Chalice is too slow against burn. Have you guys ever actually played that against them? I have, a lot (played against burn). And I can assure you that if you waste your time/mana on a Chalice at 2 or 4, they will be happy you did. Without Sol lands, Chalice is a bad card vs burn. When treasure cruise was in the format and delver ruled, Chalice on one was gg. I'd rather play the leyline. That shuts of 90% of their deck.
Surgical extraction is quite good against combo decks aswell. Remove their combo piece after being Strangled or Discarded. I get that its normally i sideboard card, but the theme of this deck just asks for it.
The reason this kind of card is bad in the MD of other decks is that it doesn't really do anything for non-combo pieces. You are removing from the grave one thing, and then maybe 3 more that the player may never have actually drawn had you not played the Extraction. Processor decks, on the other hand, use the exiled cards as fuel making the three possibly inconsequential cards valuable.
My only problem has been finding room in the main, but as testing progresses I suspect I will.
The main thing is that Wasteland Strangler could be worth nothing if there isn't any creature on the board or we have nothing in exile, whereas Matter Reshaper gives value even if it dies.
The deck is constructed like an Jund Deck currently and instead of Maelstrom Pulse, we would have Flaying Tendrils to deal with tokens.
Lots of Tokens (4x Blight Herder, 4x Lingering Souls) plus 4x Matter Reshaper and 4x Deceiver of Form bracketing the mid-game curve. Am I crazy or is this nuts? It would require lots of C so an automatic 4-of Caves of Koilos and mandatory GQ as at least a 2-of; with 4 Temples that would be 10 sources for colorless, which is probably not enough.
Needing C for the new cards is going to put a lot of pressure on our mana.
I don't know, it looks like a good list but strangler and souls have both been really good for me, especially against aggro decks like affinity and infect (harder matches for us) while i can see going down on the numbers im hesitant to eliminate the cards entirely. I also want to do more testing w/ the new eldrazi. Im leaning towards thought-knot seer and reality smasher being the big adds but i still think displacer may warrant a 1 of spot. Only testing will tell
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
The main thing is that Wasteland Strangler could be worth nothing if there isn't any creature on the board or we have nothing in exile, whereas Matter Reshaper gives value even if it dies.
This problem with Strangler happens to me all the time. More than I get him to hit, actually.
The main thing is that Wasteland Strangler could be worth nothing if there isn't any creature on the board or we have nothing in exile, whereas Matter Reshaper gives value even if it dies.
This problem with Strangler happens to me all the time. More than I get him to hit, actually.
It happens to me as well, but even despite that I'll continue to run Strangler because when it does hit, it's really rewarding. At least until I see results with the other fella.
Edit: I'm still unconvinced with the new guy. We don't run any sac outlets, so in general it's either just a really small attacker in comparison to the rest of our team, or it's a really mediocre chump blocker. If I were the opponent, I wouldn't bother using my removal spell on it either and use them on the Sowers and Herders instead.
hey everyone, I've been watching and reading this thread for a while now. Having watched this deck demolish Grixis on camera last weekend I've become a huge fan. I traded in my tron deck a while ago (I wasn't happy with it, it really wasn't my style, as a player that enjoys interaction; tron felt like solitaire, it's a great deck, but just not my style).
Which is the best Variant to build? Will Oath change this deck a ton?
Thanks for the input!
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
hey everyone, I've been watching and reading this thread for a while now. Having watched this deck demolish Grixis on camera last weekend I've become a huge fan. I traded in my tron deck a while ago (I wasn't happy with it, it really wasn't my style, as a player that enjoys interaction; tron felt like solitaire, it's a great deck, but just not my style).
Which is the best Variant to build? Will Oath change this deck a ton?
Thanks for the input!
It's definitely too early to call a best build. The deck is still under a ton of testing. Oath will massively change the deck for sure, there's at least 4-5 playable cards coming out. Some builds will stay similar, some will change completely. It's an awesome time where we get to try out a ton of stuff as a new modern deck is established!
Which is the best Variant to build? Will Oath change this deck a ton?
Thanks for the input!
I don't think there is a concensus so far. That said BW, Mono-Black, and BR have put up the most top finishes on MTGO, with a couple of BG decks popping up. My guess is that since the people in this thread are talking about BW because they have chosen to play it, then they are pretty likely to also think it's the best. Not because they are biased, but because most people choose to play what they see as the best deck (within a subset) to play.
I tried out black red for a while, but man I just miss path way too much. Frankly, being probably the best removal spell in modern in addition to having some synergy with our deck makes it a must include to me. I've been working on a mana base that gives me greater consistency, Please take note of the modifications I've made, specifically using painlands and filter lands as tri lands in our deck. My mana has been FAR better in this version of the deck. I have yet to actually have a spell rot in my hand for mana reasons in about 8ish matches.
The one thing I need help with is my sideboard. I'm mostly trying to prevent myself from losing to fast aggro decks and blood moon, but man I've basically punted my tron matchup. How are you guys beating tron in Black White colors?
The main thing is that Wasteland Strangler could be worth nothing if there isn't any creature on the board or we have nothing in exile, whereas Matter Reshaper gives value even if it dies.
This problem with Strangler happens to me all the time. More than I get him to hit, actually.
It happens to me as well, but even despite that I'll continue to run Strangler because when it does hit, it's really rewarding. At least until I see results with the other fella.
Edit: I'm still unconvinced with the new guy. We don't run any sac outlets, so in general it's either just a really small attacker in comparison to the rest of our team, or it's a really mediocre chump blocker. If I were the opponent, I wouldn't bother using my removal spell on it either and use them on the Sowers and Herders instead.
That's e key point, u want your opponent not to use removal on it, thus u can have it attack or block, yes they are saving it for e big fellas but by then you should have already nearly killed them with a 3/2.
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Standard : What is Stand-tart
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
The one thing I need help with is my sideboard. I'm mostly trying to prevent myself from losing to fast aggro decks and blood moon, but man I've basically punted my tron matchup. How are you guys beating tron in Black White colors?
That build looks like a good start, it's similar to what I was thinking of trying out as well. I'll report playtesting results soon enough. I also think it's worth trying out Warping Wail over Dismember/Go for the Throat. Every time I read Wail, I like it even more. As removal, it's able to kill Exarch/Pestermite, Young Pyro, Jace and Delver pre-flip, lots of Affinity stuff, infect guys, Viscera Seer, Spike Feeder when they start the combo, and a lot more. As a counterspell, it stops win cons like Scapeshift and Summer Bloom. Also stops hand attack and even some burn spells. And worst comes to worse, it pops out a blocker or a one-time ramp if you need to desperately ramp. It's so versatile, I love it.
Against Tron, the matchup is definitely an uphill battle. Stony Silence in the side slows them down a lot. Our new faster creatures should help us get there, and forces them to minus karn which makes it much more dealable. But it's like they say, it's not the first Karn or Wurmcoil that kills you. It's the second.
Edit: Aven Mindcensor is also something I'm trying out in the board for tron and other combo decks.
Strangler feels inconsistent to me and I don't like it. One bad matchup for me has been monocolor fast aggro (Merfolk, Elves) where I want him to shine but getting all the pieces in the right places in time for Strangler to matter is too conditional.
RG Tron is an unwinnable nightmare, full stop.
Burn is very hard and I have pretty much ceded G1 each time I've played it; if I miss Rest for the Weary out of the board I'm also unlikely to win G2/3.
Bogles is unwinnable G1 unless I get lucky with my opening discard spell.
So here's what I am thinking I will try with the currently-available tools. I am still wrapping my head around this version of the build and will evaluate new cards based on my success here. This is what I am thinking and I would greatly appreciate feedback from the forum.
The board now has 7 slots for Tron with a GQ/Extraction plan and Stony Silence to stall them. Burn and Bogles are greatly improved G1 with maindeck Spellskite. One mainboard sweeper (though slow) and 3 in the side for fast aggro, with Skite doing blocking duty.
@Deaddrift: I actually think that looks pretty good, I'm a fan of md All is Dust. I really like Strangler and am not sure I want to drop below 3, but maybe I am just getting luckier w/ the order I get my cards in. The way I see it, worst case scenario Strangler is a 3/2 on turn 2 or 3, not amazing, but a good trading body against aggro, and against most other things he comes out anyway. I would also strongly push for 2 Celestial Purge in the SB. It is good against so much of modern and is only going to get better in the future.
Post OGW we're actually going to need lands that can produce colorless to cast our creatures. This makes Blood Moon much better against us. The reason I feel BW is the strongest variation going forward is we are the best grind/midrange of the three top versions and have the best answers to problem matches like Tron and problem cards like Moon.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
The reason this kind of card is bad in the MD of other decks is that it doesn't really do anything for non-combo pieces. You are removing from the grave one thing, and then maybe 3 more that the player may never have actually drawn had you not played the Extraction. Processor decks, on the other hand, use the exiled cards as fuel making the three possibly inconsequential cards valuable.
My only problem has been finding room in the main, but as testing progresses I suspect I will.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
1 Ulamog, The Ceaseless Hunger
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Blight Herder
4 Matter Reshaper
2 Reality Smasher
3 Thought-Knot Seer
Artifacts
4 Relic of Progenitus
Instants
4 Path to Exile
2 Go for The Throat
2 Smother
1 All is Dust
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
1 Flaying Tendrils
Lands
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Ghost Quarters
2 Godless Shrine
1 Isolated Chapel
3 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Caves of Koilos
2 Disenchant
2 Celestial Purge
1 Languish
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Spellskite
3 Rest for the Weary
2 Stony Silence
The main thing is that Wasteland Strangler could be worth nothing if there isn't any creature on the board or we have nothing in exile, whereas Matter Reshaper gives value even if it dies.
The deck is constructed like an Jund Deck currently and instead of Maelstrom Pulse, we would have Flaying Tendrils to deal with tokens.
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
Lots of Tokens (4x Blight Herder, 4x Lingering Souls) plus 4x Matter Reshaper and 4x Deceiver of Form bracketing the mid-game curve. Am I crazy or is this nuts? It would require lots of C so an automatic 4-of Caves of Koilos and mandatory GQ as at least a 2-of; with 4 Temples that would be 10 sources for colorless, which is probably not enough.
Needing C for the new cards is going to put a lot of pressure on our mana.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
T2 reshaper
T3 thought-knot
T4 sower
T5 ulamog
Seems like a pretty common sequence of plays. Sadly this is all really fair. Powerful, but fair.
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
It happens to me as well, but even despite that I'll continue to run Strangler because when it does hit, it's really rewarding. At least until I see results with the other fella.
Edit: I'm still unconvinced with the new guy. We don't run any sac outlets, so in general it's either just a really small attacker in comparison to the rest of our team, or it's a really mediocre chump blocker. If I were the opponent, I wouldn't bother using my removal spell on it either and use them on the Sowers and Herders instead.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Which is the best Variant to build? Will Oath change this deck a ton?
Thanks for the input!
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
It's definitely too early to call a best build. The deck is still under a ton of testing. Oath will massively change the deck for sure, there's at least 4-5 playable cards coming out. Some builds will stay similar, some will change completely. It's an awesome time where we get to try out a ton of stuff as a new modern deck is established!
I don't think there is a concensus so far. That said BW, Mono-Black, and BR have put up the most top finishes on MTGO, with a couple of BG decks popping up. My guess is that since the people in this thread are talking about BW because they have chosen to play it, then they are pretty likely to also think it's the best. Not because they are biased, but because most people choose to play what they see as the best deck (within a subset) to play.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
Instants
4 Path to Exile
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Dismember
Artifacts
2 Expedition Map
4 Relic of Progenitus
Lands
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Godless Shrine
2 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Fetid Heath
4 Matter Reshaper
3 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Blight Herder
2 Reality Smasher
3 Oblivion Sower
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Celestial Purge
2 Disenchant
2 Stony Silence
4 Timely Reinforcements
1 Duress
2 Flaying Tendrils
2 Languish
The one thing I need help with is my sideboard. I'm mostly trying to prevent myself from losing to fast aggro decks and blood moon, but man I've basically punted my tron matchup. How are you guys beating tron in Black White colors?
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
That's e key point, u want your opponent not to use removal on it, thus u can have it attack or block, yes they are saving it for e big fellas but by then you should have already nearly killed them with a 3/2.
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
That build looks like a good start, it's similar to what I was thinking of trying out as well. I'll report playtesting results soon enough. I also think it's worth trying out Warping Wail over Dismember/Go for the Throat. Every time I read Wail, I like it even more. As removal, it's able to kill Exarch/Pestermite, Young Pyro, Jace and Delver pre-flip, lots of Affinity stuff, infect guys, Viscera Seer, Spike Feeder when they start the combo, and a lot more. As a counterspell, it stops win cons like Scapeshift and Summer Bloom. Also stops hand attack and even some burn spells. And worst comes to worse, it pops out a blocker or a one-time ramp if you need to desperately ramp. It's so versatile, I love it.
Against Tron, the matchup is definitely an uphill battle. Stony Silence in the side slows them down a lot. Our new faster creatures should help us get there, and forces them to minus karn which makes it much more dealable. But it's like they say, it's not the first Karn or Wurmcoil that kills you. It's the second.
Edit: Aven Mindcensor is also something I'm trying out in the board for tron and other combo decks.
RG Tron is an unwinnable nightmare, full stop.
Burn is very hard and I have pretty much ceded G1 each time I've played it; if I miss Rest for the Weary out of the board I'm also unlikely to win G2/3.
Bogles is unwinnable G1 unless I get lucky with my opening discard spell.
So here's what I am thinking I will try with the currently-available tools. I am still wrapping my head around this version of the build and will evaluate new cards based on my success here. This is what I am thinking and I would greatly appreciate feedback from the forum.
2x Caves of Koilos
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
2x Ghost Quarter
3x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
1x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of the Archangel
Creature (13)
4x Blight Herder
4x Oblivion Sower
3x Spellskite
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Wasteland Strangler
2x Go for the Throat
4x Path to Exile
1x Surgical Extraction
Sorcery (10)
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
2x Thoughtseize
1x All is Dust
Artifact (6)
4x Relic of Progenitus
2x Scrabbling Claws
2x Damnation
2x Disenchant
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Ghost Quarter
3x Rest for the Weary
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Stony Silence
All right guys, let me have it.
Post OGW we're actually going to need lands that can produce colorless to cast our creatures. This makes Blood Moon much better against us. The reason I feel BW is the strongest variation going forward is we are the best grind/midrange of the three top versions and have the best answers to problem matches like Tron and problem cards like Moon.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"