As far as I know, colorless is a color of mana too now, so you can generate it with cavern of souls' ability.
This is false. Colorless is not a color of mana. JaceTheMetaSculptor had it correct.
Wait, so does that make Cavern fairly useless in out lists now unless the Eldrazi need colored mana to be cast?
Edit: I'm confused now because on MTGO you can tap it for any color and cast Eldrazi with uncounterable. So are you referring specifically if it can be used for <> and be uncounterable? Because I know you can cast, say, Reality Smasher for 2<> with an Eye in play while adding any color to "generic" with Cavern, another generic source, and a colorless to get uncounterable.
I don't think I've ever had any problems with Elves or merfolk with Bx Eldrazi. In playtesting all I end up doing is running more sweepers like Languish and tides of Sorrow. All my eldrazi that I care about survive these attacks except for Thought-Knot Seer and Wasteland Strangler. Also, elves give my Funeral Charm some easy targets since they are mostly 1 toughness.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I don't think I've ever had any problems with Elves or merfolk with Bx Eldrazi. In playtesting all I end up doing is running more sweepers like Languish and tides of Sorrow. All my eldrazi that I care about survive these attacks except for Thought-Knot Seer and Wasteland Strangler. Also, elves give my Funeral Charm some easy targets since they are mostly 1 toughness.
Right, I guess I just misread the initial comment. The only time I can see it being an issue is with the 3CMC colorless creatures and Eye in play (specifically Reshaper) as you won't be able to make it uncounterable with Cavern. Although I think Reshaper might be the only one thus far.
With Elves, if you have a way of dealing with their T1 and T2 mana dorks or an early board wipe that is probably game. I've not had much experience with Fish aside from testing and TKS seems to shore up that matchup considerably. I wouldn't call it favorable but T1 discard into T2 TKS or discard can be back breaking for them especially if you hit Vial or Seas. They don't have good ways to deal with our creatures unless they run Dismember as Snag and Harbinger not great against us. Their most powerful cards are Vial, Seas and Phantasmal Image if they run it.
Not saying either matchup is that great but I think with some of the new tech coming our way they got much better.
Edit: Don't forget about Wail... I'm not sure where it belongs in the lists but that will help a lot against Elves for the early mana dorks, probably terrible against Fish though.
I've also noticed an improvement in the Merfolk matchup with TKS.
The current problem with the early game against them is Cursecatcher so if they are on the play and drop him turn 1 it is a risk to play TS or IoK. However, if you hit double Temple or Eye and Urborg and TKS there is nothing they can do short of Dismember to get rid of him. If you manage to avoid Seas via discard the matchup really isn't that bad. Vial can get nasty but if they don't have Seas in play then our dudes should at least trade with them if not kill them.
I guess with TKS they could Snag him to draw a card but that seems like an iffy play.
I am going to try this again this weekend, but I am not sure how people are getting such good results with this deck. It just felt so clunky if the opening hand didn't have a Temple, Relic, Strangler/Herder, plus a colored source. It seems to need to mulligan a lot, but it mulligans much worse than Tron.
I think many of you are going entirely the wrong route with these new Eldrazi. Let's not abandon what makes this deck good in the first place. Here is my brief list along with another Tournament report from my local FNM (which had 67 folks this week).
So first things first, I am running a reverse split of Thoughtseize and Inquisitions but that is mainly because I never got a chance to pick the later up before they jumped up to the ridiculous $30 price tag they now have... Also Bloodstained Mire have been my fetches because I really only fetch for Black and when I need an early white source.. I typically get the shock anyway. I am also testing 2 Expedition Maps again and had meh results. It's never been bad but only once been something I liked. We shall see. Oh that brings another thing I'd like to bring up.. This deck is very much a deck that needs to be tuned to your meta. Have lots of Elves, Fish and the like running around? You are going to need Drown in Sorrow like effects in the Main or SB. If you have Affinity and Infect, run all the copies of Lingering Souls you can. Facing Tron? Run 4 MB GQ and 2 MB Surgical extractions as well as things like pithing needles and such in the SB.
Ok onto my thoughts on some of the new cards. I see a lot of folks cutting Blight Herders completely and feel this is a HUGE mistake. He is just an absolute house that allows us to go wide with blocks, ramp out mana or become 7 power over 4 bodies for 3 mana... he is absurd. This is kinda where I am leaning going forward.
So I am really kind of split because Wasteland Strangler is still immense value when you can abuse it properly (and we easily can) but Reshaper does provide a certain automatic value that can be gained from just being there. I'll have to really play with it and see but I think in every matchup where Shaper can trade with something.. Strangler might just be better and so he would be the auto 4 of (because he also trades the same but usually takes a dude out before doing so). I am also unsold on Thought-knot seer. I think it could be a great card against Tron as it gives us more ways to peel apart their hand while beating them in the face. In non magical christmas land though he could come out too late to rip apart combo as effectively as normal discard. I think he takes the 2x Duress spot in my SB and the 2 MB slots go back to normal discard spells. The very first changes I am going to make is replacing 2 Oblivion Sowers with Reality Smashers. I am absolutely in love with Oblivion Sower but I think that Reality Smasher adds a bit more utility to the deck. Essentially I want 4 options if we get to tutor with Eye of Ugin (which doesn't always happen with us also being able to cast Ulamog as well). I want to be able to tutor the 5/8 land stealer, a 4/5 go wide creature for blocks and guranteed ramp, or be able to tutor a 5/5 trample, haster for "3". I can see there being at least a game or two where you can tutor up 5 surprise power and end a game. Your opponent could also think the coast is clear (i.e. you have Herder and his buddies out so they leave back chump blockers.. you can tutor and then sac the 3 scion tokens to give you 5 unexpected trample). I think he also becomes the flex spot for decks you want to bring your Thought-knot Seers in for. I think it's purely a meta call. If you expect more things you want to rip from hand... run the Thought-knot's main.. If you expect creaturish aggro decks, run Reality Smasher main and Thought-Knot in the side. Lastly I have really turned around on Warping Wail. I don't like replacing Go for the Throat in the Main deck (especially if I end up reducing Wasteland Stranglers) but the card does make a lot of matchups easier by just being extra versatile.
Ok... Long post continues (this is just how I roll... very detailed, hope yall like that)... Here are the results out of my FNM. I tend to be riddled with awful luck and I am still going through some pains where I might misplay here or there but generally speaking... Bad luck happens sometimes. Still my final match made my night 100% worthwhile as it was by far one of the dumbest things I have ever done in a competitive tournament and I apologize to my opponent for the ludicrous display. Ok and awaaaaaay we go.
Round 1 Jeskai Token/Aggro (1-1-1)[0-0-1]
Homebrewed list with Monastery Mentors, Young Pyromancer and then typical American goodies. This is probably my 3rd time drawing with this deck and I have come to realize, a lot of it has been my opponents. The first couple times I felt like maybe I tanked too long in game 1 (especially against homebrewish decks) but this one was clearly on my opponent. He snagged game 1 because he ended up resolving a Mentor and I couldn't draw into any gas or removal late (though I think I tutored incorrectly with Eye and should have gotten and played another blight herder so I could vault of the archangel as well but oh well). Next game I seized control and my opponent spent a TON of the game tanking (not long enough to warrant a judge call.. especially at an FNM but long enough that by the time I won the game... there wasn't enough time for another). The main problem I see happening is a lot like what happens when you play Lantern Control against folks. We attack from an odd angle and they don't know their own outs. Because of this they spend a lot of time tanking and unless you play absurdly fast (which confuses them more) you go to time... Oh well. I can let a draw go buy but based on how the 3rd game was going... I easily had it (I was about to chain 3 blight herders together).
Round 2 Zoo (1-2) [0-1-1]
He curves out extremely well in game 1 before I could really get rolling. Absurdly good hand (goblin guide -> burning-tree emissary, Goblin GuideWild Nacatl -> Flinthoof boar with haste). Game 2 I got to do what Strangler does best. His hand started off similar (with Swiftspear instead of the first guide and Burning-Tree Emissary into Nacatl and Goblin Guide turn 2). Turn 3 I pathed the Nacatl and then Strangled the Guide. He was forced to avoid swinging the next turn and that bought me enough time to cast Oblivion Sower -> Blight Herder and start gaining too much life off Vault. Game 3 I kept an iffy hand (2 lands, a Go For the Throat, Damnation and a couple big Eldrazi). I drew the 3rd land off my opening draw but he had the same sequence he had in Game 1 but killed me Turn 3 with an Atarka's Command (and I drew no 4th land or any other removal...).
Round 3 Jund (1-2) [0-2-1]
This matchup legitimately made me angry because it's such a good matchup for us. Game 1 I grinded him out beautifully and it wasn't even close (I think I took 0 damage the entire game). Game 2 I had to mull to 5 because of 2 no-landers.. ended up getting 4 lands and an oblivion sower (2 temples so I was set to rock) and he T1 Thoughtseizes me... because ofcourse and I draw no real gas til he lethals me down with a goyf. Game 3 I had to mull to 5 again. I was much more in this one due to 3 Lingering Souls but in the end I drew 5 lands in a row and he killed me with a Goyf and a Raging Ravine. This matchup was nothing but very bad variance so I'll concede that when I lose to Jund.. this is going to be the way it happens.. All in all I was bad that I got another favorable matchup but couldn't draw into anything.
Round 4 Mono-U Tron (2-0) [1-2-1]
This was the round that made my night and made me happy with the deck once again. I had always heard of Tron being a bad matchup but that's always been referencing RG Tron (and I've seen that bad matchup and know what it is). U Tron doesn't get played as much and I hadn't really heard much about it. Game 1 I won due to some weird variance as well. I started with a T1 Expedition Map. He started with a power plant into his own map. I knew immediately what I needed to do. I play another land and pass. He plays a GQ and at the EOT, I crack my map to get my own GQ. I drew another GQ so I played the one I drew and cast a Lingering Souls. He then cracked his own Map to get another Power Plant (opting for redundancy). He ended up drawing into another Power Plant over the course of the game and I was able to grind him down for the kill. Luckily I didn't draw either Spellskites, nor did he get Tron online to cast Mindslaver. Game 2 is where things got fun. I had opening turn duress with a surgical extraction if I hit something good. He didn't have any payoff in hand 2 tron pieces, a counter and 1 thirst for knowledge. I took the thirst and decided to extract it (I debated holding onto it in case I drew a GQ but decided not to wait and ensure he had as few ways to dig to pieces as possible. Sure enough, I topdecked a GQ (dang) but that allowed me to blow a Tower. He drew into another one which I was able to blow a few turns later. (I was exceedingly low on lands this game because of this but knowing he didn't have a ton of gas and I had a Blight Herder, 2x Oblivion Sower and Newlamog in hand by the time I got to lands.. I felt like I was in good position. So here is the setup for the essentially the decisive turn of the game (I had been using a relic most of the game so he had a sizeable exile pile with 2 Towers in it). I had 4 Mana available to me so I figured I would cast Blight Herder... sac the tokens and tap 1 to cast an Oblivion sower. Then if I hit 2 more lands I could cast the 2nd Oblivion Sower. He had no counters at this point (I had pulled the last one out of his hand the turn before so he had 1 unknown card) so the coast was pretty clear. 1st Oblivion Sower hits Orboro, Power Plant and Mine.. I realize immediately I had just assembled Tron.. Yay Oblivion Sower. I then added up the mana and had 11 available to me.. So I cast the Newlamogg from hand, exiled his 2 remaining tron pieces and passed. He drew a Platinum angel and passed (knowing he had essentially a turn to draw an answer and hope I had none in hand).. I had a path in hand so I revealed and he scooped.
So yeah. It was kind of a fun night because of how it ended. Had variance not been my enemy on the night I think I'd have done fairly well. Anyway that's it for now. I play in Tournaments Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and then occasionally on Saturday or Sunday (but with football in the playoffs I'm very preoccupied with that on the weekends). There is a regional something or other happening on February 6th so I am in full prep mode for that. Should be tons of fun. This deck does feel extremely well placed in the average meta if you can tune around it. I like that it preys on the deck that you are bound to see everywhere (Jund).
I am going to try this again this weekend, but I am not sure how people are getting such good results with this deck. It just felt so clunky if the opening hand didn't have a Temple, Relic, Strangler/Herder, plus a colored source. It seems to need to mulligan a lot, but it mulligans much worse than Tron.
What is your list?
It is pretty much the stock list you see on MTG Goldfish, but with a Conduit and a couple more Maps.
I don't think I've ever had any problems with Elves or merfolk with Bx Eldrazi. In playtesting all I end up doing is running more sweepers like Languish and tides of Sorrow. All my eldrazi that I care about survive these attacks except for Thought-Knot Seer and Wasteland Strangler. Also, elves give my Funeral Charm some easy targets since they are mostly 1 toughness.
Right, I guess I just misread the initial comment. The only time I can see it being an issue is with the 3CMC colorless creatures and Eye in play (specifically Reshaper) as you won't be able to make it uncounterable with Cavern. Although I think Reshaper might be the only one thus far.
With Elves, if you have a way of dealing with their T1 and T2 mana dorks or an early board wipe that is probably game. I've not had much experience with Fish aside from testing and TKS seems to shore up that matchup considerably. I wouldn't call it favorable but T1 discard into T2 TKS or discard can be back breaking for them especially if you hit Vial or Seas. They don't have good ways to deal with our creatures unless they run Dismember as Snag and Harbinger not great against us. Their most powerful cards are Vial, Seas and Phantasmal Image if they run it.
Not saying either matchup is that great but I think with some of the new tech coming our way they got much better.
Edit: Don't forget about Wail... I'm not sure where it belongs in the lists but that will help a lot against Elves for the early mana dorks, probably terrible against Fish though.
I've also noticed an improvement in the Merfolk matchup with TKS.
The current problem with the early game against them is Cursecatcher so if they are on the play and drop him turn 1 it is a risk to play TS or IoK. However, if you hit double Temple or Eye and Urborg and TKS there is nothing they can do short of Dismember to get rid of him. If you manage to avoid Seas via discard the matchup really isn't that bad. Vial can get nasty but if they don't have Seas in play then our dudes should at least trade with them if not kill them.
I guess with TKS they could Snag him to draw a card but that seems like an iffy play.
Don't forget to Ghost Quarter your own land to nuke Spreading Seas, in response if you can so they don't get the draw.
I really think you should test with TKS more; that thing is ridiculous... IMO at least a 3-of in all processor lists. Can single handedly start taking over a game as early as turn 2 plus really shores up the curve nicely. Personally not sure about Smasher, Reshaper, or Strangler as of now. I think Reshaper is overhyped and TKS was underhyped (though that tune is starting to change now). You are probably correct on Wail, but it should be a 2-of in most lists as it can be an amazing top deck but might not be something you really want to see all the time. Testing will tell on that one because it is never a truly dead card.
To those people saying that it is clunky, I agree. Currently the curve isn't great but as I've mentioned TKS fixes that nicely and IMO should be in all lists for that reason alone. You can also make an argument for Mimic since a lot of the time he will be free with Eye in play.
I am going to try this again this weekend, but I am not sure how people are getting such good results with this deck. It just felt so clunky if the opening hand didn't have a Temple, Relic, Strangler/Herder, plus a colored source. It seems to need to mulligan a lot, but it mulligans much worse than Tron.
What is your list?
It is pretty much the stock list you see on MTG Goldfish, but with a Conduit and a couple more Maps.
I am wondering if I want one more exile effect. A Scrabbling Claws or something of the sort.
Your manabase needs some work. You have 12 sources of b mana and 9 of white; you need 14 of b and 12 of white or something near this. Also caves of koilos is a 4x with new eldrazis
I think many of you are going entirely the wrong route with these new Eldrazi. Let's not abandon what makes this deck good in the first place.
I do have to agree with this. After testing my new list out quite a bit, I'm back to the drawing board. The deck definitely doesn't function the same without our classic Sowers and Herders. But putting them back in brings up the issue against aggro and tron once again. I'm wondering if main board sweepers is the way to go, kind of like what tron is doing with pyroclasm in the main.
I don't think I've ever had any problems with Elves or merfolk with Bx Eldrazi. In playtesting all I end up doing is running more sweepers like Languish and tides of Sorrow. All my eldrazi that I care about survive these attacks except for Thought-Knot Seer and Wasteland Strangler. Also, elves give my Funeral Charm some easy targets since they are mostly 1 toughness.
Well, I was shooting in the right direction at least.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Agreed on the fact that we have some meta-dependent slots; I'm only playing online at the moment so I'm trying a build that could face almost every kind of deck. Also my meta has practically every tier 1 and 2 so it seems this is the way for me to go.
I have to say you that thought knot is an all star-creature, I would run no less then 3 copies of it
I can totally see this and might end up running it as a 4-of. I just haven't tested it enough to be certain. I really think our Sideboard is gonna shift a bit to have creatures that allow us to move back and forth. Like against aggro I think Oblivion sowers come out and Reality Smashers come in. I never take out Blight Herders because they either come down as a cheap 4/5 or provide a TON of chump blockers. Against Zoo decks Reality Smasher becomes a creature that they almost always have to 2 for 1 (god forbid they want to kill it with a bolt... then it's 3 for 1) and any extra discard we can make them do will help us in the long run.
I think many of you are going entirely the wrong route with these new Eldrazi. Let's not abandon what makes this deck good in the first place.
I do have to agree with this. After testing my new list out quite a bit, I'm back to the drawing board. The deck definitely doesn't function the same without our classic Sowers and Herders. But putting them back in brings up the issue against aggro and tron once again. I'm wondering if main board sweepers is the way to go, kind of like what tron is doing with pyroclasm in the main.
Maybe you saw that but I personally moved to sweepers main with 2x languish and one in sb. I don't want more than 2 main because I don't want too much dead draws vs some decks
I am currently running a split on sweepers (damnation out of the side because I have one to play.. Languish is definitely better in this deck). All of Dust has been very good whenever I play it but I want no more than 1. I really don't struggle against non-burn aggro really. Lingering Souls really helps with this.
@Everyone For me the biggest cut is the number of Oblivion Sowers. It's a great card but a tad high on the curve for my liking. The more I think about Reshaper.. the less I like it. It doesn't do anything immediately and you are really relying on the card it flips to be valuable. I'd much rather just jam a Strangler for no bonus value than get a random card off the top. I still like Reality Smasher and think it finds a home somewhere along our curve. I think we go something like:
I'm curious to hear what you guys think. What does this deck have over RG Tron? As in, why do we play this deck instead of Tron.
Because this is a MIDRANGE deck. We have a better aggro and creature combo matchup than Tron has. We still grind out games against the grindy midrange decks as well. The question should never be this or Tron. They are not the same. Just because we play big colorless creatures doesn't make us compete with Tron. Our main spot competition is Junk.. which we are better than.
Agreed that Land Destruction hurts Tron a lot harder than Eldrazi.
Land destruction usually denies this deck 2 mana if it's not a ghost quarter, or 1 mana if it is a Ghost Quarter.
(Temple = 2 mana, Eye = 2, Eye + Urborg = 3).
Against Tron, Land Destruction often costs them 4-5 mana (Sowing Salt effect) or 4 mana if it's a Ghost Quarter.
(Tower, Mine, Plant = 7 total, Ghost Quartered = replace a tron land with a forest. Now they have 1,1, G)
A small report, or why I prefer live magic instead of online.
My list is fairly stock (14 creatures, 1 ulamog, 1 spellskite, 25 lands with 1 vault of archangel, 1 bojuka, 1 shambling vent, 1 vault of the archangel; 21 spells: paths, souls, relic, iok x4, thoughtseize x2, Go for the throat, slaughter pact, expedition map x1).
Rd 1 1-0 (2-0) vs Boggles
He takes his deck out of the box facing me and I see a funky foil forest, and start thinking while shuffling. I was almost sure that thing was a from the vault, but I didn't recall basics having that foiling. I chat for a while, pile shuffling and trying to figure it out. It dawns to me that thing is a dryad arbor, and therefore I put him on Boggles or some Bant Knightfall brew. I won the die roll, see him struggle to decide if his hand is good, and mulligan myself. He also does. I keep a urborg, spellskite, relic, fetch, path, relic hand. Scry ulamog to the bottom. Cast discard, see bogles, remove his path. He drops a bogle, i drop spellskite and beat him in a fairly short storied game.
Game two I bring 2x disenchant, 2x surgical extraction, 1x engineered explosives, damnation, all is dust, memoricide. Board out the 6 removal spells, 2x oblivion sower. I considered timely, but he can easily give trample easily. The stranglers can deal with the kor lady if needed.
He sideboards wrongly, bringing in rest in peace, along stony silence and natures claim. I disenchant a stony silence to drop a spellskite to win this one.
I'll edit later for the remainder rounds
Excited to see the rest of your report. Dryad Arbor is pretty standard in Boggles lists as a way to get around an opposing Liliana. They just leave their fetch up in case their opponent tries it and then they fetch up Dryad Arbor and sacrifice that instead. Remember that Dryad Arbor is green so they will have to sacrifice it to All Is Dust if you cast it.
Is Languish really the way to go after OGW? I would think it immediately gets replaced by Flaying Tendrils... Languish can kill TKS and Strangler whereas Tendrils just kills Strangler.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Edit: I'm confused now because on MTGO you can tap it for any color and cast Eldrazi with uncounterable. So are you referring specifically if it can be used for <> and be uncounterable? Because I know you can cast, say, Reality Smasher for 2<> with an Eye in play while adding any color to "generic" with Cavern, another generic source, and a colorless to get uncounterable.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think you mean Drown in Sorrow
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
With Elves, if you have a way of dealing with their T1 and T2 mana dorks or an early board wipe that is probably game. I've not had much experience with Fish aside from testing and TKS seems to shore up that matchup considerably. I wouldn't call it favorable but T1 discard into T2 TKS or discard can be back breaking for them especially if you hit Vial or Seas. They don't have good ways to deal with our creatures unless they run Dismember as Snag and Harbinger not great against us. Their most powerful cards are Vial, Seas and Phantasmal Image if they run it.
Not saying either matchup is that great but I think with some of the new tech coming our way they got much better.
Edit: Don't forget about Wail... I'm not sure where it belongs in the lists but that will help a lot against Elves for the early mana dorks, probably terrible against Fish though.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
I guess with TKS they could Snag him to draw a card but that seems like an iffy play.
Let's start with my current list:
4x Wasteland Strangler
4x Blight Herder
4x Oblivion Sower
2x Spellskite
1x Ulamog, Ceaseless Hunger
Sorcery
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
4x Lingering Souls
1x All is Dust
Artifacts
4x Relic of Progenitus
2x Expedition Map
Instants
4x Path to Exile
2x Go for the Throat
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Vault of the Archangel
2x Eye of Ugin
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Isolated Chapel
2x Godless Shrine
2x Swamp
2x Plains
3x Ghost Quarter
2x Timely Reinforcements
2x Stony Silence
1x Disenchant
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Zealous Persecution
1x Damnation
2x Duress
2x Celestial Purge
So first things first, I am running a reverse split of Thoughtseize and Inquisitions but that is mainly because I never got a chance to pick the later up before they jumped up to the ridiculous $30 price tag they now have... Also Bloodstained Mire have been my fetches because I really only fetch for Black and when I need an early white source.. I typically get the shock anyway. I am also testing 2 Expedition Maps again and had meh results. It's never been bad but only once been something I liked. We shall see. Oh that brings another thing I'd like to bring up.. This deck is very much a deck that needs to be tuned to your meta. Have lots of Elves, Fish and the like running around? You are going to need Drown in Sorrow like effects in the Main or SB. If you have Affinity and Infect, run all the copies of Lingering Souls you can. Facing Tron? Run 4 MB GQ and 2 MB Surgical extractions as well as things like pithing needles and such in the SB.
Ok onto my thoughts on some of the new cards. I see a lot of folks cutting Blight Herders completely and feel this is a HUGE mistake. He is just an absolute house that allows us to go wide with blocks, ramp out mana or become 7 power over 4 bodies for 3 mana... he is absurd. This is kinda where I am leaning going forward.
2x Matter Reshaper
4x Blight Herder
2x Reality Smasher
2x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Oblivion Sower
1x Ulamog, Ceaseless Hunger
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
4x Path to Exile
2x Warping Wail
4x Relic of Progenitus
2x Expedition Map
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Cavern of Souls
3x Godless Shrine
2x Swamp
2x Plains
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Eye of Ugin
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Vault of the Archangel
So I am really kind of split because Wasteland Strangler is still immense value when you can abuse it properly (and we easily can) but Reshaper does provide a certain automatic value that can be gained from just being there. I'll have to really play with it and see but I think in every matchup where Shaper can trade with something.. Strangler might just be better and so he would be the auto 4 of (because he also trades the same but usually takes a dude out before doing so). I am also unsold on Thought-knot seer. I think it could be a great card against Tron as it gives us more ways to peel apart their hand while beating them in the face. In non magical christmas land though he could come out too late to rip apart combo as effectively as normal discard. I think he takes the 2x Duress spot in my SB and the 2 MB slots go back to normal discard spells. The very first changes I am going to make is replacing 2 Oblivion Sowers with Reality Smashers. I am absolutely in love with Oblivion Sower but I think that Reality Smasher adds a bit more utility to the deck. Essentially I want 4 options if we get to tutor with Eye of Ugin (which doesn't always happen with us also being able to cast Ulamog as well). I want to be able to tutor the 5/8 land stealer, a 4/5 go wide creature for blocks and guranteed ramp, or be able to tutor a 5/5 trample, haster for "3". I can see there being at least a game or two where you can tutor up 5 surprise power and end a game. Your opponent could also think the coast is clear (i.e. you have Herder and his buddies out so they leave back chump blockers.. you can tutor and then sac the 3 scion tokens to give you 5 unexpected trample). I think he also becomes the flex spot for decks you want to bring your Thought-knot Seers in for. I think it's purely a meta call. If you expect more things you want to rip from hand... run the Thought-knot's main.. If you expect creaturish aggro decks, run Reality Smasher main and Thought-Knot in the side. Lastly I have really turned around on Warping Wail. I don't like replacing Go for the Throat in the Main deck (especially if I end up reducing Wasteland Stranglers) but the card does make a lot of matchups easier by just being extra versatile.
Ok... Long post continues (this is just how I roll... very detailed, hope yall like that)... Here are the results out of my FNM. I tend to be riddled with awful luck and I am still going through some pains where I might misplay here or there but generally speaking... Bad luck happens sometimes. Still my final match made my night 100% worthwhile as it was by far one of the dumbest things I have ever done in a competitive tournament and I apologize to my opponent for the ludicrous display. Ok and awaaaaaay we go.
Round 1 Jeskai Token/Aggro (1-1-1)[0-0-1]
Homebrewed list with Monastery Mentors, Young Pyromancer and then typical American goodies. This is probably my 3rd time drawing with this deck and I have come to realize, a lot of it has been my opponents. The first couple times I felt like maybe I tanked too long in game 1 (especially against homebrewish decks) but this one was clearly on my opponent. He snagged game 1 because he ended up resolving a Mentor and I couldn't draw into any gas or removal late (though I think I tutored incorrectly with Eye and should have gotten and played another blight herder so I could vault of the archangel as well but oh well). Next game I seized control and my opponent spent a TON of the game tanking (not long enough to warrant a judge call.. especially at an FNM but long enough that by the time I won the game... there wasn't enough time for another). The main problem I see happening is a lot like what happens when you play Lantern Control against folks. We attack from an odd angle and they don't know their own outs. Because of this they spend a lot of time tanking and unless you play absurdly fast (which confuses them more) you go to time... Oh well. I can let a draw go buy but based on how the 3rd game was going... I easily had it (I was about to chain 3 blight herders together).
Round 2 Zoo (1-2) [0-1-1]
He curves out extremely well in game 1 before I could really get rolling. Absurdly good hand (goblin guide -> burning-tree emissary, Goblin Guide Wild Nacatl -> Flinthoof boar with haste). Game 2 I got to do what Strangler does best. His hand started off similar (with Swiftspear instead of the first guide and Burning-Tree Emissary into Nacatl and Goblin Guide turn 2). Turn 3 I pathed the Nacatl and then Strangled the Guide. He was forced to avoid swinging the next turn and that bought me enough time to cast Oblivion Sower -> Blight Herder and start gaining too much life off Vault. Game 3 I kept an iffy hand (2 lands, a Go For the Throat, Damnation and a couple big Eldrazi). I drew the 3rd land off my opening draw but he had the same sequence he had in Game 1 but killed me Turn 3 with an Atarka's Command (and I drew no 4th land or any other removal...).
Round 3 Jund (1-2) [0-2-1]
This matchup legitimately made me angry because it's such a good matchup for us. Game 1 I grinded him out beautifully and it wasn't even close (I think I took 0 damage the entire game). Game 2 I had to mull to 5 because of 2 no-landers.. ended up getting 4 lands and an oblivion sower (2 temples so I was set to rock) and he T1 Thoughtseizes me... because ofcourse and I draw no real gas til he lethals me down with a goyf. Game 3 I had to mull to 5 again. I was much more in this one due to 3 Lingering Souls but in the end I drew 5 lands in a row and he killed me with a Goyf and a Raging Ravine. This matchup was nothing but very bad variance so I'll concede that when I lose to Jund.. this is going to be the way it happens.. All in all I was bad that I got another favorable matchup but couldn't draw into anything.
Round 4 Mono-U Tron (2-0) [1-2-1]
This was the round that made my night and made me happy with the deck once again. I had always heard of Tron being a bad matchup but that's always been referencing RG Tron (and I've seen that bad matchup and know what it is). U Tron doesn't get played as much and I hadn't really heard much about it. Game 1 I won due to some weird variance as well. I started with a T1 Expedition Map. He started with a power plant into his own map. I knew immediately what I needed to do. I play another land and pass. He plays a GQ and at the EOT, I crack my map to get my own GQ. I drew another GQ so I played the one I drew and cast a Lingering Souls. He then cracked his own Map to get another Power Plant (opting for redundancy). He ended up drawing into another Power Plant over the course of the game and I was able to grind him down for the kill. Luckily I didn't draw either Spellskites, nor did he get Tron online to cast Mindslaver. Game 2 is where things got fun. I had opening turn duress with a surgical extraction if I hit something good. He didn't have any payoff in hand 2 tron pieces, a counter and 1 thirst for knowledge. I took the thirst and decided to extract it (I debated holding onto it in case I drew a GQ but decided not to wait and ensure he had as few ways to dig to pieces as possible. Sure enough, I topdecked a GQ (dang) but that allowed me to blow a Tower. He drew into another one which I was able to blow a few turns later. (I was exceedingly low on lands this game because of this but knowing he didn't have a ton of gas and I had a Blight Herder, 2x Oblivion Sower and Newlamog in hand by the time I got to lands.. I felt like I was in good position. So here is the setup for the essentially the decisive turn of the game (I had been using a relic most of the game so he had a sizeable exile pile with 2 Towers in it). I had 4 Mana available to me so I figured I would cast Blight Herder... sac the tokens and tap 1 to cast an Oblivion sower. Then if I hit 2 more lands I could cast the 2nd Oblivion Sower. He had no counters at this point (I had pulled the last one out of his hand the turn before so he had 1 unknown card) so the coast was pretty clear. 1st Oblivion Sower hits Orboro, Power Plant and Mine.. I realize immediately I had just assembled Tron.. Yay Oblivion Sower. I then added up the mana and had 11 available to me.. So I cast the Newlamogg from hand, exiled his 2 remaining tron pieces and passed. He drew a Platinum angel and passed (knowing he had essentially a turn to draw an answer and hope I had none in hand).. I had a path in hand so I revealed and he scooped.
So yeah. It was kind of a fun night because of how it ended. Had variance not been my enemy on the night I think I'd have done fairly well. Anyway that's it for now. I play in Tournaments Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and then occasionally on Saturday or Sunday (but with football in the playoffs I'm very preoccupied with that on the weekends). There is a regional something or other happening on February 6th so I am in full prep mode for that. Should be tons of fun. This deck does feel extremely well placed in the average meta if you can tune around it. I like that it preys on the deck that you are bound to see everywhere (Jund).
It is pretty much the stock list you see on MTG Goldfish, but with a Conduit and a couple more Maps.
4x Blight Herder
4x Oblivion Sower
1x Conduit of Ruin
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
4x Path to Exile
4x Relic of Progenitus
4x Lingering Souls
1x Dismember
3x Expedition Map
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Eye of Ugin
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Marsh Flats
2x Windswept Heath
1x Vault of the Archangel
2x Swamp
2x Plains
2x Godless Shrine
1x Bojuka Bog
I am wondering if I want one more exile effect. A Scrabbling Claws or something of the sort.
To those people saying that it is clunky, I agree. Currently the curve isn't great but as I've mentioned TKS fixes that nicely and IMO should be in all lists for that reason alone. You can also make an argument for Mimic since a lot of the time he will be free with Eye in play.
Just ordered. Thank you!
I do have to agree with this. After testing my new list out quite a bit, I'm back to the drawing board. The deck definitely doesn't function the same without our classic Sowers and Herders. But putting them back in brings up the issue against aggro and tron once again. I'm wondering if main board sweepers is the way to go, kind of like what tron is doing with pyroclasm in the main.
Well, I was shooting in the right direction at least.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I can totally see this and might end up running it as a 4-of. I just haven't tested it enough to be certain. I really think our Sideboard is gonna shift a bit to have creatures that allow us to move back and forth. Like against aggro I think Oblivion sowers come out and Reality Smashers come in. I never take out Blight Herders because they either come down as a cheap 4/5 or provide a TON of chump blockers. Against Zoo decks Reality Smasher becomes a creature that they almost always have to 2 for 1 (god forbid they want to kill it with a bolt... then it's 3 for 1) and any extra discard we can make them do will help us in the long run.
I am currently running a split on sweepers (damnation out of the side because I have one to play.. Languish is definitely better in this deck). All of Dust has been very good whenever I play it but I want no more than 1. I really don't struggle against non-burn aggro really. Lingering Souls really helps with this.
@Everyone For me the biggest cut is the number of Oblivion Sowers. It's a great card but a tad high on the curve for my liking. The more I think about Reshaper.. the less I like it. It doesn't do anything immediately and you are really relying on the card it flips to be valuable. I'd much rather just jam a Strangler for no bonus value than get a random card off the top. I still like Reality Smasher and think it finds a home somewhere along our curve. I think we go something like:
4x Strangler
3-4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Blight Herder
2x Reality Smasher
2x Oblivion Sower
Because this is a MIDRANGE deck. We have a better aggro and creature combo matchup than Tron has. We still grind out games against the grindy midrange decks as well. The question should never be this or Tron. They are not the same. Just because we play big colorless creatures doesn't make us compete with Tron. Our main spot competition is Junk.. which we are better than.
Land destruction usually denies this deck 2 mana if it's not a ghost quarter, or 1 mana if it is a Ghost Quarter.
(Temple = 2 mana, Eye = 2, Eye + Urborg = 3).
Against Tron, Land Destruction often costs them 4-5 mana (Sowing Salt effect) or 4 mana if it's a Ghost Quarter.
(Tower, Mine, Plant = 7 total, Ghost Quartered = replace a tron land with a forest. Now they have 1,1, G)
Excited to see the rest of your report. Dryad Arbor is pretty standard in Boggles lists as a way to get around an opposing Liliana. They just leave their fetch up in case their opponent tries it and then they fetch up Dryad Arbor and sacrifice that instead. Remember that Dryad Arbor is green so they will have to sacrifice it to All Is Dust if you cast it.