilliant in Mono-black. Great call.
I disagree for the decks that try to jam too many of the new Colorless-required Eldrazi. I think people are still underestimating blood moon because it has not traditionally been good against us. But we have never needed to actually make colorless for the deck to function before, either. Your sample build is pretty light on colorless-required cards, however, and I think a good compromise that would not require something silly like running a singleton wastes.
I agree with jwelt, though, I think 4 warping wail main board is too many, and would run a 2/2 split with Flaying Tendrils.
I actually think having 4 Inquisition, 2 Thoughtseize, 4 Thought-Knot Seer is a nice plan.
Regarding Tendo Ice-Bridge => as much as i like the card, isn't a painland just better? I mean you could just play Underground River or some B-Pain else, and allways have B as well as <> as well as maybe the second (read:"third") color you are playing.
Right, enchantments are a thing... I retract my statement.
A painland is painful, which doesn't help with aggro MUs that are already tough at times. As long as you want to stay mono-Black, the bridge saves you from pings and actually fits early game before you get Urborg and still can play your lonely Strangler or IoK in hand. In this slot, a Swamp in your opening hand wouldn't allow you to play <> spells, so a Painland is indeed also better than the Swamp. If your build is BW, Bridge is worse than a Painland. For monoblack though, I think the Bridge is the perfect option.
I agree with him too, but I don't think I would run Tendrils MD because we play Stranglers and Herders' tokens. It's a somewhat underwhelming play and should remain in the sideboard, since it's not even good against Zoo, Wilt-Leaf Liege Aggro, and such. Playing Thoughtseize as discard #9-10 as suggested above, or more spot removal spells seems better to me.
This is all tweaking actually
You only get to play 4 of the on-color painlands and 4 of the on-color filterlands, and not more than 3-4 colorless utility lands like Ghost Quarter. You're going to need more than 12 <> sources. But you can't just run more colorless utility lands, because with the 9 engine lands (4 Temple, 3 Eye, 2 Urborg), you don't have enough sources for your splash color. So you need another tri-land. Ice Bridge isn't great in that role, but I think it's the best that exists in the format.
Imagine something like
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Fetid Heath
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Tendo Ice Bridge
3 Ghost Quarter
You're gonna be pretty cold to Blood Moon, but at least you can really reliably cast everything.
Blood Moon and your MonoBlack with 0 access to Enchantment removal
Modern: Eldrazi CB,
Ghost quarter myself in response and I still have 6 Swamps in the deck. Bloodmoon wasn't going to feel great even without caves of Koilos, but it's fine because if it's not backed up with pressure we still have inevitability.
This is childish. I've been playing the deck (mono-b, b/w and b/g) since the same week it first won a league 5-0, and i play 2 to 4 tournaments a week at different LGS in my area (with good results). My "talking" comes from experience, and i would presume your "talking" does as well. If we all stopped "talking" then there would be no forums at all, right?
It is perfectly possible that we both have different perspective about wasteland strangler for reasons other than not playing the deck. Strangler is consistent in my deck. I built the deck so that it is, and yes playing 8+ graveyard hate cards is an integral part of the deck's strategy. If it was magical christmas people would stop playing it and i still see most list with 3-4 copies main.
You can sac your scion tokens to float mana, then cast the board wipe (you can even use one to help cast the Tendrils itself). It shouldnt be a big deal to run both. You can even follow up with a strangler to give something -5/-5 and exile it
Also, if you have a blight herder on the field, you are mostly in control of the board anyway...
Having MD answers to rough matchups is not a bad call, especially as a 1-2 of. Agree - just tweaking. It won't always be right to include tendrils MD, but I like having access to 1 copy at least with 1 in the board.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
But I don't own those cards!
But more seriously - I don't have any desire for the splash of another color, including only 4 sources of that other color isn't enough to splash with at all. Also, I'm of the opinion that GQ + Surgical is much better than crumble to dust.
You pay 1 for IoK and the 1 for any other black spell. So it's 2 life lost. No gain in that scenario.
I don't think another colour is easily splashable if we play <> spells. Looks super risky.
A good point(but I have a feeling I don't need to worry about paying for pacts for too much longer.)
Nature's claim is nowhere near one of the best cards vs affinity.
Agreed 100%. People just want to bash face, but our deck just isn't good at that. I think wail, thought knot, and the flicker eldrazi are really the most playable cards in the set. Everything else people are trying to jam is super naive.
Strangler feels inconsistent to me and personally I don't like it. One of the bad matchups for me has been monocolor fast aggro (Merfolk, Elves), where I want him to shine, but getting all the pieces in the right places in time for Strangler to matter feels too conditional. GW-type builds are easier due to the fetches but Strangler is still unreliable for me--even with 4x Relic, 2x Claws, and I had 2x Extraction as well in my main.
RG Tron is an unwinnable nightmare, full stop.
Burn is very hard and I have pretty much ceded G1 each time I've played it; if I miss Rest for the Weary out of the board I'm also unlikely to win G2/3.
Bogles is unwinnable G1 unless I get lucky with my opening discard spell.
So here's what I am thinking I will try with the currently-available tools. I am trying to develop a sound base to build from post-Oath, though maybe I will have to change so much that this will become just another trashed experiment. This is what I came up with and I would greatly appreciate feedback from the forum.
2x Caves of Koilos
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
2x Ghost Quarter
3x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
1x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of the Archangel
Creature (13)
4x Blight Herder
4x Oblivion Sower
3x Spellskite
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Wasteland Strangler
2x Go for the Throat
4x Path to Exile
1x Surgical Extraction
Sorcery (10)
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
2x Thoughtseize
1x All is Dust
Artifact (6)
4x Relic of Progenitus
2x Scrabbling Claws
2x Damnation
2x Disenchant
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Expedition Map
3x Rest for the Weary
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Stony Silence
I had originally thought about including 2x GQ in the side instead of the Maps, but I think tutoring for GQ is only a little slower, and this way I can also get my Plains to fight Blood Moon.
All right guys, let me have it.
[EDIT]: Clearly the plan is stall the early game and then overwhelm mid-to-late, which is why my Tron match is so very bad. Hopefully this will help, though I'm not sure that it will be enough.
Colorless does not count towards "colors of mana."
I think people here are just excited about new cards that synchronize well with what our deck is already doing, that's not naivety, it's optimism.
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Blight Herder
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Wasteland Strangler
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Instant (5)
3 Dismember
2 Slaughter Pact
Sorcery (4)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
Artifact (10)
4 Expedition Map
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Scrabbling Claws
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
6 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Disfigure
3 Surgical Extraction
2 All is Dust
2 Duress
2 Memoricide
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Looks solid - I do think though that maybe one of those Urborgs should be an additional colorless source - as is you only have 9 available, I'll be trying Sea Gate Wreckage in that spot.
My build will fall somewhere close this, with some other numbers slightly tuned. I love the new black sweeper as a 1 of in the main, I'll probably run it instead of one of the slaughter pacts.
1x Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger / 1x Kozilek, the great distortion
vs
2x Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger
vs
1x (titan) / 1x (other)
Regardless of all the whacky cards out - I feel this is a decision everyone playing colorless eldrazi is going to have to think about...
Personally I like the 1/1 titan split.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague