master reshaper is going for nearly 10 usd a piece. Not sure if they are predicting a lot of demand for it or what. It's a rare so I wouldn't think it would be worth 10 usd.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
master reshaper is going for nearly 10 usd a piece. Not sure if they are predicting a lot of demand for it or what. It's a rare so I wouldn't think it would be worth 10 usd.
master reshaper is going for nearly 10 usd a piece. Not sure if they are predicting a lot of demand for it or what. It's a rare so I wouldn't think it would be worth 10 usd.
Compared to other sets, this has waaaaaay too much value in the rares and mythics. I haven't seen the box value calculations yet, but I think it's super far over. I expect prices on everything that doesn't pan out to be in a tiered standard deck to drop like a rock.
So this is what I'm running with right now, its really been fun / consistent and I'm very very much enjoying playing it. But I'm really having trouble with a "catch all" type sideboard. My FNM is full of a few consistent decks but alot of people who do random brews. Cards I've considered
Feed the Clan, Tectonic Edge, Pithing Needle, Malestrom Pulse, Torpor Orb, Batterskull, Memoricide/Cranial Extraction, Surgical Extraction, Spreading Algee, Ruin Processor, Ratchet Bomb, Choke
And well I knows its annoying when people do this but I could really use help with the whole sideboard thing because I'm fairly inexperienced with them.
On Ashiok - Yes, Ashiok represents a later game threat, but Ashiok does not either cantrip OR hose graveyard strategies. In my opinion the exile enabling is the least important part of the exile enablers
I don't agree. I have read numerous posts with people complaining about missing with processors because they can't get and keep enough cards in exile. When I was testing blue I did not have this issue at all. I am currently testing BWC and while I have changed my play to deal with it, I do have to play tighter to keep the exile zone populated.
Processor Matters decks are not control decks. They are 100% midrange decks. Their goal is to use disruption to get to the mid game and crush the opponent under the weight of their big threats.
In general I agree, though if I were to compare them to an established deck I would say that Processor matters decks are more in The Rock style of deck. The accel, control elements (especially attached to creatures), and midrange fatties are really similar to The Rock decks of the past.
As far as splitting up threads, I think that someone should keep in contact with ktkenshin (he usually has a thread about the proposed changes to the line up) and when he is ready to move the deck out of this forum the new thread should be specific to colors that are getting the best numbers. If that is mono-black then this thread can just move, and from that point on it will be more focused. If not then make a thread or move the appropriate existing one. I think it is way too early in this deck's life, and OGW is going to cause a lot of shift and new voices to the archetype threads.
So this is what I'm running with right now, its really been fun / consistent and I'm very very much enjoying playing it. But I'm really having trouble with a "catch all" type sideboard. My FNM is full of a few consistent decks but alot of people who do random brews. Cards I've considered
Feed the Clan, Tectonic Edge, Pithing Needle, Malestrom Pulse, Torpor Orb, Batterskull, Memoricide/Cranial Extraction, Surgical Extraction, Spreading Algee, Ruin Processor, Ratchet Bomb, Choke
And well I knows its annoying when people do this but I could really use help with the whole sideboard thing because I'm fairly inexperienced with them.
I tried out black red for a while, but man I just miss path way too much. Frankly, being probably the best removal spell in modern in addition to having some synergy with our deck makes it a must include to me. I've been working on a mana base that gives me greater consistency, Please take note of the modifications I've made, specifically using painlands and filter lands as tri lands in our deck. My mana has been FAR better in this version of the deck. I have yet to actually have a spell rot in my hand for mana reasons in about 8ish matches.
The one thing I need help with is my sideboard. I'm mostly trying to prevent myself from losing to fast aggro decks and blood moon, but man I've basically punted my tron matchup. How are you guys beating tron in Black White colors?
On Ashiok - Yes, Ashiok represents a later game threat, but Ashiok does not either cantrip OR hose graveyard strategies. In my opinion the exile enabling is the least important part of the exile enablers
I don't agree. I have read numerous posts with people complaining about missing with processors because they can't get and keep enough cards in exile. When I was testing blue I did not have this issue at all. I am currently testing BWC and while I have changed my play to deal with it, I do have to play tighter to keep the exile zone populated.
I never said Ashiok was bad at enabling processors, I said she doesn't cantrip or hose graveyards, two things that we need just as much if not more than processing.
I tried out black red for a while, but man I just miss path way too much. Frankly, being probably the best removal spell in modern in addition to having some synergy with our deck makes it a must include to me.
This is the only reason i would want to go white, Lingering is a stall them plan which I'm not too keen on, Path adds to the mix with its exile.
I find it funny people say wasteland strangler should go, and other people say we struggle vs aggro. Seems weird to me to cut our single best card vs fast decks... It might be variance but i rarely find myself not casting strangler for value!
Also i can appreciate value but matter reshaper seems like a 2 mana phyrexian rager in our deck most of the time. Not bad, but still i'm not super excited about it or anything...
I tried out black red for a while, but man I just miss path way too much. Frankly, being probably the best removal spell in modern in addition to having some synergy with our deck makes it a must include to me. I've been working on a mana base that gives me greater consistency, Please take note of the modifications I've made, specifically using painlands and filter lands as tri lands in our deck. My mana has been FAR better in this version of the deck. I have yet to actually have a spell rot in my hand for mana reasons in about 8ish matches.
The one thing I need help with is my sideboard. I'm mostly trying to prevent myself from losing to fast aggro decks and blood moon, but man I've basically punted my tron matchup. How are you guys beating tron in Black White colors?
Yes, I am thinking Fetid Heath might be a real thing after Oath, though I am sure it will screw up the T1 disruption plays. I don't like only 10 sources for T1 B after my earlier experiences with a low-color count build. I only own one Heath but I will try it out.
Lingering Souls is great at stalling creature decks. No idea what the odds of T3 W are in a build that uses Heaths, but only 8 primary sources makes me nervous.
I cannot beat Tron in BWC. Tron is going to make me change my whole deck/sideboard or make me find a new one, because it is inescapable right now. I have 2 Ghost Quarter main and 2 Surgical Extraction main, thinking about adding 2 of each to the board plus some Maps which right now I don't use.
Getting rid of Strangler for Reshaper will definitely take some pressure off the need to exile cards early and will therefore open up the early game a lot. However this weakens our game vs. GY decks while hopefully strengthening it against some of the tougher match ups like Burn and other removal-intensive builds.
This is the only reason i would want to go white, Lingering is a stall them plan which I'm not too keen on, Path adds to the mix with its exile.
Souls stalls like a mofo. But let's not forget Affinity which Spirit tokens are outstanding against. Infect could be maybe managed with high land destruction and creature removal counts.
I find it funny people say wasteland strangler should go, and other people say we struggle vs aggro. Seems weird to me to cut our single best card vs fast decks... It might be variance but i rarely find myself not casting strangler for value!
Wasteland Strangler is more of a tempo card, and most of the time it's just blocking and getting no value for me anyway. Matter Reshaper is coming down and blocking in the same way that wasteland does, but it's always at a bare bare minumum drawing you a card when it dies, and at best ramping you or replacing itself. It just contributes better to the midrange plan. I also dislike taking potential process targets away from my blight herders with the strangler. With that said, a mix like 3 Matter 1 Wasteland may be correct.
I find it funny people say wasteland strangler should go, and other people say we struggle vs aggro. Seems weird to me to cut our single best card vs fast decks... It might be variance but i rarely find myself not casting strangler for value!
Wasteland Strangler is more of a tempo card, and most of the time it's just blocking and getting no value for me anyway. Matter Reshaper is coming down and blocking in the same way that wasteland does, but it's always at a bare bare minumum drawing you a card when it dies, and at best ramping you or replacing itself. It just contributes better to the midrange plan. I also dislike taking potential process targets away from my blight herders with the strangler. With that said, a mix like 3 Matter 1 Wasteland may be correct.
The way i see it wasteland strangler is this deck's lightning bolt on legs. Most of the time bolt kills something but when it doesn't it goes to the face. Strangler will kill stuff often but when it doesn't it is still a 3/2 for 2, which is just okay.
I don't find it fair to confine strangler as a "tempo" card because like bolt it can take many roles. Sure when strangler doesn't have any target matter reshaper will be better. But i don't find it safe to cut any number of strangler because a lot of the time you need it to survive until your end game.
Also in a lot of the matchups where strangler doesn't shine, your opponent will be ignoring your stuff and do their linear thing. Reshaper has then the chance of just never dying and being just as bad a strangler.
The one thing I need help with is my sideboard. I'm mostly trying to prevent myself from losing to fast aggro decks and blood moon, but man I've basically punted my tron matchup. How are you guys beating tron in Black White colors?
Well, ur not using Wasteland Strangler and Lingering Souls, so, u will lose ALOT more to aggro ... And u should add some Ghost Quarter to ur main.
There are some cool videos of the BW version on the BW thread, the guy playing make alot of misplays, but u can see the deck running.
Changing topic i 4-0'd again at my LGS today. Beat 2 burn decks, mill and suicide zoo. Not the best matchups i would say, but still got there. Long story short, tomb of the spirit dragon is the real deal! Got some wins off of it vs all that aggression.
I think Wasteland Strangler is a nice Utility card that is somewhat meta dependant. It shines and is uncontested good vs aggro, and at least provides some pressure vs other decks.
Matter does rely on beeing killed, which is bad since the one killing will be your opponent. In the aggro matchup Strangler will trade 1for2, killing 2 guys while matter will trade 1for2 killing just 1 guy. Straight up worse i guess.
In the control and combo matchup your opponent will just not kill matter as long as possible, so he is almost en par with Strangler.
In the "normal" midrange eldrazi build i dont see a spot for matter right now, i might be mistaken of course ^.^
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The great Eldrazi Overlords will return to the Modern World.
Changing topic i 4-0'd again at my LGS today. Beat 2 burn decks, mill and suicide zoo. Not the best matchups i would say, but still got there. Long story short, tomb of the spirit dragon is the real deal! Got some wins off of it vs all that aggression.
Yeah, idk what magical christmas land y'all are casting your wasteland stranglers in but here in reality I think I've actually 2 for 1ed someone maybe 5-6 times in now 90 plus matches across various variants of our deck. I can see him being better in the mono black version that runs like 6-8 gravehate cards, but you know what? Playing a deck that gives 6-8 ENTIRE slots to main deck graveyard hate to turn on a card that will only sometimes be relevant in a match up is bad. And whoever compared wasteland stangler to freaking LIGHTNING BOLT needs their brain checked because the absolute only thing they have in common is killing up to 3 toughness creatures. Lightning bolt costs 1 mana, and can hit your opponent in the face when it isn't being a format warping removal spell. If you had to pay 3 mana and run gravehate main to use lightning bolt then most decks wouldn't run it.
Yeah, idk what magical christmas land y'all are casting your wasteland stranglers in but here in reality I think I've actually 2 for 1ed someone maybe 5-6 times in now 90 plus matches across various variants of our deck. I can see him being better in the mono black version that runs like 6-8 gravehate cards, but you know what? Playing a deck that gives 6-8 ENTIRE slots to main deck graveyard hate to turn on a card that will only sometimes be relevant in a match up is bad. And whoever compared wasteland stangler to freaking LIGHTNING BOLT needs their brain checked because the absolute only thing they have in common is killing up to 3 toughness creatures. Lightning bolt costs 1 mana, and can hit your opponent in the face when it isn't being a format warping removal spell. If you had to pay 3 mana and run gravehate main to use lightning bolt then most decks wouldn't run it.
My brain is just fine thank you. We can disagree without being disagreeable. Anyways all i'm gonna say is you can keep complaining you lose to aggro while i'll be consistently doing magical christmas land killing my opponent's creatures.
Yeah, idk what magical christmas land y'all are casting your wasteland stranglers in but here in reality I think I've actually 2 for 1ed someone maybe 5-6 times in now 90 plus matches across various variants of our deck. I can see him being better in the mono black version that runs like 6-8 gravehate cards, but you know what? Playing a deck that gives 6-8 ENTIRE slots to main deck graveyard hate to turn on a card that will only sometimes be relevant in a match up is bad. And whoever compared wasteland stangler to freaking LIGHTNING BOLT needs their brain checked because the absolute only thing they have in common is killing up to 3 toughness creatures. Lightning bolt costs 1 mana, and can hit your opponent in the face when it isn't being a format warping removal spell. If you had to pay 3 mana and run gravehate main to use lightning bolt then most decks wouldn't run it.
