I think he wants to Blink his Herder to get value out of it. In that case I would play more Displacers and Herders to make that a solid plan. And I would add Vault since Herder + Souls make tons of tokens and with Vault you'll make your opponent think twice about attacking and you can gain a ton of life.
I tried Mind Stone a few times now but I'm not a fan of it. Too often it's a "I do nothing turn 2, go ahead and kill me" and it's not giving me the ramp I expect from it. Also playing 2 doesn't really do much if you rely on Mind Stone to ramp you.
I'm currently playing 4 IoK, 2 TS and 2 CoBr as the discard package. I also added mainboard Surgical, see how that goes. My Living End opponent the other day wasn't too happy about it. I'm also trying Aether Vial with Strangler, Reshaper, Displacer, TKS and Smasher as my creature package and I cut the Relics and Souls from my deck. I don't know yet... not convinced
Personally I think Smasher is better overall than Herder is, but if you're playing two Sorins then Herder might be a better choice because Sorin is amazing with tokens.
Since Displacer only has Strangler and Seer as ETB-effect targets, I would replace those with something else, maybe Reshaper. Matter Reshaper is always good while Displacer dies to Bolt and needs something to do in order to be good. (This is similar to how Herder needs set-up to be good while Smasher is just always good.)
Last I would suggest replacing a couple Dismembers with exile effects like Anguished Unmaking, Oblivion Ring, Journey to Nowhere, or maybe Declaration in Stone or even Surgical Extraction. Herder is much harder to turn on in some matches than Strangler is, since Strangler only needs a single Path or TKS to be live. Some decks will not be filling the graveyard for your Relic, and in some matches you just won't draw a Relic.
I tried Mind Stone a few times now but I'm not a fan of it. Too often it's a "I do nothing turn 2, go ahead and kill me" and it's not giving me the ramp I expect from it. Also playing 2 doesn't really do much if you rely on Mind Stone to ramp you.
I'm currently playing 4 IoK, 2 TS and 2 CoBr as the discard package. I also added mainboard Surgical, see how that goes. My Living End opponent the other day wasn't too happy about it. I'm also trying Aether Vial with Strangler, Reshaper, Displacer, TKS and Smasher as my creature package and I cut the Relics and Souls from my deck. I don't know yet... not convinced
Sounds like you are headed in a pretty different direction with your deck... good luck and let us know how it goes! As far as Mind Stone is concerned, it's true that it isn't an amazing T2 play, but this deck is often looking to use T1/2 to set up to be good on T3+. In that way, the deck 'relies' on either Mind Stone or Temple to set up a T3 Seer, or a Smasher on T3 or T4. And T1 Thoughtseize/IoK (or tapland) --> T2 Mind Stone plus Relic --> T3 Seer or Smasher is a pretty good and not uncommon sequence.
Played a small tourney yesterday with the list I posted above with some minor changes (-1 Surgical Extraction, +1 Ghostly Prison in the sideboard), finishing 5th out of 15 people. Not a great result but all in all I'm kind of happy with it, considering I played 3(!) rounds against Merfolk.
Round 1: Merfolk (2-1)
Game 1 he played lord after lord, to finally hit me for 18 on the 5th turn after drawing a Spreading Seas. Game 2 and 3 I was able to play a sweeper after he got almost empty handed and end the game with Seer and Smasher beats.
Round 2: Merfolk (1-1)
Almost 40 minutes long game 1 because he wasn't able to find any of his Spreading Seas, but we both kept drawing creatures and the moment any of us attacked the other would be dead. In the end I got overwhelmed by 8/8 fishes. Fast game 2 riding a couple of lifelinking, deathtouching Smashers through a Thassa, God of the Sea. In game 3 he got stuck on 1 land and we went to turns, unable to close the game after Ratchet Bombing his 2 Aether Vials, pathing a Spellskite and having 2 Stranglers for a 2-turn clock.
Round 3: Jeskai Control (2-0)
Really onesided game 1, I had 2 Relics that took care of any recursion he tried with his Snapcaster Mages, and a hand full of Lingering Souls that were too much for him after sticking a Sorin. Game 2 I played a Pithing Needle naming his Celestial Colonnade, and that was the only threat he managed to draw all game.
Round 4: Merfolk ...again (0-2)
Game 1 he played a Spreading Seas on T1, T2 and T3, to the point I was so colour screwed I had to Ghost Quarter myself for a white source, but it didn't change much. Game 2 I managed to put up a fight, but he Spell Pierced both of my sweepers and eventually I got overwhelmed.
Merfolk is tough, in my experience. Sounds like you did pretty good all told. Vault of the Archangel is the ultimate board-state parity breaker in a situation like you describe in your second match, but you do have to draw into it. Nice play report, thanks.
I know people tested Westvale Abbey a few months back. Why did it fall out of favor?
We just don't have the 1/1 tokens to consistently flip it, and if you're saccing 3/2 bodies to flip it's not ideal. I had it in my maindeck for a couple months at least, and I think maybe one or two games the flip made the difference. It's just a win-more card unless its a clogged up board (like against jund) and you need the flyer to go over the top. Also, between ghost quarters, cavern of souls, and Black/White lands, there just isn't a slot for a colorless only producing land that doesn't consistently perform.
Here is a recent list that "top 8"-ed a small event - https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/519698
Its interesting to see a Fulminator and 2x new Liliana in the maindeck.
Here is a recent list that "top 8"-ed a small event - https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/519698
Its interesting to see a Fulminator and 2x new Liliana in the maindeck.
It is not surprising to see the new liliana in the deck. It was talked about a few pages ago starting here but nobody has reported on it. I think that it is an amazing fit for our deck but I am waiting until it gets much cheaper to pick a few up.
The more surprising thing, to me, is running 3x blight herder and ZERO discard! I have always been hesitant to cut discard from this deck, but maybe I should give it a try.
It is not surprising to see the new liliana in the deck. It was talked about a few pages ago starting here but nobody has reported on it. I think that it is an amazing fit for our deck but I am waiting until it gets much cheaper to pick a few up.
The more surprising thing, to me, is running 3x blight herder and ZERO discard! I have always been hesitant to cut discard from this deck, but maybe I should give it a try.
What surprises me is the amount of double black on 3 cards in the maindeck with that manabase, as well as sculler with that manabase. It seems way lighter on B/W lands than previous sculler versions I've seen. The discard maybe makes sense when you factor in T2 sculler taking cards away from the opponent. I'm down to 3 discard maindeck myself (with no scullers). It is strange to see 6 5-drops, haven't had many lists with that high of a curve for months now.
I can understand the fulminator in the main, I've felt for a while that my weakest matchups are to decks running tron lands, eldrazi temple, and valakut. Also it can be re-cast through bringing it out of the yard with Lili, which would shut down tron quite a bit. Also 2x thoughtseize in the side rather than main is an interesting take.
What I don't get is the two caverns when running sculler and fulminator, which it can't make uncounterable, in a deck that is stressed for B/W lands. And lastly, no ratchet bomb, EE, or other sweepers before T4 in the side. Is the high curve and lack of sweeper indicative of the meta this deck was played in? Perhaps this deck did well because the tournament had few aggro decks and lots of midrange; I can see this build excelling in that meta.
It is not surprising to see the new liliana in the deck. It was talked about a few pages ago starting here but nobody has reported on it. I think that it is an amazing fit for our deck but I am waiting until it gets much cheaper to pick a few up.
The more surprising thing, to me, is running 3x blight herder and ZERO discard! I have always been hesitant to cut discard from this deck, but maybe I should give it a try.
What surprises me is the amount of double black on 3 cards in the maindeck with that manabase, as well as sculler with that manabase. It seems way lighter on B/W lands than previous sculler versions I've seen. The discard maybe makes sense when you factor in T2 sculler taking cards away from the opponent. I'm down to 3 discard maindeck myself (with no scullers). It is strange to see 6 5-drops, haven't had many lists with that high of a curve for months now.
I can understand the fulminator in the main, I've felt for a while that my weakest matchups are to decks running tron lands, eldrazi temple, and valakut. Also it can be re-cast through bringing it out of the yard with Lili, which would shut down tron quite a bit. Also 2x thoughtseize in the side rather than main is an interesting take.
What I don't get is the two caverns when running sculler and fulminator, which it can't make uncounterable, in a deck that is stressed for B/W lands. And lastly, no ratchet bomb, EE, or other sweepers before T4 in the side. Is the high curve and lack of sweeper indicative of the meta this deck was played in? Perhaps this deck did well because the tournament had few aggro decks and lots of midrange; I can see this build excelling in that meta.
Yeah, I was a bit confused by the mana also. Fetid heath and urborg help a lot, but you still need about 19 B or W sources to make it work. The cavern of souls seems really odd to me with the liliana in the main. However, the fuliminator mage + liliana looks like it makes up for the lack of ghost quarters. I agree that the meta that this deck played against was in was probably aggro-light.
2x thoughtseize in the side sounds more like a vintage (or legacy) sideboard and isn't too odd. I sometimes have additional discard spells in my side if I know I'll be playing against tron or control.
i was running wild wiht teh deck in teh past couple of days.
For now i tweaked my Maindeck, putting in a 2nd copy of collective brutality, a 1-of eternal scourge (tooks down all teh grinds, discards to Brutality) and a 1-of warping wail (another out against blood moon, nice tool against certain combo-decks or at least just exiling a noble hierarch or blighted agent is beautiful ).
Well I've been getting stomped lately by a lot of linear fast aggro strategies, feeling like the deck is not so well positioned right now (like midrange in general). I have a couple slots in the side for Dredge but there is none at my LGS so I will probably up the removal count. I have also been considering dropping the discard for removal instead.
1-3 the last two events I attended, with my sole win last night being a bye. Ugh. Drawing a TON of one-land hands too, for some reason.
Not so sure Warping Wail is too great against Blood Moon, since it only does what we want it to if we have 1C open when they cast the Moon, and then it only buys us one creature. Personally I'd far rather get a Wastes off GQ or Path in such a case. Though of course Wail has other uses that make it attractive as a toolbox choice.
Went to a GPT today and came in second. There were only 17 players; apparently three different game shops in town were having their GPTs on the same day. I called an audible and changed up the sideboard some, which seemed to end up working out OK.
Regarding the SB: I removed Stony Silence altogether, and took out the very bad Declaration in Stone and one Surgical Extraction, since looking around (and recognizing most of the other players, plus a little pre-tourney scouting) revealed that there didn't seem to be any Affinity or Dredge in the room. This gave me room for more targeted removal for all the aggro I expected to face, which I ended up being right about. I went 3-2 in the Swiss for 7th seed and lost in the finals.
vs. UR Prowess/Suicide Bloo: 2-1 (1-0)
Lost G1 to Temur Battle Rage the way you're supposed to do, but in both G2 and G3 Ratchet Bomb proved very effective, dealing with Kiln Fiends and Things in the Ice very nicely. Lots of targeted removal kept him slowed down until I could close out those games at 7 and 5 life, respectively. Bomb was a little slow and Engineered Explosives would have been better in G3, but it ended up being fast enough in the end after I went Smasher --> Smasher to hit him for 15 in the last two turns of the match.
IN: 2x Bomb, 2x Alliance, 1x Unmaking, 1x Throat, 1x Dismember, 1x Sudden Death
OUT: 4x Relic, 2x Mind Stone, 1x Sorin
vs. Death's Shadow/Suicide Zoo: 1-2 (1-1)
In G1, at 6 life, he topdecked a Battle Rage for the win one turn before I could turn the corner, making my chumps useless and leaving a Smasher rotting in my hand. In G2 he was not able to put up any pressure in the face of all my removal and I won at 15 life, but in G3 I kept a bad 6 and lost at 15 life on T3.
IN: 2x Bomb, 2x Alliance, 1x Unmaking, 1x Throat, 1x Dismember, 1x Sudden Death
OUT: 4x Relic, 2x Mind Stone, 1x Sorin
vs. Boros Burn: 2-0 (2-1)
Both G1 and G2 went to me activating my single Vault. Life totals against Burn generally fall to the low single digits before the deck's lifegain can turn the corner and this match was an exemplar of this.
IN: 2x Alliance, 2x Bomb, 1x Throat, 1x Timely, 1x Brutality, 1x Wastes
OUT: 3x Relic, 3x Thoughtseize, 1x Unmaking, 1x Cavern
vs. Grixis Delver: 1-2 (2-2)
I have been having all kinds of trouble with my land balance lately, mulliganing an opening 7 with only one land at least once in more matches than not. The two games I lost here were one in which I flooded hard mid-game. I made the decision to treat this match as an aggro match, and side out the Relics in favor of lots of removal; not sure this was right, but he is doing the work of exiling his yard for me, after all. Anyway the flood was real G1 and 3, which I handily lost. In G3 he was at 4 life for at least 8 or 9 turns while I drew lands. However, in G2 he was not able to apply any pressure at all and I won at 20 life.
IN: 2x Alliance, 2x Bomb, 1x Brutality, 1x Sudden Death, 1x Dismember, 1x Throat
OUT: 4x Relic, 2x Mind Stone, 1x Unmaking
vs. Naya Burn: 2-1 (3-2)
Nowadays I feel the Burn match is definitely on the favorable side for my deck. Even G1 is winnable with a little luck. However this guy's build was a little spell-heavy and creature-light with no Nacatls and lots of maindeck Skullcracks which made it harder for sure. In G1 I kept an opener with removal but no threats, and he was able to win with a perfect Skullcrack on my Smasher backed up by Sorin. However Vault got me there in G2 and Sorin in G3 as I was able to play around his instants.
IN: 2x Alliance, 2x Bomb, 1x Throat, 1x Timely, 1x Brutality, 1x Wastes
OUT: 3x Relic, 3x Thoughtseize, 1x Unmaking, 1x Cavern
I was seeded 7th in the Swiss, meaning I had the draw in rounds 1 and 2 (but not three, where I lost to the 8th seed).
vs. Grixis Delver: 2-1 (4-2)
My opponent from Round 4 of the Swiss flooded hard in G1 and lost quickly without resolving a threat. In G2 both my Brutalitys and both my Alliances proved very effective though I ended up flooding again and losing to Tasigur. In G3 I was able to control his board well with lots of kill spells of all types. I think siding out Relic was OK in the end, but I think maybe Extraction would have been a good substitute for whatever he might decide to target with Snapcaster.
IN: 2x Alliance, 2x Bomb, 1x Brutality, 1x Sudden Death, 1x Dismember, 1x Throat
OUT: 4x Relic, 2x Mind Stone, 1x Unmaking
vs. Naya Burn: 2-1 (5-2)
The same opponent from Round 5 of the Swiss beat me in G1 after I kept a decent but kinda slow hand, and then misplayed by refusing to cast a Strangler because it didn't have processing fodder yet, leaving me without the crucial blocker/target I needed to survive to the next turn. In G2 and 3 lifegain from Sorin, Alliance, Brutality, and/or Vault got me there, though in G3 I was very lucky to see him topdeck two lands in a row while I sweated over my life total of 3. In this match I decided to run my one Extraction instead of the one Relic I had been leaving in earlier, and used it to hit his Bolts (paying B rather than life), which who knows, might have been why I was able to survive those two crucial turns. In general I really don't like Extraction against Burn because of their high redundancy, though I have to say knowing the details of his hand was crucial to playing around his outs in G3.
IN: 2x Alliance, 2x Bomb, 1x Throat, 1x Timely, 1x Brutality, 1x Extraction, 1x Wastes
OUT: 4x Relic, 3x Thoughtseize, 1x Unmaking, 1x Cavern
vs. UW Control: 0-2 (5-3)
I lost quickly to A) a lack of my one-of Cavern of Souls and B) a lack of Stranglers to process his Ancestral Visions. in G1 Gideon Jura on T5 proved too much, and in G2, Secure the Wastes for 8 followed up by Snapcaster/Secure for 6 the next turn was way too much for me, with zero Ratchet Bombs in hand. If I saw this match more frequently, I would definitely run a single Mana Tithe for their X spells. Fortunately, few players have the skill and/or patience to make this build work in the current fast aggro environment.
IN: 2x Bomb, 2x Needle, 1x Brutality, 1x Unmaking, 1x Wastes
OUT: 1x Throat, 1x Sorin, 2x Mind Stone, 1x Vault (I often go to 61 post-board but this time chose to go to 62)
Thoughts:Sudden Death was never relevant since I never drew it, but I could see it being OK. Maybe. Dismember helped me out a couple of times, but I really strongly tend to lean towards spells that will kill a dude regardless of how big it is (e.g., Death's Shadow, Primeval Titan, etc.). I have been running Blessed Alliance for several weeks, but this was the first night it actually lived up to its promise in matches that weren't against Burn. I will keep it as a two-of for now. Not so sure that zero Stony in the board is sustainable in the larger meta, and I also don't feel great about only one Surgical Extraction. There was a GW Tron deck in the room and I felt lucky to dodge it. However, building against loads and loads of aggro was definitely the right decision overall. Starting to see the appeal of the 20 card sideboard, to be honest. Damnation has not been useful for me for some time, and I am starting to wonder about yanking it for more targeted removal instead; it is pretty slow and can be hard to cast on-curve. I guess I need it for Bant Eldrazi, Merfolk, Elves, and stuff like Kiki Chord and Abzan Company though.
Apologies for crappy game reports, but my consistency with recording match details has fallen way off lately for lack of motivation.
The Scion-Token it's just a worst-case "cycle-Mode", whereas Wail transforms into something more relevant than just a 2cmc-Removal.
Eternal Scourge is my new Pet-Card. It's just fine as a 1-of, randomly hosing spot-removal and being a great grind-tool.
As far as i'm concerned my list is tuned for a more agressive Meta. Stony silence is really lackluster nowadays because Affinity is on the decline - the deck just has too many bad Matchups right now.
Warping Wail might be worth a shot, maybe I'll try it where the too-expensive Sudden Death is right now. It would be good against Scapeshift, Search for Tomorrow, and Farseek, too, which would help with a very bad matchup against RG Valakut decks. It might even come in against Tron for Sylvan Scrying or even Ancient Stirrings. It really seems awfully conditional as a removal spell, though; I know I often regret my Brutalities inability to kill lots of stuff I need gone.
Glad you're liking Scourge! I can definitely see that working very well as a one-of. I hope you'll let us know how good it is over the long term, as you continue to play it. One concern I have is that it seems like it would get much worse without the Relics in play, and I frequently like to board those all out for G2/3 in many matches.
Stony Silence is maybe the single best SB hate card in the whole format in how badly it hoses Affinity, but it is also amazing against Gx Tron decks and some other random decks you might encounter from time to time like Thopter Sword builds, Eggs, Cheeri0s, etc. Those decks probably aren't a reason to run it, but Tron and Affinity are still a thing and I'm not sure I would keep my sideboard the same as I listed it above in a larger GP- or Open-size meta.
Wail countered a [card]death cloud[card] today and "stripped" Cards from opponents hands with Prowess-Creatures in play.
Has been fine so far.
Still, sideboarding is awkward sometimes.
Lost against Kiki-Chord today 0-2, just don't know how to beat them in the long run.
Relic seems fine, but my spot removal runs out too soon for preventing teh combo twice.
Won against Suicide Bloo / Kiln Fiend Combo and Death Cloud (teh grind is unloosable i assume).
I've been silently lurking this thread for a while since I'm building BW Processors as a modern side project. Thanks for your insights btw!
What do you think about the Mardu Eldrazi deck from Corbin Hosler?
It basically trades Lingering souls with Kolaghan's command. Of course, it is almost a 4 color deck now... I think, he started from the BR version and added white for Eldrazi Displacer.
I think that the deck has potential, I played a BR version for a while, but he plays too much do-nothings (Talisman is unnecessary) and spells there (Ratchet Bomb and Dreadbore should be in the SB) and not enough creatures imho.
The white splash doesn't seem worth it to me over straight BR imho as it really stretches the manabase. Eldrazi Displacer is good but it doesn't have that many good targets in the deck, PtE is good but can be easily replaced by Terminate.
LURKER HERE - QUESTIONS:
1: How well does the incursion of Ghost Quarters help in the bad MU's of Tron, Valakut, and co?
2: How often do you find opponents failing to find when you Path or Quarter?
3: If there is a reliance on Qhost Quarters in those Matchups, why not Grim Discovery?
4: Across the varied builds here, what would each of you consider being the 'crux card' of the deck? What card wins you the swing matchups and why?
5: With the 'rise' of Infect and Burn, do you think this deck is well positioned in the Meta?
Still vulturing around this build, I really adore it and I think it can go places.
Concerning the stereotypically bad matchups, I feel like Aven Mindcensor and Leonin Arbiter could really help demolish in tandem with both Path and Quarter, and I feel like most of their win-cons are reliant on some form of tutoring.
6: Why then aren't these cards auto-adds?
GLORY TO YOU
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4 Wasteland Strangler
2 Blight Herder
2 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Path to Exile
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Dismember
4 Lingering Souls
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Marsh Flats
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Godless Shrine
2 Shambling Vent
3 Blessed Alliance
3 Lost Legacy
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Collective Brutality
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Endbringer
Thoughts on these choices?
I tried Mind Stone a few times now but I'm not a fan of it. Too often it's a "I do nothing turn 2, go ahead and kill me" and it's not giving me the ramp I expect from it. Also playing 2 doesn't really do much if you rely on Mind Stone to ramp you.
I'm currently playing 4 IoK, 2 TS and 2 CoBr as the discard package. I also added mainboard Surgical, see how that goes. My Living End opponent the other day wasn't too happy about it. I'm also trying Aether Vial with Strangler, Reshaper, Displacer, TKS and Smasher as my creature package and I cut the Relics and Souls from my deck. I don't know yet... not convinced
Since Displacer only has Strangler and Seer as ETB-effect targets, I would replace those with something else, maybe Reshaper. Matter Reshaper is always good while Displacer dies to Bolt and needs something to do in order to be good. (This is similar to how Herder needs set-up to be good while Smasher is just always good.)
Last I would suggest replacing a couple Dismembers with exile effects like Anguished Unmaking, Oblivion Ring, Journey to Nowhere, or maybe Declaration in Stone or even Surgical Extraction. Herder is much harder to turn on in some matches than Strangler is, since Strangler only needs a single Path or TKS to be live. Some decks will not be filling the graveyard for your Relic, and in some matches you just won't draw a Relic.
Sounds like you are headed in a pretty different direction with your deck... good luck and let us know how it goes! As far as Mind Stone is concerned, it's true that it isn't an amazing T2 play, but this deck is often looking to use T1/2 to set up to be good on T3+. In that way, the deck 'relies' on either Mind Stone or Temple to set up a T3 Seer, or a Smasher on T3 or T4. And T1 Thoughtseize/IoK (or tapland) --> T2 Mind Stone plus Relic --> T3 Seer or Smasher is a pretty good and not uncommon sequence.
Merfolk is tough, in my experience. Sounds like you did pretty good all told. Vault of the Archangel is the ultimate board-state parity breaker in a situation like you describe in your second match, but you do have to draw into it. Nice play report, thanks.
We just don't have the 1/1 tokens to consistently flip it, and if you're saccing 3/2 bodies to flip it's not ideal. I had it in my maindeck for a couple months at least, and I think maybe one or two games the flip made the difference. It's just a win-more card unless its a clogged up board (like against jund) and you need the flyer to go over the top. Also, between ghost quarters, cavern of souls, and Black/White lands, there just isn't a slot for a colorless only producing land that doesn't consistently perform.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
Its interesting to see a Fulminator and 2x new Liliana in the maindeck.
It is not surprising to see the new liliana in the deck. It was talked about a few pages ago starting here but nobody has reported on it. I think that it is an amazing fit for our deck but I am waiting until it gets much cheaper to pick a few up.
The more surprising thing, to me, is running 3x blight herder and ZERO discard! I have always been hesitant to cut discard from this deck, but maybe I should give it a try.
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
What surprises me is the amount of double black on 3 cards in the maindeck with that manabase, as well as sculler with that manabase. It seems way lighter on B/W lands than previous sculler versions I've seen. The discard maybe makes sense when you factor in T2 sculler taking cards away from the opponent. I'm down to 3 discard maindeck myself (with no scullers). It is strange to see 6 5-drops, haven't had many lists with that high of a curve for months now.
I can understand the fulminator in the main, I've felt for a while that my weakest matchups are to decks running tron lands, eldrazi temple, and valakut. Also it can be re-cast through bringing it out of the yard with Lili, which would shut down tron quite a bit. Also 2x thoughtseize in the side rather than main is an interesting take.
What I don't get is the two caverns when running sculler and fulminator, which it can't make uncounterable, in a deck that is stressed for B/W lands. And lastly, no ratchet bomb, EE, or other sweepers before T4 in the side. Is the high curve and lack of sweeper indicative of the meta this deck was played in? Perhaps this deck did well because the tournament had few aggro decks and lots of midrange; I can see this build excelling in that meta.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
Yeah, I was a bit confused by the mana also. Fetid heath and urborg help a lot, but you still need about 19 B or W sources to make it work. The cavern of souls seems really odd to me with the liliana in the main. However, the fuliminator mage + liliana looks like it makes up for the lack of ghost quarters. I agree that the meta that this deck played against was in was probably aggro-light.
2x thoughtseize in the side sounds more like a vintage (or legacy) sideboard and isn't too odd. I sometimes have additional discard spells in my side if I know I'll be playing against tron or control.
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
i was running wild wiht teh deck in teh past couple of days.
For now i tweaked my Maindeck, putting in a 2nd copy of collective brutality, a 1-of eternal scourge (tooks down all teh grinds, discards to Brutality) and a 1-of warping wail (another out against blood moon, nice tool against certain combo-decks or at least just exiling a noble hierarch or blighted agent is beautiful ).
Green @ it's best
Changes felt great. Eternal Scourge performed well. 2nd Brutality did it's job.
Green @ it's best
1-3 the last two events I attended, with my sole win last night being a bye. Ugh. Drawing a TON of one-land hands too, for some reason.
Not so sure Warping Wail is too great against Blood Moon, since it only does what we want it to if we have 1C open when they cast the Moon, and then it only buys us one creature. Personally I'd far rather get a Wastes off GQ or Path in such a case. Though of course Wail has other uses that make it attractive as a toolbox choice.
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Marsh Flats
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Godless Shrine
2 Shambling Vent
2 Swamp
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Plains
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Vault of the Archangel
Creature (15)
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Wasteland Strangler
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
Instant (6)
4 Path to Exile
1 Go for the Throat
1 Anguished Unmaking
Artifact (6)
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Mind Stone
Planeswalker (1)
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Go for the Throat
1 Dismember
1 Sudden Death
1 Collective Brutality
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Damnation
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Wastes
vs. UR Prowess/Suicide Bloo: 2-1 (1-0)
Lost G1 to Temur Battle Rage the way you're supposed to do, but in both G2 and G3 Ratchet Bomb proved very effective, dealing with Kiln Fiends and Things in the Ice very nicely. Lots of targeted removal kept him slowed down until I could close out those games at 7 and 5 life, respectively. Bomb was a little slow and Engineered Explosives would have been better in G3, but it ended up being fast enough in the end after I went Smasher --> Smasher to hit him for 15 in the last two turns of the match.
IN: 2x Bomb, 2x Alliance, 1x Unmaking, 1x Throat, 1x Dismember, 1x Sudden Death
OUT: 4x Relic, 2x Mind Stone, 1x Sorin
vs. Death's Shadow/Suicide Zoo: 1-2 (1-1)
In G1, at 6 life, he topdecked a Battle Rage for the win one turn before I could turn the corner, making my chumps useless and leaving a Smasher rotting in my hand. In G2 he was not able to put up any pressure in the face of all my removal and I won at 15 life, but in G3 I kept a bad 6 and lost at 15 life on T3.
IN: 2x Bomb, 2x Alliance, 1x Unmaking, 1x Throat, 1x Dismember, 1x Sudden Death
OUT: 4x Relic, 2x Mind Stone, 1x Sorin
vs. Boros Burn: 2-0 (2-1)
Both G1 and G2 went to me activating my single Vault. Life totals against Burn generally fall to the low single digits before the deck's lifegain can turn the corner and this match was an exemplar of this.
IN: 2x Alliance, 2x Bomb, 1x Throat, 1x Timely, 1x Brutality, 1x Wastes
OUT: 3x Relic, 3x Thoughtseize, 1x Unmaking, 1x Cavern
vs. Grixis Delver: 1-2 (2-2)
I have been having all kinds of trouble with my land balance lately, mulliganing an opening 7 with only one land at least once in more matches than not. The two games I lost here were one in which I flooded hard mid-game. I made the decision to treat this match as an aggro match, and side out the Relics in favor of lots of removal; not sure this was right, but he is doing the work of exiling his yard for me, after all. Anyway the flood was real G1 and 3, which I handily lost. In G3 he was at 4 life for at least 8 or 9 turns while I drew lands. However, in G2 he was not able to apply any pressure at all and I won at 20 life.
IN: 2x Alliance, 2x Bomb, 1x Brutality, 1x Sudden Death, 1x Dismember, 1x Throat
OUT: 4x Relic, 2x Mind Stone, 1x Unmaking
vs. Naya Burn: 2-1 (3-2)
Nowadays I feel the Burn match is definitely on the favorable side for my deck. Even G1 is winnable with a little luck. However this guy's build was a little spell-heavy and creature-light with no Nacatls and lots of maindeck Skullcracks which made it harder for sure. In G1 I kept an opener with removal but no threats, and he was able to win with a perfect Skullcrack on my Smasher backed up by Sorin. However Vault got me there in G2 and Sorin in G3 as I was able to play around his instants.
IN: 2x Alliance, 2x Bomb, 1x Throat, 1x Timely, 1x Brutality, 1x Wastes
OUT: 3x Relic, 3x Thoughtseize, 1x Unmaking, 1x Cavern
I was seeded 7th in the Swiss, meaning I had the draw in rounds 1 and 2 (but not three, where I lost to the 8th seed).
vs. Grixis Delver: 2-1 (4-2)
My opponent from Round 4 of the Swiss flooded hard in G1 and lost quickly without resolving a threat. In G2 both my Brutalitys and both my Alliances proved very effective though I ended up flooding again and losing to Tasigur. In G3 I was able to control his board well with lots of kill spells of all types. I think siding out Relic was OK in the end, but I think maybe Extraction would have been a good substitute for whatever he might decide to target with Snapcaster.
IN: 2x Alliance, 2x Bomb, 1x Brutality, 1x Sudden Death, 1x Dismember, 1x Throat
OUT: 4x Relic, 2x Mind Stone, 1x Unmaking
vs. Naya Burn: 2-1 (5-2)
The same opponent from Round 5 of the Swiss beat me in G1 after I kept a decent but kinda slow hand, and then misplayed by refusing to cast a Strangler because it didn't have processing fodder yet, leaving me without the crucial blocker/target I needed to survive to the next turn. In G2 and 3 lifegain from Sorin, Alliance, Brutality, and/or Vault got me there, though in G3 I was very lucky to see him topdeck two lands in a row while I sweated over my life total of 3. In this match I decided to run my one Extraction instead of the one Relic I had been leaving in earlier, and used it to hit his Bolts (paying B rather than life), which who knows, might have been why I was able to survive those two crucial turns. In general I really don't like Extraction against Burn because of their high redundancy, though I have to say knowing the details of his hand was crucial to playing around his outs in G3.
IN: 2x Alliance, 2x Bomb, 1x Throat, 1x Timely, 1x Brutality, 1x Extraction, 1x Wastes
OUT: 4x Relic, 3x Thoughtseize, 1x Unmaking, 1x Cavern
vs. UW Control: 0-2 (5-3)
I lost quickly to A) a lack of my one-of Cavern of Souls and B) a lack of Stranglers to process his Ancestral Visions. in G1 Gideon Jura on T5 proved too much, and in G2, Secure the Wastes for 8 followed up by Snapcaster/Secure for 6 the next turn was way too much for me, with zero Ratchet Bombs in hand. If I saw this match more frequently, I would definitely run a single Mana Tithe for their X spells. Fortunately, few players have the skill and/or patience to make this build work in the current fast aggro environment.
IN: 2x Bomb, 2x Needle, 1x Brutality, 1x Unmaking, 1x Wastes
OUT: 1x Throat, 1x Sorin, 2x Mind Stone, 1x Vault (I often go to 61 post-board but this time chose to go to 62)
Thoughts: Sudden Death was never relevant since I never drew it, but I could see it being OK. Maybe. Dismember helped me out a couple of times, but I really strongly tend to lean towards spells that will kill a dude regardless of how big it is (e.g., Death's Shadow, Primeval Titan, etc.). I have been running Blessed Alliance for several weeks, but this was the first night it actually lived up to its promise in matches that weren't against Burn. I will keep it as a two-of for now. Not so sure that zero Stony in the board is sustainable in the larger meta, and I also don't feel great about only one Surgical Extraction. There was a GW Tron deck in the room and I felt lucky to dodge it. However, building against loads and loads of aggro was definitely the right decision overall. Starting to see the appeal of the 20 card sideboard, to be honest. Damnation has not been useful for me for some time, and I am starting to wonder about yanking it for more targeted removal instead; it is pretty slow and can be hard to cast on-curve. I guess I need it for Bant Eldrazi, Merfolk, Elves, and stuff like Kiki Chord and Abzan Company though.
Apologies for crappy game reports, but my consistency with recording match details has fallen way off lately for lack of motivation.
Just a short list of examples.
Removes
The Counter-Sorcery Mode is randomly relevant, countering Rift Bolt or a search for tomorrow sometimes.
Even Anger of the Gods is a target sometimes.
The Scion-Token it's just a worst-case "cycle-Mode", whereas Wail transforms into something more relevant than just a 2cmc-Removal.
Eternal Scourge is my new Pet-Card. It's just fine as a 1-of, randomly hosing spot-removal and being a great grind-tool.
As far as i'm concerned my list is tuned for a more agressive Meta.
Stony silence is really lackluster nowadays because Affinity is on the decline - the deck just has too many bad Matchups right now.
Green @ it's best
Glad you're liking Scourge! I can definitely see that working very well as a one-of. I hope you'll let us know how good it is over the long term, as you continue to play it. One concern I have is that it seems like it would get much worse without the Relics in play, and I frequently like to board those all out for G2/3 in many matches.
Stony Silence is maybe the single best SB hate card in the whole format in how badly it hoses Affinity, but it is also amazing against Gx Tron decks and some other random decks you might encounter from time to time like Thopter Sword builds, Eggs, Cheeri0s, etc. Those decks probably aren't a reason to run it, but Tron and Affinity are still a thing and I'm not sure I would keep my sideboard the same as I listed it above in a larger GP- or Open-size meta.
Eternal Scourge proved to be fine as a 1-of. It hoses spot removal and becomes super-great when paired along relic of progenitus.
Wail countered a [card]death cloud[card] today and "stripped" Cards from opponents hands with Prowess-Creatures in play.
Has been fine so far.
Still, sideboarding is awkward sometimes.
Lost against Kiki-Chord today 0-2, just don't know how to beat them in the long run.
Relic seems fine, but my spot removal runs out too soon for preventing teh combo twice.
Won against Suicide Bloo / Kiln Fiend Combo and Death Cloud (teh grind is unloosable i assume).
Green @ it's best
I've been silently lurking this thread for a while since I'm building BW Processors as a modern side project. Thanks for your insights btw!
What do you think about the Mardu Eldrazi deck from Corbin Hosler?
It basically trades Lingering souls with Kolaghan's command. Of course, it is almost a 4 color deck now... I think, he started from the BR version and added white for Eldrazi Displacer.
Also, like in BR, Hangarback Walker over Eternal Scourge and Matter Reshaper seems like a really bad idea to me, it is just a really low impact card (untill very late in the game) and has no synergy with Eldrazi Temple and Relic of Progenitus.
The white splash doesn't seem worth it to me over straight BR imho as it really stretches the manabase.
Eldrazi Displacer is good but it doesn't have that many good targets in the deck, PtE is good but can be easily replaced by Terminate.
I would rather go with a list similar to this:
1: How well does the incursion of Ghost Quarters help in the bad MU's of Tron, Valakut, and co?
2: How often do you find opponents failing to find when you Path or Quarter?
3: If there is a reliance on Qhost Quarters in those Matchups, why not Grim Discovery?
4: Across the varied builds here, what would each of you consider being the 'crux card' of the deck? What card wins you the swing matchups and why?
5: With the 'rise' of Infect and Burn, do you think this deck is well positioned in the Meta?
Still vulturing around this build, I really adore it and I think it can go places.
Concerning the stereotypically bad matchups, I feel like Aven Mindcensor and Leonin Arbiter could really help demolish in tandem with both Path and Quarter, and I feel like most of their win-cons are reliant on some form of tutoring.
6: Why then aren't these cards auto-adds?
GLORY TO YOU