I know this is not the place but on the next set (SOI), there might be a new set of lands, let's hope for enemy fastlands lol, BW fastland would be bonkers
Think bigger - I hope Emrakul's brood is invading Innistrad.
Does the addition of playable Modern Colorless spells mean a shift from 3 color decks down to 2 color decks + colorless?
If so Filter Lands and Pain lands are now Tri lands. If they keep on making colorless spells in the future I could see the entire modern mana base shift.
Well, thought knot seer is up for pre-sale on TCGplayer for ~ 4.33 usd. Think it's worth it?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Does the addition of playable Modern Colorless spells mean a shift from 3 color decks down to 2 color decks + colorless?
If so Filter Lands and Pain lands are now Tri lands. If they keep on making colorless spells in the future I could see the entire modern mana base shift.
Its just really this deck so far, i wouldnt say the entire modern mana base shift will occur.
Hey guys, it's been about a year and a half since I played modern. I just bought MTGO because it's easier for me to play magic online and this Eldrazi deck looks so much fun. I have two questions:
1. How is this deck generally performing on MTGO against the more established archetypes in modern?
2. I see some of the more popular lists sporting Liliana. I am a bit hesitant in shelling out the cash for her. Is she absolutely required in the B/W variant?
1. For references, you could check pages like mtgtop8 and such http://mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=533&meta=51&f=MO
2. Liliana is not a must play in my opinion. Some decks sport her as a 1/2-off, but its not required.
On another note, could we brainstorm a bit for utility lands for the B<> variant? It seems we have some open slots, since we dont need like 10 swamps here (since we also play 3-4 Urborg). Of course the "mono" B shell will most likely run 4 Ghost Quarter, aside from that Sea-Gate Wreckage looks promising (as a 1-off), but i have been thinking about cards like Thespian's Stage or Vesuva to copy Eldrazi Temples, or maybe Desert to have some more game vs Aggro? Maybe even some lifegain lands like Radiant Fountain or Seraph Sanctuary. If the Fountain would not enter tapped, i'd actually run it as a 3 off right away.... The 1 life from Sanctuary might not be worth anything though, i guess? Desert actually looks somewhat nice vs affinity i guess, also it would force Infect to pump (im playing modern infect for some time now, i know the deck sometimes just wants to get in for 1 and you could deny the slowroll with desert). Thespian Stage looks nice, you can drop it untapped, and whenever you have free mana EOT, you can just copy a temple (or maybe even of a land an opponent controls).
Any thoughts?
From the new set they also got Corrupted Crossroads. Basically a mirror pool that works only for devoid, but given how deep we are delving into devoid anyway it might give some extra color utility. Never thought I'd say the budget pain lands were better than shocks or other kinds for a deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. For references, you could check pages like mtgtop8 and such http://mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=533&meta=51&f=MO
2. Liliana is not a must play in my opinion. Some decks sport her as a 1/2-off, but its not required.
On another note, could we brainstorm a bit for utility lands for the B<> variant? It seems we have some open slots, since we dont need like 10 swamps here (since we also play 3-4 Urborg). Of course the "mono" B shell will most likely run 4 Ghost Quarter, aside from that Sea-Gate Wreckage looks promising (as a 1-off), but i have been thinking about cards like Thespian's Stage or Vesuva to copy Eldrazi Temples, or maybe Desert to have some more game vs Aggro? Maybe even some lifegain lands like Radiant Fountain or Seraph Sanctuary. If the Fountain would not enter tapped, i'd actually run it as a 3 off right away.... The 1 life from Sanctuary might not be worth anything though, i guess? Desert actually looks somewhat nice vs affinity i guess, also it would force Infect to pump (im playing modern infect for some time now, i know the deck sometimes just wants to get in for 1 and you could deny the slowroll with desert). Thespian Stage looks nice, you can drop it untapped, and whenever you have free mana EOT, you can just copy a temple (or maybe even of a land an opponent controls).
Any thoughts?
1. Good Decks Play With Good Cards
2. Good Decks Have Good Plans
3. Good Decks Have Good Mana Bases
4. Good Decks Respect Their Opponents
5. Good Decks Have 75 Cards
6. Sometimes Even Good Decks Are Bad Choices
7. Sometimes Your 'Good Deck' Isn't
1. For references, you could check pages like mtgtop8 and such http://mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=533&meta=51&f=MO
2. Liliana is not a must play in my opinion. Some decks sport her as a 1/2-off, but its not required.
On another note, could we brainstorm a bit for utility lands for the B<> variant? It seems we have some open slots, since we dont need like 10 swamps here (since we also play 3-4 Urborg). Of course the "mono" B shell will most likely run 4 Ghost Quarter, aside from that Sea-Gate Wreckage looks promising (as a 1-off), but i have been thinking about cards like Thespian's Stage or Vesuva to copy Eldrazi Temples, or maybe Desert to have some more game vs Aggro? Maybe even some lifegain lands like Radiant Fountain or Seraph Sanctuary. If the Fountain would not enter tapped, i'd actually run it as a 3 off right away.... The 1 life from Sanctuary might not be worth anything though, i guess? Desert actually looks somewhat nice vs affinity i guess, also it would force Infect to pump (im playing modern infect for some time now, i know the deck sometimes just wants to get in for 1 and you could deny the slowroll with desert). Thespian Stage looks nice, you can drop it untapped, and whenever you have free mana EOT, you can just copy a temple (or maybe even of a land an opponent controls).
Any thoughts?
Seems to me it makes the painlands even better. Time to cash in on Underground Rivers?
I just got a playset of Caves of Koilos - can't hurt.
Cap - that's all fine, I just disagree. I'm not sure how you're always running a full grip of cards with almost no card draw, but it's fine. LOTV seems like a win more card here, not one that shores up any of the actual problems.
Well, things are moving fast! Underground River is definitely getting some value. In Europe, the price is also busy spiking.
Ok I'm thinking out of the box here. What if... we dont play Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth but instead put in duallands or utility cards in that spot? then we could play 4 of Ghost Quarter no problem, we would be able to play our spells on time consistently. And we only need one coloured source for our spells (barring the possible future inclussion of the 1BB sweeper) so the lands we steal with Oblivion Sower doesn't really help us that much in casting our spells in colour anyway, most of them are colourless.
The only thing we give up is the potential ramp of 1 mana IF we already have an Eye of Ugin in play, and that cards is legendary so we can never gain more than 1 mana ramp from it. Comparing that to tron where every piece can be played in multiples and give additional mana if they are combined, Urborg just doesnt offer that much to us compared to consistency and utility land options.
People seem to have giving up on this being a ramp deck and removing expedition map from the deck. Instead focusing on discard and removal - all of which are coloured spells (although black, so this doesnt really matter) - but adding duals (for easier time casting our offcolour spells) or GQ which help against some of our difficult matchups - tron, affinity, infect.
With the exclusion of Urborg we might even dabble with tri-colour variants...
Thoughts?
Terrible idea at first glance. Terrible idea at second glance as well. Urborg fixes our mana, and turns eye of Ugin into one of the most absurd lands in modern, essentially providing us three mana towards our massive threats. I wouldn't try this.
Ok I'm thinking out of the box here. What if... we dont play Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth but instead put in duallands or utility cards in that spot? then we could play 4 of Ghost Quarter no problem, we would be able to play our spells on time consistently. And we only need one coloured source for our spells (barring the possible future inclussion of the 1BB sweeper) so the lands we steal with Oblivion Sower doesn't really help us that much in casting our spells in colour anyway, most of them are colourless.
The only thing we give up is the potential ramp of 1 mana IF we already have an Eye of Ugin in play, and that cards is legendary so we can never gain more than 1 mana ramp from it. Comparing that to tron where every piece can be played in multiples and give additional mana if they are combined, Urborg just doesnt offer that much to us compared to consistency and utility land options.
People seem to have giving up on this being a ramp deck and removing expedition map from the deck. Instead focusing on discard and removal - all of which are coloured spells (although black, so this doesnt really matter) - but adding duals (for easier time casting our offcolour spells) or GQ which help against some of our difficult matchups - tron, affinity, infect.
With the exclusion of Urborg we might even dabble with tri-colour variants...
Thoughts?
Ok I'm thinking out of the box here. What if... we dont play Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth but instead put in duallands or utility cards in that spot? then we could play 4 of Ghost Quarter no problem, we would be able to play our spells on time consistently. And we only need one coloured source for our spells (barring the possible future inclussion of the 1BB sweeper) so the lands we steal with Oblivion Sower doesn't really help us that much in casting our spells in colour anyway, most of them are colourless.
The only thing we give up is the potential ramp of 1 mana IF we already have an Eye of Ugin in play, and that cards is legendary so we can never gain more than 1 mana ramp from it. Comparing that to tron where every piece can be played in multiples and give additional mana if they are combined, Urborg just doesnt offer that much to us compared to consistency and utility land options.
People seem to have giving up on this being a ramp deck and removing expedition map from the deck. Instead focusing on discard and removal - all of which are coloured spells (although black, so this doesnt really matter) - but adding duals (for easier time casting our offcolour spells) or GQ which help against some of our difficult matchups - tron, affinity, infect.
With the exclusion of Urborg we might even dabble with tri-colour variants...
Thoughts?
Terrible idea at first glance. Terrible idea at second glance as well. Urborg fixes our mana, and turns eye of Ugin into one of the most absurd lands in modern, essentially providing us three mana towards our massive threats. I wouldn't try this.
Yep, agreed. This idea is awful. You don't have to be focused on ramp completely but you still want to ramp somewhat and maps do more than just ramp they find specific pieces that allow the deck to function at optimal efficiency. If you want to play 4 GQ (totally reasonable and awesome) play the mono black version, it's worked fantastically.
I don't get this. Could you explain? How does cutting Urborg and going to 4 GQ help cast spells? GQ can tap for colorless either way. But it can't tap black w/o Urborg. Urborg also turns on the stolen enemy fetches that we can't otherwise use. What color variant are you thinking about here? (I wish people would ID their decks, I lose track of who is who.)
It has significantly improved my mana consistency, though it is still not perfect, at 13 B and 10 W instead of 14/12, with only 3 basics. Could cut one more Swamp for +1 Caves of Koilos to go to 13/11 and still have one of each basic. (All this comes at at the cost of weakening the game against Inkmoth/Tron by cutting 1 GQ from my earlier list.) My low basic count also feels pretty marginal in a meta full of Path, Blood Moon, and GQ.
BW is already pretty good against Inkmoth but Tron is everywhere and is so hard to beat without a good dose of luck. 2 more GQ and 2 Crucible of Worlds in the board would help a lot.
How is Mono-B vs. Tron? Vs. Affinity and Infect? Anyone want to post reports on these match ups from either or both perspectives?
Ok I'm thinking out of the box here. What if... we dont play Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth but instead put in duallands or utility cards in that spot? then we could play 4 of Ghost Quarter no problem, we would be able to play our spells on time consistently. And we only need one coloured source for our spells (barring the possible future inclussion of the 1BB sweeper) so the lands we steal with Oblivion Sower doesn't really help us that much in casting our spells in colour anyway, most of them are colourless.
The only thing we give up is the potential ramp of 1 mana IF we already have an Eye of Ugin in play, and that cards is legendary so we can never gain more than 1 mana ramp from it. Comparing that to tron where every piece can be played in multiples and give additional mana if they are combined, Urborg just doesnt offer that much to us compared to consistency and utility land options.
People seem to have giving up on this being a ramp deck and removing expedition map from the deck. Instead focusing on discard and removal - all of which are coloured spells (although black, so this doesnt really matter) - but adding duals (for easier time casting our offcolour spells) or GQ which help against some of our difficult matchups - tron, affinity, infect.
With the exclusion of Urborg we might even dabble with tri-colour variants...
Thoughts?
Terrible idea at first glance. Terrible idea at second glance as well. Urborg fixes our mana, and turns eye of Ugin into one of the most absurd lands in modern, essentially providing us three mana towards our massive threats. I wouldn't try this.
How does it fix your mana? "All" it does is give you one black source - which is all you ever need in this deck. Sure if you have lots of black spells clogged up in hand, it will help you cast all of them in one turn, but that shouldnt happen that often if you strive towards building your manabase so that you can cast your thoughtseizes or inquisitions on turn one anyway )i.e ~14 black soruces) Also it only gives us +1 extra mana, Eye of Ugin provides the other 2 of the combo. Yes its a good synergy, but is it really worth giving up being able to cast your coloured spells or having that extra Ghost quarter?
Are you arguing against yourself here?
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Death to false Value.
GW
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Think bigger - I hope Emrakul's brood is invading Innistrad.
I think it's worth checking into if you run into a lot of Elves, Merfolk, and Zoo or other similar matchups.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Legacy: Dark Depths, Pox, Eldrazi Agro
Vintage: Dark Depths, Grey Orge
Pauper: Faerie Ninja
7pt Highlander: BW Combo
EDH: Horobi, (t)Toshiro, (t)Isamaru
If so Filter Lands and Pain lands are now Tri lands. If they keep on making colorless spells in the future I could see the entire modern mana base shift.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Its just really this deck so far, i wouldnt say the entire modern mana base shift will occur.
Legacy: Dark Depths, Pox, Eldrazi Agro
Vintage: Dark Depths, Grey Orge
Pauper: Faerie Ninja
7pt Highlander: BW Combo
EDH: Horobi, (t)Toshiro, (t)Isamaru
Legacy: Dark Depths, Pox, Eldrazi Agro
Vintage: Dark Depths, Grey Orge
Pauper: Faerie Ninja
7pt Highlander: BW Combo
EDH: Horobi, (t)Toshiro, (t)Isamaru
Legacy: Dark Depths, Pox, Eldrazi Agro
Vintage: Dark Depths, Grey Orge
Pauper: Faerie Ninja
7pt Highlander: BW Combo
EDH: Horobi, (t)Toshiro, (t)Isamaru
1. How is this deck generally performing on MTGO against the more established archetypes in modern?
2. I see some of the more popular lists sporting Liliana. I am a bit hesitant in shelling out the cash for her. Is she absolutely required in the B/W variant?
Thanks guys.
2. Liliana is not a must play in my opinion. Some decks sport her as a 1/2-off, but its not required.
On another note, could we brainstorm a bit for utility lands for the B<> variant? It seems we have some open slots, since we dont need like 10 swamps here (since we also play 3-4 Urborg). Of course the "mono" B shell will most likely run 4 Ghost Quarter, aside from that Sea-Gate Wreckage looks promising (as a 1-off), but i have been thinking about cards like Thespian's Stage or Vesuva to copy Eldrazi Temples, or maybe Desert to have some more game vs Aggro? Maybe even some lifegain lands like Radiant Fountain or Seraph Sanctuary. If the Fountain would not enter tapped, i'd actually run it as a 3 off right away.... The 1 life from Sanctuary might not be worth anything though, i guess? Desert actually looks somewhat nice vs affinity i guess, also it would force Infect to pump (im playing modern infect for some time now, i know the deck sometimes just wants to get in for 1 and you could deny the slowroll with desert). Thespian Stage looks nice, you can drop it untapped, and whenever you have free mana EOT, you can just copy a temple (or maybe even of a land an opponent controls).
Any thoughts?
Yeah, ur right, besides, Rest for the Weary and Timely Reinforcements are just better options agaisnt decks that Ghostly Prison would be good.
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Some utility lands I've used/am considering: Sea Gate Wreckage, Bojuka Bog, Tomb of the Spirit Dragon, Miren, The Moaning Well, Cavern of Souls, Shizo, Death's Storehouse, Shrine of the Forsaken Gods, Thespian's Stage, Vesuva, and Vault of the Archangel in WB.
CB Black Edrazi BC
UW Steelshaper Delver WU
BGR Loam Pox RGB
Standard
BGR Cutthroat Aristocrats RGB
Radiant doesn't enter tapped
Well, things are moving fast! Underground River is definitely getting some value. In Europe, the price is also busy spiking.
http://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/13272
EDIT: they're still cheap, but playsets are getting expensive.
Terrible idea at first glance. Terrible idea at second glance as well. Urborg fixes our mana, and turns eye of Ugin into one of the most absurd lands in modern, essentially providing us three mana towards our massive threats. I wouldn't try this.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
Absolutely not
Yep, agreed. This idea is awful. You don't have to be focused on ramp completely but you still want to ramp somewhat and maps do more than just ramp they find specific pieces that allow the deck to function at optimal efficiency. If you want to play 4 GQ (totally reasonable and awesome) play the mono black version, it's worked fantastically.
Having taken your advice about lands, I now run:
2x Caves of Koilos
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
2x Ghost Quarter
3x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
1x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of the Archangel
BW is already pretty good against Inkmoth but Tron is everywhere and is so hard to beat without a good dose of luck. 2 more GQ and 2 Crucible of Worlds in the board would help a lot.
How is Mono-B vs. Tron? Vs. Affinity and Infect? Anyone want to post reports on these match ups from either or both perspectives?
Are you arguing against yourself here?