My brain is just fine thank you. We can disagree without being disagreeable. Anyways all i'm gonna say is you can keep complaining you lose to aggro while i'll be consistently doing magical christmas land killing my opponent's creatures.
I've never once complained I lose to aggro, I said I have sideboard to shore up the aggro matchup. And good luck in magic christmas land then friend, the rest of us will be actually testing instead of talking.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It will be the standard demand as well
Legacy: Dark Depths, Pox, Eldrazi Agro
Vintage: Dark Depths, Grey Orge
Pauper: Faerie Ninja
7pt Highlander: BW Combo
EDH: Horobi, (t)Toshiro, (t)Isamaru
Compared to other sets, this has waaaaaay too much value in the rares and mythics. I haven't seen the box value calculations yet, but I think it's super far over. I expect prices on everything that doesn't pan out to be in a tiered standard deck to drop like a rock.
Feed the Clan, Tectonic Edge, Pithing Needle, Malestrom Pulse, Torpor Orb, Batterskull, Memoricide/Cranial Extraction, Surgical Extraction, Spreading Algee, Ruin Processor, Ratchet Bomb, Choke
And well I knows its annoying when people do this but I could really use help with the whole sideboard thing because I'm fairly inexperienced with them.
4 Wasteland Strangler
4 Blight Herder
4 Oblivion Sower
2 Ulamog, The Ceaseless Hunger
Spells 17
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 All is Dust
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Dismember
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Go for the Throat
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Scrabbling Claws
Lands 23
4 Twilight Mire
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Forest
2 Swamp
Thanks!
I don't agree. I have read numerous posts with people complaining about missing with processors because they can't get and keep enough cards in exile. When I was testing blue I did not have this issue at all. I am currently testing BWC and while I have changed my play to deal with it, I do have to play tighter to keep the exile zone populated.
In general I agree, though if I were to compare them to an established deck I would say that Processor matters decks are more in The Rock style of deck. The accel, control elements (especially attached to creatures), and midrange fatties are really similar to The Rock decks of the past.
As far as splitting up threads, I think that someone should keep in contact with ktkenshin (he usually has a thread about the proposed changes to the line up) and when he is ready to move the deck out of this forum the new thread should be specific to colors that are getting the best numbers. If that is mono-black then this thread can just move, and from that point on it will be more focused. If not then make a thread or move the appropriate existing one. I think it is way too early in this deck's life, and OGW is going to cause a lot of shift and new voices to the archetype threads.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
was considering the switch to green after oath of nissa was spoiled, but I am hard pressed to find a reason other than cantripping and ADecay.
WBGCompany
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
Instants
4 Path to Exile
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Dismember
Artifacts
2 Expedition Map
4 Relic of Progenitus
Lands
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Godless Shrine
2 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Fetid Heath
4 Matter Reshaper
3 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Blight Herder
2 Reality Smasher
3 Oblivion Sower
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Celestial Purge
2 Disenchant
2 Stony Silence
4 Timely Reinforcements
1 Duress
2 Flaying Tendrils
2 Languish
The one thing I need help with is my sideboard. I'm mostly trying to prevent myself from losing to fast aggro decks and blood moon, but man I've basically punted my tron matchup. How are you guys beating tron in Black White colors?
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
I never said Ashiok was bad at enabling processors, I said she doesn't cantrip or hose graveyards, two things that we need just as much if not more than processing.
This is the only reason i would want to go white, Lingering is a stall them plan which I'm not too keen on, Path adds to the mix with its exile.
Legacy: Dark Depths, Pox, Eldrazi Agro
Vintage: Dark Depths, Grey Orge
Pauper: Faerie Ninja
7pt Highlander: BW Combo
EDH: Horobi, (t)Toshiro, (t)Isamaru
Also i can appreciate value but matter reshaper seems like a 2 mana phyrexian rager in our deck most of the time. Not bad, but still i'm not super excited about it or anything...
Legacy: Dark Depths, Pox, Eldrazi Agro
Vintage: Dark Depths, Grey Orge
Pauper: Faerie Ninja
7pt Highlander: BW Combo
EDH: Horobi, (t)Toshiro, (t)Isamaru
Lingering Souls is great at stalling creature decks. No idea what the odds of T3 W are in a build that uses Heaths, but only 8 primary sources makes me nervous.
I cannot beat Tron in BWC. Tron is going to make me change my whole deck/sideboard or make me find a new one, because it is inescapable right now. I have 2 Ghost Quarter main and 2 Surgical Extraction main, thinking about adding 2 of each to the board plus some Maps which right now I don't use.
Getting rid of Strangler for Reshaper will definitely take some pressure off the need to exile cards early and will therefore open up the early game a lot. However this weakens our game vs. GY decks while hopefully strengthening it against some of the tougher match ups like Burn and other removal-intensive builds.
Souls stalls like a mofo. But let's not forget Affinity which Spirit tokens are outstanding against. Infect could be maybe managed with high land destruction and creature removal counts.
Wasteland Strangler is more of a tempo card, and most of the time it's just blocking and getting no value for me anyway. Matter Reshaper is coming down and blocking in the same way that wasteland does, but it's always at a bare bare minumum drawing you a card when it dies, and at best ramping you or replacing itself. It just contributes better to the midrange plan. I also dislike taking potential process targets away from my blight herders with the strangler. With that said, a mix like 3 Matter 1 Wasteland may be correct.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
The way i see it wasteland strangler is this deck's lightning bolt on legs. Most of the time bolt kills something but when it doesn't it goes to the face. Strangler will kill stuff often but when it doesn't it is still a 3/2 for 2, which is just okay.
I don't find it fair to confine strangler as a "tempo" card because like bolt it can take many roles. Sure when strangler doesn't have any target matter reshaper will be better. But i don't find it safe to cut any number of strangler because a lot of the time you need it to survive until your end game.
Also in a lot of the matchups where strangler doesn't shine, your opponent will be ignoring your stuff and do their linear thing. Reshaper has then the chance of just never dying and being just as bad a strangler.
Legacy: Dark Depths, Pox, Eldrazi Agro
Vintage: Dark Depths, Grey Orge
Pauper: Faerie Ninja
7pt Highlander: BW Combo
EDH: Horobi, (t)Toshiro, (t)Isamaru
Well, ur not using Wasteland Strangler and Lingering Souls, so, u will lose ALOT more to aggro ... And u should add some Ghost Quarter to ur main.
There are some cool videos of the BW version on the BW thread, the guy playing make alot of misplays, but u can see the deck running.
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
Matter does rely on beeing killed, which is bad since the one killing will be your opponent. In the aggro matchup Strangler will trade 1for2, killing 2 guys while matter will trade 1for2 killing just 1 guy. Straight up worse i guess.
In the control and combo matchup your opponent will just not kill matter as long as possible, so he is almost en par with Strangler.
In the "normal" midrange eldrazi build i dont see a spot for matter right now, i might be mistaken of course ^.^
Share ur decklist
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
4 endless one
4 wasteland strangler
4 blight herder
4 oblivion sower
2 ulamog, the ceaseless hunger
instants : 4
4 dismember
sorceries : 6
4 inquisition of kozilek
2 thoughtseize
4 relic of progenitus
2 scrabbling claws
2 expedition map
lands : 24
4 eldrazi temple
4 eye of ugin
4 ghost quarter
4 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
2 bojuka bog
6 swamp
4 surgical extraction
2 spellskite
2 duress
2 tomb of the spirit dragon
2 ratchet bomb
1 pithing needle
1 void winnower
1 all is dust
Endless ones also helped a lot by being a big dumb blocker.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
My brain is just fine thank you. We can disagree without being disagreeable. Anyways all i'm gonna say is you can keep complaining you lose to aggro while i'll be consistently doing magical christmas land killing my opponent's creatures.
I've never once complained I lose to aggro, I said I have sideboard to shore up the aggro matchup. And good luck in magic christmas land then friend, the rest of us will be actually testing instead of talking.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon