(Yes boys, we're running 7 Legendary Lands! I want to cut on the Urborb's but I feel letting our Eldrazi lands tap for black is important to get Lilliana out on curve, not to mention Bearer of Silence/Reality Smasher)
(Deck name: Dead Eldrazi Ale?)
I'm not really seeing what this brings to the forefront when it comes to advantages. You remove the graveyard exile and the land ramp package for specific cards that rely on getting out the temples early. If your temples are destroyed by an effect, then you end up being paced slower. Furthermore, this is just midrange where other decks can just play around it.
While I am interested in other variants of the deck, I just do not see the complimentary nature with the increased weaknesses and viability versus other more established archetypes like Jund. I feel this deck wants to sing, but it requires another block involving colorless. Such as a colorless Command and other such spell support. I feel this deck needs one more "block" such as wherever the Emrakul "finish" is complete or another 5-10 years when they decide to revisit the Eldrazi again versus say the current version that preys on graveyard decks which is complete now and further refined with Oath and whatever Emrakul is in.
Even then, this will depend on what we see for the "biological" alterations that Emrakul does and however many years until we see her.
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Life is a beautiful engineer, yet a brutal scientist.
I am no expert with the deck yet, but I think the br version is the strongest one and if your meta is full of agro even more. In my opinion the white deck is better against more midrange and control decks, which are already good MU, while the red one is really good against aggro and combo.
On your last question I think that just 4'relics are not enough, we should cut other cards to include tks.
Overall I like your list and will try it with some minor changes, I was thinking on running one solemn simulacrum but I dont know if it will be awfull or maybe gives enough value, the card helps ramping and I like its role in this type of decks. Are going to run the new kozileks return¿ i like the card but the exile and 3 damage anger does are powerfull in this deck.
When responding to someone specific use the quote button to reply - as is it's really difficult to tell who you're replying to.
This has felt strong so far to me. I'm really loving maindeck Anger of the Gods, makes processor fuel and hits the pesky 3 toughness dudes little zoo is packing these days. My tron match is pretty much impossible game 1, but it gets better with side board. No flying blockers, but enough removal and discard to hopefully make up for it. The mana can be occasionally difficult but I've made the best with what we're working with I think.
Anyone feel like this deck is being split in too many directions? I'm counting 7/8 different builds with no ones being added even today. Does anyone have a solution to this? Can ALL BW talk be taken exclusively to the other thread or is that not a good solution?
I do think ALL of the decks have promise and all have different potentially viable angles, it's just EXTREMELY difficult to have a conversation when people are referencing so many different builds. Some cards being suggested are straight garbage in some shells and all upside/value in others.
I agree that most discussion should take place in their individual threads. I do like coming to this central threads to see what everyone else is thinking about these new Eldrazi as this archetype is far from fleshed out and there are millions of ideas rolling in every day. One thing I can say is for certain, these last couple days of spoilers has confirmed to me that this will be a very strong archetype moving forward. I think it already is one but felt it could also have been just a matter of time before folks really learned to fight against it. Now we are getting what feels like a million more tools that just make the deck even more awkward to fight. I think another key component that works in our favor is the meta has been very Ghost Quarter favored over Tech Edge. This is primarily because of decks like Tron and Bloom Titan which can kill you on 3 lands and early disruption can be key (also GQ being very very cheap is good). I feel like while our deck doesn't like to be GQ'd, we can live through it and still get to our threats on time (because they are setting themselves back usually at the cost of Temple or Eye of Ugin which we can easily overcome). While in magic Christmas land we can also ramp out on 3 lands.. We often have 4 or more and tech edge would hurt more. This deck archetype (and all it's current variants) are very well positioned to take advantage of the meta.
Anyone feel like this deck is being split in too many directions? I'm counting 7/8 different builds with no ones being added even today. Does anyone have a solution to this? Can ALL BW talk be taken exclusively to the other thread or is that not a good solution?
I do think ALL of the decks have promise and all have different potentially viable angles, it's just EXTREMELY difficult to have a conversation when people are referencing so many different builds. Some cards being suggested are straight garbage in some shells and all upside/value in others.
I agree that most discussion should take place in their individual threads. I do like coming to this central threads to see what everyone else is thinking about these new Eldrazi as this archetype is far from fleshed out and there are millions of ideas rolling in every day. One thing I can say is for certain, these last couple days of spoilers has confirmed to me that this will be a very strong archetype moving forward. I think it already is one but felt it could also have been just a matter of time before folks really learned to fight against it. Now we are getting what feels like a million more tools that just make the deck even more awkward to fight. I think another key component that works in our favor is the meta has been very Ghost Quarter favored over Tech Edge. This is primarily because of decks like Tron and Bloom Titan which can kill you on 3 lands and early disruption can be key (also GQ being very very cheap is good). I feel like while our deck doesn't like to be GQ'd, we can live through it and still get to our threats on time (because they are setting themselves back usually at the cost of Temple or Eye of Ugin which we can easily overcome). While in magic Christmas land we can also ramp out on 3 lands.. We often have 4 or more and tech edge would hurt more. This deck archetype (and all it's current variants) are very well positioned to take advantage of the meta.
100% agree with all of this. I think focused discussions should be taking place in individual threads while this deck can continue to serve as a central hub for the archetype. This is all ONLY in the interest of getting people somewhere to dig deeper on individual ideas because MANY of them are very very strong, it's only that when they're all together it's like trying to untangle headphone wires that have been in your pocket.
Well, my thoughts on some cards in regards to the classic mono-black build:
Reality Smasher = Good card to bring in against control or other removal heavy decks, but needs to be used in combination with Cavern of Souls.
Thought-Knot Seer = Card worth experimenting with that fills a role similar to Vendilion Clique. It's a very strong card in mono-B eldrazi thanks to the temples and eyes, plus it exiles a card which can be processed by other critical eldrazi cards in the deck. For those two reasons I could see someone siding out some discard for them, though probably wouldn't drop the endless one count below 2.
Bearer of Silence = A 2/1 flier that can't block, but potentially removes a significant number of threats. Maybe worth 1 or 2 spots in place of wasteland strangler and can let us get early damage in with the flying against some decks.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
This has felt strong so far to me. I'm really loving maindeck Anger of the Gods, makes processor fuel and hits the pesky 3 toughness dudes little zoo is packing these days. My tron match is pretty much impossible game 1, but it gets better with side board. No flying blockers, but enough removal and discard to hopefully make up for it. The mana can be occasionally difficult but I've made the best with what we're working with I think.
Usually they do an update as the new set is released. I think with this particular deck since it's sprung up and exploded only recently... they might wait until there are more tournament results. If it continues to put up good numbers (and I think it will), I am sure it'll be moved up to at least Developing Competitive.
Every Variant is different but in the BW version, most of us are only running a 4 of and no Expedition maps (and I keep bouncing between a 2-2 split and a 3-2 split on Eye and Urborg in the main) and we tend to have no problems. We also have Path and that does make a bit of a difference.
People are just throwing out random builds. Its not like the deck is being pulled in a bunch of directions, people are just buying into the hype of a new set and trying to jam every new card they see. Its pretty clear which ones are unplayable, but that won't stop people from wanting to try "Eldrazi singleton" for a while. Once the set comes out and people can actually test rather than speculate, Im sure the discussion will be more focused. As of now, though, its hardly worth following when every other post is a deck trying to jam every new OGW card or ridiculous discussion about "Can we cut staple card x for random jank y?"
I don't think splitting this thread by color is the right call. To me, the definitive difference between each deck to me is it's operation speed. I think the thread should be split into:
This current thread would become B<>X Control, while the other brews would get their own space. I think this division accounts for the different play styles effectively.
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Blue
You value knowledge, logic, and deceit. You love to pursue wisdom but also to manipulate and deceive. At your best, you are brilliant and progressive. At your worst, you are treacherous and cold. Your symbol is a water droplet. Your enemies are green and red.
Are we still considering Night of Souls' Betrayal a good 1-of for the sideboard? There appears to be a buyout in progress; up to $14 on TCG and well over $20 on eBay.
People are just throwing out random builds. Its not like the deck is being pulled in a bunch of directions, people are just buying into the hype of a new set and trying to jam every new card they see. Its pretty clear which ones are unplayable, but that won't stop people from wanting to try "Eldrazi singleton" for a while. Once the set comes out and people can actually test rather than speculate, Im sure the discussion will be more focused. As of now, though, its hardly worth following when every other post is a deck trying to jam every new OGW card or ridiculous discussion about "Can we cut staple card x for random jank y?"
^^^^^
This
I dont think we should split now, once the deck is established we should, but not now, this is where the ideas are flowing, this is where people comment the most.
Processor Matters decks are not control decks. They are 100% midrange decks. Their goal is to use disruption to get to the mid game and crush the opponent under the weight of their big threats.
Are we still considering Night of Souls' Betrayal a good 1-of for the sideboard? There appears to be a buyout in progress; up to $14 on TCG and well over $20 on eBay.
NoSB is really, really good. The Mono-Black deck should be running likely 2. It is effectively an autowin against Affinity and Infect, both of which are matchups that the Monoblack version needs some help against, and it helps shut down Twin.
Are we still considering Night of Souls' Betrayal a good 1-of for the sideboard? There appears to be a buyout in progress; up to $14 on TCG and well over $20 on eBay.
I think the buyout is more out of the fear of BW Eldrazi and the rising of Abzan again.
Anyone feel like this deck is being split in too many directions? I'm counting 7/8 different builds with no ones being added even today. Does anyone have a solution to this? Can ALL BW talk be taken exclusively to the other thread or is that not a good solution?
I do think ALL of the decks have promise and all have different potentially viable angles, it's just EXTREMELY difficult to have a conversation when people are referencing so many different builds. Some cards being suggested are straight garbage in some shells and all upside/value in others.
Hey here's an idea; what if the regular users attached their build to their sigs. We could even encourage new posters to describe what they are running or brewing.
Since this thread will be the hot one until it is closed, that is the only way I can see to help keep track of who is who. Niall, I know you're on Mono-B because I've been reading your posts for a few days now. But everybody knows my perspective because they can see it on my every post.
Not sure why the resistance--passive or otherwise--to this idea.
Are we still considering Night of Souls' Betrayal a good 1-of for the sideboard? There appears to be a buyout in progress; up to $14 on TCG and well over $20 on eBay.
NoSB is really, really good. The Mono-Black deck should be running likely 2. It is effectively an autowin against Affinity and Infect, both of which are matchups that the Monoblack version needs some help against, and it helps shut down Twin.
Yeah I am pondering picking up a second copy before it is completely sold out because it is hilarious when it unexpectedly comes down against Infect/Twin/Affinity. Still not sure if it's worth running 2 copies though. Wouldn't something like Damnation be better for the mana cost?
Flaying Tendrils can't reliably put cards into exile against many decks. Also, since you replaced some of the exile effects with it, and since it's a 3-drop, I think you will have a hard time triggering Wasteland Strangler on time against the aggressive decks.
For the SB, what is your opinion of sun droplet vs tomb of the spirit dragon? Tomb can be searched via expedition map, though it effectively takes 3 mana per use and requires creatures on the field. Sun droplet is good, but slow to burst damage from burn/merfolk, etc.
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I'm not really seeing what this brings to the forefront when it comes to advantages. You remove the graveyard exile and the land ramp package for specific cards that rely on getting out the temples early. If your temples are destroyed by an effect, then you end up being paced slower. Furthermore, this is just midrange where other decks can just play around it.
While I am interested in other variants of the deck, I just do not see the complimentary nature with the increased weaknesses and viability versus other more established archetypes like Jund. I feel this deck wants to sing, but it requires another block involving colorless. Such as a colorless Command and other such spell support. I feel this deck needs one more "block" such as wherever the Emrakul "finish" is complete or another 5-10 years when they decide to revisit the Eldrazi again versus say the current version that preys on graveyard decks which is complete now and further refined with Oath and whatever Emrakul is in.
Even then, this will depend on what we see for the "biological" alterations that Emrakul does and however many years until we see her.
Modern
Commander
Cube
<a href="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/588020-unpowered-themed-enchantment-an-enchanted-evening">An Enchanted Evening Cube </a>
When responding to someone specific use the quote button to reply - as is it's really difficult to tell who you're replying to.
2 Wasteland Strangler
3 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Blight Herder
3 Reality Smasher
3 Oblivion Sower
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Sorcery
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Anger of the Gods
Instant
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember
1 Slaughter Pact
Artifact
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Expedition Map
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Spellskite
2 Crumble to Dust
2 Duress
1 Pyroclasm
2 Languish
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Dragon's Claw
This has felt strong so far to me. I'm really loving maindeck Anger of the Gods, makes processor fuel and hits the pesky 3 toughness dudes little zoo is packing these days. My tron match is pretty much impossible game 1, but it gets better with side board. No flying blockers, but enough removal and discard to hopefully make up for it. The mana can be occasionally difficult but I've made the best with what we're working with I think.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
I agree that most discussion should take place in their individual threads. I do like coming to this central threads to see what everyone else is thinking about these new Eldrazi as this archetype is far from fleshed out and there are millions of ideas rolling in every day. One thing I can say is for certain, these last couple days of spoilers has confirmed to me that this will be a very strong archetype moving forward. I think it already is one but felt it could also have been just a matter of time before folks really learned to fight against it. Now we are getting what feels like a million more tools that just make the deck even more awkward to fight. I think another key component that works in our favor is the meta has been very Ghost Quarter favored over Tech Edge. This is primarily because of decks like Tron and Bloom Titan which can kill you on 3 lands and early disruption can be key (also GQ being very very cheap is good). I feel like while our deck doesn't like to be GQ'd, we can live through it and still get to our threats on time (because they are setting themselves back usually at the cost of Temple or Eye of Ugin which we can easily overcome). While in magic Christmas land we can also ramp out on 3 lands.. We often have 4 or more and tech edge would hurt more. This deck archetype (and all it's current variants) are very well positioned to take advantage of the meta.
Modern: Eldrazi CB,
100% agree with all of this. I think focused discussions should be taking place in individual threads while this deck can continue to serve as a central hub for the archetype. This is all ONLY in the interest of getting people somewhere to dig deeper on individual ideas because MANY of them are very very strong, it's only that when they're all together it's like trying to untangle headphone wires that have been in your pocket.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pfIg2W7v1nprkM1GcmrQxEgumo3bqvuEwqG9zuIvY7A/pubhtml
Reality Smasher = Good card to bring in against control or other removal heavy decks, but needs to be used in combination with Cavern of Souls.
Thought-Knot Seer = Card worth experimenting with that fills a role similar to Vendilion Clique. It's a very strong card in mono-B eldrazi thanks to the temples and eyes, plus it exiles a card which can be processed by other critical eldrazi cards in the deck. For those two reasons I could see someone siding out some discard for them, though probably wouldn't drop the endless one count below 2.
Bearer of Silence = A 2/1 flier that can't block, but potentially removes a significant number of threats. Maybe worth 1 or 2 spots in place of wasteland strangler and can let us get early damage in with the flying against some decks.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
HI
Your deck is similar to the one that im planning, ¿ are 4xRelic of Progenitus enough ? im thinking to add 2x Thought-Knot Seer instead Scrabbling Claws but im not sure if i will have enoug exile process.
BWC Processors Eldrazi CWB
UBC Emerge EldraziCBU
C Tron Eldrazi C
RBC Meld Eldrazi CBR
GU Tokens Eldrazi UG
Usually they do an update as the new set is released. I think with this particular deck since it's sprung up and exploded only recently... they might wait until there are more tournament results. If it continues to put up good numbers (and I think it will), I am sure it'll be moved up to at least Developing Competitive.
Every Variant is different but in the BW version, most of us are only running a 4 of and no Expedition maps (and I keep bouncing between a 2-2 split and a 3-2 split on Eye and Urborg in the main) and we tend to have no problems. We also have Path and that does make a bit of a difference.
B<>X Control (Processor-matters, Oblivion Sower decks)
B<>X Midrange (Hand disruption, Reality Smasher decks)
R<>X Aggro (Rush-down, Eldrazi Mimic decks)
This current thread would become B<>X Control, while the other brews would get their own space. I think this division accounts for the different play styles effectively.
You value knowledge, logic, and deceit. You love to pursue wisdom but also to manipulate and deceive. At your best, you are brilliant and progressive. At your worst, you are treacherous and cold. Your symbol is a water droplet. Your enemies are green and red.
^^^^^
This
I dont think we should split now, once the deck is established we should, but not now, this is where the ideas are flowing, this is where people comment the most.
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
NoSB is really, really good. The Mono-Black deck should be running likely 2. It is effectively an autowin against Affinity and Infect, both of which are matchups that the Monoblack version needs some help against, and it helps shut down Twin.
If you can't afford them, Curse of Death's Hold is a slightly weaker replacement, and Black Sun's Zenith is a decent inclusion as well.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
I think the buyout is more out of the fear of BW Eldrazi and the rising of Abzan again.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
This is very, very close to the list I plan on testing when OGW is out. Looks really good.
Since this thread will be the hot one until it is closed, that is the only way I can see to help keep track of who is who. Niall, I know you're on Mono-B because I've been reading your posts for a few days now. But everybody knows my perspective because they can see it on my every post.
Not sure why the resistance--passive or otherwise--to this idea.
Dont u guys think Sun Droplet, Dragon's Claw or even Tomb of the Spirit Dragon are better then Ruin Processor ? I really dont like this card ...
Nice deck btw, but I would put this Flaying Tendrils to the side and add a couple of Scrabbling Claws or Nihil Spellbomb.
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx